Patiently waiting for Truth

Here are some examples….

When in doubt use them all. “Apostate hateful OCD dodo” works well enough in a pinch, better for some than for others.

Peter get away from these nasty individuals - it is not worth wasting your time on them. 

I think one of the major problems here is that people do not know the difference between what a heretic is, and an apostate.
Calling someone an “apostate” here so frequently about everybody that doesn’t think exactly like the person calling the other an apostate has become like a “yo mama” joke.

The organization has a record…
·       of false teachings
·       of child abuse
·       of spousal abuse
·       of disfellowshipping
·       of shunning
·       of breaking up families
·       of “trampling” down the anointed priesthood to allow a counterfeit priesthood to be honored. (Matt 24:15,16; 2 Thess 2:3,4; Rev 11:1-2) 
In such an environment of all-inclusive abuse, where is the love?  There is none. Each bullet point is a practice of lawlessness.  Jesus fulfilled the law in love. (Rom 13:8-10) Every one of God's  commandments are fulfilled in love. (Rom 13:8-10) Then the Wt arrives, creating a different set of laws.  Do JWs love their neighbors as themselves? They easily shun their neighbors when men wielding authority over them, tell them they must.  Half of the time they don’t even know why they must shun their neighbor.  The just do it, out of subjection to men.  (Isa 2:22; Col 2:20-22) How many times has the guilty been considered the innocent ones in cases of abuse?  How many times are the women disfellowshipped while their elder husbands remain in good standing, when it was the elder who was guilty of adultery?  (Prov 24:24-25; 29:7; Isa 1:17)
 JWs’ leaders have rejected the words of Jesus by replacing them with their own - the doctrine of men. Yes!  You can’t say you follow the doctrine of Jesus Christ and mix it with your own! (Deut 4:2; Gal 1:8)  There is only one way, and one truth.  (John 14:6) It doesn’t include the laws/doctrine of men.  Why do JWs exalt uninspired men and their word, over the words of God and Jesus Christ?  WHERE has that been condoned in the word of God?
And no, simply because of this situation, dear Pudgy, the Wt will not thrive. Instead...expect the least expected, in the opposite way that you may be entertaining by your example of “chapter 3”.   God will not mold the organization according to His ways.  He will not mold people who don’t care to serve Him in love.  He turns only to the hearts who call out for justice and mercy.  (2 Chron 16:9;Prov 28:5; Ps 37:27-29; Isa 51:4-5;Heb 10:30)
“Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. 22 Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness.’  Matt 7:21-23 
This man’s story linked is widely available now.  Every JW should listen to it, and if they have genuine love in their heart, they will be moved to question their organization’s teachings.  They may even be moved to ask God why their organization does not practice love. (Rev 18:4-8)
For a certain, I will be told I am "malignant", stupid, crazy, demonic, etc., etc.; yet I will be upholding the Word of God and not Wt. doctrine.  Jesus upheld God's word, and for that he was told he had lost his mind, and he had a demon. Interesting, isn't it, how history repeats itself?   He was killed by his people.  For those of us who leave the organization and uphold the teachings of Jesus Christ, we experience the same shunning, and are given the same labels as he received. We lose loved ones, just as he predicted. (Mark 10:28-30) These people who reject false teachings, are "killed" by their own people through disfellowshipping.  (John 16:2; Rev 13:15) 
“They bend their tongues like their bows;
Lies and not truth prevail in the land;
For they proceed from evil to evil,
And they do not know Me,” declares the Lord.
4 “Let everyone be on guard against his neighbor,
And do not trust any brother;
Because every brother utterly betrays,
And every neighbor goes about as a slanderer.
5 Everyone deceives his neighbor
And does not speak the truth.
They have taught their tongue to speak lies;
They weary themselves committing wrongdoing.
6 Your dwelling is in the midst of deceit;
Through deceit they refuse to know Me,” declares the Lord.  Jer 9:3-6
"So, let us go out to Him outside the camp, bearing His reproach. For here we do not have a lasting city, but we are seeking the city which is to come."  Heb 13:13,14
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

Several more posts were just moved here from the Rutherford topic.

You are entitled to your one sided selfish opinion of course. 

