TrueTomHarley

For the record, Ann, when I reproduced FakeJW's words, I did not edit out his specific reviling of you. Perhaps I should have. I apologize for that. One gets carried away sometimes. ("kumquat": better wash that mouth of yours out with soap! see what you have unleashed?)

They may not be tap-dancing to your tune, but they appear to be doing not that badly overall. Yes. I positively hate it when they make me look like a donkey. Before speaking with certain characters, one must concede that they will have the final word. It is either that or trading barbs with them for the rest of one's life, for they will never ever ever ever give up. And when they run out of things to say, they will simply recycle their first remark. Nor am I necessarily done with that thread. You are not the only yo-yo, you know. It is among the reasons Bro Morris agrees with the Bible and says speaking with apostates is not a fine thing.

Because they are plagued with guilt over being so smart and wish to level the playing field.

No matter how many vile filthy despicable horrendous nasty ugly scandalous scurrilous things Foreigner may say about AlanF......there will always be a few he forgot to mention and I will have to help him out. C'mon. Poor, lowly, salt-of-the-earth Foreigner, disadvantaged in every way compared to AlanF, who has likely seen hardship that Alan cannot imagine, contributes to this discussion more meaningfully than I - and Alan slams, bullies, mocks, insults him until he finally loses it and launches a tirade of bad words - and I am to be put out over the bad words? Okay, I am, somewhat. But after listening to Alan, Foreigner is like Robert Frost. Full Disclosure: I am (GASP!) @allensmith28!!!

Do you mean to tell me this has all been much ado about nothing? @Shiwiiiand his friends have been blowing up this balloon as if experiencing orgasm for months, even years. Even JTR, who now acts as though he knew it all along, did all he could to suggest the Witness organization was the very Mecca of pedophilia. And now, it all comes to this? JW children are the safest of all? Can it really be? I need some smart people to weigh in on this.

See? The problem is not with Africans or anyone else currently coming to the U.S. The damage was done long ago. Maybe the current crop can teach the one with 40-60K tenure some manners, or better yet, some humility.

I think that has typically been the case of persons anywhere - JW or not, religious or atheist. Historically, people have not been in a hurry to air their dirty laundry. Reality TV has changed much of that. Probably also a factor is that more and more families are absolute train wrecks and people are just acclimating to it. The very reason there is a phrase called "skeletons in the closet" is that persons once succeeded in keeping them there. These days people have become accustomed to them stampeding like cattle through Dodge City. Is it George Bernard Shaw who said: "if you cannot get rid of the skeletons in your closet, see if you can make them dance"? I think I would not challenge that Witnesses have had a greater adjustment than many in learning to let those skeletons roam, since their reputation is that of applying Bible morality and they are reluctant to see that reputation tarnished. But, as you say, if there were one per congregation per two-decade period (your figures - not mine) that would add up. What will happen will happen. It is the classic example of getting slammed for doing the right thing - investigating abusers for punishment and protection of other congregations. Have mistakes been made? I wouldn't doubt it. @Shiwiii is wetting himself pointing to one of them. (to what degree it is a mistake, or if it is a mistake at all, I do not know. Suffice it to say, however, that we got stuck with a real rotter, who caused a lot of harm) Could Shiwiii do it better? THAT is an entirely different question. And it is one impossible to answer because, to my knowledge, no one else has ever tried. Everyone else has a policy, usually through neglect, but perhaps also by design, of knowing as little about their congregants as possible. That way, you can't get left holding the bag if anyone is outed. Every time you turn around, a pedophile is outed. Never do we hear of his religious affiliation. It is our own fault for attempting to keep a morally clean congregation - a "people for his name." Pedophiles are as common as hens' feathers - we have certainly learned that. It is even more so when the statute of limitations is forever. Anthony Morris said it best: we were all a little naive when pedophilia burst upon the scene.

It is true that this one has in some ways blown up in our faces. (Let us leave unchallenged, for the moment, your 'thousands.') In a way it is an byproduct of doing what the Bible tells Christians to do: keep the congregation clean. Reports of wrongdoing (of all types) are looked into with a view of applying discipline to the proper degree and, in the case of pedophiles, ensuring that one cannot slip out of one congregation and into another undetected - as they can in any other church. The "practical" solution, though it means shortchanging the God who expects a clean people, is to do what most do: Preach to them on Sunday and let that be the end of it. If they apply it, they apply it. If they don't, they don't. That way when a pervert is nabbed, they are never associated with any particular religion (unless they are clergy), since the church's policy, like that of Sergeant Shultz, is "I know notttthhhhhiiiiiiggggggggggggg!" I'll take Jehovah's Witnesses any day, even IF their efforts to keep their congregations clean has resulted in some legal trouble.

