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Who Really is the Faithful and Discreet Slave? And why did Jesus mention "everyone" in the parable?

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Usually when we refer to the "faithful and discreet slave" parable, we refer to the parable of 'the faithful and the unfaithful slave' found in Matthew 24:45-51. But the parable of the "faithful and discreet slave" is also found in Luke, where the expression is changed a bit to "the faithful steward, the discreet one . . . that slave."

(Luke 12:42-48) 42 And the Lord said: “Who really is the faithful steward, the discreet one, whom his master will appoint over his body of attendants to keep giving them their measure of food supplies at the proper time? 43 Happy is that slave if his master on coming finds him doing so! 44 I tell you truthfully, he will appoint him over all his belongings. 45 But if ever that slave should say in his heart, ‘My master delays coming,’ and starts to beat the male and female servants and to eat and drink and get drunk, 46 the master of that slave will come on a day that he is not expecting him and at an hour that he does not know, and he will punish him with the greatest severity and assign him a part with the unfaithful ones. 47 Then that slave who understood the will of his master but did not get ready or do what he asked will be beaten with many strokes. 48 But the one who did not understand and yet did things deserving of strokes will be beaten with few. Indeed, everyone to whom much was given, much will be demanded of him, and the one who was put in charge of much will have more than usual demanded of him.

"That slave" is given an assignment to feed the master's "body of attendants." If he obeys, he gets a promotion, and if he disobeys he is punished. This is the exact same idea as in Matthew 24, except that there are only about 15 words referring what happens if this slave obeys and 150 words in the section about what happens if the slave disobeys. That's about 10 times as much space given to the idea of disobedience versus obedience. In Matthew it's only about 3 times as much space given to the idea of disobedience.

That might explain why the verses in Matthew are referenced so much more often in Watch Tower publications and speech. The Watchtower has, of course, minimized the idea of any potential disobedience:

*** w13 7/15 p. 24 “Who Really Is the Faithful and Discreet Slave?” ***
Was Jesus foretelling that there would be an evil slave class in the last days? No. Granted, some individuals have manifested a spirit similar to that of the evil slave described by Jesus. We would call them apostates, whether they were of the anointed or of the “great crowd.” (Rev. 7:9) But such ones do not make up an evil slave class. Jesus did not say that he would appoint an evil slave. His words here are actually a warning directed to the faithful and discreet slave.
  Notice that Jesus introduces the warning with the words “if ever.” One scholar says that in the Greek text, this passage “for all practical purposes is a hypothetical condition.”

This is an adjustment to the doctrine held just up until the change in 2013. Prior to the quote above (originally presented at the Annual Meeting in 2012) the idea about the evil slave was just the opposite: that the "evil slave" came directly from the ranks of the "faithful slave."

*** w04 3/1 p. 13 pars. 2-4 ‘The Faithful Slave’ Passes the Test! ***
The expression “that evil slave” draws our attention to Jesus’ preceding words about the faithful and discreet slave. Yes, the “evil slave” came from the ranks of the faithful slave. How?
3 Before 1914, many members of the faithful slave class had high hopes of meeting with the Bridegroom in heaven that year, but their hopes were not fulfilled. As a result of this and other developments, many were disappointed and a few became embittered. Some of these turned to ‘beating’ their former brothers verbally and consorting with “confirmed drunkards,” religious groups of Christendom.—Isaiah 28:1-3; 32:6.
4 These former Christians came to be identified as the “evil slave,” and Jesus punished them with “the greatest severity.” How? He rejected them, and they lost out on their heavenly hope. They were not, however, immediately destroyed. They first had to endure a period of weeping and gnashing of teeth in “the darkness outside” the Christian congregation. (Matthew 8:12) Since those early days, a few other anointed individuals have shown a similar bad spirit, identifying themselves with the “evil slave.” Some of the “other sheep” have imitated their unfaithfulness. (John 10:16)

Now, of course, the "faithful slave" is made to be the equivalent of the Governing Body since 1919. (The Governing Body has only existed in its current form since the early to mid-1970's.) For this reason, evidently, it would no longer be appropriate to consider or expect that the evil slave might come from the ranks of the Governing Body. Continuing this teaching would likely create a measure of suspicion and questioning of the Governing Body themselves.

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3 minutes ago, JW Insider said:

Indeed, everyone to whom much was given, much will be demanded of him, and the one who was put in charge of much will have more than usual demanded of him.

Something very interesting about the parable is the reference to the term "everyone," here. It's obvious that Jesus often used illustrations (parables, allegories, and analogies) in which a single person or small group of persons actually represented a larger group, sometimes everyone, or at least all Christians. But what was usually important in the illustrations was not the actual specific activity that the person or persons engaged in, but their attitude and response toward a particular situation. Usually Jesus was pointing out an attitude that should be true of all Christians, such as patience, loyalty, humility, persistence in prayer, watchfulness, mercy, faithfulness,forgiveness, etc.

  1. For example, Jesus gave a parable of a tax collector and Pharisee in Luke 9:10-14. He wasn't making a prophecy that there would someday exist a "tax collector class" of Christians that would begin existing in 1919, for example. He wasn't saying that Christians should follow the example of tax collectors either. The importance of the illustration is that the tax collector was blessed for being humble and recognizing how unworthy he was, as opposed to the Pharisee who claimed to be different and more worthy than the tax collector.
  2. Another example was when Jesus gave a parable comparing the response of three different men to a robbery victim who was injured and left on the side of the road. Jesus was not prophesying that there would be a Samaritan class, and a Levite class, or an innkeeper class, or that the road had a certain meaning. (The WTS taught this for many years, but has changed that teaching.) The important thing was how a proper and generous response to someone in need showed who had really made himself "a neighbor" of the victim.
    • Obviously, even though Jesus gave this "moral of the story" to one particular person, the meaning is true for all, and especially for Christians: (Luke 10:36, 37) 36 Who of these three seems to you to have made himself neighbor to the man who fell victim to the robbers?” 37 He said: “The one who acted mercifully toward him.” Jesus then said to him: “Go and do the same yourself.
    • ”Note, too, that the illustration was given to answer the question: (Luke 10:29) “Who really is my neighbor?” which reminds us of "Who really is a faithful and discreet slave? and "Who is an unfaithful servant?" Other illustrations were used in order to answer similar questions, such as: “Who really is greatest in the Kingdom of the heavens?” and the answer was that it was "whoever" became like a small child in terms of their humility. "Therefore, whoever will humble himself like this young child is the one who is the greatest in the Kingdom of the heavens." (Matthew 18:1-6)
  3. Another example is the parable about a slave who defrauded his master when he knew he was about to be fired. (Luke 16:1-13) The illustration was given because it gave Jesus' followers an interesting insight into their own attitude toward money and "unrighteous riches," and Jesus therefore created an analogy about how Christians should put a different kind of value on riches than what the world does. Jesus was not prophesying that there should be a "defrauding" class of Christians that would appear sometime around 1919, and Jesus, again, was surely not promoting that Christians should defraud their work masters.
    • Note that this was another illustration about a "discreet slave:" (Luke 16:8) "And his master commended the steward, though unrighteous, because he acted discreetly." [New World Translation, footnote];
  4. Many more possible examples exist, but one of the most famous is the parable about the difference between the way two sons manage their father's inheritance. One son is loyal and continues to work in the father's fields. The other son wastes the money away in a life of debauchery and shame. (Luke 15:11-32) When the debauched and destitute son returns to the father, he is celebrated, much to the consternation of the loyal and stable son. Again, this is not a prophecy about two different classes of Christians that would make their first appearances between 1919 and 1935. (The Watchtower taught for many years that this was the case, but has recently changed that teaching.) Jesus is not teaching us that it is better to return from a life a debauchery than to remain loyal and stable in the master's service. These were merely situations appropriate, not because of the specific activities described, but because of the attitudes and responses to those situations.

So this could makes us think again about the parable of the faithful and unfaithful slaves in Matthew 24 and Luke 12. There is no specific Bible basis for saying that this was a prophecy about a person or a group or groups of people who would make their first appearance around 1919. Jesus was not saying that all Christians would serve food to his body of attendants. Nor is there anything in the parable that tells us that the food here refers to spiritual food. Just like the parable of the Samaritan, there is no Bible basis for saying that the money the Samaritan gave to the innkeeper had some spiritual meaning. The important point is the appropriate attitude. We are "stewards" of Christ and Christianity and the important thing in a steward is to be found faithful.

(1 Corinthians 4:2) 2 Besides, in this case, what is looked for in stewards is for a man to be found faithful.

(1 Peter 4:10) 10 To the extent that each one has received a gift, use it in ministering to one another as fine stewards of God’s undeserved kindness that is expressed in various ways.


In past discussions, the idea has been brought up that there is nothing wrong with identifying persons who will use their particular gifts or ministries to take the lead and to teach, and this is still appropriate in congregations of any size, including the "world-wide congregation" as long as that lead is not intended as a way of creating a kind of tribunal or to create governors of our faith. For practical reasons, to keep peace in a congregation, there is always a need for some to take the lead and some to serve as shepherds. In a teaching ministry such as we strive for among Jehovah's Witnesses, we would expect some to focus on making sure that we can speak in agreement by looking closely at our teaching. 

That doesn't change the fact that Jesus was giving illustrations in Matthew 24 for all Christians to be on the watch, and for all Christians to watch their attitude as servants who have been given a serious responsibility.

All of us should ask the same question that Peter asked:

(Luke 12:41-48) 41 Then Peter said: “Lord, are you telling this illustration just to us or also to everyone?” 42 And the Lord said: “Who really is the faithful steward, the discreet one, whom his master will appoint over his body of attendants to keep giving them their measure of food supplies at the proper time? . . .  Indeed, everyone to whom much was given, much will be demanded of him, and the one who was put in charge of much will have more than usual demanded of him.

 

 

 

 

 

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On 12/25/2016 at 0:32 PM, JW Insider said:

Now, of course, the "faithful slave" is made to be the equivalent of the Governing Body since 1919. (The Governing Body has only existed in its current form since the early to mid-1970's.) For this reason, evidently, it would no longer be appropriate to consider or expect that the evil slave might come from the ranks of the Governing Body. Continuing this teaching would likely create a measure of suspicion and questioning of the Governing Body themselves.

I can understand why we thought that the evil slave came from the ranks of the faithful slave. At first glance the scripture does suggest that this could happen, so then when the schism came after Russell’s  death, that became a logical conclusion. And then with the apostasy in the early 80’s at Bethel, the scripture could be applicable again.  

I can also get the new understanding as per WT 2013. In fact, in my mind, it places even more responsibility on the GB/Slave asHis words here are actually a warning directed to the faithful and discreet slave”. For that reason I do not feel this “new” teaching is trying to somehow avoid the potential for suspicion or questioning the GB. In fact it is saying that theoretically it is possible, albeit not realistic. I know that sounds like an oxymoron, but if the whole of the GB/slave became apostate, that would defeat the purpose of the role Jesus assigned the GB/slave in the first place. Although of course if that did happen, Jesus would find a way around that. But why complicate things, instead, going back to what I mentioned earlier, it is a grave warning to the GB/Slave. I think that makes more sense.

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5 hours ago, JW Insider said:

the idea has been brought up that there is nothing wrong with identifying persons who will use their particular gifts or ministries to take the lead and to teach, and this is still appropriate in congregations of any size, including the "world-wide congregation" as long as that lead is not intended as a way of creating a kind of tribunal or to create governors of our faith. For practical reasons, to keep peace in a congregation, there is always a need for some to take the lead and some to serve as shepherds. In a teaching ministry such as we strive for among Jehovah's Witnesses, we would expect some to focus on making sure that we can speak in agreement by looking closely at our teaching. 

So it would seem logical that there should be a "ruling" body at the center. Do you consider "guardians of the doctrine" (as you know, a quote from G. Jackson) the same as "governors of our faith"?

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15 hours ago, Anna said:

So it would seem logical that there should be a "ruling" body at the center. Do you consider "guardians of the doctrine" (as you know, a quote from G. Jackson) the same as "governors of our faith"?

Biblically, there can be no such thing as a "Governing Body" of the Christian congregation itself.The term "Governing Body" is a traditional, secular term that derives from legal corporations, just like the terms "board of directors," "proxy voting," "officers," "shareholders." The position corresponding to that kind of "head" of the congregation is already defined in the Bible as Jesus Christ himself, shared with no one else. Joseph Rutherford, a lawyer, was very fond of replacing religious terms with secular terms, and he called each congregation a "company" and called Jesus the "Chief Executive Officer." These are only two of at least a dozen such terms he used.

(Galatians 3:23-25) 23 However, before the faith arrived, we were being guarded under law, being handed over into custody, looking to the faith that was about to be revealed. 24 So the Law became our guardian leading to Christ, so that we might be declared righteous through faith. 25 But now that the faith has arrived, we are no longer under a guardian.

Paul used the first two chapters of Galatians to show the dangers of looking to a group of well-respected men as a "governing body" and he explains clearly why he rejected the concept. Paul was also consistent elsewhere, of course, on this topic. I think Paul's longest dissertation (outside Galatians) against a human "governing body" was in 1 Corinthians. I think it is also the perfect backdrop for how we should understand the verses in Hebrews that are often made use of to defend the idea of a governing body: (Hebrews 13:7) "Remember those who are taking the lead among you, who have spoken the word of God to you, and as you contemplate how their conduct turns out, imitate their faith."

The passage is long, so I'll just highlight a few of the verses here that seem relevant:

(1 Corinthians 2:15-4:17) 15 However, the spiritual man examines all things, but he himself is not examined by any man. 16 For “who has come to know the mind of Jehovah, so that he may instruct him?” But we do have the mind of Christ. . . . 3 for you are still fleshly. . . .  4 For when one says, “I belong to Paul,” but another says, “I to A·polʹlos,” are you not acting like mere men? 5 What, then, is A·polʹlos? Yes, what is Paul? Ministers through whom you became believers, just as the Lord granted each one. 6 I planted, A·polʹlos watered, but God kept making it grow, 7 so that neither is the one who plants anything nor is the one who waters, but God who makes it grow. . . .  You are God’s field under cultivation, God’s building. , , , But let each one keep watching how he is building on it. 11 For no one can lay any other foundation than what is laid, which is Jesus Christ. . . . 16 Do you not know that you yourselves are God’s temple and that the spirit of God dwells in you? . . . 20 And again: “Jehovah knows that the reasonings of the wise men are futile.” 21 So let no one boast in men; for all things belong to you, 22 whether Paul or A·polʹlos or Ceʹphas or the world or life or death or things now here or things to come, all things belong to you; 23 in turn you belong to Christ; Christ, in turn, belongs to God. 4 A man should regard us as attendants of Christ and stewards of God’s sacred secrets. 2 In this regard, what is expected of stewards is that they be found faithful. 3 Now to me it is of very little importance to be examined by you or by a human tribunal. In fact, I do not even examine myself. 4 For I am not conscious of anything against myself. But by this I am not proved righteous; the one who examines me is Jehovah. 5 Therefore, do not judge anything before the due time, until the Lord comes. He will bring the secret things of darkness to light and make known the intentions of the hearts, and then each one will receive his praise from God. 6 Now, brothers, these things I have applied to myself and A·polʹlos for your good, that through us you may learn the rule: “Do not go beyond the things that are written,” so that you may not be puffed up with pride, favoring one against the other. 7 For who makes you different from another? Indeed, what do you have that you did not receive? If, in fact, you did receive it, why do you boast as though you did not receive it? 8 Are you already satisfied? Are you already rich? Have you begun ruling as kings without us? I really wish that you had begun ruling as kings, so that we also might rule with you as kings. 9 For it seems to me that God has put us the apostles last on exhibition as men condemned to death, because we have become a theatrical spectacle to the world, and to angels and to men. . . . 14 I am writing these things, not to put you to shame, but to admonish you as my beloved children. 15 For though you may have 10,000 guardians [tutors] in Christ, you certainly do not have many fathers; for in Christ Jesus, I have become your father through the good news. 16 I urge you, therefore, become imitators of me. 17 That is why I am sending Timothy to you, because he is my beloved and faithful child in the Lord. He will remind you of my methods [ways] in connection with Christ Jesus, just as I am teaching everywhere in every congregation.

There is always going to be a strong temptation to accept well-known leaders as if they held the position of apostles. The so-called "superfine apostles" that the Corinthians looked to as leaders may have included the Jerusalem apostles, but also men like Apollos who might have been better speakers in person, whereas Paul may have been a better writer, for example. (See 2 Corinthians.) But the foundation of apostles has also already been completed:

(1 Corinthians 12:28-31) 28 And God has assigned the respective ones in the congregation: first, apostles; second, prophets; third, teachers; then powerful works; then gifts of healings; helpful services; abilities to direct; different tongues. 29 Not all are apostles, are they? Not all are prophets, are they? Not all are teachers, are they? Not all perform powerful works, do they? 30 Not all have gifts of healings, do they? Not all speak in tongues, do they? Not all are interpreters, are they? 31 But keep striving for the greater gifts. And yet I will show you a surpassing way.

"Guardians of the doctrine" is most definitely intended as a reference to the work of the apostles, "The Twelve," based on the time that Jesus asked them to stay in Jerusalem so that they, all together, would receive the benefit of the outpouring of "holy spirit." Brother Jackson even referenced a portion of Acts that was part of this narrative:

(Acts 1:4) 4 While he was meeting with them, he ordered them: “Do not leave Jerusalem, but keep waiting for what the Father has promised,. . .

(Acts 6:2-4) 2 So the Twelve called the multitude of the disciples together and said: “It is not right for us to leave the word of God to distribute food to tables. 3 So, brothers, select for yourselves seven reputable men from among you, full of spirit and wisdom, that we may appoint them over this necessary matter; 4 but we will devote ourselves to prayer and to the ministry of the word.”

I do not consider the Governing Body to be governors of our faith. According to Paul, all of us need to take on the responsibility as guardians of doctrine (teachings). (The reference to 10,000 guardians in 1 Corinthinans is interesting)  I do respect our Governing Body as experienced leaders in practical matters related to running the needs of an organization. But following the leaders in our congregation(s) is not primarily about a set of doctrines, which are already set from the time of the apostles themselves. Their leadership is about activities in which they lead. Congregational leadership is more about shepherding. Although it must often include corrections to doctrinal deviation, and explaining basic teachings for those who are not mature enough to understand, shepherding is mostly about the love and care and personal help and guidance provided to all of us as needed.

But we are no longer under a separate human guardian or guardians with respect to rules, doctrines and teachings. The Jewish religious leaders held that "office" for many years:

(Romans 3:1-4)  What, then, is the advantage of the Jew, . . .  First of all, that they were entrusted with the sacred pronouncements of God. . . .  But let God be found true, even if every man be found a liar,. . .

For Christians, the "apostles" guarded those teachings. At this point we have no such guardian of our teaching except the words themselves approved from the era of the apostles. At this point, we do not go beyond the things written. This is summed up well in what 2 Peter says about Paul's writings:

(2 Peter 3:15-18) 15 Furthermore, consider the patience of our Lord as salvation, just as our beloved brother Paul also wrote you according to the wisdom given him, 16 speaking about these things as he does in all his letters. However, some things in them are hard to understand, and these things the ignorant and unstable are twisting, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction. 17 You, therefore, beloved ones, having this advance knowledge, be on your guard so that you may not be led astray with them by the error of the lawless people and fall from your own steadfastness. 18 No, but go on growing in the undeserved kindness and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.. . .

The portion of 1 Corinthians was already quoted that relates human leadership of this sort to "going beyond the things written."

(1 Corinthians 4:6) 6 Now, brothers, these things I have applied to myself and A·polʹlos for your good, that through us you may learn the rule: “Do not go beyond the things that are written,” so that you may not be puffed up with pride, favoring one against the other. . .

A good example to show the need for taking personal responsibility with respect to following and guarding the teaching of the apostles already given is what was said to a young man named Timothy.

(1 Timothy 4:16) 16 Pay constant attention to yourself and to your teaching. . . .

(2 Timothy 1:12-14) . . .. 13 Keep holding to the standard of wholesome words that you heard from me with the faith and love that result from union with Christ Jesus. 14 Guard this fine trust by means of the holy spirit, which is dwelling in us.

Also Paul warned that we even would have needed to be watchful about putting too much trust in humans, even if they are angels from heaven or even the living apostles themselves!  This is what Paul said to the Galatians who put too much trust in the apostles as guardians of doctrines, before the full results of their conduct had been proven:

(Galatians 6:4-6) 4 But let each one examine his own actions, and then he will have cause for rejoicing in regard to himself alone, and not in comparison with the other person. 5 For each one will carry his own load. 6 Moreover, let anyone who is being taught the word share in all good things with the one who gives such teaching.

(Galatians 1:8) 8 However, even if we or an angel out of heaven were to declare to you as good news something beyond the good news we declared to you, let him be accursed.

(Galatians 2:6-12) 6 But regarding those who seemed to be important—whatever they were makes no difference to me, for God does not go by a man’s outward appearance—those highly regarded men imparted nothing new to me. 7 On the contrary,. . .  when they recognized the undeserved kindness that was given me, James and Ceʹphas and John, the ones who seemed to be pillars, gave Barʹna·bas and me the right hand of fellowship, so that we should go to the nations but they to those who are circumcised. 10 They asked only that we keep the poor in mind, and this I have also earnestly endeavored to do. 11 However, when Ceʹphas came to Antioch, I resisted him face-to-face, because he was clearly in the wrong. 12 For before certain men from James arrived, he used to eat with people of the nations; but when they arrived, he stopped doing this and separated himself, fearing those of the circumcised class.

That is certainly a good reminder about the limitations in following those who take the lead. If we had lived at the time of the apostles we would have been personally responsible not to follow their lead in all things. We are responsible to make sure of all things, to make sure we have contemplated how their conduct turns out first:

(Hebrews 13:7) "Remember those who are taking the lead among you, who have spoken the word of God to you, and as you contemplate how their conduct turns out, imitate their faith."

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16 hours ago, Anna said:

For that reason I do not feel this “new” teaching is trying to somehow avoid the potential for suspicion or questioning the GB.

I can't see it any other way. Jesus said that a master would appoint a steward to keep his household running smoothly even when the master is away.

In context, we naturally assume that Jesus is referring to the fact that Christians are given a responsibility in an assignment and should remain obedient and watchful in their assignment. As JW's most of us also assume that the Christians who are given this responsibility are only a small group of people who fulfill this responsibility by serving spiritual food to the entire group of Christians earthwide.

That's a possibility. But we take it a bit further and say that it was a prophecy that begins in 1919.

That's where the problem of avoiding the potential for suspicion comes in. Jesus is supposed to be prophesying that the Governing Body of the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society in 1919 would begin serving up "food at the proper time" to the entire household of faith. (In the past decade or two, this Governing Body is no longer directly associated, legally, with the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society, but with the "Christian Congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses.")

But was Jesus predicting only that this slave would remain faithful? The Watchtower indicates that this is so by claiming in the Watchtower, as quoted in the original post: "Notice that Jesus introduces the warning with the words “if ever.” One scholar says that in the Greek text, this passage “for all practical purposes is a hypothetical condition.”

It's a footnote on page 71 of "New English Translation - Novum Testamentum Graece" which is the best source of the Nestle-Aland Greek text with interlinear text and notes edited by Michael H. Burer, W. Hall Harris III and Daniel B. Wallace. The note says:

"In the Greek text this is a third class condition that for all practical purposes is a hypothetical condition (note the translation of the following verb "should say"). Cf. CEV, NCV "But suppose."

In actuality, even though it is hypothetical, it has nothing to do with whether it will happen or not. The term "if" doesn't even need to be translated this way. The same word is used in the Greek Scriptures when it has nothing to do with whether the option or event will happen. In fact, on page 91 of the same translation, Mark 1:40,41 says: "Now a leper came to him and fell to his knees, asking for help. 'If you are willing, you can make me clean," he said. Moved with compassion Jesus stretched out his hand and touched him saying, "I am willing. Be clean!" The term if is also noted to be in the third class condition according to the similar footnote on this verse.

Then again, the same term "if" is not always considered important to translate in dozens of its appearances in the Greek Scriptures. And the idea of "if" can also be added even where it doesn't appear specifically in Greek. Note that the NWT adds it in Luke 12 to the positive case where it's the "faithful slave" being referred to.

(Luke 12:43) Happy is that slave if his master on coming finds him doing so!

In fact, the "if" idea is obvious in the conclusion of other illustrations that Jesus gave, where it is clear that Jesus expects more people to be without faith, than people with faith:

(Luke 18:8) . . .Nevertheless, when the Son of man arrives, will he really find this faith on the earth?”


So if there is a prophecy here about an appointed slave being faithful, and Jesus gives several outcomes in the event that the slave is not faithful, then why would we not consider it true that Jesus had just prophesied about several outcomes for this appointed steward? Why would Jesus have gone to the trouble of describing various ways in which the servant could prove unfaithful?