Advancing mankind's progress to legalising Child Sexual Abuse more like, and toward lies and deceit, and dictatorship with the excuse of being the F&DS that everyone must listen to, and then the continuing lie that 'you have to be a baptised JW, baptised into the JW Org, to be saved'.  
You make me laugh with this idea of 'responsibility'. The GB have mocked God and Christ by telling so many lies and in so doing have stumbled thousands of people. 
Honor, what honor ?  Oh yes you Americans are brainwashed with strange ways of course. So much honour in owning a houseful of weapons and believing that God thinks war is ok. 
You make me want to throw up. Thousands of innocent young children raped, sexually abused, wifes physically beaten, in this JW org that you say has 'honor, virtue, discipling, and responsibility'. 
But you and most other Americans just push people aside as Collateral Damage. So chose Jehovah's Witnesses and let Yeshua be your judge. 
As for me i want no part of such a wicked immoral organisation. 

All the non-Christians (who would soon learn to become Christians as the millennium progressed). Of course this would be after the then-imminent rapture of the rest of the 144000. Then the left-behind Christians would likely die off normally and get their lesser heavenly reward over the next few years as they each met their own natural or circumstantial death.

No problem there. For several years, only the anointed were called "Jehovah's witnesses." For Rutherford, it was the way that the types and anti-types worked out for the identification of Israel in Isaiah 43. They were not to speak of a member of the "Other Sheep," "Great Crowd," as Jehovah's witnesses.
Russell had previously discussed the verse and presented it nearly the same way, saying that it meant that all true Christians would be called true Israelites, the Israel of God.
Russell's comments:
[Isa. 43:7] "Called by my name —Israel means "People of God" and the name will ultimately apply to all who are his. " .
. .  Those who thus covenant with God are begotten of the spirit of God, and as many such as are thenceforth led of the spirit of God, they are the recognized sons of God (Rom. 8:14)
But Russell considered the "Great Crowd" to also be a heavenly class, and anointed, just not the antitype of the more consecrated priestly Israelites: the Bride/Body that made up the 144,000. Russell's views on Isaiah 43 were confusing, however, because he was a Zionist who believed that the Jews were already returning to Palestine, setting up to make earthly Jerusalem the administrative capital of the world.
[Isa. 43:5] Gather thee —As certain as this prophecy has been fulfilled in the preservation of down-trodden Israel in all lands, so certain will it be fulfilled in their restoration to their own land. R232:5*
Rutherford gave up on Russell's Zionist views around 1930, opening the way for a clearer understanding of spiritual Israel. And a clearer understanding of Isaiah 43.

I would like to know if somewhere JFR claimed to be "spirit-led", in the sense that today's GB explains the term "spirit-led"?

Witness:
Most everything you say is true, but my perspective is quite different.
I was for many years a strong advocate of the Confederate States of America … and grew up with a 6 foot long Confederate battle flag above my bed headboard, and worked for a guy that had a civil war cannon in front of his business … and when traveling would frequent places where (for a large tip) the band would play “Dixie” for me. I was a great admirer of General Robert E. Lee, and still am.
The point being, “Church Ideas” are like battles being fought in the “Arena of Ideas”, and as in any war, the best battle plans often crumble with first contact.
Even General Lee, a superior man by any estimation, and an excellent General, made serious mistakes where tens of thousands of soldiers under his command were needlessly slaughtered. The attempt to take Cemetery Ridge in Gettysburg, Pennsylvania is a good example, and a fascinating study of what happens when ego and error are multiplied.
Yeah, the GB creeps me out with their self serving egotism, and don’t get me started on Caleb and Sophia, or “Overlapping Generations”, or three dozen other topics, but if I was an atheist, and did an analysis of which group on this earth had the best chance of advancing mankind’s progress toward honor, virtue, discipline and responsibility ….. not just survival …. but advancement ….. I would choose Jehovah’s Witnesses.
It’s like a “weighted” test score in school …. Getting the most IMPORTANT things right counts for more than things of actual, practical, lesser importance.
To understand my viewpoint you will need to get at least 4 beers, and read the third chapter of Isaac Asimov’s classic “I, Robot” in one sitting ….. and THINK about it!

You've  just described spiritual drunkenness that the Bible addresses when God's people under covenant teach false doctrines and the commands of men.  
Isa 29:9-14; 28:7-9,15; Jer 13:12-16; Prov 29:12; Matt 24:48-51; Hab 2:15-16; Rev 17:1-2; 18:2-3,9-10
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Isa+29%3A9-14%3B+28%3A7-9%2C15%3B+Jer+13%3A12-16%3B+Prov+29%3A12%3B+Matt+24%3A48-51%3B+Hab+2%3A15-16%3B+Rev+17%3A1-2%3B+18%3A2-3%2C9-10&version=NASB
 
