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Srecko Sostar

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    Srecko Sostar got a reaction from Witness in THE REIGNING 144,000   
    Individuality and unity is what should be expected, and not clones as you said well. According to vision and description with word "bride" in the Bible, it would be more accurate to see artistic pictures of female persons (in heaven or earth) as 144000.
    I can say how don't see any special need for 144000 to be in Heaven for purpose to reign. That can be done also very good from Earth too. But maybe we can say, for fun, that problem is hidden in transferring power of spirit from Heaven to Earth. We been explained by WT Society how "miracles" stopped. In that context it seems how one of "miracle" is to be inspired by God also finished in 1 century. :))) Perhaps that could be reason why is important for 14400 to be lifted in Heaven. Because distance must be too far, too long to be handled by spirit. :)))) 
     
    This too verses show how distance is not obstacle for spirit's activity in 1 century. I really don't see why GB and Helpers making issue and such problem about "inspiration" and "be inspired" ?!! :)) 
  2. Thanks
    Srecko Sostar reacted to Anna in A Difficult Doctrine. With an easy explanation.   
    After today's WT study I was reminded of how much simpler and clearer we have become. There are still some speculative elements there, but overall its nothing compared to some past WT studies, and although this might be slightly off topic here (but still on topic with regard to "difficult doctrine") I would just like to post one example from 1968. (WT 68/8/15) 
    Either people were more patient and studious than they are now, or even back then, perhaps only a handful were able to wrap their heads around this study. I will be bold enough to say many may have just heard "end in 1975", and that's it.
    Why Are You Looking Forward to 1975?
    1, 2. (a) What has sparked special interest in the year 1975, and with what results? (b) But what questions are raised?
    WHAT about all this talk concerning the year 1975? Lively discussions, some based on speculation, have burst into flame during recent months among serious students of the Bible. Their interest has been kindled by the belief that 1975 will mark the end of 6,000 years of human history since Adam’s creation. The nearness of such an important date indeed fires the imagination and presents unlimited possibilities for discussion.
    2 But wait! How do we know their calculations are correct? What basis is there for saying Adam was created nearly 5,993 years ago? Does the one Book that can be implicitly trusted for its truthful historical accuracy, namely, the Inspired Word of Jehovah, the Holy Bible, give support and credence to such a conclusion?
    3. Is the date for Adam’s creation as found in many copies of the Bible part of the inspired Scriptures, and do all agree on the date?
    3 In the marginal references of the Protestant Authorized or King James Version, and in the footnotes of certain editions of the Catholic Douay version, the date of man’s creation is said to be 4004 B.C.E. This marginal date, however, is no part of the inspired text of the Holy Scriptures, since it was first suggested more than fifteen centuries after the last Bible writer died, and was not added to any edition of the Bible until 1701 C.E. It is an insertion based upon the conclusions of an Irish prelate, the Anglican Archbishop James Ussher (1581-1656). Ussher’s chronology was only one of the many sincere efforts made during the past centuries to determine the time of Adam’s creation. A hundred years ago when a count was taken, no less than 140 different timetables had been published by serious scholars. In such chronologies the calculations as to when Adam was created vary all the way from 3616 B.C.E. to 6174 B.C.E., with one wild guess set at 20,000 B.C.E. Such conflicting answers contained in the voluminous libraries around the world certainly tend to compound the confusion when seeking an answer to the above questions.
    4. What have we learned in our previous study, and, hence, what are we now prepared to do?
    4 In the previous article we learned from the Inspired Writings themselves, independent of the uninspired marginal notes of some Bibles, that the seventy years of desolation of the land of Judah began to count about October 1, 607 B.C.E. The beginning of this seventy-year period was obviously tied to its ending, that is, with the fall of Babylon in 539 B.C.E. So with 607 B.C.E. as dependably fixed on our Gregorian calendar as the absolute date of 539 B.C.E. we are prepared to move farther back in the count of time, to the dating of other important events in Bible history. For instance, the years when Saul, David and Solomon reigned successively over God’s chosen people can now be dated in terms of the present-day calendar.
    5. What history-making events took place in 997 B.C.E.?
    5 At the death of Solomon his kingdom was split into two parts. The southern two-tribe part, composed of Judah and Benjamin, continued to be ruled by Solomon’s descendants, and was known as the kingdom of Judah. The northern ten tribes made up the kingdom of Israel, sometimes called “Samaria” after the name of its later capital city, and were ruled over by Jeroboam and his successors. By our applying the prophetic time period of 390 years found in Ezekiel 4:1-9 with regard to Jerusalem’s destruction the death of Solomon is found to be in the year 997 B.C.E. This was 390 years before the destruction of Jerusalem in 607 B.C.E.
    ISRAEL’S ERRORS CARRIED 390 YEARS
    6, 7. What time periods are referred to in Ezekiel 4:1-9?
    6 Notice what is said on this matter by the prophet Ezekiel:
    7 “And you, O son of man, take for yourself a brick, and you must put it before you, and engrave upon it a city, even Jerusalem. And you must lay siege against it . . . It is a sign to the house of Israel. And as for you, lie upon your left side, and you must lay the error of the house of Israel upon it. For the number of the days that you will lie upon it you will carry their error. And I myself must give to you the years of their error to the number of three hundred and ninety days, and you must carry the error of the house of Israel. And you must complete them. And you must lie upon your right side in the second case, and you must carry the error of the house of Judah forty days. A day for a year, a day for a year, is what I have given you. . . . And as for you, take for yourself wheat and barley and broad beans and lentils and millet and spelt, and you must put them in one utensil and make them into bread for you, for the number of the days that you are lying upon your side; three hundred and ninety days you will eat it.”—Ezek. 4:1-9.
    8. When did the carrying of the “error” of the southern kingdom end?
