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By the way .... has the Society recently decided that voting is a matter of personal conscience?


James Thomas Rook Jr.

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30 minutes ago, Arauna said:

Why should a  ignorant  office worker in some government department decide we are 'extreme' people and a 'threat to public health' when the God of the universe tells us to abstain from blood?

You are asking the wrong question, Arauna, about people who have police power (bayonets) to enforce whatever their perspective is .... right or wrong.

The question SHOULD be... the question you should be concerned about is why does the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society LIE to the Bulgarian Government that we do not impose congregational sanctions on those who accept blood... SPECIFICALLY, disfellowshipping, and and extreme shunning.

ANY JW, ANYWHERE, knows this is NOT TRUE.

THIS is what you should be concerned with.

Oh, as an aside, I still do not have my answer about are there congregational sanctions currently against a person voting in a political election.

The answers we get are so weasel worded that they can mean ANYTHING.

If you know better ... please correct me.

What I am looking for is the latest information, in light of Norway's threat to withhold MONEY from the Society, for violating what Norway considers one of the most basic of all human rights... and labeling us us as "extremists".

I strongly suspect because there is MONEY involved, we are soon, if not already, going to be allowed to vote without being censured or disfellowshipped.

 

MONEY .mp4

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This will soon be so. Governments will clamp down on ANY organization which enforces biblical law... I see you do not get it.  ..the tide against ALL Christian' laws/principles  is turning. It wi

You are asking the wrong question, Arauna, about people who have police power (bayonets) to enforce whatever their perspective is .... right or wrong. The question SHOULD be... the question you s

As i am aware , voting as practice is not strange thing to WT Society. History tells us how voting is common way of bringing decisions and resolving problems. Until today. Elders voting on their meeti

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4 hours ago, JJJ-AUSTRALIA said:

Each person will have to choose if they will vote. !

This will soon be so. Governments will clamp down on ANY organization which enforces biblical law... I see you do not get it.  ..the tide against ALL Christian' laws/principles  is turning.

It will be up to the individual to decide to vote, not take a blood transfusion, or not condone unchristian behaviour,  by cutting association with those who approve LGBT or any other prohibition imposed God.  You do not get it - this is the 'beginning ' of governments enforcing their new moral laws on all Christian's and especially those who stand out for their obedience to laws which other christians do not care about.  In England and Scandinavia people are going to prison or taken into custody for talking against Islam and LGBT - soon it will include voting, blood transfusions and shunning.... and much more........ the world will take away freedom of choice and impose their humanist/satanic laws on us under the guise of human rights.

 

 

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40 minutes ago, Arauna said:

Why should a  ignorant  office worker in some government department decide we are 'extreme' people and a 'threat to public health' when the God of the universe tells us to abstain from blood?

The true evidence is that transfusions are in reality a great threat to public health with all the fatal diseases which can be transmitted such as Hepatitis C, AIDS, syphilis.... just to mention three which come to mind.

They greatest threat of blood transfusion is anaphylactic shock - which is never put on death certificates as cause of death - and in reality is the greatest cause of death after surgery.... By third day after the surgery it starts manifesting and then the death certificate usually says "complications after surgery".  

So, in the final analyses it is about obedience to jehovah.  If one believes he really exists - will one deliberately ignore his laws ?  ......and risk losing his Holy Spirit? 

What you guys here do not get is that the risk is high when one deliberately disobeys God........ one risks getting an unapproved mental state.... and then it does not matter if you are shunned by others.  Your own mental state will shun you....... because you will become an opposer and be shunned for a brazen attitude by breaking some other laws of God as well. 

You may become like some people here on this forum who gives each other silly likes when they find material which condemns JHws while they (the JWs) are in the situation of trying to obey God.  I bet some of the opposers here will feel justified when our persecution starts and revel in our being designated "extreme" and even enjoy our persecution.   God predicted it would happen.

That is the mental state you get when you disobey jehovah and think you can make your own rules as you go along and condone hate against those trying to obey the laws of God.