Then the Lord said,
“Because this people approaches Me with their words 
And honors Me with their lips,
But their heart is far away from Me,
And their reverence for Me consists of the commandment of men that is taught;
 Therefore behold, I will once again deal marvelously with this people, wondrously marvelous;
And the wisdom of their wise men will perish,
And the understanding of their men who have understanding will be concealed.”  Isa 29:13-14
It is from pure spiritual drunkenness, pervasive in the organization, that JWs remain incognizant to the severity before God, of Wt's record of falsehoods and the doctrine of men, laced throughout their teachings.  In fact their reaction is flippant, having no respect for what is truth and what is a lie, according to the Father and the Son.
Is the GB  truly the "faithful slave" serving  food at the proper time?  
"Words from the mouth of a wise person are gracious, while the lips of a fool consume him; 13 the beginning of his talking is foolishness, and the end of it is evil insanity. 14 Yet the fool multiplies words. No person knows what will happen, and who can tell him what will come after him? 
15 The labor of a fool makes him so weary that he does not even know how to go to a city. 16 Woe to you, land whose king is a boy, and whose princes feast in the morning. 
17 Blessed are you, land whose king is of nobility, (Jesus Christ)  and whose princes eat at the appropriate time—for strength and not for drunkenness. "  Eccl 10:12-17
 

In the same line of thinking, the GB / Watchtower / JW Org only has a negitive view of everyone outside the Org. Your children are not allowed to play with people from the 'world', the same are told not to go to after school activities with people forn the 'world', young adults are told not to go into higher educaton with people of the 'world'.  Adult JWs are told not to mix with people in the 'world' anymore than they have to. The whole JW Org is geared up to distrust people of this world. The ministry is done out of duty to the Org. There is no love of neighbour. 
And the negitivity shows in your attitude Mr Carroll. As for Hitler, i wouldn't know I've never studied such things. 
And by the way the topic is not hopes, it is a success story. The success of proving that the GB and Co lied about and tried to keep secret the problem of CSA in the JW Org. 

I agree 100% with JWI’s assessment and post, above, and I am very critical of the Governing Body, and temporarily not one of Jehovah’s Witnesses.
A study and understanding of History gives a person a better perspective of the importance of the infinite elements of why today ….. is the way it is.
   —> SNAFU IS WITH US ALWAYS! <—
It’s like a drunkard stumbling down the street, weaving, falling down, crashing into stuff, being helped by another drunk.
Realistically, the most we can hope for is to make it to the corner, and home, without getting hit by a bus.
Such is the nature of ALL fragile, carbon based DNA life forms. There are no exceptions, as the concept of self-righteousness alludes to.
As we have seen, and today is day 100 in the “Special Military Operation” war between the Russian Federation and the Ukraine, wars are not fought with the leadership and resources you want …. wars are fought with the leadership and resources you  HAVE!
All else is self-righteous fantasy.
 

Of course the foundation is Christ, but that belief system will never establish itself within the organization.  
“Like those in Christendom, the early Bible Students mistakenly allowed their love for Jesus to overshadow their relationship with Jehovah. Beginning in 1919, however, they came to see that Jehovah and their relationship with him should be the focus of their worship. We can be thankful that we understand that our affection for Jesus is key to having a relationship with Jehovah. We must attach neither too much nor too little importance to our love for Jesus.—John 16:27.   W 4/2022 study article #17
This sounds to me that Wt’s “foundation in Christ” is on shaky ground.  It must be that way, because the teachings of men will always take precedence. 
The definition of love for Christ in the paragraph, is a teaching of men, and not of God.  Love for either the Father or the Son cannot be gauged by the Wt.  (Matt 15:9) But the leadership will continue to manage another's faith; and in that way, their organization will never allow a foundation in Christ to develop within one's heart.  
 “The one who has my commands and keeps them is the one who loves me. And the one who loves me will be loved by my Father. I also will love him and will reveal myself to him.”  John 14:21
Did the apostles feel the need to constrain themselves when expressing their love for Jesus? 
“For the love of Christ controls us, having concluded this, that one died for all, therefore all died; 15 and He died for all, so that those who live would no longer live for themselves, but for Him who died and rose on their behalf.” 2 Cor 5:14,15
Since your leaders deem it necessary to reach out and control one’s love for Jesus Christ, who is it that has no love for him?   Who loves their organization more than Jesus Christ?
 