    8 This chapter 4 of Ezekiel, was not recounting past historical events but was prophecy of future events. It was telling of the time in the future when the glorious city of Jerusalem would be besieged and its inhabitants taken captive, all of which occurred in 607 B.C.E. So the forty years spoken of in the case of Judah ended in that year. The “error” of the northern kingdom, said to be carried for 390 years, was nearly tenfold greater when compared with the error of Judah carried for 40 years. When, then, did these 390 years end?
    9. What indicates the “error” of the northern kingdom also ended in 607 B.C.E.?
    9 They were not terminated in 740 B.C.E., when Samaria was destroyed, for the simple fact that Ezekiel enacted this prophetic drama sometime after “the fifth year of the exile of King Jehoiachin,” which would make the termination not earlier than 613 B.C.E., that is, 127 years after the destruction of Samaria by Assyria. (Ezek. 1:2) Since this whole prophetic drama plainly pointed forward to the destruction of Jerusalem, and since both the house of Israel and the house of Judah were in reality one inseparable covenant-bound people, the remnant of whom would not be a divided people upon their return from exile, there is only one reasonable conclusion, namely, the errors of both houses ran concurrently and terminated at the same time in 607 B.C.E. In this way the 70 years of desolation of the land of Judah ended 70 years after the termination of carrying the error of both houses, so that thus a remnant of both houses could return to the site of Jerusalem.
    10. So when did the “error” of Israel begin?
    10 If the “error of the house of Israel” ended in 607, its beginning, 390 years prior thereto, was in 997 B.C.E. It began the year that King Solomon died and Jeroboam committed error, yes, great error, in that Jeroboam, whose domain was ripped off from the house of David, “proceeded to part Israel from following Jehovah,” causing them “to sin with a great sin.”—2 Ki. 17:21.
    DATE OF EXODUS, 1513 B.C.E.
    11, 12. What other event in man’s history are we now prepared to date, and with the aid of what key text?
    11 Looking back into the distant past we see another milestone in man’s history, the never-to-be-forgotten exodus of the Israelites from Egyptian slavery, under the leadership of Moses. Were it not for Jehovah’s faithful Word the Bible, it would be impossible to locate this great event accurately on the calendar, for Egyptian hieroglyphics are conspicuously silent concerning the humiliating defeat handed that first world power by Jehovah. But with the Bible’s chronology, how relatively simple it is to date that memorable event!
    12 At 1 Kings 6:1 we read: “And it came about in the four hundred and eightieth year after the sons of Israel came out from the land of Egypt, in the fourth year, in the month of Ziv, that is, the second month, after Solomon became king over Israel, that he proceeded to build the house to Jehovah.”
    13, 14. (a) On the Gregorian calendar, in what year did Solomon begin to reign? (b) In what year did he begin the building of the temple?
    13 With this information one has only to determine what calendar year Solomon began building the temple, and it is then an easy matter to figure when Pharaoh’s army was destroyed in the Red Sea.
    14 “And the days that Solomon had reigned in Jerusalem over all Israel were forty years.” (1 Ki. 11:42) This means that his last full regnal year ended in the spring of 997 B.C.E.* Adding 40 to 997 gives 1037 B.C.E., the year that Solomon began his peaceful reign. He did not begin the temple building, as the account says, until the second month of the fourth year of his reign, which means he had ruled a full three years and one month. Thus subtracting 3 years from 1037 one gets 1034 B.C.E., the year that the building work began. The time of the year was the second month Ziv, that is, April-May. This, the Bible says, was “in the four hundred and eightieth year” after the Israelites left Egypt.
    15. (a) Explain the difference between a cardinal and an ordinal number. (b) So when did the Israelites leave Egypt?
    15 Anytime we put a “th” on the end of a number, for instance on the number 10, saying 10th, the number is changed from a cardinal to an ordinal number. When one speaks about playing baseball in the tenth inning of the game, it means that nine full innings have already been played, but only part of the tenth; ten innings are not yet completed. Likewise, when the Bible uses an ordinal number, saying that the building of the temple began in the 480th year after the Israelites left Egypt, and when that particular year on the calendar is known to be 1034 B.C.E., then we add 479 full years (not 480) to 1034 and arrive at the date 1513 B.C.E., the year of the Exodus. It too was springtime, Passover time, the 14th day of the month Nisan.
    HOW LONG SINCE THE FLOOD?
    16. How far back in history have we now penetrated, and what are the prospects of probing even deeper?
    16 Already with the help supplied by the Bible we have accurately measured back from the spring of this year 1968 C.E. to the spring of 1513 B.C.E., a total of 3,480 years. With the continued faithful memory and accurate historical record of Jehovah’s Holy Word we can penetrate even deeper into the past, back to the flood of Noah’s day.
    17. In recounting Israel’s experiences, to what events and to what time period does Stephen refer?
    17 Stephen, the first martyred footstep follower of Jesus Christ, referred to what Jehovah said would befall Abraham’s offspring. “Moreover, God spoke to this effect, that his seed would be alien residents in a foreign land and the people would enslave them and afflict them for four hundred years.” (Acts 7:6; Gen. 15:13) Stephen here mentions three of Israel’s past experiences: As alien residents in a foreign land, as people in slavery, and as people afflicted for four hundred years.
    18. What argues against the conclusion that these events were separate experiences following one another in consecutive order?
    18 It would be a mistake to assume that all three of these experiences were of equal duration, or that they were separate individual experiences that followed one another in consecutive order. It was long after their entrance into Egypt as aliens that they were enslaved, more than 70 years later, and sometime after the death of Joseph. Rather, Stephen was saying that within the same 400-year period in which they were afflicted, they were also enslaved and were also alien residents.
    19. How do we know the Israelites were “aliens” before entering Egypt?
