Srecko Sostar

amazing method :)) Did their women know and support such inventive idea ? Did four of them ironing clothes in this manner to other people in Bethel too, and to their wife's especially? What were the reactions/responds/ from bro/sis? Did Bethel elders, Committee introduce this as standard for ironing and reject electric machines? Did they buy bricks of all shapes and of various weights, or consider to buy some concrete bricks? This stories come to be LEGENDS? And this is how false come to be true :))) Thanks for this stories Tom.

I have nothing against nice accommodation. Think, about giving Vow of Poverty for living inside modern building that cost millions of $. Those who living and preaching in poor countries are closer to such Vow, i think :))

Internet sources. NOT JW explanation: 1) Furthermore, another perspective motivating people to take the vow of poverty is the sheer inequality in the world. Rather than simply acknowledging the existence of poverty, individuals who take the vow gain first-hand experience, an experience that may better equip them to aid the poor in the future. 2) A vow, taken by members of some religious orders to renounce all personal property; everything they possess being used for the common good. JW explanation: What is involved in serving under the simple Vow? It means that those in special full- time service have formally entered into an arrangement in which they agree to expend their full- time efforts toward the advancement of a religious goal. It also means that they are doing so without any expectation of being paid, as one would be in a secular setting. Members can enter into this arrangement because the Order sees to it that each member's basic necessities of life are cared for. Although the term "poverty" is used in the Vow, this does not mean that the Governing Body is asking you to relinquish ownership in property that you now possess or that you may acquire in the future. Rather, this expression means that you agree to forego the expectation of being paid for your endeavors while serving in the Order and that you also agree to not seek gainful employment while serving in the Order. As those of you who have devoted many years to special full-time service can verify, this is the arrangement under which special full-time servants have been living for many years, even prior to the time when this arrangement was formally documented through the signing of a previous vow. Concerning point six of the Vow, sources of income other than work are not affected by being under this Vow. It does not pertain to income such as interest from bank accounts or bonds, dividends from stocks, rent received from property owned by the member, and other Page 4 of 4 income unrelated to present personal efforts. It does not apply to gifts, inheritances, or other unsolicited benefits, which a member of the Order may receive from time to time. Any of you who are receiving income from possessions are not required to turn these monies over to the Order, although you should be aware that (his income is no doubt subject to taxation. In summary, reading prayerfully and signing the Vow does not mean that you cannot own property or that you have determined to donate all your material possesions to the Order. Rather, it documents that you have agreed to serve Jehovah as a special full-time servant, serving in cooperation with others in the Order, without expectation of financial gain. and that you have determined to refrain from any gainful activity while in Jehovah's special full-time service. We are pleased to present you with this direction from the Governing Body and trust that this letter answers any questions you may have. However, please feel free to write to the branch office if you have any remaining inquiries.

In late 1990, i guess, i was in Vienna Bethel, had a little role in summer Convention Drama, so two or three days of recording. In that time they had one part of basement full of various sort of beer. I do not remember prices, it depends on what sort of beer in glass bottle (0,5 liter) you choose. But to us, from Croatia, that was very surprising. For some boys (brothers) gladly surprise. :))

"We are not inspired but we are guided" .... by Spirit (FireWater as would American Indians said in cowboy movies) Some Bethel people has rich relatives, renting apartments, houses, has some spared money from aside.... and similar. Vow of poverty is funny instrument, and why to apply that on people who has nothing? IF they really has nothing?! Why somebody who came to Bethel to work and is single and poor, has poor family, no real estate, no money, only clothes on him/her.... WHY would such person to be obligated to give Vow of Poverty?? What is purpose of such Vow? How looks like this WT "Vow"? What Bethel member promises-declare in that Vow? Mr Tony's coming to liquor store to buy so many bottles of strong beverage proves that he is mere imperfect human who running Corporations with other humans, similar to him. This showed how his job is hard sometimes and he need meaning to relax sometimes, and to drink glass of whiskey is helpful sometimes. Or to seat alone in bar seat with glass of Cognac is what man need sometimes, too. But bar is more expensive. So, in fact he spare money (donation or his own) by shopping in big market, in big package, on Sunday when prices are little down. :)))

Ups ..... :)) jumping high

People here are welcome to have strong attitude and beliefs. Well, we all are problems, not solutions. :)))

