Srecko Sostar

This is all so funny. A man writes a book which you all know will ruffle feathers in the CCJW and give some people outside the joy of reading it. It frightens you. For one reason you know that a lot of what he has written is true. So, what do you all do ? You look for ways to criticise him. 
But Tom has to go further of course, he looks for ways to criticise almost everyone. 
Maybe some of you should do an in depth observation of each member of the GB. You seem happy to find fault with everyone that has different views to you. But you JWs just love to worship your GB. 

Have you same Understanding for Dr. Furuli? and his doubts, lack of faith, searching for "better", "truer"  truth,  ....etc?

Well, this sort of process existing in animal world. People, and JW people too, need to know how working the world who is create by God they believe in.
Next thing you said, is influence, unknown mostly, that can cause need in some individuals to change the sex.
That would mean, because no one know why and how things is happening, that JW members need to have more insight and knowledge and intuition about issue and not drop all and every individual who have issue with sex identity into "devil influence" and/or individual "evilness".
I wouldn't know what you mean with this. Because, as i am aware, most of school politics and curriculum is not at all or mostly sourced, created in particular school but come from governmental directives, Ministry of Education, institutions that materially contribute or completely financing educational system as in private schools. I think how corruption is not problem that coming from schools (only) but is in society that is changing.
Have in mind, how process of changing ( no matter in what direction, in what sort of matters) is also in your church in your JWsociety. And time in future will give better perspective and conclusions only to future generations.  
That what you noticed about education can be matter of nostalgia too, not only independent and objective analyze.
Bubbles are general, not only individual problem or identifying space-time position. It can be said how you looks on Dr Furulli's or @JW Insider Bubble from your own Bubble too. :))

@Ann O'Maly My memory is very short, sometimes, but i recall how i put in focus facts how some life forms on this planet changing sex in their life time. And that is happening as normal part of their characteristic and gens. When people talking about who created life on Earth, according to Bible answer is God. Well, God created some animals in such format to be able to change sex. 
Changing of sex inside human species is complicated issue. And question is, why would some person wish to do that when many other don't wish that.
Space Merchant have issue with science who discovered how some animal species have changing sex ability. Or, he have issue with God who created such ability for some life forms?  
And now we can expect how Mr Space will copy paste and link all my past conversation with Him. God, please save us from "enormous text attack".  :))

Ok, one side of logic triggered next question: Why WT doing the same, writing and publishing books (Bibles and tracts, magazines, brochures) ?
Because they also know how Jesus is aware of everything that is going on Earth, not only in this or that organization.

"1975 will mark the end of 6,000 years of human history"
That's a pretty straight forward statement indeed.

Well, this sort of process existing in animal world. People, and JW people too, need to know how working the world who is create by God they believe in.
Next thing you said, is influence, unknown mostly, that can cause need in some individuals to change the sex.
That would mean, because no one know why and how things is happening, that JW members need to have more insight and knowledge and intuition about issue and not drop all and every individual who have issue with sex identity into "devil influence" and/or individual "evilness".
I wouldn't know what you mean with this. Because, as i am aware, most of school politics and curriculum is not at all or mostly sourced, created in particular school but come from governmental directives, Ministry of Education, institutions that materially contribute or completely financing educational system as in private schools. I think how corruption is not problem that coming from schools (only) but is in society that is changing.
Have in mind, how process of changing ( no matter in what direction, in what sort of matters) is also in your church in your JWsociety. And time in future will give better perspective and conclusions only to future generations.  
That what you noticed about education can be matter of nostalgia too, not only independent and objective analyze.
Bubbles are general, not only individual problem or identifying space-time position. It can be said how you looks on Dr Furulli's or @JW Insider Bubble from your own Bubble too. :))

