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2 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

That what people doing is questionable, but it is not something what can be connected to issue of hierarchy in core, in fundamental meaning. Those examples

What people do well give them power in this world and contributes to he hierarchical system and sometime they are seen as 'better'than others just because of a talent. No wonder the super rich think they have a 'right' to tell us how to live our lives.

Jehovah hates hierarchy. One person is not supposed to tell another how to live their lives.  Each one is free under jehovah. Jerusalem above is symbolized by Sarah ... the free woman (not the slave Hagar) in Galations. 

Our elders and the slave are "servants" not rulers. And it should not be seen as hierarchy because they are "fellow believers". They do have authority to correct us when we stray from Jehovahs way and even keep the organization clean but they are not to lord it over  us like some (in their imperfection) try to do. 

The GB and the committees under them are servants /slaves of jehovah (not slaves to their own desires) who give us spiritual direction..... they do not 'rule' in worldly sense. 

When you go into a deep forest with a guide..... the guide does all the work.  He chops off the branches and shrubs that can hurt those following him. He gets in a high tree to see if we are still on the right track/direction.  If he makes a mistake he must re-adjust himself.  This is how true leaders must be - a servant of others.  Unfortunately, some in the organization still think that they must "rule" in worldly sense.  They are not mature.  When the disciples asked about sitting on Jesus's  right in kingdom..... jesus explained the humility of serving others...... this is key......

We are all expected to re-adjust ourselves by constantly searching of our hearts. Sometimes,  due to imperfection,  we stray. The elders are 'assigned' to watch over us and re-adjust us if we do not do it ourselves. 

Hierarchy, is a worldly feature...... not a theocratic feature. 

We assign servants and elders for a specific job - just as the anointed are anointed for a different job.... they are qualified for it because they have proved faithful to jehovah and his standards.  Not because they were smarter, more talented or accomplished.

It is a good question that you ask about our obedience to rulers of the world.  Jehovah warns us that the worldly rulers "carry the sword " to bring their own form of justice upon us. So we comply to their requests - unless they want us to break Jehovahs instructions.  Then we have to take the unjust form of justice they wish to bestow upon us because we are still in this world..... soon this will change.

Some countries have really corrupt government systems. Because we do not participate in politics we do not become political activists or demonstrate for any cause and draw unwanted attention to ourselves.  We just obey God, do the work God gave us, and pay our taxes in honesty and obey the law when it does not conflict with the law of God. . We want to be known as "mild and reasonable" people, servants of jehovah.  Obey the system you were born under

If you were born a slave, you did not fight to be free but gave the best to your owner asif serving jehovah. Your time went to your master but your heart and obedience was to jehovah. Your good conduct could lead your master to change. These slaves mentioned in the bible knew they were "future rulers " of gods kingdom...... they did not need status in this world. 

2 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

In what scenario? Under what circumstances?

In sense of law and application of law we are all equal under gods law - no exceptions for status, talent or spiritual position/assignment.


2 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

who are that "all"? Does God's

The ransom works for those who understand it, accept it and have faith in it.  To have faith in it one must do the first two.

2 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

recommendations, commands how to act. Is this hierarchy wrong?

God allows governments to keep order for now. Some governments handle the Corona situation badly and some well. We will not get angry if our government did it badly because we understand that in future life jehovah will compensate for all injustices. We do not get involved in how they administer their worldly duties. We are spiritual people, looking forward to Jehovahs promises.

Yes even GB comply - because we are not banned from preaching.... we mildly adjust to preach in different ways. I have been doing phone calls and following up on people that I  should have done  before.

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I don't believe the maker of the video was showing jealousy; but instead, he was showing your leader  up as a hypocrite.  As this video also shows, about the vow of poverty that all in Bethel are unde

I can't imagine even one exjw being jealous of Stephen Lett.  It's not about jealously.  It's about hypocrisy, which is the opposite of righteousness.  

He did ... he owns a huge piece of wooded property where the road that serves Warwick HQ Tees into the main State road .... PERFECT for motels, gas stations, or a strip mall.  This can be researched t

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@Arauna says there is no hierarchy in the CCJW. 

@TrueTomHarley says NO ONE can disfellowship the Governing Body.

Can you see the contradiction here. 

