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"THERE'S MORE MONEY GOING OUT, THAN COMING IN"...Except for Stephen Lett


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On 3/23/2020 at 5:28 PM, Srecko Sostar said:

subordinate = having less power or a lower position than someone else in

Did you not read that we all (men and women) should willingly subject ourselves to each other  and think more of others than ourselves?  Be self-sacrificing....

It is not about hierarchy at all but about a humble spirit.  All of us must must learn this - some take longer than others.

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I don't believe the maker of the video was showing jealousy; but instead, he was showing your leader  up as a hypocrite.  As this video also shows, about the vow of poverty that all in Bethel are unde

I can't imagine even one exjw being jealous of Stephen Lett.  It's not about jealously.  It's about hypocrisy, which is the opposite of righteousness.  

He did ... he owns a huge piece of wooded property where the road that serves Warwick HQ Tees into the main State road .... PERFECT for motels, gas stations, or a strip mall.  This can be researched t

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33 minutes ago, Arauna said:

Did you not read that we all (men and women) should willingly subject ourselves to each other

Yes, i  am aware of such idea in some texts. But i am sure how you are aware that, so called, theocratic order, puts female human in lower position (compared with male) based only because of sex belonging. 

Male JW members are in higher ranking position from start (by born), based only on sex attribute. If some female shows better spiritual and intellectual qualities than some JW male member (brother, MS or elder etc), according to rules you and congregation advocates, she have (it is expected for her) to be submissive, despite the fact that JWorg put published explanation:  

Did God create a woman so that she would be subordinate to a man?  In short, it is not.

Well, when woman show disagreement or is disobedient to male rules, doctrines and decisions made inside family or congregation, that will be viewed as Rebellion Against God's Order, and JWorg is ready to dfd her if she is not willing to change attitude.

God created female (according to Bible text and JWorg explanation above) in atmosphere and under circumstances that shows us how women's "aspiration" to be Equal to men is so Natural and Positive and Needed. I can't recall some verse where Jesus speaking in favor of male and against women in this issue.

 

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3 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

she have (it is expected for her) to be submissive, despite the fact that JWorg put published explanation:  

If she is deeply spiritual she would always be submissive and not care about status or ranking.  When a brother takes his role too seriously and puts her in her place (i saw a self-absorbed brother chastise a sister unnecessarily recently) she would shrug it off and go on asif nothing happened.  He will grow in maturity eventually.  I supported her and told her I liked what she said.  Hopefully, he will stop killing Jehovah's spirit ....because that is what he did with his action.... 

I have disagreed with brothers...... but I guess it is how one does it.  I pace myself because my advancement is visible to all...... but I do not want it to lead to too much attention..... that would be morally wrong. I want only more love and understanding for all. I have a very strong and friendly personality but it can sometimes be misunderstood.     I understand what you are saying..... but wisdom has taught  me to step back - not forward. ...... .. 

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It is my considered opinion that NO ONE is equal to anyone else, any more than those who are good with whatever it is they DO, are equal to those who are NOT good at whatever it is that they do.

It is skills applied, whatever talent you have or do not have naturally, that makes us equal (sometimes).

I struggled for many years to become a skilled photographer in High School, and was one of several  High School Yearbook Photographer for three years, and turned out some pretty crappy work, sometimes, and wasted a LOT of film and photo paper and chemicals.  

But I knew at my very best, I could not compete with Tom Thurston, the previous Yearbook Photographer, as he had talent, far superior equipment, money and background.

We were NOT equal ...... ever.

He was always better than me, in EVERY way.

... as a photographer, and  in many other ways as well.

.... but then again .... I heard he was killed in Vietnam.

... I have the edge.

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1 hour ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

It is my considered opinion that NO ONE is equal to anyone else

Perhaps some "clarification" :))), would be good to use;

how we are "equal" in our needs and what we may expect from other in interaction with people, and how people have to treat other individuals with respect and as "equal" to them, or even more than "equal" because Bible say "value others above yourselves". According to this words, we are not "equal" in some specific way, but rather, person on one side need to think about person on other side, as more important than himself. If you are of more value or importance than me, we are not "equal". 

Such understanding or interpretation of verse in Philippians have power to "destroy" artificial hierarchy inside system. But only if both side implement this idea or "principle" from this Bible verse in life. WTJWorg, in this moment (or perhaps will never be), is not ready to work under such principle. And as we see, individuals are not, in general, ready to act according to this "principle" too.

