Jump to content
The World News Media

Srecko Sostar

Member
  • Posts

    3,450
  • Joined

  • Last visited

  • Days Won

    57

Reputation Activity

  1. Upvote
    Srecko Sostar reacted to ApostaBabe Linda James in Child sexual abuse has been found in most major UK religions   
    Yes, I've caught wind this as well. They're calling it a pilot something or another for about two, maybe three months.
    For the most part, we can assume that children say under what I believe to be 12 years old, won't be attending these meetings because they have not been vaccinated for Covid-19. Being vaccinated is part of the requirements as far as showing up at these Kingdom Hall meetings. So unless the age limit changes to a lower age for receiving C-19 vaccinations, we can pretty much assume those 12 and under will not be in attendance at these Kingdom Hall's.
    So although I have concern about the members returning to the Kingdom Hall's for their meetings, something's just not right about this whole thing. I my share my concerns later. But I agree with you Space Merchant on becoming more educated on CSA. Especially on how this organization has set things up on how to handle CSA case's. Unfortunately it is because of lack of Education on CSA that the Elders will remain absolutely ignorant regarding how the leadership of the Org is going to keep having them do their dirty work for them all the while intending for the elders to take the fall as they keep getting thrown under the bus by the leadership of the organization. The leadership will then claim that they had nothing to do with how the elders own conscience had lead him to take care of their own congregation reports of alleged CSA case's. Much like in the Montana CSA case where when the perpetrator admitted guilt when questioned by the elders, changed his mind and skipped town down to Mexico.
    In the Utah case where an elder decided to display his own infinite wisdom by taking it upon himself to make an alleged victim who was 14 at the time of her alleged rape, listen to an audio recording, that the alleged rapist, who was 18 at the time that he had allegedly raped her, had made. This audio recording with which he had recorded without her consent nor her knowledge, of her very own alleged rape was handed over to the elder so as to confirm his innocence. This way the elders could listen to it and determine whether she was a consensual partner as the 18 year old had claimed or not. She nor her parents were made aware that this audio recording even existed until after this judicial meeting had started. Five hour's, I repeat, FIVE HOUR'S of her having to listen to this audio recording as the Elder would repeatedly stop and ask her questions such as, "describe what was going on here?" She begged him to stop making her listen to it and to answer to him. Everyone in this judicial meeting could see how she was visibly shaking and crying while being made to re-live this alleged rape that she had originally reported to the elders. Her parents were informed either before or during the beginning of this judicial meeting, that they were not to interrupt this meeting under any circumstances otherwise the consequence would be their daughter's disfellowshipping. As I recall, I believe the parents were threatened with the consequence of disfellowshipping as well their daughter, so all three of them were in fact being horribly traumatized. Yet Mr. Infinite Wisdom Elder would start up the recording, play it for a bit more and then stop the recording to make more inquiries of her. Yes, she continue to beg the elder to stop through her tears.
    Actuality, aside from a few cases like these two above case's, the elders do exactly as they are instructed to do by the leadership. They make that phone call to headquarters for them to receive their legal advice. Which they ( the elders ) are basically there to stall the rank and file members from ever opening up any CSA case's with the secular Authorities. So when elders tell alleged victims of CSA that they have every right to tell the police, these elders have no intention to cooperate with the police when asked to. The elders will also add that by starting a case with the secular Authorities, it will only drag Jehovah's name through the mud. This statement alone is often a  successful deterrent on the part of the elders to avoid the rank-and-file members from filing any charges with the secular authorities.
    In my opinion, all of this "dragging Jehovah's name through the mud" is a sorry explanation of an excuse used for the reason of stalling their members to not go to the secular authorities. But it works, so they'll continue to use it.
    How about Jehovah take some responsibility for his own reputation rather than making it the rank-and-file members responsibility. This is truly an unfair and uncalled for burden to put on alleged victims of CSA as well their families, 
  2. Downvote
    Srecko Sostar got a reaction from NoisySrecko in Child sexual abuse has been found in most major UK religions   
    WTJWorg and its representatives all these years have not written or said that the JW church has a problem with the CSA. They claim that these are false accusations and slanders by the "hostile world" and former members. Denying that a problem exists is also a type of education that JW members receive from their religious leaders. And you are calling me here that I am against education?
  3. Downvote
    Srecko Sostar got a reaction from NoisySrecko in Child sexual abuse has been found in most major UK religions   
    Sometimes my memory is short. I am not pretending. You speak more than it is necessary, when try to expose other people, supposed/alleged motives and position.  
    CSA is not "test" for victims, but it is "test" for GB and JW elders who put themselves in position to judge people (perpetrators and victims) about it. Who put themselves in position to bring Policy that is obligated for members to respect and obey inside WTJWorg. When JW elders convince a victim that they cannot and must not trust him/her because there are no two witnesses to support his/her claim, then it is disrespect to the victim. I think your claim is misdirected. Disrespect, in this example, cannot be directed at the type of crime, but at the people who experienced that crime on their own skin. Not trusting and not helping a victim who has gone through “hell”, that is disrespect/disrespectful.
  4. Downvote
    Srecko Sostar got a reaction from NoisySrecko in Child sexual abuse has been found in most major UK religions   
    He is an interesting character. I presenting myself with real name (some would say that is a risk, because bad people can use photo and name for evil purpose) on this Forum and elsewhere if i leave comment or put "like". He have idea how visiting internet places, let say 1, 5 or 35 of millions that exists, means how person is "all over the place". Perhaps, guess internet only, and not all over geographic places, all over time places/points, or all over parallel universe, or in some third space-time reality.
    On contrary he representing himself with false name and an icon/figure that is strange. From some SF movie or what. Who can guarantee that he don't  visiting 100 platforms under 100 false names?
  5. Downvote
    Srecko Sostar got a reaction from NoisySrecko in Child sexual abuse has been found in most major UK religions   
    Wrong choice of words. Yes, i am Member in this Club.  If I want to leave a comment in this club or on some other page, then it is logical that I have to log in. Does that make me a “member” who swears allegiance?  If you do not want to loosen your perseverance, feel free to continue in the same scenario. I don’t mind if people want to see where I left a comment or tagged a video with “like”.
    Perhaps you have some sort of a OCD in this matter (as in Glasgow case too), as our other member of this club, Arauna, would say. Waiting for your (long) response. 
    One of our case studies examined the responses of the Jehovah’s Witness organisation to allegations of child sexual abuse. We also held an institutional review hearing to provide an opportunity for the Jehovah’s Witness organisation to inform us of its current policies and procedures in relation to child protection and child safe standards, including responding to allegations of child sexual abuse.
    As of 31 May 2017, of the 4,029 survivors who told us during private sessions about child sexual abuse in religious institutions, 70 survivors told us about abuse in the Jehovah’s Witnesses. Of the victims we heard about, 80.0 per cent were female. The average age of victims at the time of first abuse was 8.4 years. Of the 53 survivors who told us about the age of the person who sexually abused them, 44 survivors (83.0 per cent) told us about abuse by an adult and 12 survivors (22.6 per cent) told us about abuse by a child. A small number of survivors told us about sexual abuse by an adult and by a child. The vast majority of survivors who told us about abuse by an adult perpetrator said they were abused by a male adult.