    19 Please note that, when Stephen said they were “alien residents in a foreign land . . . for four hundred years,” he did not say and he did not mean to imply that they were not alien residents before entering Egypt. So it is a mistake to insist that this text proves the Israelites were in Egypt for four hundred years. It is true that, upon entering Egypt and being presented before Pharaoh for the first time, Joseph’s brothers said: “We have come to reside as aliens in the land.” But they did not say nor did they mean that up until then they had not been alien residents, for on the same occasion their father Jacob, when asked by Pharaoh how old he was, declared: “The days of the years of my alien residences are a hundred and thirty years.” And not only had Jacob spent his whole lifetime as an alien resident before coming to Egypt, but he told Pharaoh that his forefathers before him also had been alien residents.—Gen. 47:4-9.
    20. When did these 400 years end, and when did they begin?
    20 Since the affliction of Israel ended in 1513 B.C.E., it must have begun in 1913, 400 years earlier. That year would correspond to the time that Isaac was afflicted by Ishmael “poking fun” at him on the day that Isaac was weaned. At the time, Isaac was five years old, and this was long before the Israelites entered Egypt.—Gen. 21:8, 9.
    21, 22. Were the Israelites 430 years in Egypt exclusively, and how do certain ancient manuscripts shed light on this point?
    21 Well, then, how long were the Israelites down in Egypt as alien residents? Exodus 12:40, 41 says: “And the dwelling of the sons of Israel, who had dwelt in Egypt, was four hundred and thirty years. And it came about at the end of the four hundred and thirty years, it even came about on this very day that all the armies of Jehovah went out of the land of Egypt.”
    22 Here Ex 12 verse 40 in the Septuagint reads: “But the dwelling of the sons of Israel which they [and their fathers, Alexandrine MS] dwelt in the land of Egypt AND IN THE LAND OF CANAAN [was] four hundred and thirty years long.” The Samaritan Pentateuch reads: “IN THE LAND OF CANAAN and in the land of Egypt.” Thus both of these versions, which are based on Hebrew texts older than the Masoretic, include the words “in the land of Canaan” together with the word “Egypt.”
    23. (a) So how long were the Israelites actually in Egypt, and how does Paul confirm this? (b) Explain the difference between the 400 and the 430 years mentioned in the Scriptures.
    23 From the time that Abraham entered Canaan until Isaac’s birth was 25 years;* from that time until Jacob’s birth, 60 more years; and after that it was another 130 years before Jacob entered Egypt. All together this makes a total of 215 years, exactly half of the 430 years, spent in Canaan before moving in to Egypt. (Gen. 12:4; 21:5; 25:26; 47:9) The apostle Paul, under inspiration, also confirms that from the making of the Abrahamic covenant at the time the patriarch moved into Canaan, it was 430 years down to the institution of the Law covenant.—Gal. 3:17.
    24, 25. The Flood began in what calendar year, and how long was this before Abraham entered Canaan?
    24 By adding this 430 years to the 1513 it puts us back to 1943 B.C.E., the time when Abraham first entered Canaan following the death of his father Terah in Haran, Mesopotamia. It is now only a matter of adding up the years of a few generations to date the Flood correctly. The figures are given in Genesis, chapters 11 and 12, and may be summarized as follows:
    From start of Flood
    To Arpachshad’s birth (Gen. 11:10) 2 years
    To birth of Shelah (11:12) 35 “
    To birth of Eber (11:14) 30 “
    To birth of Peleg (11:26) 34 “
    To birth of Reu (11:18) 30 “
    To birth of Serug (11:20) 32 “
    To birth of Nahor (11:22) 30 “
    To birth of Terah (11:24) 29 “
    To death of Terah in Haran, and
    Abram’s departure to Canaan
    at age of 75 (11:32; 12:4) 205 “
    Total 427 years
    25 Adding these 427 years to the year 1943 B.C.E. dates the beginning of the Deluge at 2370 B.C.E., 4,337 years ago.
    6,000 YEARS FROM ADAM’S CREATION
    26, 27. (a) How long before the Flood was Adam created? In what year? (b) What indicates that Adam was created in the fall of the year?
    26 In a similar manner it is only necessary to add up the following years involving ten pre-Flood generations to get the date of Adam’s creation, namely:
    From Adam’s creation
    To birth of Seth (Gen. 5:3) 130 years
    To birth of Enosh (5:6) 105 “
    To birth of Kenan (5:9) 90 “
    To birth of Mahalalel (5:12) 70 “
    To birth of Jared (5:15) 65 “
    To birth of Enoch (5:18) 162 “
    To birth of Methuselah (5:21) 65 “
    To birth of Lamech (5:25) 187 “
    To birth of Noah (5:28, 29) 182 “
    To beginning of Flood (7:6) 600 “
    Total 1,656 years
    27 Adding this figure 1,656 to 2,370 gives 4026 B.C.E., the Gregorian calendar year in which Adam was created. Since man naturally began to count time with his own beginning, and since man’s most ancient calendars started each year in the autumn, it is reasonable to assume that the first man Adam was created in the fall of the year.
    28. How does this chronology differ from Ussher’s in regard to Adam’s creation?
    28 Thus, through a careful independent study by dedicated Bible scholars who have pursued the subject for a number of years, and who have not blindly followed some traditional chronological calculations of Christendom, we have arrived at a date for Adam’s creation that is 22 years more distant in the past than Ussher’s figure. This means time is running out two decades sooner than traditional chronology anticipates.
    29. Why be concerned with the date of Adam’s creation?
    29 After much of the mathematics and genealogies, really, of what benefit is this information to us today? Is it not all dead history, as uninteresting and profitless as walking through a cemetery copying old dates off tombstones? After all, why should we be any more interested in the date of Adam’s creation than in the birth of King Tut? Well, for one thing, if 4,026 is added to 1,968 (allowing for the lack of a zero year between C.E. and B.C.E.) one gets a total of 5,993 years, come this autumn, since Adam’s creation. That means, in the fall of the year 1975, a little over seven years from now (and not in 1997 as would be the case if Ussher’s figures were correct), it will be 6,000 years since the creation of Adam, the father of all mankind!
    ADAM CREATED AT CLOSE OF “SIXTH DAY”
    30. What may occur before 1975, but what attitude should we take?
    30 Are we to assume from this study that the battle of Armageddon will be all over by the autumn of 1975, and the long-looked-for thousand-year reign of Christ will begin by then? Possibly, but we wait to see how closely the seventh thousand-year period of man’s existence coincides with the sabbathlike thousand-year reign of Christ. If these two periods run parallel with each other as to the calendar year, it will not be by mere chance or accident but will be according to Jehovah’s loving and timely purposes. Our chronology, however, which is reasonably accurate (but admittedly not infallible), at the best only points to the autumn of 1975 as the end of 6,000 years of man’s existence on earth. It does not necessarily mean that 1975 marks the end of the first 6,000 years of Jehovah’s seventh creative “day.” Why not? Because after his creation Adam lived some time during the “sixth day,” which unknown amount of time would need to be subtracted from Adam’s 930 years, to determine when the sixth seven-thousand-year period or “day” ended, and how long Adam lived into the “seventh day.” And yet the end of that sixth creative “day” could end within the same Gregorian calendar year of Adam’s creation. It may involve only a difference of weeks or months, not years.