This is all very good as far as it goes. However it is all selfish if it stops there. It is all ME ME ME - "what do I get out of it." As it turns out, it is not about us. It is about the sanctification of God's name. We benefit as that sanctification takes place. But we are not the centerpiece of God's attention. Moreover, by refusing to get "practical," one easily sees how your brand of Christian becomes part and parcel and cause of what makes life for many today a "hell on earth." Yes, it is good to sidestep that bit of "ridiculousness." Paper it over with a "God works in mysterious ways" as your brand of Christian slaughters one another and other populations in war! No wonder people go atheist! Jehovah's Witnesses embrace all of what you say, as a part of the truth. But they also know that there are yet greater principles at play and they know the application of Bible principles now brings major benefits. It is not enough to wait for 'heaven' to make us all nice. We can learn to be nice now. A good place to start is to not dive into the divisiveness of this world's politics.

Hey, does anyone remember that Twilight Zone episode where the driver strikes and kills the kid? -obviously and accident. His wife remarks over dinner how horrible it is that the unknown driver did not turn himself in, and is puzzled by her husband's agitation. His car begins to haunt him. It wakes him up out of a sound sleep with blaring horn. (as a child, it was spooky as all get-out!) He tells his wife the next morning that he will walk to work, since the car has been acting funny. She is amazed to see the garage door open, and the car follows him - he panics and falls. The car stops inches from crushing his head. The passenger door opens. He gets in and it drives him presumably to the police station to confess. The car is the avenger of blood!!

I could not agree more. Punctuation, however, is a different thing - for that is deliberate. hehehehe :))))))))) (I say - 'Go for it!' - the moron) I know of only one person who does that. And it is not Foreigner.

I also notice that Harrison Ford has taken up flying again in Trabzon, Turkey.

Maybe we finally have this City of Refuge thing down pat after yesterday's study article. The way the Law had it, the accidental manslayer had to flee to one of the six cities of refuge, where his case would be heard. If the 'avenger of blood' (closest relative of the deceased) killed him before he got there, he was guiltless. He might simply have lost it. Or he might figure there wouldn't have been an accident if the fellow had been more careful or not neglected safety. (aspects of safety on the job were also considered, as in 'What can we learn from this?') BUT some have said that he could not do otherwise. He MUST put the killer to death. It is not his prerogative to overlook or forgive, because principles greater than just a matter between two humans come into play. Still, it is hard to believe that a man, bereaved himself, would HAVE TO put to death someone, maybe a close friend or even a relative, who had accidentally taken a life. How does the following work as a compromise? The killer MUST flee to one of the cities of refuge - that much is clear. Why couldn't the avenger of blood take his sweet time in his 'pursuit' - or even walk there with him, if he was really a close chum? Our minds are skewed by the picture in the Watchtower decades ago of the manslayer running for all he is worth with the avenger hot on his heals. Who is to say it was always (or even usually) like that? The death was an accident. The city of refuge was a place where one might live a normal, productive and rewarding life. It was not a prison. But suppose the manslayer refused to go there, insisting he didn't have to, insisting he was 'guiltless' because he didn't mean to do what he did? THEN he would be put to death, not just for the accidental killing itself, or even primarily, but for the greater crime of thumbing his nose at God, for it is his arrangement. Put to death BY WHO becomes secondary. Maybe the avenger of blood. But if the avenger simply couldn't find it within himself to do it, it is hard to believe there would not be a posse or something to help him out or even take it off his hands. Of course, if the real sin is thumbing one's nose at God, the avenger would probably be incensed over THAT and would possibly 'rise to the occasion' on that count, whereas the death itself he would be willing to forgive. Does it work?

