Srecko Sostar

Perhaps, after all, "spiritual food" from "JHVH table" is not free and available "for all people". 
WTJWorg is Company. Everything has to be paid for there. Either with voluntary contributions and work or through lawsuits. And "free speech issue" is something reserved only for WT lawyers to defend on courts. :))
Imagine Jesus which would not allow others to quote, cited him without his permission. Can you? Should you?
And GB+Helpers (with WT lawyers) should be role models to others (JW members first) to imitate their faith and works ... in suing other people because they replay (copy-paste) so-called  "Jesus's teaching" ??  :))

Perhaps yes, perhaps no. It seems how you and elders have suspicion that she was sincere. 
Maybe elders would be do better to ask police about it before making decision that she is "harlot" or "adulteress".

Purpose of this Forum is unknown to me. Owners knows real meaning and reasons for existing.
But I am glad to be user and participant in various topics, and can say, "Thanks" for this Forum. 
Of course that you are right when said how this Forum can "vanish into the abyss I don’t think they would miss it." if you ask WTJWorg. In fact they would be very happy to see this happen. Because our conversation challenging WT doctrines and revealing how this religion often manipulate with people's emotions and minds. And how they are ready to deceive and to change rhetoric  when it is need. 
For example, Geoffrey Jackson, GB member aka Top Manager of Society, publicly claimed before ARC how they, GB, are not the only spokesperson for God on Earth. On other hand they teaching members how they have to obey  GB in all instructions and follow the leadership of GB, because that is only way to survive Armageddon. 
I am almost surprised that you Tom gave such bad review about this Forum and tell others that they waste their time here on this Forum.  Perhaps JWorg have some better "Forum"? I hope you would take participation there, in the same manner you doing here. :))

@Srecko Sostart is unfortunate that, we humans, have lost our inner feelings for right and wrong, and that/how belonging to something (religion, politics, philosophy, etc.) becomes a method by which certain good values are achieved or which lead to the opposite side, to the side of evil.
That is why I left the JW organisation, because I DO know right from wrong.    JWs hide in their Org and just see ex JWs and victims of CSA as collateral damage. 
JWs become more like machines, having no real feelings, just obeying the GB through the Elders. They give up their consciences to be accepted in the 'club'. They stop looking for truth because they don't want to find it. They are happy in their 'social club' of 'friends' all serving their GB. 
It is more likely the EX-JWs, that left of their own choice, that will have inner feelings for right and wrong   because they joined the JW org for the right reasons, then they also left the JW Org for the right reasons too. 
It is so obvious to me that a person cannot be a JW and have a good active Bible trained conscience. The two completely contradict one another.  

Are you or some other JW's invited to the evening meal, marriage celebration? When, where and how? Literally or symbolically? How looks interpretation/s? And what Bible verses supports this sort of interpretations?

The National Secular Society has urged Britain's charity regulators to ensure the restructuring of Jehovah's Witnesses (JW) charities does not obstruct victims of child abuse from claiming compensation.
The NSS has raised the issue with the Charity Commission for England and Wales and the Scottish charity regulator, OSCR, after a report on BBC Radio 4's Sunday programme this week.
The programme reported that the church is selling off substantial amounts of property and land that it owns. As part of a significant restructuring of the organisation, each congregation is being asked to dissolve its charitable status and merge – along with its assets – with the Kingdom Hall Trust.
The trust is a registered charity whose aims include being a "custodian trustee holding title to freehold and leasehold properties acquired as places of worship".
The assets mentioned on the Sunday programme included kingdom halls, which are used for worship and meetings.
An abuse survivor and lawyers who spoke to the programme expressed concern that such a restructuring could leave JW charities unable to pay potential liabilities.
A number of JW churches worldwide have been subject to investigations regarding their handling of sexual abuse allegations in recent years. In Australia, JW organisations have consolidated and sold properties worth millions of pounds amid a series of legal claims and a damning report from a royal commission.
NSS comment
NSS chief executive Stephen Evans said: "It is clearly not in the public interest for charities to be permitted to restructure in ways that may impede victims and survivors of abuse within these communities from claiming compensation.
"We therefore urge the Charity Commission to use all available powers to ensure that the restructuring of JW charities does not impede abuse victims' and survivors' ability to obtain settlements."
Jehovah's Witnesses and abuse in Britain
JW communities' handling of abuse allegations will come under increased scrutiny next month, when the Independent Inquiry on Child Sexual Abuse is due to conduct hearings on the issue.
In 2018 scores of alleged victims accused the JWs of a culture of cover-up of child sexual abuse. Earlier this year at least 20 former JWs launched legal action over abuse which they say they suffered.
In 2017 the Charity Commission severely criticised the New Moston Congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses in Manchester over its handling of allegations of abuse.
And in 2016 the Supreme Court ruled that the Watch Tower and Bible Tract Society of Great Britain, which oversees JW congregations, couldn't prevent the commission from conducting an inquiry over its handling of abuse allegations.
This week's episode of the Sunday programme is available on the BBC website; listen from 5:20 to 21:45 for the relevant section.

