Patiently waiting for Truth

By their works you will know them and we know who the F&DS isn't. Sorry GB you missed the mark.

Poor old Tom. You see @Arauna that Tom is still criticising people. You say it's me with OCD. Please have a word with your friend Tom about it. My point was not about a book as Tom suggests, but about higher education being of help to a person that writes a book and has it published. Keep up @TrueTomHarley And you've written 6 paragraphs to say nothing of importance. Do you ever think spiritually ? Or is it only material things on your mind. @ComfortMyPeople Quote "It seems that the prophecy indicates that there would be TWO groups of worshipers: the PEOPLE, the MANY on one side, and THOSE HAVING INSIGHT on the other. And this second group would help to obtain knowledge to the first one." This brings us back to the 'Ten men clinging to the skirt of a Jew' New International Version Zechariah 8:23 This is what the LORD Almighty says: "In those days ten people from all languages and nations will take firm hold of one Jew by the hem of his robe and say, 'Let us go with you, because we have heard that God is with you.'" And to : Act 2 v 17 'In the last days, God says, I will pour out my Spirit on all people. Your sons and daughters will prophesy, your young men will see visions, your old men will dream dreams. But this means that "THOSE HAVING INSIGHT" MUST be inspired by God's Holy Spirit. Quote These words", which should be understood with the help of "those having insight", refer to such profound thoughts of Daniel's prophecy that even the prophet himself was unable to understand (Daniel 12:8 "I heard, but I did not understand This proves that 'those having insight' will require the inspiration of God's Holy Spirit to understand. The Governing Body of CCJW have admitted to NOT being inspired. Yet they say they are of the Anointed. And they say that they are the faithful and discreet slave. The Leaders of the Bible Students and the CCJW have made many mistakes and probably deliberately told lies. Now even if we put 'everything' down to mistakes, why would God / Christ allow that to happen in Their chosen organisation ? And that is without taking into account the immorality in the CCJW. The lack of love and mercy. The stumbling of many congregants. Unfortunately the CCJW being American it 'allows for' a lot of collateral damage. Where as Jesus spoke of the fine shepherd that would leave his 99 sheep to go and find the lost one. Quote Thus, this last world stewardship seems very necessary, since unifying an international crowd with similar behavior, with similar beliefs, that have a united message, would be impossible without such leadership. And Daniel adds a smaller group that oversees that teaching. Lets look at this. Yes, a true Anointed class that are inspired of God's Holy Spirit, is necessary. The behavior of this 'united crowd' need not be exactly the same at this time. The Earth is a big place. The 'beard' thing is a great example of this. The beliefs of course must be the same, but by choice, not forced. And those beliefs must come from a true Anointed who are inspired by God through Christ. The message must be a true one, and not keep changing. If something is not known, then it should be told as not known. It should not be guessed at. And of course the true Anointed ones would be a much smaller group. In my opinion it was the 'Anointed ones' that Jesus died for. Rev 5 v 9 & 10 And they sing a new song, saying: “You are worthy to take the scroll and open its seals, for you were slaughtered and with your blood you bought people for God out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation, 10 and you made them to be a kingdom and priests to our God, and they are to rule as kings over the earth.”

https://sputniknews.com/uk/202005221079386943-uk-ministry-of-justice-has-open-mind-on-raising-minimum-age-to-18-to-stop-child-marriages/ I thought this article was interesting, particularly as @Arauna seems to say that the world and all it's governments are totally immoral and that all schools and colleges teach immorality etc ......... Here in the UK a politician is trying to have the legal age of marraige raised from 16 to 18, to stop child marraiges. Conservative MP Pauline Latham is seeking to pass a bill which would “revoke parental…consent which permits the marriage…of a child and to criminalise child marriage…under the age of 18.” I just thought it gives a bit of balance to the usual JW cry of 'the world is wicked' 'all non JWs are wicked' etc.... I do like a bit of balance. The article is dated 22nd May and I have no idea of the outcome, but it's nice to read about a politician that is trying to do something positive to held young people.

