Dmitar

Unfortunately just because some call them selves JW doesn't mean they act like they are supposed to. They are JWs in name only.
I am sorry you had such a horrible childhood. My father in law, a baptized JW, was an alcoholic and beat his wife and children. Regularly. The elders might be deceived by appearances but Jehovah sees it all and he will met out justice. 

One word: 
TRIAGE
 

Wrong, "real" JWs respect the 8 men as fellow servants. You are the one making them out to be something they are not. The respect as inscribed in scripture is for the weight and responsibility they have before God.
Wrong, that's you take not the truth. Baptism is made before God.
The choice has always been for the individual to serve God properly. You are an example of that choice.
If a person has no Christian conscience such as former witnesses, how can you explain by your choice why you weren't taken over by the GB and Elders? Wouldn't you, in effect, be in control of an institution like a zombie?
I believe there has been ample evidence to show how the Watchtower has dealt with child abuse through the decades. Aside from the notifications to the Elders, there are plenty of Watchtower articles condemning such behavior.
That you have a different agenda to make false claims, then that's on you, and former and present Jehovah's Witnesses here.

I’m surprised that all these people that are extrapolating things from the book of Daniel have not somehow invoked the infamous “ManBearPig” of “Climate Change”, previously known as “Global Warming”.

I largely agree. But I think that there is another way to look at the original historical events for MOST historical events found in the scriptures. I look at them like this:
(Romans 15:4, 5) . . .For all the things that were written beforehand were written for our instruction, so that through our endurance and through the comfort from the Scriptures we might have hope. 5 Now may the God who supplies endurance and comfort grant you to have among yourselves the same mental attitude that Christ Jesus had,
(1 Corinthians 10:1-11) . . .Now I want you to know, brothers, that our forefathers were all under the cloud and all passed through the sea 2 and all got baptized into Moses by means of the cloud and of the sea, 3 and all ate the same spiritual food 4 and all drank the same spiritual drink. For they used to drink from the spiritual rock that followed them, and that rock meant the Christ. 5 Nevertheless, God was not pleased with most of them, for they were struck down in the wilderness. 6 Now these things became examples for us, in order for us not to desire injurious things, as they desired them. 7 Neither become idolaters, as some of them did; just as it is written: “The people sat down to eat and drink. Then they got up to have a good time.” 8 Neither let us practice sexual immorality, as some of them committed sexual immorality, only to fall, 23,000 of them in one day. 9 Neither let us put Jehovah to the test, as some of them put him to the test, only to perish by the serpents. 10 Neither be murmurers, as some of them murmured, only to perish by the destroyer. 11 Now these things happened to them as examples, and they were written for a warning to us upon whom the ends of the systems of things have come.
In other words, the specifics are not applied to certain classes of Christians any more than they are applied to certain specific rulers or kingdoms. We don't have a Korah, Dathan and Abiram murmuring class who put Moses to the test in a specific way, for example. But we do learn a lesson for our instruction that no one, or no group of people, should put the words of Jesus to the test, or try to usurp, or take away from the authority of Jehovah's arrangement, who put Jesus as head over the congregation. So when Pharoah tried to attack the Israelites going through the sea, we don't need a new fulfillment of "Pharoah" every few decades. We don't need to identify the specific "Pharoah" of the 1st, 2nd . . . 19th, 20th and 21st centuries.
I think this is also true of the King of the North, for example. We have a specific person who Daniel had in mind for the great king whose kingdom was broken up to the four winds. We know that this great king was Alexander the Great. We don't need a new Alexander for each generation of history, or each generation of Jehovah's Witnesses. That's where I can personally see the LESSON of the "King of the North." We can always look at an event of history and say well that was the Pharaoh of this-or-that time period. Or that was the "abomination of desolation" of this-or-that time period.
I'm thinking, therefore, that Jesus wasn't identifying a "new" [Seleucid] king of the north when speaking of the Romans who would surround Jerusalem.
Jews of that generation would already have identified Caligula with Antiochus Epiphanes, for example, when Caligula had ordered the erection of his statue in the Temple at Jerusalem -- something that directly led to the revolution in Judea that resulted in the fulfillment of Jesus prophecy about the surrounding armies. This was all too similar to what Antiochus had done a couple centuries earlier. But this didn't mean that Antiochus was Caligula, only that the lesson was appropriate. There would be nothing wrong with saying that Caligula was being "an Antiochus," but not in the sense that he was the specific fulfillment of a prophecy.
All this makes sense to me up to a point, and I explained it OK. But it doesn't make sense completely, and I think this is where you are already coming from. For example, Paul in Thessalonians was very specific about identifying an end-times "antichrist" using the same terms as found in Daniel. This is part of the argument found here, too:
https://enduringword.com/bible-commentary/daniel-11/