    Of the 65 survivors who told us during private sessions about the role of a perpetrator, 26.2 per cent told us about child sexual abuse by family members. This was considered to be within our Terms of Reference when the sexual abuse was reported to and handled by the religious institution. We also heard from survivors about other perpetrators including volunteers (13.8 per cent), lay leaders (9.2 per cent) and other adults who attended the religious institution (9.2 per cent).
    As part of our case study, the Jehovah’s Witness organisation provided us with files containing allegations, reports or complaints of child sexual abuse. They provided us with documents relating to at least 1,800 children and over 1,000 alleged perpetrators.
    Institutional responses to child sexual abuse in the Jehovah’s Witnesses
    Our case study regarding the Jehovah’s Witnesses showed that the organisation dealt with allegations of child sexual abuse in accordance with internal, scripturally based disciplinary policies and procedures. We found that at least until 1998, individuals making complaints of child sexual abuse were required to state their allegations in the presence of the person against whom the allegations were made. The ‘two-witness’ rule applied – that is, wrongdoing could only be established on the basis of testimony from two or more ‘credible’ eyewitnesses to the same incident (or strong circumstantial evidence testified to by at least two witnesses or testimony of two witnesses to the same kind of wrongdoing). Allegations were investigated by elders, all of whom were men and had no relevant training.
    We found that in deciding the sanctions to impose and/or the precautions to take in relation to a known or suspected perpetrator of child sexual abuse, the Jehovah’s Witness organisation had inadequate regard for the risk that the person might reoffend. Alleged perpetrators of child sexual abuse who were removed from their congregations as a result of allegations of child sexual abuse were frequently reinstated. We found no evidence of the Jehovah’s Witness organisation reporting allegations of child sexual abuse to police or other civil authorities.
    During our case study we heard from survivors of child sexual abuse that they were not provided with adequate information by the Jehovah’s Witness organisation about the investigation of their allegations, felt unsupported by the elders who handled the allegations, and felt that the investigation process was a test of their credibility rather than that of the alleged perpetrator. We also heard that victims of child sexual abuse were told by congregational elders not to discuss the abuse with others, and that if they tried to leave the organisation, they were ‘shunned’ or ostracised from their religious community.
    Contributing factors in the Jehovah’s Witnesses
    We considered a number of factors that may have contributed to the occurrence of child sexual abuse in the Jehovah’s Witnesses or to inadequate institutional responses to such abuse.
    The Jehovah’s Witness organisation addresses child sexual abuse in accordance with scriptural direction, relying on a literal interpretation of the Bible and 1st century principles to set practice, policy and procedure. These include the ‘two-witness’ rule as discussed, as well as the principle of ‘male headship’ (that men hold positions of authority in congregations and headship in the family). Scripturally, only men can make decisions. Other scripture-based policies include the sanctions of reproval (a form of discipline that allows a perpetrator to remain in the congregation), disfellowshipping (exclusion or excommunication as a form of punishment for serious scriptural wrongdoing), and shunning (an instruction to the congregation not to associate with a disfellowshipped person). As long as the Jehovah’s Witness organisation continues to apply these practices in its response to allegations of child sexual abuse, it will remain an organisation that does not respond adequately to child sexual abuse and that fails to protect children.
    We recommend that the Jehovah’s Witness organisation abandon its application of the two-witness rule in cases involving complaints of child sexual abuse (Recommendation 16.27), revise its policies so that women are involved in processes relating to investigating and determining allegations of child sexual abuse (Recommendation 16.28), and no longer require its members to shun those who disassociate from the organisation in cases where the reason for disassociation is related to a person being a victim of child sexual abuse (Recommendation 16.29).
    We welcome the inclusion in the recently published Child safeguarding policy of Jehovah’s Witnesses in Australia of a requirement to report child sexual abuse to civil authorities in cases where elders consider that a child may still be at risk of harm. The Jehovah’s Witness organisation should also amend all of its policies and procedures relating to child sexual abuse to ensure that this requirement is included.
    Which of these was posted on the WTJWorg official site for JW members to read? Did they post a link like you did at this club?
  6. Downvote
    Srecko Sostar got a reaction from NoisySrecko in Child sexual abuse has been found in most major UK religions   
    So why then does the WTJWorg official site not put on its site the complete video program and all the ARC records to be available to any orthodox JW who is not on other platforms like me and others like me?
    I am a regular guest on this Forum, for now. Sometimes I leave a comment on another YT video or someone’s blog or whatever it’s called, a page or something. So it’s not a problem that I have the freedom to choose and view other people’s content elsewhere. But you make a big question out of it. Am I interested in which platforms you operate on? Not. But you’re someone who checks other people’s internet activity and then forges your own theories. Relax a little, please nice.
  7. Downvote
    Srecko Sostar got a reaction from NoisySrecko in Child sexual abuse has been found in most major UK religions   
    Do all abusers "look" this awful? Or do you mistakenly promote the image of abusers looking messy and neglected? 
  8. Downvote
    Srecko Sostar got a reaction from NoisySrecko in Child sexual abuse has been found in most major UK religions   
    Yes, if we count few individuals at this Forum, called Jehovah's Witnesses Open Club, with informative topics.
    This Open JW Club is in fact "illegal" in the eyes of WTJWorg and GB and Legal Department. In what sense  "illegal"?  The title of club contains the name Jehovah's Witnesses. I assume that the name Jehovah's Witnesses  is the intellectual property of WTJWorg and should not be used without their consent. Because the club does not have the approval of the GB to promote JW religious ideas beyond/out of the range of official JW religious teachings of the JW Church and outside the official JW channels. Because this club does not have the GB approval to conduct any debate that calls into question the JW religious system. Because there is no GB approval for the discussion to be led by current and former JW members (discussion of this type, ie interaction between current and former members is actually completely forbidden by GB). If the JW elders of the congregations, to which the members of this club belong, learned that these JW brothers and sisters are members of this club and that they are participants in the discussions, they would be invited to serious conversation and at least warned if not rebuked or even excluded / dfd from the JW assembly.
    The claim that JW members are aware of the prevalence of CSA within the JW church is arbitrary and I am not sure that your picture is correct regarding their awareness of CSA. One young brother (approximately 30 years old) told me directly in 2015 that he did not believe in the CSA within the JW and that he did not believe in court rulings in this regard. He recently became an elder in my former congregation. It is to be expected that his position on this issue has not changed, that is, that he is still in a state of denial. CSA is at least 50 years inside WTJWorg. I found about real CSA JW victims with name and face and court rulings only in "secular" sources, not on pages of WTJWorg magazines or their videos.
    Oh man. You are "worst" than them.   If 30 year old JW male member claimed how this are all lies, in 2015, and one GB member made similar claim on JWTV, then problem is not about "how to deal" with something (CSA in this moment), but about general denial that CSA exist inside WTJWorg. Other GB member made different view when made public statements.
     