No no no @Foreigner - you misunderstand me. You have called @AlanF a pengabo. That means you and I are friends. Nobody thinks Alan is a big jerk more than me. I was being sarcastic writing what I did and you didn't realize that. I am sorry for that. It is my fault. Look at my posts. I have posted two in a row which are nothing but making him look bad by his own mouth - quoting insult after insult of his that he has hurled at other people. He cannot speak without being nasty. And I am just getting started. There are still pages of his taunts I can draw upon. It is unusual that someone is so ugly as he - he is even nasty to you when he says you played "the race card." You can play it all you want as far as I am concerned. Okay? You don't like him. I don't like him. Nobody with any sense likes him. When I write I use humor. I use exaggeration. I will make up stories. Sometimes I use sarcasm. It is easy to misunderstand if you are mostly familiar with another language. I told a joke and maybe you thought I was making fun of you. I wasn't. It was just a good joke and I remembered it after I looked up penjango. I had never heard that word before. Let me tell you who some of the people here are. You said Ann and I run this site. Neither of us do, though we both comment a lot. I can't stand Ann. It is not personal - personally maybe I would be okay with her. But here she does everything she can to run down Jehovah's Witnesses and their organization. Does she run down even God, like Alan does? I am not sure. I have to go back and check. But we are not friends. And we don't run the website. The person who runs this site is The Librarian. I am pretty sure he is a Witness, but you can't know anything for sure on the internet. Many people, and apostates are among them, work hard to hide who and what they are, so you never know for sure. Even The Librarian is not the chief owner. The chief owner is Admin, and he may be someone else who comments a lot on other topics, but it is a pure guess on my part and so I will not say. Proverbs 6: 16-19 tells about things God hates: Last on the list of seven is: "And anyone sowing contentions among brothers." I never argue with brothers. I will quit a discussion before I do that. Even with non-Witnesses I am nice and avoid arguing. But I am not nice to apostates. At first I am somewhat, until their motives, methods and persistence become manifest. Then, sometimes I will seek to verbally kneecap them. It is not really Christian that I try to do this. But if I am going to be disobedient to counsel and hang where these guys freely roam and launch attacks, I must grant myself that concession. It will help you if you know that nobody here is a typical Witness. Most are not Witnesses at all. Many are apostates who once were Witnesses but are no longer. Many here who are Witnesses do not hesitate to correct God's organization, something I would never presume to do. That at least makes them atypical Witnesses. The typical Witness of Jehovah will be obedient to counsel and not hang out here. Some will come once or twice to explore, but as soon as they see there are many here that hate Witnesses and their organization, yet they are still given a platform to speak, they will leave. They will think of the Bible verses that says one should not hang out with such persons. Okay? Here they do nothing but argue, and at best, you might see who is better with the head in this argument or that. But it is the heart that counts. No argument with the head can show what is in the heart. We are not enemies, Foreigner. I don't want you to think that. I do not denigrate your writing skills. I do not think I am better than you or anyone else. I think well of you that you would even try communicating in a second language. I cannot do it. I am sorry to confuse you. I didn't mean to.

I had never heard this word. I looked it up, of course, because I will not tolerate any disrespect for AlanF. It is not our place to talk back to him. It is his place to tell us, and all we can do is just hope he can keep the insults under reasonable control. It is a Spanish word. It means - well, you know. But I did not see that it specifically has connotations of race. Any background might produce one. Within reason, one should not be put down for playing "the race card." Lord knows, they have had it played on them often enough. Except, from just a quick scan, I don't see where race and pendejo have anything to do with each other. Is it white trash? It seems that it could just as well be brown trash. Oh - and the word reminds me of the joke I told Megan - who always likes such things - after I heard it from someone else. "Megan, I've got a good one for you!" I said when I spotted her. But at that moment, her 15 year old son, walked out of the rest room (we were cleaning the Kingdom Hall) and I hesitated. "Oh, he's heard far worse!" she said, having no idea what I was going to say. Q: What do you call a person who begs who for advice, and then goes off and does the exact opposite? A: An askhole.

Here Shiwiii has revealed the reason that people become Jehovah's Witnesses. Almost to the person, Witnesses will say they had questions - many questions - hard-hitting questions, some of them. Nobody took offense at them. Instead, it was shown how the scriptures answered their questions. So why does he scream foul when I ask him a simple one? There is nothing sinister about the question. It is a question most non-religious people would ask. He comes here to incessantly criticize the doers, insisting that "coming to Jesus" solves everything. So: It is not a trap, Shiwiii. It is a simple question. Why do you not answer it?

Several generations are pictured. They overlap in Chrome. They fail to do so in Firefox. Simple as that.

This remark is addressed to Allen, I know, not me - but my current nefarious scheme is to change all URLs - even those of AlanF!! - in all posts to point to my blog. My goal is to one day place $1.00 into the outstretched hand of @The Librarian (the old hen) as I stop for the red light getting off the expressway. #willblogforfood hehehehe :))))))))

I am having no trouble seeing them. Has the problem been fixed? Or do I just have special powers? The pics are good, too.

The secret is to ignore all such fine print as @The Librarian takes us all to the cleaners.

My "game" is asking you a question. Lord knows you ask enough: You never did tell the practical benefits of people "coming to Jesus." What are they? Particularly when some will side with Trump and some with Hillary?

You never did tell the practical benefits of people "coming to Jesus." What are they? Particularly when some will side with Trump and some with Hillary. Thus far you have only criticized the doers.

What are the practical manifestations of people 'coming to Jesus?' Why do some who have come to Jesus love Trump? Why do some who have come to Jesus love Hillary, and hate Trump? Perhaps you could convince @AlanF he should come to Jesus.

Who is the other game in town? Show me. Tell me how you know. Tell me what they have to show for themselves. JTR will doubtless follow you and he'll make a lot less trouble here. Seriously. They way he carries on, we would all be pleased to be rid of him. Show him the other game. Don't just say that the doers aren't doing it right. Show him someone else who is doing it right. Show us what they are doing. Be specific.

As I recall, there was also something about the composition of the driveway, too. It was not the ordinary blacktop. and......the house number.....was........607! Take it, guys! I'm off this thread!