JW Insider

touché

I didn't watch the video. I might have but for some reason the sound wasn't very loud and I was in a noisy place. I just wanted to say that I thought that it was good that you expressed your opinion about it. Jack Ryan is not a JW and I assume he put it here for JWs to discuss. It might have been to try to embarrass JWs and/or it might have been to get JWs to think about policies that might be dangerous. I am getting a sense (after hearing about a recent rally of ex-JWs) that perhaps the suicide rate for ex-JWs really is much higher than the normal population, and it doesn't really surprise me that much. It also doesn't surprise me that the suicide rate for ex-soldiers is very high, but for different reasons.

I don't get the dates (or 4 digit numbers) that are written in small letters near the top of each label: 1935, 1331? (probably 1931), 1914, 1886.

My 1991 Flock book has notes in the margins expressing the instructor's warnings about the danger of media contact. And, of course, it contains exactly the same text handwritten on the blank page 143 that every elder at the time was asked to write in their own Flock book. I'll type out my handwritten notes as dictated during "school" with respect to what goes on an S77 or S79 form. I think it's easy to see from this (and comments from the instructor(s)) that protecting the reputation of the WTS is always considered very important. I see much value in many of the points that were added. I think most people would be able to read this idea of "protecting the Society" between the lines, even if they didn't hear the words and attitude of the instructor. Here are my handwritten notes: Avoid expressions on these forms: S77, S79 form 1) "anything alluding or naming one of the Society's attorneys" 2) any mention of the legal dept 3) any comments referring to the direction from the Society 4) any comments mentioning anyone other than the committee itself as a possible influence in the decision reached 5) any comment that might suggest to someone with a critical eye that the committee did not reach its decision on its own but, instead, somehow yielded to the influence of an outside party 6) any comments indicating that the elders mishandled the case, or committed any error in the investigation of the judicial committee process. Every time these forms are mentioned in the Flock book, the reference to the "blank" page 143 was to be written in the margin as a reminder. Still, as just one example, page 114 (or 115) in most "schooled" Flock books will also have a marginal handwritten note as stated by the instructor that says (with respect to reinstatements, especially): "It would be best to check with Branch Office before making the exception." I should add that the above information we were to write on page 143 comes after several chapters of very specific direction from the Society about various ins and outs of the judicial process, exactly how to judge the difference in "levels" of sexual immorality, porneia, and other types of wrongdoing, repentance, etc. And it comes immediately on the blank page just before the chapter called "Jehovah's People Theocratically Organized for His Name." The purpose of the chapter is to strengthen the idea that all this direction properly comes from the Society which is already somewhat contradictory in spirit to points 3, 4, and 5 above. The text of the chapter includes many of the following points which are basically correct, but they also add greatly to the sense that Jehovah's Name must be protected through protecting the name (or reputation) of the organization: Today, this involves a "stewardship from God," an arrangement administered through a "faithful and discreet slave." Local congregations throughout the earth are not organized according to democratic principles but are under God-governed, theocratic control. We must recognize and submit to this theocratic rulership. The anointed remnant has been entrusted with all of the Master's belongings. Overseers serve as earthly representatives under the direction of the steward class. Theocratic submission requires recognition of this orderly arrangement. God's laws are based on righteous principles, and they are enforceable by an organization or an agency.

