Jump to content
The World News Media

Who Really is the Faithful and Discreet Slave? And why did Jesus mention "everyone" in the parable?


JW Insider

Recommended Posts

  • Member
On 12/26/2016 at 10:47 PM, JW Insider said:

I do not consider the Governing Body to be governors of our faith. According to Paul, all of us need to take on the responsibility as guardians of doctrine (teachings).

Well no, neither do I for the same reasons as you. It is each person's responsibility. I quote that statement by Br. Jackson: “......the Governing Body, which is, may I state, a group, a spiritual group of men who are the guardians of our doctrine, and as guardians of the doctrine, look at things that need to be decided based on our doctrines, which are based on the constitution of the Bible”.

What I understand from from that statement is that the GB's concern is that when Bible truths are disseminated, or when decisions are made by them that these remain faithful to what the scriptures intended, and not that they are taking away the responsibility for this from others. This is confirmed by another statement that Br. Jackson made regarding others, quote:

“Now, the Governing Body realises that if we were to give some direction that is not in harmony with God's word, all of Jehovah's Witnesses worldwide who have the Bible would notice that and they would see that it was wrong direction.  So we have responsibilities as guardians to make sure that everything is scripturally acceptable”.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Views 9.3k
  • Replies 49
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

The small problem with this statement is easy to detect, and I'm sure you saw it, too. It appears to claim that if "some" direction was given that was not in harmony with God's word, then "all of

Usually when we refer to the "faithful and discreet slave" parable, we are really referring to the parable of 'the faithful and the unfaithful slave' found in Matthew 24:45-51. In fact, the parable of

Something very interesting about the parable is the reference to the term "everyone," here. It's obvious that Jesus often used illustrations (parables, allegories, and analogies) in which a single per

Posted Images

  • Member
1 hour ago, Anna said:

“Now, the Governing Body realises that if we were to give some direction that is not in harmony with God's word, all of Jehovah's Witnesses worldwide who have the Bible would notice that and they would see that it was wrong direction.  So we have responsibilities as guardians to make sure that everything is scripturally acceptable”

The small problem with this statement is easy to detect, and I'm sure you saw it, too.

It appears to claim that if "some" direction was given that was not in harmony with God's word, then "all of Jehovah's Witnesses" would notice. This has never, ever been true! Every time "some" change is made to a doctrine (and there have been literally hundreds of such changes) then the GB made this change because it was important to be in more complete harmony with God's word. In other words, if the change was made for the new teaching to be in harmony with God's word, then the previous teaching was not in complete harmony with God's word.

Yet, there has never been a case where more than a very few Jehovah's Witnesses spoke up, often none at all, as far as anyone knew. Back in the days when we were more attuned to anxiously await the latest "new light" from the yearly convention, the comments were always about how pleasantly surprised everyone was. No Witnesses are ever asked by the Governing Body what they think of a new doctrine and almost no Witnesses would dare say anything except that they agree completely, and that it was surely "food at the proper time." This is true, even though many of those items of "new truth" that we learned at all the assemblies in my formative years have been nearly scrapped, from "Your Will Be Done on Earth" [King of North/South, antimatter, fear of Sputnik] "Let Your Name Be Sanctified" [type-antitype Elijah as "Rutherford" and Elisha as "Knorr"] to "Babylon the Great Has Fallen" [Revelation "commentary" where almost half the paragraphs are already out of date].

I remember some of the adjustments, and wrong ideas over the years have been explained as "the right thing at the wrong time" or even once as "the wrong thing at the right time." [e.g., "superior authorities" of Romans 13]. Yet, it is always "food at the proper time" as far as perhaps 99% of us are concerned. 

But that's not the biggest problem with the claim. If it were true that even "some" wrong direction were easily detected by "all" then there is no need for a special "slave class" to present doctrines. If Brother Jackson is right, then it would be better to start from scratch and vote on each doctrine democratically.