Because, if they (WTJWorg) would be ready for that, woman role in Congregation and in JW world at all, would be raised on different, next level.  

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20 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

that NO ONE is equal to anyone else, any more than

In my opinion we are all equal before God....... no matter how talented you are......talent, money, influence, position all mean something in a materialistic world..... but it is our true spirituality that matters.

 

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2 hours ago, Arauna said:

In my opinion we are all equal before God....... no matter how talented you are......talent, money, influence, position all mean something in a materialistic world..... but it is our true spirituality that matters.

 

Yes, apostle Paul as we remember, spoke of us, as one body with different body members. We would not like to lose any of them. Not any inner organ either. We need them all to feel well.

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I don't think there is a problem with not being equal.

If I ever get to know who the true remnant of the Anointed are, I will accept them as being above me. 

I certainly would not think that I am equal to the Apostles. I don't actually want to be equal to everyone else. In my opinion being humble means thinking of myself as a lesser one. 

As for Kos' idea of one body, I think that only refers to the Anointed ones. 

The Anointed are the one body of Christ, with Christ as the head. 

Jesus said "I have other sheep that are not of this fold". He of course meant the earthly class. So in my opinion they cannot be of the same 'body'.  Would seem strange to me to have part of the body in heaven and part of the body here on earth. 

So I do not consider myself equal to the Heavenly class. God has made personal contact with them, and He has not and will not with me :).. 

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5 hours ago, Arauna said:

In my opinion we are all equal before God....... no matter how talented you are......talent, money, influence, position all mean something in a materialistic world..... but it is our true spirituality that matters.

 

We living all under hierarchy system. We don't know nothing else, from our born. And we all have "problems", or we facing with issue of "equality" through all life, more or less. In all life fields. Including JWorg "spirituality" that can't escape from same problems.

General picture in JW World is how people who are in some "special" service inside Organization, are in such service because they are "deeply spiritual". That means, "spirituality" is proved by manifestations in material matters. Some working and living in Betel, some spending many hours in preaching, some are elders etc. Ordinary JW feels as some blessing or privilege to be in society with such people. Why we personally feels to be "privileged" if we are invited to help in Betel, to have lunch with them? Or to have them as guests in our home, to have conversation with some of such persons? If we are "equal", how people in such religious group can avoid to consider "friendship" with this specific individuals as "privilege"? Or in any other social group, on our work place etc?

As @James Thomas Rook Jr. well said we are not "equal", because we all are different and have different characteristic and are different in our "spirituality". Because of age, because of experience, because of our wishes etc.

Are we all "equal" before God? I want believe we are. But religious system, even "the best" one in WTJWorg :))), proves members are not equal before men, and by that also not before god who has "representatives" in JWorg priesthood class. Don't forget how "priesthood class" aka elders (many in special services of all kind too) are (have to be) the most "spiritual" individuals, not only in the Organization, but also in whole World. We all know that is not real to expect.   

1 hour ago, 4Jah2me said:

I don't actually want to be equal to everyone else.

This is very good thought. We have to be powerful and unique individuals who contributing to welfare for yourself and   all other people in place we are living, and by that to whole World. Thanks @4Jah2me  

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On 3/28/2020 at 8:21 PM, Srecko Sostar said:

well said we are not "equal", because we all are different and have different characteristic and are different in our "spirituality". Because of age, because of experience, because of our wishes etc.

Let me explain what I mean in a better way:

In this 'world' there is an inescapable hierarchy which God does not like at all. In this world, a person who can kick a ball well, sing well or write a silly repetition of notes with unintelligible words, can make millions of dollars because of an invention called TV.  A person with true talent can find his scientific inventions stolen by others of which Tesla is a good example. This world is an unfair and unjust place.

God hates this narcicism and bias. Also the worship of position/status and of individuals. This wicked system which gives the corrupt more power - yes it is the satanic world in which we now live which has a hierarchy and sometimes a class system with extreme 'legal' inequalities. The rich are favoured :- even in the USA, the so-called example of a constitutional republic or representative democracy to the world.

Under Jehovah,  humans and angel's are absolutely equal under the same moral standards and exact same moral law and Jehovah's judgment on all humans is unbias with no favoritism........  whatever talent you have - it does not give you leeway. If you disobey you will have the penalty of your tresspass.