I have suffered from both types of liars, too. But I don't think Stephen Lett is either. He was a District Overseer that included my present circuit. I've seen him up close in front of a congregation and at assemblies, although I can't say I have seen him interact closely with elders or other individuals. But he was known to be a man full of a lot of love and concern for others. When it comes to defending something he loves -- and he loves the organization -- he is prone to the same kinds of mistakes that all humans make. They will often "spin" and exaggerate and filter out negative details to try to put the thing they love in the best light possible. Most people do this naturally when it come to speaking about their children, their spouses, and other loved ones. If you listen closely to what he said, it was also obvious that it was calculated to be a true statement. He didn't say that we have no trouble with such crimes, or that we are better than other religions. He said that we don't protect sexual predators and a claim that we protect predators is a lie that finds its source in apostate lies. It turns out that he was trying to generalize, and probably spoke from a belief he holds to be true. I believe he is wrong in some serious ways, but I don't know that he knew he was wrong. I think he thought he was right. I do have direct evidence that we have upheld policies that have protected criminals more than we have protected the victims of these criminals. This may have even protected criminal elders more than others persons in congregations where such crimes have been committed. I think that even now there are policies and procedures that tend to protect criminals more than they protect children, but the written policy is almost as good as it can be made under the restrictions of the two-witness policy (as we currently think we must apply it).

About October 1, 4026 B.C.E. ? *** w89 8/1 p. 10 par. 2 God Purposes That Man Enjoy Life in Paradise *** To recognize that, look back at the newly created Adam when he first received consciousness, when he examined his own body and all that he saw and heard and felt around him, when he realized with a start that he was alive! This occurred some 6,000 years ago, in the year 4,026 before our Common Era, according to the count of time given in the Holy Bible. . . . The time would be about October 1, since mankind’s most ancient calendars began counting time near that date.

I just scrolled back through the thread to catch up on whether all the points in the original post were addressed. I don't really think they have been. On the point I just requoted, I only wanted to mention that it seems rather judgmental, and it does paint with a broad brush just as @HollyW already said, and it also seems to imply (as she said) a large part of the answer to your original question. In a potentially majority-Christian country such as the United States, you see the 1:400 ratio as a kind of "ideal" that implies (if God is not partial) that the entire world should ideally see something like a 1:400 ratio. That would be about 20,000,000 JWs spread more evenly across all the nations of the world. I point out the "judgmental" side of this approach, because all such speculation ends up being judgmental. Perhaps C.T.Russell was a little less so with the initial idea that all Christians would go to heaven but only 144,000 of them would rule as kings as Christ's bride, and these were the only ones who really counted in his book. In his day, he felt that many of the 144,000 had already been chosen over the past 1,800 years. Yet, he was still only really trying to address the small number of remaining restorationist "age-to-come" and "adventist" types who would typically be expected to come from a group of 20,000 to 50,000 persons still reeling from the Miller failure, but who were thus prepared by it to be receptive to Barbour's "midnight cry." The "midnight cry" occurred about midway between the failure of William Miller's 1843/1844 date and the "closing of the doors of heaven" to that small group, expected in 1878, then 1881. This much smaller number were the only ones he was trying to reach in the Watch Tower publications and preaching. Russell went to his death believing that it was only this small remnant of a few thousand that he was directly addressing. If any Christian failed to make it into that final opportunity to be among the Bride of Christ, he allowed that it was possible for them to still go to heaven as all other Christians of all denominations could have done. The rest of mankind would survive Armageddon's chaos into an ever-improving earth, under heaven's reign, along with the resurrection of billions who had died in the past. But back to the "judgmental" problem. Some JWs (on this forum, too) have given the idea that even very few JWs are true JWs. So perhaps the ratio only looks like 1:400 but is really ten times worse than that. This is judgmental. Some have allowed that people of "goodwill" in other religions might survive, but the best the Watchtower has done is tell us not to speculate about those persons. Questions of mental capacity, children, level of knowledge or to what extent persons have rejected the opportunity afforded them in this "generation" have come up, but are generally avoided in the publications. Also, Jesus said that in matters of judging others, we should look to our ourselves and find the "2-by-4" in our own eye before trying to take the speck out of another's eye. The reason your statement struck me as inappropriate (though common) is because one could argue that most of the years for those who followed the Watch Tower publications were marked by false prophecy, the Russellite cult, and a real emphasis on the Great Pyramid. There was a specific attraction based on exactly the things Jesus told us not to follow. (Such as those who would try to use expressions like "the time is at hand" to make people think they had a handle on the times and seasons.) So people might be just as correct (or just as judgmental) if they claimed that any Christian who followed Russell or Rutherford during the first half (or more) of this organization's existence were only following because they were Christians in name only, and their leaders were hypocrites. "Guest" was making a different point, but what if it was really about the idea that a group (Bible Students and Jehovah's Witnesses) come in at the 11th hour of the day - relative to the 2,000 years since Jesus' began sending workers into the field? We come in as a kind of new group with new ideas that don't seem right to the long-standing religions that have been around for 1,500 years or 1,000 years or 500 years. But Jesus accepts our contribution, too.