@Arauna  says the GB are the 'slave'  BUT :-

From 1927 until 2012, this faithful and discreet slave was interpreted as all anointed Jehovah’s Witnesses. (see Jehovah’s Witnesses – Proclaimers of God’s Kingdom, p.626) 

BUT :-

Since July 15 2013, Jehovah’s Witnesses have been told – and now believe – that the “Faithful & Discreet slave” is their governing body only. Confirmation of this fact is found in  The Watchtower July 15 2013 page 21, paragraph 10:

This relates to Matthew 24 v 48 - 49  48  “But if ever that evil slave says in his heart, ‘My master is delaying,’b 49  and he starts to beat his fellow slaves ... 

The reason that the (GB) evil slave says that " My Master is delaying " is because the ( GB ) evil slave have been concerned about the exact time of Armageddon. They have been predicting the 'time of the end' over and over again. They are now embarrassed about their false prediction and have had to admit to NOT being inspired of Holy spirit. This of course makes them more worried about their position and escalates the beating of their Fellow Slaves. 

BUT @TrueTomHarley  Still says that no one can disfellowship the GB. 

This shows that the GB have exalted themselves above the rest of the Slave Anointed ones and shows proof of the hierarchy in the CCJW. 


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Irregardless of any story proposed ... Arauna,  let's say hypothetically that half the Governing Body was caught embezzling donated funds for their own use .... who on this Earth has the ability to hold them to account?

If it was common knowledge, and the proof was self evident, splashed all over the news media of the world ... we would NEVER hear about it from the platform, in the Watchtower .... not a word.

AND ... there is, to the best of what I know, there is NO ONE to call them to account.

We have the example of the Old Testament accounts of Jehovah's patience being VERY LONG as regards graft and corruption ... until it reaches a tipping point ... and I suspect that is so because he waits to see how WE will handle our own affairs.

So, Arauna, please tell me if, as a hypothetical example, such malfeasance and corruption by the Governing Body, is ever discovered  ... who among us can do anything about it?



I also suspect you disclaimed answering the question, is because you in fact do know the answer ....

..... as we all do.

They are completely unaccountable.

Please correct me if I am wrong.

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41 minutes ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

was caught embezzling donated funds for their own use

A bad example because I do not think that any of them know anything about bookkeeping.  In a case like that it usually is one person that does it in secret or maybe two..... but all eight together?  I doubt it. 

If one committed adultery...... I doubt all would do it at the same time unless it was an orgy, then the other GB members could make up a committee and hear the case.

So these hypothetical cases are really going into the realm of the ludicrous. 

I am not saying that one or two of them cannot get up to mischief...... what I am saying is that there would be others to hold them accountable.  Additionally, If they are truly anointed they know that if they do this they forfeit their everlasting life because they have disrespected the ransom of jesus. Jehovah will hold them accountable.


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The lack of spirituality here is very sad.

JTR Jr talks about money. Arauna talks about adultery. 

Whereas the Bible talks about spiritual matters. 

 Matthew 24 v 48 - 49  48  “But if ever that evil slave says in his heart, ‘My master is delaying,’ 49  and he starts to beat his fellow slaves ... 

This isn't talking about physically beating someone, this is about one part of the slave class spiritually bullying or putting down their Fellow Slaves. 

And as I mentioned :- @TrueTomHarley  Still says that no one can disfellowship the GB.

So this 'evil slave' can spiritually bully their fellow slaves, and no HUMAN in the CCJW or W/t can stop them. The clue lies in the word HUMAN. 

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1 hour ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

who on this Earth has the ability to hold them to account?


55 minutes ago, Arauna said:

So these hypothetical cases are really going into the realm of the ludicrous.

Old Israel have had longer history than 1st Congregation and WTJWorg together. All in all, it is notable to see how their God left to Israel people, how they would like to handle inside problems. About politics, about economy, about religious doctrines. God showed patient and wait to see, according to Bible. And when they failed to make changes, He made them to make changes. From some inside moves or from outside forces (other nations). 

Well, if JW's members stay inactive, despite facts how they see wrongs of own leaders, someone else will do the job.

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8 hours ago, Anna said:

Sure, and why not? Luke 21:28

I like the scripture, thank you. 

It wasn't so much the keep calm bit, but the 'final part of the final last days, that I found funny.

Do you really think we will all be sat at our computers in our warm and comfortable homes in the 'Final part of the Final Last Days' ? And do you think the broadcasts will still be happening ? 

Of course God's true servants, Slaves and Domestics, should 'stand tall' in a spiritual sense, but I don't think they will be quite as comfortable as a lot of them are now. Lets be realistic, things are going to get rough and very wicked.


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