b4ucuhear

Good explanation. When in our publications "The word of God" is used in an extended sense referring to the Bible (as a book which contains promises of God and other information in written form) Word has a capital "W." But when quoting the actual passage referring to God's promises themselves, it has a small "w" - it may be confusing to some to see the difference. 

Good explanation. When in our publications "The word of God" is used in an extended sense referring to the Bible (as a book which contains promises of God and other information in written form) Word has a capital "W." But when quoting the actual passage referring to God's promises themselves, it has a small "w" - it may be confusing to some to see the difference. 

Storms  over  the  ocean....

Sunset in the Tatra mountains....

Beautiful  sunset.....

















Your  own  thoughts  are  the  BEST  by  these  wonderful  pictures.....   the  next  page  is  soon  coming !   I  hope,  you  enjoy  my  pictures  -  Thank  you  so  much !  

@b4ucuhear I was working today, what joy I have had to read your letter. Yes, Jehovah is my Stronghold! I grew up in the Truth, my Dad was an Elder, Congregation Servant over 65 years. My Mother worked as a Pioneer while he was in Danbury Prison for not going to the war. She used the phonograph at doors she loved the Truth. Her Father was Anointed and blessed the family greatly. My children, I had four raised in Truth, yet I was not allowed to say much due to abuse issue. I only could show by example. I'm blessed to have my youngest at Bethel, one and Elder, good man, another a MS Servant. My Daughter is a full time Pioneer and her Husband an Elder. I Thank Jehovah everyday I'm alive and can share and help all I can. Do to my injuries right now; handicapped, I hope to lift this from my cellular memory. These are wonderful scriptures I try to live by. At 6 years old I gave my first talk. So I love to teach, I do this about Jehovah as much as I can. I am an artist so enjoy using scriptures to encourage others. (A picture is worth a thousand words?) I also teach health and have given lectures over 40 years. The School is another Blessing from Jehovah. Thank you for keeping me happy and giving me more joy in my work. Jehovah has Blessed you also keep up the good works. I will leave you with some of my favorite scriptures I try to focus on and "the joy of Jehovah" continues with me.
8 "For if we live, we live to Jehovah,
and if we die, we die to Jehovah.
So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah." (Romans 14:8)

 8 ..."or the one who encourages,
 let him give encouragement;"
9 "Let your love be without hypocrisy."
Abhor what is wicked; cling to what is good."
10 "In brotherly love have tender affection for one another. In showing honor to one another, take the lead."
11 "Be industrious, not lazy."
Be aglow with the spirit.
Slave for Jehovah."
12 "Rejoice in the hope. Endure under tribulation. Persevere in prayer."
13 "Share with the holy ones according   to their needs.
Follow the course of hospitality."(I'm Greek!?)
 14 "Keep on blessing those who persecute; bless and do not curse."
15 "Rejoice with those who rejoice; weep with those who weep."
16 "Have the same attitude toward others as toward yourselves; do not set your mind on lofty things, but be led along with the lowly things.
Do not become wise in your own eyes."
17 "Return evil for evil to no one.
Take into consideration what is fine from the viewpoint of all men."
 18 If possible, as far as it depends on you, be peaceable with all men."
19 "Do not avenge yourselves, beloved, but yield place to the wrath; for it is written: “‘Vengeance is mine; I will repay,’ says Jehovah.”
 20 "But “if your enemy is hungry, feed him; if he is thirsty, give him something to drink; for by doing this you will heap fiery coals on his head.”
 21 "Do not let yourself be conquered by the evil, but keep conquering the evil with the good." ( Romans 12:8-21). 
May Jehovah continue also to give you joy and peace my Brother.                Agape, Bible Speaks ???

@Bible Speaks I am so happy to see you have endured. But not only endured, you have risen above the injustice and hardships you have experienced in order to be a source of encouragement and strength to your brothers and sisters - I really enjoy and appreciate your "Bible Speaks" posts and find them encouraging as well.  I know well "not believed at all" and "nothing was ever done." If you look in the Bible record, as you already know, some of our faithful brothers and sisters in times past saw justice soon afterwards. However, for others it took years or even decades. For others still, they did not see justice in their lifetimes. (1 Tim. 5:24) We do what we can and then as you properly mentioned, "leave things in Jehovah's hands." That doesn't always mean that Jehovah is slow in responding however. Since he doesn't force any shepherds to act appropriately in behalf of his sheep, at times the fault lies with men in authority who "don't want to get their hands dirty in order to keep Jehovah's organization clean" - the path of least resistance. Just remember, as was true in Job's case, "we are a spectacle to men and to angels." So even if no other human on earth is aware of you pain, your (and others') faithful example under trying times give a universal answer. One of my favourite scriptures to keep in mind is also one we all know well: "Be wise, my son (or daughter), and make my heart rejoice, So that I can make a reply to him who taunts me." Your faithfulness never goes unnoticed or unappreciated.