This is not a complaint about the spiritual food we receive, and it's true that the specific menu of doctrines we enjoy is fulfilling and satisfies our spiritual needs. Over the years, however, much of it has proven to have been served at the wrong time, or it was the wrong thing. Some has even been toxic and resulted in spiritual death and loss of spiritual health for many. And we now have evidence that some of it has been kept toxic on purpose for many years because the servers didn't want to admit that it was bad food, even though the GB knew it was. (For example: The directions given on handing pedophilia cases for many years, corporal punishment of children, how a sister should respond to a physically abusive husband, chronological end-times speculation.)

I think most of these things have been corrected, or are in the process of further correction. But I don't blame the bad food on the "faithful and discreet slave" because I don't believe that this parable was a prophecy in the first place. For the most part the "spiritual food" served is wonderful. Where it is wrong it is usually corrected with something that is obviously better. But where someone digs in their heels and holds to false doctrine because of a tradition or inability to admit that it might have been wrong, this is not about an appointed "slave" proving themselves to be an "evil" slave, it's just the common human tendency of people who are looked up to as leaders to become like the Pharisees, and see themselves as more important or righteous. Teachers receive heavier judgment.

That's really the reason for the parable, anyway, as far as I can tell. It's so that a person who takes on the leadership position of Brother Jackson, for example, doesn't forget that he should be in subjection to you, Anna, and that he should be willing to give a literal drink of water to you or visit you when you are physically sick, or give you some actual physical food to eat if you are hungry.  And the parable was also meant to remind you, Anna, not to forget that you should be in subjection to Brother Jackson, and not be quick to judge him harshly even if you see that he has taken a false step. We should try to build each other up with patience and discretion and faithfulness, picking each other up as best we can, and trying to understand each others' mental, emotional, physical and spiritual needs so that we can be an encouragement to each other. As the "day" continues to draw near, we want to show love toward one another, so that all of us continue awaiting Jesus "parousia" without unnecessary distraction from the world and its desires. The point of the parable is that if the Master is away it's easy to lose faith, but by building our congregations up into a family of brothers and sisters who look out for each other with love, we will not be tempted to lose faith in the promise, which can result in disobendience to the Master, and being overly concerned about who is right and who isn't, or finding opportunities to "lord it over" our fellow servants.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Member
2 hours ago, Anna said:

I would say, those who you call an "evil Save" seem to be doing a pretty good job of providing spiritual food

And all of that “spiritual food” is found accurate?  Or is it “present truth”, a term I read that an older JW used for today’s teachings?

 “But I am afraid that as the serpent deceived Eve by his cunning, your thoughts will be led astray from a sincere and pure devotion to Christ. For if someone comes and proclaims another Jesus than the one we proclaimed, or if you receive a different spirit from the one you received, or if you accept a different gospel from the one you accepted, you put up with it readily enough.” 2 Cor 11:3,4

Your comments are in green.

The WT - Announcing Jehovah's Kingdom, is at no. 1 for the most widely distributed magazine in the world, the Awake is at no. 2, and JW.org is at no.1 for the most translated website in the world.

“The coming of the lawless one is by the activity of Satan with all power and false signs and wonders,  and with all wicked deception for those who are perishing, because they refused to love the truth and so be saved.” 2 Thess 2:9

And they worshiped the dragon, for he had given his authority to the beast (an “image”), and they worshiped the beast, saying, “Who is like the beast, and who can fight against it?” Rev 13:4

And just in case you have some comments about Satan being in charge of that, then be aware that the Bible is at no.1 for the most widely distributed book in the world.

It is quite wonderful.  It is God’s book after all.  Should we expect anything less?

Kind of cool, the Bible at no.1, a magazine announcing God's Kingdom at no. 1, and a website announcing God's Kingdom in most languages at no.1.