Not your fault. I knew what you were saying about it. I was just saying that when I watched it, I wasn't thinking of the GB at all. But I was thinking about who the FDS could have been in such historical situations, and how they would have shown themselves standing up for a relatively "true" Christianity. That's based on an old habit of reading European history about the years from 100 to 1800 and always wondering who Jehovah might have deemed "FDS" at the time, because, until the "Proclaimers" book, this was the basic idea. There was never a time when the FDS did not exist, was the idea.
Actually, it has been said in those exact words. But that message has become much more subtle in the last few decades.
It was a very interesting read. I learned a lot more about Furuli the "man" and what his conscience struggles with. It's hard for me to remove his ego and even his haughtiness from the picture. But I have also really grown to love certain Circuit (and District) overseers in the past who were obviously haughty because after you have dinner with them, for example, you realize they are humans like the rest of us with questions and concerns and even frailties. When I knew several members of the GB personally, seeing and hearing them daily for several years, I thought some to be haughty, like F.Franz, D.Sydlik, A.Schroeder, L.Greenlees and T.Jaracz, and I knew others to be just the opposite in personality, like J.Booth, J.Barr, R.Franz, and perhaps all the others. Other observers might have categorized them differently. But it also doesn't mean that the humble ones were always right in their views, nor does it mean that the haughty ones were always wrong in their views.
I don't see it as much of a problem when a person is reminded of a situation like one in ancient Israel where a King Saul, or even a King David, needed counsel from a loyal subject. Of course, David once killed a subject who showed too much loyalty to him and not to the anointed Saul. Some will set themselves up as God's messengers with a message about a flight to Australia for example, and some will bring a gift to the table in the form of 40 to 50 years of scholarship and experience at many levels in the organization who might sincerely wish to correct a straying "king" or "governorship." I know which person's "counsel" I would want to read first. Assuming it was done in the spirit of:
(1 Timothy 5:1) . . .Do not severely criticize an older man. On the contrary, appeal to him as a father, to younger men as brothers,
(1 Timothy 5:19-21,24-25) 19 Do not accept an accusation against an older man except on the evidence of two or three witnesses. 20 Reprove before all onlookers those who practice sin, as a warning to the rest. 21 I solemnly charge you before God and Christ Jesus and the chosen angels to observe these instructions without any prejudice or partiality. . .  24 The sins of some men are publicly known, leading directly to judgment, but those of other men become evident later. 25 In the same way also, the fine works are publicly known and those that are otherwise cannot be kept hidden.
(1 Peter 3:15, 16) 15 But sanctify the Christ as Lord in your hearts, always ready to make a defense before everyone who demands of you a reason for the hope you have, but doing so with a mild temper and deep respect. 16 Maintain a good conscience, so that in whatever way you are spoken against, those who speak against you may be put to shame because of your good conduct as followers of Christ.
When I read Furuli, I was interested in what he left out in addition to what he included. I wondered if he would use certain scriptures, or appear to avoid certain scriptures. What would he say about the generation, 1919, blood, Hebrews 13, Revelation 2&3, 1 Cor 15:25? Could I pick up on any influence from Greg Stafford, Ray Franz, Fred Franz, George Chryssides, Jason BeDuhn, Gerard Gertoux, etc.? Some of the questions that I put in the margins would require a second read, and I'm not sure I'm up to it right now.
Somehow I took only 2 days to read his book and I immediately found myself behind schedule by more than 4 days for more practical things I wanted to get done. How did that happen? I might just take a breather for a few days myself. See you all on June 1st.

Thanks for respond.
I just saw few documentaries on TV about animals who changing sex as natural process. Also on internet few articles about that after watched TV.......... If they lied, i lied too.  :))