No Tom. I tried to show how our "courage" to do "right thing" depending and/or not depending on external and internal "threats". 

@TrueTomHarley
... thanks for long post. Praiseworthy and worthy to imitate, try to follow an example, every example that respects and saves lives. 
It is unfortunate that, we humans, have lost our inner feelings for right and wrong, and that/how belonging to something (religion, politics, philosophy, etc.) becomes a method by which certain good values are achieved or which lead to the opposite side, to the side of evil.
Let us not forget that many who were willing to sacrifice themselves in this way for others, perhaps, in another circumstance, are willing to do something that nullifies their great sacrifice they have made. Imagine, I'm hiding a JW brother or a non-JW person from the massacre yesterday .... and today I completely ignore (shun) on the road someone who has stopped being a JW brother for some reason. Or even more frighteningly, consciously or unconsciously, JW’s brother supports wrong instructions regarding how to deal with cases of pedophilia. And how the victims of pedophilia “die” because no one has “hidden” them from the villains and from those who have allowed evil to continue to happen.
So Tom, it should be said that JW’s have shown courage in Nazi Germany and Rwanda. But it should also be said that the JWs did not really express themselves in “peacetime” in “their own country, the homeland, which is called Spiritual Paradise” when victims of CSA call for help and only few try to help them .... and many others could not or would not hear their voice because of the great noise of those who shouted, "We are the best religion." 

@TrueTomHarley
... thanks for long post. Praiseworthy and worthy to imitate, try to follow an example, every example that respects and saves lives. 
It is unfortunate that, we humans, have lost our inner feelings for right and wrong, and that/how belonging to something (religion, politics, philosophy, etc.) becomes a method by which certain good values are achieved or which lead to the opposite side, to the side of evil.
Let us not forget that many who were willing to sacrifice themselves in this way for others, perhaps, in another circumstance, are willing to do something that nullifies their great sacrifice they have made. Imagine, I'm hiding a JW brother or a non-JW person from the massacre yesterday .... and today I completely ignore (shun) on the road someone who has stopped being a JW brother for some reason. Or even more frighteningly, consciously or unconsciously, JW’s brother supports wrong instructions regarding how to deal with cases of pedophilia. And how the victims of pedophilia “die” because no one has “hidden” them from the villains and from those who have allowed evil to continue to happen.
So Tom, it should be said that JW’s have shown courage in Nazi Germany and Rwanda. But it should also be said that the JWs did not really express themselves in “peacetime” in “their own country, the homeland, which is called Spiritual Paradise” when victims of CSA call for help and only few try to help them .... and many others could not or would not hear their voice because of the great noise of those who shouted, "We are the best religion." 

This is witty answer. I believe how more JW's try answer this way, because of need to give answer that is more acceptable for non-JW people. In fact, i think 70%-80% of JW's thinks how only JW will be saved.   
Oh Man, you need more faith :))
People prefer government that not gives promises only :))
Faith without works is dead .... as same as works with faith can be rejected. Bible speaking about it too. 

There is no question that you yourself are there, of course.