By his cunning he shall make DECEIT prosper under his hand, and in his own mind he shall become great. Without warning he shall destroy many. And he shall even rise up against the Prince of princes, and he shall be broken—but by no human hand.  Dan 8:25

I will put enmity between you and the woman,
    and between your offspring and her offspring;
he shall bruise your head,
    and you shall bruise his heel.”  Gen 3:15

For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the cosmic powers over this present darkness, against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly places.”  Eph 6:12

“Beware lest anyone cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the basic principles of the world, and not according to Christ”.  Col 2:8

“For though we walk in the flesh, we are not waging war according to the flesh For the weapons of our warfare are not of the flesh but have divine power to destroy strongholds.  We destroy arguments and every lofty opinion raised against the knowledge of God, and take every thought captive to obey Christ  2 Cor 10:3-5

“Now I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse. And He who sat on him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and makes war.” Rev 19:11

“And the armies in heaven, clothed in fine linen, white and clean, followed Him on white horses.” Rev 19:14

“And I saw the beast, the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against Him who sat on the horse and against His army.  Then the beast was captured, and with him the false prophet who worked signs in his presence, by which he deceived those who received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image. “  Rev 19:19,20

 “Now when He was asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, He answered them and said, “The kingdom of God does not come with observation”  Luke 17:20

“Remember therefore how you have received and heard; hold fast and repent. Therefore if you will not watch, I will come upon you as a thiefand you will not know what hour I will come upon you.”  Rev 3:3

As for people leaving the organization and then choosing the right road is kind of complicated don't you think?

Complicated?  No.  How can turning one’s heart completely to God and Christ be complicated unless we make it so?  It can be difficult denying oneself and following Christ, but this is where our faith is tested. 

 “So Jesus answered and said, “Assuredly, I say to you, there is no one who has left house or brothers or sisters or father or mother or wife or children or lands, for My sake and the gospel’s, who shall not receive a hundredfold now in this time—houses and brothers and sisters and mothers and children and lands, with persecutionsand in the age to come, eternal life.” Mark 10:29,30

And you will be hated by all for My name’s sake. But he who endures to the end shall be saved.  Mark 13:13

 “Then Jesus looked around and said to His disciples, “How hard it is for those who have riches to enter the kingdom of God!” 24 And the disciples were astonished at His words. But Jesus answered again and said to them, “Children, how hard it is for those who trust in riches[d] to enter the kingdom of God! 25 It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.”

26 And they were greatly astonished, saying among themselves, “Who then can be saved?”

27 But Jesus looked at them and said, “With men it is impossible, but not with God; for with God all things are possible.  Mark 10:23-27

 “Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it. Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it.”  Matt 7:13,14

I would have though that people leaving Babylon the Great would be sufficient.

There are two covenant promises, the promise of life in God’s Kingdom and death through Babylon the Great. 

Because you have said, “We have made a covenant with death, And with Sheol we are in agreement. When the overflowing scourge passes through, It will not come to us, For we have made lies our refuge, And under falsehood we have hidden ourselves.”

There is only truth in Christ, or lies in Satan.  Each anointed one will teach one or the other; thus, by their fruits you will know them.

Should we go into the false promises of the Watchtower over the years?  Or the present teachings of “this generation”, based on 1914 (Dan 7:25; 2 Thess 2:2), or the pedophile issue, or disfellowshipping and shunning, or demanded obedience to men?

Christ is Truth, not falsehood, not darkness in ANY amount – not even a little. Matt 5:14   Anointed ones can leave their covenant with Christ through their own sinful, prideful lusts.

Or are there multiple evil slaves?