Hey! Something from the media that was very positive!

*** w83 1/15 pp. 24-25 par. 7 Armed for the Fight Against Wicked Spirits *** 7 The experience of a Christian elder in Germany, who also happens to be wealthy, is noteworthy. A Christian brother, knowing something about his financial status, asked him why he drove a Volkswagen (a less expensive car) and lived in a modest apartment. Becoming very serious, he answered: ‘Because if I drove a Mercedes Benz (a luxury car) and lived in an ostentatious manner, it could have a damaging effect on the spirituality of my Christian brothers and sisters.’ How different that attitude is from the world’s! To make a “showy display of one’s means of life” is the way of the world. (1 John 2:16) According to the world, the measure of success is the amount of money and material possessions a person has. But may that never be so in the Christian organization! We need to be armed so that none of this type of satanic thinking infiltrates our own thinking and that of the Christian congregation. At the same time our own godly devotion along with contentment will result in our not being critical of those who may seem to be overlavish in their way of life.—1 Timothy 6:6-8.

When did JWs ever say the word Christian was a demonically inspired word?

This one is for @Gone Away . Isn't that the Northenden, Manchester Assembly Hall?

I had no idea. But I like the game so I looked it up: "South Bronx Kingdom Hall at 1140 Teller Ave. KH on [first] Floor, CO [Circuit Overseer] apartment above. This was the home of the Melrose Congregation. Appears to be 1960's.

After the St. Louis convention of August 6-10, 1941, where J. F. Rutherford addressed his largest visible public audience of 115,000, also releasing the new book Children and making known for the first time that universal domination was the great issue . . . https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1955803 *** w69 10/15 p. 637 Appreciating Jehovah’s Mercy and Loving-Kindness *** And think of the enormous quantities of literature that are distributed within a day or two at our large conventions! This has always fascinated me. At St. Louis in 1941, for example, more than 125,000 copies of the book Children were distributed along with almost half a million of the booklet “Comfort All That Mourn." I'm at my mom and dad's house today in California, helping them pack and move, and just held a copy of the Children book that my father got at this same assembly.

Here's my opinion. It's a bit more generous. It was never intended to be a "report." It was someone using their imagination. They were imagining what a newspaper could look like right after Armageddon. Have you ever read a futuristic novel? It's not so different from this title and first line of Song 134: See Yourself When All Is New Just see yourself, just see me too; Just see us all in a world that is new. Think how you'll feel, how it will be . . . . These are actually good exercises for all of us. Sometimes if something doesn't seem real, we can imagine very specific actions we would take if it were real. In some cases a mental "run-through" can help us see if we truly have faith in something, or if it doesn't make sense. I think the person showed creativity in a similar way to one who writes a novel. Edited to add: It's like the final video from the convention as seen here: https://www.theworldnewsmedia.org/topic/56951-jw-convention-2018-final-video-english-version/?tab=comments#comment-91008 It's sensational, and it's not a true report. But it isn't intended to be. It's intended to exercise your imagination.

I'm guessing that in the first picture Angela Merkel is saying: "Did you hear the one about the Japanese man who . . . . ?" That could explain the second picture.

Duh! This is news? Why else would the United States support Al-Qaeda and Isis so soon after claiming we were trying to defeat them?