I should have mentioned above that the Insight book identifies Alexander's generals who became the KON and KOS, but they point to the Daniel's prophecy book which provides more historical info:
*** it-2 p. 509 North ***
“The King of the North.” Facts of history provide still another basis for determining how “north” is to be understood in some texts. A case in point is “the king of the north” mentioned in Daniel chapter 11. Historical evidence indicates that the “mighty king” of Daniel 11:3 was Alexander the Great. After Alexander’s death, the empire was eventually divided among his four generals. One of these generals, Seleucus Nicator, took Mesopotamia and Syria, this making him the ruler of territory situated N of Palestine. Another general, Ptolemy Lagus, gained control of Egypt, to the SW of Palestine. Therefore, with Seleucus Nicator and Ptolemy Lagus the long struggle between “the king of the north” and “the king of the south” began. However, the prophecy concerning “the king of the north” extends from the time of Seleucus Nicator down to “the time of the end.” (Da 11:40) Logically, then, the national and political identity of “the king of the north” would change in the course of history. But it would still be possible to determine his identity on the basis of what the prophecy said the “king of the north” would do.—See the book Pay Attention to Daniel’s Prophecy!, 1999, pp. 211-285.
But the Daniel book adds a lot more info, I'll edit it down:
*** dp chap. 13 pp. 213-229 Two Kings in Conflict ***
A GREAT KINGDOM DIVIDED INTO FOUR
8 “A mighty king will certainly stand up and rule with extensive dominion and do according to his will,” said the angel. (Daniel 11:3) Twenty-year-old Alexander ‘stood up’ as king of Macedonia in 336 B.C.E. He did become “a mighty king”—Alexander the Great. Driven by a plan of his father, Philip II, he took the Persian provinces in the Middle East. Crossing the Euphrates and Tigris rivers, his 47,000 men scattered the 250,000 troops of Darius III at Gaugamela. Subsequently, Darius fled and was murdered, ending the Persian dynasty. Greece now became the world power, and Alexander ‘ruled with extensive dominion and did according to his will.’
9 Alexander’s rulership over the world was to be brief, for God’s angel added: “When he will have stood up, his kingdom will be broken and be divided toward the four winds of the heavens, but not to his posterity and not according to his dominion with which he had ruled; because his kingdom will be uprooted, even for others than these.” (Daniel 11:4) Alexander was not quite 33 years old when sudden illness took his life in Babylon in 323 B.C.E.
10 Alexander’s vast empire did not pass to “his posterity.” His brother Philip III Arrhidaeus reigned for less than seven years and was murdered at the instance of Olympias, Alexander’s mother, in 317 B.C.E. Alexander’s son Alexander IV ruled until 311 B.C.E. when he met death at the hands of Cassander, one of his father’s generals. Alexander’s illegitimate son Heracles sought to rule in his father’s name but was murdered in 309 B.C.E. Thus ended the line of Alexander, “his dominion” departing from his family.
11 Following the death of Alexander, his kingdom was “divided toward the four winds.” His many generals quarreled among themselves as they grabbed for territory. One-eyed General Antigonus I tried to bring all of Alexander’s empire under his control. But he was killed in a battle at Ipsus in Phrygia. By the year 301 B.C.E., four of Alexander’s generals were in power over the vast territory that their commander had conquered. Cassander ruled Macedonia and Greece. Lysimachus gained control over Asia Minor and Thrace. Seleucus I Nicator secured Mesopotamia and Syria. And Ptolemy Lagus took Egypt and Palestine. True to the prophetic word, Alexander’s great empire was divided into four Hellenistic kingdoms.
TWO RIVAL KINGS EMERGE
12 A few years after coming to power, Cassander died, and in 285 B.C.E., Lysimachus took possession of the European part of the Greek Empire. In 281 B.C.E., Lysimachus fell in battle before Seleucus I Nicator, giving Seleucus control over the major portion of the Asiatic territories. Antigonus II Gonatas, grandson of one of Alexander’s generals, ascended to the throne of Macedonia in 276 B.C.E. In time, Macedonia became dependent upon Rome and ended up as a Roman province in 146 B.C.E.
13 Only two of the four Hellenistic kingdoms now remained prominent—one under Seleucus I Nicator and the other under Ptolemy Lagus. Seleucus established the Seleucid dynasty in Syria. Among the cities he founded were Antioch—the new Syrian capital—and the seaport of Seleucia. The apostle Paul later taught in Antioch, where the followers of Jesus first came to be called Christians. (Acts 11:25, 26; 13:1-4) Seleucus was assassinated in 281 B.C.E., but his dynasty ruled until 64 B.C.E. when Roman General Gnaeus Pompey made Syria a Roman province.
14 The Hellenistic kingdom that lasted the longest of the four was that of Ptolemy Lagus, or Ptolemy I, who assumed the title of king in 305 B.C.E. The Ptolemaic dynasty that he established continued to rule Egypt until it fell to Rome in 30 B.C.E.
15 Thus out of four Hellenistic kingdoms, there emerged two strong kings—Seleucus I Nicator over Syria and Ptolemy I over Egypt. With these two kings began the long struggle between “the king of the north” and “the king of the south,” described in Daniel chapter 11. Jehovah’s angel left the names of the kings unmentioned, for the identity and nationality of these two kings would change throughout the centuries. Omitting unnecessary details, the angel mentioned only rulers and events that have a bearing on the conflict.
          ...[skipping a lot]...
WHAT DID YOU DISCERN?
• What two lines of strong kings emerged out of Hellenistic kingdoms, and what struggle did the kings begin?
• As foretold at Daniel 11:6, how did the two kings enter into “an equitable arrangement”?
• How did the conflict continue between
   Seleucus II and Ptolemy III (Daniel 11:7-9)?
   Antiochus III and Ptolemy IV (Daniel 11:10-12)?
   Antiochus III and Ptolemy V (Daniel 11:13-16)?
• What was the purpose of the marriage between Cleopatra I and Ptolemy V, and why did the scheme fail (Daniel 11:17-19)?
• How has paying attention to Daniel 11:1-19 benefited you?
What seems odd to me, is just how specifically all the prophecy exactly fits The Seleucids and the Ptolemies. Nothing that exact comes close to fitting any of the future KONs and KOSs that might be identified through the following centuries.
The long portions that I skipped make this even clearer, but I didn't want to just put the entire chapter(s) up here. All of us can read it however at: https://www.jw.org/en/library/books/Pay-Attention-to-Daniels-Prophecy/
 