If we were to use that analogy, then your locust/scorpions that come out of the abyss as the anointed,(Rev 9:2,3) means that they not only shared it with Satan and his demons, but had no influence in the world while in it. 
It helps to understand the meaning of Sheol, Hades, the abyss, the “pit”; which are all indicating the realm of spiritual darkness – the realm of “not perceiving”. 
Satan has power over that darkness:
2 Cor 4:4 – “But even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing, 4 whose minds the god of this age has blinded, who do not believe, lest the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine on them.”
God has power over this darkness:
“But it shall come to pass, if you do not obey the voice of the Lord your God, to observe carefully all His commandments and His statutes which I command you today, that all these curses will come upon you and overtake you
29 And you shall grope at noonday, as a blind man gropes in darkness; you shall not prosper in your ways; you shall be only oppressed and plundered continually, and no one shall save you.”  Deut 28:15,29
“To the roots of the mountains I sank down; the earth beneath barred me in for ever. But you, Lord my God, brought my life up from the pit.” Jonah 2:6
As does Jesus Christ:
Isa 9:2 – “The people who walked in darkness
Have seen a great light;
Those who dwelt in the land of the shadow of death,
Upon them a light has shined.”
John 1:5 “And the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it.”
When Jesus was in the abyss, in that realm of “not perceiving” the light and wisdom of God; he preached to the demons “chained” in this darkness.  Did they hear Jesus?  Of course they did.  Why else would he have witnessed to them if they couldn’t?  (1 Pet 3:18,19)
If we are “alienated” from the light and wisdom of God through Christ, we also are in the abyss/Sheol/Hades.  We are under the power of darkness.
 “For Sheol cannot thank You, Death cannot praise You; Those who go down to the pit cannot hope for Your truth.”  Isa 38:18
“This I say, therefore, and testify in the Lord, that you should no longer walk as the rest of the Gentiles walk, in the futility of their mind,  having their understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God, because of the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart”  Eph 4:17,18
When Jesus bound Satan in the abyss, he restrained his ability to perceive or conceptualize how to deceive the anointed remnant in the last days. (Eccl 9:10)  He was spiritually blind to understanding how to attack the remaining ones of God’s people. 
Up until that time, the faithful anointed were not “captivated” or led into believing his greatest test. (Col 1:18; Rev 13:10; 2 Thess 2:9-10) They had no experience with the Beasts of Rev 13. (Rev 20:4) But Satan was still active throughout the earth, just as someone who walks outside of the light of life in Christ, is still physically alive, yet spiritually blinded to the wisdom of God.
“For this people’s heart has become calloused;
    they hardly hear with their ears,
    and they have closed their eyes.
Otherwise they might see with their eyes,
    hear with their ears,
    understand with their hearts
and turn, and I would heal them.”  Matt 13:15 
Who does Satan go after as soon as he is released from the abyss?  It is the “camp of the saint” of “New Jerusalem”, from all nations, including those who accompany them.  They are his target, and the plan he devised to deceive them, has led to the outbreak of the Great Tribulation. 
“For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be. 22 And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the elect’s sake those days will be shortened.  “Then if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ!’ or ‘There!’ do not believe it. 24 For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. 25 See, I have told you beforehand.”  Matt 24:21-24
"such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be. "
 
For at that time there will be a great tribulation (pressure, distress, oppression), such as has not occurred since the beginning of the world until now, nor ever will [again].
For at that time there will be great distress, the kind that hasn’t taken place from the beginning of the world until now and never will again.
For at that time there will be great tribulation, the kind that hasn’t taken place from the beginning of the world until now and never will again!
Do you understand this?  If Satan returns after Armageddon, this promise that there will be no more "pressure, distress, oppression",  is not true. 
 
 
 
 
 https://4womaninthewilderness.blogspot.com/2020/04/satan-in-abyss.html
 
 