JWs just look for ways to 'defend' those 8 men that they worship. So, JWs belittle anyone that speaks against the GB. JWs have no balance on this matter. It is all praise the GB, curse the 'enemy'. However in reality even the JWs know how wrong the GB have been and still are on lots of things. I do accept that they are only men and that they are imperfect. And that they are neither inspired or guided by Holy Spirit. They have proved all of those things. So what gives them the right to rule ? What gives them the right to call themselves the F&DS ? I laugh at Tom, when he talks about 'independent elders', because there is no such thing. The independent ones have been disfellowshipped. I think many JWs will be shocked when God/Christ cleans out the CCJW and the true Anointed take over, or start a new organisation.

This is all so funny. A man writes a book which you all know will ruffle feathers in the CCJW and give some people outside the joy of reading it. It frightens you. For one reason you know that a lot of what he has written is true. So, what do you all do ? You look for ways to criticise him. But Tom has to go further of course, he looks for ways to criticise almost everyone. Maybe some of you should do an in depth observation of each member of the GB. You seem happy to find fault with everyone that has different views to you. But you JWs just love to worship your GB.

If you believe this as such is both odd and confusing granted in disagreement with several said core teachings from God's Word (i.e. you had recently judged everyone as guilty without even knowing them, their background, etc. that logic of yours is akin to some Americans think all police officers are guilty, as of recent events, when THAT isn't the case - hence the latter remark is befitting), more so, several verses in some of your other responses to which I made comment to reveals the correctness of what is incorrect by sheer misguidance. That being said, you've now stumble upon your own realm of contradiction which correlates with your other responses. Also regarding the other, is somewhat Restorationist, hence the latter being correct in this sense. @Space Merchant The only bit of the above that I understand is the reference to a White Police officer killing a Black man. But why you felt the need to include that i do not know. So, now give me complete references as to all your accusations against me please. If not, then you are just puffing out hot air.

@Space Merchant I'll admit to knowing nothing at all about Gnostics . I did 'google' it a bit but I find myself in trouble when I believe what I find on google. If what I read is true they seem a rather unpleasant type of people. The makers of 'The Chosen' make it clear that it is not 100% scripturally based. And I don't think it is meant as a Bible study or as a 'true to life' series. I agree that it would be wrong for people to take this series too seriously as 'truth'. Your paragraph comments numbered 1 & 2, I think are rather sad. But as I've said, for my part I was much happier watching The Chosen, than watching most other films available now.

Why MUST some people have a platform to prove themselves! It comes from ego and ambition! Some are never thankful and count their blessings! The glass is half empty if they cannot have a "spiritual " say...... The core teachings are there! So what can you add? Lets look at this statement from @Arauna Why MUST some people have a platform to prove themselves! I don't know, Why does the GB need to have a platform to prove themselves It comes from ego and ambition! Yes JWI has already said this about the GB The glass is half empty if they cannot have a "spiritual " say...... The GB are the only ones ALLOWED to have their spiritual say, and quite often it is wrong. The core teachings are there! So what can you add? The CORE TEACHINGS have always been there in God's written word. @Space Merchant has the core teachings and he is not a JW. The GB did not invent those core teachings. So why can't the GB just stick with those core teachings ? After all, you say what can they add. BUT the GB constantly add things. And the organisation has constantly changed it's teachings, so they obviously didn't get a lot of 'core teachings' right and probably still don't. Would it actually be tooooooo difficult to have KH meetings just to give thanks and praise to God through Christ. Why does the GB & Writing dept, have to dream up rubbish to 'tickle people's ears' ? Isn't the Kingdom message the same now as when the Apostles / disciples went out and preached ? Isn't God's written word enough to use ? The Apostles didn't have all the Greek scriptures. But you and @TrueTomHarley have proved that you don't teach from the Bible, you teach from the GB talk outlines and from the Watchtower... 'Sticking to the outline', Tom said. Proving that your 'faith' is not in God through Christ but in your GB.

