Arauna

4 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

those one million pound houses before

My daughter bought a small home in UK in a safe area. One bathroom, 3 bedrooms - and it costs over over half million pounds.   So a 1 million pound house (especially in London must be the size of a dingy) and  is definitely not the epitome of luxury -  which impression you are trying to create.

To sell a house that people have been using is good. They can use this money to assist brothers in the rest of the world. I guess they are selling because it is no longer needed..... but if they kept it you would also complain.  One cannot ever please some people.....

I guess - according to you -  we can throw out all the scriptures which indicate the anointed will have heavenly bodies such as 1 cor 15 and revelations - too many places to mention.  Not even those which show they will be changed in an instant.

And the scriptures in Hebrews which indicate that they will be priests in the heavenly temple of jehovah.  

Jehovah is perfect in logic, so why give a heavenly body when a physical body is more suited to the earth? 

The marriage of the lamb will take place where?

Did Jesus give up his earthly body to receive a heavenly  spiritual body? And did he really say to his disciples they will be with him where he is?

Agh, there are just too many scriptures which indicate it is a heavenly kingdom and heavenly rulership....and a heavenly priesthood - a function you have forgotten about by just wanting to " rule"......... .which tells me you are up to your same old, same old behaviours. 

You boast you are of the body of christ...... so which "body" do you belong to which has perfect unity? . How many members?  Where do you meet?  And are you and your adherents fulfilling the prophesy that the good news of the kingdom will be preached throughout the earth? 

35 minutes ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

My donations are always by check,

If you think they use it for their own purposes then why do you donate?  That is not logical.

It depends on what you define as own purposes, private purposes, public purposes, necessities, etc. 

I think you really should be more thankful to be associated with the organization and what it does for us.

4 minutes ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

and controls billions of dollars worth of money, to spend as they alone see fit.

Just one question for you:  when you go to meeting or field service you get to use many videos that were made to be easily accessible for all ages and peoples.  Do you have any clue what equipment costs?   Many poor congregations in Africa receive projectors from the organization because they cannot afford it.

They do still print bibles and watchtowers etc.

Do you think they must remain in the Jurassic age when it comes to using technology or will it be ok by you if they venture to use the newest tech to support the brothers?

You have a budget to fulfill your responsibilities at home.....dont you?  Why not broaden out and see that they also need money to provide services in almost 1000 languages?  

I think we need a little more gratitude and less criticism...  ALL you see is "billions" which you try to imply are used for their own purposes.... 

They are always in need of funds to make it stretch further..... because we do get all our spiritual needs fulfilled without cost.  You need not give any donation if you feel they waste it.  You can use all amenities without giving a dime! 

12 hours ago, derek1956 said:

turn a serious matter into a joke?

My above comment was an illustration.  If you find it a joke you have not thought it through. It illustrates the need for "barriers" to drive on a road safely and also to drive through life. To not tread on each others toes we need barriers which are not crossed. When they are crossed society does not function properly.

There are people here who hate JWs..... so do not take them seriously.

On 12/10/2019 at 3:20 AM, Shiwiii said:

what Arauna, if I were here to spread hate, there would be plenty more of it. The fact of the matter is that you and I are very similar, we both want to open each others eyes. 

One can only open someones eyes if they are really searching for the truth.  I apologize if I have become too skeptical about the motives of people who contribute on this forum.  There is enough evidence here to suggest that I may be correct. 

On 12/10/2019 at 10:46 AM, Srecko Sostar said:

Various people living in various nations.

Jesus said they will know my disciples because the love among them. What kind of love? The love of Jesus which is self-sacrificing love.  Yes, I am prepared to give my life for my brothers. This is love in action.

During the Rwanda genocide brothers hid other families from the other tribe under their homes in holes..... if they were found out they faced immediate death by machetti  or gun.... this is self-sacrificing love amongst our African brothers.

Do the other churches in USA teach this kind of love? 

On 12/10/2019 at 1:11 AM, 4Jah2me said:

Stop making excuses for the Bible Students and early Witnesses. 

I bet your grear great grandmother who lived then (if she lived in USA) was a great racist.... just indicating that historical context does matter. 

12 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

like to point out is some Americans do not know how to clean their food. No cleansing, no nothing. Which results in blood and or chemicals in the food. One thing that cannot be deterred is what is fed to the livestock, in which are used as food sources.

True.  There are things we do not have control over. Kreutzers disease is a result of cannibalism..... feeding animals their own kind. 