Yes. But I'll tell you the real problem I have with manipulating information. And I'm not saying you are the source of the manipulation. First of all, it's no longer "truth" in the most appropriate sense. If something purports to be from a specific source, then anyone who changes that source is putting words in the mouth of someone else. It's therefore the same as a misquote. Since it has very similar meaning, it's more of a paraphrase, but even a paraphrase should identify itself as such. In the long run, it often weakens the impact of information even when people think it strengthens the impact. Imagine what would happen if a person has excellent information about some mistakes the Watch Tower Society was making. Imagine that some of these, if taken seriously by the WTS, could result in fairness and justice for thousands of people who are now being treated inconsistently and unjustly. There were persons who publicly pointed out the inconsistency between the WTS political stance in Malawi vs. Mexico, for example. But by pointing it out, the WTS may have taken quicker steps to fix the problem they had created in Mexico. And in many other countries around the world, thousands were being unjustly imprisoned for the specific choices they were told that they could and could not conscientiously take with respect to alternative civil service. They, the GB, had already decided that it wasn't that important or even Biblical to hold onto the old traditional practice, and that a change could happen as soon as they found the time to vote on it again. But it was put off for a couple of more years, until a very public reminder was published in an infamous book by an ex-JW. In the meantime, during the delay, hundreds more JWs were unjustly imprisoned, but as soon as the GB voted again, the problem was taken care of just as the ex-JW had said. So what would have happened if that particular ex-JW had a reputation for manipulating information. Obviously, it would have been easy to ignore what he said, and just say that it was more lies from ex-JW apostates. Information can have value no matter where it comes from. Why weaken the value with manipulation? Also, in the specific case above where some JW-focused information was added, it came across as both pejorative and smart-aleck. Even flippant in the sense of borrowing slightly from the advertising slogan: "Coming to a theater near you!" This gives the impression that whoever wrote it wanted to "stick it" to JWs in particular. This can "back-fire" having a devaluing effect on the value of the information. It is useful to know that there may now be up to SEVENTEEN different victims and that one of them was abused perhaps 100 times. This is important information. But a lot of JWs might look at this poster and say: "Look how we are being picked on talking about "Kingdom Halls" like that. Look how they are going after us unfairly. Look how they focus on Kingdom Halls. I wonder if they would say the same about using churches as a hiding place to find sanctuary." Maybe they would; I don't know. But I do know that everyone has a certain amount of defensiveness that is natural for people of the same "tribe." Our tribe is our worldwide organization, and many Witnesses are quick to defend and grasp at straws to do so. Don't make up evidence. The real evidence is all people need. (See updated news release on this same criminal here: https://www.usmarshals.gov/news/chron/2009/122909.htm )

Don't misunderstand. It's not an out-and-out fraud. It's just that what is shown here was rewritten to supposedly have more impact on Witnesses. The updated case information which is also linked from one of the usmarshals.gov pages shows the person to be considered a true candidate for the 15 most wanted. I would have had no problem with almost all the same information shown from the original sources. It was almost identical. But there are dangers in trying to manipulate something like this. One danger is that people can start to focus on the inaccuracies and not see the greater picture. (Just as an aside, I find it odd that it focuses on the US and Canada, when it's so easy for an America citizen to hop on a "metro" in San Diego and get to Mexico in just a few minutes.)

Here's a relevant quote: Angela Merkel is now the leader of the free world, not Donald Trump -https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/angela-merkel-donald-trump-democracy-freedom-of-press-a7556986.html The US President isn’t motivated by protecting liberal democracy or freedom, his sole ideology is Trumpism: corporate autocracy with a populist facade. And he surrounds himself with white nationalists even more hostile to liberal democracy than he is Also see the Daily Mail article from a couple of years ago: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3303677/Putin-declared-powerful-man-world-Forbes-magazine-Angela-Merkel-replacing-President-Obama-second-place.html Putin is declared the most powerful man in the world by Forbes magazine... with Angela Merkel replacing President Obama in second place Vladimir Putin is declared world's most powerful for third year in a row German Chancellor Angela Merkel steals runner-up from Barack Obama First year a sitting U.S. President has not made it into the top two It's a comment on how much power the US has supposedly lost due loss of trust in the US Gov't for negotiating power. Trump's pulling out of prior international agreements indicates to nations that the US cannot be trusted to keep an agreement, and therefore the US loses powerful leverage as a player among other nations. Germany keeps control over international monetary policy in a way that the US can no longer manage. And the potential drain on the "full faith and credit of the US Govt" backing our Treasury bonds. (The way we [USA] try to sell our debt to other countries to pay for things like Trump's trillion dollar tax cut to favor the wealthy. As it is we will have to raise interest rates on Treasury bonds to entice foreign countries to fund this trillion dollars.)

