Arauna

9 hours ago, Witness said:

There was a time whe

Living in the past again?  Now some of them also believed in the Trinity before becoming JWs. Why not go that far back?  

10 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

WERE moved from one congregation to another.

If a person was involved in wrongdoing  the elders cannot STOP them to move to a new location - only inform the new location. This (jws) is NOT a dictatorship...... a word you love to use. ..... ONE minute you judge us for being too harsh and the next that we are too soft? Heh?   Perfect logic? Want to eat pie on BOTH sides..... 

Would you like it if you committed fornication or  some other act if the entire act was announced to the congregation?   Where does mercy begin and harshness end?    Thank goodness humans are not the judge but Jehovah and his son.   If someone from outside congregation attends our meetings parents must watch their children.   It is not our place to decide  who is worthy of everlasting life.

Again: must we tell this person they are not welcome ?  Throw them out?  Especially when the top government officials are coverring up these kind of  crimes when people have money..... so NO redemption for the poor?   

It is EASY to judge and break down when your own sense if justice is aske. Jah sees it from both sides.

Study the laws that were in place and do not judge us by the current laws retroactively  but by the neglect of congress (regress) to not put proper laws in place. 

9 hours ago, Witness said:

you continue to revert back to entities outside of the organization to “compare” sins.  1 Pet 4:17

If this is the case, the organization is no better than any ot

You have the idea that JWs live in a protected bubble. What you do not realize is that  individuals can deviate from Jehovahs standards and bring dishonor to jehovah AND those who serve him -  just as you are doing with your OCD opus operandi of hate

1 hour ago, Witness said:

refuse to acknowledge the sins of God’s people

By your words you  judge ALL of gods people..... A very low percentage of witnesses committed child molestation - something which is very hard to prove. Few people know that even university professionals did not know for a very long time what to do about this problem. Most professionals for many years allowed the child to go back into the home of the perpetrator- did you know this history of the professionals at universities?

It is easy to judge.... something I have noticed you do all the time (it is the automatic OCD-mode).  Since you are always using scriptures in deceitful way...... here is one for you...... 

James:  " the tongue represents a world of unrighteousness among our body members, for it defiles all the body and sets the whole course of life on fire, and it is set on fire by Ge·henʹna.  ...... Stop speaking against one another, brothers. Whoever speaks against a brother or judges his brother speaks against law and judges law. Now if you judge law, you are not a doer of law but a judge. "

58 minutes ago, 4Jah2me said:

massive data base of Child

You are talking about the massive database of 1200 persons which happened from the years 1950's until present day?  About 70 years?  

There were NO laws in place in most countries until 1980s...... this was a taboo subject is most countries and there was no legislation in place. Most organizations that worked with children just turned a blind eye - there is no proof of them doing anything!

JWs kept databases to inform other congregations of problems - so suspected perpetrators could not move from congregation to congregation.  They were the only organization to do this-  and they are the ones who are denegraded for this and received media focus...... . Other organizations working with children did NOTHING.  More than 2000 organizations were asked about procedures during the Australian enquiry - but enemies of JWs only focus on JW statistics because they kept them......

By the way - the last legislation was passed in 2003- if I remember correctly.  This made it easier in court to get a conviction. Before this date the young child could be cross-examined in court in front of the perpetrator! 

9 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

taught

I learnt it in girl scouts too!  We were taught not to suck out the poison if you had any cut or open wound in the mouth or cavity......... lol...  they were very thorough.

8 hours ago, Jack Ryan said:

You sir, can kiss my ass and fuck off, I’m

Now those few words tell me you hate all goodness or decency.  We understand fully why you hate JWs.   There is no respect and logic in the cesspit where those words were thought up.

7 hours ago, Jack Ryan said:

Google

As I said before: eight old men who never personally touched a child (actually too innocent  to comprehend how wicked people can be - too good for this world), mentioned in court documents while people like Epstein who had 37 cases against him in 2007 got off because the FBI covered up for him and went after the victims. A plea bargain made without the victim's lawyers informed.

All Epstein's workers who knew what was going on since 2007, all his high-up friends and his girlfriend who coached the girls - NOTHING!   New cases in England as well where rape gangs raped young girls - covered up.