9 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

For God to fulfil his 'plans' I would think He would need some kind of 'united people' Earth wide. And hence He would need to guide those people by using/sending His Holy Spirit to them. 

Exactly!  There is a united loving group of people all over the earth under the name of God- jehovahs people.  The miracle is that they have unity despite being IMPERFECT.    Just like  old israel, dedicated to jehovah, individuals are imperfect and stumble like David and Solomon.  God loved David - but he did not have hundred 100% of gods spirit all the time. 

Jehovah can inspire a group of people to accomplish a purpose.  Israel of old brought forth the messiah and provided the imputus for the first congregations despite all the problems had with them. 

 The nation of God today allows for jehovah to accomplish the preaching work and guarantee survivors (a great crowd)  through armageddon.  The slave helps us to understand our stance of neutrality and morality - which will be tested.  Our faithfulness to Jehovahs kingdom government and its principles will be tested.  The slave teaches us what we need at this time......to survive Armageddon.

If you have so much of gods spirit that you can quote scriptures in a sly way to sow doubt on others who may have gods spirit? ..... Whose will are you serving?  

The facts are before you: there is a united nation for Jehovahs name - against all odds. They are preaching earth wide a kingdom government which christendom does not even understand to be a real government. Our members only vote by their loyal actions for gods government,  whereas christendom are all voting for various political factions and even going to any war their leaders wish to embroil them in. As for the godless..... we know what the bible has to say about them.

7 hours ago, Shiwiii said:

get exactly what you mean, kinda like these? 

"Families are free to report abuse to the authorities" 

"leave it in Jehova's hands"

"click on jw.orb"

"the answers are on the website"

"That's for Jehova to decide" 

"we don't shun former members" 

"we only had the library card

Your OCD  deceit and hate  is showing. .....

On 12/3/2019 at 11:32 PM, Matthew9969 said:

Apparently you didn't read the label on jw.org.

You are always accusing GB of being dictators but this proves you wrong.  Personal conscience is recognized.  There are so many things which are left to personal conscience - such as blood reactions.

Personally, I think jehovah loves Turkey because he made them.  It is the humans which use them for the wrong purpose.  Just as humans misuse blood without the respect for the life it represents.

Yes, christiandom had a big role to play in the suppression and even the extermination of the "savages", especially in spanish south America.  The wars between protestant and catholic took their toll in Europe just before the new world opened up.  Christendom has a lot to answer for before jehovah.

I come from the stock of huguenots who fled from France to South Africa and started the wine industry there. They obtained slaves from Malaysia and some intermarried. Our language has many French and Malaysian influences which is different from current Dutch.

When I visited the Spanish fort  close to Jacksonville, florida,  I discovered that the Spanish massacred the huguenots who fled from France to Florida for religious freedom.  The details were shocking.

Christendom's history is blood thirsty and oppressive of the people under its dominion.  At the beginning of our organization these attitudes were not immediately stomped out.  The brothers focussed on the other truths that were new such as the mortality of the soul, jehovahs name and so forth.

But thanks to jehovah we now have a miracle of unity and love all over the earth..... only Jehovahs spirit can allow people to make these drastic changes in their own hearts and attitudes.  In South Africa it is very clear...... the brothers who take the lead are wonderful and mostly black..... trained in the scriptures. 

13 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

Jesus would have been a consummate liar in the

Agreed.  What they want is a government which will outlaw the bible and Jesus (I think of Matt 24 where it indicates that those having faith in jesus' randsom sacrifice will be persecuted). California recently tabled a law which would have basically outlawed the bible - but it did not pass...... but how long before it does? 

We cannot be deceived to take sides because some political party is 'perceived'  as loving God a little more than the other side and fights infantacide...... when they are in fact - the beast.  The racial hatred and injustice in USA has tripled in the past few years because of official statements made,  perceptions created and the outrageous reaction of the opposing press......it is like a cold civil war going on.

On the other side of the beast is the secular, humanist, feminist, LGBTQ, materialist goals and this side has a stated hate for the God of the bible and its white supremacist leaders... (again a generalization:  but its members belong to a party who loves Islam and shuns the bible's values - even if they go to church.) 

For us as JWs - there is no choice between the two...... because both are playing their part to lead us to Armageddon..... the one a little faster than the other.

Human government sucks and it gets clearer and clearer every day.  We should keep focussed on Jehovahs government.... watch just enough news to know where things are going..... and keep focussed on preaching and building each other up.