These teachings of Christ are not just for our time, but from the time Jesus was resurrected.  A house steward over the anointed ones most likely existed when needed; and possibly there were “evil slaves” as well as faithful slaves. Also, each anointed slave of Christ must prove to be “faithful and discreet” as well as stewards of God’s word.  Matt 25:21; 1 Cor 4:1

 “Little children, it is the last hour; and as you have heard that the Antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come, by which we know that it is the last hour.  They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us. 1 John 2:18,19

“This is the message which we have heard from Him and declare to you, that God is light and in Him is no darkness at all.  If we say that we have fellowship with Him, and walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth.  But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin.” 1 John 1:5-7

He who says he is in the light, AND HATES HIS BROTHER, is in darkness until now. 1 John 2:9

This particular fulfilment of the evil slave pairs with the identity of the fourth beast of Daniel that the “remaining ones of the woman’s seed” must face. Dan 7:7,8,21,23,25; 8:9-12, 23-25; 11:21-14; 31-45      Rev 17:11,12; 13:1,2,4

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Member
1 hour ago, JW Insider said:

“Now, the Governing Body realises that if we were to give some direction that is not in harmony with God's word, all of Jehovah's Witnesses worldwide who have the Bible would notice that and they would see that it was wrong direction.  So we have responsibilities as guardians to make sure that everything is scripturally acceptable”

I will tell you how I understand it. In context, it seems that what was meant by "direction" was not necessarily of doctrinal nature, although I must admit it could be viewed that way. But Br. Jackson was talking about directions given to the branch office in Australia, regarding matters of Child abuse. He was asked whether branch offices were able to act autonomously, to which the reply was no. It seems he was implying that if some direction was un-scriptural, it would be noticed, but not necessarily voiced. 

1 hour ago, JW Insider said:

That's really the reason for the parable, anyway, as far as I can tell. It's so that a person who takes on the leadership position of Brother Jackson, for example, doesn't forget that he should be in subjection to you, Anna, and that he should be willing to give a literal drink of water to you or visit you when you are physically sick, or give you some actual physical food to eat if you are hungry.  And the parable was also meant to remind you, Anna, not to forget that you should be in subjection to Brother Jackson, and not be quick to judge him harshly even if you see that he has taken a false step.

I believe this too, and I trust the GB does as well, as they view themselves as the domestics too.

Going back to your original subject "who really is the faithful and discreet slave", is it all of us, feeding each other? It is to a degree, but at the outset, how would we have known what, when and how to feed? Would we all do this as we saw fit? According to our own personal interpretation or opinion? The present day "Bible Students" do this. They believe it is their "freedom in Christ" that allows for differing views on doctrinal matters. But where is the truth? Where is order? Aren't truth and order important to Jehovah? Wouldn't we all just end up like Christendom, and each of us join the denomination that most appealed to us? What about the preaching? In my mind, it is nothing short of a miracle that we function the way we do, all on voluntary work, headed by a bunch of imperfect men in Warwick. I just posted earlier in a reply to Witness, that our Magazines rank no.1 and 2 in the world in distribution, and that our website ranks no. 1 as the most translated website, by far. Is this a coincidence? Of course Witness has a different answer to that, which was to be expected, but really, looking at it objectively, shouldn't one expect that God's word, and publications and websites directing people to God's word and advertising God's Kingdom would be the most widely distributed and translated in the world? So we, inclusive of the GB, must be doing something right.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Member
19 hours ago, JW Insider said:

Yes. We ARE doing something right, and this results in Jehovah's blessing on the kind of work we do.

Wt 16/3 pp. 18-23:  Jesus has appointed elders to take the lead in the congregation, and he wants us to respect them and follow the direction they give us.His holy spirit can help us to obey any direction that the elders give us.

Let me ask you, if Jesus, as our High Priest,has formulated his own priesthood of anointed ones to teach in the same manner as the early priesthood was guided to do, why would Jesus appoint those other than his own priests to lead in the congregation?  Mal 2:7; 1 Pet 2:5,9

Obviously the organization is not doing things right.  

By others transgressing against God's Temple, this is considered "foreigners" trampling his temple.  Ezek 44:7; Rom 2:29

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Member
On 12/28/2016 at 3:33 PM, Anna said:

The WT - Announcing Jehovah's Kingdom, is at no. 1 for the most widely distributed magazine in the world, the Awake is at no. 2, and JW.org is at no.1 for the most translated website in the world.