    31. What do the first two chapters of Genesis disclose?
    31 In regard to Adam’s creation it is good to read carefully what the Bible says. Moses in compiling the book of Genesis referred to written records or “histories” that predated the Flood. The first of these begins with Genesis 1:1 and ends at Genesis 2:4 with the words, “This is the history of the heavens and the earth . . . ” The second historical document begins with Genesis 2:5 and ends with Ge verse two of chapter five. Hence we have two separate accounts of creation from slightly different points of view. In the second of these accounts, in Genesis 2:19, the original Hebrew verb translated “was forming” is in the progressive imperfect form. This does not mean that the animals and birds were created after Adam was created. Genesis 1:20-28 shows it does not mean that. So, in order to avoid contradiction between Ge chapter one and chapter two, Genesis 2:19, 20 must be only a parenthetical remark thrown in to explain the need for creating a “helper” for man. So the progressive Hebrew verb form could also be rendered as “had been forming.”—See Rotherham’s translation (Ro), also Leeser’s (Le).
    32. What indicates the sixth creative day did not end immediately with Adam’s creation?
    32 These two creation accounts in the book of Genesis, though differing slightly in the treatment of the material, are in perfect agreement with each other on all points, including the fact that Eve was created after Adam. So not until after this event did the sixth creative day come to an end. Exactly how soon after Adam’s creation is not disclosed. “After that [Adam and Eve’s creation] God saw everything he had made and, look! it was very good. And there came to be evening and there came to be morning, a sixth day.” (Gen. 1:31) After the sixth creative day ends, the seventh one begins.
    33. (a) How do we know the end of the sixth creative day came very soon after Adam’s creation? (b) How does Genesis 1:31 prove the sixth day ended before Adam and Eve sinned?
    33 This time between Adam’s creation and the beginning of the seventh day, the day of rest, let it be noted, need not have been a long time. It could have been a rather short one. The naming of the animals by Adam, and his discovery that there was no complement for himself, required no great length of time. The animals were in subjection to Adam; they were peaceful; they came under God’s leading; they were not needing to be chased down and caught. It took Noah only seven days to get the same kinds of animals, male and female, into the Ark. (Gen. 7:1-4) Eve’s creation was quickly accomplished, ‘while Adam was sleeping.’ (Gen. 2:21) So the lapse of time between Adam’s creation and the end of the sixth creative day, though unknown, was a comparatively short period of time. The pronouncement at the end of the sixth day, “God saw everything he had made and, look! it was very good,” proves that the beginning of the great seventh day of the creative week did not wait until after Adam and Eve sinned and were expelled from the Garden of Eden.
    1975! . . . AND FAR BEYOND!
    34. What has brought about a better understanding of Bible chronology?
    34 Bible chronology is an interesting study by which historic events are placed in their order of occurrence along the stream of time. The Watch Tower Society over the years has endeavored to keep its associates abreast with the latest scholarship that proves consistent with historic and prophetic events recorded in the Scriptures. Major problems in sacred chronology have been straightened out either due to fulfillment of Bible prophecies or by reason of archaeological discoveries or because better Bible translations convey more clearly the records of the original languages. However, several knotty problems of chronology of a minor nature are not yet resolved. For example, at the time of the exodus from Egypt when Jehovah changed the beginning of the year from autumn time on the secular calendar to spring time on the sacred calendar, was there, in the Jewish calendar, a loss or a gain of six months?—Ex. 12:1, 2.
    35. Why is this no time for indifference and complacency?
    35 One thing is absolutely certain, Bible chronology reinforced with fulfilled Bible prophecy shows that six thousand years of man’s existence will soon be up, yes, within this generation! (Matt. 24:34) This is, therefore, no time to be indifferent and complacent. This is not the time to be toying with the words of Jesus that “concerning that day and hour nobody knows, neither the angels of the heavens nor the Son, but only the Father.” (Matt. 24:36) To the contrary, it is a time when one should be keenly aware that the end of this system of things is rapidly coming to its violent end. Make no mistake, it is sufficient that the Father himself knows both the “day and hour”!
    36. What helpful example did the apostles leave us in this regard?
    36 Even if one cannot see beyond 1975, is this any reason to be less active? The apostles could not see even this far; they knew nothing about 1975. All they could see was a short time ahead in which to finish the work assigned to them. (1 Pet. 4:7) Hence, there was a ring of alarm and a cry of urgency in all their writings. (Acts 20:20; 2 Tim. 4:2) And rightly so. If they had delayed or dillydallied and had been complacent with the idea the end was some thousands of years off they would never have finished running the race set before them. No, they ran hard and they ran fast, and they won! It was a life or death matter with them.—1 Cor. 9:24; 2 Tim. 4:7; Heb. 12:1.
    37. So what will you be doing between now and 1975? And beyond that, what?
    37 So too with Jehovah’s faithful witnesses in this latter half of the twentieth century. They have the true Christian point of view. Their strenuous evangelistic activity is not something peculiar to this present decade. They have not dedicated their lives to serve Jehovah only until 1975. Christians have been running this way ever since Christ Jesus blazed the trail and commanded his disciples, “Follow me!” So keep this same mental attitude in you that was in Christ Jesus. Let nothing slow you down or cause you to tire and give out. Those who will flee Babylon the Great and this Satanic system of things are now running for their lives, headed for God’s kingdom, and they will not stop at 1975. O no! They will keep on in this glorious way that leads to everlasting life, praising and serving Jehovah for ever and ever!
     