This is one of the reasons apparently why the book of Daniel was nearly not accepted into the Jewish Canon of Holy Scriptures (and why Revelation for similar reasons was nearly not accepted into the Christian Canon of Holy Scriptures). Of nearly all the books, these were two where the disputes lasted about the longest.
It probably seemed too specific to the circumstances of the first group for whom it had an intended audience. But we have it recorded that Jesus quoted the book of Daniel, where the context was about the KON, and he implied that Rome was taking on the role that the Seleucids had fulfilled. But this implication can be disputed, too, because Jesus never mentioned the King of the North, but he did imply that the fulfillment of the "disgusting thing that causes desolation" was to have a fulfillment at around the time when the Roman armies would be surrounding, or preparing to surround, Jerusalem and the Temple.
(Matthew 24:15, 16) . . .“Therefore, when you catch sight of the disgusting thing that causes desolation, as spoken about by Daniel the prophet, standing in a holy place (let the reader use discernment), 16 then let those in Ju·deʹa begin fleeing to the mountains."
(Luke 21:20, 21) 20 “However, when you see Jerusalem surrounded by encamped armies, then know that the desolating of her has drawn near. 21 Then let those in Ju·deʹa begin fleeing to the mountains,. . .
And if Jesus was allowing for a second fulfillment , or completion of the fulfillment in those years, then do we have the right to go beyond what Jesus said and also make it about who the King of the North and King of the South should be in all the future years after Rome?