On 12/6/2019 at 9:49 PM, TrueTomHarley said:

Look at that medal count, Tommy!” he shouted. “We’re cleaning up!”

This is so typical.....loved this experience !  People are people, and their ideas on neutrality are not the same - even after the lessons have been repeated over and over  in the watchtower.  Keeping neutral .... but not understanding what true neutrality is.   Neutrality does not mean you are not supposed to know what is happening around you or that someone has to be silenced when they mention something ... But I reckon.... this is where true humility comes into play and for the sake of peace,  refrain from having  your say.  It can also come back to bite you. There is a time to keep silent.

Neutrality is making a choice every time an issue comes up.  Granted, it us hard not to take sides when you have an idea about who is lying in a particular situation....!  But deceit and lying is all part of the political game. These politicians gave up something to be where they are.  Truth and sincerity are replaced by ambition and lies and many hidden deals.  I am astounded at the open nepotism tolerated everywhere in Washington- on both sides of the isle! People have truly lost their moral compass!   And the staggering amounts of money to be made ....... poor politicians become multi-millionaires pretty quickly .... and so do their children make tons of money and extend their influence in other countries!  

These days, no politician  can fight a clean fight and expect to win..... too much spying,  false leaks in the news, misinformation and outright acrimony. 

I do watch world news and events to see fulfillment of bible prophecy.  No matter who wins the next election - USA is on a downward spiral and the spectators will be agast when they realise the plane is totally out of control.  The speed of the decent depends on who is next elected....... the speed of the decent may be fast or slow.  The self-deceit of the public is amazing and helped by the press who mostly tell the public what they want to hear.   America will still exist when the end comes but it will have handed over it power willingly to the eighth king....... So, if a certain party - which is very willing to hand over its autonomy, wins - then I will gauge that the decent will be faster than i anticipated...... 

The "clay and iron" has reached a point of  irreconcileability......and this same scenario is playing out in Europe, Australia, Canada etc.  (Bible so accurate in its predictions) . In the meantime Russia, China and all their allies are extending their economic influence and territories. It is really now just a matter of time then things will truly become ugly and we will know that we have arrived at the time we were waiting for!  We will see jehovah in action! 

On 12/10/2019 at 9:12 PM, 4Jah2me said:

also include the unnecessary deaths of people dying through lack of blood, but that one is still debatable as the true meaning of the scriptures on that are not exactly known. Hence the GB keep moving the goal posts. And i will believe Matthew 12 v 9 -12. where Jesus talks about saving lives. 

@Arauna only' knows it is a price well worth paying' because she isn't actually paying that price

Are you for real? You know nothing about me.....and the tests I had to face.... 

But I know the word of God and I have paid my dues.  My daughter had cancer and had surgery  which lasted the entire day..... without blood and she was 8 and half months old.  ....

If she had taken blood she would not have survived.  It is what the doctors and this world don't tell you that is important!  I can share all the info I learnt  with you to prove to you that the bible is absolutely right when it cautions us to abstain from blood. .... if you are interested I can inform you.

It takes the liver 30 days to break down foreign blood in the system..... if the person is too weak they get anaphalactic shock from the blood transfusion - which is never given as the reason for death on the death certificate. ..... always complications from surgery.

Life is important to me ..... but everlasting life is more important. 

On 12/10/2019 at 10:46 PM, 4Jah2me said:

if you only see the good, you are not being honest with yourself or others.  @Arauna is a case in point.  

Are you honest? I have just seen you bashing JWs, never acknowledging anything good about them.   You have given me labels many times in your so-called bias - search for something which can only be called truth if it confirms to your personal viewpoint. 

On 12/10/2019 at 9:12 PM, 4Jah2me said:

don't. I just want it made clean. As

How unrealistic this expectation in a wicked world...... Do you believe the bible?   Yes or No ?   God himself chose king Saul for his humility and then saul turned aside and became unapproved.... to the extent that he visited the witch if Endor calling up the dead.   Jesus chose Jude himself after praying with holy spirit and jude later became  wicked (practicing theft, deceit) and eventually betrayed him..... 

We can try to obtain a clean congregation but there will always be individuals who can turn wicked and create problems until someone speaks up and evidence is obtained.   And if the government cannot get a conviction ?  Then we only have rumours to go on..... which is unloving if there is no proof.  The bible itself says we must not defame others.  It is also a grave offence.  This is why it is hard to obtain perfection. Do we err on the side of obtaining justice or mercy...... because both these attributes are important.