I think you referenced my opinion here. It's as follows:
We know that Jesus' invisible presence began in the first century, around 33 CE, because, as Jesus said:
(Matthew 18:20) For where there are two or three gathered together in my name, there I am in their midst.”
(Matthew 28:20) . . .And look! I am with you all the days until the conclusion of the system of things.”
So, Jesus is invisibly present with Christians always from his resurrection UNTIL the conclusion (Gk, synteleia). If the conclusion began in 1914, then Jesus was saying he would be invisibly present with us UNTIL 1914.
But this is not the "parousia" which can also be translated "presence" or "visitation." The scriptures tie the "parousia" to the "glorious manifestation" of Jesus when he is revealed, and "every eye shall see him" and a time of sudden, bright flashing like lightning. (Scripture references available upon request. 😊) Thus, for several years, the following comment was included in the NWT appendix, which has since been removed from the 2013 Revised NWT:
*** Rbi8 p. 1577 5B Christ’s Presence (Parousia) ***
Also, Bauer, p. 630, states that pa·rou·siʹa “became the official term for a visit of a person of high rank, esp[ecially] of kings and emperors visiting a province.”
These visitations of royal personages were a spectacle, often with trumpeted fanfare and with the official accompanied by throngs of persons brought with him and joined by spectators alongside the parade. To make sure that the "parousia" went smoothly, the local authorities could even raise a special tax on the local citizens to fix the roads to make straight paths for the king's chariots and horses and entourage on foot. That tax was minted on "parousia" coins, or later "adventus" coins, just as they were in Paul's day. (This can explain why the first Bible translations did not translate "parousia" as presence, while koine (NT) Greek was still a living language. They used a word that meant "advent" or "visitation" focusing, therefore, on the arrival/coming, not the presence that followed.)
It seems obvious that this "parousia" did not start in 1914.
On the issue of when Jesus sat down in his Kingdom, this also seems pretty obvious from the scriptures. Jesus is called "king of kings" in the first century.
(1 Timothy 6:13-15) ...I give you orders 14 to observe the commandment in a spotless and irreprehensible way until the manifestation of our Lord Jesus Christ, 15 which the happy and only Potentate will show in its own appointed times. He is the King of those who rule as kings and Lord of those who rule as lords,
(Revelation 1:5, 6) . . .and from Jesus Christ, “the Faithful Witness,” “the firstborn from the dead,” and “the Ruler of the kings of the earth.” To him who loves us and who set us free from our sins by means of his own blood— 6 and he made us to be a kingdom, priests to his God and Father. . .
Immediately after his resurrection, Jesus said that "ALL authority" had bee given to him in heaven and on earth.
(Matthew 28:18) . . .“All authority has been given me in heaven and on the earth.
Trying to minimize this kingdom authority in the first century appears to take away from the scriptures. In the scriptures, Jesus is already "crowned" in the first century.
(Hebrews 2:9) 9 But we do see Jesus, who was made a little lower than angels, now crowned with glory and honor for having suffered death,. . .
(Hebrews 1:3) . . .he sustains all things by the word of his power. And after he had made a purification for our sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high.
He already has a scepter:
(Hebrews 1:8) 8 But about the Son, he says: “God is your throne forever and ever, and the scepter of your Kingdom is the scepter of uprightness.
And "sitting at God's right hand" means the same as "rule as king" as said above:
(1 Corinthians 15:25) . . .For he must rule as king until God has put all enemies under his feet.
So with this in mind, I think that 1 Cor 15:23 makes sense:
(1 Corinthians 15:20-26) . . .But now Christ has been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep in death. 21 For since death came through a man, resurrection of the dead also comes through a man. 22 For just as in Adam all are dying, so also in the Christ all will be made alive. 23 But each one in his own proper order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who belong to the Christ during his presence. 24 Next, the end, when he hands over the Kingdom to his God and Father, when he has brought to nothing all government and all authority and power. 25 For he must rule as king until God has put all enemies under his feet. 26 And the last enemy, death, is to be brought to nothing.
In other words, Jesus has now been raised from the dead, and he is the first of those to be raised alive "in the Christ." The word "during" is only used here because the NWT translators believe we should focus on a long time period. Most often the word just means "at."
So, first Jesus, then those who belong to him "at his visitation," at his parousia, at his manifestation, at his coming, at his arrival, at his presence, at that day.
(2 Thessalonians 2:8, 9) 8 Then, indeed, the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will do away with by the spirit of his mouth and bring to nothing by the manifestation of his presence [parousia].
Also.
(2 Timothy 4:1) I solemnly charge you before God and Christ Jesus, who is to judge the living and the dead, and by his manifestation and his Kingdom:
Paul does not ever speak about 1,000 years, specifically, but he makes it appear that there is a resurrection of those "in the Christ" and then the end, when he brings to nothing all government and authority and power. Paul appears to refer to only one single end that includes bringing to nothing all these other governments, and that this results in the end of death. Mission accomplished.
From Paul alone, then, we can't tell where a 1,000 year reign fits in. Paul speaks from the perspective of this particular kingdom of Christ accomplishing its purpose, and in some sense being handed back to God at the point where the final enemy (death) is fully subjected. 