Job's faithful example in the face of hard-to-understand tests of faith to this day remains a remarkable and universal answer to Satan's charges regarding human integrity under test. I love this passage not only for Job's example, but for how much it is a source of strength and encouragement for those relatively few who face similar tests of faith in modern times. The thing that makes his integrity such a source of encouragement to me today is not the physical loss, pain and suffering he endured. Yes those things were bad, but those types of difficulties are also faced by humans in general - even those who don't believe in God. They face the loss of loved ones, loss of financial security, false friends... No, what is so special about Job's example and what made it especially trying was that he endured these things under the mistaken belief that he was receiving unjust "discipline from Jehovah."  And yet Job knew he was innocent.  This has a modern counterpart, although rare (as was Job's case). Today at times, faithful brothers/sisters have received what is described as "discipline from Jehovah," and when they proclaim their innocence, they are seen as proud, rebellious - not humbly accepting said discipline. Only one thing wrong: they are at times completely innocent. Of course, errors in judgment can be expected when you are dealing with imperfect humans who at times don't follow scriptural principles, have all the facts or the ability to miraculously read human hearts - or even when emotions come into play. However, Job's example becomes more poignant when Satan is really behind the lying charges, when the whole affair seems really to be an orchestrated machination of the Devil. At times, men administering this "discipline from Jehovah" have been outright lying to cover up serious wrongdoing of themselves or friends. When "wicked men and imposters" with authority manipulate/orchestrate an attack on innocent individuals in order to protect themselves, and these same men are said/believed to be representing Jehovah and administering discipline on his behalf while removing or even disfellowshipping individuals to silence them, it can appear as if Jehovah is "disciplining" them unfairly. Yes, believe it or not, these things happen at times within Jehovah's organization and I have been on committees that had to reinstate such innocent individuals who for years were disfellowshipped based on lies. True, very few of our brothers and sisters will face this level of corruption from "shining stars in Jesus' right hand." But for those that do, Job's example in the face of such hard-to-understand or even hard to believe tests of faith are a faith/life saver and we can be glad that our loving heavenly Father has had the foresight to include these and other examples for our benefit today - both in a general sense for most and in a very specific sense for a few. That makes personal study, prayer and meditation so critical at this late stage. Don't ever take it for granted. 

Job's faithful example in the face of hard-to-understand tests of faith to this day remains a remarkable and universal answer to Satan's charges regarding human integrity under test. I love this passage not only for Job's example, but for how much it is a source of strength and encouragement for those relatively few who face similar tests of faith in modern times. The thing that makes his integrity such a source of encouragement to me today is not the physical loss, pain and suffering he endured. Yes those things were bad, but those types of difficulties are also faced by humans in general - even those who don't believe in God. They face the loss of loved ones, loss of financial security, false friends... No, what is so special about Job's example and what made it especially trying was that he endured these things under the mistaken belief that he was receiving unjust "discipline from Jehovah."  And yet Job knew he was innocent.  This has a modern counterpart, although rare (as was Job's case). Today at times, faithful brothers/sisters have received what is described as "discipline from Jehovah," and when they proclaim their innocence, they are seen as proud, rebellious - not humbly accepting said discipline. Only one thing wrong: they are at times completely innocent. Of course, errors in judgment can be expected when you are dealing with imperfect humans who at times don't follow scriptural principles, have all the facts or the ability to miraculously read human hearts - or even when emotions come into play. However, Job's example becomes more poignant when Satan is really behind the lying charges, when the whole affair seems really to be an orchestrated machination of the Devil. At times, men administering this "discipline from Jehovah" have been outright lying to cover up serious wrongdoing of themselves or friends. When "wicked men and imposters" with authority manipulate/orchestrate an attack on innocent individuals in order to protect themselves, and these same men are said/believed to be representing Jehovah and administering discipline on his behalf while removing or even disfellowshipping individuals to silence them, it can appear as if Jehovah is "disciplining" them unfairly. Yes, believe it or not, these things happen at times within Jehovah's organization and I have been on committees that had to reinstate such innocent individuals who for years were disfellowshipped based on lies. True, very few of our brothers and sisters will face this level of corruption from "shining stars in Jesus' right hand." But for those that do, Job's example in the face of such hard-to-understand or even hard to believe tests of faith are a faith/life saver and we can be glad that our loving heavenly Father has had the foresight to include these and other examples for our benefit today - both in a general sense for most and in a very specific sense for a few. That makes personal study, prayer and meditation so critical at this late stage. Don't ever take it for granted. 

Job's faithful example in the face of hard-to-understand tests of faith to this day remains a remarkable and universal answer to Satan's charges regarding human integrity under test. I love this passage not only for Job's example, but for how much it is a source of strength and encouragement for those relatively few who face similar tests of faith in modern times. The thing that makes his integrity such a source of encouragement to me today is not the physical loss, pain and suffering he endured. Yes those things were bad, but those types of difficulties are also faced by humans in general - even those who don't believe in God. They face the loss of loved ones, loss of financial security, false friends... No, what is so special about Job's example and what made it especially trying was that he endured these things under the mistaken belief that he was receiving unjust "discipline from Jehovah."  And yet Job knew he was innocent.  This has a modern counterpart, although rare (as was Job's case). Today at times, faithful brothers/sisters have received what is described as "discipline from Jehovah," and when they proclaim their innocence, they are seen as proud, rebellious - not humbly accepting said discipline. Only one thing wrong: they are at times completely innocent. Of course, errors in judgment can be expected when you are dealing with imperfect humans who at times don't follow scriptural principles, have all the facts or the ability to miraculously read human hearts - or even when emotions come into play. However, Job's example becomes more poignant when Satan is really behind the lying charges, when the whole affair seems really to be an orchestrated machination of the Devil. At times, men administering this "discipline from Jehovah" have been outright lying to cover up serious wrongdoing of themselves or friends. When "wicked men and imposters" with authority manipulate/orchestrate an attack on innocent individuals in order to protect themselves, and these same men are said/believed to be representing Jehovah and administering discipline on his behalf while removing or even disfellowshipping individuals to silence them, it can appear as if Jehovah is "disciplining" them unfairly. Yes, believe it or not, these things happen at times within Jehovah's organization and I have been on committees that had to reinstate such innocent individuals who for years were disfellowshipped based on lies. True, very few of our brothers and sisters will face this level of corruption from "shining stars in Jesus' right hand." But for those that do, Job's example in the face of such hard-to-understand or even hard to believe tests of faith are a faith/life saver and we can be glad that our loving heavenly Father has had the foresight to include these and other examples for our benefit today - both in a general sense for most and in a very specific sense for a few. That makes personal study, prayer and meditation so critical at this late stage. Don't ever take it for granted. 