Why MUST some people have a platform to prove themselves!  It comes from ego and ambition!   Some are never thankful and count their blessings! The glass is half empty if they cannot have a "spiritual " say......
The core teachings are there! So what can you add?
Lets look at this statement from @Arauna 
Why MUST some people have a platform to prove themselves! 
I don't know, Why does the GB need to  have a platform to prove themselves
It comes from ego and ambition! Yes JWI has already said this about the GB  
The glass is half empty if they cannot have a "spiritual " say...... The GB are the only ones ALLOWED to have their spiritual say, and quite often it is wrong. 
The core teachings are there! So what can you add? 
The CORE TEACHINGS have always been there in God's written word. @Space Merchant has the core teachings and he is not a JW.  The GB did not invent those core teachings. 
So why can't the GB just stick with those core teachings ? After all, you say what can they add.
BUT the GB constantly add things. And the organisation has constantly changed it's teachings, so they obviously didn't get a lot of 'core teachings' right and probably still don't. 
Would it actually be tooooooo difficult to have KH meetings just to give thanks and praise to God through Christ. Why does the GB & Writing dept, have to dream up rubbish to 'tickle people's ears' ?  
Isn't the Kingdom message the same now as when the Apostles / disciples went out and preached ? 
Isn't God's written word enough to use ? The Apostles didn't have all the Greek scriptures. 
But you and @TrueTomHarley have proved that you don't teach from the Bible, you teach from the GB talk outlines and from the Watchtower...  'Sticking to the outline', Tom said. Proving that your 'faith' is not in God through Christ but in your GB. 
 

Well—I mean, big deal. It’s true with anyone. Anyone can go anywhere at any time. It is not that profound of a statement that he makes.
He encourages me to keep venturing “out of the organizational box.” Why? Because he either thinks that by doing so “my eyes will be opened” or someone will lower the boom on me, because “we must walk in lockstep.”
These guys are nuts! They are squirrelly. Because the irresistible bug of being free from all restrictions! bit them, they are convinced it will bite anyone—and they hope with all their hearts that it does.
I know the meaning and value of relative freedoms. Anybody of common sense does. His wet dream may come true of me (or anyone else here) jumping ship, but at present it seems not too likely. I know where my home is, I know when to yield, and I know when to press forward. I have written of it before:
https://www.tomsheepandgoats.com/2020/01/a-bad-boy-turns-over-a-new-leaf.html

Ok, one side of logic triggered next question: Why WT doing the same, writing and publishing books (Bibles and tracts, magazines, brochures) ?
Because they also know how Jesus is aware of everything that is going on Earth, not only in this or that organization.

Thank you for putting it all in colour. It looks pretty.

I am wondering what he thinks he is going to achieve with his book. I think some of us have had similar ideas to him, but were we thinking of publishing a book about it? Who does he think his audience is going to be? As soon as any Witness gets an inkling of apostasy, no matter how highly thought of he is, or whether he was a circuit overseer or not,  they will likely not read it. The only people that will probably read it are apostates, those hovering on the edge, or scholars like you and me on here 😂. So a very limited audience. (Look at Tom, he writes good books, they are not controversial (only a little bit) but because of his limited audience he will never make a living with them). I mean does he think he will change anything? For that to happen, every Witness would have to write a letter, as somebody on here already suggested. That is the only way anyone at HQ will listen. Interestingly, a few weeks ago in service I was talking to new couple from our hall (it was before the pandemic). They are from up north, both having HQ connections. Anyway, the conversation turned to the recent restructuring and re-organizing and the selling of KH. Since they were close to all kinds of information I though I would ask them about all this merging and sell offs. I knew that "equalizing" was not the only  reason. They gave the usual reasons like some halls were not being used to full capacity, thereby money was being wasted etc. So I asked them how come halls were not at full capacity? The husband said that people move etc. however, the wife came out with something interesting, and I was surprised she even said it. She said that there are quite a lot who have left. I asked her to clarify and she said; left the truth. I told her that I was sure part of the reason was that people are finding out things they would have never learned before the days of the Internet. They both agreed and we left it there. I don't think any of us wanted to carry on the conversation....

This is funny. Let tell us please, when and how will WT stop to promote "overlapping generation" scheme (very connected to "the end of World" ideology as was the 1975 too), and start to point to some individuals in organization who were over zeal in their attempts, how to explain and prolong life to "Generation of 1914" failed doctrine ?  