     
    I'm glad you mentioned that. When I realized that the topic could become a source of misinformation because I didn’t understand the English text in the video well, so I misinterpreted it, deleting the topic was a good choice, in my opinion. If the owner of this Forum thought I should have reacted differently, then he would certainly have warned me about it. But that is his right as the owner, not yours. If I have offended your feelings by deleting that topic, then I apologize to you. I hope that one day in the future you will be able to forget that topic and move on with your healed feelings. 
    Regarding solutions. Your solutions and counsels or recommendations, that without doubt are good, would be, i guess, welcomed in WTJWorg if you deliver to them in writing. WTJWorg is a large system that has millions of members and millions of those associated with them. So, if they got the information you have about solving a CSA problem, you would do a good deed that would benefit millions. 
    On contrary, i am only on this platform, JW Open Club. Please, tell us all here, what are those names of "all over the place" where i am and, allegedly, participate, and supposedly, I make an impact on millions ?   
    And you thought I was an expert on this subject? 
  9. Downvote
    Srecko Sostar got a reaction from NoisySrecko in Child sexual abuse has been found in most major UK religions   
    I agree with your prediction you repeated several times on various topics. This only proves that the WTJWorg Administration along with its members is dormant in its self-confidence of living in a “spiritual paradise”. Poor internal communication, poor policies and rules of conduct in critical situations, poor education, in general, and especially for CSA. The fact that they are capable organizers for construction projects and the purchase / sale of real estate is not enough.
  10. Like
    Srecko Sostar got a reaction from Kick_Faceinator in Child sexual abuse has been found in most major UK religions   
    I agree with your prediction you repeated several times on various topics. This only proves that the WTJWorg Administration along with its members is dormant in its self-confidence of living in a “spiritual paradise”. Poor internal communication, poor policies and rules of conduct in critical situations, poor education, in general, and especially for CSA. The fact that they are capable organizers for construction projects and the purchase / sale of real estate is not enough.
  11. Thanks
    Srecko Sostar reacted to Patiently waiting for Truth in Child sexual abuse has been found in most major UK religions   
    But it proves where their hearts and minds are. 
  12. Like
    Srecko Sostar reacted to Patiently waiting for Truth in Latest Info on JW.org Ramapo Audio Video Production Center   
    So that's it.  Bunkers under Warwick and under Ramapo, all linked together by underground tunnels. 
    When the big trouble starts the GB and their Lawyers & helpers et al, will all go underground.
    All paid for by donations and built by slaves of the Org.  
  13. Upvote
    Srecko Sostar got a reaction from Patiently waiting for Truth in Child sexual abuse has been found in most major UK religions   
    I agree with your prediction you repeated several times on various topics. This only proves that the WTJWorg Administration along with its members is dormant in its self-confidence of living in a “spiritual paradise”. Poor internal communication, poor policies and rules of conduct in critical situations, poor education, in general, and especially for CSA. The fact that they are capable organizers for construction projects and the purchase / sale of real estate is not enough.
  14. Upvote
    Srecko Sostar reacted to Patiently waiting for Truth in Latest Info on JW.org Ramapo Audio Video Production Center   
    It doesn't show the underground bunkers though  
  15. Like
    Srecko Sostar reacted to Witness in Millions Now Living Will Never Die! by J.F. Rutherford ??????????? A few questions.   
    I am in error here and I apologize.  Even though the army (Ezek 38:4,7; Joel 2:1-5;1:4,6; Rev 9: 2,3,7-9,5; 13:11,12,5-7)  that comes against remnant of God’s holy saints in the last days is massive and devastating, that army is not the “sand of the sea”.  This, refers to God’s people - Gen 22:17; Gal 3:26; Hos 1:10; 1 Pet 2:5,9,10
  16. Downvote
    Srecko Sostar got a reaction from NoisySrecko in Millions Now Living Will Never Die! by J.F. Rutherford ??????????? A few questions.   
    At the very beginning of my comment, I have to notice how intensely you have given down votes to a large number of my comments since your name appeared on the forum. Now for the second time you call me a friend and even more, dear friend. I don’t mind either way of communicating. But friend, let me say a few words about what you wrote.
    The example from the desert and the example of Jerusalem have one thing in common when it comes to the time period of these events. Both events culminated in a short period, in just a few decades. As for the people in the desert, the report sets the time at 40 years, and as for Jerusalem, from Jesus ’words uttered in 33 CE to 70 CE, 37 years have passed.
    Well we see, when WTJWorg today, draws parallels and interpretations then it has obviously lost sight of the fact that the representative/s of each generation from both examples was/were at the beginning and end of the one and same event. There is no so called "overlap" in WTJWorg sense of meaning. Today’s doctrine of the “overlapping generation” that JWs preach, to themselves for the most part, has gone completely beyond the time frame of the biblical examples you cited. 
    Why I emphasized the word today. Because WTJWorg has in the past announced Armageddon within a small number of years (one or two, three decades). Today, with the "overlapping generation", they are trying to get out of his own theology, which they imposed so strongly in the past. But again, they limited themselves in time frame, as it is hard for them to admit that Armageddon may not come for the next 50-100 years either. If they talked about it publicly in that way, they would be left without most of the membership, which is now in the organization. Well, they again limited themselves in time to two overlapping generations. Fortunately for them, the term they invented will give future WTJWorg theologians the opportunity to juggle terminology and a new interpretation for future generations of JW members.
    The behavior of humanity does not encourage people to look to the future with hope, we agree. But how far can that go? If God wants to save the innocent and from destroying the planet earth, he does not have to wait for the future. It could have done this many times already in the 20th century.., and not just because of the destruction of the planet. Well, do JWs think God will be motivated by a desire to save planet Earth to start Armageddon? Shouldn't his motive be primarily due to the destruction of human lives that have suffered from powerful people and villains from the ancient past to the present?
     