It would be hard to underestimate the value, relevance and importance of Romans 15:4, 5 as we advance farther into the time of the end. None of us should be taken by surprise or blindsided. We have been warned and prepared. Jehovah hasn't left us unequipped to deal with hardships and tests of faith from both the "outside" and from within his organization. These are real examples from real people and were preserved for our benefit today for a reason - (despite serious opposition to stop it). While most Israelites in general didn't experience the individual hardships and tests of faith that have been highlighted iand preserved in God's Word, some did back then and some do today - at least in a spiritual sense. Whatever our situation,these faithful examples provide us with the comfort and hope that with similar reliance and trust in Jehovah we also can endure to the end for salvation. 

It would be hard to underestimate the value, relevance and importance of Romans 15:4, 5 as we advance farther into the time of the end. None of us should be taken by surprise or blindsided. We have been warned and prepared. Jehovah hasn't left us unequipped to deal with hardships and tests of faith from both the "outside" and from within his organization. These are real examples from real people and were preserved for our benefit today for a reason - (despite serious opposition to stop it). While most Israelites in general didn't experience the individual hardships and tests of faith that have been highlighted iand preserved in God's Word, some did back then and some do today - at least in a spiritual sense. Whatever our situation,these faithful examples provide us with the comfort and hope that with similar reliance and trust in Jehovah we also can endure to the end for salvation. 

4 "For all the things that were written beforehand were written for our instruction, so that through our endurance and through the comfort from the Scriptures we might have hope."
5 Now may the God who supplies endurance and comfort grant you to have among yourselves the same mental attitude that Christ Jesus had,
6 so that unitedly you may with one voice glorify the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ." ( Romans 15:4) NWT 

Thank-you for your response it is encouraging to see others maintain their faith in the face of situations that may stumble most others. That is my world too. I totally agree that there are cases where direct evidence is not shareable. And of course few would experience these things themselves anyway and would have a hard to believing them - let alone deal with them. So why be too specific (at least they can tell themselves that it is something they read on the internet and is probably not true - and not be stumbled by what they can't rationalize).
I agree with your statements above and to be sure, I  have always done what was my moral obligation as to bringing attention to these matters directly and following the requirements set out both in God's Word and the clear instructions from the F&DS. Including applying Matthew 18 where appropriate. So in further reference to your very astute observation, I realized the blow back I would receive but have not been "...willing to dishonestly apologize and repent for speaking the truth." As Job stated: "It is unthinkable on my part that I should declare you men righteous! Until I expire I shall not take away my integrity from myself!"     I learned decades ago that once you have done your part, fulfilling your obligation before God to keep the congregation clean, the ball is in their court and you just have to leave matters in Jehovah's hands. Otherwise you may find yourself disfellowshipped.
To be clear, my intention is not to use a semi-anonymous forum to bring attention to mistakes, although that does happen. But when I was experiencing these things, there was no one who I could discuss my feelings with who would understand, let alone believe me - and I didn't want to go around talking about these decidedly negative matters. It is true to say that in some cases, it seemed the only ones I could really identify with were individuals like Jeremiah, Job, David, Joseph, Paul, Jesus...They became my "friends" in faith-testing times. Everyone else it seemed lived in a Disney World where these kinds of things can never happen because Jesus is micromanaging all the elders in his right hand -  and "The son of man will send his angels, and they will collect out from his Kingdom all "things" that cause stumbling and people who are doing lawlessness." (Matt. 13:41) But the reality is that people are stumbled. Does that mean the angels aren't doing their job properly? (In fact, our elder body had to reinstate one brother who was wrongly disfellowshipped for years - yet always maintaining his innocence. It appeared in proclaiming his innocence, he was "not accepting discipline from Jehovah" - but it was all a lie. That happens too often). What could be these "things" that are collected out? Is it individuals we hear about every few years being disfellowshipped? Could be, but "things" being collected out that have caused most people (billions) to stumble for thousands of years are things such as false religious doctrines and practices that dishonor and misrepresent God (hellfire,Trinity, immortal soul, Halloween, Christmas, justifiable warfare, nationalism...) Even if one were to suggest that the referencing of "people who practice lawlessness" is not the the apostate "man of lawlessness," it would still have to be taken within the context of 1Tim. 5;24,25 where some things are brought our sooner and others later. The Bible has many examples to support that and I appreciate your inclusion of that important scripture that helps explain why badness can go on for years, decades or some don't experience justice in their lifetime.
I also found 1 Cor. 11:17-19 informative (not the new Bible but the more literal Kingdom Interlinear - in fact pretty well all other translations) in it's use of "must" (dei) (it is binding; it is necessary; there have to be; ..."there "must" be also be sects among you, that the persons approved may also become manifest among you." In stating there "must" be sects/factions, God's Word isn't suggesting that Jehovah wants badness to happen or that it is part of his purpose. But rather that he allows these things to play out for the same reason he has allowed badness to exist even on a universal scale for a time: to manifest who is who. These types of situations are a revealer of hearts, motives, faith, attitudes...even of men in authority who are also accountable. And as Paul stated regarding himself and others: "...we have become a theatrical spectacle to the world, and to angels, and to men." That's what faithless men miss. They think that as long as they can fool men or control matters, they can get away with it. But faithful men recognize as true what you had quoted above in 1 Cor. 4:5 that secret things will be revealed.
While some may characterize these interchanges as negative talk, the fact is that pretending everything is rosy and nothing bad can ever happen (an exaggeration I know) and that everything men in authority do is by Jesus' direction is simply absurd in the face of plain facts. It is not "encouraging" at all. It's like telling someone in great pain with cancer how great everything is going for you and they must be imagining their situation or lying = not helpful. "Rejoice with people who rejoice; weep with people who weep." Romans 12:15. It is comforting I'm sure to any who have had to face a reality most others have not to have people care enough to offer wisdom, empathy, counsel and understanding in such a way as to help them maintain their faith despite extreme circumstances. 
I also appreciated the application you (JWI) made regarding 1 Cor. 4:5, that is an interesting perspective I had not actually considered. 
 