     
    You are referring to Luke 10:17,18 "Then the 70 returned with joy, saying: “Lord, even the demons are made subject to us by the use of your name.” At that he said to them: “I see Satan already fallen like lightning from heaven". 
    But one of the cross references to Satan falling is Revelation 12:7-9   "And war broke out in heaven: Miʹcha·el and his angels battled with the dragon, and the dragon and its angels battled 8  but they did not prevail, nor was a place found for them any longer in heaven. 9  So down the great dragon was hurled, the original serpent, the one called Devil and Satan, who is misleading the entire inhabited earth; he was hurled down to the earth, and his angels were hurled down with him".
    I wonder why, since as you say we are to understand that it referred to the power Satan had over Jesus and his disciples.
    In a way no, but I think we are meant to see that the world in general was brought into more of a turmoil than it had been before, with the world warring on a worldwide scale, with lethal weapons capable of total world destruction
    I am thinking rather than using the word "defeat" (because Satan won't be defeated until after the 1000 years) the purpose of the battle in heaven in 1914 was to cleanse the heavens of his evil presence. Then during Armageddon it will be to bind him and put him in "jail" for a period of time. So no, I don't think there are several stages of defeat.
     
    We are to believe that what changed after the battle in 1914 was the world in general.
     
    Yes indeed. But how fatal would it really be if we ignored Jesus words about not knowing the day or hour?
  3. Like
    Srecko Sostar reacted to admin in Hello by Lionel Richie   
    The music video for Lionel Richie's "Hello" directed by Bob Giraldi, attracts attention as it tells the story of a music teacher (played by Lionel Richie) who falls in love with his blind student.
    "Hello is it me you're looking for?" is quite an insensitive pick up line to use on a blind woman.   Ah, the 80s, when people thought teachers stalking their disabled students was romantic...

       
  4. Upvote
    Srecko Sostar got a reaction from 4Jah2me in A Difficult Doctrine. With an easy explanation.   
    “We Must Obey God as Ruler Rather Than Men” 
    This is something that not sound to me as doctrine. This sound as standpoint. Also we have to take context. Apostle responded with this statement as position on Sanhedrin's command that they must not preaching....about what? Peter and John answered: “We cannot stop speaking about the things we have seen and heard.” 
    Well, this is original context. Some other examples speaking about similar things where JHVH and Jesus' servants refused to do something or have done something. Life has got to be more complexe through centuries, so we have now more explanations and interpretations how should look like today's reality of "obey god rather than man". Even things about education come to be viewed through this sort of glasses. Advice to not going to higher education coming from "spiritual place" as god's instruction through GB. Not obeying counsel/advice/recommendation in this matter is considered as not putting god on first place in life. But contrary, own selfish ambitions. As consequence this could be understand that you listen/obey yourself and not god. 
    About what JW's of today can making claim as apostles did? What things JW today "have seen and heard"  that make their standpoint so firm to obey god as ruler? They have seen and heard only their faith and beliefs. Because they have not seen and heard nothing similar what apostles or first christians experienced.  
    And this is good way how system making doctrines that sounds like "the truth". And after some time you will read new articles with similar explanation :))) ... year after year.
    ● At times there are changes in viewpoint on Biblical subjects discussed in the Watch Tower Society’s publications. We speak of what we believe as “the truth.” But does “truth” change?
    Yes, it changes. Because you believe in new, advanced knowledge. "The Truth" should not to be knowledge, but Principle. Because Principle is older than this what we calling "the Truth". Even in JW understanding when they speaking about something that is so firm and deep, unchangeable, they using word "Principle" not word "Truth". Principles in Old Testament, for example, that stood behind some laws of Moses, are visible in New Testament too. 
    In that context we can talk about Moses Law as "The Truth". Perhaps old Israel people used same or similar wording to describe what they think and feel about God' Words. But this kind of "Truth" and their "Truth" are gone. (Not completely, because we have Israel of today.) So, "The Truth" was changed, even more, with time it had been abandoned gradually by new formed Jew congregations. "Old truth" became useless as sort of knowledge about what, how, when and why to be practiced in daily life.
    Principles stayed. Love God, love neighbor are most known.
  5. Like
    Srecko Sostar got a reaction from admin in Eva Cassidy - Kathy's Song   
    Paul Simon, full lyric,
    Kathy's Song
     
    I hear the drizzle of the rain
    Like a memory it falls
    Soft and warm continuing
    Tapping on my roof and walls.
    And from the shelter of my mind
    Through the window of my eyes
    I gaze beyond the rain-drenched streets
    To England where my heart lies.
    My mind's distracted and diffused
    My thoughts are many miles away
    They lie with you when you're asleep
    And kiss you when you start your day.
    And a song I was writing is left undone
    I don't know why I spend my time
    Writing songs I can't believe
    With words that tear and strain to rhyme.
    And so you see I have come to doubt
    All that I once held as true
    I stand alone without beliefs
    The only truth I know is you.
    And as I watch the drops of rain
    Weave their weary paths and die
    I know that I am like the rain
    There but for the grace of you go I.
  6. Like
    Srecko Sostar reacted to 4Jah2me in Receiving and giving with measure. Receiving and giving without measure.   
    @Srecko Sostar I don't know, but it made me laugh anyway. 
    If some of the 'brothers' are deeply involved in the property business, and other brothers are deeply involved in the legal / lawyer business (court cases), then it seems the JW Org becomes more worldly every day. 
    I cannot believe this is what God or Jesus Christ wants from 'chosen ones'. 
     