On 12/11/2019 at 10:36 AM, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

label everybody "green people" to

We had a joke in SA - the light green people must please sit in the back of the bus......

In South Africa we use the term 'coloured' in different way than USA.   Historically we had a group of people (since inception of SA 370 years ago) who were a mix between black and white and they spoke the European language : Dutch.  So they were officially not black and not white.  To the whites they were never white enough and for the black people not black enough. 

13 hours ago, JW Insider said:

all over the world has drawn attention to a lot of things that go on in the world where the abused victims felt powerless. In many institutions, including once-hostile work environments, this is actually changing for the better. The threat of monetary sanctions has made even rich men who could once get aw

Although the "me too" movement has brought the plight  of individuals to the fore I think it is a temporary phenomena.  We will see a few institutions sued for money due to past  negligence (as JWs) to provide a public token of supposed caring and a "show" of justice but the  true and horrific extent of child trafficking and sex abuse will not be exposed.  It is a world- wide network which, I suspect, brings in profits comparable to, or more than drugs,  and is active also amongst the depraved elite, including CIA, judges, princes etc. It will escalate as young children are now groomed by the new UN school curriculim. Child sex abuse is covered up by law enforcement and government institutions we trust because rich and important people are involved. 

Here is another general  comment: satan's world will soon not be hidden any longer. It will no longer operate in the shadows. Seriously wicked things will go on in full view of the public as this way of thinking infiltrates all aspects if thinking in society..... like LGBT it will be tolerated.  Mankind is sinking lower and lower in a depraved mental state.

19 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

It is easy to overgeneralize, as @Arauna perhaps has done. Still, Shultz on my Twitter

One gets a sense of who really is here to get closer to the truth of a matter (within reason)  and who just wants to destroy - like Satan.  Satan: always wants to win by destroying all truth and reasonableness and uses deceit.   I do see a general attitude here at times. Sorry if it hurts feelings but there are people here whom I have called out as having OCD because I already know what their answer will be. They revert back to same old answers and behaviour expecting different results.

I guess I am predictable too.  I hate deceit...... 

19 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

think that’s very unlikely. I mean, come on, are you going to cuss out an

People are pretty disrespectful these days..... burn the bible, call jesus names... I think we will see very bad behaviour in future towards all who believe in christ. 

27 minutes ago, 4Jah2me said:

The Org has control over a baptised person.

If you drive a car on the road and you follow the road rules..... you do not encounter a problem and you do not feel as though you are under law....  BUT break the rules such as going over a solid white line ..... one stands a chance of killing your own family or another in an oncoming car..... or the police may catch you....   So you are only under law when you break the law. ..... When you keep/observe the law you are safe and free.....   So there is only police control when you break the law or the law of disaster steps in because of risk behaviour..... 

So the org has no control.... your own behaviour puts you at risk....... but irresponsible people with risk behaviour see it as encroachment on their freedom.

2 minutes ago, 4Jah2me said:

You are not intelligent enough to comprehend real truth. 

I did not know you have the professional qualification to determine my intelligence? ... as to your opinions..... they do tell a lot about you. 

3 minutes ago, 4Jah2me said:

GB which you worship and the JW Org which you serve . 

Now this is also a fallacy - so I do not think I will waste my time to correct your thinking about whom I worship. Think what you will. You have a right to a silly opinion.

4 hours ago, Matthew9969 said:

that mean Jesus got his drivers license when he was 31?

Lol - .... how fast does a donkey go?

2 hours ago, Shiwiii said:

changes to suit those in the power tower. 

No surprise because you have a negative opinion.... and I suspect a hate for all authority...in any shape or form

19 minutes ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

someone with no sense of humor!

There is a time for everything..... humor can also be derogatory 

4 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

black person would have been three miles away, running as fast

This  is about traditions which are spiritistic and cruel which people cling to.  Many caucamsian tribe used to practice cannibalism, spiritism etc.  a long time ago but christianity changed it.  

It is the judeo-christian traditions  which gave us human rights in the west...... but it took a long time for traditions of slavery and other cruel traditions to be abolished..... and unjust practices persisted. 

Female mutilation  and child marriage  is still prevalent  and a blind eye given to it.......which Jehovahs people do not allow - just as we do not allow for racism and bias in our congregations. Yes, spiritual maturity has helped us to see the error of our ways..... but many people who are so-called Christian's are still racist....... it just depends on the degree.

As I said before: our brothers in Africa  are doing a fine job as elders and servants in the congregations.