I totally agree with that. I've clearly seen that myself and so have many others (although few would want to say it out loud and at times there would be serious repercussions.) It seems to me that that later we get into the time of the end, the more people reveal who they are within the scope of time, pressure and opportunity. Of course, once again, these traits, although visible at times in the form of imperfection or even wickedness at times, don't characterize the majority of our brothers and sisters who are struggling to swim upstream in Satan's system, cope with their own imperfections, temptations and face the badness of others within. Still, it is there and it's only honest to acknowledge that it exists. After all, how can you protect yourself against something you believe doesn't exist or can never happen? It is good that Jehovah's Word gives us the warnings we need both in examples and in word for our protection. Romans 15:4: "For all the things that were written aforetime were written for out instruction, that through our endurance and through the comfort from the scriptures we might have hope."

I am a faithful believer and have "privileges" in the organization. I am also aware of things that most people are not aware of and wouldn't believe even if I told them. (And no, I don't come by this by way of apostate websites and such. I am there at ground zero with eyes on the ground, in first person testimony). These are the types of things that you will never read about in our publications - and for good reason. People would be stumbled - some things are just too outside their field of experience to rationalize within the context of their faith and they wouldn't thank you for knowing about it anyway because they don't want to know. (It would be like asking: "Can you tell me something that's going to kill me?") And yet, none of these things should come as a surprise. The Bible clearly warns us of "wicked men and imposters," men who would advance from bad to worse. Sometimes the things that happen are so "out there" that the only ones you would be able to identify with are faithful men described in God's Word who have experienced similar things that some of us experience in a spiritual sense today. Yes, some men in authority - "stars in Jesus' right hand" are not what they appear to be even though they may appear righteous to men and have a badge of authority. Of course, most people expect imperfection, but there are times when you have to call it what it is: wickedness. (I can't say whether that applies in the case referred to above here since I don't know all the facts and wasn't personally there - even though it looks bad). No, but as referenced above, we "shouldn't be too surprised considering the other kinds of hidden crimes that we already know about." I get elders asking me from all over the place about these things and I respond the best way I can, always honestly, but in a way that will help them maintain their faith in Jehovah and respect for his organization - with the proviso that sometimes that respect is for the authority men may have, but not for who they are. (i.e.. David's respect for Saul, even though Saul, using theocratic resources, was orchestrating a murderous campaign against a faithful servant of Jehovah that went on for years).  
 The short answer is that, our relationship and dedication to Jehovah God should never be dictated by the decisions other humans make, regardless of what "position" they have, or how much we may fell hurt by them. Even when that "position" is viewed by many as being righteous. Power can have a corrupting influence and when men aren't held to account quickly, they can become hardened to do bad. Especially when they have the authority to control matters to hide and protect themselves. To be clear I'm an not pointing or accusing the Governing Body as such - (although there have been some disturbing issues in the past), but rather pointing out the fact that there is no level within the Organization where corruption has not existed at one time or another. (in what year was corruption no longer allowed?  Not yet anyway...) It is also important not to paint with too wide a brush as if the whole organization was bad - based on the choices of a "relatively" few bad apples. When you think about the people you associate with at meetings, the ministry and at conventions, you see that most JW's are good at heart, happy, kind people who want to do what is right and please Jehovah despite their imperfections - just like we are. 