"When you are persecuted in one place, flee to another. Truly I tell you, you will not finish going through the towns of Israel before the Son of Man comes."  Matt 10:23

"Then I heard the number of those who were sealed: 144,000 from all the tribes of Israel."  Rev 7:4

Wt 14 11/115 pp. 23-27  "On that day, by means of his spirit, Jehovah brought forth a new nation--spiritual Israel, "the Israel of God".

Wt 16 1 pp. 20-26  The "Jew" represents those whom God as anointed by holy spirit

If you put these together, Anna, you will see that the "good news" which takes place under all the signs of the end that Jesus gave us, "preached in all the inhabited earth", is to the scattered remnant of God's Chosen ones - within the Watchtower congregations.   Please consider the meaning of "world"/"earth" in Matt 24:14:

"Good News" - http://4womaninthewilderness.blogspot.com/2012/10/a-question-thank-you-for-all-fine.html

"Good News--What is it?  Who is it for?  1914 ("Earth")  http://4womaninthewilderness.blogspot.com/2014/06/the-good-news-part-one.html

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Member
1 hour ago, AllenSmith said:

 

How cute it is when opposers offer wordplay to define an argument. As silly as it is, it does bring a smile to ones face.

 

 

Did you read the articles?

Did you look up the Greek meaning of oikouménē ?  Or are you using “worldy” dictionaries?

This is God’s home we must consider – His dwelling place – His spiritual abode, and those who comprise it – the target of the last “good news” to be preached, the call for repentance.

Heb.12:22,23Eph.2:6; Rev 12:12

Eph.2:19,221Cor.3:9Phil.3:20Rev.21:3,22,23

Where are God’s people being called from in Rev 18:4-8? 

“God will decide who is acceptable to carry his Holy Spirit.”

Yes, not man – not an elder body.  Each anointed one who has received God’s Holy Spirit, knows it.  It is THEY who must choose their Master – men, or Christ.

“In cases as this, it would be appropriate to “choose for yourself” who carries the true word of God and is in Harmony with God’s inspired words, The Bible. 1 John 4:1 Matthew 24:4”

Exactly!

Read again,

"When you are persecuted in one place, flee to another. Truly I tell you, you will not finish going through the towns of Israel before the Son of Man comes."  Matt 10:23

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Member
1 hour ago, Witness said:

Wt 16 1 pp. 20-26  The "Jew" represents those whom God as anointed by holy spirit

And yet, there will be those of a "mixed vast company", (as there were with natural Israel), who will follow Christ's brothers, but who themselves are not spiritual Jews. Zechariah 8:20-23 " “This is what Jehovah of armies says, ‘It will yet come to pass that peoples and the inhabitants of many cities will come; and the inhabitants of one city will go to those of another and say: “Let us earnestly go to beg for the favor of Jehovah and to seek Jehovah of armies. I am also going." And many peoples and mighty nations will come to seek Jehovah of armies in Jerusalem and to beg for the favor of Jehovah.’  “This is what Jehovah of armies says, ‘In those days ten men out of all the languages of the nations will take hold, yes, they will take firm hold of the robe of a Jew, saying: “We want to go with you, for we have heard that God is with you people.”’”

Isaiah 2:2-4 " In the final part of the days,The mountain of the house of Jehovah Will become firmly established above the top of the mountains, And it will be raised up above the hills, And to it all the nations will stream.And many peoples will go and say: “Come, let us go up to the mountain of Jehovah, To the house of the God of Jacob. He will instruct us about his ways, And we will walk in his paths." For law will go out of Zion, And the word of Jehovah out of Jerusalem.He will render judgment among the nations And set matters straight respecting many peoples. They will beat their swords into plowshares And their spears into pruning shears. Nation will not lift up sword against nation, Nor will they learn war anymore".

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Member
On 12/29/2016 at 3:21 PM, AllenSmith said:

There is NO evidence, these men commissioned by God have undermined the “form they express the message of Jesus” just as the Apostles obeyed the calling of God to continue Jesus work.

