Arauna

16 hours ago, AlanF said:

Where do you get all this nonsense? Do you just make it all up?

Not much of a thinker are you? Your dismissive attitude proves my point..... You have never thought of these issues in your life before? Just dismissal? ..... 

In  the Seinfeld show the female character used to comment about someone being " spunge-worthy".  By your dismissive attitude of important questions surrounding evolution and atheism..... you are proving yourself  "unworthy " of my time and attention.

The most important atheist debaters of our era have taken the time to consider these questions. You are obviously too smart for your own good .......you do not even consider them and give replies like the above......

As I have said before - what is a person like you doing on this forum if not  with the single purpose  to irritate...  The subject originally was about child molestation and people going to court for perceived negligence. 

Atheists inherited their morals from the Christian-judeo traditions.  Before the Jewish law given to Moses, most nations burnt their children in fires and slept with whatever and whomever they wished.  Male and female fertility rites on the mountains.......

As I demonstrated before - if one believes purely that  there is no God and we come from a soup by chance ..... no amount of logic will give you any morals.

20 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

them too. And i was excited when was able to get "Aid to Bible understanding" in 1984 in Vienna Betel one evening in September.  

I had such a large collection of books but my moving from country to country  has made me get rid of most of them now. I had bibles with Jehovahs name in, in several African languages, too.

The" Insight" online has this advantage which I like very much..... one can look up any supporting scripture on the spot... and it usually gives one something you have not thought of before.  They also update it regularly -i think-  because the history updates include the newest discoveries.  I like to revisit old subjects and get the newest info. 

15 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

in seeing in all life on Earth the directed hand of God.

At least you acknowledge the design component ...... 

What is your thoughts on the second law of thermodynamics?  

2 hours ago, AlanF said:

As usual you're so far off the beam that you're not even wrong.

Where do you get all this nonsense? Do you just make it all up?

Actually I have watched Christopher Higgins debate quite a few philosophers on this subject..... atheist never come out on top with good arguments.

1 hour ago, Srecko Sostar said:

The true knowledge will become abundant,” the Bible book of Daniel foretold. When would that happen? During “the time of the end.” (Daniel 12:4) Especially since 1914, Jehovah has helped those who truly desire to serve him to grow in understanding of the Bible.  

I grow in knowledge of the bible by reading the Insight book..... there are fascinating things in there.... I would encourage all to strengthen themselves in this way.  I have also picked up some useful info by reading old publications........ not to criticize the GB as others do here on this forum but to find new little tit-bits I had not thought of before. 

11 hours ago, AlanF said:

12 hours ago, Top Cat O’Malihan said:

What are your thoughts about the future of Darwinian evolution? Do you feel that your personality represents its pinnacle, or may we look forward to reaching even greater heights? 

Thank you, sir, for your work.

Bugger off, Tom.

Yes- an important question.  Those atheistic  humanists who are now leading society to the situation called Armageddon are saying that society will now  'evolve' to bring "peace and security" to all humankind.  Of course,  they are quite willing to pressure everyone to conform to their idea of it. They are not willing to wait another 500 billion years for that to happen because by then humans and their consumerism will have destroyed the earth and all its resources.

13 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

how come there’s not more black brothers in positions of authority?’ The answer was that, due to

I regularly visit South Africa and usually there is a minority of white elders - depending on the area.  In areas where the majority are black brothers there are no white elders.  They are doing a fine job!  

12 hours ago, AlanF said:

comments about witch-doctoring and astrology and Velikovskyism and all manner of goofy, nonsensical belief systems. For example I very much like what a JW-critical author said some 50 years ago:

Fallacy......  in Africa the brothers are persecuted or killed because they do not participate in witch doctoring or participate in rituals of superstition.  I am African, I know what goes on there. These commentators sit behind a desk in USA and write about things they do not know and gullible people like alanF believe it.

When brothers go back to their old superstitious  traditions they are counseled by the African elders and will lose their JW status if they do not repent. 

2 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

have seldom met someone so bereft of them as you.