Thank-you for your response it is encouraging to see others maintain their faith in the face of situations that may stumble most others. That is my world too. I totally agree that there are cases where direct evidence is not shareable. And of course few would experience these things themselves anyway and would have a hard to believing them - let alone deal with them. So why be too specific (at least they can tell themselves that it is something they read on the internet and is probably not true - and not be stumbled by what they can't rationalize).
I agree with your statements above and to be sure, I  have always done what was my moral obligation as to bringing attention to these matters directly and following the requirements set out both in God's Word and the clear instructions from the F&DS. Including applying Matthew 18 where appropriate. So in further reference to your very astute observation, I realized the blow back I would receive but have not been "...willing to dishonestly apologize and repent for speaking the truth." As Job stated: "It is unthinkable on my part that I should declare you men righteous! Until I expire I shall not take away my integrity from myself!"     I learned decades ago that once you have done your part, fulfilling your obligation before God to keep the congregation clean, the ball is in their court and you just have to leave matters in Jehovah's hands. Otherwise you may find yourself disfellowshipped.
To be clear, my intention is not to use a semi-anonymous forum to bring attention to mistakes, although that does happen. But when I was experiencing these things, there was no one who I could discuss my feelings with who would understand, let alone believe me - and I didn't want to go around talking about these decidedly negative matters. It is true to say that in some cases, it seemed the only ones I could really identify with were individuals like Jeremiah, Job, David, Joseph, Paul, Jesus...They became my "friends" in faith-testing times. Everyone else it seemed lived in a Disney World where these kinds of things can never happen because Jesus is micromanaging all the elders in his right hand -  and "The son of man will send his angels, and they will collect out from his Kingdom all "things" that cause stumbling and people who are doing lawlessness." (Matt. 13:41) But the reality is that people are stumbled. Does that mean the angels aren't doing their job properly? (In fact, our elder body had to reinstate one brother who was wrongly disfellowshipped for years - yet always maintaining his innocence. It appeared in proclaiming his innocence, he was "not accepting discipline from Jehovah" - but it was all a lie. That happens too often). What could be these "things" that are collected out? Is it individuals we hear about every few years being disfellowshipped? Could be, but "things" being collected out that have caused most people (billions) to stumble for thousands of years are things such as false religious doctrines and practices that dishonor and misrepresent God (hellfire,Trinity, immortal soul, Halloween, Christmas, justifiable warfare, nationalism...) Even if one were to suggest that the referencing of "people who practice lawlessness" is not the the apostate "man of lawlessness," it would still have to be taken within the context of 1Tim. 5;24,25 where some things are brought our sooner and others later. The Bible has many examples to support that and I appreciate your inclusion of that important scripture that helps explain why badness can go on for years, decades or some don't experience justice in their lifetime.
I also found 1 Cor. 11:17-19 informative (not the new Bible but the more literal Kingdom Interlinear - in fact pretty well all other translations) in it's use of "must" (dei) (it is binding; it is necessary; there have to be; ..."there "must" be also be sects among you, that the persons approved may also become manifest among you." In stating there "must" be sects/factions, God's Word isn't suggesting that Jehovah wants badness to happen or that it is part of his purpose. But rather that he allows these things to play out for the same reason he has allowed badness to exist even on a universal scale for a time: to manifest who is who. These types of situations are a revealer of hearts, motives, faith, attitudes...even of men in authority who are also accountable. And as Paul stated regarding himself and others: "...we have become a theatrical spectacle to the world, and to angels, and to men." That's what faithless men miss. They think that as long as they can fool men or control matters, they can get away with it. But faithful men recognize as true what you had quoted above in 1 Cor. 4:5 that secret things will be revealed.
While some may characterize these interchanges as negative talk, the fact is that pretending everything is rosy and nothing bad can ever happen (an exaggeration I know) and that everything men in authority do is by Jesus' direction is simply absurd in the face of plain facts. It is not "encouraging" at all. It's like telling someone in great pain with cancer how great everything is going for you and they must be imagining their situation or lying = not helpful. "Rejoice with people who rejoice; weep with people who weep." Romans 12:15. It is comforting I'm sure to any who have had to face a reality most others have not to have people care enough to offer wisdom, empathy, counsel and understanding in such a way as to help them maintain their faith despite extreme circumstances. 
I also appreciated the application you (JWI) made regarding 1 Cor. 4:5, that is an interesting perspective I had not actually considered. 
 
I totally agree with that. I've clearly seen that myself and so have many others (although few would want to say it out loud and at times there would be serious repercussions.) It seems to me that that later we get into the time of the end, the more people reveal who they are within the scope of time, pressure and opportunity. Of course, once again, these traits, although visible at times in the form of imperfection or even wickedness at times, don't characterize the majority of our brothers and sisters who are struggling to swim upstream in Satan's system, cope with their own imperfections, temptations and face the badness of others within. Still, it is there and it's only honest to acknowledge that it exists. After all, how can you protect yourself against something you believe doesn't exist or can never happen? It is good that Jehovah's Word gives us the warnings we need both in examples and in word for our protection. Romans 15:4: "For all the things that were written aforetime were written for out instruction, that through our endurance and through the comfort from the scriptures we might have hope."