  7. Upvote
    Srecko Sostar got a reaction from 4Jah2me in Receiving and giving with measure. Receiving and giving without measure.   
    Are JW people, who are involved in making money with buy and sale business  inside WT Society, those "sons of this world" :)) because of their wisdom how to handle and make arrangements with "wicked generation of darkness" ?
  8. Thanks
    Srecko Sostar reacted to 4Jah2me in Receiving and giving with measure. Receiving and giving without measure.   
    They are not selling ONE house, they are running a Property business 
    https://ibsaproperty.com/
    IBSA London Properties is part of IBSA (International Bible Students Association) a registered charity acting on behalf of Jehovah’s Witnesses in Britain and Ireland. For more information about Jehovah’s Witnesses please follow this link.
  9. Like
    Srecko Sostar reacted to Witness in THE REIGNING 144,000   
    And they sing a new song, saying: “You are worthy to take the scroll and open its seals, for you were slaughtered and with your blood you bought people for God out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation, 10  and you made them to be a kingdom and priests to our God, and they are to rule as kingsr over the earth.”Rev 5:9,10 - NWT
    As a JW, this sounded accurate to me, since it fit the supporting doctrine that the “144,000” will rule strictly from heaven – “over” the earth...not within its vicinity, but from the spiritual realm.  What I have since learned about this scripture and Christ’s truth regarding where the anointed will be “ruling” from, has been an important turning point for me.
    Notice how the organization’s own Kingdom Interlinear Translation of the Greek Scriptures breaks down vs. 10:
    “and you made them to the God of us kingdom and priests and they are reigning upon the earth”
    Here are a few other examples:
    “And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.”  Scripture4all.org
    “…they will reign upon the earth”.  https://biblehub.com/interlinear/revelation/5-10.htm
    It is very rare to find a Bible translation using the phrase “over the earth” in this scripture. The organization’s latest pictorial depiction of the 144,000 kings/priests ruling in heaven was of a vast array of emerald green thrones where men appearing identical to one another and to Christ, gazed over the earth as Christ’s “co-rulers”.  I wonder what the anointed JW women feel about a female’s apparent transition into a man, who are clones of each other.  This teaching sounds ridiculous to me today.  However, since the role of JW women is repeatedly slighted, should we expect any acknowledgement of the anointed being both male and female?  I could be in error, but I haven’t seen any photos of women partaking in the magazines.
     There is no Jew or Greek, slave or free, male or female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.  Gal 3:28
    To be one in Christ does not mean the faithful sealed anointed take on the same physical appearance as Christ. All of the members of a fleshly body are distinctly different in appearance; working separately yet collectively, with the unified goal to allow the body to work efficiently.  It is the same in the Body of Christ. 1 Cor 12:15-20  All are given various gifts, and all are individuals with individual personalities. They have abilities reflecting the gift they receive.
     Paul described it this way:
    There are different kinds of gifts, but the same Spirit distributes them. 5 There are different kinds of service, but the same Lord. 6 There are different kinds of working, but in all of them and in everyone it is the same God at work.  1 Cor 12:4-6
    If they were all one part, where would the body be? 20 As it is, there are many parts, but one body. 1 Cor 12:19,20
    Just as a body, though one, has many parts, but all its many parts form one body, so it is with Christ. 13 For we were all baptized byone Spirit so as to form one body—whether Jews or Gentiles, slave or free—and we were all given the one Spirit to drink. 14 Even so the body is not made up of one part but of many. 1 Cor 12:12-14
    15 Instead, speaking the truth in love, we will grow to become in every respect the mature body of him who is the head, that is, Christ. 16 From him the whole body, joined and held together by every supporting ligament, grows and builds itself up in love, as each part does its work.  Eph 4:11-16
    The 144,000 are the Bride of Christ under the New Covenant “woman”/promise.   (2 Cor 11:2; Eph 5:29-32; Gal 4:26) It is curious that the WT's leaders rarely go into detail about this.  When I recall their latest illustration described above, I don’t believe the artist had the idea of “bride” in mind. I could only sense an aura of steely authority, without the needed compassion and love that Jesus exhibited and taught his disciples to nurture within themselves. (Isa 42:3; Matt 14:14; John 13:34,35; 1 John 4: 17; Heb 4:15)
    Just as a bride and groom are not identical to each other, neither is Christ’s Bride of many members; either to Christ, or to one another, as the illustration erroneously shows. (1 Cor 12:29,30; Eph 4:11-13)  Marriage partners compliment and support each other in love.  It is the same with the Body of Christ, being united in one Spirit that imparts love, faith and knowledge of Christ and the Father.
    The organization’s leaders are unable to perceive this spiritual unity, since they have rejected the Spirit of Christ, in exchange for the spirit of Satan.  (John 15:4-7;1 Cor 6:15-17; 2 Cor 11:3; 2 Pet 1:10; Rev 2:4; 8:10;13:11)
    Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might know the things that have been freely given to us by God.13 These things we also speak, not in words which man’s wisdom teaches but which the Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual. 14 But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.  1 Cor 2:12-14
     In order to “rule on the earth”, God’s priests must be on the earth.  If we can shed the false belief that once the 144,000 are sealed in “heaven” they will remain there, we are then able to grasp how such “heavenly” angel/messenger/priests will be found ruling, teaching, and helping God’s future children on the earth.  (Mal 2:7; 1 Pet 2:5,9; Heb 1:14; Rev 5:9,10)  
    We can comprehend God’s “new creation” as having two “births”; one by fleshly parents through Adam and Eve, (Gen 2:7) and one by spiritual parents.  (John 3:3,5; 1 Cor 15:50; John 15:45; 20:22; Gal 4:26)
    Once Jesus was resurrected, he appeared many times to his disciples in the flesh; and just as easily, disappeared into the spirit realm.   His example set the precedence of what it means to be a “new creation”.  (Mark 16:12; John 21:14; 1 Cor 15:3-8) 
    By combining this event with Pearl Doxsey's help from her article, “Who are the gods?”, we can visualize the 144,000 “angels” present not only in the spirit realm, but on earth as well:
    The sons of God ("gods") inherit the promises given to Abraham. What promises are these?
    "I will make you very fruitful (John 15:8) I will make nations of you (Rev 5:9,10), and kings will come from you (Rev 20:4; 1:5; 3:21; 19:16,15; 2:26,27)".

    “Jacob had a dream in which he saw a stairway resting on the earth, with its top reaching to heaven, and the angels of God were ascending and descending on it. 
    There above it stood the Lord, and he said: "I am the Lord, the God of your father Abraham and the God of Isaac. I will give you and your descendants the land on which you are lying 
    (Ps 37:29; Heb 2:5,16; Gal 3:29; Heb 11:8-10; 13:14; Rev 21:2; Heb 12:22,23; Luke 10:20) (Gen.17:6). 
    Your descendants will be like the dust of the earth, and you will spread out to the west and to the east, to the north and to the south. All peoples on earth will be blessed through you and your offspring (Rev 22:2). I am with you and will watch over you wherever you go (Matt 28:20), and I will bring you back to this land (Rev 21:7). 