2 hours ago, AlanF said:

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

The qualities displayed by atheists is an important argument against them.  This is the reason why there were more people killed in war than ever before after Darwin wrote  his book on the "superiority" of the survival if the fittest (most aggressive too!) .  It spawned  people like stalin, Hitler, Mao seTung etc.... who killed more people than any religion or war ever did in history before that. 

If one does not believe there is accountability to a God- because all creation are mere animals which came here by mere chance from a pool of murky water - one becomes your own God and one does what one can to please oneself -  animalistic. Those without conscience will also murder if they can get away with it and many other immoral things if society let's them get away with it too!...... such as we have seen under atheist dictatorships.  China at present using the body parts of religious prisoners for commercial transplants. 10,000 transplants per year.

The argument that atheism can provide morals is false.  So why would an atheist come to a forum like this?  To troll to create anger, devision, or find someone who they can carry away as their victim.

13 minutes ago, Anna said:

all it says is that they are to provide timely spiritual food, which is already in the Bible

Totally agree Anna,  the GB receive just enough holy spirit for their tasks and in the congregations around the world many anointed are serving to strengthen and help others. They do not see themselves as leaders at all. I know of one who stepped down as an elder because his own family needed more attention. Females support the congregation in so many other ways teaching the younger women to have a spirit of service.  Jehovah us never unjust - never partial.  Many brothers under the anointed receive as much holy spirit as they do - if they pray for it.  

24 minutes ago, 4Jah2me said:

But your GB domineer them. Will God and Christ allow that to continue ? I think not. 

You use the word domineer so easily..... I call it "facilitation".

Soon you will see what domineering really is. Africa is full of these kind of domineering rulers.  China is now domineering everything in the lives of their subjects by means of 24 hours of surveillance - big brother style....

Americans like to call anyone giving them an instruction, domineering or a dictator. Talk about socialism and americans call them a communist.....total overreaction.....    40 years of indoctrination by movies wants the US youth to have freedom to do everything they want but with no responsibility/accountability.  These secular -style ideas/philosophies are infiltrating us everywhere!..... even the congregation! 

Sin "dominates" us all and is a terrible burden....  the wish to dominate is never ever a benevolent quality...... and so is rebellion against jehovah. This is why elders are always warned not to dominate others but to show them the relevant scriptures because obedience to scripture is a personal choice. When individuals choose to overstep Jehovahs rules, then they can face the consequences for their actions  themselves. They cannot say like Adam "so and so told me to do it".

43 minutes ago, 4Jah2me said:

Whereas God through Christ has anointed people from ALL the Earth. 

No- not true.  Prophets like Elisha were anointed for a specific job.  Kings were also anointed for a specific job as was the high priest.

Jesus was anointed with holy spirit to be the messiah (future king and high priest) and the kingdom covenant was for the anointed as kings and priests-  like Jesus.

They were anointed for a specific job. At end of thousand years they may get a new assignment or remain in their positions..... but they will hand over the kingdom back to jehovah when their assignment is completed.

19 hours ago, AlanF said:

Therefore humans must have existed for a short time, presumably the 6,000 years allowed by the Watchtower Society. I gave the above comment as part of a proof that her reasoning was unsound.

The comment or rebuttal you gave is not worthy of attention because mutations have minimal beneficial effects - mostly extreme adverse affects.   Accumulation of adverse effects will outweigh the few beneficial effects.  If humans have been here for 500 billion years then the adverse effects would have outweighed the good effects and could not have built new species - even by natural selection of only the good effects -  but instead caused our demise and extinction.  

2 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

The Org needs Anointed people from around the Earth, to be the leaders of the Organisation.

Says who? 

The ones who are now spearheading the organization are training others all the time - elders, servants etc.  Their time for ruling and being together  is not now ... but in future.... then they will all be together under christ and their administration will bring mankind back to the original purpose of God.  The promises of being together under christ lies in future. 

The original congregations were mostly anointed but the great crowd now makes up the largest part of the congregations.... and the obligation to meet together and encourage each other is as much the great crowd's obligation as the anointed.