I think we can probably figure out a rough timeline that Revelation 20 appears to show, and then, compare it to 1 Cor 15. If it doesn't make sense, we can see if our current understanding helps us to make more sense of it. I'm still thinking about it, mostly about whether I should even share what I'm thinking. I had some thoughts that were eerily similar to what TTH shared in the post where he said:
And, as before, my comments on the example of Abraham were a bit different from TTH:
I would have pointed out that if we were really doing what Abraham did when he said then, that we should be questioning this judgment, just as Abraham did. Perhaps that is one of the lessons. If we truly want to be God's friend then we should be ready to "argue" with Him. We should question the numbers, as Abraham did. We should question the sense of justice, as Abraham did. Ultimately, we would never question Jehovah's judgment after the fact, but we should always be thinking and questioning what justice should look like before the fact. It is important that we try to understand Jehovah's justice as best we can.
To that end, I brought up whether we should question the WT's view of Armageddon as it was spelled out from the time when I was still very young. We seem to have backed off on using such numbers, but I know that many JWs still believe these numbers are about right. The following article is on the jw.org website: https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1958762
*** w58 10/15 pp. 614-615 What Will Armageddon Mean for You? ***
Armageddon will be greater than any nuclear war fought on a global or even on a “space” scale. The Bible shows that Armageddon will be a war between gods and universal in scope. In it “Jehovah God, the Almighty,” and the “Mighty God,” his Son, Jesus Christ, will do battle with “the god of this system of things,” Satan the Devil. Involved in that battle will be all intelligent creatures, seen and unseen.—Rev. 11:17; Isa. 9:6, AS; 2 Cor. 4:4.
Revelation 9:16 gives us an inkling of the size of Jehovah’s forces when it speaks of him as using, on a certain occasion, cavalry to the number of 200,000,000. And 2 Kings 19:35 tells of just one of these destroying a host of 185,000 warriors in one night. How many demon cohorts Satan has, the Word of God does not indicate, but from the description of the war in heaven at Revelation 12 their number can by no means be insignificant. That Satan’s demons are likewise powerful can be seen from the fact that one of them once hindered an angel of Jehovah for twenty-one days, until the archangel Michael came to his rescue.—Dan. 10:13, 21.
As for humans upon earth, on the side of Jehovah will be all those fully dedicated to him and who are faithfully following Jesus Christ; compared with earth’s billions these are indeed few. They are the few that walk the narrow way or cramped road that leads to life. These will not share in the fighting but will merely sing God’s praises.—2 Chron. 20:20, 21; 2 Cor. 10:4, 5; Matt. 7:13, 14.
On Satan’s side will be all the rest of mankind, more than 99.9 percent, even as we read: “The whole world is lying in the power of the wicked one.” That includes all the governments of the world together with their supporters, the commercial, religious and social institutions. Even the professedly Christian organizations? Yes, because all such that are friends of the world are making themselves enemies of God.—1 John 5:19; Jas. 4:4.
Yes, today the earth is filled with wickedness, much innocent blood has been and is being shed, both in war and in peace. Godless men are persecuting Jehovah’s servants and ruining the earth. Jehovah will express “indignation against all the nations” and “against all the inhabitants of the earth,” because “there is nought but swearing and breaking faith, and killing, and stealing, and committing adultery.” At Armageddon Jehovah “will cause justice to be done” speedily to “his chosen ones who cry aloud to him” because of being persecuted. At that time he will also “bring to ruin those ruining the earth.”—Isa. 34:2; Jer. 25:30; Hos. 4:2, AS; Luke 18:8, 7; Rev. 11:18.
God’s Word likens Armageddon to the Flood, to the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah and to the battle at Gibeon, where God rained down great blocks of ice upon his enemies. Armageddon will be the worst thing ever to hit this earth in the history of man. It will be marked by shocking surprise, consternation, fright, collapse of government, tremendous upheavals of earth, landslides, cloudbursts, overflowing flash-floods, rain of corrosive liquid fire and terror in the air, on land and in the sea. No wonder that “the slain of Jehovah shall be at that day from one end of the earth even unto the other end of the earth: they shall not be lamented, neither gathered, nor buried; they shall be dung upon the face of the ground.”—Jer. 25:33, AS.
@César Chávez pointed out that there are about 8 million Witnesses. (When compared to a global population that is nearing 8 billion, this is also just another way of saying that 99.9 percent of the world are not Witnesses.) 
*** w58 6/1 p. 330 Why Dedicate Ourselves to God? ***
Yes, all such would foolishly ignore the instruction Book of their Maker and his “traffic laws” for living. And yet that is the very course that more than 99.9 percent of earth’s population
*** w55 11/1 p. 648 Using Wisely the Reduced Time Left ***
Time spent in trying to accumulate wealth, fame or power or in trying to perpetuate this old system of things is wasted, and that is what more than 99.9 per cent of this earth’s population are doing.
Of course, we don't know. CC has pointed out before that he thinks most Witnesses are not true Witnesses, with true faith. He has also made statements that question faith and loyalty of elders and ministerial servants. So perhaps the percentage of actual survivors is much lower than .1 percent from CC's perspective.

Excellent point!
According to WTJWorg theology, people would need to prove their faithfulness twice. As imperfect humans and than again as perfect humans ?? Does God need this "proof of fidelity and obeying" or Organization? 
In fact, according to quote you put from WT magazine, Organization aka New York Headquarter (who will be in New World as Main Administration of Jesus Kingdom, perhaps this new facilities was built to survive Armageddon :))))  need constant attestation from members now and in New System.  
Man maid religion, for sure.
religion = a personal set or institutionalized system of religious attitudes, beliefs, and practices - https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/religion
Definition: A form of worship. It includes a system of religious attitudes, beliefs, and practices; these may be personal, or they may be advocated by an organization. Usually religion involves belief in God or in a number of gods; or it treats humans, objects, desires, or forces as objects of worship. Much religion is based on human study of nature; there is also revealed religion. There is true religion and false. - https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1101989261
 