  17. Like
    Srecko Sostar reacted to Pudgy in Millions Now Living Will Never Die! by J.F. Rutherford ??????????? A few questions.   
    Remember this, Jehovah God foretold and had a Prophet  declare the news that Nineveh the Great City  would be destroyed.
    Then, for reasons of his own, he changed his mind.
  18. Upvote
    Srecko Sostar got a reaction from Pudgy in Millions Now Living Will Never Die! by J.F. Rutherford ??????????? A few questions.   
    I suppose this could be analyzed from more than one aspect, and then some conclusions drawn.
    What the JWs are preaching, and you have now repeated, in relation to the above events is that the number and frequency of events is directly related to the prophecy of Jesus and the year 1914. Although, I don’t think anywhere in Jesus ’words can one hear or see that Jesus said and linked the increase in frequency and number of events to prophecy. Jesus did not say a single word that in the future there would be more wars, more diseases, more famines, and the like, than there were in their time.
    In fact, it came to an end in their time (70 CE). So, the number of wars, earthquakes, famines and the like remained, i guess, on average during that time (1st century) which he marked "the end of the system of things" .., for the Jews. The End in which "there is no stone left unturned."
    How an earthquake occurs. These are the seismic processes that (God) built into planet Earth during creation, during formation. The decrease or increase in the number of earthquakes should be related to the state of the geological processes of the planets, and not to whether people are evil, and therefore they are reached by the prophecy of earthquakes in which they lose their lives. Earthquakes do not take place because people are evil or because people live in the “last days”.
    Wars, on the other hand, can be attributed to human character. Poverty and hunger (on global scale) are also often times associated with the decisions of the people who run the states. Because not all people in the world are starving. If everyone in the world were starving, would that be a fulfillment of prophecy? Or is the fulfillment of the prophecy a periodic starvation in certain parts of the world? Is the poverty of some parts of human society the fulfillment of prophecy? What is poverty? Is it when you have less than $ 500 a month, or less than $ 2500 a month?
    According to Rutherford, the "time of the end" is a period of time when millions will not die, but will live forever. What a delightful sensation he caused in most of his listeners, and how at the same time he uttered the greatest nonsense. And all those people died, and we're talking about them now.
  19. Thanks
    Srecko Sostar reacted to JW Insider in Rare video footage of Judge Rutherford at Beth-Sarim San Diego CA.   
    The video was shown at Bethel to the entire family, and I don't think it would have been shown if those who made that decision to show it, thought that it definitely showed him in a drunken condition. However, there are at least two other pictures of Rutherford that show him in a condition that is almost the definition of what we would expect a drunk to look like.
    But Brother Rutherford evidently did [allegedly] suffer from alcoholism, and it was not always apparent when he was under the influence. Hayden Covington, the Society's attorney, has admitted this to others, and even to relatives of mine. Of course, Hayden Covington, was himself an admitted alcoholic, who was disfellowshipped for related behavior. So his claims might be biased. On the other hand, the elder who was my own table head at Bethel said the same about Rutherford, and much more. Another friend of mine from Bethel, Arthur Worsley, Brother Swingle's roommate before Lyman married Crystal, has admitted that he lied under oath to protect Rutherford out of fear of being kicked out of Bethel at the Olin Moyle trial.
    (The previous Society attorney before Covington was Olin Moyle, who felt it necessary to write a letter to Rutherford about abusive behavior, and even complained that Rutherford had been making arrangements to illegally bring in liquor from Canada during Prohibition. When Rutherford went public about Moyle in the pages of the Watchtower, where Rutherford railed against Moyle as an "evil slave," the case finally went to court, where Rutherford lost and had to pay Moyle $30,000 - reduced to $15,000 in an appeal in 1944. An anti-Moyle resolution was even adopted at the 1941 St. Louis assembly naming Olin Moyle as an "evil slave.")
    Don't know if the booklet from the 1930's is related to Rutherford's alleged alcoholism, but it is titled "Prohibition and the League of Nations - Born of God or the Devil, Which?" Rutherford had spoken out against liquor prohibition as "born from the Devil" as far back as 1924 or earlier. 
  20. Upvote
    Srecko Sostar got a reaction from JW Insider in Millions Now Living Will Never Die! by J.F. Rutherford ??????????? A few questions.   
    At the very beginning of my comment, I have to notice how intensely you have given down votes to a large number of my comments since your name appeared on the forum. Now for the second time you call me a friend and even more, dear friend. I don’t mind either way of communicating. But friend, let me say a few words about what you wrote.
    The example from the desert and the example of Jerusalem have one thing in common when it comes to the time period of these events. Both events culminated in a short period, in just a few decades. As for the people in the desert, the report sets the time at 40 years, and as for Jerusalem, from Jesus ’words uttered in 33 CE to 70 CE, 37 years have passed.
    Well we see, when WTJWorg today, draws parallels and interpretations then it has obviously lost sight of the fact that the representative/s of each generation from both examples was/were at the beginning and end of the one and same event. There is no so called "overlap" in WTJWorg sense of meaning. Today’s doctrine of the “overlapping generation” that JWs preach, to themselves for the most part, has gone completely beyond the time frame of the biblical examples you cited. 
    Why I emphasized the word today. Because WTJWorg has in the past announced Armageddon within a small number of years (one or two, three decades). Today, with the "overlapping generation", they are trying to get out of his own theology, which they imposed so strongly in the past. But again, they limited themselves in time frame, as it is hard for them to admit that Armageddon may not come for the next 50-100 years either. If they talked about it publicly in that way, they would be left without most of the membership, which is now in the organization. Well, they again limited themselves in time to two overlapping generations. Fortunately for them, the term they invented will give future WTJWorg theologians the opportunity to juggle terminology and a new interpretation for future generations of JW members.
    The behavior of humanity does not encourage people to look to the future with hope, we agree. But how far can that go? If God wants to save the innocent and from destroying the planet earth, he does not have to wait for the future. It could have done this many times already in the 20th century.., and not just because of the destruction of the planet. Well, do JWs think God will be motivated by a desire to save planet Earth to start Armageddon? Shouldn't his motive be primarily due to the destruction of human lives that have suffered from powerful people and villains from the ancient past to the present?
     