So we must read in it hidden messages?   Sounds more like mysticism to me...... or evolution.  Seeing something where it does not exist. 

2 hours ago, AlanF said:

Obviously you can't answer any of my challeng

You expect answers when you have no intention or capability to answer my challenges.

2 hours ago, AlanF said:

You're approaching Orwellian crimestop here.

Always dramatic, over the top sweeping statements - no rationality here!

Berlinsky is seen as essential reading for any philosopher or debater on evolution. Not only is he a mathematician and philosopher but did a post-doctoral on molecular biology. 

He himself says that evolutionists evade the most important questions and only answer that which is convenient to them.... i agree, there are too many unanswered questions in evolution but evolutionary fanatics refuse to even look at them.

When I say to you that ALL nerves are connected in the body I talk from personal experience.  My daughter had neuroblastoma  - a nerve cancer.  The growth was removed from the main nerve on the right hand side of the chest at almost 9 months of life.... it was in one area......but affected "everything  " on the right hand side of her body....from head to toe.  The smallest nerves in her hands and feet (extremities) were not functioning to allow normal growth as on the left side.  She is a beautiful girl but on closer inspection one will find that everything is smaller on the right side.   I do not need to get technical on this one because my own observation has taught me the truth about the connectedness of ALL nerves.

Regarding all your other arguments - life could not exist if the cell does not have a membrane........... particles may have collided and after hitting the jackpot millions of times maybe formed some unstructured strings of material....... but how did they end up being in a "container"  to keep them together so that the intricate structures and separate DNA of the mitochondria could develop .... and what about the cooperating structures within the cell which act like factories for the replacement of protein and the removal  of garbage........ life is much more conneted and complex than evolutionists wish to give attention to..... 

I leave it at this, because the questions of understanding the future, morality, speech, and other wonders (which only humans posess and can appreciate and no animals have) are also questions to consider apart from the obvious biological aspects and the cosmos.  The only thing Darwins theory did explain was the minute adaptions which could bring about larger beaks etc....but nothing to explain a change in species..  

If you have an honest bone in your body you will re-evaluate your fanatic  persuasion.  New evidence on the shortness if the time period for the Cambrian explosion of only 10 million years..... and the explosion of the different kinds of mammals in this short time without any previous animals of this kind..... boggles the mind.

The spirit of God can only flourish where there is truth and an honest search for the truth. This is also true of any JW - if they stop acknowledging or practicing the truth they may start to dominate others like King Solomon did at the end of his life.   Each person is responsible to evaluate themselves constantly..... to tell if they are hypocritical or truthful about themselves and their practices.

1 hour ago, Witness said:

They DO NOT SEEK OUT OTHERS who claim to have the same calling, HOPING TO BOND WITH THEM or endeavoring to form private groups for Bible study" =  the Body is to remain APART AND DIVIDED.

So that is your problem!     You do not really want to associate with the lowly earthly class in your congregation and serve them.... - you see yourself as creating a class system where all anointed are bunched together in one place (or only benefit themselves in small groups) and only serve each other in humility........ what kind of humility is that! 

Or do you want to teach!   As a woman it is NOT your place to teach and from what I have seen of your constant dripping of only one idea..... concerning yourself..... I do not think you are capable of teaching - definitely not JWs.

The true anointed I have known in the congregations are humble people.  Happen to know a 87 year old woman in South Africa...... humbly and lovingly serving as a pioneer and cooking for everyone! 

Happened to know a very poor black man from Zambia  living in one and half room shack with seven children...... he had a good job (drawing signs on shops)  but it was being fased out by computer developments for signs.  Happened to meet him through another refugee from Rwanda (whom I met at an assembly and is still my friend and brother)..... He (the anointed) was helping to feed this brother on his salary because this brother was living in a one room shack with his family- no food .  He was a teacher but could not get a job in S. Africa..... Now this - helping others and trusting jehovah will provide - I call faith, humility and self-sacrifice!  I think when he finishes his life-course he will understand true pain, suffering and poverty.... he always showed a christ like attitude. He had to leave SA and go back to Zambia where he could still find a job in the industry.   

