Forum participants we have known

[JW Insider]

On 2/26/2024 at 3:33 PM, Many Miles said:

I identified AlanF as someone I knew. 

AlanF commented quite often on this forum when he was alive. He and @scholar JW had a history going back for many years —decades—according to scholar JW. Same with Ann O’maly whom scholar JW also appeared to have communicated with for many past years. 

I hated AlanF’s position on evolution and complete dismissal of much of Genesis but I appreciated that both he and Ann O’maly were much more knowledgeable about neo-Babylonian chronology that I am. By a long shot. They both corrected me publicly with good evidence on several mistakes I made here while learning the topic. I always appreciate corrections by anyone, even a "public reproof." 

[Many Miles]

30 minutes ago, JW Insider said:

AlanF commented quite often ...

AlanF would talk about Neo-Babylonian chronology until my eyes glazed and my ears were bleeding, and he'd still only be at the start of what he wanted to share. I'd have to open a bottle of fine wine and break off a piece of well-molded and stinky cheese to get him on another topic so I could rest.

[TrueTomHarley]

6 hours ago, Many Miles said:

AlanF would talk about Neo-Babylonian chronology until my eyes glazed and my ears were bleeding, and he'd still only be at the start of what he wanted to share. I'd have to open a bottle of fine wine and break off a piece of well-molded and stinky cheese to get him on another topic so I could rest.

Never in my life had I encountered a more unpleasant person than AlanF. He was fine if you acquiesced to him . . . but if you disagreed to any significant degree, he would launch incredible streams of non-stop insults. My greatest fear was that his cherished evolution teachings might be correct and that he was the end result. Without specifically naming him, (which would be mean) ‘In the Last of the Last Days’ tells of a voracious opponent whose headstone no doubt calls the cemetery caretaker a moron for supposing the surrounding flowers are creations of God. 

I didn’t like him very much.

[Many Miles]

8 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

Never in my life had I encountered a more unpleasant person than AlanF.

He could be tough, and rightly so. For instance, anyone who held a belief they would attempt to persuade others to believe, he held to an extremely high level of academic rigor, evidence and logically sound conclusions. It didn't matter if you were a friend. He held everyone attempting to teach to the same standard. He held himself to that standard too. In his mind if you taught but failed to stand up and defend what you taught, you were a coward and he'd say so in just that many words. He had  more respect for fools who'd stand up for foolish teachings than he did for teachers who refused to be transparent and stand and answer for what they taught.

His sense of humor was a bit dry and high-brow. To really see and feel his sense of humor you had to meet him in person. It rarely, if ever, came across in text-only formats, except for those who knew him in person and understood his humor. AlanF was a product of his raising, environment and high personal drive to know what could be known.

[JW Insider]

25 minutes ago, Many Miles said:

He held himself to that standard too. In his mind if you taught but failed to stand up and defend what you taught, you were a coward and he'd say so in just that many words.

A high academic standard, yes. He graduated from MIT. But he left a trail of insults on this forum that would make a sailor blush. And that was mostly in response to foolish goading from @scholar JWand back and forth escalations of insults between him and [username="César Chávez"], it's not like people were generally cursing at him and he was just responding in kind. 

"César Chávez" is still with us here by the way, under different user names. (For those who care, that apparently also includes the JW Closed Club, so far just as an auditor, not a participant.)

[TrueTomHarley]

34 minutes ago, Many Miles said:

He held everyone attempting to teach to the same standard. He held himself to that standard too. In his mind if you taught but failed to stand up and defend what you taught

The trouble with those who worship critical thinking is that they often presume they have a lock on the stuff. He did not suffer fools gladly, and a fool was anyone who disagreed with him.

To be sure, I used to egg him on a little. But I would later regret it. The self-congratulatory donkey could chew up an entire day.

[Many Miles]

1 minute ago, TrueTomHarley said:

The trouble with those who worship critical thinking is that they often presume they have a lock on the stuff. He did not suffer fools gladly, and a fool was anyone who disagreed with him.

To be sure, I used to egg him on a little. But I would later regret it. The self-congratulatory donkey could chew up an entire day.

Sounds like you knew him in his later years. By then he had settled down a bit.