I also try to never impune motives, but some things are so painfully, and embarrassingly obvious.    

I was hoping to avoid the typical sarcasm (I'm guilty of it too) against the organizations of Christendom and our own WTS, too, who have had a lot of untenable explanations and interpretations over the years for these things. I don't want to impute bad motives when I don't know the motives. I understand the circumstances that the WTS and GB have sort of boxed themselves into by believing that there must be a specific "last days" interpretation. I know some of the reasons for this interpretation, especially the identification of the KON with Russia now, and Germany in the 1940's, for example.
But I see some issues with the explanation, and hoped to deal specifically with the issues about the explanations, not the motives.

Several problems arise when we approach Da 11 from a preterist or historicist perspective.
First of all, I believe that the first mistake in approaching this prophecy (along with those of Revelation) is to try to apply them to events "of the present moment" as soon as we think we determine that some piece fits in the puzzle, only to discover some time later that we have to readjust (Zenobia, for example).
A problem that we JW's have is that since everything pivots around 1914 we try to make the key turn in that lock, closing our eyes to any other possibility. Actually, it must be admitted that there are two possibilities.
1. Everything was fulfilled at the time of the Hellenic kings who influenced Israel, mainly Antiochus IV Epiphanes 2. Much of what we believe has already been accomplished is still in the future and must be fulfilled. I am only going to get involved at this point with point 1.
DANIEL 11:25-27
Scholars mention that these passages have to do with some Syrian wars (KoN) against the Ptolemies (KoS) but they are not sure what specific events.
Until recently we talked about Queen Zenobia and her generals as antagonists of Rome and KoS. Now, we see in these verses the German Empire and its defeat in the IWW
...And so on. Scholars focusing on Syria-Egypt, JW's on 20th and 21st century events.
WHY ANTIOCUS IV IS NOT THE GREAT PROTAGONIST OF DANIEL 11
Daniel 11:40-45
This is in no way related to the acts of Antiochus or any other Hellenic KoN. Numerous commentators apply these words to a character related to the Antichrist.
Daniel 11:45
When biblical scholars try to apply this passage to the death of the Syrian king they have to admit that Daniel (or a pseudo-Daniel) was wrong, since the king is known not to die in the Promised Land ("of Decoration")
Daniel 11:31b
Although many think that this refers to the desecration of the temple by this impious king, as collected in the Maccabean books, Jesus Christ himself (Mat 24:15 and Mr 13:14) applies it to the future, not to events of the 2nd century BC .

 

….. I saw the look of panic and desperation in GB Member Samuel Herd’s eyes as he described the poverty wages he made as a gardener.
 

BECAUSE , If you can convince a significant number of people that you have “special insight”, you can bathe in a river of never ending money.
….. beats having to do lawn work for a living, in July and August!

Thanks JWI,
The part that I am concerned with is this:
If I have full and complete understanding about everything there is to know about these two subjects. Or know nothing whatsoever … what’s the practical, applicable difference in a normal person’s life and daily activities?
we have no control over any of it. 

Yes, I see your point. And I also think that Jews and Christians thought they were seeing the fulfillment of the prophecies (and also many of us).
Considering that Jesus refers to Daniel as a "prophet", and that many of his prophecies culminate in the "time of the end" (for example Daniel 2:44) it is still very interesting to investigate where, in Daniel 10 to 12, we could discover specific events of our era.
 
 

Yes, at some point the character is no longer a Seleucid king, not even a Roman, because nothing of the next verses happened in past times:
(Daniel 11:45-12:2) . . .And he will plant his royal tents between the grand sea and the holy mountain of Decoration; and he will come all the way to his end, and there will be no helper for him. 12 “During that time Mi'cha·el will stand up, the great prince who is standing in behalf of your people. And there will occur a time of distress such as has not occurred since there came to be a nation until that time. And during that time your people will escape, everyone who is found written down in the book. 2 And many of those asleep in the dust of the earth will wake up, some to everlasting life and others to reproach and to everlasting contempt.
Evidently, at some point the prophecy abandons the past and tackles the future. The problem is knowing where to cut!
 