Please understand I am not singling you out with this comment, but any JW and exJW who may be reading this.
“The last days will culminate in “the day of judgment and of destruction of the ungodly people.” (2 Peter 3:3, 7) But people who love God will survive that destruction and be blessed with “everlasting life.”—Matthew 25:46.” wp19 No. 3 p. 10-11 
Not according to WT doctrine of a battle to ensue 1,000 years into the “paradise”.  No matter how much one loves God now, they will have another event of destruction to face.  What a lie. 
I don’t know how a JW can say that through obedience and baptism into the organization, salvation can be obtained, and “everlasting life” will be received, through that obedience to its direction…when it is the same organization that also tells you Satan will be “let loose” from the abyss one thousand years into the period of “everlasting life”.   If this WAS truth, NO JW should teach another person that they can receive everlasting life through the organization, because your prospects of surviving Satan’s DECEITFUL tactics are rather slim. (Rev 20:7-10; 1 Pet 5:8)  Do you truly believe you are guaranteed everlasting life by “sticking close” to the organization?
 
What is everlasting life? 
“The world and its desires pass away, but whoever does the will of God lives forever.”  1 John 2:17
“For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.”  John 3:16
Eternal life, forever in the Kingdom.
“And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Look! God’s dwelling place is now among the people, and he will dwell with them. They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God. 4 ‘He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death’ or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away.”  Rev 21:3,4
If there is a slaughter of your loved ones in the “paradise”, will you not mourn or cry or suffer pain over their loss?
Which do you believe? God’s promise in Revelation 21:3,4…or the confusing, fork-tongued teaching that yes, you will have everlasting life after Armageddon, but it is highly possibly you may lose that promise one thousand years into it?
Satan was “let loose” after a symbolic “thousand years” from the abyss, by a fallen star. (Rev 9:1)  Stars represent God’s holy people/ anointed ones; this star that fell to the earth is not Jesus Christ, (who would never “fall”), but a rebellious anointed one. (Dan 12:3; Rev 1:16; 8:10; 2 Pet 3:17;Jude 1:12,13; Rev 6:13; 12:4) Satan gave this fallen star a “key” to deception and death – a “key” to unlock his plan to destroy  God’s anointed ones during the last days. (Rev 12:13,15) It is the same fallen star that poisons the waters or teachings, causing death to all who spiritually “drink” it.  (Rev 8:10,11; 13:11,12, 17:1,2)
Satan was “let loose” from the abyss, to finally "perceive" how to employ a ruse against God’s saints, using those he has “won over”, with offers of power, riches, authority. (Luke 4:7)
Where are all the anointed “saints” gathered? (Rev 9:4; 13:1,2,7)  Who has authority over them? (Rev 13:11,12)
 
“Now when the thousand years have expired, Satan will be released from his prison 8 and will go out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle, whose number is as the sand of the sea. 9 They went up on the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city. And fire came down from God out of heaven and devoured them.”  Rev 20:7-9
 
 
 https://4womaninthewilderness.blogspot.com/2020/04/satan-in-abyss.html

“Is not My word like fire,” declares the Lord, “and like a hammer that breaks a rock in pieces?  Jer 23:29
"Therefore I cut you in pieces with My prophets,
    I killed you with the words of My mouth—
    then my judgments go forth like the sun."  Hos 6:5
When I think of this "torment" I think of leaders such as Hitler, who's legacy has been condemned through the the mouth of people since his wicked rule.  He is "condemned" "day and night" in a sense, for his atrocities committed even though he is dead.  God's Word condemns eternally, those who reject His Word in Christ. Since His Word, the spiritual sense of it, "is like fire", it is a symbolic condemnation.
This anointed one has an article addressing this very topic:
https://4womaninthewilderness.blogspot.com/2015/08/tormented-forever-in-lake-of-fire.html
 
 
 
 

When we look at Rev 20:7-10, it shows that Satan uses deceit to surround the "camp" of God's holy people/saints.  
In Rev 13 it also says that the two Beasts (Gog and Magog) use deceit through the power given them by Satan, to come against the saints. (Rev 13:5-7,14)
In Rev 16:13-16, it mentions Jesus' "kings of the earth" (Rev 1:5) being deceived by the two beasts and Satan.  They use blasphemy and deceit to take down those anointed in Christ.  
We're getting a painted picture using various colors, of what occurs once Satan is released from the "abyss".  
Sidepoint - if the locust of Rev 9:3 are God's anointed as the WT still insists, why would both Satan AND God's anointed come out of the "abyss" - the place of "not perceiving"?  (Rev 20:3)  One with apparent "good" intentions bearing a stinging message, and one with "evil" intentions to destroy through DECEIT?