What does that tell you about the condition of the world when the real unscrupulous predators go off free and the innocent who do NOT condone this, are accused.   

People like you - who just go after JWs- get so much joy out of this......... but this tells me personally that when good is bad and bad is good, we are ever closer to Armageddon.

Just a little while longer and the wicked will be no more....... thanks to Jehovah, Jesus is the judge.

6 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

this

I think the christendom churches mentioned this a lot.  Some elder could have mentioned it in  a talk if he quoted secular magazines..... but I do not recall hearing of this in WT magazines.

22 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

But no, GB = dictatorship.

I have a feeling that you would view any instruction as a dictatorship.  Do you view the instructions from Jehovah as a dictatorship? Especially on the laws he views as something we cannot compromise  on?

The EU and UN intends to bring in a surveillance system similar to China.  If this does come to fruition you will then really understand what a dictatorship truly is and not bandy the word around so easily.

18 hours ago, JW Insider said:

Their concern was that it would set a poor example to appoint

My brother, the analytical chemist and toxicologist (researcher), went to prison for 3 years because he refused to assist the government in secret with poison to kill dissidents.  He later did research in metallurgy, and then programmed computers  for scientific projects.

He wanted a break from programming and took a job in research with L'oreal cosmetics.  Research is his first love.  After a while the company started to pressure him to do a doctorate they needed. He resigned......  He would have loved to do it but realized it was a bad example to his sons and the congregation. 

But in my experience, I have seen the blessings that come from sacrifice done in faith.  Just remaining strong in the truth is a blessing some do not really appreciate.

University education is now a trap, especially with the new humanities.  I lost one of my best friends who did a masters in this newfangled social engineering sciences - He was like a son to me.  He is now apostate and I have not seen him for a few years.   The heartbreak of this made me realize the pitfalls of higher education anew.

14 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

why would I, or you, be occupied with idea how only Me or You are in position of having best Bible knowledge  in comparison to some other religious group who also think how they know the Bible (better than others)??

 

Just to mention one thought: churches teach the immortality of the soul - so even if they profess that they believe in the sacrifice of Jesus ..... they do not teach that Jesus "really" died. The bible says Jesus put his "soul" in death ...... he did not exist at all for 3 days but   after 3 days jehovah resurrected him with immortality. Jehovah  gave him immortality as a reward for his faithfulness.  He was the first to receive immortality.  

I just want you to think how important it is that one must understand the death of Jesus to call yourself a Christian. I can bombard you with many scriptures to prove the above truth to you but I do not think this forum  is the place to do it.

The same goes for the teachings about the Jehovah' s name, the future kingdom of God etc.  These CORE teachings of truth are not adjusted. Other things regarding prophecy, better understanding of illustrations etc time related teachings, have been adjusted..... but the core teachings - which make us totally different to all other religions  - is core teachings of truth from the bible.

Hindus, Buddhists, Islam, and most other religions teach the immortality of the soul........ which is a lie from satan. Its origins come from ancient Babylon in teachings of the "underworld". Some of this has led to the teaching that people will burn forever in a literal fire because the soul cannot be destroyed..... it is immortal.   But the bible says: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.  Ezekiel 18:4. King James. 

On 11/14/2019 at 6:55 AM, Witness said:

You're kidding, right?

We were talking about modern times.  I should have remembered you always revert back  to the past.

The GB are 'now' very careful to not infer anything which can be interpreted as a date for Armageddon because of the maliciousness of enemies who dig up things to accuse. 

20 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

they why do the GB 'allow' JW's to accept fractions of HUMAN BLOOD ?

The bible talks about blood (whole blood).  So when it comes to fractions,  it is a personal choice.  There are governments/states which are already making it mandatory (UN-driven) to get certain vaccinations - which by the way also supports the pharmaceutical industrial  complex. In some countries they can take your children away if you break this vaccination law.

Vaccination is a contentious issue and opposers to it will soon become marked individuals as we get closer to Armageddon..... and governments, under UN control, more controlling. Why is it contentious?  Some vaccinations have human fetus tissue in it.....and  fractions of white blood cells are used in some anti-venom (snake) preparations etc.  So it can become a quagmire of regulations to regulate each product. The mature Christian will have to learn to discern. The GB will not become like the pharisees who tried to interpret more than the written word from God they had received. 