Even if governments force their laws and morality on us and outlaw shunning.......(which I predict they will do in the near future) , obedience to the laws of God and his personal approval of the individual will still remain the factor in final approval  and  opportunity for life everlasting.

Wow...  Just wow. 

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55 minutes ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

Oh, as an aside, I still do not have my answer about are there congregational sanctions currently against a person voting in a political election.

Well I haven't heard or see anything as yet about voting, but wouldn't surprise me that they will make a public declaration saying is a personal decision and no JW would be deciplined if they do. 

55 minutes ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

Oh, as an aside, I still do not have my answer about are there congregational sanctions currently against a person voting in a political election.

Well I haven't heard or see anything as yet about voting, but wouldn't surprise me that they will make a public declaration saying is a personal decision and no JW would be deciplined if they do. 

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8 hours ago, Arauna said:

This will soon be so. Governments will clamp down on ANY organization which enforces biblical law... I see you do not get it.  ..the tide against ALL Christian' laws/principles  is turning.

It will be up to the individual to decide to vote, not take a blood transfusion, or not condone unchristian behaviour,  by cutting association with those who approve LGBT or any other prohibition imposed God.  You do not get it - this is the 'beginning ' of governments enforcing their new moral laws on all Christian's and especially those who stand out for their obedience to laws which other christians do not care about.  In England and Scandinavia people are going to prison or taken into custody for talking against Islam and LGBT - soon it will include voting, blood transfusions and shunning.... and much more........ the world will take away freedom of choice and impose their humanist/satanic laws on us under the guise of human rights.

 

 

If blood is soooo sacred in the eyes of the GB / Org, they why do the GB 'allow' JW's to accept fractions of HUMAN BLOOD ?

I would have thought the mere 'messing about' with / disecting of, human blood would be seen as wrong. That blood has been removed from someone's body. Shouldn't all blood removed be 'pored out on the ground' ? 

On this subject, can someone tell me exactly how many different types of blood fractions JW's are 'allowed' to use ? I have tried to research it but it get confusing to me. 

On a wider scale of things though,it definitely shows that the GB are the GOVERNING BODY, dictating rules of men,doesn't it ?

Didn't Jesus say how wrong that was ? Lording it over the congregation. 

God is going to judge us through Christ, so do we really need to be dictated to by men ? Are we not allowed to have a conscience ?  Guidelines, yes, but man made rules dictated to servants of God, no. Especially as failures of those in charge are easily seen. It seems like some here want to go back to the lie told about the 'Superior Authorities' just to gain more power over the earth wide congregation.. 

 

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Since the internet archive “wayback machine” is mostly supported by ex-witnesses, and since people seem to be enlightened by questionable content from the internet in the last 6 months like John Butler from the U.K. was, that is most likely running assumed accounts just like everyone else here, people should have no problem joining ex-witness churches. They will be glad to be enlightened by present day dissatisfied witnesses. Especially those that have been removed by the society for their worldly behavior and or believe Christ words of obedience are just too hard to handle.

The Christian Ministry Witnesses for Jesus, Inc.

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21 hours ago, Arauna said:

Non- voting is the reason governments will hate us as is our stance to refuse to go to war. 

In general, many people don't go to vote. I am not sure but in many countries less than 50% of population that have right to vote doing that. So, all of them will be target for "hate" :)) Perhaps basement would be good place for hide from haters. :))

There is about 22 countries where voting is mandatory.

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20 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

they why do the GB 'allow' JW's to accept fractions of HUMAN BLOOD ?

The bible talks about blood (whole blood).  So when it comes to fractions,  it is a personal choice.  There are governments/states which are already making it mandatory (UN-driven) to get certain vaccinations - which by the way also supports the pharmaceutical industrial  complex. In some countries they can take your children away if you break this vaccination law.

Vaccination is a contentious issue and opposers to it will soon become marked individuals as we get closer to Armageddon..... and governments, under UN control, more controlling. Why is it contentious?  Some vaccinations have human fetus tissue in it.....and  fractions of white blood cells are used in some anti-venom (snake) preparations etc.  So it can become a quagmire of regulations to regulate each product. The mature Christian will have to learn to discern. The GB will not become like the pharisees who tried to interpret more than the written word from God they had received. 