The most powerful person in the free world. And she's staring down at Donald Trump. It looks like, John Bolton, the most dangerous man in the free world was there, too.

When I was 16, an 18 year old friend played parts his favorite Cheech and Chong album for me. I recall about three things from the album that were funny and not too embarrassing to tell. One of them was an imaginary conversation between two dogs walking down to the street when one of them has to do his duty. The other dog is impressed by the shape and symmetry of the production. The conversation includes: "Wow! Did I do that?" and the response "Yeah! You're a real Rembrandt!" The fact that this is in Rotterdam seemed to trigger the fecetious memory.

The wanted poster supposedly uses the phrase: "McLean uses Kingdom Halls as cover to hide and may be in a Kingdom Hall near you!" Not to take anything away from the man's crimes, but this struck me as a "gloss" intended to speak more directly to JWs. So I checked it against the actual wanted poster and the phrase does not show up there https://www.usmarshals.gov/investigations/most_wanted/mclean/mclean15.pdf That and a few other small things on the picture above makes it look like this was a specially made version just to share with JWs. (There are multiple typos, misspellings, and capitalization problems on the updated wanted poster, which don't show up on any of the actual wanted posters.)

Is her name Sigrid? (Not to invade anyone's privacy of course, so don't answer publicly. But I stayed at the home of a sister in Hamburg who could easily match that description. It's a long shot, of course, because probably 100 other sisters in Hamburg would fit the description.)

I can tell it's not Brother Barber, but I never met Ernie Beavor. Remember this about him though, as G.A. already mentioned: *** w01 2/1 p. 15 par. 7 Are You Living Up to Your Dedication? *** One such individual was Ernest E. Beavor of England. He became a Witness in 1939 at the beginning of World War II, and he gave up a flourishing press photography business in order to take up the full-time ministry. Because of maintaining his Christian neutrality, he went to prison for two years. His family stood by him, and in 1950 his three children attended the Watchtower Bible School of Gilead for missionary training, in New York. Brother Beavor was so zealous in his preaching activity that friends called him Armageddon Ernie. He loyally lived up to his dedication, and right down to his death in 1986, he proclaimed the imminence of GodÂ’s war of Armageddon. He did not view his dedication as a limited-time contract with God! This is something like the way he looked in 1980. The pic above could be 6 years later, or earlier. Â