  21. Like
    Srecko Sostar got a reaction from Kick_Faceinator in Millions Now Living Will Never Die! by J.F. Rutherford ??????????? A few questions.   
    At the very beginning of my comment, I have to notice how intensely you have given down votes to a large number of my comments since your name appeared on the forum. Now for the second time you call me a friend and even more, dear friend. I don’t mind either way of communicating. But friend, let me say a few words about what you wrote.
    The example from the desert and the example of Jerusalem have one thing in common when it comes to the time period of these events. Both events culminated in a short period, in just a few decades. As for the people in the desert, the report sets the time at 40 years, and as for Jerusalem, from Jesus ’words uttered in 33 CE to 70 CE, 37 years have passed.
    Well we see, when WTJWorg today, draws parallels and interpretations then it has obviously lost sight of the fact that the representative/s of each generation from both examples was/were at the beginning and end of the one and same event. There is no so called "overlap" in WTJWorg sense of meaning. Today’s doctrine of the “overlapping generation” that JWs preach, to themselves for the most part, has gone completely beyond the time frame of the biblical examples you cited. 
    Why I emphasized the word today. Because WTJWorg has in the past announced Armageddon within a small number of years (one or two, three decades). Today, with the "overlapping generation", they are trying to get out of his own theology, which they imposed so strongly in the past. But again, they limited themselves in time frame, as it is hard for them to admit that Armageddon may not come for the next 50-100 years either. If they talked about it publicly in that way, they would be left without most of the membership, which is now in the organization. Well, they again limited themselves in time to two overlapping generations. Fortunately for them, the term they invented will give future WTJWorg theologians the opportunity to juggle terminology and a new interpretation for future generations of JW members.
    The behavior of humanity does not encourage people to look to the future with hope, we agree. But how far can that go? If God wants to save the innocent and from destroying the planet earth, he does not have to wait for the future. It could have done this many times already in the 20th century.., and not just because of the destruction of the planet. Well, do JWs think God will be motivated by a desire to save planet Earth to start Armageddon? Shouldn't his motive be primarily due to the destruction of human lives that have suffered from powerful people and villains from the ancient past to the present?
     