Quote @Anna Again, there has to be organizational leadership in order for an organization to function, and there even has to be spiritual leadership, leading by example. But is it right for one man, or group of men, to have exclusive monopoly on the INTERPRETATION of scripture, but more importantly should this group have the right to insist that everyone accepts only their interpretation, and if not, they may be denied membership, or if they are already members it will be counted as "treason" and they will be ex-communicated (in our society we no longer chop peoples heads off) and ordered to live like outcasts, outlaws, banished and shunned by the whole community as they know it, including relatives. It sounds to me like something from my movie. Is this the model Jesus had in mind? I repeat, as a group, the GB are untouchable because they have enough support from "subjects". Remove that support and they are "nothing". But didn't Jesus say we should support one another, and come to the aid of our brothers? Can we examine this paragraph please. 1. Organisational leadership. Over practical things yes. 2. Spiritual leadership. This can only be done by those who are guided directly by God, through Christ, through Holy spirit. It creates a problem when men decide for themselves that THEY are God's spokespersons. 3. Monopoly on interpretation of scripture. The problem seems to have been that 'men' have given false interpretations. And those 'men' have made themselves false prophets. 4. Their interpretation. To me this is a dictatorship. And if you add the fact that 'their interpretation' of scripture will differ to suit their own needs, then it becomes an insult to God and Christ. 5. Treason / D/fed. To my mind this confirms the dictatorship. Wrongful use of excommunicating 6. Live like Outcasts / Shunned by all JWs. This is one reason I think JWs should be issued with a 'Rule book' which they should be allowed to read BEFORE getting baptised. As a person that is 'suffering' such I would like to read it in the rules to see what it actually says, and to see what scriptures it is based on. 7. Is this the model Jesus had in mind ? Having the 'mind of Christ'. This is where I mention time and time again, about lack of spirituality. 8. the GB are untouchable because they have enough support from "subjects" Wrong, It is not support it is fear. Just look at what you have mentioned above, it proves fear. It reminds me of the German Army. I don't think those men wanted to kill so many people, but they were frightened not to. To some outsiders it would look as if they were supporting Hitler, but in reality the soldiers were frightened of him. So it is with the GB, they may look to be supported, but the brothers and sisters live in fear of being disfellowshipped which is like death to them. 9. Remove that support and they are "nothing. I've been saying this for a long time. If congregants stopped their donations completely, and stopped attending KH meetings, then the GB 'might' start to have a re-think. Doubtful though as their hearts seem to have hardened against their own people, just like the Jewish religious leaders. 10. Come to the aid of our brothers. The GB have stopped acting like brothers. They have exalted themselves above all of God's servants. Congregants are now frightened of the Elders and more so of the GB. The GB have made up 'rules of men' and 'traditions of men'. 11. But didn't Jesus say we should support one another, Re-read your paragraph. Do you see any support from the GB ? Or do you see heavy loads put on congregants shoulders and the GB not lifting one finger to help ? There are Anointed ones Earthwide. Almighty God will use them when HE is ready to use them. Either the CCJW will be cleansed and re-organised, or, God, through Christ,will form another organisation.

The Chosen isn't supposed to be correct to scripture. But you know that anyway. I wonder if this is just yet another dig at me. Such a shame. It is about the lives of the Jewish people at that time. I've watched the first Series and I think it is very good. I don't want to watch Jesus being killed, i want to watch Jesus when He lived. And to see his disciples and how they interacted. It is totally way off from the Bible. But well worth viewing. Why ? Because whilst you are watching it your mind is concentrating on Jesus, His disciples, the Jewish way of life, the 'nasty' Romans, and the general feel of what it would have been like. It's a shame some folks have to dissect it. I get the sense that such ones must be rather unhappy in their lives.

Well certain people on here only believe their own viewpoint on scripture.. So it is a waste of time trying to debate sensibly with them. The funny thing is with some people that if you don't fully agree with their viewpoint, they tell everyone that you have made a mistake. Um, could it not possibly be them that has made a mistake ? Oh no, well not with a certain man anyway. He thinks he is always right. Then he expects others to admit a mistake which they haven't actually made. I tend to go quiet sometimes for two reason. 1. I start to think deeper about a subject. 2. I don't want to waste my time arguing, as arguing is so negative. But that man tends to harp on and on when a person does not reply to him. I think he feels hurt. He seems to demand a reply, which makes me laugh at him. He is so full of his own self importance. I can understand why he would 'defend' the Governing Body of CCJW. They both always think they are right.