I still remember days when divorce between brothers, fraud between brothers… were so strange. Sadly, nowadays the things are changed. No one should be surprised. As mentioned above, the situation in the seven congregations of Revelation were all less pleasant. With only few exceptions. 
Now, regarding the condition of the Christians, true Christians, in the last days:
(2Ti 2:16-26) […] “for they will lead to more and more ungodliness, 17 and their word will spread like gangrene. Hy·me·naeʹus and Phi·leʹtus are among them.+ 18 These men have deviated from the truth, saying that the resurrection has already occurred,+ and they are subverting the faith of some. […] 20 Now in a large housethere are utensils* not only of gold and silver but also of wood and earthenware, and some for an honorable use but others for a use lacking honor. 21 So if anyone keeps clear of the latter ones, he will be an instrument* for an honorable use, sanctified, useful to his owner, prepared for every good work. […] 25 instructing with mildness those not favorably disposed"
Was Paul advising Timothy about problems he will face with people outside or inside the congregation? WereHymenaeus and Philetus worldly persons or vessels lacking of honor in the congregations? I suppose nobody will find it difficult the answer.
Now the problem. The division in chapters. It seems that chapter three starts a new discussion. With wich base? The uninspired numeric division? Our habit in applying these words to world conditions?
Let’s focus now in the famous chapter 3:1-13
But know this, that in the last days+ critical times hard to deal with will be here. 2 For men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, haughty, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, disloyal, 3 having no natural affection, not open to any agreement, slanderers, without self-control, fierce, without love of goodness, 4 betrayers, headstrong, puffed up with pride, lovers of pleasures rather than lovers of God, 5 having an appearance of godliness but proving false to its power;+ and from these turn away.  
13 But wicked men and impostors will advance from bad to worse, misleading and being misled.+
One simple question. Who did Timothy need to turn away from (v.5)? From unbeliever neighbors? In reality, Paul was still speaking about the lack of honor ‘utensils’INSIDE the congregations.
I’m completely optimistic regarding the final result of the future events. But I believe we’re facing trouble times. And I’m not only talking about Gog’s attack.
 

I have less time lately to participate. Perhaps this night. The issues in this topic realy make feel sad, because the news are regarding my country, and I personally know some of the brothers on jail. 
EDIT '[I'm not using my normal PC, the persons I know were mentioned in other post about Spain, this that mention brothers on responsability on the Supreme Court in Spain]
At this time I only wish to point out my confidence in that this is Jehocah's people. But, why are we sure all the refination happenned in 1918? What if the "best is to come"?
Why have we applied 2Tim 3:1-5 to worldy people, when the context is with no doubt talking about situations INSIDE the congregation? In this way, when I know about this bad news in the congregations I see more proof we are living in the last days!

I'm sure I am not the only one who appreciates your attitude toward these types of things, things we may witness first hand, but which cannot be shared. I believe I have been where you are, and I can share some of the scriptural points that have helped me.
If we are concerned to do our best to help keep the local and the world-wide congregation clean, there are cases where direct evidence is not shareable.  We often must focus on general principles or even "lesser" issues or different issues, which may only be similar in their effect or the way in which they show that corruption can be insidious or reach to surprising levels of authority.
I have no idea how it happens, in your case, that elders from all over the place might be asking you about a specific situation. This tells me that whatever the problems, they might have already been sufficiently exposed - as far as it depends upon you.
(Ephesians 5:10-13) 10 Keep on making sure of what is acceptable to the Lord; 11 and stop sharing in the unfruitful works that belong to the darkness; rather, expose them for what they are. 12 For the things they do in secret are shameful even to mention. 13 Now all the things that are being exposed are made evident by the light, for everything that is being made evident is light.
Of course, I have no idea if it is sufficient to follow the Bible's counsel to expose by trying to bring attention to mistakes in a semi-anonymous forum, with a random audience of readers. I'm sure it's not sufficient for my own conscience. But I also realize that if I were to speak out in the congregation itself, I would lose not only privileges, which matter very little in the long run, but would also lose all further opportunities for fellowship with the brotherhood -- that is, unless I was also willing to dishonestly apologize and repent  for speaking the truth.
To the extent possible, I believe that we need to address issues first with the person(s) responsible for the wrongdoing, especially in light of Matthew 18, when we are a party or direct witness to the wrongdoing. If he doesn't listen then we take it to the congregation, whether the global congregation or the local congregation, whichever is more appropriate. Then there comes a point when you might realize you have done all you can. "As far as it depends upon you...."
(1 Timothy 5:24, 25) 24 The sins of some men are publicly known, leading directly to judgment, but those of other men become evident later. 25 In the same way also, the fine works are publicly known and those that are otherwise cannot be kept hidden.
Some Witnesses keep things hidden only for the short-term reputation of the congregation, but this does nothing for both the short-term and the long-term protection of the congregation. If there is any question or doubt about whether an issue needs to be exposed, however, we can apply what Paul said here:
(1 Corinthians 4:5) 5 Therefore, do not judge anything before the due time, until the Lord comes. He will bring the secret things of darkness to light and make known the intentions of the hearts, and then each one will receive his praise from God.
We need not carry a burden of guilt that we did not personally expose something, or bring it to light. We can throw such burdens on Jehovah.