    I will not leave you (John 14:18) until I have done what I have promised you (John 16:22). 
    Jacob was afraid and said, “How awesome is this place (Heb 12:22,23,28)! This is none other than the house of God (1 Cor 3:9,16; Isa 56:7; Eph 2:19,10); this is the gate of heaven (Rev 11:6; Matt 16:19; Rev 3:12; John 10:9; 2 Cor 5:20)." (Gen.28:12-15,17)

    "Jesus added, “Very truly I tell you, you will see ‘heaven open (Luke 24:32; Rev 2:17; Matt 13:11; Rev 4:1; 1:1) 
    (John 3:12; 1 Cor 2:12,13; Col 3:2), and the angels of God ascending and descending (Heb 12:22; Eph 2:6; Rev 3:21) "on* (Greek--*"in service to") the Son of Man.” (John 1:51)
    The "angels" (Lit. Greek, "messengers" – Isa 43:10,21; 1 Pet 2:9; Mal 2:7; Acts 1:8) referred to here, could not have served before the time of Christ (John 3:13)
    Jesus specifically said that they are in service on "the Son of Man" (1 Cor 4:1). 
    The "Son of Man" is Jesus in the flesh (John 1:14). Therefore, these angels serve Christ, after his coming down from heaven. 
    To be a messenger of Christ ("ambassador") who harbors God's spirit of life within...
    who has been made new (Rom 12:2; 8:11) as a part of God's new creation (2 Cor 5:17) by means of incorruptible seed, the Word of God (1 Pet 1:23; Luke 8:11)...
    …who has been reborn as a Son of the Most High (John 3:3,5; Rom 8:16,17,19,28-30)...
    who has been made an immovable pillar in the eternal heavenly Temple of God (Rev 3:12; Prov 9:1; Jer 1:18)...
    ...is a "god" (Ps 82:6; Rom 8:14; 1 Cor 8:5). 
    I do hope readers here find this information to be a personal turning point as it was for me, in learning that both Christ and the 144,000 kings and priests/ Bride of Christ, will have access to heaven as well as on earth, and living among God’s future children in the Kingdom.
    “You are the light of the world. A city that is set on a hill cannot be hidden.” Matt 5:14
     Then I saw “a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea. 2 I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband. 3 And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Look! God’s dwelling place is now among the people, and he will dwell with them. They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God. Rev 21:1-3
     “But I saw no temple in it, for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are its temple” Rev 21:22
    And there shall be no more curse, but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it, and His servants shall serve Him. 4 They shall see His face, and His name shall be on their foreheads. 5 There shall be no night there: They need no lamp nor light of the sun, for the Lord God gives them light. And they shall reign forever and ever. Rev 22:3-5
    Do you not know that you are the temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you? 1 Cor 3:16
    Pearl Doxsey: (type in her name and the title of the article in the search bar. The link should appear)
    “End of the New Covenant”
    “Those not anointed – what benefit now?”
    “The Holy City”
     

     
     
     
    And again, when God brings his firstborn into the world, he says,
    “Let all God’s angels worship him.” (Heb.1:6)
    "Jesus will again, be brought into the world. At that time, the totality of his angels/messengers, will worship him... and be in service to, the Son of Man."  Pearl Doxsey
  10. Upvote
    Srecko Sostar got a reaction from 4Jah2me in Receiving and giving with measure. Receiving and giving without measure.   
    This is relatively true. Relativism is based on perception. It depends in what part of world you live, and how much income you have. Generally, i believe how most JW's do not belong to people who have more (surplus money) than they need for some "normal" life. Of course, we all can do some changes to live more modest life than we do now. But it is not good to be "clever" in advising how some other people should live in their circumstances, and not for yourself.
    And this is also good advice for WT Society. To not give lessons about modesty when they using expensive building projects and other advanced technology for few so simple request Jesus put on people: Love God, Love people and give testimony about your Faith and Hope. 
  11. Upvote
    Srecko Sostar got a reaction from 4Jah2me in Receiving and giving with measure. Receiving and giving without measure.   
    correction 2. Kings 2:9
    @Witness , I read material in link. I like wording in there speaking about knowledge in mind and love in heart. But, of course, when this two working in harmony, results (fruits) are better.
  12. Upvote
    Srecko Sostar got a reaction from JW Insider in Eva Cassidy - Kathy's Song   
    Paul Simon, full lyric,
    Kathy's Song
     