The priviledged "anointed'  I have my doubts about....... but I will refrain to judge because jehovah is the judge. 

8 hours ago, AlanF said:

fact is that natural selection weeds out the bad mutations; at least, it did until the advent of modern medicine.

In one cell one needs a minimum of 150 proteins to function. A protein has a specific sequence of DNA material that can only fit in a specific way and is folded in a specific way. ..... very complex. 

Nano-bio-engineers work together in groups and take months to produce only one chemical needed for such a protein........ with perfect conditions in the lab, many sets of brainy ideas.  This if for only one chemical that is needed to build ONE complex protein.  

Then every cell has a complex energy factory - the mitochondria -  which by the way has its own separate DNA, which can only be inherited from a woman....... (Eve).   Apart from this we have the transport system in the cell........... and most of all the important MEMBRANE.    If the membrane was not there (in the chemical soup you believe in..... )  the cell material would not have been able to stay together...... the material would have dissipated and NEVER EVER formed a cell. ..... and then the cell still needs LIFE..... The mechanisms to maintain the cell is much more complex than evolutionists can imagine.   Evolution deliberately simplifies the cell, its mechanics and structure.

So - who of us has been duped?   The one who has put his faith in "human intelligence" or the one who has realized there is a higher intelligence. 

Mathematically it is impossible to get even one cell developed in 500 billion years - we need time beyond what scientists are saying is the age of the universe.

7 hours ago, AlanF said:

and I'm certain you don't get even them in your mailbox

Definitely, I do not get pro-creation papers in my mailbox......I read the newest information to see the flaws in it - for myself.

For example:  when they found more than 10 proteins in dinosaur bones-  it pointed to a younger earth.  The next paper was a rebuttal.  They postulated that the iron in the blood must have preserved the proteins in the bones. They proved in the paper that iron CAN preserve proteins - which is the only information I agree with.

The problem I had with that  postulation was is this: large amounts of blood are not available in the bones and  while one may find a centrifuge in a lab to concentrate the iron for a test ......  I have never seen a dinosaur bone with a built-in centrifuge to clump the iron in the blood together to preserve the bones.  No-one spotted the absurdity that one cannot compare what happens in a lab to what happens in nature. 

I can give you another example with Mr Dawkins.  He made a big do about analysing and cutting out the nerve of a giraffe on TV  and demonstrating how unneccesary it was for the nerve to curve around the heart - he said it was bad "design"..... a left over from evolution.

As an African I immediately spotted his lack of understanding of animals and lack of thinking things through.  Giraffes have exceptionally long necks and need the heart to get feedback of the pressure to get the blood to the head..... the design is perfect...... there are other reasons as well......in our bodies "everything"  is connected ...... which is one of the several complexities which  point to design.

For example: one needs the brain to interpret what the eyes see.  The eyes in its complex design cannot see without the brain, which interprets the information.  Which one came first? They eye or the brain.... when they both need each other to functio, it means there was pre-existing  "information" that the other organ would exist. This indicates a presence of "coordinated information" or "pre-knowledge"......... a form of intelligence.

Male and female organs that developed separately yet are perfectly biologically coordinated.... each providing only HALF of the genetic material needed to produce a new life etc..... I can go on and on....

Obviously - one of us is a fanatic about " religion" ...... and I know it is not me.   SCIENCE is not as infallible as you thought.... scientists are often egotists...... they do not always go in the direction the truth leads them but in the direction where they can publish papers.  So your Mommy Science has fed you a lot of claptrap and it does not even have good motives. 

..... 

7 hours ago, AlanF said:

long series of gradually accumulating structures that built upon previously existing structures

According to science there was an ice age inbetween..  and the  "goldilocks" conditions " over such a long period of time is a fallacy.   

30 minutes ago, AlanF said:

Summaries are not science articles. Apparently you're not astute enough to know that.

I get a summary with a link to the original paper.    