All men are therefore equal under God. His law is exercised equally for all......... it is true equality. Jehovahs principles are applied / enforced consistently and equally, no matter if you are male, female, black, white, talented, or untalented, great crowd or anointed.  Do not be misled, what you sow, you reap. Disobedience to God can never being favour.

Many countries have equality for black peoples........ but these people do not have justice. Why ? Because the law is not equally enforced. (Human laws can even favour a certain class or be applied in draconian fashion - i.e.the new LGBTQ laws. If you forget a pronoun you can now lose your job or receive a prison sentence in some countries.)

I feel and believe I am totally ''equal" to others under the law of jehovah. What humans do is mostly unfair and unjust - that is a no-brainer. Even in the congregation sometimes you will find injustice due to imperfection - even if we know Jehovahs principles better than most people.

Under the ransom sacrifice we receive mercy due to our imperfection. If we do not accept the ransom it does not work for us. If we accept it, we can then become approved before jehovah. So individual choice to put ourselves under this arrangement and obedience to its principles can give us a chance for everlasting life.

 

All men are therefore equal under God. The angels and anointed may get different 'assignments' than us because of having heavenly bodies........but they are subject to the same laws. If we obey their instructions,  we are not obeying an angel or the slave....... we are obeying jehovah.

Yes, the congregation is not yet perfect and inconsistencies occur......but our cooperation indicates a willingness to obey.  Self-sacrifice was the example set by Jesus....... so sometimes we have to self-sacrifice our pride, ego ...... no matter how talented or brilliant we may think we are. 

In this world the egotistical, unscrupulous, grossly immoral and brazen humans flourish. Soon Jehovah's just and kind rule will be here. 

 

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2 hours ago, Arauna said:

In this 'world' there is an inescapable hierarchy which God does not like at all.

I see a little problem here. Is hierarchy, as concept, something what God want to exist? Second question is: what sort of hierarchy is good hierarchy? 

You gave examples about singers, sports, innovators and injustice. That what people doing is questionable, but it is not something what can be connected to issue of hierarchy in core, in fundamental meaning. Those examples is more about our standards, honesty, values about what is important and what contribute to better life. If people love stupid songs and want to listen them is more about trends or bad taste.   

2 hours ago, Arauna said:

the satanic world in which we now live which has a hierarchy and sometimes a class system with extreme 'legal' inequalities.

All secular governments, from the first one, have hierarchy system. And as you emphasized, all are unrighteous.  What makes me worried and sad is fact explained in Romans 13. Or Romans 13 are not "inspired word" but human word, and that is also possible. 

Because Romans 13 gives command to Christians to obey unrighteous system of secular governments. Not to ask questions about secular laws, not to put them on test, not to make efforts to change unrighteous laws, but to be in submission, to obey. JW church support this in full, with few exceptions when come to some doctrinal issues about army service, preaching, free speech and similar. In whole picture of "satanic world" and devil who is ruler of all hierarchical systems, according to Bible, it seems how God and devil support each other in this issue. God blame devil how he is cause of all evilness and injustice, but on other side God command Christians to obey devil's system in full or will be punished, and God will approve that punishing.  

Christian congregation also have hierarchical system. But is this system fully righteous? No, as you admitted too. But as in case of secular hierarchy, Christians are not called to change wrong things and laws in the world and inside congregation too. Because, WTJWorg elders said so. What Bible say about it ? What parts of Bible says you have license to change and fight against wrong things, and what parts of Bible say you have to be passive and wait?

2 hours ago, Arauna said:

All men are therefore equal under God.

In what scenario? Under what circumstances?

2 hours ago, Arauna said:

If we do not accept the ransom it does not work for us.

Is this about previous how all people are equal before God? Righteous and unrighteous are equal before God and Jesus? If Jesus gave life for all, who are that "all"? Does God's mercy and love is only for those who "accept"? What is JW's explanation how looks like this process of "accepting"? To be baptized as individual who recognizes WTJWorg as only saving organization?

 

In this moments of Corona pandemic, we see how some people are in hierarchical position to give advice, recommendations, commands how to act. Is this hierarchy wrong? I don't thing it is. It is good to have people who know more and can lead people through this. Some people understand this situation and are cooperative, some other not want to listen. Even GB listen to this secular authorities and canceled activities that making JW's as JW's. You are not going door to door ministry despite understanding how this kind of worship is God's command, and is almost unique for JW church as activity that makes JW's recognizable over all false religions. Public meetings also. It seems how this is "devil world" after all, and how Kingdom's invisible ruling is less visible this days.            

 

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