13 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

general, many people don't go to vote. I

They do not vote because of indifference etc.  We are actively supporting only a future government of God under Jesus.  Ambassadors for a foreign government do not get involved in the host countries' politics but only represents his own government.  

We are envoys for god's government only and hence stay out of the secular politics. Our reasons for neutrality is not indifference, laziness or any other reason.  This is why we do not fight in foreign wars.  We are citizens of a future government and learning and adhering to the laws of this future government.

Soon we will face persecution for this stance.  Jesus was murdered because the religious leaders saw him as a political threat. They said : if everyone follows this man they will come and take our country away.  They obviously supported the dissidents against Rome in their day.

4 hours ago, JW Insider said:

Jesus' instructions to the 7 congregations was never about waiting for a governing body of apostle

Thank you for this reply. I showed it to a bible student. 

To add a thought:  by this time,  most apostles had died and congregations had to learn to be more mature and function on their own. Many of the issues encountered by early congregations such as adherance to the law were resolved by the GB in Jerusalem.  Now they had to keep out apostacy (which was already present especially the Greek philosophy / influence in Greek congregations. Worship of individuals, or following has always been an inclination of some.....and John warns about this.

Yet, individual responsibility - as you brought out- is prime.

9 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

the Workbook. 

I came in the truth 45 years ago while a young student in Africa (lived there for 45 years). I have worked and lived also in USA (15 years), England, Sweden and now retired in Republic of Georgia. I worked as a reporter and after that in PR for several companies.

I find most Americans (not all) myopic and inward looking and entitled. What I learnt in my travels is that 'cultures' give people certain values that they cling to - which can make them difficult and unadaptable.  And this is also true of people in the truth. Personality traits and values which are so ingrained that if the person is not prepared to work on it themself. Hence, they can make it almost impossible for Jehovah to work with them or for them to fit in. So some people - as a result of this, think the elders and GB are controlling.

If they look closely - they will see the fault is their own.  Sweeping statements such as  "workbook " wich seem to be a mandatory way for preaching  shows an ignorance of the truth. It may come from deepseated rebellious inclination to any authority. 

I work with youth in the fieldservice all the time. While they do not have the experience to talk off the cuff - I always do.   They follow the prescribed workbook ideas perfectly and do well enough but they can also see how my life experience, additional knowledge and knowledge of other countries,  can help a person with small talk and much else .  

I watch politics all over the world and understand how large corporations work. Most of the criticism I see against GB comes from the inexperience of not understanding that the GB deal with a different set of laws in each country and had to learn the hard way that American law is not universal law....... and laws are not applied the same everywhere. 

IF I were a GB member I would also have given the same preaching suggestions to new or shy people and encourage them to stay on topic so they can at least have a positive experience.  I am here in a foreign language congregation and the repetitive field presentations in the "workbook" help those who are learning a new language. A good question to always ask is this: what would I have done if I was a GP member?   

OLDER  members who have heard the basics over the years at meetings definitely  like new ideas to meditate or "chew" on. So  I usually prepare and answer to this effect.... which usually gives young or newer ones in the congregation incentive to do more research.

Recently we had a section on cleanliness.  Why?   Well,  I had a student/study from a very poor part of the world. Her children used to smell, she had no sheets on her beds, etc. Etc. They came to meetings this way.  We had to teach her these things.   Some countries  have merely the bare necessities - they do not use sheets...or have enough water to wash. So never be arrogant and view the GB as being "prescribing", silly or harsh.  How to feed your family in a healthy way with very little money is not a subject fit for USA but very important in other parts of the world.

In Africa,  we have terrible practices which come from spiritism and superstition..... people sometimes revert back to old ideas..... so one has to speak to these persons and maybe discipline them.  Is this harshness or ensuring that Jehovahs standards are kept?  One always finds the personality type which is not easily adaptable.  If I tell a white person that they will share the paradise with a black person and they don't like it?  Who is closing the future hope of living in a paradise for themselves? The GB, the elders, me or the persons own bad attitude? 

I am a natural rebel, could never follow rules and still hate rules. Dont like it when elders use a suggestion from GB to make it into a rule.  I have also seen them being corrected for doing this...... On the other hand, I also do realize the necessity to have a mild spirit, a yielding personality - not quick to criticise those who try to serve jehovah to the best of their ability. BUT I have also worked on obtaining a strong sense if what is right or wrong morally.....so I can smell an amorral  rat or thought quickly.  