32 minutes ago, AlanF said:

comment to which I replied as above was so abysmally ignorant

I am still waiting for the answer you refused to give earlier because you are a fake....  I asked a question about the math behind hitting the "jackpot" millions of times per second for  billion of years.  And you get stuck on the matter of  love .......  and refuse to accept the third postulation.

Another math problem with your theory is that humans develop several mutations per day in their DNA which can affect them adversely.  Most die of cancer these days.  If humans have lived a long as you say - they would already have gone extinct with the number of accumulated mutations. .... 

35 minutes ago, AlanF said:

As for his motives, who knows?

I told you..... he answers people like you because he can - he is qualified to do so. 

11 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

he would have been known as a third class physicist.

True..... 

11 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

all

Your comment aboout string theory as just a theory - yes, mathematics is only a tool - a language to describe something which cannot be described in a written language.  Most people make a mistake to accept it as reality. 

13 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

think how you didn't read carefully 

Apologies dear - no prob.  I just butted in that we are not pacifist..... lol.   Did not mean to mess up thread.

5 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

JW organization consider self to be Christians.

To understand the randsom sacrifice is crucial - that jesus gave his soul in death for 3 days.  Not love but self-sacrificing love as set in the example of jesus. 

If I love you more than myself (prepared to give my life) and you live me more than yourself (prepared to give your life) the world will be a different place. Alas !  We will all show this kind of love completely  under futurekingdom of Christ.

33 minutes ago, JW Insider said:

Christ Jesus directly, has promoted the idea that we really are expected to be pacifists.

Don't agree.  We are ambassadors or emissaries for the  kingdom of Jehovah under Jesus.

What does an emissary do?  He is 'Actively' promoting his own government and loyal to his own government while remaining  neutral in the affairs of the foreign government.

We are active, very active doing ambassadorial work - not passive.

57 minutes ago, César Chávez said:

For faith based individuals,

Good point. I also read an article written after Hawkins' death wherein he also "debunked"  string theory by indicating mathematically that 23 universes are not possible.

Let me make it clear to all visitors here: my "faith"  that God exists is not a blind faith but a faith based on evidence.  Evidence in the magnificence of creation in the infinite number of small wonders and the cosmos out there.  

As I said before: I have studied the intrinsic logic of the main theme of the bible for its cohesion and continuity.  I believe the bible is the only reality which is still ongoing.

I studied it in the light of project management principles and even did a risk assessment of the entire globe.  This is when I started to look at certain political developments in the world in certain sectors to determine where we are in the stream of time........and where we are heading.  

As truetom Harley indicated earlier -  even non-Christians admit to irreconcileable problems/hate in the secular political system.... it is not just in USA. It is everywhere!    The less than one persent of people in the West who own the money of the world (they own all the major corporations, press and surveillance capabilities)  see one world system as the only solution to create "peace and security" for its inhabitants.   We are already in the transformation stage of the process.......  these people see China as the model to follow.....

Stick to Jehovah through the difficult times.  Atheists, who are humanist, will  believe the UN when they bring in one set of laws /values for everyone and persecute those who do not conform.  Atheists will conform to save their necks but will not have the favour of jehovah when it all falls apart. And fall apart it will because humans were not made to rule themselves. 

The propaganda is doing its job - leading to Armageddon...... it is discrediting all witnesses in every possible way and promoting atheism.

8 minutes ago, AlanF said:

I'll bet you think that creationist rags are science magazines.

I get a summary from all the newest papers in research in my inbox every day...... regarding evolution, cosmology, medical, textile,  material discoveries, paleontology etc.  I do not read all off them but pick what I want to read.

10 minutes ago, AlanF said:

LOL! Dunning-Kruger yet again.

Same old OCD when you do not have an answer.

13 minutes ago, AlanF said:

Completely clueless. That's straight out of creationist literature, except a little buggered.

Unfortunately for you - it comes from a book called "devils delusion"  written by a prominent philosopher and mathematician.  He is agnostic. When asked why he wrote against evolution he said: Because I can...... 

He also got sick and tired of evolutionists pretending to have all the answers....... when evolution is more of a religion than science - hiding true evidence and extrapolating on issues which can possibly  improve their stance.  The  real truth is: the math does not add up in evolution "theory".