We would therefore be expecting that some of the people who either claimed to be a part of this group, or who we have determined to be a part of this group would prove unfaithful. And because of Jesus' words, we might even expect that more would be unfaithful than would be faithful. Therefore, we would want to be watching closely to make sure that we were not found guilty ourselves by our lack of watchfulness in this regard.

 

I think I probably already made clear that, for me, the illustration is not about a special group who identify themselves as different from all other Christians, and therefore set themselves up as "governors" or "lords" over other Christians, but it must refer to the humble, discreet, and faithful and watchful and patient attitude of all Christians as we each are in subjection to each other.

(Ephesians 5:21-25) 21 Be in subjection to one another in fear of Christ. . . .  just as the Christ is head of the congregation, he being a savior of this body. 24 In fact, as the congregation is in subjection to the Christ, . . .  just as the Christ also loved the congregation and gave himself up for it,

(Ephesians 6:5-7) 5 Slaves, be obedient to your human masters, with fear and trembling in the sincerity of your hearts, as to the Christ, 6 not only when being watched, just to please men, but as Christ’s slaves doing the will of God whole-souled. 7 Slave with a good attitude, as to Jehovah and not to men,

When Paul says that he has a "stewardship" in the "household" of God, he uses the term "diakonos"

(Colossians 1:25) 25 I became a minister of this congregation in accord with the stewardship from God that was given to me in your behalf to preach the word of God fully,

But this is the same term that refers to all of us. Note Matthew 20:26, similar to the verse already quoted by Witness, and John 12. Obviously there are dozens more verses, too, that use the same term for "minister" and "servant."

(Matthew 20:25-27) 25 But Jesus called them to him and said: “You know that the rulers of the nations lord it over them and the great men wield authority over them. 26 This must not be the way among you; but whoever wants to become great among you must be your minister [steward], diakonos], 27 and whoever wants to be first among you must be your slave.

(John 12:26) 26 If anyone would minister to me, let him follow me, and where I am, there my minister [steward, diakonos] will be also. If anyone would minister to me, the Father will honor him.

So the pillar and support of the truth for the congregation is not found in a separate "slave class" or a body of teachings, but is the entire household serving each other.

(1 Timothy 3:14, 15) 14 I am writing you these things, though I am hoping to come to you shortly, 15 but in case I am delayed, so that you may know how you ought to conduct yourself in God’s household, which is the congregation of the living God, a pillar and support of the truth.

This must be why, in Paul's longer dissertation against the idea of a "Governing Body" in Jerusalem, found in the first two chapters of Galations, he could say that James, Peter and John "seemed to be pillars" (2:9):

(Galatians 1:10) 10 Is it, in fact, men I am now trying to persuade or God? Or am I trying to please men? If I were still pleasing men, I would not be Christ’s slave.

 

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13 hours ago, JW Insider said:

We would therefore be expecting that some of the people who either claimed to be a part of this group, or who we have determined to be a part of this group would prove unfaithful. And because of Jesus' words, we might even expect that more would be unfaithful than would be faithful. Therefore, we would want to be watching closely to make sure that we were not found guilty ourselves by our lack of watchfulness in this regard.

 

I understand what you are saying. However, in practice what does that mean? What is it ultimately that will decide whether we will be granted entry into the paradise? Or conversely, what is it that would make us not qualify? When we really get down to the grass roots, answer those questions, isolate only what is really relevant, then we can get a clearer picture of what really matters with regard to what the GB/Slave is doing or not doing. My thoughts :)

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15 hours ago, JW Insider said:

(Hebrews 13:7) "Remember those who are taking the lead among you, who have spoken the word of God to you, and as you contemplate how their conduct turns out, imitate their faith.

Exactly. I don't know which Assembly or Convention this was at, but I am sure it was the one with the faith theme, the brother (may have been one of the GB) who gave one of the talks highlighted this scripture and applied it to the elders and the GB. Any mature Christian will know that the GB are just like any one of us.

The unfortunate problem is, that because of the nature of the situation that there is a handful of "them" and millions of "us" it becomes inevitable that some kind of "celebrity" status is awarded to them which is not really deliberate, but happens as a result of this difference in number. To illustrate. Br. Lett, as we know a very friendly amicable chap, loves to have his picture taken with the friends. (There are other members of the GB who don't like their pictures taken). At our last assembly Br. Lett was present as our visiting speaker. Funnily I think it was the imitate their faith one. In any case, after the program there was a long queue of brothers and sisters waiting to have their pictures taken with him and his wife. One of my friends was in the queue and I jokingly asserted she was being a creature worshiper. She laughed. We both knew I didn't mean it. And we both knew that in practice, how else could this be done? There is no other way. They ARE prominent whether they strive to be so or not. They are no longer anonymous to the majority like they used to be. The question is, is this necessarily wrong? Not if you keep in mind the scripture you quoted. If everyone keeps that scripture in mind then there should be no problem at all.

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“ Indeed, everyone to whom much was given, much will be demanded of him, and the one who was put in charge of much will have more than usual demanded of him.”

He is speaking of the Chosen ones.  “Everyone” concerns those who are part of his Body, God’s Temple – the anointed ones.   

“Now there are varieties of gifts, but the same Spirit; and there are varieties of service, but the same Lord;  and there are varieties of activities, but it is the same God who empowers them all in everyone.To each is given the manifestation of the Spirit for the common good. For to one is given through the Spirit the utterance of wisdom, and to another the utterance of knowledge according to the same Spirit, to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by the one Spirit,  to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another the ability to distinguish between spirits, to another various kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues.  All these are empowered by one and the same Spirit, who apportions to each one individually as he wills.” 1 Cor 12:4-11

(1 Corinthians 4:6) 6 Now, brothers, these things I have applied to myself and A·polʹlos for your good, that through us you may learn the rule: “Do not go beyond the things that are written,” so that you may not be puffed up with pride, favoring one against the other. . .

Certainly, the characteristic of an “evil slave” is one who reacts to “My Master is delaying” by going ahead of Christ and appointing a time of his arrival, which the leaders in the organization have.  Wouldn’t setting such a date be going beyond the things that are written, an act of prideful presumptuousness?

The progression that follows, is dominance over of all anointed ones, the obligation to accept this time table derived from men and not scripture. 

(Galatians 2:6-12) However, when Ceʹphas came to Antioch, I resisted him face-to-face, because he was clearly in the wrong.  

If any anointed one stands “face-to-face” with theGoverning Body through the Body of Elders (a conterfeit of the Body of Christ),  over doctrine –  “things that go beyond what is written”, they are ousted by disfellowshipping.  This power play is nothing new.

I have written something to the church, but Diotrephes, who likes to put himself first, does not acknowledge our authority So if I come, I will bring up what he is doing, talking wicked nonsense against us. And not content with that, he refuses to welcome the brothers, and also stops those who want to and puts them out of the church.  3 John 9,10

The Governing Body does not acknowledge the spiritual authority of the anointed ones; instead they ‘favor’ themselves over all of their spiritual brothers.  How can this be excused? 

For no one ever hated his own flesh, but nourishes and cherishes it, just as the Lord does the church For we are members of His body, of His flesh and of His bones.  Eph 5:29,30

You have many good points, JW Insider, I just wish you could see the whole picture.

The evil slave who “beats his fellow slaves” – brothers in Christ – does so by playing the dominant role, not loving their own “members” in Christ, (1 Cor 12:26) and through arrogance, act as a “Diotrephes”.   Paul was the epitome of a loving “steward” over God’s household, his anointed brothers. The Governing Body is the epitome of dominance and pride, without love for those within God’s household, and all done by wearing a smile.

Again, this household is the Body of Christ; which are the anointed ones.

 He who plants and he who waters are one, and each will receive his wages according to his labor. For we are God's fellow workers. You are God's field, God's building. 1 Cor 3:8,9

“For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them”. Eph 2:10

“According to the grace of God given to me, like a skilled master builder I laid a foundation, and someone else is building upon it. Let each one take care how he builds upon it For no one can lay a foundation other than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ.” 1 Cor 3:10

“built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone,  in whom the whole structure, being joined together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord In him you also are being built together into a dwelling place for God by the Spirit.”

“Do you not know that you are the temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you? If anyone defiles the temple of GodGod will destroy him. For the temple of God is holy, which temple you are.”  1 Cor 3:16,17

The Temple (priests, 1 Pet 2:5,9) is defiled through blasphemous teachings of a wicked slave, and through obedience to those NOT part of this Temple, the Body of Elders.

“I know your works, your labor, and your endurance, and that you cannot tolerate evil. You have tested those who call themselves apostles (the elders) and are not, and you have found them to be liars.” Rev 2:2

The appearance of the wicked slave during the time of the end is the tribulating resistance that each member of the Body of Christ faces before being sealed. 

Someone put it so succinctly:

They hid their evil so well, the rank and file for the most part were unaware. WT indoctrinated everyone so completely that they are vehemently defended by WT apologist, even concerning the pedophile cases. Everyone hates that behavior but they make excuses for the GB. What's so amazingly sad is the treatment of the other anointed, instigated by the GB, is not known or ignored by the rank and file. They believe lies told by GB that other anointed are not important, when sealing of the full number of anointed means salvation for mankind.

 For the creation waits with eager longing for the revealing of the sons of God For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of him who subjected it, in hope  that the creation itself will be set free from its bondage to corruption and obtain the freedom of the glory of the children of God.  For we know that the whole creation has been groaning together in the pains of childbirth until now.

This situation under an evil slave is part of the labor pains Jesus predicted. Matt 24:8

Notice Matt 24:9 on:

 “Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and put you to death, (face-to-face confrontation over doctrine leading to “putting out of the church”) John 16:2

Remembering the symbolism of Revelation (Rev 1:1 in Greek)– Rev 13:15,10;12:11

 “and you will be hated by all nations for my name's sake.”

Who’s name?  Jesus Christ.  This is exactly why I was personally disfellowshipped; that, and rejecting an organization as salvation when this comes from God through Christ and the sealed Body of Christ.     

“And then many will fall away (leaving their covenant in Christ)and betray one another and hate one another.”

Luke 12:49-53; Matt 10;21-23

“And many false prophets will arise and lead many astray. “

Along with the “many” over time are the last ones, Satan’s most deceitful ploy before the Kingdom arrives.  Rev 19:20

“And because lawlessness will be increased, the love of many will grow cold.” 

Can you see that the GB and elder body shepherd without love through necessary obedience to men?  I believe you do.  The evil slave dominates his brothers in Christ; lawlessness is against Christ’s law of love toward his brothers, and he rejects God’s own laws necessary to guide God’s Chosen priesthood, through the formation of an elder body, a false priesthood, – the “man of lawlessness” that “sits in the Temple of God”.   2 Thess 2:4; Jer 23:11 (Mal 2:7)

 “But the one who endures to the end will be saved.” (Rom 6:11; Eph 2:1,5; Col 3:1; Rev 11:11)

The path of losing all to follow Christ, including family and friends, and being marked as “dead” by the congregation, proves their faithfulness solely to Christ and the Father, and can lead to their sealing in Christ, but only outside of the organization, removing its ‘mark’.  Rev 13:16-18; Heb 13:12,13

Christ said, “All these are the beginning of birth pains.” Leading to what? The Kingdom of God, which only arrives when the last of the Bride is sealed.   Revelation identifies the “woman”/New Covenant promise ready to be “devoured” by Satan (Rev 12:4; Jer 4:31)  When an anointed one loyally obeys someone (GB) other than their Master, who’s impressing them to do so? The Governing Body.  By giving into this fear, allowing this to happen, the individual is “devoured” through their obedience to the wrong Master.  Ask yourself then, who is Satan’s puppet?  

 It is a self assigned “faithful and discreet slave”.  Rev 13:15 

“Woe to those who are wise in their own eyes and clever in their own sight.”  Isa 5:21

I have heard of no other anointed one who will profess to this title, no other anointed one dares call himself such until Christ arrives. (Matt 25:19-30) Yet, the question is asked,

 Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his master made ruler over his household, to give them food in due season?

This gives the indication that there could very well be two outcomes. An evil slave (another counterfeit of Satan acting as a “faithful slave”) and a true faithful and wise servant providing such food in due season, the season that signifies the Marriage Feast, prompted by the “wise virgins” who trim their lamps, and the invitation given to all who leave the “city”. Matt 25:1-13; Luke 14:15-23

If you peruse the forums, you will notice the large outflow of those leaving the organization. This alone is a sign of the Marriage Feast, but what each heart chooses upon leaving will further determine his choice of “roads” – the narrow one leading to Christ, or the broad and spacious one.

God’s Kingdom will arrive only when each anointed heart is sealed to the promise they have chosen, and those hearts who declare which teacher they choose also to follow; those teaching life in Christ, or death in deception and its originator.  By that time, all “144,000”, (symbolic or literal) will be sealed.

Now concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered together to him, we ask you, brothers  not to be quickly shaken in mind or alarmed, either by a spirit or a spoken word, or a letter seeming to be from us , to the effect that the day of the Lord has come.

The Watchtower has made this declaration. (“My Master is delaying”)

Dan 7:25 - He shall speak pompous words against the Most High, (1 Cor 4:6)
Shall persecute the saints of the Most High, (Matt 24:
And shall intend to change times and law. (2 Thess 2:2)
Then the saints shall be given into his hand For a time and times and half a time.

The coming of the lawless one is by the activity of Satan with all power and false signs and wonders,  and with all wicked deception for those who are perishing, because they refused to love the truth and so be saved.  Therefore God sends them a strong delusion, so that they may believe what is false12 in order that all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness. 2 Thess 2:9,10

“…so that they may believe what is false.”  Already we see the warnings verified of men setting their own time period prompted by believing the Master is delayed, which the apostles warned not to be “shaken in mind or alarmed” by.   This is only part of the delusion, the entirety is an organizational “image”, an icon known as earthly Zion, and known as the truth. 

“And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness”.  2 Thess 2:11

This is what the last “living stones” of the Temple of God face!  It has nothing to do with the United Nations, or earthly governments or other religious organizations. There is no delusion there for God’s Chosen ones.  Everyone in the organization sees Satan’s activities elsewhere, but not right among them.  Always in scriptures God’s own priests and prophets are at fault, leading themselves and others to their death through sin and idolatry.  Jer 14:14; Jer 23:32

 

JW Insider, do you realize if your own thoughts were relayed to the elder body concerning the Governing Body that you also would be disfellowshipped?  If you keep your comments anonymous, you are “safe”, but if you truly voiced them among those you love, you could “lose your life” as you know it.  The symbolic meaning of this can be seen in Matt 10:38,39

 “Anyone who loves their father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; anyone who loves their son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.  Whoever does not take up their cross and follow me is not worthy of me.  Whoever finds their life will lose it, and whoever loses their life for my sake will find it.” 

Satan’s Short Period of Time -

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4 hours ago, Witness said:

This gives the indication that there could very well be two outcomes. An evil slave (another counterfeit of Satan acting as a “faithful slave”) and a true faithful and wise servant providing such food in due season, the season that signifies the Marriage Feast, prompted by the “wise virgins” who trim their lamps, and the invitation given to all who leave the “city”. Matt 25:1-13; Luke 14:15-23

If you peruse the forums, you will notice the large outflow of those leaving the organization. This alone is a sign of the Marriage Feast, but what each heart chooses upon leaving will further determine his choice of “roads” – the narrow one leading to Christ, or the broad and spacious one.

I would say, those who you call an "evil Save" seem to be doing a pretty good job of providing spiritual food. The WT - Announcing Jehovah's Kingdom, is at no. 1 for the most widely distributed magazine in the world, the Awake is at no. 2, and JW.org is at no.1 for the most translated website in the world. All this achieved through volunteer work. And just in case you have some comments about Satan being in charge of that, then be aware that the Bible is at no.1 for the most widely distributed book in the world. Kind of cool, the Bible at no.1, a magazine announcing God's Kingdom at no. 1, and a website announcing God's Kingdom in most languages at no.1.

As for people leaving the organization and then choosing the right road is kind of complicated don't you think? I would have though that people leaving Babylon the Great would be sufficient. Or are there multiple evil slaves?

 

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On 12/26/2016 at 10:47 PM, JW Insider said:

I do not consider the Governing Body to be governors of our faith. According to Paul, all of us need to take on the responsibility as guardians of doctrine (teachings).

Well no, neither do I for the same reasons as you. It is each person's responsibility. I quote that statement by Br. Jackson: “......the Governing Body, which is, may I state, a group, a spiritual group of men who are the guardians of our doctrine, and as guardians of the doctrine, look at things that need to be decided based on our doctrines, which are based on the constitution of the Bible”.

What I understand from from that statement is that the GB's concern is that when Bible truths are disseminated, or when decisions are made by them that these remain faithful to what the scriptures intended, and not that they are taking away the responsibility for this from others. This is confirmed by another statement that Br. Jackson made regarding others, quote:

“Now, the Governing Body realises that if we were to give some direction that is not in harmony with God's word, all of Jehovah's Witnesses worldwide who have the Bible would notice that and they would see that it was wrong direction.  So we have responsibilities as guardians to make sure that everything is scripturally acceptable”.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Anna said:

“Now, the Governing Body realises that if we were to give some direction that is not in harmony with God's word, all of Jehovah's Witnesses worldwide who have the Bible would notice that and they would see that it was wrong direction.  So we have responsibilities as guardians to make sure that everything is scripturally acceptable”

The small problem with this statement is easy to detect, and I'm sure you saw it, too.

It appears to claim that if "some" direction was given that was not in harmony with God's word, then "all of Jehovah's Witnesses" would notice. This has never, ever been true! Every time "some" change is made to a doctrine (and there have been literally hundreds of such changes) then the GB made this change because it was important to be in more complete harmony with God's word. In other words, if the change was made for the new teaching to be in harmony with God's word, then the previous teaching was not in complete harmony with God's word.

Yet, there has never been a case where more than a very few Jehovah's Witnesses spoke up, often none at all, as far as anyone knew. Back in the days when we were more attuned to anxiously await the latest "new light" from the yearly convention, the comments were always about how pleasantly surprised everyone was. No Witnesses are ever asked by the Governing Body what they think of a new doctrine and almost no Witnesses would dare say anything except that they agree completely, and that it was surely "food at the proper time." This is true, even though many of those items of "new truth" that we learned at all the assemblies in my formative years have been nearly scrapped, from "Your Will Be Done on Earth" [King of North/South, antimatter, fear of Sputnik] "Let Your Name Be Sanctified" [type-antitype Elijah as "Rutherford" and Elisha as "Knorr"] to "Babylon the Great Has Fallen" [Revelation "commentary" where almost half the paragraphs are already out of date].

I remember some of the adjustments, and wrong ideas over the years have been explained as "the right thing at the wrong time" or even once as "the wrong thing at the right time." [e.g., "superior authorities" of Romans 13]. Yet, it is always "food at the proper time" as far as perhaps 99% of us are concerned. 

But that's not the biggest problem with the claim. If it were true that even "some" wrong direction were easily detected by "all" then there is no need for a special "slave class" to present doctrines. If Brother Jackson is right, then it would be better to start from scratch and vote on each doctrine democratically.

This is not a complaint about the spiritual food we receive, and it's true that the specific menu of doctrines we enjoy is fulfilling and satisfies our spiritual needs. Over the years, however, much of it has proven to have been served at the wrong time, or it was the wrong thing. Some has even been toxic and resulted in spiritual death and loss of spiritual health for many. And we now have evidence that some of it has been kept toxic on purpose for many years because the servers didn't want to admit that it was bad food, even though the GB knew it was. (For example: The directions given on handing pedophilia cases for many years, corporal punishment of children, how a sister should respond to a physically abusive husband, chronological end-times speculation.)

I think most of these things have been corrected, or are in the process of further correction. But I don't blame the bad food on the "faithful and discreet slave" because I don't believe that this parable was a prophecy in the first place. For the most part the "spiritual food" served is wonderful. Where it is wrong it is usually corrected with something that is obviously better. But where someone digs in their heels and holds to false doctrine because of a tradition or inability to admit that it might have been wrong, this is not about an appointed "slave" proving themselves to be an "evil" slave, it's just the common human tendency of people who are looked up to as leaders to become like the Pharisees, and see themselves as more important or righteous. Teachers receive heavier judgment.

That's really the reason for the parable, anyway, as far as I can tell. It's so that a person who takes on the leadership position of Brother Jackson, for example, doesn't forget that he should be in subjection to you, Anna, and that he should be willing to give a literal drink of water to you or visit you when you are physically sick, or give you some actual physical food to eat if you are hungry.  And the parable was also meant to remind you, Anna, not to forget that you should be in subjection to Brother Jackson, and not be quick to judge him harshly even if you see that he has taken a false step. We should try to build each other up with patience and discretion and faithfulness, picking each other up as best we can, and trying to understand each others' mental, emotional, physical and spiritual needs so that we can be an encouragement to each other. As the "day" continues to draw near, we want to show love toward one another, so that all of us continue awaiting Jesus "parousia" without unnecessary distraction from the world and its desires. The point of the parable is that if the Master is away it's easy to lose faith, but by building our congregations up into a family of brothers and sisters who look out for each other with love, we will not be tempted to lose faith in the promise, which can result in disobendience to the Master, and being overly concerned about who is right and who isn't, or finding opportunities to "lord it over" our fellow servants.

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2 hours ago, Anna said:

I would say, those who you call an "evil Save" seem to be doing a pretty good job of providing spiritual food

And all of that “spiritual food” is found accurate?  Or is it “present truth”, a term I read that an older JW used for today’s teachings?

 “But I am afraid that as the serpent deceived Eve by his cunning, your thoughts will be led astray from a sincere and pure devotion to Christ. For if someone comes and proclaims another Jesus than the one we proclaimed, or if you receive a different spirit from the one you received, or if you accept a different gospel from the one you accepted, you put up with it readily enough.” 2 Cor 11:3,4

Your comments are in green.

The WT - Announcing Jehovah's Kingdom, is at no. 1 for the most widely distributed magazine in the world, the Awake is at no. 2, and JW.org is at no.1 for the most translated website in the world.

“The coming of the lawless one is by the activity of Satan with all power and false signs and wonders,  and with all wicked deception for those who are perishing, because they refused to love the truth and so be saved.” 2 Thess 2:9

And they worshiped the dragon, for he had given his authority to the beast (an “image”), and they worshiped the beast, saying, “Who is like the beast, and who can fight against it?” Rev 13:4

And just in case you have some comments about Satan being in charge of that, then be aware that the Bible is at no.1 for the most widely distributed book in the world.

It is quite wonderful.  It is God’s book after all.  Should we expect anything less?

Kind of cool, the Bible at no.1, a magazine announcing God's Kingdom at no. 1, and a website announcing God's Kingdom in most languages at no.1.

By his cunning he shall make DECEIT prosper under his hand, and in his own mind he shall become great. Without warning he shall destroy many. And he shall even rise up against the Prince of princes, and he shall be broken—but by no human hand.  Dan 8:25

I will put enmity between you and the woman,
    and between your offspring and her offspring;
he shall bruise your head,
    and you shall bruise his heel.”  Gen 3:15

For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the cosmic powers over this present darkness, against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly places.”  Eph 6:12

“Beware lest anyone cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the basic principles of the world, and not according to Christ”.  Col 2:8

“For though we walk in the flesh, we are not waging war according to the flesh For the weapons of our warfare are not of the flesh but have divine power to destroy strongholds.  We destroy arguments and every lofty opinion raised against the knowledge of God, and take every thought captive to obey Christ  2 Cor 10:3-5

“Now I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse. And He who sat on him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and makes war.” Rev 19:11

“And the armies in heaven, clothed in fine linen, white and clean, followed Him on white horses.” Rev 19:14

“And I saw the beast, the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against Him who sat on the horse and against His army.  Then the beast was captured, and with him the false prophet who worked signs in his presence, by which he deceived those who received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image. “  Rev 19:19,20

 “Now when He was asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, He answered them and said, “The kingdom of God does not come with observation”  Luke 17:20

“Remember therefore how you have received and heard; hold fast and repent. Therefore if you will not watch, I will come upon you as a thiefand you will not know what hour I will come upon you.”  Rev 3:3

As for people leaving the organization and then choosing the right road is kind of complicated don't you think?

Complicated?  No.  How can turning one’s heart completely to God and Christ be complicated unless we make it so?  It can be difficult denying oneself and following Christ, but this is where our faith is tested. 

 “So Jesus answered and said, “Assuredly, I say to you, there is no one who has left house or brothers or sisters or father or mother or wife or children or lands, for My sake and the gospel’s, who shall not receive a hundredfold now in this time—houses and brothers and sisters and mothers and children and lands, with persecutionsand in the age to come, eternal life.” Mark 10:29,30

And you will be hated by all for My name’s sake. But he who endures to the end shall be saved.  Mark 13:13

 “Then Jesus looked around and said to His disciples, “How hard it is for those who have riches to enter the kingdom of God!” 24 And the disciples were astonished at His words. But Jesus answered again and said to them, “Children, how hard it is for those who trust in riches[

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] to enter the kingdom of God! 25 It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.”