I am a faithful believer and have "privileges" in the organization. I am also aware of things that most people are not aware of and wouldn't believe even if I told them. (And no, I don't come by this by way of apostate websites and such. I am there at ground zero with eyes on the ground, in first person testimony). These are the types of things that you will never read about in our publications - and for good reason. People would be stumbled - some things are just too outside their field of experience to rationalize within the context of their faith and they wouldn't thank you for knowing about it anyway because they don't want to know. (It would be like asking: "Can you tell me something that's going to kill me?") And yet, none of these things should come as a surprise. The Bible clearly warns us of "wicked men and imposters," men who would advance from bad to worse. Sometimes the things that happen are so "out there" that the only ones you would be able to identify with are faithful men described in God's Word who have experienced similar things that some of us experience in a spiritual sense today. Yes, some men in authority - "stars in Jesus' right hand" are not what they appear to be even though they may appear righteous to men and have a badge of authority. Of course, most people expect imperfection, but there are times when you have to call it what it is: wickedness. (I can't say whether that applies in the case referred to above here since I don't know all the facts and wasn't personally there - even though it looks bad). No, but as referenced above, we "shouldn't be too surprised considering the other kinds of hidden crimes that we already know about." I get elders asking me from all over the place about these things and I respond the best way I can, always honestly, but in a way that will help them maintain their faith in Jehovah and respect for his organization - with the proviso that sometimes that respect is for the authority men may have, but not for who they are. (i.e.. David's respect for Saul, even though Saul, using theocratic resources, was orchestrating a murderous campaign against a faithful servant of Jehovah that went on for years).  
 The short answer is that, our relationship and dedication to Jehovah God should never be dictated by the decisions other humans make, regardless of what "position" they have, or how much we may fell hurt by them. Even when that "position" is viewed by many as being righteous. Power can have a corrupting influence and when men aren't held to account quickly, they can become hardened to do bad. Especially when they have the authority to control matters to hide and protect themselves. To be clear I'm an not pointing or accusing the Governing Body as such - (although there have been some disturbing issues in the past), but rather pointing out the fact that there is no level within the Organization where corruption has not existed at one time or another. (in what year was corruption no longer allowed?  Not yet anyway...) It is also important not to paint with too wide a brush as if the whole organization was bad - based on the choices of a "relatively" few bad apples. When you think about the people you associate with at meetings, the ministry and at conventions, you see that most JW's are good at heart, happy, kind people who want to do what is right and please Jehovah despite their imperfections - just like we are. 

I am a faithful believer and have "privileges" in the organization. I am also aware of things that most people are not aware of and wouldn't believe even if I told them. (And no, I don't come by this by way of apostate websites and such. I am there at ground zero with eyes on the ground, in first person testimony). These are the types of things that you will never read about in our publications - and for good reason. People would be stumbled - some things are just too outside their field of experience to rationalize within the context of their faith and they wouldn't thank you for knowing about it anyway because they don't want to know. (It would be like asking: "Can you tell me something that's going to kill me?") And yet, none of these things should come as a surprise. The Bible clearly warns us of "wicked men and imposters," men who would advance from bad to worse. Sometimes the things that happen are so "out there" that the only ones you would be able to identify with are faithful men described in God's Word who have experienced similar things that some of us experience in a spiritual sense today. Yes, some men in authority - "stars in Jesus' right hand" are not what they appear to be even though they may appear righteous to men and have a badge of authority. Of course, most people expect imperfection, but there are times when you have to call it what it is: wickedness. (I can't say whether that applies in the case referred to above here since I don't know all the facts and wasn't personally there - even though it looks bad). No, but as referenced above, we "shouldn't be too surprised considering the other kinds of hidden crimes that we already know about." I get elders asking me from all over the place about these things and I respond the best way I can, always honestly, but in a way that will help them maintain their faith in Jehovah and respect for his organization - with the proviso that sometimes that respect is for the authority men may have, but not for who they are. (i.e.. David's respect for Saul, even though Saul, using theocratic resources, was orchestrating a murderous campaign against a faithful servant of Jehovah that went on for years).  
 The short answer is that, our relationship and dedication to Jehovah God should never be dictated by the decisions other humans make, regardless of what "position" they have, or how much we may fell hurt by them. Even when that "position" is viewed by many as being righteous. Power can have a corrupting influence and when men aren't held to account quickly, they can become hardened to do bad. Especially when they have the authority to control matters to hide and protect themselves. To be clear I'm an not pointing or accusing the Governing Body as such - (although there have been some disturbing issues in the past), but rather pointing out the fact that there is no level within the Organization where corruption has not existed at one time or another. (in what year was corruption no longer allowed?  Not yet anyway...) It is also important not to paint with too wide a brush as if the whole organization was bad - based on the choices of a "relatively" few bad apples. When you think about the people you associate with at meetings, the ministry and at conventions, you see that most JW's are good at heart, happy, kind people who want to do what is right and please Jehovah despite their imperfections - just like we are. 

I am a faithful believer and have "privileges" in the organization. I am also aware of things that most people are not aware of and wouldn't believe even if I told them. (And no, I don't come by this by way of apostate websites and such. I am there at ground zero with eyes on the ground, in first person testimony). These are the types of things that you will never read about in our publications - and for good reason. People would be stumbled - some things are just too outside their field of experience to rationalize within the context of their faith and they wouldn't thank you for knowing about it anyway because they don't want to know. (It would be like asking: "Can you tell me something that's going to kill me?") And yet, none of these things should come as a surprise. The Bible clearly warns us of "wicked men and imposters," men who would advance from bad to worse. Sometimes the things that happen are so "out there" that the only ones you would be able to identify with are faithful men described in God's Word who have experienced similar things that some of us experience in a spiritual sense today. Yes, some men in authority - "stars in Jesus' right hand" are not what they appear to be even though they may appear righteous to men and have a badge of authority. Of course, most people expect imperfection, but there are times when you have to call it what it is: wickedness. (I can't say whether that applies in the case referred to above here since I don't know all the facts and wasn't personally there - even though it looks bad). No, but as referenced above, we "shouldn't be too surprised considering the other kinds of hidden crimes that we already know about." I get elders asking me from all over the place about these things and I respond the best way I can, always honestly, but in a way that will help them maintain their faith in Jehovah and respect for his organization - with the proviso that sometimes that respect is for the authority men may have, but not for who they are. (i.e.. David's respect for Saul, even though Saul, using theocratic resources, was orchestrating a murderous campaign against a faithful servant of Jehovah that went on for years).  
 The short answer is that, our relationship and dedication to Jehovah God should never be dictated by the decisions other humans make, regardless of what "position" they have, or how much we may fell hurt by them. Even when that "position" is viewed by many as being righteous. Power can have a corrupting influence and when men aren't held to account quickly, they can become hardened to do bad. Especially when they have the authority to control matters to hide and protect themselves. To be clear I'm an not pointing or accusing the Governing Body as such - (although there have been some disturbing issues in the past), but rather pointing out the fact that there is no level within the Organization where corruption has not existed at one time or another. (in what year was corruption no longer allowed?  Not yet anyway...) It is also important not to paint with too wide a brush as if the whole organization was bad - based on the choices of a "relatively" few bad apples. When you think about the people you associate with at meetings, the ministry and at conventions, you see that most JW's are good at heart, happy, kind people who want to do what is right and please Jehovah despite their imperfections - just like we are. 