C.T.Russell therefore claimed it was appropriate to refer to the 144,000 (in which he included himself) as "The Christ" and "The Eternal Father" and "God manifest in the flesh." In fact, this was not just about creating titles, so that, for example, the 144,000 could say they were "the Prophet Greater than Moses." C.T.Russell actually claimed he was a part of the sacrifice made on behalf of the world. He claimed he was a part of the Atonement that would that would justify mankind. He was very literally included in the "Savior" of mankind. In fact, Russell taught that Christ was not his Mediator. Not the Mediator of the 144,000. At first, for nearly 30 years, he taught this topic correctly, but then he received "new light" by which he claimed that this idea of Jesus as Mediator of the 144,000 was now part of the"smoke of the dark ages." In our issue of 1906, p. 26, we said, "Our Lord Jesus in his own person has been the Mediator between the Father and the 'household of faith' during this Gospel Age." This statement is incorrect. No Scripture so declares. It is a part of the smoke of the dark ages which we are glad now to wipe from our eyes. The book "What Pastor Russell Said?" p. 99-100: CHURCH—Re Need of a Mediator. Q99:1 QUESTION (1907)—1—Do we as individuals need Christ as our mediator before we become members of His Body? ANSWER.—I answer that if we had needed Christ as a Mediator, then God would have provided Him as a mediator, and the fact that God did not provide Him as our mediator, proves that we do not need Him as such. The Scriptures never speak of a mediator except from the standpoint of a covenant. . . . If we are faithful we will be members of the mediator class of that new covenant. In other words, you and I are invited to become members of the mediator of the new Covenant. . . . We are under the original covenant, which required no mediator. The church does not need a mediator. This was repeated several times until Russell died, and was even kept on as official doctrine under Rutherford. It shows up in the October 15, 1921 Watch Tower, but was officially changed in the April 1, 1934 Watchtower. In time, of course (1979) it was changed to mean that ONLY the 144,000 could have Jesus as their mediator, even though up to 1974 it had finally been applied to all mankind. But the main point, related of course, was that the 144,000 are included in the sacrifice and atonement. This was taught even from the first few Watch Tower magazines. (e.g., Watch Tower September 1880, p.139). Tabernacle Shadows had said: the followers of Jesus are represented by this "Lord's goat," but also that their sacrifice, reckoned in with their Head, Jesus, constitutes part of the world's sin-offering. . . . yet even now, any member of the "Royal Priesthood" may say to those who believe and repent, "Thy sins are forgiven thee"--as did our Head, by faith looking forward, as he did, to the completion of the sacrifices for sins (p.77,100) The 144,000 were referenced in the expression "Christ and his joint-sacrificers." In the WT February 15, 1909 issue: Thus the sacrifice of Christ, Head and Body, has progressed for over eighteen centuries. We believe that the consummation is near at hand. When the High Priest shall have accepted the last member of his Body, and shall have finished the sacrificing, he will apply, beyond the vail, the blood, his own blood—the blood of his members—on the mercy-seat, on behalf of all the people. This was not just Russell of course. It was also a teaching under Rutherford until 1939, just a couple years before he died. For example, the Watch Tower in May 15, 1928, p. 147: ". . . the blood of Christ, including the body members', is presented and used to make atonement for the sins of the people." and in 1935, p. 284: "The slaying of the Lord's goat and the carrying of its blood into the holiest of all to be sprinkled on the mercy seat there foreshadowed the sacrificial death of that class who would constitute members of the body of Christ, and therefore constitute a part of Christ. . . " The essential part of this teaching still lasted through the writings under Rutherford, Knorr, and Frederick Franz: *** w51 1/15 p. 56 par. 25 Participation with Demons Forbidden *** So for the members of the body of the Christ to have ‘life in themselves’ means to share the privilege with Jesus of bestowing the benefits of his sacrificed life upon obedient mankind during the thousand years of his kingdom. They will become his heavenly bride, “the Lamb’s wife.” As such they will mother the earthly children of the “Everlasting Father, the Prince of Peace”, Jesus Christ. (Rev. 19:7-9; 21:9, 10; Isa. 9:6) So the “little flock”, the “bride” class, are the exclusive ones that drink the blood of the Son of man as well as feed on his flesh. *** w78 3/1 p. 10 Memorializing Christ’s Death—How Much Longer? *** It was the opportunity to gain inherent life with the Christ in the heavens, “life in yourselves.” (John 6:53) By reigning with him in heaven they could pass on to mankind the life-giving benefits of his sacrifice. Same as the 1985 edition of "Reasoning from the Scriptures:" Thus those who are granted to have "life in themselves" like Christ will share with him in imparting to mankind the life-giving benefits of the ransom sacrifice. In 1986, this expression was no longer applied just to the anointed but could include those who come out of the Millennium. (w86 2/15).