I doubt my comment is welcome between the two of you, and I have not read the following comments since these, but JWI, if you believe Jesus began reigning in the first century, then why would his “kingdom of the son of his love” (Col 1:13) not be his kingdom of a thousand years? (Ps 110:1,2; 1 Cor 15:25)
  Once “death” has been destroyed, the Kingdom of God would usher in. (1 Cor 15:24,26) Jesus will have put all enemies under his feet over the last 2,000 years as the scriptures indicate.  That is the point of his symbolic thousand-year reign, which is a time of division and judgment.  
For a thousand years in Your sight
Are like yesterday when it is past,
And like a watch in the night.  Ps 90:4
Watch therefore, for you do not know when the master of the house is coming—in the evening, at midnight, at the crowing of the rooster, or in the morning— 36 lest, coming suddenly, he find you sleeping. 37 And what I say to you, I say to all: Watch!”  Mark 13:35,36
I see nothing in the scriptures that say Jesus will reign for a literal thousand years in peace, yet also call it a judgment period as the WT teaches.   How many judgments periods does there need to be? The Great Tribulation is already a test of magnified proportions that God's people must face.   I see nothing in the scriptures that says we must wait until we are physically and mentally perfect before we face another deception by Satan. This is doctrine of men.   We see plenty of examples of people in the scriptures who have already faced Satan and remained faithful to God.  Will Abraham be submitted to another deceptive test? Noah?  His family?  Moses?  The few faithful kings of Israel?  All faithful ones who left Babylon and remained faithful during their lifetime?  They all conquered “death” during their lifetime by receiving “living water” from God through His decrees.   Once they are resurrected, they will live, eternally, with no interruption by Satan, since the Destroyer who destroyed, would be gone.  (Isa 33:1; 1 Cor 15:26)
 “But about the resurrection of the dead—have you not read what God said to you, 32 ‘I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob’? He is not the God of the dead but of the living.” Matt 22:31,32
And if they are of the “living”, they would  hold onto this unfailing promise:
“By faith Abraham, when called to go to a place he would later receive as his inheritance, obeyed and went, even though he did not know where he was going. 9 By faith he made his home in the promised land like a stranger in a foreign country; he lived in tents, as did Isaac and Jacob, who were heirs with him of the same promise. 10 For he was looking forward to the city with foundations, whose architect and builder is God. 
All these people were still living by faith when they died. They did not receive the things promised; they only saw them and welcomed them from a distance, admitting that they were foreigners and strangers on earth. 
Instead, they were longing for a better country—a heavenly one. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God, for He has prepared a city for them.
 And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that He rewards those who earnestly seek Him." Heb, chapter 11
 
How can one retain their faith in the Kingdom of God, where righteous will dwell, and still believe unrighteousness and destruction will be allowed to deceitfully come upon one, who already survived testing by Satan during their lifetime on this side of Armageddon? 
Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. The one who believes in me will live, even though they die; 26 and whoever lives by believing in me will never die. Do you believe this?”  John 11:25,26
The "last enemy" death, is conquered by the individual before Armageddon, during their lifetime of believing in and obeying the teachings of Jesus Christ. 
The faithful anointed of Christ, have “passed over, from death to life” and will “never die”.  (1 Pet 1:23; John 1:13; James 1:18; 1 Pet 1:3; 1 John 3:9)  Throughout their lifetime, they must persist in that faithfulness and for the remnant, resist Satan’s deceptions. (Rom 12:6; James 2:17,24,26; Rev 13:7,10)
Those not anointed but are true believers in Christ are redeemed through the second resurrection.  All people who had obtained righteousness will “never die”. They will never have to face the possibility of death again, since death will be destroyed.
The promise of eternal life by Jesus Christ, is eternal to the one who believes and obeys HIS words and not man. 
We can be considered "dead" in the physical body if not believing and living by, the teachings of Jesus Christ.  
"Truly I tell you, anyone who hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not come under judgment but has passed from death to life"  John 5:24
 
Why would one desire to be in the Kingdom of God, yet also believe they may not live there eternally by a final test that would come through deceit? (Rev 20:7-10)  Only through demonic influence would a curve ball be thrown into a promise Jesus firmly held out to those who accept HIS doctrine of living eternally, which is the doctrine of God. (John 7:16)
 
 
 
 