  22. Upvote
    Srecko Sostar got a reaction from Pudgy in Millions Now Living Will Never Die! by J.F. Rutherford ??????????? A few questions.   
    At the very beginning of my comment, I have to notice how intensely you have given down votes to a large number of my comments since your name appeared on the forum. Now for the second time you call me a friend and even more, dear friend. I don’t mind either way of communicating. But friend, let me say a few words about what you wrote.
    The example from the desert and the example of Jerusalem have one thing in common when it comes to the time period of these events. Both events culminated in a short period, in just a few decades. As for the people in the desert, the report sets the time at 40 years, and as for Jerusalem, from Jesus ’words uttered in 33 CE to 70 CE, 37 years have passed.
    Well we see, when WTJWorg today, draws parallels and interpretations then it has obviously lost sight of the fact that the representative/s of each generation from both examples was/were at the beginning and end of the one and same event. There is no so called "overlap" in WTJWorg sense of meaning. Today’s doctrine of the “overlapping generation” that JWs preach, to themselves for the most part, has gone completely beyond the time frame of the biblical examples you cited. 
    Why I emphasized the word today. Because WTJWorg has in the past announced Armageddon within a small number of years (one or two, three decades). Today, with the "overlapping generation", they are trying to get out of his own theology, which they imposed so strongly in the past. But again, they limited themselves in time frame, as it is hard for them to admit that Armageddon may not come for the next 50-100 years either. If they talked about it publicly in that way, they would be left without most of the membership, which is now in the organization. Well, they again limited themselves in time to two overlapping generations. Fortunately for them, the term they invented will give future WTJWorg theologians the opportunity to juggle terminology and a new interpretation for future generations of JW members.
    The behavior of humanity does not encourage people to look to the future with hope, we agree. But how far can that go? If God wants to save the innocent and from destroying the planet earth, he does not have to wait for the future. It could have done this many times already in the 20th century.., and not just because of the destruction of the planet. Well, do JWs think God will be motivated by a desire to save planet Earth to start Armageddon? Shouldn't his motive be primarily due to the destruction of human lives that have suffered from powerful people and villains from the ancient past to the present?
     