The truest thing you've said on here Allen

On 12/29/2016 at 3:21 PM, AllenSmith said:

This forum and its intellectual emergence, does just that. It indoctrinates the possibilities, the Governing Body has erred,

The Governing Body themselves have said they have erred at times.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Member
1 hour ago, Anna said:

And yet, there will be those of a "mixed vast company", (as there were with natural Israel), who will follow Christ's brothers, but who themselves are not spiritual Jews. Zechariah 8:20-23 " “This is what Jehovah of armies says, ‘It will yet come to pass that peoples and the inhabitants of many cities will come; and the inhabitants of one city will go to those of another and say: “Let us earnestly go to beg for the favor of Jehovah and to seek Jehovah of armies. I am also going." And many peoples and mighty nations will come to seek Jehovah of armies in Jerusalem and to beg for the favor of Jehovah.’  “This is what Jehovah of armies says, ‘In those days ten men out of all the languages of the nations will take hold, yes, they will take firm hold of the robe of a Jew, saying: “We want to go with you, for we have heard that God is with you people.”’”

Isaiah 2:2-4 " In the final part of the days,The mountain of the house of Jehovah Will become firmly established above the top of the mountains, And it will be raised up above the hills, And to it all the nations will stream.And many peoples will go and say: “Come, let us go up to the mountain of Jehovah, To the house of the God of Jacob. He will instruct us about his ways, And we will walk in his paths." For law will go out of Zion, And the word of Jehovah out of Jerusalem.He will render judgment among the nations And set matters straight respecting many peoples. They will beat their swords into plowshares And their spears into pruning shears. Nation will not lift up sword against nation, Nor will they learn war anymore".

Yes, Anna.  This is so true.  The "Marriage Feast" is open to all.  

"The Marriage Feast - When?"   http://4womaninthewilderness.blogspot.com/2013/09/there-are-still-many-who-equate-timing.html

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Member
1 hour ago, AllenSmith said:

And at what point do you consider “Ecumene” differs by definition “ALL” the “inhabited world” to mean something other than “earth” or “World”. You can even include “All Nations” here.

Good point, Allen.

The inclusion of "all nations" takes away any ambiguity of the Greek meaning. It's true that one could try to make a larger point out of the less likely and rarely used definition(s) based on the fact that many words that start out with "oik..." (or "ec..." in English transliteration) can refer to dwellings and households. But this is the least likely meaning in any context, and in this case we even have the context to clarify. The word "all" goes with it, and it's tied to "all nations."

What "Witness" is depending on here is closer to the the definition of related words, such as the one used in Titus 2:5 oikourgos  - worker at home. Or Matthew 10:36 oikiakos - household. Or oikos - house, dwelling.

But the use of the same word is clarified perfectly in Romans 10:18 for a first century application prior to the judgment on the Jewish system in 70, and it works again in a larger sense for the judgment on the whole world. Note how Romans 10:18 echoes  the poetic Hebrew parallelism in Greek to make "world" the equivalent of the "earth" here:

Romans 10:18  ἀλλὰ λέγω μὴ οὐκ ἤκουσαν μενοῦνγε Εἰς πᾶσαν τὴν γῆν [earth, planet] ἐξῆλθεν φθόγγος αὐτῶν καὶ εἰς τὰ πέρατα τῆς οἰκουμένης [world, earth] τὰ ῥήματα αὐτῶν

(Romans 10:18, NWT) But I ask, They did not fail to hear, did they? Why, in fact, “into all the earth their sound went out, and to the ends of the inhabited earth their message.”

(Romans 10:18, KJV): But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Member
On 12/28/2016 at 11:19 PM, Anna said:

So we, inclusive of the GB, must be doing something right.

Yes. We ARE doing something right, and this results in Jehovah's blessing on the kind of work we do. But it's not, in my opinion, because the GB, from 1919 on, were prophesied in Mathew 24:45, but because these brothers are doing their best with a strong desire to do the right thing.