I presume you have every paper copy of every magazine from 1966 through 1975, to prove your point. Other wise you have no proof. That one article proves nothing. The CCJW back track all the time.

I suppose you think RJ Furuli Ph D, has OCD as well And what about JWI when he mentions problems in the CCJW. Has he got OCD ? You say this about me " the response is always the same old, same old. " But your response is always 'OCD'. Same old same old.

Quote ' The thing to "note" is, when did higher education "guarantee" success? ' BUT the GB quite happily use Lawyers in many court cases. They would have had higher education. And i would imagine that many of the 'top brass' in HQ / Bethel had more than a basic education. Who did the planning for that massive building project at Warwick ? But TTH rabbits on and so does Aurana, both totally unbalanced on the subject. It is a matter of balance.

Thank you @JW Insider This gets better every minute. A complete lack of spirituality shown in both instances. But @Space Merchant might question the use of the large visual aid with the number of months left to 1975. He seems to think that JW Org didn't 'predict' it as Armageddon. 39 minutes ago, Matthew9969 said: I think if you guys want to see changes, it would take several million signatures from all countries you are located in, or a massive letter writing campaign like you did with Russia. I think it would take all congregants to leave the CCJW completely and certainly to stop all contributions. But I think all congregants (once lock down has ended) should stop attending Kingdom Hall meetings. They would do better for themselves to pray directly to God through Christ to ask for the CCJW to be completely cleansed and for a true Anointed to be set in place to act as Servants to the Org, not dictators of it. Perhaps God is waiting for such things to happen. Perhaps God wants to see the seriousness and wholehearted dedication from HIS people. I would imagine what God can see right now is the congregants 'turning a blind eye' to many sins within the CCJW and just using it as a social club.

Because no one can call the members of the GB toaccount, they have been able to lead the organization in the direction oftheir choice-they have formed the organization into their own image.The present organizational structure, where the members of the GBbelieve that they have both the obligation and the right to be a governmentfor Jehovah's Witnesses, has created great problems. Mr Rook and I have said such things so many times.

One thing i do find very funny on here and in the CCJW is this. Everyone seems to say 'Read the Bible' 'Study God's Word' 'Pray for Holy Spirit' BUT when a person does those things and comes to an understanding of scripture, oh dear, they must be wrong because they don't agree with YOU ! @Arauna I agree with your latest comment. One reason being that I truly believe the Greek Scriptures are meant for the true Anointed to understand, not the 'domestic' Earthly class. Just look on this forum how many different opinions there are. My opinion is no better or worse that any other. One man on here says he 'studies religions', but is that what God really requires of us ? How long would it take us to study all religions ? Just one little point. The GB 'inspired' Elders have regularly told congregants to 'Leave it with Jehovah' when congregants have been wronged, even to the point of CSA. But when the GB / CCJW / W/t are wronged they get their Lawyers to fight it all the way. So why can't they just 'Leave it with Jehovah' ? Is it all about the money ? Well this example of the GB and their lawyers will probably 'inspire' more CSA victims to fight it all the way. After all it seems that the GB and you people are only interested in people's 'rights according to law'.

I'll just repeat this as Space Merchant is going on so much. Matthew 5 v 38 through 42 “You heard that it was said: ‘Eye for eye and tooth for tooth.’ 39 However, I say to you: Do not resist the one who is wicked, but whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other also to him. 40 And if a person wants to take you to court and get possession of your inner garment, let him also have your outer garment;c 41 and if someone in authority compels you into service for a mile, go with him two miles. 42 Give to the one asking you, and do not turn away from one who wants to borrow from you. The GB and their Lawyers do not understand the spiritual things from God. It also seems they are ashamed of their own videos. And it seems that a lot of people here do not understand the spiritual things from God or Bible principles. But of course the GB need the money now, donations are probably going down and court case costs are probably going up.