26 And they were greatly astonished, saying among themselves, “Who then can be saved?”

27 But Jesus looked at them and said, “With men it is impossible, but not with God; for with God all things are possible.  Mark 10:23-27

 “Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it. Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it.”  Matt 7:13,14

I would have though that people leaving Babylon the Great would be sufficient.

There are two covenant promises, the promise of life in God’s Kingdom and death through Babylon the Great. 

Because you have said, “We have made a covenant with death, And with Sheol we are in agreement. When the overflowing scourge passes through, It will not come to us, For we have made lies our refuge, And under falsehood we have hidden ourselves.”

There is only truth in Christ, or lies in Satan.  Each anointed one will teach one or the other; thus, by their fruits you will know them.

Should we go into the false promises of the Watchtower over the years?  Or the present teachings of “this generation”, based on 1914 (Dan 7:25; 2 Thess 2:2), or the pedophile issue, or disfellowshipping and shunning, or demanded obedience to men?

Christ is Truth, not falsehood, not darkness in ANY amount – not even a little. Matt 5:14   Anointed ones can leave their covenant with Christ through their own sinful, prideful lusts.

Or are there multiple evil slaves?

These teachings of Christ are not just for our time, but from the time Jesus was resurrected.  A house steward over the anointed ones most likely existed when needed; and possibly there were “evil slaves” as well as faithful slaves. Also, each anointed slave of Christ must prove to be “faithful and discreet” as well as stewards of God’s word.  Matt 25:21; 1 Cor 4:1

 “Little children, it is the last hour; and as you have heard that the Antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come, by which we know that it is the last hour.  They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us. 1 John 2:18,19

“This is the message which we have heard from Him and declare to you, that God is light and in Him is no darkness at all.  If we say that we have fellowship with Him, and walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth.  But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin.” 1 John 1:5-7

He who says he is in the light, AND HATES HIS BROTHER, is in darkness until now. 1 John 2:9

This particular fulfilment of the evil slave pairs with the identity of the fourth beast of Daniel that the “remaining ones of the woman’s seed” must face. Dan 7:7,8,21,23,25; 8:9-12, 23-25; 11:21-14; 31-45      Rev 17:11,12; 13:1,2,4

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, JW Insider said:

“Now, the Governing Body realises that if we were to give some direction that is not in harmony with God's word, all of Jehovah's Witnesses worldwide who have the Bible would notice that and they would see that it was wrong direction.  So we have responsibilities as guardians to make sure that everything is scripturally acceptable”

I will tell you how I understand it. In context, it seems that what was meant by "direction" was not necessarily of doctrinal nature, although I must admit it could be viewed that way. But Br. Jackson was talking about directions given to the branch office in Australia, regarding matters of Child abuse. He was asked whether branch offices were able to act autonomously, to which the reply was no. It seems he was implying that if some direction was un-scriptural, it would be noticed, but not necessarily voiced. 

1 hour ago, JW Insider said:

That's really the reason for the parable, anyway, as far as I can tell. It's so that a person who takes on the leadership position of Brother Jackson, for example, doesn't forget that he should be in subjection to you, Anna, and that he should be willing to give a literal drink of water to you or visit you when you are physically sick, or give you some actual physical food to eat if you are hungry.  And the parable was also meant to remind you, Anna, not to forget that you should be in subjection to Brother Jackson, and not be quick to judge him harshly even if you see that he has taken a false step.

I believe this too, and I trust the GB does as well, as they view themselves as the domestics too.

Going back to your original subject "who really is the faithful and discreet slave", is it all of us, feeding each other? It is to a degree, but at the outset, how would we have known what, when and how to feed? Would we all do this as we saw fit? According to our own personal interpretation or opinion? The present day "Bible Students" do this. They believe it is their "freedom in Christ" that allows for differing views on doctrinal matters. But where is the truth? Where is order? Aren't truth and order important to Jehovah? Wouldn't we all just end up like Christendom, and each of us join the denomination that most appealed to us? What about the preaching? In my mind, it is nothing short of a miracle that we function the way we do, all on voluntary work, headed by a bunch of imperfect men in Warwick. I just posted earlier in a reply to Witness, that our Magazines rank no.1 and 2 in the world in distribution, and that our website ranks no. 1 as the most translated website, by far. Is this a coincidence? Of course Witness has a different answer to that, which was to be expected, but really, looking at it objectively, shouldn't one expect that God's word, and publications and websites directing people to God's word and advertising God's Kingdom would be the most widely distributed and translated in the world? So we, inclusive of the GB, must be doing something right.

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19 hours ago, JW Insider said:

Yes. We ARE doing something right, and this results in Jehovah's blessing on the kind of work we do.

Wt 16/3 pp. 18-23:  Jesus has appointed elders to take the lead in the congregation, and he wants us to respect them and follow the direction they give us.His holy spirit can help us to obey any direction that the elders give us.

Let me ask you, if Jesus, as our High Priest,has formulated his own priesthood of anointed ones to teach in the same manner as the early priesthood was guided to do, why would Jesus appoint those other than his own priests to lead in the congregation?  Mal 2:7; 1 Pet 2:5,9

Obviously the organization is not doing things right.  

By others transgressing against God's Temple, this is considered "foreigners" trampling his temple.  Ezek 44:7; Rom 2:29

 

 

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On 12/28/2016 at 3:33 PM, Anna said:

The WT - Announcing Jehovah's Kingdom, is at no. 1 for the most widely distributed magazine in the world, the Awake is at no. 2, and JW.org is at no.1 for the most translated website in the world.

"When you are persecuted in one place, flee to another. Truly I tell you, you will not finish going through the towns of Israel before the Son of Man comes."  Matt 10:23

"Then I heard the number of those who were sealed: 144,000 from all the tribes of Israel."  Rev 7:4

Wt 14 11/115 pp. 23-27  "On that day, by means of his spirit, Jehovah brought forth a new nation--spiritual Israel, "the Israel of God".

Wt 16 1 pp. 20-26  The "Jew" represents those whom God as anointed by holy spirit

If you put these together, Anna, you will see that the "good news" which takes place under all the signs of the end that Jesus gave us, "preached in all the inhabited earth", is to the scattered remnant of God's Chosen ones - within the Watchtower congregations.   Please consider the meaning of "world"/"earth" in Matt 24:14:

"Good News" - 

    Hello guest!

"Good News--What is it?  Who is it for?  1914 ("Earth")  

    Hello guest!

 

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1 hour ago, AllenSmith said:

 

How cute it is when opposers offer wordplay to define an argument. As silly as it is, it does bring a smile to ones face.

 

 

Did you read the articles?

Did you look up the Greek meaning of oikouménē ?  Or are you using “worldy” dictionaries?

This is God’s home we must consider – His dwelling place – His spiritual abode, and those who comprise it – the target of the last “good news” to be preached, the call for repentance.

    Hello guest!
,
    Hello guest!
    Hello guest!
; Rev 12:12

    Hello guest!
,
    Hello guest!
    Hello guest!
    Hello guest!
    Hello guest!
,
    Hello guest!
,
    Hello guest!

Where are God’s people being called from in Rev 18:4-8? 

“God will decide who is acceptable to carry his Holy Spirit.”

Yes, not man – not an elder body.  Each anointed one who has received God’s Holy Spirit, knows it.  It is THEY who must choose their Master – men, or Christ.

“In cases as this, it would be appropriate to “choose for yourself” who carries the true word of God and is in Harmony with God’s inspired words, The Bible. 1 John 4:1 Matthew 24:4”

Exactly!

Read again,

"When you are persecuted in one place, flee to another. Truly I tell you, you will not finish going through the towns of Israel before the Son of Man comes."  Matt 10:23

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Witness said:

Wt 16 1 pp. 20-26  The "Jew" represents those whom God as anointed by holy spirit

And yet, there will be those of a "mixed vast company", (as there were with natural Israel), who will follow Christ's brothers, but who themselves are not spiritual Jews. Zechariah 8:20-23 " “This is what Jehovah of armies says, ‘It will yet come to pass that peoples and the inhabitants of many cities will come; and the inhabitants of one city will go to those of another and say: “Let us earnestly go to beg for the favor of Jehovah and to seek Jehovah of armies. I am also going." And many peoples and mighty nations will come to seek Jehovah of armies in Jerusalem and to beg for the favor of Jehovah.’  “This is what Jehovah of armies says, ‘In those days ten men out of all the languages of the nations will take hold, yes, they will take firm hold of the robe of a Jew, saying: “We want to go with you, for we have heard that God is with you people.”’”

Isaiah 2:2-4 " In the final part of the days,The mountain of the house of Jehovah Will become firmly established above the top of the mountains, And it will be raised up above the hills, And to it all the nations will stream.And many peoples will go and say: “Come, let us go up to the mountain of Jehovah, To the house of the God of Jacob. He will instruct us about his ways, And we will walk in his paths." For law will go out of Zion, And the word of Jehovah out of Jerusalem.He will render judgment among the nations And set matters straight respecting many peoples. They will beat their swords into plowshares And their spears into pruning shears. Nation will not lift up sword against nation, Nor will they learn war anymore".

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On 12/29/2016 at 3:21 PM, AllenSmith said:

There is NO evidence, these men commissioned by God have undermined the “form they express the message of Jesus” just as the Apostles obeyed the calling of God to continue Jesus work.

The truest thing you've said on here Allen

On 12/29/2016 at 3:21 PM, AllenSmith said:

This forum and its intellectual emergence, does just that. It indoctrinates the possibilities, the Governing Body has erred,

The Governing Body themselves have said they have erred at times.

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1 hour ago, Anna said:

And yet, there will be those of a "mixed vast company", (as there were with natural Israel), who will follow Christ's brothers, but who themselves are not spiritual Jews. Zechariah 8:20-23 " “This is what Jehovah of armies says, ‘It will yet come to pass that peoples and the inhabitants of many cities will come; and the inhabitants of one city will go to those of another and say: “Let us earnestly go to beg for the favor of Jehovah and to seek Jehovah of armies. I am also going." And many peoples and mighty nations will come to seek Jehovah of armies in Jerusalem and to beg for the favor of Jehovah.’  “This is what Jehovah of armies says, ‘In those days ten men out of all the languages of the nations will take hold, yes, they will take firm hold of the robe of a Jew, saying: “We want to go with you, for we have heard that God is with you people.”’”

Isaiah 2:2-4 " In the final part of the days,The mountain of the house of Jehovah Will become firmly established above the top of the mountains, And it will be raised up above the hills, And to it all the nations will stream.And many peoples will go and say: “Come, let us go up to the mountain of Jehovah, To the house of the God of Jacob. He will instruct us about his ways, And we will walk in his paths." For law will go out of Zion, And the word of Jehovah out of Jerusalem.He will render judgment among the nations And set matters straight respecting many peoples. They will beat their swords into plowshares And their spears into pruning shears. Nation will not lift up sword against nation, Nor will they learn war anymore".

Yes, Anna.  This is so true.  The "Marriage Feast" is open to all.  

"The Marriage Feast - When?"   

    Hello guest!

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1 hour ago, AllenSmith said:

And at what point do you consider “Ecumene” differs by definition “ALL” the “inhabited world” to mean something other than “earth” or “World”. You can even include “All Nations” here.

Good point, Allen.

The inclusion of "all nations" takes away any ambiguity of the Greek meaning. It's true that one could try to make a larger point out of the less likely and rarely used definition(s) based on the fact that many words that start out with "oik..." (or "ec..." in English transliteration) can refer to dwellings and households. But this is the least likely meaning in any context, and in this case we even have the context to clarify. The word "all" goes with it, and it's tied to "all nations."

What "Witness" is depending on here is closer to the the definition of related words, such as the one used in Titus 2:5 oikourgos  - worker at home. Or Matthew 10:36 oikiakos - household. Or oikos - house, dwelling.

But the use of the same word is clarified perfectly in Romans 10:18 for a first century application prior to the judgment on the Jewish system in 70, and it works again in a larger sense for the judgment on the whole world. Note how Romans 10:18 echoes  the poetic Hebrew parallelism in Greek to make "world" the equivalent of the "earth" here:

Romans 10:18  ἀλλὰ λέγω μὴ οὐκ ἤκουσαν μενοῦνγε Εἰς πᾶσαν τὴν γῆν [earth, planet] ἐξῆλθεν φθόγγος αὐτῶν καὶ εἰς τὰ πέρατα τῆς οἰκουμένης [world, earth] τὰ ῥήματα αὐτῶν

(Romans 10:18, NWT) But I ask, They did not fail to hear, did they? Why, in fact, “into all the earth their sound went out, and to the ends of the inhabited earth their message.”

(Romans 10:18, KJV): But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world.

 

 

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On 12/28/2016 at 11:19 PM, Anna said:

So we, inclusive of the GB, must be doing something right.

Yes. We ARE doing something right, and this results in Jehovah's blessing on the kind of work we do. But it's not, in my opinion, because the GB, from 1919 on, were prophesied in Mathew 24:45, but because these brothers are doing their best with a strong desire to do the right thing.

On 12/30/2016 at 11:32 AM, Witness said:

If you put these together, Anna, you will see that the "good news" which takes place under all the signs of the end that Jesus gave us, "preached in all the inhabited earth", is to the scattered remnant of God's Chosen ones - within the Watchtower congregations.   Please consider the meaning of "world"/"earth" in Matt 24:14:

Witness, I am trying to understand what you have said here. I have two major problems understanding it.

One problem is spelled out in a little bit more detail from the "Pearl" blog that apparently coincides with several things you are saying here:

Regarding Matt.24:14; If we go back to the grass roots Greek of the translation of "world" and "nations", we see that both these translated words, are assumptions.
The Greek only and simply says, that the preaching will be done in the "home",
and that all those who are *a group occupying together the same home (definition of "ethnos"...translated "nations"), will be the target of that message.
Jesus made clear by his direct statement, who his brothers would be preaching to when he arrived (Matt.10:23). That literally reads "the circuit of Israel". That "circuit" was a first century mail route, and is exactly depicted by the seven congregations listed in Revelation. This ancient mail route went to those cities in that order. It was the "circuit of Israel". 
We know that this is symbolic, for the "Israel of God" (Rom.9:6; Gal.6:16; 3:29). 
God's last warning, is to the same group (1Pet.2:9-10; Rev.18:4; 1Cor.6:15; Rev.17:2; 2:22)
People of all nations are included (Rev.5:9,10).

Some of this reasoning contradicts not only Romans 10:18 which I quoted in my previous post to Allen, but also requires further redefinition to avoid contradictions with the "world" Satan dwells in. I'm not trying to get into all the reasons I disagree, but I'm sure you already understand that there are other ways to read this, and most persons find those other reasons more likely. It's not that I don't understand the appeal of the argument you are making, as it looks like a simpler solution to dichotomy of the references to both the first century judgment and the final judgment. But there are new problems with your solution, and of course, I admit that there are some problems remaining with the Watchtower's solution, too. As with the Watchtower, there is no consistent meaning attached to Jew and Gentile in a spiritual sense, and we sometimes use contexts from the Hebrew Scriptures to mean the spiritual solution when the first century context in the Greek Scriptures could have referred to a natural Jew and a natural Greek. These Jewish/Gentile problems even occur between Romans and Revelation, for example. I'd like to pick up on these questions under a different topic, but the main reason I quoted this section of the blog here is this:

Do you agree completely with the reasoning in the portion of the blog I quoted above. Is that why you are making the same argument to Anna about the "circuit" of the cities of Israel (and/or Asia Minor if you include the 7 congregations of Revelation)?

My other question is about this part of your quote to Anna: the "good news" which takes place under all the signs of the end that Jesus gave us, "preached in all the inhabited earth", is to the scattered remnant of God's Chosen ones - within the Watchtower congregations.

Why do you believe that the preaching of the "good news" is specifically to the scattered remnant of God's Chosen ones - within the Watchtower congregations? What makes the Watchtower so special in your view?

One more question while I think of it. Do you understand the meaning of "world" as God's "inhabited or occupied place/dwelling" to mean something like the opposite of the "wilderness" in Revelation 12?

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On 12/28/2016 at 8:25 PM, JW Insider said:

And we now have evidence that some of it has been kept toxic on purpose for many years because the servers didn't want to admit that it was bad food, even though the GB knew it was. (For example: The directions given on handing pedophilia cases for many years, corporal punishment of children, how a sister should respond to a physically abusive husband, chronological end-times speculation.)

I do agree with you that the apparent directions regarding handling of pedophilia and the others were not good at all. My mother in-law was subject to an abusive husband for years and was told by elders to stay with him and put up with it. Some even chose not to believe her, despite ample evidence. The question is, was this direction from the Slave, or was it the interpretation of elders, on how they decided to handle the situation? The same with the other problematics. I don't know. And how do you know the GB thought it was "bad food". In the instance of the handling of pedophilia it seems they thought we had the "best policies".

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1 hour ago, Anna said:

The question is, was this direction from the Slave, or was it the interpretation of elders, on how they decided to handle the situation? The same with the other problematics. I don't know. And how do you know the GB thought it was "bad food".

It's a simple principle. It's based primarily on an idea that Jesus spoke about:

(Luke 8:16, 17) 16 “No one after lighting a lamp covers it with a vessel or puts it underneath a bed, but he puts it on a lampstand so that those who come in may see the light. 17 For there is nothing hidden that will not become manifest, nor anything carefully concealed that will never become known and not come out in the open.

As a teaching organization with a teaching ministry then we will naturally want everyone to know exactly how we have handled issues both in the past and in the present (now what we have learned from any of our own mistakes from the past). This shows how appreciative we are even where Jehovah's discipline has taught us to do better, and how we are now joyous about the "peaceable fruit of righteousness" that comes from it.

(Hebrews 12:5-11) . . .“My son, do not belittle the discipline from Jehovah, nor give up when you are corrected by him; 6 for those whom Jehovah loves he disciplines, in fact, he scourges everyone whom he receives as a son.” . . .  but he does so for our benefit so that we may partake of his holiness. 11 True, no discipline seems for the present to be joyous, but it is painful; yet afterward, it yields the peaceable fruit of righteousness to those who have been trained by it.

Therefore, whenever the Governing Body is not open and clear and transparent about publishing its directions to all, then the reason for hiding it is necessarily because we know that there was something wrong with the ingredients. Whenever a member of the Governing Body is reluctant to speak out in person to explain what we do and why in every matter, doctrinal, financial, and legal, then they must be aware that there is something toxic to someone, something embarrassing to someone. Otherwise we would embrace every opportunity:

  • (Matthew 10:18-20) 18 And you will be brought before governors and kings for my sake, for a witness to them and the nations. 19 However, when they hand you over, do not become anxious about how or what you are to speak, for what you are to speak will be given you in that hour; 20 for the ones speaking are not just you, but it is the spirit of your Father that speaks by you.

We have argued that there is sometimes a trade-off in protecting Jehovah's organization and this sometimes means that the victims, the "little ones" must suffer. Protecting "Jehovah's" reputation instead of protecting victims of abuse is a perfect example. But it doesn't stop there. Protecting traditions in doctrines instead of being open and transparent about the ingredients of that doctrine is not just evidence that the doctrine is too weak to stand up to transparency, but is also proof that the promoters of such doctrine realize the potential danger and toxicity. Any thorough study of the attempts to explain some chronology doctrines in our publications, for example, shows that as much as 95% of the evidence is never mentioned at all, and even the 5% remaining is often dealt with through obfuscating, specious, or fallacious argumentation. When various documented elements of our organizational history are not just hidden but consistently reviewed with a false spin (whitewash) then it is clear that the intent is to hide the fact that past servings have been "toxic," and this makes the current purpose of such review suspect as toxic too.

For me, this is a very small portion of the overall menu, but through personal experience I can have no doubt that a type of dishonesty fueled some of the "food" preparation for such portions. The percentage of the portions might be insignificant, but the principle is serious:

(Luke 16:10) The person faithful in what is least is faithful also in much, and the person unrighteous in what is least is unrighteous also in much.

 

 

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4 minutes ago, AllenSmith said:

Can you provide an example without having to revert yourself to the Bible Students? The early stages of bible understanding laid out by many reformers, not just the WTS?

I do not go searching for instances where the GB have erred. We all err, we are all imperfect, I am very well aware of that. All I was saying was that GB themselves have reminded people they err (although any thinking person would be able to deduce that from the simple fact that, as I already said, we a ALL make mistakes and sin - Ecclesiastes 7:20 "For there is no righteous man on earth who always does good and never sins.") But some people obviously need reminding. Here is a quote from the Feb. 2017 WT Page 26, par 12:  "The Governing Body is neither inspired nor infallible. Therefore, it can err in doctrinal matters or in organizational direction. In fact, the Watch Tower Publications Index includes the heading “Beliefs Clarified,” which lists adjustments in our Scriptural understanding since 1870."  

So you can see the examples in "Beliefs Clarified".

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22 hours ago, AllenSmith said:

That’s why it would be appropriate to “choose for ourselves” how scripture is presented to us. At what point did you realize, you are Christ Equal?

 It is interesting that the Pharisees accused Christ of declaring himself to be God.  John 10:33

It appears you are making the charge that I “blaspheme” because I say I am a “slave” of Christ. I am Christ’s slave, nothing more.

"To challenge who God anoints".

If you are referring the Governing Body – they are genuine anointed ones.  I don’t challenge this truth.  I challenge their self appointed title of “faithful and discreet slave”.  Do you believe that because one is anointed that he or she does not sin, that one’s heart is immune to deception?    1 John 2:19; Heb 3:12,13; Luke 22:31

“ For I am jealous for you with godly jealousy. For I have betrothed you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.  But I fear, lest somehow, as the serpent deceived Eve by his craftiness, so your minds may be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.  For if he who comes preaches another Jesus whom we have not preached, or if you receive a different spirit which you have not received, or a different gospel which you have not accepted—you may well put up with it!”  2 Cor 11:2-4

“But who can endure the day of His coming?
And who can stand when He appears?
For He is like a refiner’s fire
And like launderers’ soap.
He will sit as a refiner and a purifier of silver;
He will purify the sons of Levi,
And purge them as gold and silver,
That they may offer to the Lord
An offering in righteousness.  Mal 3:2,3

 "A person commissioned by God’s Holy Spirit doesn’t mislead anyone who wishes to be Christ follower to know, learn, and teach the true purpose of God for this, World."

Each and every one of God’s anointed ones are “commissioned by Holy Spirit” to offer sacrifices of praise coming from a refined heart. Heb 13:15; John 14:15-17; 21:17  I am extremely sorry that you cannot see that the anointed in charge of the organization lead people, not to be Christ’s followers, but to be followers of a supposed "faithful and discreet slave" and an organization.

"How grateful we are for the timely, heartening words we receive through the publications and the meetings arranged by “the faithful and discreet slave”! bt chap. 24 pp. 189-195

How grateful I am to have the words of the bible and the blessing of Holy Spirit through Jesus Christ and the Father.

The true purpose of God is for mankind is to look “into the perfect law of liberty” – Jesus Christ, and to continue in it, “not as a forgetful hearer but a doer of the work, this one will be blessed in what he does.”  James 1:25  This takes repentance from sin and the denying of oneself – the giving up of who we are and following Christ, NOT taking up an identity as “one of Jehovah’s Witnesses” which is included as necessary during baptism.  Matt 16:24

You believe these men are commissioned by God based upon their word.  Jesus said we CHOOSE whom we listen to based upon their TEACHINGS.  This requires THINKING FOR YOURSELF.

“For a good tree does not bear bad fruit, nor does a bad tree bear good fruit.  For every tree is known by its own fruit. For men do not gather figs from thorns, nor do they gather grapes from a bramble bush.  A good man out of the good treasure of his heart brings forth good; and an evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart brings forth evil. For out of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaks.”  Luke 6:43-45

JWs hear the past truth, present truth, revised truth out of the mouths of men, and still call it TRUTH, when in fact it is deceit.

"You don’t seem to understand, that while you are critical of anyone in spiritual authority, by your own actions, you have become that supposed authority. (Role Reversal) Once again, I’ll ask, by whose authority does your understanding of scripture outway (Merit) that of ANY Religion"

You are seeing with your physical eyes only, Allan.  God’s Truth in Christ can be discerned through grace, not through any established religion on earth.  Jesus is the only Way, Truth, and Life – the “religion” we need follow to enter the Kingdom.  For the Kingdom to arrive, God’s anointed ones and all must cleanse their heart and turn completely to God’s Son, Jesus Christ. No man should stand in their way. Gal 1:10 We are to shed the “earthly” draws, the desires of the flesh – which incorporates the earthly activity of building, operations necessary to run an organization, the appeasing of men through titles, the obedience of God’s anointed ones to an elder body; instead freely giving one’s life to God.  This is unity on God’s spiritual terms, not through the physical lens of men.

 

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18 hours ago, JW Insider said:

Witness, I am trying to understand what you have said here. I have two major problems understanding it.

I must say, they are very few who try and I appreciate your patience.

Your words are in green, the first being to Anna.

Some of this reasoning contradicts not only Romans 10:18 which I quoted in my previous post to Allen, but also requires further redefinition to avoid contradictions with the "world" Satan dwells in

You might want to read the entirety of Ps 19 which is what Rom 10:18 is derived from.