[Many Miles]

27 minutes ago, JW Insider said:

A high academic standard, yes. He graduated from MIT.

He always downplayed that.

27 minutes ago, JW Insider said:

But he left a trail of insults on this forum that would make a sailor blush.

From what I've read here, nothing like the H2O days though.

But, honestly, he was one of the rarefied souls who could argue with a stupid person and beat them with their own experience. He'd use it mercilessly as a club. It was no holds barred stuff. Not saying it's the righteous path, but he could release on demand.

[TrueTomHarley]

2 hours ago, Many Miles said:

Sounds like you knew him in his later years. By then he had settled down a bit.

There are some magnificent threads buried within. Probably, just typing ‘AlanF’ into the search box will bring up a few.

2 hours ago, Many Miles said:

But, honestly, he was one of the rarefied souls who could argue with a stupid person and beat them with their own experience. He'd use it mercilessly as a club.

The trouble is, if you held to faith, you were one of those ‘stupid people’ to him. I detest these people who think they can muscle through on brainpower alone. “By their fruits you will know them,” holds no sway with them. Not saying anything of him personally, but you would think people would assess critical thinking by the world it has collectively produced. It has been the chief export of universities for some time now, and few world leaders are not university-equipped. 

Witnesses, on the other hand, though not without the minor mishaps stemming from being ‘earthen vessels,’ have achieved a peacefulness, unity, cohesiveness, that the world can only dream of. Pew Research says their membership (in the U.S.) is almost exactly 1/3 white, 1/3 black, and 1/3 Hispanic, with about 5% Asian thrown in. Translation: They have solved racism, the issue that is ripping this world apart, despite its educational advantage.

Brotherly love is a concept that works, but it does not stand well up to ‘reason,’ especially reason with evolution at its root. It is not a concept that lends itself well to ‘proof.’ The truths that are declared ‘self-evident,’ that ‘all men are created equal,’ are not at all self-evident to those evolution-based. What is self-evident to them is the 2001 Space Odyssey humanoid discovering he can beat the snot out of his competitor with a leg bone, whereupon he throws it into the air and out comes this spacecraft to Jupiter. 

[Many Miles]

31 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

The trouble is, if you held to faith, you were one of those ‘stupid people’ to him. I detest these people who think they can muscle through on brainpower alone.

People deserve more than that. Where's your love for a tortured man? AlanF just wanted things people say to make sense. If they didn't make sense he found it troublesome if they tried to persuade others to accept their senselessness. His reaction was appropriately more averse when a senseless teacher had power to adversely affect someone's life over their senselessness.

He and I had calm and collected discussions about faith, including my own, which for the most part he yielded to as reasonable. When speaking about faith with someone like AlanF you must chose your evidence and presentation carefully. A mind like his would spot stupid in a nanosecond.

31 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

Witnesses, on the other hand, though not without the minor mishaps stemming from being ‘earthen vessels,’ have achieved a peacefulness, unity, cohesiveness, that the world can only dream of. Pew Research says their membership (in the U.S.) is almost exactly 1/3 white, 1/3 black, and 1/3 Hispanic, with about 5% Asian thrown in. Translation: They have solved racism, the issue that is ripping this world apart, despite its educational advantage.

Racism is but one of many obstacles facing humanity. We certainly have not achieved a "peacefulness, unity, cohesiveness, that the world can only dream of." We can't hold onto our own children. According to the same source you cite (PEW), as adults, nearly 70% of person's raised in the religion no longer identify with it. That's not very unified or cohesive. It's probably not very conducive to a peaceful family life either given the shunning taught by the society. More than racism, two larger issues ripping humanity for millennia is politics and religion.

[BTK59]

3 hours ago, Many Miles said:

he was one of the rarefied souls who could argue with a stupid person

Does this mean he argued with himself or just individuals who possess superior skills and qualifications compared to himself?

[BTK59]

Ah, how I long to indulge in the nostalgic memories of ex-Elders recounting their tales of disdain towards the Watchtower. This timeless tradition still persists, as even current Ministerial Servants contribute to the discourse. Together, they expose the deceitfulness underlying their misguided encounters with the Watchtower. Remarkably, it appears that not much has changed in the last decade except for the addition of new participants to this ongoing saga, each stepping in as time claims another.