Do not be misled- I see secular attitudes on this forum all the time. Where brothers and sisters have lost the ability to see danger where it is lurking because they have become too secularised in their thinking.  After all?  Was the test of Adam and Eve not the choosing of their own morality (right and wrong which affects every situation in life) and the  rejecting of Jehovah's good and bad?    Never think you are "sophisticated" or "reasonable"  or "scholarly" when you adopt secularized opinions......and those in opposition to the bible.

The GB and elders are there to keep suchlike ones from not influencing the flock.....

6 hours ago, Anna said:

associate degree is only for 2 years and is more akin to a trade certificate,

Not the same thing. Many degrees are generic and useless. A two year technical trade can get you a good job....and salary. There are trades that can take 5 years or more.. depending in the field.......and level of mastery. 

There are countries which allow the person to work in the trade while studying for his specific job skills e.g. making tools.

Trades provide skills for people to open their own business which I think gives the person an independence from a boss. Also,  a way for an individual to choose their own working hours while earning better money for the same number of hours  in a generic office job with a degree.  Think of a plumber, electrician etc etc.

The point is that people say we are against higher education.  We are not. Higher education includes trades because one can do it after 12 years of school education.  There are high schools which do prepare one for higher education.  My major in high school was music which was equivalent to first year university.  Technical high schools do the same.

21 minutes ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

different people became conscientious objectors, as there were who became soldiers.

Agreed, but they are not cowards to go up against a powerful machine as a government.  Many people in Germany hated the Nazis but went along with the propaganda and went to war because they were the true sheep/cowards and were afraid to face prison. 

5 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

they have no 'proof' of their claim, why can't they just say "We don't know" 

The fact is- you have no proof they are wrong. 

It is 105 years since the  kingdom government under Jesus started to rule. It is not many years, if one considers overlapping generations.

They do not fall into the trap of giving dates......... but I can lay my head on a block that this generation may stretch up to 120 years.  There is a precedent in the bible..... think about it.

4 hours ago, JJJ-AUSTRALIA said:

Each person will have to choose if they will vote. !

This will soon be so. Governments will clamp down on ANY organization which enforces biblical law... I see you do not get it.  ..the tide against ALL Christian' laws/principles  is turning.

It will be up to the individual to decide to vote, not take a blood transfusion, or not condone unchristian behaviour,  by cutting association with those who approve LGBT or any other prohibition imposed God.  You do not get it - this is the 'beginning ' of governments enforcing their new moral laws on all Christian's and especially those who stand out for their obedience to laws which other christians do not care about.  In England and Scandinavia people are going to prison or taken into custody for talking against Islam and LGBT - soon it will include voting, blood transfusions and shunning.... and much more........ the world will take away freedom of choice and impose their humanist/satanic laws on us under the guise of human rights.

18 hours ago, JJJ-AUSTRALIA said:

that the religious doctrine of Jehovah's Witnesses is against blood transfusion cannot amount to a threat to "public health".

Why should a  ignorant  office worker in some government department decide we are 'extreme' people and a 'threat to public health' when the God of the universe tells us to abstain from blood?

The true evidence is that transfusions are in reality a great threat to public health with all the fatal diseases which can be transmitted such as Hepatitis C, AIDS, syphilis.... just to mention three which come to mind.

They greatest threat of blood transfusion is anaphylactic shock - which is never put on death certificates as cause of death - and in reality is the greatest cause of death after surgery.... By third day after the surgery it starts manifesting and then the death certificate usually says "complications after surgery".  

So, in the final analyses it is about obedience to jehovah.  If one believes he really exists - will one deliberately ignore his laws ?  ......and risk losing his Holy Spirit? 

What you guys here do not get is that the risk is high when one deliberately disobeys God........ one risks getting an unapproved mental state.... and then it does not matter if you are shunned by others.  Your own mental state will shun you....... because you will become an opposer and be shunned for a brazen attitude by breaking some other laws of God as well. 

You may become like some people here on this forum who gives each other silly likes when they find material which condemns JHws while they (the JWs) are in the situation of trying to obey God.  I bet some of the opposers here will feel justified when our persecution starts and revel in our being designated "extreme" and even enjoy our persecution.   God predicted it would happen.