On 12/30/2016 at 11:32 AM, Witness said:

If you put these together, Anna, you will see that the "good news" which takes place under all the signs of the end that Jesus gave us, "preached in all the inhabited earth", is to the scattered remnant of God's Chosen ones - within the Watchtower congregations.   Please consider the meaning of "world"/"earth" in Matt 24:14:

Witness, I am trying to understand what you have said here. I have two major problems understanding it.

One problem is spelled out in a little bit more detail from the "Pearl" blog that apparently coincides with several things you are saying here:

Regarding Matt.24:14; If we go back to the grass roots Greek of the translation of "world" and "nations", we see that both these translated words, are assumptions.
The Greek only and simply says, that the preaching will be done in the "home",
and that all those who are *a group occupying together the same home (definition of "ethnos"...translated "nations"), will be the target of that message.
Jesus made clear by his direct statement, who his brothers would be preaching to when he arrived (Matt.10:23). That literally reads "the circuit of Israel". That "circuit" was a first century mail route, and is exactly depicted by the seven congregations listed in Revelation. This ancient mail route went to those cities in that order. It was the "circuit of Israel". 
We know that this is symbolic, for the "Israel of God" (Rom.9:6; Gal.6:16; 3:29). 
God's last warning, is to the same group (1Pet.2:9-10; Rev.18:4; 1Cor.6:15; Rev.17:2; 2:22)
People of all nations are included (Rev.5:9,10).

Some of this reasoning contradicts not only Romans 10:18 which I quoted in my previous post to Allen, but also requires further redefinition to avoid contradictions with the "world" Satan dwells in. I'm not trying to get into all the reasons I disagree, but I'm sure you already understand that there are other ways to read this, and most persons find those other reasons more likely. It's not that I don't understand the appeal of the argument you are making, as it looks like a simpler solution to dichotomy of the references to both the first century judgment and the final judgment. But there are new problems with your solution, and of course, I admit that there are some problems remaining with the Watchtower's solution, too. As with the Watchtower, there is no consistent meaning attached to Jew and Gentile in a spiritual sense, and we sometimes use contexts from the Hebrew Scriptures to mean the spiritual solution when the first century context in the Greek Scriptures could have referred to a natural Jew and a natural Greek. These Jewish/Gentile problems even occur between Romans and Revelation, for example. I'd like to pick up on these questions under a different topic, but the main reason I quoted this section of the blog here is this:

Do you agree completely with the reasoning in the portion of the blog I quoted above. Is that why you are making the same argument to Anna about the "circuit" of the cities of Israel (and/or Asia Minor if you include the 7 congregations of Revelation)?

My other question is about this part of your quote to Anna: the "good news" which takes place under all the signs of the end that Jesus gave us, "preached in all the inhabited earth", is to the scattered remnant of God's Chosen ones - within the Watchtower congregations.

Why do you believe that the preaching of the "good news" is specifically to the scattered remnant of God's Chosen ones - within the Watchtower congregations? What makes the Watchtower so special in your view?

One more question while I think of it. Do you understand the meaning of "world" as God's "inhabited or occupied place/dwelling" to mean something like the opposite of the "wilderness" in Revelation 12?