Do you agree completely with the reasoning in the portion of the blog I quoted above. Is that why you are making the same argument to Anna about the "circuit" of the cities of Israel (and/or Asia Minor if you include the 7 congregations of Revelation)?

Yes. The “seven congregations” refer to the Chosen ones.  (1 Cor 14:33) Since Revelation is symbolic, the seven congregations carry a symbolic meaning today.  I’ll give you this link, since this topic has stretched and continues to stretch far from the main question. 

The Fallen Star -

    Hello guest!

I couldn’t break down the further meaning of oikoumenes any better than Pearl has done, especially in this article and using Rev 3:10, which also considers how the seed of truth makes its home on “fertile soil” of the heart.

“World/Earth/Home” – 

    Hello guest!

Although, I will say after a little extra research, the following gives me more confidence that the “occupied home” of God is his Temple, complete with Christ and his virgin Bride:

3625 - οἰκουμένην (oikoumenēn) “oikoumenē” - ikouménē (from 

    Hello guest!
 /oikéō, "to inhabit, dwell") – the inhabited earth,

οἰκουμένη oikouménē, oy-kou-men'-ay; feminine participle present passive of

    Hello guest!
– “to dwell in” (as noun, by implication, of 
    Hello guest!
); land, i.e. the (terrene part of the) globe; specially, the Roman empire:—earth, world

I decided to separate this into oiko/okeo/oikos (3624) “the inhabited earth”  

    Hello guest!
 (104x),
    Hello guest!
 (3x), 
    Hello guest!
 (2x), 
    Hello guest!
 (2x),

oy-keh'-o; from 

    Hello guest!
; to occupy a house, i.e. reside (figuratively, inhabit, remain, inhere); by implication, to cohabit:—dwell. See also 
    Hello guest!
.

AND

υμένη.  There is no Strong’s number for it, but by putting it into Google translator I came up with the meaning “hymen”. (Also as υμένας) , a word from ancient Greek. And of course the meaning of “hymen” signifies virginity.

Consequently, I see this as the “virgin dwelling/home”.  Isa 62:4,11; 2 Cor 11:2; Rev 14:4

Matt 13:23 -  “the seed fell on good soil” (earth, land and the same word for “earth” in Romans 10:18 )

We know this parable signifies how receptive our heart is to truth.

1 Cor 3:9  -  “For we are God’s fellow workers; you are God’s field, you are God’s building”. (a cultivated field, husbandry, tillage)

God’s anointed ones face the refinement of the heart, according to the measuring line of truth, (Rev 11:1) and cultivated by God’s standards.  Eze 36:27  Only then, upon sealing are they acceptable members of Christ’s Bride.  John 14:2,23; Rev 3:12

 Why do you believe that the preaching of the "good news" is specifically to the scattered remnant of God's Chosen ones - within the Watchtower congregations? What makes the Watchtower so special in your view?

here is no other “religion” that I know of where God’s true anointed ones reside. Shouldn’t we ask why they are all in one place that has given us bits of truth? 

“Decoy” - lure or entice (a person or animal) away from an intended course, typically into a trap.

“Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves.  You will know them by their fruits. Matt 7:15,16

Why type of spiritual fruit grows on the “trees” of the anointed leaders of the organization, from its inception until now?  John 7:16-18

“Be of sober spirit, be on the alert. Your adversary, the devil, prowls around like a roaring lion, seeking someone to devour.”  1 Pet 5:8

 Isa 5:13; 2 Cor 11:3; Matt 24;24,25; Luke 21:24; Rev 13:10,16,7; 16:13-15; Dan 11:33

I have made mention of the “fourth beast” of Daniel and Revelation – the last deceptive entity that the “remaining ones of the woman’s seed” faces during the final days.  Satan offered Christ all the kingdoms of the world; would he not do the same to Christ’s brothers? Christ’s potential “kings” are choosing their own “kingdoms” through the organization.  Satan’s final tactics are his last, and must be so deceptive as to “shine” as Truth, pulling in to one place all of the remaining anointed ones, and using Christ’s own brothers as his agents. 1 Tim 4:1   Every caution we read in scripture prepares us for this day and the fulfillment of the two beasts of Revelation. Dan 7:19; Rev 13:2-4; 13:11   You may want to read 2 Thess 2:1-12 on the coming of the “lawless one”.

The Last Harlot and Her Beast - 4womaninthewilderness.blogspot.com/2012/12/here-is-earlier-post-with-updates.html

The anointed are “scattered” within the organization, through their anonymity; not coming together as a Body in any sense outlined in scripture; especially during the Memorial service which is so oppressive.  Paul used the marriage of two people as an example for those in Christ. Eph 5:25-28,31,32 If we take this example seriously, we should see that Christ, as a loving husband would not expect his composite Bride to be scattered, but as one Body in Christ.  Rom 12:4,5; John 17:20,21  How can those in Christ be as one if they are not to “seek out others who claim to have the same calling hoping to bond with them” as the Watchtower claims?  Their bonding as one leads to the promised Kingdom, which is what we all want!  Who would prevent this, but Satan?  Gen 3:15; Rev 12:4

1 Cor 12:25,26 – “so that there should be no division in the body, but that its parts should have equal concern for each other. If one part suffers, every part suffers with it; if one part is honored, every part rejoices with it.”

Yet, there is a gathering of these “kings” in the Watchtower, for the location of “Armageddon” – where Christ’s “divisive sword” penetrates each heart of the anointed ones, and all who reside within its walls.  Luke 12:49-51  Armageddon is fought in the “low plain of decision”, but we can be assured Satan will attempt to make a physical display as well.  The scriptures warn us to “walk by faith, not by sight”.   Joel 3:14; Rev 19:19; 2 Cor 5:7; John 3:12

One more question while I think of it. Do you understand the meaning of "world" as God's "inhabited or occupied place/dwelling" to mean something like the opposite of the "wilderness" in Revelation 12?

I see the wilderness of Revelation 12 as a time of further testing, sifting and refinement for those who are God’s “occupied home”.  Jesus was tested by Satan for 40 days and nights in the wilderness in Matt 4:1-11.  Christ’s brothers suffer the same persecutions in a symbolic way, a continuous cleansing and refinement before receiving their inheritance, even after their own personal victory of breaking free of the “wild beast” of Revelation.  The nation of Israel was in the wilderness for 40 years once free from Egypt’s bondage, also a time to humble and test God’s people. Deut 8:2  God’s anointed must also follow a similar path for a symbolic time.  Zech 13:9; 1 Cor 3:13   As God fed his people manna while in the wilderness, for all today during their time in the “wilderness”, the Marriage Feast from Christ becomes abundant nourishment to sustain us. Rev 3:20

Matt 24:28; Rev 12:14  

(Isa 52:2; 61:1-11 ) 

I hope the scriptures are right.

 

 

 

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3 hours ago, JW Insider said:

Therefore, whenever the Governing Body is not open and clear and transparent about publishing its directions to all, then the reason for hiding it is necessarily because we know that there was something wrong with the ingredients. Whenever a member of the Governing Body is reluctant to speak out in person to explain what we do and why in every matter, doctrinal, financial, and legal, then they must be aware that there is something toxic to someone, something embarrassing to someone. Otherwise we would embrace every opportunity:

I do not think this is necessarily true. I do believe there is a time and place for confidentiality. And I can understand that it becomes enormously difficult to find the right balance in an organization so vast, and comprised of so many cultures, nations and social backgrounds, and levels of intelligence. Don't get me wrong, I too wish for more transparency, but I also realize that we just do NOT know the whole story on many internal matters, and very often it is impossible for ALL to know the whole story.

We have been able to become privy to the issue of Child sexual abuse to some extend thanks to the ARC, but even there I can see where it was just too complex for a categorical conclusion. I remember in the early 80's when publications dealing with child sexual abuse came out, and I kind of poopoed it thinking the society is getting a little paranoid again. Especially when I was reading about parents not allowed to touch their children. I grew up in Europe, and our view of American culture was that they are a little over the top when it comes to natural nudity etc. (a little ironic since one of the biggest porn industries is in the US) I was used to seeing little children running around with no clothes in the summer. Little did I know that these articles were being published because of a NEED! Now looking back, I wonder how many readers took these articles to heart? And the problem, did those who really NEEDED to read these articles actually do so? Most probably not, because many of those who it was addressing, were on the fringes of the congregations or merely associating with it. And did those who actually read the articles put them into practice? I am assuming that those who were diligent in applying advise and counsel did, but those who were spiritually low and negligent didn't. Or what about those who belonged to a dysfunctional family such as Candace Conti's parents? I do not imagine either of them took any note, or applied the advice in those magazines. This is where the GB have assumed that if they "put it out there in the form of publications" no further action is needed. This was and is their biggest mistake I think. IF they had come straight out  in those days and said that some congregations are having problems with child sexual abuse, so be aware,  I wonder what would have happened. Then again, those who would have really needed to hear it, might not have even been at the meeting, as is often the case! So this is where I see the difficulty, it is just so complex. And I can understand the GB's attitude of "prevention is better than cure", and in an ideal situation that would work great,  but unfortunately you are addressing all kinds of people, the dysfunctional, the mentally unstable and those who are JW's in name only. How can you control what those people do? You can't. And that's the problem. And this is where I think the GB will have to admit that they are going to have to change their policies not just regarding prevention, but helping those who have already become victims.

Even now, the GB seem to be skirting the issue by putting out stories of sexual abuse victims, (video on broadcasting) but the abuser was a worldly person and the sister was abused before she came into the truth. Why not make a video of someone who was abused by an elder or "reputable" brother in the congregation? I can perhaps see why, but they could do so anonymously to protect the identity of both the victim and perpetrator, as is often done in documentaries. Is it perhaps because we would feel "cheesy" having criticized the Catholics for a similar thing? (there is a difference, but many might not discern this)......

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10 hours ago, JW Insider said:

When various documented elements of our organizational history are not just hidden but consistently reviewed with a false spin (whitewash) then it is clear that the intent is to hide the fact that past servings have been "toxic," and this makes the current purpose of such review suspect as toxic too.

Unfortunately we (GB) have always seemed to have this peculiar little problem with speaking directly. It brings to mind the disappointments regarding 1975 and how it took all of 5 years before the WT 80 3/5  clarified a statement made in the 1976 WT:

"In its issue of July 15, 1976, The Watchtower, commenting on the inadvisability of setting our sights on a certain date, stated: “If anyone has been disappointed through not following this line of thought, he should now concentrate on adjusting his viewpoint, seeing that it was not the word of God that failed or deceived him and brought disappointment, but that his own understanding was based on wrong premises.” In saying “anyone,” The Watchtower included all disappointed ones of Jehovah’s Witnesses, hence including persons having to do with the publication of the information that contributed to the buildup of hopes centered on that date".

Of course it was obvious that anyone who had set their sights on 1975 only did so because of "the persons publishing that information" and not because they had somehow come up with it themselves. Duh!  But why couldn't this have been said in a more direct way in the first place? It is evident that until things change, we have to be on our toes, play detectives, and keep on trying to figure out what is actually being said :D:D

 

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9 hours ago, Anna said:

"In its issue of July 15, 1976, The Watchtower, commenting on the inadvisability of setting our sights on a certain date, stated: “If anyone has been disappointed through not following this line of thought, he should now concentrate on adjusting his viewpoint, seeing that it was not the word of God that failed or deceived him and brought disappointment, but that his own understanding was based on wrong premises.” In saying “anyone,” The Watchtower included all disappointed ones of Jehovah’s Witnesses, hence including persons having to do with the publication of the information that contributed to the buildup of hopes centered on that date".

The most amazing transformation to someone's thinking that I ever witnessed up-close-and-personally was when my mother read this article and apparently took it to heart immediately. I had been pioneering full-time since May 1973 with 2 to 3 other pioneers and as of February 1976 my mother also began pioneering with us full-time. Most weekdays we would all meet at the Hall in the morning and worked separately with congregation members who showed up for the meeting for service and work with them until about noon, usually, and then the 4 pioneers would meet up again at the Hall around 1pm to pair up in two car groups for RVs until 3pm and Bible studies afterwards. My mother drove a station wagon that held all five of us comfortably, and she always paid for all the gas, so on Fridays at 1pm all the pioneers would pile into the station wagon; I'd drive, and we'd work out the most efficient routes for all of us to get to a bunch of RVs anywhere between the Hall and a 50-mile radius. This led to a lot of long conversations and Kingdom Song marathons.

1975 came up a lot in those months, and we even had to deal with it door-to-door, with RVs and from our Bible study students. But in the car conversations, as of May 1976, my mother was the first to decide that the WTS had absolutely no culpability and that 1975 was completely our own doing -- but that the end would still probably come within a year because Jehovah could have brought all the animals to Adam in the same year in which he created Eve. Her view was obviously based on the Watchtower she had just read. I left for Bethel around the first of August 1976 and this Watchtower was the first one I studied with the entire Bethel family (at the Bethel Monday-night Watchtower Study.) I was amazed that the Bethelite's comments on that paragraph were exactly like my mother's. I also learned that nothing had changed with respect to the actual date of Armageddon being tied to the start of the 7th 1000-year day, and therefore the unknown amount of time between Adam's creation and Eve's creation. This was in the very same issue, and I couldn't believe we were still pushing the speculation on how long Adam would have stayed alone, and then saying that the speculation was on the part of the reader.

A full NINE PARAGRAPHS, more than one-third of the first study article, specifically dealt with speculation on how long Adam might have been in the garden prior to Eve, and that this was the main reason we didn't know the exact time!

The nine paragraphs concluded with this one:

*** w76 7/15 p. 437 par. 25 Keeping a Balanced View of Time ***
What, then, does this mean? Simply this: That these factors, and the possibilities for which they allow, prevent us from saying with any positiveness how much time elapsed between Adam’s creation and that of the first woman. We do not know whether it was a brief time such as a month or a few months, a year or even more. But whatever time elapsed would have to be added to the time that has passed since Adam’s creation in order for us to know how far along we are within God’s seventh “day,” his grand day of rest. So our having advanced six thousand years from the start of human existence is one thing. Advancing six thousand years into God’s seventh creative “day” is quite another. And we do not know just how far along in the stream of time we are in this regard.

Another point that didn't bother me at the time, but one I noticed later, was that the paragraph following the one you quoted goes to a typical type of rationalizing when a mistake is made. It's the one that says that the timing might have been off but it was still the right thing. In other words, "the right thing at the wrong time" as Brother MacMillan put it. Here's the paragraph:

*** w76 7/15 p. 441 par. 16 A Solid Basis for Confidence ***
16 However, say that you are one who counted heavily on a date, and, commendably, set your attention more strictly on the urgency of the times and the need of the people to hear. And say you now, temporarily, feel somewhat disappointed; are you really the loser? Are you really hurt? We believe you can say that you have gained and profited by taking this conscientious course. Also, you have been enabled to get a really mature, more reasonable viewpoint.—Eph. 5:1-17.

This reminded me of the similar comments made about the correct view of Romans 13 that Russell had in the 1870's, which Rutherford changed to an incorrect view, but which was changed back to the correct view in the 1960's. It was wrong food, but the at the right time, because, as the publications inadvertently indicated, Christians somehow needed incorrect doctrine during the turbulent times of the 1930's, 1940's, 1950's up to the 1960's.

This kind of made it ironic that the very study article in 1976 that you quoted from included a secondary article on the same page that brings us full circle to the subject of this particular topic. Sharing the page with the study article is a small article squeezed onto the bottom of the page, called, you guessed it: "Who is the Faithful and Discreet Slave?"

*** w76 7/15 p. 443 ‘Who Is the Faithful and Discreet Slave?’ ***
Jesus’ words revealed that during all this long period of time there would be a “faithful and discreet slave” who would be giving God’s household “their food at the proper time.”—Matt. 24:45.
. . . Their duty while on earth has been to disseminate spiritual food among the members of the household of God, especially seeing that they are equipped spiritually to face the issues confronting them from time to time.

 

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12 hours ago, AllenSmith said:

The slave class can be as infallible as the apostles. Did God remove them from their commission? once again, by whose authority do you profess to challenge God's anointed?

By the "slave class" I am guessing you mean the GB.  Your reaction is exactly why the anointed in the congregations languish in hesitancy and timidity in standing up for the truth. The only authority you appear to recognize is the GB and the elders.   Ps 142:6; Isa 59:10;  2 Cor 6:17; Ps 66:12; 1 John 2:26

    Hello guest!

Each anointed one has the obligation and authority to speak truth in Christ.  1 John 2:20,27; 1 Pet 2:5,9  

    Hello guest!

“And now, O priests, this commandment is for you.
 If you will not hear,
And if you will not take it to heart,
To give glory to My name,”
Says the Lord of hosts,
“I will send a curse upon you,
And I will curse your blessings.
Yes, I have cursed them already,
Because you do not take it to heart.” Mal 2:1,2

“For the lips of a priest should keep knowledge,
And people should seek the law from his mouth;

For he is the messenger of the Lord of hosts.
 But you have departed from the way;
You have caused many to stumble at the law
.
You have corrupted the covenant of Levi,”
Says the Lord of hosts.
Therefore I also have made you contemptible and base
Before all the people,

Because you have not kept My ways
But have shown partiality in the law.”  Mal 2:7-9

Deliberately, the GB have disregarded their members in Christ, cutting them off by refusing to accept Christ’s arrangement.  1 Cor 12:20,21  Each part of the Body of Christ provides sustenance to the whole.  The knowledge of truth requires it. 

By denying their own members, they essentially have denied Christ.  1 John 2:18,19,22,23,26; 2 John 1:27    

    Hello guest!

“ For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive the things done in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad.  2 Cor 5:10

Rom 12:5-8, 10,13    

    Hello guest!

Paul dealt with those “puffed up with pride”.  Do you question his authority when he stood up to them? 

1 Cor 4:6-13;2 Cor 11:12-15;19-21  

    Hello guest!

Do you question Christ’s warning to beware of the “Kings of the Gentiles” (elder body) “who exercise lordship over them” (“obey the elders”),

and those “who exercise authority over them (that being, the elder body),

 and “who are called “benefactors – a “title of honor” (“faithful and discreet slave”)?    Luke 22:24-27

I am acting on my obligation and authority given by Christ, and as a “good for nothing slave” – to speak truth and expose Watchtower lies about the Christ.  Luke 17:10  Finally, after many years of obeying men.  There are others as well, including Ray Franz.  I pray I strengthen my faith daily in doing so, being found acceptable in the day of our Lord. 1 Cor 10:12,13

Ezek 34:2,8,10; 22:25; Micah 3:11 

    Hello guest!

Using exceptionally covert tactics, the GB and the organization has hidden the necessary reality of the Body of Christ from JWs; a prophetic fulfillment for the time of the end.

“Through his cunning
He shall cause deceit to prosper under his rule;
And he shall exalt himself in his heart.
He shall destroy many in their prosperity.
He shall even rise against the Prince of princes;
But he shall be broken without human means.” Dan 8:25

“He shall speak pompous words against the Most High, Shall persecute the saints of the Most High, And shall intend to change times and law. Then the saints shall be given into his hand For a time and times and half a time.”  Dan 7:25

“I was watching; and the same horn was making war against the saints, and prevailing against them,  until the Ancient of Days came, and a judgment was made in favor of the saints of the Most High, and the time came for the saints to possess the kingdom.”  Dan 7:22

You say, “Did God remove them from their commission”

God has removed many from their commission, we have the Hebrew and Greek scriptures to prove it. 

 

 

 

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6 hours ago, JW Insider said:

my mother was the first to decide that the WTS had absolutely no culpability and that 1975 was completely our own doing -- but that the end would still probably come within a year because Jehovah could have brought all the animals to Adam in the same year in which he created Eve.

I can understand that, sometimes we can get so bogged down that we can't see the trees for the forest. This is why it's good to step back at times and look at things from a fresh angle. Also, we would all love for the end to come in OUR life time, so it's the natural thing to speculate and I believe that what you mom thought was the next best explanation for the "delay" as demonstrated by the comments of the Bethelites as well. But as we know, all of it was just speculation, just like the present Generation explanation is just speculation. And I don't think there is anything wrong with speculation, it's only dangerous when one bases their entire hope and faith on it.....

6 hours ago, JW Insider said:

*** w76 7/15 p. 441 par. 16 A Solid Basis for Confidence ***
16 However, say that you are one who counted heavily on a date, and, commendably, set your attention more strictly on the urgency of the times and the need of the people to hear. And say you now, temporarily, feel somewhat disappointed; are you really the loser? Are you really hurt? We believe you can say that you have gained and profited by taking this conscientious course. Also, you have been enabled to get a really mature, more reasonable viewpoint.—Eph. 5:1-17.

I must admit I can see the reasoning here and this is why I chose to "get a really mature, more reasonable viewpoint" regarding the present Generation explanation :D

6 hours ago, JW Insider said:

This kind of made it ironic that the very study article in 1976 that you quoted from included a secondary article on the same page that brings us full circle to the subject of this particular topic.

And there will be another discussion about the "Slave" in the Feb 2017 study edition of the WT, which I'm sure you've already read. So with regard to that, and going back on topic, what is your understanding of the "Slave" as per the parable? (In one or two sentences :D)

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5 hours ago, AllenSmith said:

An erred perception perpetrated by individuals, NOT the society. However, the WTS did have to reference it in 1976, not to clarify their understanding of 1975, but to clarify the foolishness of some witnesses thinking about 1975.

If you mean "erred perception perpetrated by individuals" to mean certain members of the GB then you are right. But if you mean certain individuals among the congregations then you are wrong. Members of the congregations only had this wrong perception about 1975 because of strong insinuations by the GB. This is a fact which the GB themselves admit. ("Unfortunately, however, along with such cautionary information, there were other statements published that implied that such realization of hopes by that year was more of a probability than a mere possibility. It is to be regretted that these latter statements apparently overshadowed the cautionary ones and contributed to a buildup of the expectation already initiated"  WT 1980 3/15 p.17) I am sure JWInsider would be able to dig up those specific statements that implied that the realization of hopes were a probability.

However, I do agree that it is erroneous and foolish to accept anything and everything the GB insinuates without first checking if "this is so".

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13 minutes ago, AllenSmith said:

Yes, I’ve heard this argument up to now by ex-witnesses. Once again, misunderstanding what the WTS was attempting to convey with the complication of the 6000 years in 1975. The “Possibility” and “Probability” referenced here is, for the assertion on the timing of that event, NOT a correction, for the benefit of the WTS, but a correction for those that foolishly misunderstood. So, this Statement was made to correct the misconception that some witnesses had toward 1975, that wanted to see a complication in prophecy. A delusional aspect conjured in their minds NOT the WTS.

I know what you are trying to say, but YOU are actually the one who is misunderstanding. The argument is quite easy to settle. If what you said above really was the case, then why would the study edition of the February 2017 WT direct readers to:  " ..... Watch Tower Publications Index  “Beliefs Clarified,” which lists adjustments in our Scriptural understanding"?  There, under the caption 1975 you will find a reference to "Jehovah's Witnesses - Proclaimers of God's Kingdom" book, which subsequently directs you to the WT and the quotes from it we have been discussing (WT 76 & 80). Just check it out for yourself. Go to ONLINE LIBRARY -> Publications Index -> Subject Index -> Beliefs clarified -> dates ->1975

So it is not an argument conjured up by ex-witnesses, it is what the writers of the WT are saying. The writers are the ones who have had to adjust their understanding too, not just the readers.

 

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19 hours ago, Anna said:

And there will be another discussion about the "Slave" in the Feb 2017 study edition of the WT, which I'm sure you've already read. So with regard to that, and going back on topic, what is your understanding of the "Slave" as per the parable? (In one or two sentences :D)

No I can't say it in one or two sentences. It's a handicap I just have to live with, even if it makes others suffer.  :D

I think an even better discussion about the slave comes up in the March 2017 study edition of the WT, which I'm sure you already read, too.

Remember that the two most important features of this slave are "faith" and "discretion" (or "faith" and "wisdom", KJV, AS). Appropriately, the title of the article is "Exercise Faith—Decide Wisely!"

And when we study it, we'll sing Song 35 that opens with the words: "How great our need today for discernment . . . " which is, of course, wisdom and discretion.

Obviously, we use the terms "service," "servants," and "slaves" fairly often with reference to all true Christians. In congregational prayer, any of us can refer to Jehovah or even Jesus himself as our Lord, Owner, or Master and no one bats an eyelash (especially if their eyes are already closed).

So while the February article makes several statements that are quite difficult to back up with scripture, the March article makes some very appropriate statements applying to us all, and they fit the entire context of Jesus' parable. If you don't have the issue in hand, you can find the article here: 

    Hello guest!

I'll quote a few portions:

Hence, the ability to make good decisions can help us to live a relatively smooth, peaceful life rather than one that is full of chaos, controversy, and disappointment.

    Hello guest!
. [which says: "By wisdom the shrewd man understands the way he is going, But the stupid are deceived by their foolishness."]

. . . Accordingly, we develop the habit of consulting God’s Word before making decisions. . . .