Whatever you have to tell yourself to make yourself feel better, when it comes to abusive parents, let the public know how terrible you might have been as a kid. It could very well be those JWs parents you hate by your attitude, might have not been strict with you because of their institution. It might have been personal.
I knew many young and foolish witnesses that were disciplined for their personal destructive behavior. So, do you think, JWs parents should allow their children to experiment with "drugs" "alcohol" "sex"?
How about, getting into gangs? This is for the USA. 
How about becoming a thief because of drugs, etc. What kind of activism are former Jehovah's Witnesses pushing here?

Seems to me, someone else enjoys telling stories like @Pudgy for entertainment purposes. Some stories seem so fake, that mutt will turn into a cat.

If people here want to feel sorry for ExJW's that tell stories just to get attention here, you're more gullible than you thought. Therefore, your sympathy is displayed.
Then again, it could be that certain people here had some negative experiences with parents that refused to let their children be poisoned by this world. If that's the case, then the empathy is empty.

…… could be worse …..
 

I’m terribly sorry Mathew if you had such unstable parents as you describe ,,,this does happen at times. I am for the last few years talking with and adult who experienced what you seem to have . This person can see we are not all like that and has a even started praying again after twenty years of hating all religion. This person has also told me strongly they will never ever go back (kh) I said that was fair enough…they have made contact with Jehovah and he is a reader of hearts…I’m sure he will do what is right with this person’s situation.
Again I really am sorry for your particular situation…and wish you well.
And yes the match stick quote was a cringeworthy time for me also….we are all so  different in nature…

Still waiting for your 3rd party truth. It would be horrifying if each individual denomination would only help their own specific denomination, and much more chaotic. Most of the individual soldiers I believe mostly are Catholic, I am not catholic, they are not adopted into the family of God, neither are jw's. 
When I started a bible study again several years back, my conductor at the time and I discussed 9-11. He made a very strong statement that if there was a natural disaster and if he saw his neighbors house damaged and heard his neighbor screaming for help, he had to ignore the neighbor and do what ever he could to reach an elder and head straight to the kingdom hall. I had a problem with this reasoning and so he told me I would have to agree to this too if I was interested in progressing any further.
Well you guys aren't doing much in stopping war or stopping people from killing others, heck even some of your own brothers have killed innocent people, even pregnant women and children.
Lastly, the jw's are an off shoot of the bible students, which were an off shoot of 7th day Adventist. Even jw's have had different denominations stream from them, so jw's aren't an exclusive group.
Gonna stop with you now, your deflecting the conversation into other subjects.
So again, please provide proof jw's are helping non-jw's and/or working with other religious organizations to provide aide to all.

Believe me, I’ve been there.
Still am in many cases.  

Then you never understood the book of Daniel!
No, because I'm not an apostate pretending to be a Jehovah's Witness like people here alongside former Jehovah's Witnesses. If you haven't noticed, woeful fools continue to insist for my banishment.
My interest was twofold, one is to correct "all" the misinformation and wrongful representation about scripture and the Watchtower that all you people have had free, reign on for the visitor, and two, how prophetic events work. In this case, when @JW Insider mentioned "he doesn't know" I believe it. He has never known how to interpret scripture other than out of ignorance.
So, my brothers are "real" Jehovah's Witnesses dedicated to obey and serve God through their promise in baptism to dedicate their lives to Jehovah. They don't pick and chose what they like and don't like about scripture or the implementation thereof.
These fools here are nothing like that. It would be an insult to the institution and its members to equate these people with honest and dedicated witnesses. You think that jerk @TrueTomHarley when he made a clownish remark about his status as not being a witness? In his heart he spoke the truth, he knows he isn't. He just likes to make people here, think, otherwise.
What should be funny too @Anna is how much of a joke they really are. 😁

Bingo!
You nailed it!
But I realize things that have a practical application take precedence.
I prefer to think about the convection currents between the windwalls of the latitude bands of the atmosphere of Jupiter.….. silly me!

'real' JWs serve only those 8 men that call themselves the F&DS.  Their baptism is into the JW Org, they don't even use the words that Yeshua told them to use. They don't pick and chose because they have to do exactly as the GB tells them to do. They have no Christian conscience because it has been 'taken over' by the GB and the Elders. This can be proven by how JWs promote the lies of the GB and the Org.  Not to mention how they hide Pedophiles in the congregations.