I didn't put your whole comment here, but am considering all of it...or most of it, at least!
Well, we have no idea what happened “in heaven” before the record we have in Genesis.  We only  have have the account of creation and Prov 8:22-31.  Jesus Christ is the “tree of life” whose fruit has always imparted truth, beginning with Adam and Eve in the garden.  (Rev 2:7;22:2,14)  Satan, is the symbolic “tree of knowledge”.  At what point Satan rebelled against God, who knows, but we do know that God thoroughly warned Adam and Eve about him, about his teachings that would lead to death. (Gen 3:3)  I don’t believe God “tested” Adam and Eve, but gave them free will, to choose life and not death, as he did with Satan and the demons.  (James 1:13-17) 
Satan already had access to truth, to the living water of God. (Prov 14:27; John 4:10) I can’t see that he was tested with another source of "waters", but chose to abandon God, to fulfill his own lusts and selfish intentions, which will lead to his desctruction.  God created life which imparts freedom.  Satan used that freedom to fearlessly abandon the source of life, giving him the "key" to destruction and death.   (Prov 27:20;Rev 9:1,11)
Satan of the spirit realm or “heavens”, will be destroyed, so death will occur in “heaven”.  Arauna brought out a good scripture in Gen 3:15. 
With that is,
 Ps 74:14 – “you crushed the heads of Leviathan; you fed him to the creatures of the desert.”
Isa 27:1 – “On that day the LORD with his relentless, large, strong sword will bring judgment on Leviathan, the fleeing serpent -- Leviathan, the twisting serpent. He will slay the monster that is in the sea.” 
Isa 33:1 – “Woe, you destroyer never destroyed, you traitor never betrayed! When you have finished destroying, you will be destroyed. When you have finished betraying, they will betray you.”
 
Other than what we view when looking up at the sky and call it, the heavens, there is a spiritual heaven that I don’t believe is a place, but a spiritual existence or state.  An anointed one (“born again” 1 Pet 1:23) can be both “heavenly” and “earthly”.
 “Heavenly” as part of the New Covenant  (Gal 6:26; Heb 12:22; Eph 2:6; Luke 10:20),
…as the dwelling of God’s spirit (1 Cor 3:16; 1 Thess 4:8)
 …“earthly” as God’s owned land/home/field. (Jer 25:30; Acts 7:49; 1 Cor 3:9; Luke 8:15)
…as well as “heavenly and earthly” as a new creation – both human and spirit. (2 Cor 5:17)
They are spiritually under the authority of Christ – Matt 28:18
  So, when it says..
“By the same word, the present heavens and earth are stored up for fire, being kept for the day of judgment and destruction of the ungodly.   But based on his promise, we wait for new heavens and a new earth, where righteousness dwells.”  2 Pet 3:7,13
…the “new heavens” and “new earth”  will be cleansed of all unrighteousness; which mean only those who are found with a “righteous” heart (both anointed - heavenly/earthly” - and those not anointed living on the earth, will receive eternal life. 
The WT leaders can only see things literally.  They are blind to the deeper spiritual understanding of heaven.  They have to literally envision thrones where a literal 144,000 are seated without taking into account that Jesus said, “the kingdom of God is within you” – within the heart of fertile ground.  Luke 17:21
 
 
 
 
https://4womaninthewilderness.blogspot.com/2018/02/heavens-earth-sea-authority-of-christ.html
 

 

Not sure if you were being funny as this was a reply to animal mistreatment. That's one mistreatment I would happily support though after being bitten about 20 times on each ankle while standing in a field trying to spot Neowise the other night. That's all I got from that night, swollen itching ankles and no sighting because the northwestern sky developed a haze just after sundown.
Of course I am not really being serious as any kind of chemical interference on insects can have bad effects on other life. I suppose spraying myself would be less selfish. My fault, I left the bug spray at home...

This is correct. Those two concepts can be very different, although as @Anna has pointed out, in both cases one lives forever. And in both cases, Jehovah has the final say about the "rules" of immortality. The main point was that there is no scripture that says the "other sheep" will not also have that same immortality as the other sheep who will have heavenly bodies. There is one faith, one hope, one baptism.

I am signing a lot, many petitions on Lady Freethinker page. Humans are brutal. Disgustingly brutal!! 
https://ladyfreethinker.org/sign-justice-for-kitten-stolen-from-porch-and-drenched-in-poisonous-bug-spray/?utm_source=Newsletter&utm_medium=Email

Even in peacetime. My town did a heavy spray for mosquitoes a couple years ago, and estimated that hundreds of thousands of mosquitoes died. We probably won't find out for 15 years how it affected humans.

Out of detail did animals eat each other before Adam and Eve creation, or will they do it again in New World and after, it seems how this World living in two parallel reality. People got imperfection and living "imperfect life in imperfect World, after "sin". But animal continued to live as "perfect creatures" in own spiritual and literal "paradise" until now, but in dangerous from human.