    I hear the drizzle of the rain
    Like a memory it falls
    Soft and warm continuing
    Tapping on my roof and walls.
    And from the shelter of my mind
    Through the window of my eyes
    I gaze beyond the rain-drenched streets
    To England where my heart lies.
    My mind's distracted and diffused
    My thoughts are many miles away
    They lie with you when you're asleep
    And kiss you when you start your day.
    And a song I was writing is left undone
    I don't know why I spend my time
    Writing songs I can't believe
    With words that tear and strain to rhyme.
    And so you see I have come to doubt
    All that I once held as true
    I stand alone without beliefs
    The only truth I know is you.
    And as I watch the drops of rain
    Weave their weary paths and die
    I know that I am like the rain
    There but for the grace of you go I.
  13. Thanks
  14. Like
    Srecko Sostar reacted to 4Jah2me in Receiving and giving with measure. Receiving and giving without measure.   
    Well here in the UK the JW Org are selling houses for over one million pounds each in London, and I didn't even look at how much the commercial properties were. So they are into big business it seems, whilst Jesus said He was no part of this world.  I'd love to know exactly who lives in those one million pound houses before they are sold, and is it JW volunteers that refurbish the houses. 
  15. Thanks
    Srecko Sostar reacted to JW Insider in EVA CASSIDY ~ Fields Of Gold   
    My daughter would play her album Time After Time, over and over. When I found out that Eva Cassidy had already died well before the album came out, it kind of made a few of the songs sound even more "haunting" than they already were.
  16. Thanks
    Srecko Sostar reacted to admin in EVA CASSIDY ~ Fields Of Gold   
    Wow  she died of melanoma at the age of 33!!
  17. Thanks
    Srecko Sostar reacted to JW Insider in EVA CASSIDY ~ Fields Of Gold   
    Eva Cassidy died at a relatively young (age 33) and has only a couple albums where she sings by herself, most of them stylistic covers. But her ability to put emotion into a song was amazing. Her rendition of "Somewhere Over the Rainbow" is perfect. Wish we had more of her work to listen to.
  18. Upvote
    Srecko Sostar reacted to admin in EVA CASSIDY ~ Fields Of Gold   
    This version seems to have so much more feeling than the original
  19. Upvote
    Srecko Sostar got a reaction from Witness in Receiving and giving with measure. Receiving and giving without measure.   
    correction 2. Kings 2:9
    @Witness , I read material in link. I like wording in there speaking about knowledge in mind and love in heart. But, of course, when this two working in harmony, results (fruits) are better.
  20. Like
    Srecko Sostar got a reaction from admin in EVA CASSIDY ~ Fields Of Gold   
  21. Upvote
    Srecko Sostar got a reaction from 4Jah2me in A Difficult Doctrine. With an easy explanation.   
    I am not so sure that Colossians speaking about coincidence. 
    I never thought this way, but questions comes after reading this Colossians verses. What sort of "created lordships or governments or authorities" already existed in the heavens and on earth, especially in time period before, in the moment and after Adam and Eve were created? Have some idea? 
    New born human society was made of two. I see, in Genesis, how Adam had sort of "power" over animals. Eve had free will and autonomy, just like Adam. Only after Cain's crime we see how he had big fear over his life because there was possibility, that some people (who they are, where they lived, what structure they created??) will kill him because of what  he has done. 
    I see here some issues. God didn't punished Cain (God is Lord, Government and Authority). Adam didn't punished Cain (Adam was his father, but he didn't show he had any power over his son). Some unknown people, living who knows where have some thoughts about killing Cain, because he murdered Abel. Why would they be interested in this Adam's family "business"? And why they were interested in "punishing" Cain? 
    What sort of structure, legislative (lordships or governments or authorities) existed inside this outside group, tribe, society, that show us how they had something what Adam and Eve family, tribe hadn't ?
  22. Upvote
    Srecko Sostar reacted to James Thomas Rook Jr. in Receiving and giving with measure. Receiving and giving without measure.   
    My donations are always by check, and written thereon is "for local needs".
    It's like paying taxes, some of which are used to make hydrogen bombs, and ICBMs.
    Not my problem.
    Jesus and the Apostles needed NONE of those things you mentioned, Arauna.
    If you are NOT inspired of God, as the GB admits they are not ( February 2017 Watchtower), you do need all of those things you mentioned.
    They are actually essential, as I would freely admit.
    .... and HEY!, I am just guessing about all of this ... as is everyone else.
    And Arauna .... did you get NOTHING out of the "Follow Jesus" Assemblies?
    Jesus set the example .
    We are either following that example, or .....
    WE ARE NOT.
    The fact of the matter is that the GB DOES use the billions for their own purposes.
    but, I am, as you stated, "no one to criticize" ... as I do not follow Jesus' example either.
    If I had that kind of money, I would buy a Chinook double rotor helicopter, instead of Rolex watches, and cartoons of Caleb and Sophia, etc.
    uh ... for Witnessing on beautiful Pacific Islands, of course ....
     
     

  23. Like
    Srecko Sostar reacted to James Thomas Rook Jr. in Receiving and giving with measure. Receiving and giving without measure.   
    I strongly suspect that Jehovah's Holy Spirit is given in direct proportion to the amount of Spirit you actually need.... considering that Jesus Christ and the Apostles had NO Real Estate whatsoever, as part of their Organization, and only enough money for the days food, and to the best of my knowledge, just the clothes on their backs, they needed a lot ... and they received a lot of Holy Spirit.
    The Governing Body has billions of dollars in Real Estate, all over the world, and controls billions of dollars worth of money, to spend as they alone see fit.
    ... and dat's de fact, Jack.
    SOOooooo... they are on their own.
    ..... as are the great majority of us.
    I have SEEN Jehovah's Spirit build up and sustain several of the Anointed ones, who had no strength of resources of their own, and I suspect when it is needed ... actually NEEDED .. the rest of us "ground pounders" get it as well.
    That is just my guess of how it works ... no more.
    ...and I suspect it is INVERSELY proportional to how much you have naturally, WITHOUT Jehovah's intervention.
     
     
     
    the formula for that is 1/x.
    There is probably a button on your pocket calculator for that.
  24. Like
    Srecko Sostar reacted to James Thomas Rook Jr. in A Difficult Doctrine. With an easy explanation.   
    Answer:
    Hatred borne of jealousy ...
    .... because the people  covering the Earth, outside of Adam and Eves' family, were NOT directly created beings of Jehovah, and did NOT have an opportunity to live forever ...
    ...and they KNEW that to be the case.
    That is why Cain was afraid that wherever he went in his enforced exile to wander the Earth, those evolved  humans would kill him.
    I do not "have Polaroids", but that idea solves a LOT of problems, including millions of tons of hard fossil evidence, all over the Earth, that only the willfully stupid would say means nothing ... and it solves the problem of who Cain married.
  25. Like
    Srecko Sostar reacted to James Thomas Rook Jr. in A Difficult Doctrine. With an easy explanation.   
    2011, after the Nation realized they could NOT keep their doctor, they could NOT keep their health plan, and the $2500 every person was going to save on their Health Care, was going to cost them about $10,000 more, and if they did not buy it, the IRS would add a whopping fine to their Income Tax return.
    On a related note, in 1980, the Governing Body in considering the "signs in the heavens ..." actually considered declaring Sputnik to be the fulfillment of Bible Prophesy, Schroeder, Karl Klein and Grant Suiter proposed moving the beginning of the "generation" to the year 1957, to coincide with the 1957 Sputnik event,  and it almost became "new light", except a 66-2/3 majority vote was needed to adopt that policy, and one member of the Governing Body went to the restroom, and when he came back, he changed his vote, and it failed by one vote.
    In retrospect, perhaps the Brother should have held his water.
     
     

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