13 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

general, many people don't go to vote. I

They do not vote because of indifference etc.  We are actively supporting only a future government of God under Jesus.  Ambassadors for a foreign government do not get involved in the host countries' politics but only represents his own government.  

We are envoys for god's government only and hence stay out of the secular politics. Our reasons for neutrality is not indifference, laziness or any other reason.  This is why we do not fight in foreign wars.  We are citizens of a future government and learning and adhering to the laws of this future government.

Soon we will face persecution for this stance.  Jesus was murdered because the religious leaders saw him as a political threat. They said : if everyone follows this man they will come and take our country away.  They obviously supported the dissidents against Rome in their day.

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Interesting that people will say the GB will not become like the Pharisees who tried to interpret more than the written word of God... I'm sure you have not read the Secret book of the elders "The Shepherd Book" that secret book itself is a proof how far they gone from the word of God.

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6 hours ago, Arauna said:

They do not vote

As i am aware , voting as practice is not strange thing to WT Society. History tells us how voting is common way of bringing decisions and resolving problems. Until today. Elders voting on their meetings. Congregants also voting while making resolutions. So, this is not any different from what world doing. Subjects are different. But many things about "worldly" things are not in opposition to Bible. If, people who leaving in one street or area have to do something for common interest, for example, to build new water system or rebuild old one, and it is needed to collect "information" of how many people are ready to contribute with money, or who are ready to and will sign contract (to vote) for that purpose, you need to use this sort of democratic process - to vote for or against something.

I would say how JW's are not against voting inside WT Society, but are against voting in secular life. Many things exists when decision is needed,have nothing with "politics"(state or political party things), but on other hand all in our life is politic anyway. 

Definition of politic

1: POLITICAL

2: characterized by shrewdness in managing, contriving, or dealing

3: sagacious in promoting a policy

4: shrewdly tactful

In that sense, JW as people who know what is good and how to accomplish this same, are in position to mandatory doing good because they know doing good. If anyone, then, knows the good they ought to do and doesn’t do it, it is sin for them. - James 4. JW not need to go voting for new senator, or president, but will doing good to not be so "indifferent", as they are,  in many other secular things in everyday life.

6 hours ago, Arauna said:

We are citizens of a future government and learning and adhering to the laws of this future government.

Yes, you are entitled to have such feelings. BUT Until That Time Comes, you have to care about your garbage, ecology, animals, electricity, new urbanistic planes in your place of living, safety or traffic issues in the street, etc. General standpoint of JW's about this is exactly what you called as ...  indifference. 

We are actively supporting only a future government of God .... and with this sentence you presenting what i try to explain. JW's are not active in supporting ... animal shelters or shelters for beaten woman and sexual abused children, homeless ...and so on.   

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To quote Arauna  "We are citizens of a future government and learning and adhering to the laws of this future government."

It would seem you are 'citizens' of the Christian Congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses, and adhering to the 'laws' of it's Governing Body. 

@Srecko Sostar I like your last paragraph above. 

When Jesus was here on earth he healed the sick and helped those in need, in a physical way as well as a spiritual way.  Jesus has empathy and matched it with action.  Now did Jesus do this just to show what the future 'paradise' would be like, to show that through God's holy spirit he could solve all the problems of the people ? Or, did Jesus do those things because he really cared for the people ? Or both ? 

And thinking on the scripture from James concerning 'widows and orphans', is this action only to be used within the Org or more generally ? 

 

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21 hours ago, Arauna said:

Some vaccinations have human fetus tissue in it.....and  fractions of white blood cells are used in some anti-venom (snake) preparations etc

In the Boy Scouts, when a fellow Scout was bitten by a snake, they taught us to cut two "X"s on the snake bite, and suck the venom out, then spit it out.

Unless of course you get bitten in "certain private areas".....

..THEN ... you let them die.

I am unfamiliar if there is any "new light" on this teaching.

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