 
 
 

1914 is a good case in point. I'm interested in how our chronology traditions developed, and how these teachings were justified, and changed, and re-justified, with both secular mistakes, and Biblical interpretion mistakes. But I'm not interested in anecdotes about the personalities of those people who carried on and defended the chronology traditions. Those traditions (1844, 1874, 1878, 1881, 1910, 1914, 1918, 1925) either stand or fall on whether they had Biblical support. The human and secular support, or lack thereof, is far less relevant. The point should not be to embarrass Wm Miller, Nelson Barbour, Joseph Seiss, Charles Russell, Morton Edgar, or Joseph Rutherford, but to check such teachings against the Bible "touchstone."

Sir, clutching at straws is when your leaders pull up the names and select actions of past leaders. Isn’t that what the Warwick Museum has accomplished? Do your leaders not “live in the past” by devoting an entire museum to their history?  Today’s leaders highlight only what present JWs are allowed to know about them; defending what seems harmless, and ignoring the damage they caused to the people who listened to them when they led them astray with false doctrines.  THAT is a sad life, when the organization’s history has to be strained of all embarrassment to make it palatable. 
If one truly  reads the Bible, would they come to the conclusion that God dismisses false doctrines? (Dan 9:11-14)  Or, would they realize that God does not tolerate His people to create illusions and false teachings…and along with these wayward ideas, then say these people represent the true God?  (Deut 18:20-22)
“Then the LORD said to me, “The prophets are prophesying lies in my name. I have not sent them or appointed them or spoken to them. They are prophesying to you false visions, divinations, idolatries and the delusions of their own minds.
Therefore this is what the LORD says about the prophets who are prophesying in my name: I did not send them, yet they are saying, ‘No sword or famine will touch this land.’ Those same prophets will perish by sword and famine.”  Jer 14:14,15; Rev 6:7,8; 1 Thess 5:3
 
 
 
 
 

.

This is interesting even though i have no idea who the 'Standfasters' were.  Interesting because JWs here seem to think that the Watchtower leaders were the first to teach many things, because (they say) the W/t leaders are guided by God's Holy spirit. 
It would be nice to know of any other spiritual things that the Watchtower leaders / JW leaders coppied from others. 

This is interesting even though i have no idea who the 'Standfasters' were.  Interesting because JWs here seem to think that the Watchtower leaders were the first to teach many things, because (they say) the W/t leaders are guided by God's Holy spirit. 
It would be nice to know of any other spiritual things that the Watchtower leaders / JW leaders coppied from others. 

"Brothers and sisters, consider your calling: Not many were wise from a human perspective, not many powerful, not many of noble birth. 27 Instead, God has chosen what is foolish in the world to shame the wise, and God has chosen what is weak in the world to shame the strong. 28 God has chosen what is insignificant and despised in the world—what is viewed as nothing—to bring to nothing what is viewed as something, 29 so that no one may boast in his presence. 30 It is from him that you are in Christ Jesus, who became wisdom from God for us—our righteousness, sanctification, and redemption— 31 in order that, as it is written: Let the one who boasts, boast in the Lord." 1 Cor  1:26-31
Not in themselves by stating they are indeed "faithful and discreet"; and not in an earthly organization.
 
 