This was supposed to be a light-hearted, humorous 'Caption this pic' thread.
INTREPID TRAVELLER (and others): The child abuse issue is too weighty to have it piggy-backing on a fun thread. I know you have posted elsewhere on the forum about it with those links. Wouldn't it be best to discuss this on a separate thread?
Meanwhile ....
"Bu... *sniff, sob* ... b..ut I want to be a spaceman when I grow up!"

The question is not whether or not child sexual abuse has occurred among Jehovah's people. Of course it has. We are people, and child sexual abuse is viral today - it is everywhere and seemingly uncontrollable. What I address is the pleading hope of opposers to paint JWs as a hotbed of abusers. It's a ridiculous charge, and they know better, for they are not overly stupid. But their primary concern is to take down a religion they hate. Elsewhere I have written of the backdrop that must be considered when reading any story of pedophilia involving any group.

Apparently that is more in line with the redress scheme the government is now suggesting with the ongoing investigations. Let's see, $150 thousand times 1,000 child molestation cases attributed to our organization in Australia alone, would be what, $150 million? Still, $150 thousand per is still better than us having to pay millions per as in some cases elsewhere. I am interested to see how forthcoming with the truth and redress we will be in comparison with the Catholic Church. I appreciate the direction we are taking as an organization in other areas such as our unity, the preaching work, our spiritual instruction...But I feel that both transparency and honesty to the faithful has been lacking as to child molestation cases. Are the ones making these claims really all  just "apostates and liars?" Naturally, we shouldn't give any attention to apostates and liars. Problem is they are not all just apostates and liars after all. It concerns me now when I see how our own confidential records are being used as evidence against us and costing us millions of dollars of funds donated for the preaching work. Still, it would not be fair to judge the whole organization based on this sordid stuff. ( I don't even judge the Catholic Church based on their problem with it either - I have enough other reasons for my disagreement

I would say, those who you call an "evil Save" seem to be doing a pretty good job of providing spiritual food. The WT - Announcing Jehovah's Kingdom, is at no. 1 for the most widely distributed magazine in the world, the Awake is at no. 2, and JW.org is at no.1 for the most translated website in the world. All this achieved through volunteer work. And just in case you have some comments about Satan being in charge of that, then be aware that the Bible is at no.1 for the most widely distributed book in the world. Kind of cool, the Bible at no.1, a magazine announcing God's Kingdom at no. 1, and a website announcing God's Kingdom in most languages at no.1.
As for people leaving the organization and then choosing the right road is kind of complicated don't you think? I would have though that people leaving Babylon the Great would be sufficient. Or are there multiple evil slaves?
 

I will tell you how I understand it. In context, it seems that what was meant by "direction" was not necessarily of doctrinal nature, although I must admit it could be viewed that way. But Br. Jackson was talking about directions given to the branch office in Australia, regarding matters of Child abuse. He was asked whether branch offices were able to act autonomously, to which the reply was no. It seems he was implying that if some direction was un-scriptural, it would be noticed, but not necessarily voiced. 
I believe this too, and I trust the GB does as well, as they view themselves as the domestics too.
Going back to your original subject "who really is the faithful and discreet slave", is it all of us, feeding each other? It is to a degree, but at the outset, how would we have known what, when and how to feed? Would we all do this as we saw fit? According to our own personal interpretation or opinion? The present day "Bible Students" do this. They believe it is their "freedom in Christ" that allows for differing views on doctrinal matters. But where is the truth? Where is order? Aren't truth and order important to Jehovah? Wouldn't we all just end up like Christendom, and each of us join the denomination that most appealed to us? What about the preaching? In my mind, it is nothing short of a miracle that we function the way we do, all on voluntary work, headed by a bunch of imperfect men in Warwick. I just posted earlier in a reply to Witness, that our Magazines rank no.1 and 2 in the world in distribution, and that our website ranks no. 1 as the most translated website, by far. Is this a coincidence? Of course Witness has a different answer to that, which was to be expected, but really, looking at it objectively, shouldn't one expect that God's word, and publications and websites directing people to God's word and advertising God's Kingdom would be the most widely distributed and translated in the world? So we, inclusive of the GB, must be doing something right.