The above-mentioned examples convey to us a clear lesson. It is up to each of us to make decisions, and the wise, right choices are based on sound Scriptural knowledge. Galatians 6:5 reminds us: “Each one will carry his own load of responsibility.” (Ftn.) We should not give someone else the responsibility to make decisions for us. Rather, we should personally learn what is right in God’s eyes and choose to do it.

. . . Still, no matter how others try to pressure us, it is our responsibility to follow our Bible-trained conscience. In many respects, if we let others make our decisions, we are essentially deciding to “follow them.” It is still a choice, but a potentially disastrous one.

The apostle Paul clearly alerted the Galatians to the danger of letting others make personal decisions for them. (Read Galatians 4:17.) Some in the congregation wanted to make personal choices for others . . . Those selfish ones were seeking prominence. They overstepped proper bounds and did not respect their fellow Christians’ responsibility to make their own decisions.

Paul set a fine example of respecting his brothers’ right of free will to make decisions. (Read 2 Corinthians 1:24.) [which says: "Not that we are the masters over your faith, but we are fellow workers for your joy, for it is by your faith that you are standing. "] Today, when giving counsel on matters involving personal choice, the elders should follow that pattern. They are happy to share Bible-based information with others in the flock. Still, the elders are careful to allow individual brothers and sisters to make their own decisions. That is logical because those individuals will bear the responsibility for the results. Here is an important lesson: We can show helpful interest in others and call attention to Scriptural principles or counsel. Still, others have a right and responsibility to make their own decisions. When they do this wisely, they benefit. Clearly, we should avoid any tendency to think that we are authorized to make decisions for other brothers and sisters.

... When we take the time to weigh carefully all the aspects or facts related to a decision, we will likely be more successful. (1 Thess. 5:21) [which says: "Make sure of all things. . . ."] Before determining a course of action, a family head ought to take the time to research the Scriptures and Christian publications, as well as to consider the opinions or views of others in his family. Recall that God urged Abraham to listen to what his wife had to say. (Gen. 21:9-12) Elders too should take time to do research. And if they are reasonable, modest men, they will not fear losing respect if new, relevant information comes to their attention that indicates a need to reconsider what they had already decided. They should be ready to adjust their thinking and decisions when appropriate, and all of us do well to follow that example. This can promote peace and order in the congregation.—Acts 6:1-4.

. . . Thus, it is vital to draw on the Bible as the best source of advice and to seek Jehovah’s guidance in prayer. And bear in mind that Jehovah can give us the qualities we need to make decisions that are in harmony with his will. When facing important decisions, make it a practice to ask: ‘Will this decision give evidence of my love for Jehovah? Will it bring joy and peace to my family? And will it show that I am patient and kind?’

. . . Jehovah does not coerce us into loving him and serving him. That is our choice. In line with the free will that he grants us, he respects our responsibility and right to ‘choose for ourselves’ whether we will serve him. (Josh. 24:15; Eccl. 5:4) . . . With faith in Jehovah’s way of doing things and the principles that he has kindly provided, we can make wise decisions and prove ourselves steady in all our ways.

---------- end of quotes -------------------

So, I'm sorry if that was long. I'm not saying that the words of Matthew 24:45 and Luke 12:42 should not also apply to the Governing Body, or even all who profess to be of the anointed, but there is no Biblical reason to limit it. In a practical way, all of us are expected to understand that we are obedient in our service to the Master, and all of us are expected to show patience and to carry out our responsibilities of service in a serious and orderly manner. "What is looked for in a steward is to be found faithful," to paraphrase the apostle Paul.

But Jesus wasn't necessarily referring to a specific type of Christian arrangement or organization here. He wasn't necessarily speaking of specific areas of responsibility that referred only to some Christians and not to other Christians. And even if he did, there is nothing in the illustration that says it should apply only to "anointed" Christians. Or that the food spoken of here is supposed to refer to "spiritual" food. In our own view of matters, the Watchtower's view, we hardly expect that there would even be 1 out of 1,000 Christians who would claim to be "anointed" when the Master returns. And if it referred only to a very limited Governing Body who had been associated as officers of a legal corporation for about 50 years (per the February article) and who then later understood that they were actually a different kind of Governing Body for the last 50 years (rounded), then the entire parable refers to only about 30 people in total. Do we really believe that Jesus was talking about giving a level of authority to only 30 people since 1919? And does it make sense then that Jesus says he is going to appoint "him" these 30 people, over all his belongings? How many of these 30 "anointed" members of the Governing Body do we expect to be here when Jesus returns? 7, 4, 2, maybe even just 1 (or less)?

In previous parables, Jesus referred to a household that was going to be broken into by a thief. Does that mean Jesus is a thief? Obviously not! It's a parable that lets us think about how someone would have to be awake all night to avoid being surprised by a thief. The idea was that Christians could then think about what it might mean to be prepared at all times because they would never know the day or the hour of Jesus' return.

Similarly, Jesus gives an illustration here that might not have anything to do with specific functions that any of us might perform, but it's still one that makes us think about how certain circumstances would require patient, orderly and obedient servitude, and the kinds of trouble they would be in, after a surprise, thief-like return of their master.

I say this because all Jesus asked us to do was imagine a situation where a rich and harsh* master counts on some of his servants to be obedient to keep things going smoothly when he is gone. Jesus doesn't say that he is the rich and harsh master in the illustration, any more than he says that he is a thief in the previous illustration. Jesus wants us to imagine what would happen if those persons who were left in charge of the food supply of that household began taking advantage and started over-eating, and getting drunk, and ordering other servants around to do their own bidding instead of the instructions of their master. When the master returns he is going to be mad enough to chop some of them in half, literally. But if servants remain faithful in these circumstances, the master will be pleased enough to reward them.

*I mentioned that the master is "harsh" because he actually is spoken of as chopping the body of the wicked servant in half. Some translators prefer not to translate it this way, because we have a built in prejudice that the master here refers specifically to Jesus, and it makes him sound cruel. The NWT says:

(Matthew 24:51) . . .and he will punish him with the greatest severity. . .

This is a play on words, since he will be severed in two. As the KJV says: " And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites. . . "

 

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Well.......thank you for making me suffer! xD Just kidding

 

1 hour ago, JW Insider said:

I'm not saying that the words of Matthew 24:45 and Luke 12:42 should not also apply to the Governing Body, or even all who profess to be of the anointed, but there is no Biblical reason to limit it. In a practical way, all of us are expected to understand that we are obedient in our service to the Master, and all of us are expected to show patience and to carry out our responsibilities of service in a serious and orderly manner

You are right, there does not seem a Biblical reason to limit it, more of a logical and practical reason as in "feeding many through the hands of a few" 

    Hello guest!
    But I do understand how it pertains to all of us in the sense that it is the responsibility of all (as per the March WT you referenced).

1 hour ago, JW Insider said:

How many of these 30 "anointed" members of the Governing Body do we expect to be here when Jesus returns? 7, 4, 2, maybe even just 1 (or less)?

I was always under the impression that they would be put in charge of all the master's belongings when they were all in heaven anyway.....?

1 hour ago, JW Insider said:

I say this because all Jesus asked us to do was imagine a situation where a rich and harsh* master counts on some of his servants to be obedient to keep things going smoothly when he is gone. Jesus doesn't say that he is the rich and harsh master in the illustration, any more than he says that he is a thief in the previous illustration. Jesus wants us to imagine what would happen if those persons who were left in charge of the food supply of that household began taking advantage and over-eating, and getting drunk, and ordering other servants around to do their own bidding instead of the instructions of their master. When the master returns he is going to be mad enough to chop some of them in half, literally. But if servants remain faithful in these circumstances, the master will be pleased enough to reward them.

You raise some valid points.

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20 hours ago, AllenSmith said:

Wrong again, The WTS is consistent when reminding active witnesses NOT to be speculating, about setting dates. That list is made for that reason. The WTS uses Subject/Object Pronouns as “US” or “WE” not to seem arrogant or conceited. How would people feel if the WTS simply stated, “stop thinking stupidly”. It wouldn’t sit too well. But in essence, that’s the bottom line. 

Now you are speculating on what the WT meant! I agree, the WT is consistent in reminding Witnesses not to be speculating about setting dates. But I ask myself, why then did the WT even mention 1975? Wasn't that a date? Why was it discussed in the first place? Why even go into the calculations of 6000 years and God's rest etc.?  Was it not to highlight where we may be in the stream of time? And wasn't that speculation itself? Why even mention all of it? What significance does the date 1975 have now? (except for discussions such as this) None at all! So you can see how unnecessary it was to mention that date in the first place!

You are deceiving yourself Allen if you think that those who came up with that idea in the first place didn't have in mind that Armageddon may come in 1975. 

 

 

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3 minutes ago, Anna said:

I agree, the WT is consistent in reminding Witnesses not to be speculating about setting dates. But I ask myself, why then did the WT even mention 1975? Wasn't that a date? Why was it discussed in the first place? Why even go into the calculations of 6000 years and God's rest etc.?  Was it not to highlight where we may be in the stream of time? And wasn't that speculation itself? Why even mention all of it? What significance does the date 1975 have now? (except for discussions such as this) None at all! So you can see how unnecessary it was to mention that date in the first place!

You are deceiving yourself Allen if you think that those who came up with that idea in the first place didn't have in mind that Armageddon may come in 1975. 

A couple things here. One is that Allen has made some good points in all of his posts up until these ones about 1975. But even here, he is right that no one said anything about Armageddon coming in 1975. Ex-JWs and opposers often say something like this, but the speculation was not about 1975, per se, but about the time period surrounding (and including) 1975.

Remember that the cover of the magazines not only said: "Why are you looking forward to 1975?" but "What Will the 1970's Bring?"

1975 was the end of 6,000 years of man's existence. Franz had wavered from 1976 to 1974 on this, but after 1976 was dropped and, obviously if even 1974 was a possibility, then the 6,000 years were definitely up by 1975. But Franz never lost site of the difference in time between the creation of Adam and the creation of Eve. This problem had been brought up already by Brother Russell himself.

But you will see 1976 come up as the new, end of 6,000 years of man's existence even in Watchtowers from the 1940's. It was brought up again in the 1955 Watchower, along with talk of Eve and how long it takes to name the animals:

*** w55 2/1 p. 95 Questions From Readers ***
According to Genesis 1:24-31 Adam was created during the last part of the sixth creative-day period of 7,000 years. Almost all independent chronologists assume incorrectly that, as soon as Adam was created, then began Jehovah’s seventh seven-thousand-year period of the creative week. Such then figure that from Adam’s creation, now thought to be the fall of 4025 B.C., why, six thousand years of God’s rest day would be ending in the fall of 1976. However, from our present chronology (which is admitted imperfect) at best the fall of the year 1976 would be the end of 6,000 years of human history for mankind, 6,000 years of man’s existence on the earth, not 6,000 years of Jehovah’s seventh seven-thousand-year period. Why not? Because Adam lived some time after his creation in the latter part of Jehovah’s sixth creative period, before the seventh period, Jehovah’s sabbath, began.
Why, it must have taken Adam quite some time to name all the animals, as he was commissioned to do. Further, it appears from the New World Bible Translation that, even while Adam was naming the animals, other family kinds of living creatures were being created for Adam to designate by name. (Gen. 2:19 footnote d, NW) It was not until after Adam completed this assignment of work that his helpmate Eve was created. Since God created nothing new whatever on the seventh day, Eve must have been created on the sixth day; and this the divine record confirms in its account of the sixth day: “God proceeded to create the man in his image, in God’s image he created him; male and female he created them.”—Gen. 1:27, NW.
The very fact that, as part of Jehovah’s secret, no one today is able to find out how much time Adam and later Eve lived during the closing days of the sixth creative period, so no one can now determine when six thousand years of Jehovah’s present rest day come to an end. Obviously, whatever amount of Adam’s 930 years was lived before the beginning of that seventh-day rest of Jehovah, that unknown amount would have to be added to the 1976 date.

 

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9 hours ago, Anna said:

I agree, the WT is consistent in reminding Witnesses not to be speculating about setting dates.

This is actually another point to reconsider. Looking back, the Watchtower might appear to be consistent because we can find several of these reminders in the WT going back to Bible Student days. But there is actually a fairly consistent pattern that highlights how inconsistent these reminders have been. The pattern goes like this:

  • STEP 1: Early on, when the chronology doctrine is first presented, it's rather tentative, and might have some reminders about not speculating and the need for caution.
  • STEP 2: Then as the doctrine has been out there a few years and gets brought up a few more times, it tends to become more sure, and almost gets set in stone.
  • STEP 3: As the time period approaches more closely and it seems unlikely that all the expectations surrounding the time period could really come true in time, then we see cautious statements again, and either just before or just after the failure has past, we sometimes get outright denials that any of the things said in STEP 2, were actually said. 

When we are defending our past chronology doctrines, and non-prophet status, we will point to the statements from STEP 1 and STEP 3.

Ex-JWs and "opposers" are more likely to only quote from STEP 2. This is the time period when the dates start becoming, as Russell said, "God's dates, not ours." And we see statements about how nothing can be moved by even one year without throwing off the entire plan. Or we see claims that some of these "pyramid inches" have been measured to within a fraction of an inch. Or that 1925 is even more well established than 1914. And this is of course when the period surrounding 1975 becomes more of a probability than a possibility. 1975 becomes, in effect, an "appropriate time for God to act." If we bring up the fact that Jesus said no one knows the day or the hour, we might get a snarky response that "now is not the time to be toying with Jesus' words." Etc., etc., etc.

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19 minutes ago, JW Insider said:

But even here, he is right that no one said anything about Armageddon coming in 1975.

No, but wasnt that the logical conclusion? Because isn't Armageddon the end to oppression by Satan followed by the beginning of the 1000 years of Christ's rule? Wasn't 1975 (or that period) believed to be the end of the 6,000 years and the beginning of the Jubilee?

“Life Everlasting – In Freedom of the sons of men” 1966

P. 28  under the heading “Six Thousand Years of Human Existence Now Closing” – “The time is fast drawing near for the reality that was foreshadowed by the Jubilee of liberty to be proclaimed throughout the earth to all mankind now oppressed by many enslaved things”……

P. 29 “ According to this trustworthy Bible chronology six thousand years from man’s creation will end in 1975, and the seventh period of a thousand years in human history will begin in the fall of 1975 C.E…… “So in not many years within our own generation we are reaching what Jehovah God could view as the seventh day of man’s existence.”

P. 30 “How appropriate it would be for Jehovah God to make this coming seventh period of a thousand years a Sabbath period of rest and release, a great Jubilee Sabbath for the proclaiming of liberty throughout the earth to all its inhabitants!…… “It would not be by mere chance or accident but would be according to the loving purpose of Jehovah God for the reign of Jesus Christ, the Lord of the Sabbath” to run parallel with the seventh millennium of man’s existence…… “Consequently there is now every reason why the human creation will be set free, not by men, but by Almighty God. The long awaited time for this is at hand!

 

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1 hour ago, JW Insider said:

But even here, he is right that no one said anything about Armageddon coming in 1975.

Addition to my comment above:

WT 66 10/15 p. 628

"To give aid today in this critical time to prospective sons of God,” announced President Knorr, “a new book in English, entitled ‘Life Everlasting—in Freedom of the Sons of God,’ has been published.” At all assembly points where it was released, the book was received enthusiastically. Crowds gathered around stands and soon supplies of the book were depleted. Immediately its contents were examined. It did not take the brothers very long to find the chart beginning on page 31, showing that 6,000 years of man’s existence end in 1975. Discussion of 1975 overshadowed about everything else. “The new book compels us to realize that Armageddon is, in fact, very close indeed,” said a conventioner."

I realize that this is not saying 1975 will be the start of Armageddon, but it is insinuation enough (sanctioned by the WT) to make some believe that it is indeed what is meant. Or could be meant :). The is the trouble with the way the WT's are sometimes written, is that they leave so much room for speculation and personal interpretation. There is so much ambiguity, as seen by our recent discussion regarding the March 2017 study....

 

 

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1 hour ago, JW Insider said:

This is actually another point to reconsider. Looking back, the Watchtower might appear to be consistent because we can find several of these reminders in the WT going back to Bible Student days. But there is actually a fairly consistent pattern that highlights how inconsistent these reminders have been. The pattern goes like this:

  • STEP 1: Early on, when the chronology doctrine is first presented, it's rather tentative, and might have some reminders about not speculating and the need for caution.
  • STEP 2: Then as the doctrine has been out there a few years and gets brought up a few more times, it tends to become more sure, and almost gets set in stone.
  • STEP 3: As the time period approaches more closely and it seems unlikely that all the expectations surrounding the time period could really come true in time, then we see cautious statements again, and either just before or just after the failure has past, we sometimes get outright denials that any of the things said in STEP 2, were actually said. 

When we are defending our past chronology doctrines, and non-prophet status, will point to the statements from STEP 1 and STEP 3.

Ex-JWs and "opposers" are more likely to only quote from STEP 2. This is the time period when the dates start becoming, as Russell said, "God's dates, not ours." And we see statements about how nothing can be moved by even one year without throwing off the entire plan. Or we see claims that some of these "pyramid inches" have been measured to within a fraction of an inch. Or that 1925 is even more well established than 1914. And this is of course when the period surrounding 1975 becomes more of a probability than a possibility. 1975 becomes, in effect, an "appropriate time for God to act." If we bring up the fact that Jesus said no one knows the day or the hour, we might get a snarky response that "now is not the time to be toying with Jesus' words." Etc., etc., etc.

Yes. Good observation :D

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3 hours ago, AllenSmith said:

Armageddon has been proclaimed since 33 CE, and even closer since 1914. Where are you people learning to overshadow scripture!

You can accept your own interpretation while seeing for yourselves your erred understanding even if it's placed on print, for you. Cynicism got to love it.

If you people haven’t figured it out, it implied the START of Tribulation ^_^

 

 

I don't think anybody is arguing about the proclamation of Armageddon. It's just the dates. Numbers. I remember a couple of years ago at our convention, one of the GB in his talk said: "We promise you, NO more dates!" And so far, as far as I know, they have kept their promise :)

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Allen,

Between this forum and jw-archive, this is easily the 100th time have quoted long passages without crediting your source. Sometimes you change a few words in the passages, and sometimes you even switch the word order around a bit. But it's always best practice to give credit where credit is due. The following came up at the top of my Google search when I typed in "plagiarism."

    Hello guest!

www.plagiarism.org/plagiarism-101/what-is-plagiarism/

The expression of original ideas is considered intellectual property and is protected by copyright laws, just like original inventions. ... copying words or ideas from someone else without giving credit. ... changing words but copying the sentence structure of a source without giving ...

I don't think anyone minds that you find and re-quote from commentaries, and other reference sources. Sometimes the information is very interesting and appropriate to the discussion. But I also know that more than one person has asked you if you could start crediting your sources, and I noticed you started including source references in two or three posts for about a week or so. But then you went right back to this old habit.

In the post you just made, it clearly includes a full quotation, and except for introducing some font and formatting issues, you made no significant changes other than the problem of juxtaposing it with statements by you, or quotes from Marilyn Monroe. So you make it difficult, sometimes, to know which quotes come from where, or where your ideas end and the ideas of someone else begin. Sometimes these quotes will even contain information that you don't even agree with, or information that gives evidence against the very point you make in your own statements which creates another difficulty. 

At any rate, I'd like to see you quote your sources, and others have said the same thing. We are all going to make mistakes on here and I, for one, always appreciate it if someone points them out.

4 hours ago, AllenSmith said:

Structurally, James states that the purpose of trials is to produce mature Christian character (1:2-4), but, knowing that discerning the purpose of trials is no easy matter even for the spiritually mature, James then exhorts the
messianic Jewish community to ask God for
wisdom when they encounter trials (1:3-8). Revealing just what he has in mind, James now turns to the specific form of trial the messianic Jewish community is encountering: it is facing poverty in the context of others having wealth (1:9-11). And James clearly sides with the poor who can learn to glory in their (paradoxical) exaltation. In his "plausibility structure,"2 to be poor means to be on the right side
of God's work.3 Finally, because James knows that his community will ask the penetrating question and that some are already questioning the goodness of God, he turns to how God relates to trials (1:12-18). God is good, James
teaches, and trials are an opportunity for the community to be tested. Sin emerges from the human condition and can be overcome by the "new birth" (1:18) as it creates a new community as a foretaste of what is to come.


2.1. T H E P U R P O S E O F T E S T I N G (1:2-4) JAMES

2 My brothers and sisters*, whenever you face trials of any kind0, consider* it nothing but joy, 3 because you know that the testing5 of your faith6 produces endurance*; 4 and let endurance have its full effect1, so that you may be mature and complete,1 lacking in nothing.

I found the source for all of that here in Scot McKnight's book, "The Letter of James":

 

 

james1.png

james2.png

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23 hours ago, AllenSmith said:

Another thing to look at with the Watchtower suspending it's public endorsement of time prophecy was the little-known confusion started by a small church in New York about Procter and Gamble in the 80’s.

This could be off topic here, but I've heard about this, and have no idea where it came from. Can you be a little more specific? I only remember in the late 80's some Witnesses not wanting to buy products made by Procter and Gamble, and when you did yourself, they would say you shouldn't because something about the company being Devil worshipers or something like that. I never paid much attention to it as I never heard anything official about this. Where did the others get the idea from?

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18 hours ago, AllenSmith said:

Oh! OK.

Thanks.

18 hours ago, AllenSmith said:

and you point to the same author with perhaps revised books, then you’re a bigger fool than I thought.

That might well be true. I am a fool, and have never claimed to be otherwise. On the question of whether I quoted from the same author with perhaps revised books, it seems I quoted from Scot McKnight's book, The Letter of James, published February 2011. This book of his was made an official part of the "New International Commentary on the New Testament." Apparently, then, this matches the source you quoted:

18 hours ago, AllenSmith said:

Scott_McKnight_The_Letter_of_James_New_International_Commentary_on_the_New_Testament 2011

 

18 hours ago, AllenSmith said:

. . . I forget to sometimes to include the source . . .

No problem.

Thanks, again.

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      However, since your anointed leaders claim not to be inspired by Holy Spirit, how can you trust their teachings as beneficial and coming from God? (1 John 2:27; Rom 5:5) (1 Cor 12:4,7; Heb 2:4)
      We’re talking about a multi-million-dollar organization in the earthly spiritual realm that promises to guide you to salvation. (Phil 3:19; Rom 1:25) That’s a big deal! Millions of people depend on it, to lead them in truth; since without truth, we cannot be saved. John 8:32;14:6
      Ask yourself, how can it be done without its leaders’ inspiration from Holy Spirit? On a wing and a prayer, as the saying goes? What leads them, what motivates them, if their hearts are not inspired with truth from Christ? (John 16:13; 2 Pet 3:18) (1 John 4:1; 2 Pet 2:1; Rev 8:11;13:15; 16:13,14)
      I have heard 1 Cor 13:8 used by one of the GB members, as the reason for lack of inspiration among the organization’s leaders:
      “Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will be done away with. Where there are various languages, they will cease. Where there is knowledge, it will be done away with.”
      Has knowledge vanished away during these last days? No. Then, why would prophesy cease? Dan 12:4; Rev 11:1-3
      Consider verse 9,10: 9 "For we know in part, and we prophesy in part; 10 but when that which is complete has come, then that which is partial will be done away with. "
      “That which is complete” has not arrived; thus, prophesy as well as knowledge, has not ceased. John 16:13
      (Consider “Has Prophesy Ceased?”  4womaninthewilderness, Pearl Doxsey) 
      What if, you found a teaching in the history files (there are several, and easy to find) that wasn’t trustworthy; that is, it couldn’t be applied today since it was replaced with another teaching? And, this teaching affected the promise of salvation for thousands of people? Many may have died under that false teaching, going to their grave believing simply, a lie. Would this be any different than a Catholic going to his grave believing in the trinity? A lie is a lie. God or Jesus would not be responsible for the organization giving you faulty instructions, that later had to be scrapped. It falls on the shoulders of men. Isa 2:22 We must admit that it is an abnormal relationship of a spirit inspired organization (“spirit-directed”), to be led by uninspired leaders. John 3:21; 1 John 1:6; Rev 13:11,12,15
      I think you’ll agree that we would never receive bad advice or direction from the Father, because He truly has our best interests at heart. Jer 29:11 So much so, that we received warning from Jesus of false “christs”, false prophets who would come on the scene in the last days to deceive “even the elect”. Matt 24:22-25 Now, the “elect” are the anointed ones, where the majority are gathered presently in the organization. Rev 20:7-9 Would they, as a group, be deceived by false prophets in “Christendom” if they are baptized JWs? Would they, as a group, be 'conquered' spiritually by any false prophets in the world when they are already JWs? Rev 13:7; 9:1-4
      The Bible speaks of an anointed “remnant” coming out of “Babylon”. Zech 2:6,7; Matt 24:15,16; Rev 18:4; 12:14,6 If that remnant is the anointed in the organization that have escaped Babylon, as your leaders teach you, this would indicate there are numerous anointed ones in Christendom who never entered the organization. Do you believe this, JWs?
      The anointed are a remnant, the last group of the “woman’s seed” to face Satan’s final test before the Kingdom arrives. Rev 12:4,15,17 This test is called the “Great Tribulation”. Jer 30:5-7; Matt 24:21,22; Rev 3:10 Deceit is at its helm, since it is Satan’s greatest, most powerful tool to use against God’s people. 2 Thess 2:3,4,9-12
      The Great Tribulation is a spiritual assault by Satan upon the remnant (Rev 12:17; 20:8-10; 16:13-16; 1 Tim 4:1; Luke 21:20-22)
      through the greatest Army that has ever existed [Rev 13:1,4; 11:2; 9:7,10; Luke 22:31; 21:20-22,24; Mark 13:14 – (Num 18:7); Matt 24:15,16]
      It has a deceptive priestly - princely veneer (Jer 7:4,8; Ezek 44:6-9; Rev 9:7; Nahum 3:17) of divine inspiration*** and approval, through endorsement by the false prophet's lying spirit, not by God's spirit! (Rev 13:14,15; 19:20) (Rev 2:2; 2 Cor 11:13-15; 2 Tim 3:5,13; Matt 7:15; 1 Tim 4:1; Rev 16:14,13,15; 19:20; Matt 24:24,25; Rev 13:15--***"breath" -John 2:22).  Pearl Doxsey, “The Great Tribulation, What and Why?” 
       