TTH rabbits on worse that a squawking parrot. The Org does this the Org does that. Give it a rest Tom. Here in the UK we have 'Food Banks' making up food parcels and distributing to households. There is even a teacher that makes up 'school meal' parcels and delivers them to pupils homes. None of those people are JWs. There are probably millions of 'humanists' earthwide and here in UK https://humanism.org.uk/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rolf_Furuli?fbclid=IwAR1hVDMbNLhaYsVijFkSQinHVUTf8N9iSM0LgwjSXiz-jIwqTM2ZDfq-nno I think his Wiki page showing his previous works gives enough evidence of his use of higher education and the first red.it link gives a clue as to content of this book. But Tom only quote half and then avoids the true point of it all as usual. @Ann O'Maly "The “faithful and discreet slave” refers to any Christian who isfaithful and on the watch when Jesus comes as the judge in thegreat tribulation. It does not refer to a class that gives spiritualfood during Christ’s presence." - p. 72. I think I'd go with what God's word says on this one.... Matthew 24 v 45 “Who really is the faithful and discreet slave whom his master appointed over his domestics, to give them their food at the proper time? I love your choice of words here. Quote " what 'apostates' have banged on about for decades. " I think the truth is, that it is nice to have different viewpoints.

@Ann O'Maly This is wonderful news. Music to my ears. I think @James Thomas Rook Jr. would love this too. It would be so funny if this book says things that i have been saying on here for a long time. Quote "There was no governing body in the first century CE. Therefore, the present Governing Body has no legacy and should be dissolved." - p. 135. I love this. But if I say to much i will be D/fed from this forum, as John Butler was. Even that word 'dissolved' might pose a threat. Quote, " he blasts the current GB for losing their way, being power- and money-grabbing, amongst other complaints, and he scripturally dismantles the FDS doctrine. " Mr Rook said similar things and so have I. Is this only available as an e-book ? Is it or will it be available in 'real paper copy' ? @TrueTomHarley Could be the start of something big Tom ? And before you say it, NO I'm not looking to follow men But it is nice to get an honest / alternative point of view isn't it. And the CCJW say that higher education is a waste of time. Um, I wonder why they would say that. I think this gentleman and his book proves the point I'm making here.

Quote @Space Merchant I haven't see anything from you concerning Biblical Unitarianism. If so, give some insight because I see nothing of the sort from you. What Do Biblical Unitarians Believe? https://www.biblicalunitarian.com/articles/what-do-biblical-unitarians-believe Please check out our website TruthOrTradition.com, which covers a variety of biblical topics and has an expanded Statement of Beliefs. What is Our Relationship with The Body of Christ? The Body of Christ is our family. Christians of every denomination are our brothers and sisters. We were each adopted into this family when we accepted Christ as our Lord. In Galatians 6:10, Christians are instructed to be “especially good to the household of faith,” and to do things particularly for “one another”—like bear one another’s burdens, be subject to one another, be devoted to one another, speak truth to one another, and love one another. We are also tasked with maintaining the unity of the spirit in the bond of peace. Is this any good for a starter ?

Quote @Space Merchant "What some fail to see is that Jesus gave instruction on how the church is to function." In the 1st Century there was one Christian religion, as it should still be, but it isn't. Now there are many different 'Christian' religions each with their own 'leaders'. If I'm right in my thinking, your religion is more tolerant of others, but the CCJW is not. You seem more tolerant of some other religions than JWs would be, because JWs are told there is only one way to serve God, and that is through the CCJW.

Quote "That being said, this just shows you assume things without knowing." @Space Merchant I assumed that you are not a JW and that you have a close relationship with God through Christ. I also assumed that TTH believes that a person can only serve God through the CCJW

When using the actions of 'the world' to make excuses for the actions of one's own religion then In My Opinion (and I am allowed an opinion) it makes them part of the world. To say that everyone else does this or that, is judging one's own standards by 'worldly standards', not by God's standards.. For instance, saying that CSA is everywhere in 'the world', is not a good enough reason to accept it in one's own religion. And to say that everyone else misquotes scientists etc, is not a good reason to think that deliberately misquoting someone is good. Jehovah's Witnesses think that their Organisation's standards are higher than the standards of 'the world'. This is being constantly disproved, not only by 'opposers' but by JWs themselves. Therefor the CCJW Organisation, like most other religions, is just part of the world. The Spirit of this world includes, telling lies, being deceitful, hiding the truth, being dishonest, lacking love and mercy and mistreating others. Many Jehovah's Witnesses, from the top downwards, are guilty of these things. Hence i say that they are part of this world.