  23. Upvote
    Srecko Sostar reacted to Witness in They're better as a group, than they are individually - (observations from the outside)   
    No, they are not impossible to understand, it’s just that you chose the wrong analogy.  GB member A. Morris once said that as the apostles had set decrees, so too, does the governing body.  They have set their own analogy, in the manner of the apostles.  But since these teach an earthly organization can be “inspired”, (“spirit-directed organization”), (Rev 13:15)   while they personally are not, truthfully they are false apostles.  “For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into apostles of Christ.” 2 Cor 11:13
    Since they pass doctrine and forecast dates of Armageddon and the coming Kingdom, they set their own analogy as prophets.  But since these doctrines and predictions fail, they are truthfully, false prophets. “Then many false prophets will rise up and deceive many.”  Matt 24:11
    Since they only, among all anointed, take on the role of dispensing spiritual food, they have set their own analogy as the “faithful and discreet slave”, teachers solely in charge of providing “fruit”/sustenance for the house of God.  But since their teachings do not last, but rot, they are in essence, false teachers.  “But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them—bringing swift destruction on themselves.”  2 Pet 2:1  “So then, you will recognize them by their fruit.”  Matt 7:20
    Putting themselves ahead of all Christ’s brothers and sisters, has set their own analogy as already deemed the “faithful and discreet slave”, but since they silence the anointed by telling them to obey the exalted elder body(2 Thess 2:3,4; Rev 11:1,2), which prevents them from acting as the priest/teachers God appointed them to be - offering their daily sacrifice as they should (Dan 8:11,12) – this GB is truthfully, the evil slave of Matt 24:48-51.  “The kings (elders) of the Gentiles rule over their subjects, and those in authority over them (over the Gentile elders) are called ‘friends of the people.’(GB)  But that’s not the way it will be with you. Instead, the greatest among you must become like a person of lower status and the leader like a servant.”  Luke 22:25-26
    These men set their own analogy by stating they are servants of Christ – "anointed" ones  following the path Jesus set before us.   But since they “kill” their own brothers and sisters who cannot accept their false teachings (Rev 13:11,12,15), they are truthfully, false “christs”.  “False christs and false prophets will appear, and they will offer signs and wonders in order to deceive, if possible, those whom God has chosen.”  Mark 13:22 
    There are many analogies to make concerning the GB, but Cyrus is not one of them.
     