And I already know your OCD answer us going to kick in..... about  now.....

10 minutes ago, AlanF said:

Quote

 

Bingo!

You latch onto one idea and ignore the point of learnt behaviour.......  you suddenly become clairvoyant about the future ...... 

14 minutes ago, AlanF said:

people and act as if the humans were their mothers. The tiger viewed the dog as its mommy.

You error here is in focusing on the exceptions rather than the rules.

You are making it a rule - what if there is a possibility that exeptions can become the rule.  What if humans provided animals with what they needed and they did not learn from their mothers to hunt?  Could behaviour change?  And since you are such a proponent of micro evolution, could the animals not adapt (macro evolution) to survive?    

It seems that every word on this forum is labelled  "rediculous"  when your ideas (which have no thought behind them) are not adopted as absolute truth.

23 minutes ago, AlanF said:

The simple fact is that you do not have enough knowledge of evolution or any creation scenario to judge anything at all. This is the Dunning-Kruger effect in action.

Now this is really a true case of OCD. Always  a repetition of insults. You do not know what I have read and studied. .... 

I did answer your previous question.  As usual you chose to ignore it. I indicated a flaw in your reasoning -   that you only considered 2 hypothesis ...... when there actually could be three....... but you ignored it then.... and now bring it up as deflection from my question above...... which is the question about the hitting of the jackpot billions of times every second. 

And it poses a question....which needs to be answered.   

Do you not see that is what evolution is : hypothesis...... more and more hypothesis to run away from the thought of intelligent design......... until its arguments become ridiculous? Do you not see that if aliens evolved in some other universe hypothetically they would have to travel here to seed here?   This is the reason why string theory with its 23 universes came to be.....cosmologists are trying to run away from intelligent design.  They want to create  more universes where diversity could possibly create more opportunity for spontaneous life....... because they realize the math is not realistic for spontaneous life when one has only one universe.

2 hours ago, AlanF said:

Your prejudice is showing. Prejudice created by your ignorance of Evolution created by knowing nothing but the misinformation found in Watchtower literature.

Again you make assumptions - not very logical reasoning from you. I get my information from science magazines. 

17 hours ago, AlanF said:

giant squid

We ignore your dogmatic comment and go on to your idea that predators need to eat other creatures such as squid or plankton.  This is true.  But diet has nothing to do with the level of tameness of an animal or its  co-existence with others.

I have seen footage of animals which co-habit in the same home which were natural predators before. In Africa we have many examples of this. 

Not all animals are natural predators. Necessity and generations of "memory" is shared. Young leopards learn from their mothers how to hunt.

Some learned behaviours can be unlearned.  While I have seen a tiger kill a lion, I have also seen footage when a whole lot of different animals including tiger, lions etc. shared the same barn at night. 

48 minutes ago, AlanF said:

Demanding answers from me when you continue ignoring my rejoinders to yo

Well I ignore insults and look for substance, which I am sad to say I have not yet had evidence of.   Yes I do demand proof.....  If you claim to be so logical and scientific  then you must provide evidence...... You throw down the gauntlet and then make side-isues the main point .....  

I already know what your next rejoinder is going to be - ------  so don't bother.

57 minutes ago, AlanF said:

Totally ignorant statement. More Dunning-Kruger from you.

Too quick to call people names when you have no answer.  ..... Please prove the flaw in the bottom statement I made..... 

1 hour ago, Arauna said:

If you hit the jackpot more than 10 times in a row to have a BIg positive outcome (to win a million to get on top of the pile) - you will start to wonder if the system was rigged in your favour......  Now imagine - you hit the jackpot with every small mutation (millions every second) for 500 billion years....

57 minutes ago, AlanF said:

Wrong. He never said that. The movie Expelled, which created that lie, has been thoroughly debunked.

I never saw the movie 'expelled' but saw the actual debate wherein Dawkins said  that aliens seeded life on earth. This just proves that atheism is a religious cult because this is covered up by apologists