That is the mental state you get when you disobey jehovah and think you can make your own rules as you go along and condone hate against those trying to obey the laws of God.

Even if governments force their laws and morality on us and outlaw shunning.......(which I predict they will do in the near future) , obedience to the laws of God and his personal approval of the individual will still remain the factor in final approval  and  opportunity for life everlasting.

On 11/10/2019 at 1:29 AM, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

because they are naturally stupid, and or cowards.

Not true. Many soldiers have deployed and later became Witnesses. It is a "choice" to not kill others. My brother was tortured in prison because he refused to assist the apartheid government to kill people. The brothers treated badly in Korean prisons for refusal to learn war are not cowards.

And he is not stupid either.  I will not go into his academic credentials credentials before he became a witness

18 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

GB to start thinking about basic human rights, as currently ther

Well each person will have to choose if they will vote. The bible clearly indicates that Babylon the great is religion which is bedfellows with politics. Christian's are warned to get out of Babylon the great.

This will become a test for witnesses in the time of end since jesus was also accused on a false political charge of sedition. Non- voting is the reason governments will hate us as is our stance to refuse to go to war. 

This is the factor which allows for us to be a truly peaceful people all over the world with a self-sacrificing love for each other.

12 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

didn't hear they expected to be Kings and Priests  :)

Yep, so you acknowledge they do not really know the bible. 

On 11/12/2019 at 7:24 PM, Witness said:

think Srecko was referring to a higher school to learn a trade. 

In most countries one goes to a technical college to learn a trade - so it is higher education.

On 11/9/2019 at 6:40 AM, Tom Henry said:

Can certain past understanding be revised, yes they can. Especially to accommodate what is happening in the world.

 

Further examination with respect to understanding, the

Agreed.  The clay and iron mentioned in the feet was correctly understood before....... but the current acrimony between conservatives who are the far right  and the far left (which has been high-jacked by extreme new ideas) is irreconcileably divided.   This is happening in Canada, USA, Europe, Australia and UK. One can gain better insight into a situation as time passes. 

The UN Agenda 21 and Agenda 2030 gives me deeper insight regarding their ( UNs) future plans for the world.  How they are forcing LGBTQ onto most societies by means of UNESCO is more evidence that we are heading very quickly to collapse of morality.  Their plans for the environment gives us insight how far things have progressed regarding the ozone of the earth and biosphere.  176 nations have given over their autonomy to the UN by means of these agreements.  It will just be a matter of time for them to claim they can bring peace and security.

On 11/9/2019 at 4:42 PM, Srecko Sostar said:

WT publications giving advice to members not to go to University to get "higher education". Instead, they say, it is enough to finish Elementary school or some Higher school to be able to get some job that will provide you basic material status.

What a blatant lie.   They have always encouraged men to do a trade.  With the tons of generic degrees now being pumped out at universities that are mainly producing useless degrees and students with life-long debt - it seems they were right all along.

Germany has a strong economy due to such a large portion of its population having technical trade qualifications.  

On 11/9/2019 at 7:07 PM, Srecko Sostar said:

They have to wait for JHVH. Just be calm and wait, nothing more. God will repay them all injustice.

What do think of a country where Doctors can be forced to do abortions, do LGBT surgery on young children and commit euthanasia  against their so-called conscience! 

I am sure they will find us liable - they are instruments of satan these days. When they go against Jehovah's laws,  we obey jehovah.   

Soon we will be facing persecution from these guys as predicted.  We are living in the last days. Soon they will take you to court if you refuse to sleep with someone.  I read about a case where a transgender wanted to sleep with a man. He called it a "hate crime"  when the man refused..... a very new morality will be forced on us.

"4,136 Christians were killed for faith-related reasons. On average, that's 11 Christians killed every day for their faith." — Open Doors, World Watch List 2019.

More than 245 million Christians around the world are currently suffering from persecution. — Open Doors, World Watch List 2019.

 4,136 Christians were killed for faith-related reasons. On average, that's 11 Christians killed every day for their faith." — Open Doors, World Watch List 2019.

More than 245 million Christians around the world are currently suffering from persecution. — Open Doors, World Watch List 2019.