haha, you speaking as one elder after i send my Letter of dissociation to Betel. Elders try for months to arrange meeting with me by telephone contact, and not want to tell me why, that they will tell me on meeting (of course, reason was because i was put 2 post on my G+ profile with Critical Thoughts about GB). It is very Interesting fact how i stopped to go on meetings from 1 January 2015 and not giving reports about field service. Not single telephone call for some 6 months, to say simple hello or call for coffee - to show some "brotherly love" (which i probably would not accept anyway) but they could not even know my reaction in advance :)))), so they show some of their REAL faces. Not need to mentioned how one Betel elder try to arrange this meeting by telephone, with him and other elder and me, to discuss about "something" what made them worried (my 2 G+ posts). That make me sure how they Intentionally keek, peek, spy my internet activity and "preparing terrain for Judicial Committee ". But i "played my game" because of common knowledge about how such meetings with 2 and later with 3 elders would be. So, i made my letter, done verification of my Statement by Notary Public and in proper time for me i was sending/published it to JW members in ex congregation mostly and to Betel. And later via internet on some public forums, blogs. But why told you all this. Because your advice to not give hard time to my wife. In telephone call from Judicial Committee elders on the day they waiting/expecting me to come, and in the same week they received my Letter, because 2 of elders working in Betel so they was aware how i disf. myself few months earlier. Well, one elder made some sort of warning me to not making hard time to wife aka not to "persecute" her. I thought in my mind, oh dear god, you are the people who will shun and ignore me, you are the people who told congregation to destroy my Letter and to stop have anything with me, and now you have nerve to warn me to not make some trouble to her. HEHE, i am the one who TOLERATE you more than YOU tolerate others, and in this situation YOU are People who PERSECUTE me because of my decision to leave WTJWORG. Well TTH, if you will be in same situation to tell this words again, to someone else as advice/plead, Please, DO NOT. It looks funny, needlessly and somehow absurd, almost bizarre. WTJWORG is Organization who shows Extremism on this issue. You are not "extremist" in that sense.

Sincerely, I don't know how it is this days. Till 2015 nothing about similar activity in Croatia ever heard. Much sure it is the same today. My wife is JW but talking nothing about "spiritual" things, and that it is "normal" according to elders instructions :)))haha. And i don't ask. All is on internet anyway :)))) I only meet sometimes some old and new faces standing with publications while i am going through the town.

Old good charity works, volunteering. More work less talk, i agree!

It can be said how JW members generally reject the possibility that abuse occurs within the organization, and if that is a very rare case. On the other hand, they believe that the JHVH spirit will purify the organization in a way that will reveal to the elders the secret sins of such people and then they will expelled such from the congregation to remain congregation "clean". If the spirit of JHVH God reveals sins in WTJWORG, than the question arises as to, which spirit reveals the same sort of sins of people in the Catholic Church?

I am an amateur in all and each areas of life. But as I understand climate change issue, the causes can be found in astronomy processes and in anthropological processes. Scientists speak differently than the official doctrines of the JW Church. Eg. The JW Church says that the Flood (Noah's day) was a great, global climate change caused by the action of God (not human, not Universe aka Sun, Moon, Stars and similar). This great global change, according to this interpretation, was not caused by the action of mankind on the nature and life of the planet Earth, nor was it the result of some astronomical activity and/or normal processes in the very life of Earth itself. -precession of the Earth's axis (period of about 20,000 years) -changes in the inclination of the Earth's axis (period of about 40,000 years) -change the shape of the Earth's path around the Sun (period about 100,000 years) Not so long ago, JW claimed that every day of creation lasted 7,000 years. Some older JW still believe it, perhaps. A small release from a theme with an illustration of the dinosaurs: When did the dinosaurs live? The Bible describes sea and land animals as being created during the fifth and sixth days, or epochs, of creation. * (Genesis 1:20-25, 31) Thus, the Bible allows for the appearance and existence of dinosaurs over a lengthy period of time. What happened to the dinosaurs? The Bible does not comment on the disappearance of the dinosaurs. However, it does state that all things were created “because of [God’s] will,” so God clearly had a purpose for making dinosaurs. (Revelation 4:11) When that purpose was fulfilled, God allowed the dinosaurs to become extinct. - https://www.jw.org/hr/biblijska-ucenja/pitanja/dinosauri-u-bibliji/ In my early period of being JW it was normal to believe how Dinosaurs was died in Noah Flood. In those time was Normal Official Doctrine to believe how each Creation Period was 7 000 years. So, by such old WT Doctrinal logic, Dinosaurs was old about 14 000 years and all died in Great Flood. Not millions of years as Science was told people. Today, JW Church not denied any more how Earth can be old UNKNOWN PERIOD of YEARS. That in other words means how it is possible that Earth and Life on it was OLD for MILLIONS of years. Perhaps we can found few ideas, possibilities on climate and life on Earth. And how "predictions" and Interpretations on predictions by WTJWORG is just one of interpretations. What does this all have with involvement, participation of JW Church and their members in activity about Environment and Climate on Earth? :))

sorry for my haha to your post, but have to ask you, what "gender" issue have with this topic, and what my position on "gender" issue (if i have any position at all) have with this what i am thinking about JW and their passivity on climate movements in society?