      DECEIT. How do we conquer deceit? By examining each teaching offered by an anointed one, and comparing it to God’s standards through Jesus Christ - to determine if it is true. Matt 7:20; John 15:5 As humans adjusting our spiritual beliefs, we may easily settle for what feels good, but not always for what is right. This last test is one that should purge our minds and hearts of falsehoods, but not all will submit to God’s pure standards of truth. Dan 12:10; Ps 66:10-12; Mal 3:2-4   Not all will be among the “remnant” to “come out of her, my people”. Rev 18:4-8
      Will you?  Or, are you the naive one who believes every word that comes from leaders who are not "inspired" by the truth of Christ?
       
      Praise Yah!
      I will extol YHVH with all my heart
      in the council of the upright and in the assembly.
      2 Great are the works of YHVH;
      they are pondered by all who delight in them.
      3 Glorious and majestic are His deeds,
      and His righteousness endures forever.
      4 He has caused His wonders to be remembered;
      YHVH is gracious and compassionate.
      5 He provides food for those who fear Him;
      He remembers His covenant forever.
      6 He has shown his people the power of His works,
      giving them the lands of other nations.
      7 The works of His hands are faithful and just;
      all His precepts are trustworthy.
      8 They are established for ever and ever,
      enacted in faithfulness and uprightness.
      9 He provided redemption for His people;
      he ordained His covenant forever—
      holy and awesome is His name.
      10 The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom;
      all who follow His precepts have good understanding.
      To Him belongs eternal praise.
      Psalm 111
       

    • By James Thomas Rook Jr.
      Is it fair?
       
       
      Is it FAIR.wmv
    • By JOHN BUTLER
      I find it interesting when so much is compared between the Jews and the JW's.
      But in my opinion, one big difference between being a Jew before and in the time of Jesus, and being a JW, is choice. 
      If a person was born into the Nation of Israel, they were born under Law and ruled over by the Religious leaders (and the Romans) at that time. There was no choice of being a Jew or not being a Jew. They were born into it. So of course many of them, probably all of them, committed 'sin' and had to make sin offerings. God had chosen that Nation, those people had responsibility but not of their choice. 
      Now, people that enter the JW religion do so voluntarily.  ( Unfortunately for those born into it, they have to go through the motions of serving the JW Org until they are of an age whereby they can leave home. Then, when of age they too can volunteer to be a JW or chose to leave the Org.). 
      There is a big difference from being born into a Nation which you may not like, than voluntarily joining a religion which you do like.
      So the big question is, if 'millions' of people voluntarily join this JW Org, why do so many commit child abuse, adultery and many other sins ? 
      If this is supposed to be 'THE true religion', why are the people not guided by God through Jesus  Christ ?  Just reading comments on here from so called JW's makes me laugh. There is no love, no mercy, no understanding, no respect even. 
      Being an ex JW and seeing things from both sides i have found more genuine love, kindness, friendship, respect, warmth, understanding etc outside of the Org than inside. Inside the Org people have to be told to 'love one another', outside the Org people do it anyway. 
      It has amazed me how JW's can really believe that God is with them when they are so cold and selfish.
      With the Jews that were born into that Nation, they had no choice about their way of life. It was basically a dictatorship by God. The Laws were from 'above'. Obviously for the right reason, to bring forth Jesus Christ who in turn would 'rescue' the human race from complete destruction. But it was a totally different situation to the JW Org today.
      So now all you 'JWs', think on it. Do you truly believe you are in this' special environment' within the Org ? Do you really think that your Org has God's approval ? 
      Think deeply about all the problems within JW Org. All the disgusting things being done voluntarily by all the volunteer JW's. 
      Now ask yourself, are you really a volunteer JW or are you trapped in the Org for fear of losing all those 'so called friends' ? 
      You know that you can only have your family and 'friends' as long as you are a JW.   Do you feel like the Jews must have felt, trapped in that Nation ? 
      As we know many of the Jews left the Jewish religion and way of life to follow Christ, but it was difficult for them. However, they did have God's approval and God, through Christ made this known clearly. And it seems that many are leaving the JW Org to seek God's approval too. 
      But remember that all JW's are volunteers, or should be, so why oh why is there so much trouble in that Org ? 
       
    • By JOHN BUTLER
      Having read lots of comments on this forum it is very easy to see that all that Jehovah's Witnesses have is their belief in their Governing Body and it's Writing Department. 
      If they believe, as a certain cowboy would have it, that a person can gain no true knowledge from the bible itself, then how else does a person gain true knowledge ? 
      It would seem that Jehovah's Witnesses rely totally on their GB 'boses' and on the Writing Department of same, to tell all JW's what to believe and when to believe it. 
      Why do i say 'and when to believe it' ?  Well you have to keep up you know . What is said to be 'truth' by the GB and co one day,  will be said to be totally untrue the next day or week.
      JW's have nothing, no proof of any 'enlightenment' from above. They talk proudly about having 8.5 million members earthwide, but how many Muslims are there earthwide ? How many Catholics earthwide ?  Numbers prove nothing as it can be clearly seen. 
      Yes I was once fooled by all the 'niceness' of a few brothers and sisters. But once I got to know those people properly I soon found out that they are no better than people in the world. 
      The JW Org is no better than any other organisation that pretends to serve God, but the JW Org is in some ways more dangerous.  It wraps itself around people's lives and restricts people's freedom of thinking. It pretends to have 'special knowledge' from God that no other organisation has.
      But then if one looks closely one can see it is all just a smoke screen. The JW Org only has 8 men in America dominating it, and 8.5 million people worshiping those 8 men. 
      I do feel a bit foolish having wasted years of my life believing all of it's lies and deceit, but I congratulate myself for not being frightened to ask questions and do research for myself. 
      No matter what any Jehovah's Witness tells you, the truth is, all they have is a belief in their GB, and they follow their GB's orders via all the others in charge including the puppet men Elders. 
      At meetings, conventions, assemblies, on the ministry et al, all they do is use the literature provided for them by the GB and the Writing dept. Without question they pump this 'information' into other people. When conducting a supposed 'bible study' it is actually a book study, studying the words of the GB / writing dept, not studying God's written word properly. They spend more time reading the paragraphs and answering those questions than they do reading scriptures and focusing on God's words.
      It is a horrid way of brainwashing people, washing out the common sense and replacing it with lies from the GB / writing dept. Dictating, giving orders and pretending it is God's will. 
      Removing the love that people have for one another and replacing it with discrimination. Shunning family members, turning their back on anyone that is not a JW by saying all other people are just 'part of the world' and therefore wicked. 
      Frightening people with threats of 'armageddon' killing them. 
      And now it seems that they are almost begging for contributions as they seem to be getting short of money. Well paying off millions in compensation for the Child Abuse / Pedophilea of course. Selling off Kingdom Halls too as funds run low. 
      Oh how low that religion has sunken. Are they really stupid enough to believe that God is with them ?  
       
    • By James Thomas Rook Jr.
      Here is another question.
      If Christ has ALREADY come to Earth as an invisible presence, and is ruling as King NOW ......  starting in 1914 ...... why are we still celebrating the Memorial?
    • By The Librarian
      Part of a series on: Jehovah's Witnesses >
      Jehovah's Witnesses began capitalizing Governing Body as a proper noun in 1971;The Watchtower that year announced "The present Governing Body comprises eleven anointed witnesses of Jehovah." The original members of the 1971 Governing Body, all now deceased, are indicated in italics in the lists below.

      Current
      The following people are members of the Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses[7] (year appointed in parentheses): Samuel Herd (1999) Geoffrey Jackson (2005) M. Stephen Lett (1999) Gerrit Lösch (1994) Anthony Morris III (2005) Mark Sanderson (2012) David H. Splane (1999) Kenneth Cook (2018)  Deceased
      The following individuals were members of the Governing Body until death (years active in parentheses, including years as Watch Tower Society directors, informally identified as the "governing body" prior to 1971): Carey W. Barber (1977–2007) Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content.  (1977–2010) William Lloyd Barry (1974–1999) Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content.  (1974–1996) Charles J. Fekel (1974–1977) Frederick William Franz (1944–1992)—5th President of Watch Tower Society George D. Gangas (1971–1994) John O. Groh (1965–1975) Milton George Henschel (1947–2003)—6th President of Watch Tower Society William K. Jackson (1971–1981) Theodore Jaracz (1974–2010) Karl F. Klein (1974–2001) Nathan Homer Knorr (1940–1977)—4th President of Watch Tower Society Guy H. Pierce (1999- Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. ) Martin Pötzinger (1977–1988) Albert D. Schroeder (1974–2006) Grant Suiter (1938–1983) Thomas J. Sullivan (1932–1974) Lyman Alexander Swingle (1945–2001) Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content.  (1974–2006) Resigned
      The following individuals  Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content.  (years active in parentheses): Ewart Chitty (1974–1979) Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content.  (1971–1980) Leo K. Greenlees (1971–1984)  
    • By Jack Ryan
      Loesch, Barr in the middle, Barry in the foreground
    • By JOHN BUTLER
      Luke 10 v 21  In that very hour he became overjoyed in the holy spirit and said: “I publicly praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have carefully hidden these things from wise and intellectual ones and have revealed them to young children. Yes, O Father, because this is the way you approved.
      This seems to show that 'higher education' was not needed to learn, understand and teach, the truth from God, at that time. 
      It seems to be a well know thing within the JW Org and by people outside of same, that JW's are 'told' not to aim for higher education. I say told, although some will say strongly advised, with a possible caution of being disfellowshipped. 
      Now I've noticed on here recently that deep conversation about many things has been and is taking place. Politics earthwide. religious beliefs earthwide and the latest thing seems to be Evolution (from a very deep standpoint ). ( These things were never taught to me at school. )
      I left school at 15 years old, as soon as I was able, for reasons previously mentioned. Here in UK now teenagers have to remain in education until they are 18. The three years from 15 to 18 seem to me to be almost 'higher education', but compulsory.  How much they learn at school now I've no idea. 
      My feelings are, and yes ok i cannot put proof to these feelings, but, my feelings are, that all forms of higher education are advised against by the GB and the JW Org. Some of you may have some proof of this in writing. So, where does this leave JW's ?
      If a young person leaves school to go into full time 'service' ministry, they do not get a higher education. Their 'basic' education may have been just that, very basic. They are then not 'qualified' to talk to others on a higher education level, and this might even be to the point of not understanding such things as are being discussed on here lately. 
      ( Much of what is being discussed leaves me miles behind. I'm a very simple person. Plus at 69 I forget more than i learn. Yes I do write lots of notes and have books for recording different things, but the mind boggles. )
      With respect for those I knew and loved in the past, within my ex congregation, many of them were 'simple country folk'. And I think Tom said about not having the time or inclination to do research online or or otherwise. So let us go back to the scripture at the top. 
      So many questions. Does God reveal more to those of a lesser education ?  Is higher education and greater knowledge a disadvantage when wanting to serve God properly?
      Or is it that those of higher education are too stubborn to learn God's way ?  Too proud maybe ?   
      There are many things that the Bible doesn't tell us. is that deliberate ? Does God want to keep it simple for us ? So, should we pursue more knowledge about worldly things ? 
      A problem may occur when talking to others about God, in that they may have more knowledge on a certain subject than we do and therefore believe something different. Should we then educate ourselves to their level on the same subject, or just pass them by ?  Bearing in mind the scripture at the top of this page. 
      There has to be a balance of course. But my feelings are that the GB would like JW's to be educated only by the Watchtower studies and by the 'workbook' evening meeting studies. And of course by personal Bible reading.   But do JW's do as they are told in this respect or do a lot of them 'educate themselves', or take further education elsewhere ? 
       
       
    • By The Librarian
      All posts tagged ' Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. " 
      Brother Jackson started pioneering in February 1971 in Tasmania, the island state of Australia. In June 1974, he married Jeanette (Jenny). Shortly thereafter, they were appointed to serve as special pioneers. From 1979 to 2003, they served as missionaries in Tuvalu, Samoa, and Fiji—island nations in the South Pacific. While in the islands, Brother and Sister Jackson also contributed much to the work of translating Bible literature. Beginning in 1992, Brother Jackson served on the Branch Committee in Samoa, and from 1996, on the Branch Committee in Fiji. In April 2003, he and Jenny became part of the United States Bethel family and began to work in the Translation Services Department. Soon thereafter, Brother Jackson was made a helper to the Teaching Committee of the Governing Body. (See  Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. ) Tragically, Geoffrey's wife Jenny lost her battle with cancer and died 22 December 2009 at the age of 54. Geoffrey has since remarried. He is one of the youngest members of the Governing Body, born in 1955.   Recent news:

      Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content.  

      Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content.  and  Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content.  on  Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content.  Australian time.
        Milshon Masara (L) posing for a picture with guest speaker Geoffrey Jackson and his current wife, Loraini Jackson. 

      Taken at the Zimbabwe 2014 International Convention -  Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content.
       

      Geoffrey and Rae Jackson

      Loraini Jackson is from Tazmania according to  Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content.  
      Related Items:
      Talks by Geoffrey Jackson
      Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content.  - Encouraging clip of a talk by Geoffrey Jackson of the Governing Body

      Talks translated into Spanish
      Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content.
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      Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content.
       
      International delegates running into Geoffrey and Loraini Jackson in Harare, Zimbabwe.   
    • By TrueTomHarley
      How many of them do you want answered?
      We went round and round on a prior thread and you just repackage your questions and run them through again.
      The verse says: ‘Taste and see that Jehovah is good.’ If you tasted and saw that he was bad, what can I say? Check your taste buds. But you can just as easily say it to me.
      It may be that you should be praying to The LORD. It is the GB that brings God’s name to the fore, nearly everyone else seeks to bury it, and you have made clear that you don’t trust the GB as far as you can spit.
    • By Jack Ryan
      This is a commonly used jw phrase regarding the faithful and discreet slave
       
    • By Jack Ryan
      I suspect @James Thomas Rook Jr. made this one... LOL
    • By The Librarian
      Part of a series on:
      The faithful and discreet slave is the term used by Jehovah's Witnesses to describe the religion's Governing Body in its role of directing doctrines and teachings. The group is described as a "class" of "anointed" Christians that operates under the direct control of Jesus Christ[1] to exercise teaching authority in all matters pertaining to doctrine and articles of faith.[2][3]
      The concept is a central doctrine of Jehovah's Witnesses' system of belief[4] and is based on their interpretation of the Parable of the Faithful Servant in Matthew 24:45–47, Mark 13:34-37 and Luke 12:35-48.
      The doctrine has undergone several major changes since it was formulated in 1881 by Charles Taze Russell, founder of the Bible Student movement. Russell initially applied it to the "church"—the "little flock" of 144,000 who would go to heaven—but five years later explained that it was an individual who would act as a sole channel or agent for Christ, dispensing "food", or new truths, for God's "household". Bible Students consequently regarded Russell as the "faithful and wise servant" of the parable.[5][6] In 1927 the Watch Tower Society announced that the "servant" was not in fact an individual, but was made up of the entire body of faithful spirit-anointed Christians; by 2010 that group numbered about 11,000 Witnesses from around the world.[7] In 2012 the society announced an "adjustment" of the doctrine, explaining that the slave was now understood to be synonymous with the Governing Body, a small group of anointed elders serving at the religion's world headquarters. The announcement also marked a change in belief about the timing of the slave class's appointment by Christ: it was said to have taken place in 1919 rather than in apostolic times, as previously believed.[8]
      The current teaching is that the governing body is synonymous with the Faithful & Discreet Slave Class. There was no governing body in Russell's day. A Board of Directors was selected after Russell's death to take the lead of the Society's affairs. The Watchtower considers this to be the first "governing body" and also the first "faithful slave".
       
      Role
      Watch Tower Society publications teach that Jesus uses the faithful and discreet slave "to publish information on the fulfillment of Bible prophecies and to give timely direction on the application of Bible principles in daily life"[9][10] as the only means of communicating God's messages to humans. It is referred to as God's "prophet"[11] and "channel",[12] and claims to provide "divine" direction and guidance. Jehovah's Witnesses are told their survival of Armageddon depends in part on their obedience to the slave class.[13] Governing Body members are said to act in the role of the faithful and discreet slave class when arriving at decisions on doctrines, activities and oversight of Jehovah's Witnesses worldwide, including making appointments to positions of responsibility.[14][15][16]
      Origin and history
      The parable on which Jehovah's Witnesses base their doctrine of the "faithful and discreet slave", as rendered in the King James Version, reads: "Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season? Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing. Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his goods."
      Watch Tower publications state that Christ, the "master" in the parable, returned in Kingdom power in  Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content.  and at that date identified those associated with the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society as the only group still faithfully feeding his followers.[17][18][19] (Earlier publications apply different dates to this event. The date of Christ's inspection has previously been identified as 1919,[20] though publications have also suggested Russell's group passed God's test of fitness 40 years earlier, using The Watchtower as his principal method of spreading Bible truth from 1879. Publications had claimed the slave class began using the Watch Tower Society as its legal instrument in 1884.)[21][22] Christ, in fulfillment of the parable, subsequently appointed anointed Christians associated with the Watch Tower Society "over all his belongings". The "belongings" are said to today include  Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. ' Brooklyn headquarters, branch offices, Kingdom Halls and Assembly Halls worldwide as well as the "great crowd" of  Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. .[17]
      Development of doctrine
      In 1881, an article in Zion's Watch Tower and Herald of Christ's Presence by the magazine's editor Charles Taze Russell identified the "faithful and wise servant" as "that 'little flock' of consecrated servants who are faithfully carrying out their consecration vows—the body of Christ ... the whole body individually and collectively, giving the meat in due season to the household of faith—the great company of believers."[23][9][24]
      In 1895, Russell's wife Maria claimed that Russell himself was the figure referred to in the parable at Matthew 24:45-47, though Russell initially declined to accept the personal application of the title, suggesting that it should apply to the Watch Tower rather than its editor.[25][26] In 1897 Russell agreed that Christ would have made a "choice of one channel for dispensing the meat in due season [emphasis in the original]" and while he did not refer to that "one channel" as an individual, Russell did apply to it the personal pronoun "he" (for example: "if unfaithful he will be deposed entirely"), and noted "whoever the Lord will so use, as a truth-distributing agent, will be very humble and unassuming" and "he would not think of claiming authorship or ownership of the truth."[27]
      In 1909, in an unsigned article, the Watch Tower mentioned that the "application to us of Matthew 24:45" had come "some fourteen years ago", or about 1895. The article went on to say "the Society's literature was the channel through which the Lord sent them practically all that they know about the Bible and the Divine purposes." [emphasis added][28]
      The prevailing view among Bible Students that Russell was "the faithful and wise servant" of Jesus' parable,[29] was reiterated in the Watch Tower a few weeks after Russell's death in 1916:
      Thousands of the readers of Pastor Russell's writings believe that he filled the office of "that faithful and wise servant," and that his great work was giving to the Household of Faith meat in due season. His modesty and humility precluded him from openly claiming this title, but he admitted as much in private conversation.[30]
      The Watch Tower Society's official history of  Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content.  states that Russell "did not personally promote the idea, but he did acknowledge the apparent reasonableness of the arguments of those who favored it."[31]
      In 1917, the publisher's preface to the book, The Finished Mystery, issued as a posthumous publication of Russell's writings, identified him as the "faithful and wise servant" appointed by Christ;[32] as late as 1923, the Watch Tower repeated the same belief about his role, declaring: "We believe that all who are now rejoicing in present truth will concede that Brother Russell faithfully filled the office of special servant of the Lord; and that he was made ruler over all the Lord's goods ... Brother Russell occupied the office of that 'faithful and wise servant'."[33]
      In 1927, Watch Tower Society president Joseph Rutherford reverted to Russell's original viewpoint, announcing that the "servant" was not an individual, but was made up of the entire body of faithful spirit-anointed Christians.[34]
      A 1950 issue of The Watchtower appeared to assign to the "mother organization"—in reference to the Watch Tower Society—the task of feeding Christians "meat in due season";[35] in 1951 the magazine defined the "faithful and discreet slave" as a class of people whose teachings were imparted through a theocratic organization.[36]
      1981 - Who Is The Faithful Steward, The Discreet One? - Talk by Frederick W. Franz then President of the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society
      From 2000 the Governing Body was increasingly described as the representative[37][38] and "spokesman" for God's "faithful and discreet slave class".
      Watch Tower Society publications had taught that the "faithful and discreet slave" class had had a continuous uninterrupted existence since being appointed by Christ at the time of Pentecost AD 33,[20] when the first 120 people upon whom  Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content.  was poured out began "feeding" Jews with spiritual food. As new disciples came in, they filled the role of "domestics" and joined in feeding others. The Apostles and other early Christian disciples who wrote the books of the New Testament were also part of the "slave" class providing spiritual food to Christians.[39]
      The Watchtower claimed members of the "slave" class were a close-knit body of Christians rather than isolated, independent individuals, and that one generation of the "slave" class fed the succeeding generation to maintain the unbroken line for more than 1900 years,[39][40] providing the same spiritual food to Christians worldwide.[20] Watch Tower publications did not identify the groups filling the role of the "slave" class between the close of the Apostolic Age and the early 20th century, suggesting it disappeared from "clear view",[40] but they implied they might have included the Lollards and the Waldensians (the latter movement described by The Watchtower as "faithful witnesses of Jehovah ... who sought to revive true worship of Christianity").[41][42][43]
      A series of talks at the 128th annual meeting of the Watch Tower Society in New Jersey on 6 October 2012 made further changes to the doctrine about the identity of the "slave". The society's report on the meeting said that "the faithful and discreet slave was appointed over Jesus' domestics in 1919. That slave is the small, composite group of anointed brothers serving at world headquarters during Christ's presence who are directly involved in preparing and dispensing spiritual food. When this group work together as the Governing Body, they act as 'the faithful and discreet slave.'" The report said the slave "logically" must have appeared after Christ's presence began in  Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. .[8]
      The doctrinal change also redefined the "domestics" of the parable—previously identified as individual "anointed" Witnesses[44]—as all Jehovah's Witnesses.[8]
      See also
      Watchtower (Study edition) - July 15, 2013
      144,000
      David H Splane: The Slave Is Not 1900 Years Old - Matt 24v45 