Link to comment
Share on other sites





  • Recently Browsing

    • No registered users viewing this page.
  • Popular Contributors

  • Topics

  • Posts

    • Try not to manipulate my words with your usual tactics. I said: "I’m sure you know by now that there is absolutely nothing in the diary indicating the year 588." I said this in direct response to your claim that the events on the tablet indicated 588. You said that the events on the tablet indicated 588. You said: "You can reference VAT 4956." . . .  "Why is this so significant? Pay extremely close attention to the language inscribed on this tablet" . . . "Year 37 of Nebukadnezzar, King of Babylon. Month I," . .  "Additional reports in this Diary include . . . Borsippa, . . . .This indicates that the conflict in that region in 588 . . . " No, you didn't actually say that. Besides I have no argument about 587. I only point out that ALL the astronomical evidence from the entire period shows that this was Nebuchadnezzar's 18th year. You have never made an argument (either valid or invalid) that "my argument about 587 can also be interpreted as 588."  Not that it matters in the least, but Borsippa is NOT way further in distance from Jerusalem. It's about 10 miles CLOSER "as the crow flies" and nearly the same distance using the usual travel routes of the time. Perhaps that's why no one mentioned it before. However, even here, I have already posted the entire contents of the tablet, including the reference to Borsippa. Not that it matters.  I certainly hope so!
    • That's completely false. You invariably attempt to weasel your way out of your false statements by claiming that someone has distorted your words. You make false claims about them and claim that they are the ones in the wrong. Then you bluster with some barely-related material hoping it impresses someone (or yourself) into thinking you are some kind of expert or authority. That barely-related material you make use of invariably says nearly the opposite of what you had claimed, which you should have known had you just read the context, or understood what you were reading.  I'll get to the specifics at a later time on this particular point, but it is nearly the same as with almost all these matters. I have learned to expect you to NEVER admit an error, no matter how much evidence is shown. I don't expect you to admit your error on these recent points, but your "style" provides a revealing display of the lengths people will go to, in order to support a pseudo-chronology.   
    • In response to your email, it is important to note that the Watchtower chronology begins at 4026, adhering closely to the numerical indications in scripture. The significant distinction lies in the fact that not everyone begins at 4026; some might commence their chronology at 4004, for instance. Consequently, this creates a noticeable gap between those who employ different starting points for their chronologies. Consider that the new Bible Students have rejected Russell's starting point and instead adjusted it to align with Modern Israel. They have suggested a year around 3954, or something like that, I can't remember, but it seems unfounded. Some of their sects started Criticizing Russell about this matter, and it appears unjustified, as their own knowledge may be limited. Following the Watchtower's guidance is straightforward: align events with their corresponding numerical values. It is important to remember that the Watchtower does not view its chronology as an absolute, unlike secular chronology which seeks to impose its perspective. According to the Watchtower, the pivotal date for the divided kingdom is 997. Look it up in our archives and publications.  The Watchtower's chronology will always diverge from conventional chronology due to its distinctive starting point. The organization holds steadfast to the numbers in the Bible, guided by faith in scripture rather than human interpretations. Despite persistent challenges, the unwavering stance of the Watchtower remains unchanged, as it is grounded in divine guidance, not the opinions of anonymous and faithless individuals.
    • Consider this: if we assume that the tablet dated back to 568 refers to Nebuchadnezzar, and that the king issued an order for Borsippa, a city 12-15 miles from Babylon, then it suggests that King Nebuchadnezzar might have been in his palace giving that order, since logically it would have taken weeks or a month or so for a runner to dispatch such an order from Judah that was for Borsippa in 588/587, as historically suggested, since we can use the same date 588/587 for that event.
    • It appears that he is struggling to accept the reality that Borsippa is approximately 15 miles away from Babylon, and depending on who you ask for directions, it is about 617 miles from Jerusalem. Therefore, if VAT 4956 mentions the death of an individual by the order of a king, in Borsippa and disease then we can reasonably assume it was Nebuchadnezzar based on the 37th year language in that secular evidence rather than the Bible, it suggests that the conflicts in the region were more extensive. This clearly demonstrates that no single conflict can be definitively determined or pinpointed solely by relying on that tablet designated to the year 568, regardless of how convincing it may appear. Making an absolute claim would be dishonest if the information contradicts itself. The same can be said if someone uses the date designation of 587/586 or 588/587. Only people who are desperate would argue that.
  • Members

    No members to show

  • Recent Status Updates

  • Forum Statistics

    • Total Topics
      65.4k
    • Total Posts
      159.3k
  • Member Statistics

    • Total Members
      17,679
    • Most Online
      1,592

    Newest Member
    Techredirector
    Joined
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

Terms of Service Confirmation Terms of Use Privacy Policy Guidelines We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.