In various degrees of responsibility. Normal statement, also this is true for many other non JW people. WT publications openly teaching members to not be active in any social, ......etc. involvement for Changing this World (only when freedom of speech and religion is issue) Sorry, but in this sort of "conclusion" you advocate and call for, how all JW Society, even in this State/Condition of existence (in all aspects of regulations that exist inside WTJWORG Organization) is the Only Group on Earth that is Imperfectly Perfect. Even (according to religious ideas based on WT publications) only worth to live on Earth. And how there would be no need for efforts to make the world we live in a better place. This is pretentious and belong to arrogant statement - in my opinion :))).

Although Jehovah’s Witnesses did not participate in the conference, they too are interested in the environment. Hundreds of them were involved in a special campaign in Paris to share their Bible-based hope of living on a pollution-free planet....that Jehovah’s Witnesses twice received a rating of Four Green Globes from the Green Building Initiative for their commitment to environmentally sustainable building design and construction for two new buildings at the Witnesses’ United States branch facilities in Wallkill, New York. - https://www.jw.org/en/jehovahs-witnesses/activities/ministry/sharing-bible-based-hope-cop21/ In 2011, Daniel Asamoah, a Circuit Overseer of Jehovah's Witness, had this to say about the topic of global warming, as reported by Ghana Web: "The Earth is running a fever; man cuts trees indiscriminately, there is loss of fertile agricultural land, toxic waste introduced into the environment, global warming, deforestation, oil spillages. One day, very soon God's Kingdom will come and interrupt, solve these problems and give us lasting relief." - https://www.newsmax.com/fastfeatures/christian-global-warming-religion-climate-change/2015/05/06/id/642823/ Jehovah’s Witnesses stand out as an outlier, advocating for environmental action... - https://ncse.com/blog/2015/05/evolution-environment-religion-0016359 In article: The Earth Has a “Fever”—Is There a Cure? - https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2008647 NOTHING is said that JW people actively contributing in effort to less pollution of Earth. Just prayer for Kingdom. Here we see how JW people generally stay on PREACHING about climate in connection to Their Hope. Building two buildings in US with donated money not shows global JW efforts and commitment to contribute in active programs made by scientist about this issue.

JW people often emphasize how old Israelite's were all educated and could read and write and nations around them are less educated. Question. What levels of education have existed at that time in the nation of Israel. Just to know read and write? Or, what was equivalent for education, in their time, we called today high school and university? Did elders of Israel congregation teaching young people /male and female/ not to educate self more in various knowledge's, that is not only spiritual aka religious? Did they talking to people; Israel Nation and State and Country is just temporary here on Earth, God will destroy all on Earth, so why to loosing your time in seeking for "worldly" knowledge, even inside Israel Land Boarders? :)) For a contrary, they believed how they will stay there Forever and have Kingdom Forever.

"The best sign of truth is simplicity and clarity, the lie is always intricate, tawdry and eloquent." - Tolstoy "The lie does not kill with the mallet, but it runs through blood vessels like poison, slowly and cautiously, so it does not even notice how it works" - Ivan Cankar

Is his nationality by birth as Polish above his Personal choice of belonging to Nationality of People of Jehovah's Witnesses? This is normal for prison and prisoners. I went through the same conditions and have no complain about it. My choice, my endure, my punishment. Prison authority just worked their job. ??? and what is main problem here. "Under duress" he signed? or Embassy staff was disappointed for not have visited him in first place? Again, JW brother is in negate state for all "Worldly Governments", Russian and Polish as well. As member of Kingdom Nation, Andrzej is not depending on "worldly" people help. Stay brave and endure!

Ohh, than i can see this as an rare exception of the global, general rule on issue. :))

Yeah, and in this Book is a law too, that one creature must kill another creature to survive.

Nature is great.

for the first time heard this expression, very good, thanks!

Job 14:4 King James Version (KJV) 4 Who can bring a clean thing out of an unclean? not one. .......perhaps only God can do this? Question is, would He using for such task; some of JW, some of Waking JW, some of ex-JW, some of Elders? .... and so on. Dear JW Insider, to set good example and shining - with good, proper, kind, truthful and loving deeds and words are necessary in all and every thing in our life. But would that be enough, would that be possible in Environment of JW Society and their Culture how to deal with Different even Opposite? Perhaps spirit of God can give such strength to some individual to Stay and to Survive in Such State, in such Organization. But...?! Recall Elijah 1 Kings 19. Israel people want to kill him because of his shinning. Is it different in "Spiritual Israel" today? Some JW made suicide, some was cut off socially/spiritually from other JW by Elders Judicial Judgement and suffer. Not me, i not suffer, because i decided to left. I suffer in other ways :))

is not an idiot. Only used right tool to show to other Ox's how things are and looks if you standing on other side of fence. Shamgar son of Anath, who struck down six hundred Philistines with an oxgoad. He too saved Israel. Perhaps Oscar, you spoke about, was/will save somebody life too. :))

JW org flag replaced with Chilean flag ..............and all that was happened in Chile Land not in JW Land ? :)) It seems that these youths forgot how KH is in fact Embassy of Foreign Country and have Their Own Flag on Their Own Territory inside Chilean State.