       
      References
      The Watchtower, March 15, 2002 pp. 13-14 paragraph 4 Watchtower August 1, 2001 p. 14 paragraph 8, "A mature Christian ... does not advocate or insist on personal opinions or harbor private ideas when it comes to Bible understanding. Rather, he has complete confidence in the truth as it is revealed by Jehovah God through his Son, Jesus Christ, and 'the faithful and discreet slave.'" "Jehovah, the God of Progressive Revelation", Watchtower, June 15, 1964, page 365, "The abundance of spiritual food and the amazing details of Jehovah's purposes that have been revealed to Jehovah's anointed witnesses are clear evidence that they are the ones mentioned by Jesus when he foretold a 'faithful and discreet slave' class that would be used to dispense God's progressive revelations in these last days ... How thankful we should be for the provision God has made of this slave class, the modern spiritual remnant, as they faithfully dispense the revealed truths of Jehovah! ... Jehovah's faithful witnesses have been progressively brought to an understanding of Jehovah's purposes, which are clearer now than ever before in history." Penton, M. James (1997). Apocalypse Delayed. University of Toronto Press. p. 160. ISBN 0-8020-7973-3. Penton, M. James (1997). Apocalypse Delayed. University of Toronto Press. p. 33. ISBN 0-8020-7973-3. The Watchtower, February 15, 1927, page 55, paragraph 38. Watch Tower, 1927, as referenced by Jehovah's Witnesses - Proclaimers of God's Kingdom, Watchtower Society, 1993, page 626. Report of Annual Meeting, Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society of Pennsylvania, October 6, 2012. Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content.  (1963), The Four Major Cults, Grand Rapids, Michigan: William B. Eerdmans, pp. 246–247, ISBN 0-8028-3117-6 Organized to Do Jehovah's Will, Watch Tower Society, 2005, p. 16. The Watchtower April 1, 1972, p. 197. The Watchtower August 1, 2002, p. 13 paragraph 17. "Do You Discern the Evidence of God's Guidance?", The Watchtower, April 15, 2011, pages 3-5. "Do You Discern the Evidence of God’s Guidance?", The Watchtower, April 15, 2011, "Jesus Christ is the assigned Leader of the congregation. He has delegated some authority to a faithful slave class, made up of faithful spirit-anointed Christians. That slave class, in turn, appoints overseers in the Christian congregation." "Do You Take the Lead in Showing Honor?", The Watchtower, October 15, 2008, page 23, "It is Scriptural for “the faithful and discreet slave” through its Governing Body to appoint men to positions of responsibility, and some men are appointed to exercise authority over other appointed men." Overseers and Ministerial Servants Theocratically Appointed", The Watchtower, January 15, 2001, page 15, "The Governing Body appoints qualified brothers at the branches to represent it in making appointments of elders and ministerial servants. Care is taken that those acting representatively on behalf of the Governing Body clearly understand and follow the Scriptural guidelines for making such appointments. Hence, it is under the direction of the Governing Body that qualified men are appointed to serve in the congregations of Jehovah’s Witnesses worldwide." Organized To Do God's Will, Watch Tower Bible & Tract Society, 2005, page 16. Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content.  (1963), The Four Major Cults, Grand Rapids, Michigan: William B. Eerdmans, pp. 300–301, ISBN 0-8028-3117-6 Beckford, James A. (1975), The Trumpet of Prophecy: A Sociological Study of Jehovah's Witnesses, Oxford: Basil Blackwell, p. 109, ISBN 0-631-16310-7 One Lord, One Faith, One Baptism”, The Watchtower, September 15, 1983, page 19, paragraph 19. Jehovah's Witnesses in the Divine Purpose, Watch Tower Bible & Tract Society, 1959, page 22, "... in many ways the evidence was beginning to accumulate that, of all the early voices heard, Jehovah had chosen the publication we now call The Watchtower to be used as a channel through which to bring to the world of mankind a revelation of the divine will and, through the words revealed in its columns, to begin a division of the world's population into those who would do the divine will and those who would not. For this reason 1879 was a turning point in the work. This little group, headed by C.T. Russell, had now been tested and had been found fit to undertake the great preliminary campaign leading up to the climax expected in  Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. ." "Willingly Expand Your Ministry", The Watchtower, June 1, 1963, page 338. Zion's Watch Tower and Herald of Christ's Presence, October/November 1881. Proclaimers of God's Kingdom, Watch Tower Bible & Tract Society, 1993, page 142. Watch Tower, July 15, 1906, Watch Tower Reprints, page 3811, As Retrieved 2009-09-23, page 215. Penton, M. James (1997). Apocalypse Delayed. University of Toronto Press. pp. 33–37. ISBN 0-8020-7973-3. The Battle of Armageddon (Part IV, "Studies in the Scriptures") by C. T. Russell, Watch Tower Bible & Tract Society, 1897, page 613. Watch Tower, October 1, 1909, Watch Tower Reprints, page 4482, As Retrieved 2009-09-23, page 292 "Testing and Sifting From Within", Jehovah's Witnesses - Proclaimers of God's Kingdom, Watchtower Society, 1993, page 626, "According to Brother Russell, his wife, who later left him, was the first one to apply Matthew 24:45-47 to him. See the Watch Tower issues of July 15, 1906, page 215; March 1, 1896, page 47; and June 15, 1896, pages 139-40." Watch Tower, December 1, 1916, Watch Tower Reprints, page 5998, As Retrieved 2009-09-23, page 357 "Testing and Sifting From Within", Jehovah's Witnesses - Proclaimers of God's Kingdom, page 626, "Many ... clung to the view that a single individual, Charles Taze Russell, was the "faithful and wise servant" ... Particularly following his death, The Watch Tower itself set forth this view for a number of years. In view of the prominent role that Brother Russell had played, it appeared to the Bible Students of that time that this was the case. He did not personally promote the idea, but he did acknowledge the apparent reasonableness of the arguments of those who favored it." Publisher's Preface, Studies in the Scriptures, Series VII: The Finished Mystery, Peoples Pulpit Association, Brooklyn, NY, 1917. Watch Tower, March 1, 1923, pages 68 and 71, as cited by Raymond Franz, Crisis of Conscience, Commentary Press, 2007, page 63. Watch Tower, 1927, as referenced by Jehovah's Witnesses - Proclaimers of God's Kingdom, Watchtower Society, 1993, page 626. The Watchtower, September 15, 1950 p. 326|"The Father is the great Provider of spiritual food, and he delegates to his organization the duty of preparing and serving this life-sustaining 'meat in due season'. The table is the Lord’s, he sits at the head, and the children seated at the table are waited on and served and helped by the mother organization." "Release Under Way to the Ends of the Earth", The Watchtower December 15, 1951, page 749, paragraph 4|"Christ Jesus approved of his remnant as a 'faithful and discreet slave' and set this "slave" class over all his earthly belongings. Then by the theocratic organization Jehovah led them from one truth to another, opening the eyes of their hearts and the ears of their understanding to see and hear these truths." The Watchtower, May 15, 2008, page 29 "Seek God's guidance in all things", The Watchtower, April 15, 2008, page 11. "How Are Christians Spiritually Fed?", The Watchtower, January 15, 1975. "Do You Appreciate the “Faithful and Discreet Slave”?", The Watchtower, March 1, 1981, page 24. Theocratic Aid to Kingdom Publishers, Watch Tower Bible & Tract Society, 1945, page 307. Franz, Raymond (2007). In Search of Christian Freedom. Commentary Press. pp. 128, 129. ISBN 0-914675-17-6. Penton, M. James (1997). Apocalypse Delayed. University of Toronto Press. pp. 179–183. ISBN 0-8020-7973-3. Insight In The Scriptures volume 1, Watch Tower Bible & Tract Society, 1988, p. 805-806. See also:
       
    • By Jack Ryan
      Did You Know?
      You can openly and publicly question if the President of the United States is fit for office. You can question his policies, his statements, and his character. Your family and friends will not be taken away from you.
      You can openly and publicly question the policies, fitness for office, statements, and character of governors, senators, congressmen, judges, and various other politicians and leaders in the United States. Your family and friends will not be taken away from you.
      If you believe in a god, you can pray to your god questioning his authority, ability to rule, his decisions, and his purpose. When you open your eyes, you will find that your family and friends have not and will not be taken away from you.
      Jesus had his authority questioned many times. (Matt. 21: 23-27) According to the Bible, he would have had the power to punish those questioning him. Yet, he did nothing to them. He harmed no one physically or emotionally.
      You can confidentially question the ability to lead, the validity, the teachings, the doctrines and policies of the Governing Body to only two family members or close companions.  Your family and friends WILL be taken away from you. You will be labeled as dead, evil, and mentally diseased. You can and will likely lose all the social connections and relationships you have developed over a lifetime.
      Only absolute dictators take away the rights of those they rule if their authority is questioned. Look at the examples of Stalin, Hitler, Bashar al-Assad, and Kim Jong Un. 
      The Governing Body today will attend court hearings in other countries rejoicing when freedoms are granted to their followers. They will organize letter writing campaigns to lobby for religious freedoms of Jehovah's Witnesses. They will take legal arguments to the highest courts to fight for the rights of the organization that they govern. Yet, all it takes for you to lose all of your freedoms to be with your very own family is the admission to enough witnesses that you no longer believe the Governing Body are chosen by God and have authority over you. 
      Did You Know? The Governing Body will fight tooth and nail for their own perceived freedoms, but they have no problems taking away your own freedoms and declaring you dead if you dare to question them.
    • By The Librarian
      Part of a series on: Jehovah's Witnesses

      The Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses is the ruling council of Jehovah's Witnesses[1] based in Brooklyn, New York. The body assumes responsibility for formulating policy and doctrines, producing material for publications and conventions, and administering its worldwide branch office staff.[2][3] Members of the Governing Body say they are followers of Christ rather than religious leaders.[4] One member explained the Governing Body as being "Guardians of the Doctrine" when under oath in Australia in 2015.[119]
      Its size has varied, from seven (2010–2012)[5] to eighteen (1974–1980)[6]members.[7][8] As of October 2012, there are eight members.[5] Members of the Governing Body are not elected; membership is only possible by invitation of existing members.[9]Updated: Current list of the Governing Body as of October 2014
      History

      The Governing Body in 1975
      Since its incorporation in 1884, the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society of Pennsylvania has been directed by a president and board of directors. Until January 1976, the president exercised complete control of doctrines, publications and activity of the Watch Tower Society and the religious denominations with which it was connected—the Bible Students and Jehovah's Witnesses.[10][11][12]
      When the Society's second president, J.F. Rutherford, encountered opposition from directors in 1917, he dismissed them; in 1925 he overruled the Watch Tower Society's editorial committee—selected by Charles Taze Russell to have editorial control of The Watch Tower after his death—when it opposed publication of an article that altered doctrines on Bible chronology related to  Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. . In 1931, the editorial committee was dissolved.[13][14] 
      as of 2013
         
      In 1943 The Watchtower described the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society as the "legal governing body" of anointed  Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. .[15] A year later, in an article opposing the democratic election of congregation elders, the magazine said the appointment of congregation servants was the duty of "a visible governing body under Jehovah God and his Christ."[16] For several years, the role and specific identity of the governing body remained otherwise undefined. A 1955 organizational handbook stated that "the visible governing body has been closely identified with the board of directors of this corporation."[17] Referring to events related to their 1957 convention, a 1959 publication said "the spiritual governing body of Jehovah’s witnesses watched the developments [then] the president of the Watch Tower Bible & Tract Society [acted]."[18] The 1970 Yearbook of Jehovah's Witnesses noted that the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society of Pennsylvania was the organization used to plan the activity of Jehovah's Witnesses and provide them with "spiritual food", then declared: "So really the governing body of Jehovah's Witnesses is the board of directors of the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society of Pennsylvania."[19]
      On October 1, 1971, Watch Tower Society vice-president Frederick Franz addressed the annual meeting of the Pennsylvania corporation in Buckingham, Pennsylvania, stating that the legal corporation of the Watch Tower Society was an "agency" or "temporary instrument" used by the Governing Body on behalf of the"faithful and discreet slave".[20] Three weeks later, on October 20, four additional men joined the seven members of the Society's board of directors on what became known as a separate, expanded Governing Body.[21] The board of directors had until then met only sporadically, usually only to discuss the purchase of property or new equipment, leaving decisions concerning material to be published in Watch Tower Society publications to the president and vice-president, Nathan Knorr and Fred Franz.[20][22] The Watchtower of December 15, 1971 was the first to unambiguously capitalize the term "Governing Body of Jehovah's witnesses" as the defined group leading the religion, with a series of articles explaining its role and its relationship with the Watch Tower Society.[2][23]
      The focus on the new concept of "theocratic" leadership was accompanied by statements that the structure was not actually new: The Watch Tower declared that "a governing body made its appearance" some time after the formation of Zion's Watch Tower Society in 1884,[24] though it had not beenreferred to as such at the time.[10]
      The article claimed that Watch Tower Society president Charles Taze Russell had been a member of the governing body.[24] The 1972 Yearbook of Jehovah's Witnesses stated that following Rutherford's death in 1942 "one of the first things that the governing body decided upon was the inauguration of the Theocratic Ministry School" and added that the "governing body" had published millions of books and Bibles in the previous thirty years.[25] Raymond Franz has disputed those claims, stating that the actions of presidents Russell, Rutherford and Knorr in overriding and failing to consult with directors proved the Bible Students and Jehovah's Witnesses had been under a monarchical rule until 1976, leaving no decisions to a "governing body".[26]
      In 1972, a Question From Readers article in The Watchtower further reinforced the concept of the "Governing Body"; the magazine said the term referred to an agency that administers policy and provides organizational direction, guidance and regulation and was therefore "appropriate, fitting and Scriptural."[23][27]Organizational changes at the highest levels of the Watch Tower Society in 1976 significantly increased the powers and authority of the Governing Body.[28] The body has never had a legal corporate existence and operates through the Watch Tower Society and its board of directors.[29]

      Re-organization
      After its formal establishment in 1971, the Governing Body met regularly but, according to Raymond Franz, only briefly; Franz claims meetings were sometimes as short as seven minutes,[30] to make decisions about branch appointments and conduct that should be considered disfellowshipping offenses.[31][32] Franz claims that in 1971 and again in 1975, the Governing Body debated the extent of the authority it should be given.[33]
      Headquarters purge

      Raymond Franz claimed that in 1980, unease with doctrines surrounding the significance of  Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content.  surfaced within the Governing Body. In February of that year, three Governing Body members—aware that those who had been alive in  Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content.  were dying out despite the teaching that their generation would live to see Armageddon—proposed a doctrinal change to identify the "generation" who would see Armageddon as those who witnessed the 1957 launch of the Russian satellite Sputnik, which would be considered a 'sign in heaven'.The proposal, which would have extended the deadline for Armageddon by 43 years, failed to gain a majority vote.[36][37] Former Witnesses James Penton and Heather and Gary Botting claimed that internal dissatisfaction with official doctrines continued to grow, leading to a series of secret investigations and judicial hearings. As a result, the Governing Body led a purge of dissenting Brooklyn headquarters staff in April and May 1980.[38][39][40] Raymond Franz claimed he was forced to resign from the Governing Body, and he was later disfellowshipped from the religion. The Watch Tower Society responded with a new, hardened attitude towards the treatment of expelled Witnesses.[38][39][41] In his 1997 study of the religion, Penton concluded that since Raymond Franz's expulsion in 1980, the Governing Body displayed an increased level of conservatism, sturdy resistance to changes of policy and doctrines, and an increased tendency to isolate dissidents within the organization by means of disfellowshipping.[42]
      Helpers
      The April 15, 1992 issue of The Watchtower carried an article entitled Jehovah’s Provision, the “Given Ones” which drew a parallel between ancient non-Israelites who had been assigned temple duties (the  Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content.  and "sons of the servants of Solomon") and Witness elders in positions of responsibility immediately under the oversight of the Governing Body who did not profess to be "anointed".[43]Both that issue of The Watchtower and the 1993 Yearbook of Jehovah's Witnesses carried the same announcement:
      In view of the tremendous increase worldwide, it seems appropriate at this time to provide the Governing Body with some additional assistance. Therefore it has been decided to invite several helpers, mainly from among the great crowd, to share in the meetings of each of the Governing Body Committees, that is, the Personnel, Publishing, Service, Teaching, and Writing Committees. Thus, the number attending the meetings of each of these committees will be increased to seven or eight. Under the direction of the Governing Body committee members, these assistants will take part in discussions and will carry out various assignments given them by the committee. This new arrangement goes into effect May 1, 1992. For many years now, the number of the remnant of anointed Witnesses has been decreasing, while the number of the great crowd has increased beyond our grandest expectations.[44][45]
      Each of the current Governing Body members served as a committee "helper" before being appointed to the Governing Body itself.[46][47][48] The appointment of helpers to the Governing Body committees was described in 2006 as "still another refinement."[49]

      2000 and beyond
      Until 2000, the directors and officers of the Watch Tower Society were members of the Governing Body. Since then, members of the ecclesiastical Governing Body have not served as directors of any of the various corporations used by Jehovah's Witnesses, and the Governing Body has delegated such administrative responsibilities to other members of the religion.[50] The current president of the Watch Tower Society, Don A. Adams, is not a member of the Governing Body. As of October 2012, the Governing Body comprises eight members, as shown below.
      Governing Body 2003 


      Photo shot prior to the death of Guy Pierce in the 2014 release "God's Kingdom Rules!"
      One of our favorite moments of 
      Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. …when all 7 of the  Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content.  came out and sang with the Watchtower Chorus the last and newest song called: “Jehovah Is Your Name”….what a powerful and moving 100 Year Celebration! @stephendianna
        See also
      Organizational structure of Jehovah's Witnesses Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. How to remember Governing Body Members' names Governing Body signing Bibles for public officials Residences of the Governing Body David H Splane: The Slave Is Not 1900 Years Old - Matt 24v45 - Frederick W. Franz was against the formation of a Governing Body References
      Penton, M. James (1997). Apocalypse Delayed: The Story of Jehovah's Witnesses. University of Toronto Press. p. 216. ISBN 0-8020-7973-3. "Questions From Readers". The Watchtower: 703. November 15, 1972. "Our active leader today", The Watchtower, September 15, 2010, page 27, "They recognize, however, that Christ is using a small group of anointed Christian men as a Governing Body to lead and direct his disciples on earth." "Bearing Thorough Witness" About God's Kingdom. Watchtower Bible and Tract Society. 2009. p. 110. As of September 2005, twelve members listed (See The Watchtower, March 15, 2006, page 26)
      Schroeder died March 8, 2006. (See The Watchtower, September 15, 2006, page 31)
      Sydlik died April 18, 2006. (See The Watchtower, January 1, 2007, page 8)
      Barber died April 8, 2007. (See The Watchtower, October 15, 2007, page 31)
      Jaracz died June 9, 2010. (See The Watchtower, November 15, 2010, page 23)
      Barr died December 4, 2010. (See The Watchtower, May 15, 2011, page 6)
      Mark Sanderson appointed in September 2012 "A New Member of the Governing Body", The Watchtower, July 15, 2013, page 26.[1] Penton, M. James (1997). Apocalypse Delayed: The Story of Jehovah's Witnesses. University of Toronto Press. p. 217. ISBN 0-8020-7973-3. Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society of Pennsylvania (2007). Yearbook of Jehovah's Witnesses. pp. 4, 6. Botting, Heather & Gary (1984). The Orwellian World of Jehovah's Witnesses. University of Toronto Press. p. 178. ISBN 0-8020-6545-7. Franz, Raymond (2007). In Search of Christian Freedom. Commentary Press. p. 123. ISBN 0-914675-17-6. Franz, Raymond (2007). Crisis of Conscience. Commentary Press. p. 58.ISBN 0-914675-23-0. Franz, Raymond (2007). In Search of Christian Freedom. Commentary Press. pp. 186, footnote. ISBN 0-914675-17-6. Penton, M. James (1997). Apocalypse Delayed: The Story of Jehovah's Witnesses. University of Toronto Press. pp. 162–163, 214. ISBN 0-8020-7973-3. Franz, Raymond (2007). Crisis of Conscience. Commentary Press. pp. 61–62. ISBN 0-914675-23-0. Penton, M. James (1997). Apocalypse Delayed: The Story of Jehovah's Witnesses. University of Toronto Press. p. 59. ISBN 0-8020-7973-3. The Watchtower. July 15, 1943. page 216, paragraph 24. The Watchtower. November 1, 1944. page 328, paragraph 32. Qualified to be Ministers. Watch Tower Society. 1955. p. 381. cited by  Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. , Crisis of Conscience, page 74 "Divine Will International Assembly of Jehovah’s Witnesses", The Watchtower, February 15, 1959, page 115, "So with intense interest the spiritual governing body of Jehovah’s witnesses watched the developments... Without delay the president of the Watch Tower Bible & Tract Society closed a contract with the owners to use the Polo Grounds simultaneously with Yankee Stadium." Yearbook of Jehovah's Witnesses. Watch Tower Society. 1970. p. 65. Franz, Raymond (2007). Crisis of Conscience. Commentary Press. p. 57.ISBN 0-914675-23-0. Franz, Raymond. Crisis of Conscience. p. 44. The seven directors at October 20 were Nathan Knorr, Fred Franz, Grant Suiter, Thomas Sullivan, Milton Henschel, Lyman Swingle and John Groh. The additional four to form the Governing Body were William Jackson,  Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. , George Gangas and Raymond Franz. Testimony by Fred Franz, Lord Strachan vs. Douglas Walsh Transcript, Lord Strachan vs. Douglas Walsh, 1954, as cited by  Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. , Crisis of Conscience, 2007, page 75-76. "Theocratic Organization with Which to Move Forward Now; A Governing Body as Different from a Legal Corporation". The Watchtower. December 15, 1971. "A Governing Body as Different from a Legal Corporation". The Watchtower: 761. December 15, 1971. Yearbook of Jehovah's Witnesses. 1972. pp. 254–257. Franz, Raymond (2007). Crisis of Conscience. Commentary Press. p. 78.ISBN 0-914675-23-0. "Questions From Readers". The Watchtower: 703. November 15, 1972. Franz, Raymond (2007). Crisis of Conscience. Commentary Press. pp. 44–110. ISBN 0-914675-23-0. Penton, M. James (1997). Apocalypse Delayed: The Story of Jehovah's Witnesses. University of Toronto Press. p. 228. ISBN 0-8020-7973-3. Franz, Raymond (2007). Crisis of Conscience. Commentary Press. p. 45.ISBN 0-914675-23-0. Franz, Raymond (2007). Crisis of Conscience. Commentary Press. p. 46.ISBN 0-914675-23-0. Penton, M. James (1997). Apocalypse Delayed: The Story of Jehovah's Witnesses. University of Toronto Press. p. 215. ISBN 0-8020-7973-3. Franz, Raymond (2007). Crisis of Conscience. Commentary Press. pp. 81–105. ISBN 0-914675-23-0. Franz, Raymond (2007). Crisis of Conscience. Commentary Press. pp. 80–107. ISBN 0-914675-23-0. Jehovah's Witnesses–Proclaimers of God's Kingdom. Watch Tower Society. 1993. pp. 108–109. Penton, M. James (1997). Apocalypse Delayed: The Story of Jehovah's Witnesses. University of Toronto Press. p. 218. ISBN 0-8020-7973-3. Franz, Raymond (1997). Crisis of Conscience. p. 262. Penton, M. James (1997). Apocalypse Delayed: The Story of Jehovah's Witnesses. University of Toronto Press. pp. 117–123. ISBN 0-8020-7973-3. Botting, Heather & Gary (1984). The Orwellian World of Jehovah's Witnesses. University of Toronto Press. pp. 158–165. ISBN 0-8020-6545-7. Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. Franz, Raymond (2007). "11-12". Crisis of Conscience. Commentary Press. Penton, M. James (1997). Apocalypse Delayed: The Story of Jehovah's Witnesses. University of Toronto Press. pp. 219, 297–302, 319. ISBN 0-8020-7973-3. "Jehovah’s Provision, the “Given Ones”", The Watchtower, April 15, 1992, pages 16-17 "Announcement", The Watchtower, April 15, 1992, page 31 "Organizing for Further Expansion", 1993 Yearbook of Jehovah's Witnesses, ©Watch Tower, page 253-254 "Governing Body Addition", The Watchtower, November 1, 1994, page 29, "The new member is Gerrit Lösch. ... Lösch has served in the Executive Offices and as an assistant to the Service Committee." "New Members of the Governing Body", The Watchtower, January 1, 2000, page 29, "The new members, all anointed Christians, are Samuel F. Herd; M. Stephen Lett; Guy H. Pierce; and David H. Splane. Samuel Herd ... was also serving as a helper to the Service Committee. Stephen Lett ... was a helper to the Teaching Committee. Guy Pierce ... had been serving as a helper to the Personnel Committee. David Splane ... had been a helper to the Writing Committee." "New Members of the Governing Body", The Watchtower, March 15, 2006, page 26, "Geoffrey W. Jackson and Anthony Morris III—would be added to the Governing Body of Jehovah’s Witnesses. ... In April 2003, [Jackson] became part of the United States Bethel family and began to work in the Translation Services Department. Soon thereafter, Brother Jackson was made a helper to the Teaching Committee of the Governing Body ... 2002 [Morris] worked in the Service Department at Patterson and later as a helper to the Service Committee of the Governing Body." "Walking in the Path of Increasing Light", The Watchtower, February 15, 2006, page 28 "How the Governing Body Differs From a Legal Corporation". The Watchtower: 29. 15 January 2001. The Watchtower, May 15, 2008, page 29 "How the Governing Body is Organized", The Watchtower, May 15, 2008, page 29. Franz, Raymond (2007). Crisis of Conscience. Commentary Press. pp. 85, 115. ISBN 0-914675-23-0. "A History-Making Meeting", The Watchtower, Aug. 15, 2011, page 21. Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. "A “Body of Elders” with Rotating Chairmanship", The Watchtower, November 15, 1971, pages 699,700, "how will the “body of elders” in each congregation be selected? The governing body through the Watch Tower Society will send out a letter asking the committee that now looks after each congregation’s activity to...prayerfully consider who within your congregation really meets the qualifications of an elder or overseer. ...Then recommendations will be made to the governing body. ...After the governing body receives recommendations from the congregation, then proper appointments will be made. The governing body will do the appointing of elders in every congregation and this information will be sent out by the governing body through the various offices of the Society throughout the world." Hope Based on the Unfolding Purpose of God", The Watchtower, February 1, 1975, page 86 "Overseers and Ministerial Servants Theocratically Appointed", The Watchtower, January 15, 2001, page 15 "Overseers and Ministerial Servants Theocratically Appointed", The Watchtower, January 15, 2001, page 15, "In addition to appointing Branch Committee members, the Governing Body appoints Bethel elders and traveling overseers. However, they do commission responsible brothers to act for them in making certain other appointments." "“Keep Holding Men of That Sort Dear”", The Watchtower, October 1, 1988, page 18-19, "[The] traveling overseers sent forth by the Governing Body to preach the good news and help the congregations should be received hospitably and with respect. ...Elders, in particular, should show proper respect for these visiting representatives of the Governing Body. They are sent to the congregations because of their spiritual qualities and their experience, which is usually more extensive than that of many local elders." [emph added] "Cooperating With the Governing Body Today", The Watchtower, March 15, 1990, pages 19-20, "Since February 1, 1976, each of the branches of the Watch Tower Society has had a Branch Committee made up of capable men appointed by the Governing Body. As representatives of the Governing Bodyfor the country or countries under the supervision of their branch, these brothers must be faithful, loyal men. ...Branch Committees recommend mature, spiritual men to serve as circuit and district overseers. After being appointed directly by the Governing Body, they serve as traveling overseers. These brothers visit circuits and congregations in order to build them up spiritually and help them apply instructions received from the Governing Body." [emph added] "Humbly Submitting to Loving Shepherds", The Watchtower, April 1, 2007, page 27 "The Watchtower and Awake!—Timely Journals of Truth". The Watchtower: 21. January 1, 1994. "Building for an Eternal Future". The Watchtower: 25. January 1, 1986. Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. "Seek God's guidance in all things", The Watchtower, April 15, 2008, page 11. "‘They Shall Know that a Prophet Was Among Them’". The Watchtower: 200. April 1, 1972. "the modern-day “prophet,” the spirit-begotten, anointed ones who are the nucleus of Jehovah’s witnesses today" "The Things Revealed Belong to Us", The Watchtower, May 15, 1986, page 13. Franz, Raymond (2007). In Search of Christian Freedom. Commentary Press. p. 153. ISBN 0-914675-17-6. The Faithful Steward and Its Governing Body, The Watchtower, June 15, 2009, page 24 ¶18 Penton, M. James (1997). Apocalypse Delayed: The Story of Jehovah's Witnesses. University of Toronto Press. p. 211. ISBN 0-8020-7973-3. "The faithful slave and its governing body", The Watchtower, June 15, 2009, pages 23-24, "They do not believe that their being of the anointed gives them special insights beyond what even some experienced members of the "great crowd" may have. They do not believe that they necessarily have more holy spirit than their companions of the 'other sheep' have. They do not expect special treatment; nor do they claim that their partaking of the emblems places them above the appointed elders in the congregation." "A Secret Christians Dare Not Keep!", The Watchtower, June 1, 1997, page 14. "Insight That Jehovah Has Given", The Watchtower, March 15, 1989, page 22, "It is through the columns of The Watchtower that explanations of vital Scriptural truths have been provided for us by Jehovah’s 'faithful and discreet slave.' The Watchtower is the principal instrument used by the 'slave' class for dispensing spiritual food." "The faithful slave and its governing body", The Watchtower, June 15, 2009, pages 23-24. "The Spirit Searches into the Deep Things of God", The Watchtower, July 15, 2010, page 23, "When the time comes to clarify a spiritual matter in our day, holy spirit helps responsible representatives of 'the faithful and discreet slave' at world headquarters to discern deep truths that were not previously understood. The Governing Body as a whole considers adjusted explanations. What they learn, they publish for the benefit of all." "Question From Readers", "The Watchtower", August 15, 2011, page 22 Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. . "A Governing Body as Different from a Legal Corporation", The Watchtower, December 15, 1971, page 762 "The Governing Body", 1973 Yearbook of Jehovah's Witnesses, ©Watch Tower, page 257, "The Governing Body of Jehovah’s Witnesses consists of eleven brothers, all anointed of God. They are as follows: Frederick W. Franz, Raymond V. Franz, George D. Gangas,  Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. , John O. Groh, Milton G. Henschel, William K. Jackson, Nathan H. Knorr, Grant Suiter, Thomas J. Sullivan and Lyman A. Swingle." "New Members of the Governing Body", The Watchtower, January 1, 2000, page 29 "New Members of the Governing Body", The Watchtower, March 15, 2006, page 26 "Governing Body Addition", The Watchtower, November 1, 1994, page 29 Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. "Rejoicing Over "Victory With the Lamb", The Watchtower, October 15, 2007, page 31. "Britain", 2000 Yearbook of Jehovah's Witnesses, ©Watch Tower, page 130 "New Members of the Governing Body", The Watchtower, November 15, 1977, page 680 "Governing Body of Jehovah’s Witnesses Enlarged", The Watchtower, January 15, 1975, page 60 "We Were a Team", The Watchtower, April 1, 2001, page 24. "He Humbly Served Jehovah", The Watchtower, June 15, 1996, page 32. "A Joyful Perseverer in Good Work", The Watchtower, July 1, 1977, page 399. "Service Assembly and Annual Meeting—Pittsburg", The Watchtower, November 1, 1944, page 334. "How the Governing Body Differs From a Legal Corporation", The Watchtower, January 15, 2001, page 28. "His Deeds Follow Him", The Watchtower, December 1, 1994, page 31. Franz, Raymond (2007). Crisis of Conscience. Commentary Press. pp. 273–336. ISBN 0-914675-23-0. "Gilead Sends Missionaries “to the Most Distant Part of the Earth”", The Watchtower, December 15, 1999, page 28, "Theodore Jaracz, a member of the Governing Body, who himself graduated with Gilead’s seventh class in 1946" "Governing Body of Jehovah’s Witnesses Enlarged", The Watchtower, January 15, 1975, page 60 Theodore Jaracz Memorial Service Brochure (1.4MB) "Jehovah Has Dealt Rewardingly With Me", The Watchtower, October 1, 1984, page 21. Jehovah's Witnesses Proclaimers of God's Kingdom, "Background of N. H. Knorr", page 91: "On June 10, 1940, he became the vice-president of the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society (Pennsylvania corporation)." The Watchtower, July 15,1977, "Firm to the End", page 441. "A Staunch Fighter for the Truth", The Watchtower, September 15, 1988, page 31. "His Delight Was in the Law of Jehovah", The Watchtower, September 15, 2006, page 31. "The corporation, the WATCH TOWER BIBLE & TRACT SOCIETY, pursuant to its charter and by-laws, and the laws of the State of Pennsylvania, held its annual meeting at Pittsburgh, North Side, Allegheny County, Pennsylvania, on the first day of October, A.D. 1938, at which annual meeting a Board of Directors was elected as follows, to wit: J. F. Rutherford, C. A. Wise, W. E. Van Amburgh, H. H. Riemer, T. J. Sullivan, Wm. P. Heath, Jr., and Grant Suiter, to hold office for a period of three years, or until their successors are duly elected." - 1939 Yearbook of Jehovah's Witnesses, "Election", page 195 "A Loyal Fighter Passes On", The Watchtower, February 1, 1984, page 9. "He Ran for “The Prize of the Upward Call” and Won!", The Watchtower, September 15, 1974, page 554, "On October 31, 1932, he [Sullivan] was made a member of the board of directors of the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society of Pennsylvania; he was also one of the eleven-member governing body of Jehovah’s witnesses." "A Time of Testing ( Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. -1918)", Jehovah's Witnesses - Proclaimers of God's Kingdom, ©1993 Watch Tower, page 71, "Thomas (Bud) Sullivan, who later served as a member of the Governing Body, recalled: “It was my privilege to visit Brooklyn Bethel in the late summer of 1918 during the brothers’ incarceration." Jehovah's Witnesses–Proclaimers of God's Kingdom. Watch Tower Society. 1993. p. 91. "How Priceless Your Friendship, O God!", The Watchtower, June 1, 1985, page 27. "Governing Body of Jehovah’s Witnesses Enlarged", 1975 Yearbook of Jehovah's Witnesses, ©Watch Tower, page 60 Yearbook of Jehovah's Witnesses. 1980. pp. 257–258. "Announcements", Our Kingdom Ministry, August 1980, page 2, "Raymond Victor Franz is no longer a member of the Governing Body and of the Brooklyn Bethel family as of May 22, 1980." Penton, M. James (1997). Apocalypse Delayed: The Story of Jehovah's Witnesses. University of Toronto Press. p. 120. ISBN 0-8020-7973-3. Beverley, James A. (1986). Crisis of Allegiance. Burlington, Ontario: Welch Publishing Company. p. 71. ISBN 0-920413-37-4. 1986 Yearbook of Jehovah's Witnesses, ©Watch Tower, page 255 Penton, M. James (1997). Apocalypse Delayed: The Story of Jehovah's Witnesses. University of Toronto Press. pp. 322, 393. ISBN 0-8020-7973-3. Geoffrey Jackson testifies before the Australian Royal Commission 2015  
       