     
     
  24. Upvote
    Srecko Sostar got a reaction from Kick_Faceinator in They're better as a group, than they are individually - (observations from the outside)   
    To me, this sounds like God would need people to destroy each other for the sake of the Bible, translations and interpretations. 
    * red text highlighted by me
    I am not sure how to understand this. Who are "non inspired prophets" who have made "inspired works"?
    The reasons why someone dies for the “truth of Christ” need to be learned from the person himself. JW, Catholics, Protestants, etc. suffer for their version of truth about Christ.
    This is the first time I have heard that someone is dying today because of a (specific or any) translation of the Bible. Maybe there are people who have a Bible, and the state forbids them to have one. But then I would say that ultimately these people suffer because they don’t want to renounce God from the Bible, not because of the book itself which is made of paper. If they are hiding the Bible from the authorities and risking their lives for it, then they should ask themselves what is worth more: The book or their life?
    Certainly, I agree that one should be true to his principles and pay the price for it. But where to go, how far, with the principles. Well, the Bible itself says that it is "better to be a living dog than a dead lion." However one wants to interpret this saying. And it can be interpreted in many ways, right?
    Do people die because of the "truth", for the "truth" or because of/for their "belonging to something"?
    But you will agree that preference should be given to life and not death. 
    Because, if a man has sinned while he is alive, he can repent and start again. And when he surrenders to death because he thinks that with his death he will please God, then that is debatable. Because, he died for his vision of the truth about God. And the question is, was that true at all. At this JW club, it is constantly proven that “truth” is changing within this religious community. I don’t know how it is with other religions and how often they change their interpretations and dogmas. Perhaps you have some information and can make comparison with JW.
     
     
  25. Upvote
    Srecko Sostar got a reaction from Kick_Faceinator in Millions Now Living Will Never Die! by J.F. Rutherford ??????????? A few questions.   
    I suppose this could be analyzed from more than one aspect, and then some conclusions drawn.
    What the JWs are preaching, and you have now repeated, in relation to the above events is that the number and frequency of events is directly related to the prophecy of Jesus and the year 1914. Although, I don’t think anywhere in Jesus ’words can one hear or see that Jesus said and linked the increase in frequency and number of events to prophecy. Jesus did not say a single word that in the future there would be more wars, more diseases, more famines, and the like, than there were in their time.
    In fact, it came to an end in their time (70 CE). So, the number of wars, earthquakes, famines and the like remained, i guess, on average during that time (1st century) which he marked "the end of the system of things" .., for the Jews. The End in which "there is no stone left unturned."
    How an earthquake occurs. These are the seismic processes that (God) built into planet Earth during creation, during formation. The decrease or increase in the number of earthquakes should be related to the state of the geological processes of the planets, and not to whether people are evil, and therefore they are reached by the prophecy of earthquakes in which they lose their lives. Earthquakes do not take place because people are evil or because people live in the “last days”.
    Wars, on the other hand, can be attributed to human character. Poverty and hunger (on global scale) are also often times associated with the decisions of the people who run the states. Because not all people in the world are starving. If everyone in the world were starving, would that be a fulfillment of prophecy? Or is the fulfillment of the prophecy a periodic starvation in certain parts of the world? Is the poverty of some parts of human society the fulfillment of prophecy? What is poverty? Is it when you have less than $ 500 a month, or less than $ 2500 a month?
    According to Rutherford, the "time of the end" is a period of time when millions will not die, but will live forever. What a delightful sensation he caused in most of his listeners, and how at the same time he uttered the greatest nonsense. And all those people died, and we're talking about them now.
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

Terms of Service Confirmation Terms of Use Privacy Policy Guidelines We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.