A recent headline on exjw reddit reads, “Russell’s pyramid monument was actually erected as a 'memorial to the Society'. It was in the exact center of the Bethel burial lot.”
He or she quotes from the “I.B.S.A” Convention Report found on page 7 of this link: https://archive.org/.../1919BibleStud.../page/n4/mode/1up...
JWs may say, “but that was a long time ago, and we don’t believe in “God’s Great Stone Witness” anymore. We’ve had new light”, which came from Judge Rutherford:
"Then Satan put his knowledge in dead stone, which may be called Satan's Bible, and not God's stone witness. In erecting the pyramid, of course, Satan would put in it some truth, because that is his method of practicing fraud and deceit." Wt 1928 11/15 p. 344
Still, the replicated stone pyramid at Russell’s gravesite, remained until recently removed because of vandalism. Has it really been that long since Russel died? My grandfather died at age 91 when I was 12 years old. He was born in 1877 and was 39 years old at Russell's death. Putting into perspective the convergence of lifespans, and comparing Wt’s existence against the expansive history that we have in the Bible, it has been only a ‘little while’, since the Society/organization had its beginnings; a ‘short time’ of teachings that have kept God’s anointed captivated to any “new light” lurking around the corner, just waiting to be discovered. (Rev 20:3,7-9; 12:12; Luke 21:20; Col 2:8; Rev 13:10) 
What I find interesting is that CT Russell is said to be in heaven, according to GB Splane, and overseeing the production of “fruit”; publications full of teachings that have been developed and taught over the years, as well as the progress made by the organization as a whole. (Matt 7:15-20) Russell has apparently approved of all “spiritual food” produced; otherwise, why would it have been published? This includes the predictions that never came to fruition; and those archaic teachings that cannot be referred to by recent converts in the organization today. (Eccl 12:11-12; Deut 18:20; Ezek 13:6-9; 2 Pet 2:1-3) 
For all his falsehoods, which the deceived hearts of JWs easily dismiss, the man is still revered for his great work of spreading the “good news”. Although it is understood that he was anointed, a “living stone” of the Temple of God, and who apparently is now serving as a priest under Christ (1 Pet 2:5,9; 1 Cor 3:16), he is honored as a foundation stone of what soon after, became known as the Wt. organization. The scriptures prove that this is the home of the “man of lawlessness”, which has trampled down the “remaining ones of the woman’s seed”. (Luke 6:26; 1 Cor 4:10; 2 Tim 2:19) (Mark 13:22; Rom 1:24-25; Rev 13:1,2,4,7; Dan 11:31; Matt 24:15,16; 2 Thess 2:3,4; Rev 11:1,2; 12:13,15,17) 
Russell, a man said to be blessed by God with eternal life and “kingship” in Jesus Christ (Rev 5:9,10), purchased the previously called “Plymouth Bethel” in Brooklyn, and named it, “Brooklyn Tabernacle”, or what came to be called at a later date, the “Watchtower Bible and Tract Society”. 
In Russell’s “tabernacle” was an operating office, and “a small printery, stock and shipping departments” (w 1955/3/1 p.140,141) From there, it seems that the “law” or doctrine of men was born, inspired, and began to establish strength down to this day. A modern-day idol was being formed. (Mark 7:7,8; Col 2:20-22; Exod 20:3-6; Ezek 14:1-3; Rev 9:1-4;13:1,2,11,12) 
Acts 7:44 – “Our ancestors had the tabernacle of the covenant law with them in the wilderness. It had been made as God directed Moses, according to the pattern he had seen.”
In Heb 8:5, we see that warning given to Moses when he ready to build the tabernacle - "See to it that you make everything according to the pattern shown you on the mountain."
The ancient tabernacle was the dwelling place of God’s Holy Spirit, with Him as its architect. It housed His commandments. Today, it signifies Jesus Christ and his faithful anointed, once sealed in heaven, who have written on their heart, the “laws” of God in Jesus Christ. (Rev 12:5; Eph 2:6; Gal 4:26; Col 2:17; Rev 14:1; 15:5; Mal 2:7; Heb 8:10). 
If Russel, who is claimed to be the messenger of Malachi 3:1, was sent by Jesus to cleanse his temple of sin and refine the priesthood in the last days, would he dare blaspheme the meaning of the sacred spiritual tabernacle built on the Body of Jesus Christ, by dedicating a printing outlet in New York, as “Brooklyn Tabernacle”? (Ezek 44:10,12,13; Mal 3:1,3; 1 Pet 2:5; 1 Cor 3:16; 2 Cor 6:15-17; Eph 2:20-22) 
What spirit dwelled in that brick building? What spirit dwelled the heart of the man who named it?
1 Tim 4:1 – “But the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and teachings of demons.”
He set the stage for the building of an idol that requires one’s faith, dedication and adherence to the doctrine of men. (2 Cor 11:1-4,13-15) Those succeeding heads of the organization appearing after Russell, refer to it as “Zion”, a counterfeit of the Temple/sanctuary of God. (2 Tim 3:13; Rev 13:1,6; Acts 17:24,25,29) 
It is not built with God’s Spirit and His truth in Jesus Christ; nor can it lead people to eternal life. (Isa 57:13) It is an idol demonically “inspired” and sustained with the power, dominion and the fleshly greed of men. (Luke 4:5-7; Matt 24:24,25; Col 3:5; Gal 5:17-21; 1 Pet 2:6-8; Rev 13:15-16; 16:13-16) 
“The Spirit alone gives eternal life. Human effort accomplishes nothing. And the very words I have spoken to you are spirit and life.” John 6:63
 
When is Satan's Short Period of Time?
 
 

I have just moved about 130 more posts from here to the other topic linked here:
https://www.theworldnewsmedia.org/topic/89872-posts-moved-from-a-recent-topic-about-a-jfrutherford-book
Hope this doesn't cause any confusion.

I have just moved about 100 more posts to here from that other topic about Rutherford. Hope this doesn't cause any confusion.