    • By James Thomas Rook Jr.
      As my wife and I are preparing to adopt five children, and knowing historically how many elders' children have abandoned the Truth, for whatever reasons there might be, common to mankind ... the thought occurred to me ... Were all of the Apostles Single?
      If any were married, how did they balance their responsibilities to their families, with the field ministry?
      If they were in the Ministry, were they supported by the congregations from the Apostles money box ... and were their families also supported as they rove about ministering about the Good News?
      If so, that would indicate a paid clergy !
      I suppose it all hinges on he first question.
      WERE ALL OF THE APOSTLES SINGLE ?
    • By Witness
      As the result of job change many years ago, we moved the family of three young children from the vicinity of the Pacific Ocean to the vicinity of a large mountain lake in California.   Until housing was found, a drafty, “caretaker’s cottage”, built around 1900 and part of once was a privately owned grand estate, was offered as temporary housing for those brief summer months. Since 1965, this estate has been a state park attracting thousands of visitors each year. A handful of these visitors ogled my dishwashing techniques from the window of our borrowed kitchen, while on their independent tour of the estate.  The cottage porch sits back just a bit from the lake’s shoreline, and close by, the mouth of a small creek empties into its chilly waters.  That summer, the lake level was below its natural rim; and the creek, a perfect flow for three boys to wade up and down between its banks.  In this creek, a discovery was made.  A gooey clay cache oozed between the toes of the oldest son’s bare feet, and soon a combined slip and clay lumps were hand scooped from the creek bottom and brought to the front porch for sculpting.  Young hands formed and reformed small pots and trinkets put aside to dry in the warm sun.  Because of the clay’s raw, unrefined quality, the artwork produced didn’t survive long; crumbling into dust as the summer days passed by.
      During that time period as a JW entering a new congregation, I would not have recalled to mind God’s people as clay from the earth in a potter’s hands. Jer 18:6 (Acts 7:49; Mark 14:58; Matt 16:1; Mark 14:58; Matt 16:18; Eph 2:19-22) Only briefly did an anointed one join the congregation; an older woman, and very submissive to the elder body’s direction.  She seemed so fragile, resulting from her age; yet now, I can envision her as “clay” in the hands of the Father.  I was oblivious then, that the chosen ones were in jeopardy of becoming ‘crushed’ under the unseen heavy weight of a “Gentile”/Elder rule.  Do you, JWs, realize that the power of the “holy ones” is crumbling to dust under this dominion?  This is the reality in the Watchtower among God’s chosen people.  Dan 2:35; 8:13; 12:7; Rev 13:1,4-8  Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content.
      As long as good clay remains supple in the hands of a skilled potter, a beautiful and useful formation is born.  God desires this for His people under covenant with him; to fulfill His purpose for all of His children in the Kingdom.   Isa 64:8; 2 Cor 4:7; Gal 6:15; 2 Tim 2:20-21; Eph 2:6,7,20-22;3:9-11    Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content.
      Yet, each one since Christ, has faced a refinement period allowed by God; a sifting put upon them by Satan through dominating powers.  Luke 22:31; 1 Pet 4:12,13   In the Watchtower organization, other hands and other minds are at work coercing this possession of God, to remain marked as unrefined and susceptible to complete crushing under an iron rule and its lies. Rev 2:26,27;13:16;14:9,10; 2 Thess 2:11,12  At the upper level, its anointed leaders have molded as defiled impure clay, to the iron; ‘mingling’ as one dominating power of both clay and iron; spiritual “Israel” with spiritual “Gentiles”, who are the un-anointed elder body. (Rom 9:6; Gal 6:16; 3:29)   Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content.
      This merging of powers is depicted in the feet of the image from Daniel’s dream. It is the final kingdom, unlike any other, that comes against the “holy people” during the time of the end. Will God’s “clay” turn back to the Potter seeking refinement, and leave this oppressive power ruling over them?  Well, how often in the past has the majority of the nation of Israel listened to God and been forgiven for their transgressions?  Always, only a remnant was restored.  Dan 2:41-43; 2:40; 7:23; Job 10:9; Hos 8:8; Isa 1:16-18,2,9     Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content.
      FROM WATCHTOWER’S “ISAIAH’S PROPHESY”: “In these “last days,” Jehovah has bared his holy arm in order to revive the anointed remnant, the “two witnesses” of the book of Revelation. (2 Tim 3:1; Rev 11:3,7-13) Since 1919, these have been brought into a spiritual paradise, the spiritual estate that they now share with millions of their associates, the other sheep. ip-2 chap. 13 pp. 180-193
      “These “escaped ones” were restored to their God-given spiritual estate, which he caused to sprout abundantly. THIS SPIRITUAL ESTATE HAS PRESENTED AN INVITING, ATTRACTIVE APPEARANCE, which has drawn millions of other God-fearing people to join the remnant in true worship.” ip-1 chap. 6 pp. 61-72
      To believe that the Watchtower holds a refined remnant of spiritual “Israel” to come out of the “world”, is true folly.  Its version of Revelation’s “two witnesses” were those who “took the lead” and were physically imprisoned by the U.S. government after preaching in “sackcloth”.   Why were they imprisoned?  Among other charges, it was for Rutherford’s publication “The Finished Mystery”, which contained his blatant accusations against the political and religious entities and their stand concerning the war at hand.  He and his cohorts were charged with sedition. When this charge was made, Rutherford scrambled not only to stop further printing of the book, but required the Bible Students to rip out 7 pages of it; all to AVOID being sentenced to jail.  The Society even encouraged the Bible Students to buy war bonds and participate in a day of prayer for victory, all to appease the government.  Although the Watchtower has revealed some truth regarding these events, it then glorifies and embellishes it, as you see written in “Isaiah’s Prophesy” by effectively hiding the true account from its members.
      Did this book reveal biblical truth and Revelation from Christ?  Did it explain the need for God’s Temple anointed priesthood to be refined and cleansed of all sin and idolatry, by speaking in the manner of Moses and Elijah; or, was it preaching lies? (1 Pet 2:5,9;1 Cor 3:16,17; Dan 12:10; Mal 3:1,2; 1 Pet 1:7; Matt 17:1,2; Rev 11:1-3)   Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content.
      Watchtower’s own “Revelation” book gives a conflicting report on “The Finished Mystery” exposed by a leaflet covering various aspects of the book.  This leaflet was created by JWs, not by the website where it was found.  After quoting two contrasting remarks from the Revelation Book, it states:
      “Therefore, according to ‘Revelation – It’s Grand Climax at Hand!’, even though ‘The Finished Mystery’ ‘proved to be UNSATISFACTORY AS AN EXPLANATION OF REVELATION’, its distribution was SOMEHOW INSTRUMENTAL in fulfilling the bible prophesy in Revelation 11 concerning the ‘Two Witnesses’ and the manner which they ‘struck the earth with every sort of plague’.” (caps mine)   Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content.
      In truth, “The Finished Mystery” struck the “earth” – God’s chosen ones – with every sort of lie imaginable and is well documented in the leaflet. 
      Revelation’s authentic “two witnesses” preach in “sackcloth” over the detestable things committed by God’s anointed Temple priesthood; yet, “The Finished Mystery” and all Wt. literature concerning the message of the “two witnesses”, deflects attention away from God’s chosen people, to those outside of His Covenant by targeting Christendom and the world’s governments.
      These “two witnesses” are not symbolically “killed” for their brief jail time and then later released to further spout off more lies and more false prophesy; but are rejected for exposing the real identity of the Beast/”man of lawlessness” and the false prophet/Harlot directing it. They have spent years in captivity among their own people, drinking in Wormwood’s corruptive waters before waking up to Truth.  It is then they are “killed” when speaking TRUTH revealed by Christ; disfellowshipped and marked as spiritually “dead”.  Luke 21:24; Rev 13:7,10; Micah 4:10; John 16:2; Rev 8:11;13:15; 12:11    Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content.
      Through Satan’s full use of his earthly resources, he has successfully spun a “spiritual estate” as attractive and inviting; yet, this spiritually immoral, sultry deception that JWs slave to maintain, effectively afflicts and trample God’s chosen people. It is an oppression symbolically perceived through the physical evidence of the combined iron and clay powers ruling over them.  Matt 24:15; Dan 8:11   Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content.
      When Pilate presented both the robber Barabbas and Jesus before the Jewish leaders and the people, he asked,  “Which of the two do you want me to release to you?” asked the governor. “Barabbas,” they answered. Matt 27:21
      Barabbas, (meaning “son of a father”), a robber and killer, was arrested for sedition – “insurrection”, by the Gentile Roman government. Mark 15:7; Luke 23:18,19   Although guilty for his crimes, he was also released by that same power at the demands of the Jewish spiritual leaders.  Rutherford was also released, having his own confidantes fighting for him.  He was not pardoned or exonerated because his innocence was established, as the Watchtower would have you believe. Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content.
      (see:  
      Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. ) However, at the vicious demands of the Pharisees and his own people, Jesus was put to death by the Gentile nation for exposing the Pharisees as hypocritical liars and spiritual adulterers; and for laying “heavy loads” on the people they ruled over. Matt 20:17-19; John 8:44,45; Matt 23:4 He preached “repent for the Kingdom of heaven has come near”. Matt 3:2    Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content.
       Likewise, on the authority of the Harlot/GB, the “two witnesses” are handed over to the “Gentile”/elder body and judged as apostates worthy of “death”. They also, expose the leaders of their people for spiritual blasphemy, preaching the same message as Jesus did to God’s wayward nation, to “repent for the Kingdom of heaven has come near”.  Matt 10:17,18,21,22; John 16:2; Rev 13:1,5-7,11,12,14,15;  Matt 10:16,19,20,24; Rev 11:3,4;11:7    Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content.
       So, what about Rutherford and Watchtower’s string of leadership? Is it fair to say they are "robbers" and "killers" - sons of the Father of the lie? If anointed ones preach lies and not truth in Christ, do they not rob one of teachings leading to eternal life?     Matt 23:13-15; 15:14; Rom 9:1; Ps 52:1-4; Matt 7:15-20  When they spiritually “kill” their brothers for speaking truth, does this not make them spiritually blood guilty?  Matt 24:48-51; 27:25; 23:34; John 16:2,3; Rev 16:2,5,6,7; 18:24  The organizational arrangement was “born” during Rutherford’s reign.  This arrangement allowed for the development of the power of iron to eventually overcome the Temple of God, at the authority of the Harlot/GB.  Rev 11:1; Matt 24:15; Dan 11:31,32,36; 2 Thess 2:4; Rev 9:1,3,10,11     Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content.
      JWs, how long will you keep listening to Watchtower’s persistent attempt to cover over its lies with more lies?  Matt 24:15-21; Luke 17:26-30    Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content.
      "You are a king, then!" said Pilate. Jesus answered, "You say that I am a king. In fact, the reason I was born and came into the world is to testify to the TRUTH. Everyone on the side of truth listens to me." John 18:37
      Testifying to the TRUTH is the purpose Jesus sends his “two witnesses” to the Temple priesthood and “clay” of the earth.  Their warning call shouts out and reveals the looming iron/clay power threatening the salvation of God’s chosen people, and all, who reside in the organization.  Ezek 33:6,8; Rev 9:17-20; 13:8; 2 Thess 2:9-10   Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content.
      This is the word that came to Jeremiah from the Lord:  “Go down at once to the potter’s house; there I will reveal my words to you.” So I went down to the potter’s house, and there he was, working away at the wheel. But the jar that he was making from the clay became flawed in the potter’s hand, so he made it into another jar, as it seemed right for him to do.
       The word of the Lord came to me:  “House of Israel, can I not treat you as this potter treats his clay?”—this is the Lord’s declaration. “Just like clay in the potter’s hand, so are you in my hand, house of Israel.  At one moment I might announce concerning a nation or a kingdom that I will uproot, tear down, and destroy it.  However, if that nation about which I have made the announcement turns from its evil, I will relent concerning the disaster I had planned to do to it.  At another time I might announce concerning a nation or a kingdom that I will build and plant it. However, if it does what is evil in my sight by not listening to me, I will relent concerning the good I had said I would do to it.  So now, say to the men of Judah and to the residents of Jerusalem, ‘This is what the Lord says: Look, I am about to bring harm to you and make plans against you. Turn now, each from your evil way, and correct your ways and your deeds.’ 
       But they will say, ‘It’s hopeless. We will continue to follow our plans, and each of us will continue to act according to the stubbornness of his evil heart.’”  Jer 18:1-12
      The Watchtower teaches that God's people are like "clay in the Potter's hands", then turns the attention of JWs to Satan's world for fulfillment of the feet of the image in Daniel's dream.  Yet, the "disgusting thing standing in the holy place" of Matt 24:15 and Dan 9:27  is spoken as the coalition of power in Dan 11:14-16; one of these powers as COMING  "FROM YOUR OWN PEOPLE" - spiritual "Israel", and the "clay" of  the last power in Daniel's image.  
      Pearl Doxsey has several articles about the last destructive power over the holy ones.
      “Iron and Clay”
      “Why Jesus Came to Earth/Last World Power Over the Chosen ones/”Iron” and “Clay”
      The meaning of ““World/earth/home”
      4womaninthewilderness
       
       
       
       
       
       
    • By James Thomas Rook Jr.
      Which Pill Would We Take ..... The Red Pill? .... or the Blue Pill?
      In the political world, more and more people are rejecting "Fake News" as provided by CNN (Clinton News Network), ABC (All 'bout Clinton) and NBC (Nothin' but Clinton), etc., and are seeking the truth about what they are being told ..... wherever it may be found.
      Today John Stossel had an article about this on Foxnews which is incredibly important ... not only for the political ramifications ... but every manner of philosophical thought ....  and our very view of how the Universe works, and what "makes it tick".
      If you have seen the movie "The Matrix" .... a MUST SEE movie .... you already know the common expression "Red Pill? Blue Pill?".
      If you don't ... YOU SHOULD. 
      The concept behind the expression is incredibly important ... as to whether we live in and artificial fantasy construct world ... or a world of what is actually REAL.
      Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content.
      Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content.
      Oh ... and if you have not seen it .... get a copy of the movie, so you will actually get a "feel" for the depth of the now commonly understood  idiomatic expression.
      (For those in Rio Linda, that has nothing to do with sex, it has to do with basic understanding .....)
      Grok?
       
       
       
       
       
    • By Noble Berean
      The February 2017 WT had this to say about the GB:
      Compare this to the November 2016 WT which had this to say about the GB's authority:
      The GB wants the unquestioned control and the credit for leading God's organization, but they also wants total freedom from accountability when they are wrong. The existence of the org is based around everyone accepting this premise.
      But how is this premise not 100% illogical and absurd? The GB is presenting itself in 2 completely conflicting ways:
      The GB is uninspired, fallible, and errs, so they should not be blamed for incorrect direction. The GB should not be questioned by JWs, and there is no place for independent thinking. The GB cannot state they make errors in their direction and simultaneously demand unquestioned obedience to their direction. That doesn't make any sense. If anything, JWs should be skeptical of the GB's directions because of their history of incorrect direction. However, critical thinking is discouraged as a negative trait in organization literature--even when that thinking is based on the Bible.
      If there is a God, then surely he is just, and I cannot imagine he would structure an organization on such an illogical premise.
      Think of how this premise negatively affects JWs. Adherents are essentially commanded to follow direction that may be 100% wrong. They are told to "wait on Jehovah" if they have doubts. This also means that a JW could be punished for having a correct idea that is currently not in harmony with the GB. I'm sure this has happened with JWs over its history.
      Also, isn't it disturbing that the GB have set things up so that they have maximum control and minimum accountability? It's the definition of plausible deniability. Everyone here is well aware of the legal issues with blood transfusion rejection and the sex abuse. In these legal matters, it is pretty clear that the organization is distancing themselves from any accountability and is instead placing the burden on the individual JW. This flies in the face of the culture of the religion where everything a JW does revolves around supporting the organization. There is no room for personal opinion. To suggest otherwise in legal cases is very dishonest and shady. Moreover, it goes against the idea that their is an equal relationship--we're supposed to die over organizational doctrines but the GB won't even acknowledge their role in court proceedings?
      The very fact the organization uses plausible deniability in their literature is highly suspect. The fact that they can force JWs to follow their direction, but when it's wrong they can point to a WT and say, "See! We said we were fallible and uninspired!" It all smells dishonest and shady.
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