It is interesting how "extra" freedom, you looking for by implementing something out of Organizational box, make you feel happy. 
I encourage You to continue with that. :))

We do not debate about former and/or actual members. We speaking about what  periods in WT bring members specific understanding on particular subject. And how wrong they all are. Periodical "adjustments and clarification" of doctrines is not triggered by former members but by actual leadership about those, particular periods in organization's history aka teachings.  
It does not of any matter how this conversation resonate in me, but how that same things resonate with actual members. Because many of you who are actual members have very good chance to become former members, PIMO, POMI and other versions. 

In those years they, JW's, understand what was normal to understand according to "accurate knowledge" of those time. "One day" is 7000 years. Human existence of 6000 years will end in 1975. After that period of 6000 years, 1000 years kingdom will rule and 7th Day will be closed with renewed Paradise on Earth. Clear and simple reasoning for organization in those period of time. And now you said that is wrong. :)))
 Yes, organization know that same thing NOW, too. But then, in 1960'es "the truth" was different, not so advanced as today. Light lamp was under the table.:)))

I think Cesar just skiped magazines from previous period, from, let say 1968 onward :)). 

This is funny. Let tell us please, when and how will WT stop to promote "overlapping generation" scheme (very connected to "the end of World" ideology as was the 1975 too), and start to point to some individuals in organization who were over zeal in their attempts, how to explain and prolong life to "Generation of 1914" failed doctrine ?  

I think Cesar just skiped magazines from previous period, from, let say 1968 onward :)). 

This is funny. Let tell us please, when and how will WT stop to promote "overlapping generation" scheme (very connected to "the end of World" ideology as was the 1975 too), and start to point to some individuals in organization who were over zeal in their attempts, how to explain and prolong life to "Generation of 1914" failed doctrine ?  

I presume you have every paper copy of every magazine from 1966 through 1975, to prove your point. 
Other wise you have no proof. That one article proves nothing. The CCJW back track all the time. 

I brought it up because it's one of several places where Furuli's book provides the exact type of anecdote I am familiar with. These types of interactions were evidently memorable and important to Furuli, too.
But you might recall that among Witnesses it started with a basis in the Watch Tower publications. We have all the evidence that the initial speculation and the promotion of that speculation came directly from the publications and later from talking points from Circuit and District Servants (Overseers). Of course, the Watchtower had used the date 1975 to promote speculation about what might likely happen in the mid-1970's, not 1975 specifically.
Individuals, especially Circuit and District Overseers, and evidently FWFranz himself, speculated that this meant 1975 itself was just about the last possible year for Armageddon. Franz' early articles made it clear that, at most, it could only be a matter of weeks or months, but NOT years after October 1975. In other words, F.W.Franz promoted speculation that this system could not go beyond October 1977 because then it really would be "YEARS" after 1975. Mostly circuit and district overseers, those who held themselves out to be very careful readers of what the Society was actually saying here, were pointing out to audiences that if you read very closely, and with discernment, you will see that this is what the Society wants us to realize: That it's VERY unlikely that this system would go even as far as past 1975, or even if it did, it would only be a matter of months past 1975, not years. Therefore, we were supposed to speculate that Armageddon would come in the mid-1970s, not 1975 specifically. But the term "1975" became the shorthand for "mid-1970s" and this speculation about the mid-70s naturally became focused on the specific year 1975. So much so that when 1975 ended, almost all the talk of the mid-1970s ended then, too.
That initial speculation that was promoted at the summer conventions in 1966 was followed up with speakers assigned to promote more speculation at the Circuit Assemblies in 1967. Then the "months, not years" Watchtower came out in 1968, and it was the same Watchtower that indicated it was wrong to use Matthew 24:36 to balance the enthusiasm about 1975/mid-70s. In 1969, it was predicted that young ones should not plan to go to college, and especially not anything like a 4-year college degree because they would not likely finish that degree in this old system. And, of course, it was also predicted that no young ones would every grow old in this system. They definitely would not be able to start a career in this system. By 1973, the publications were praising those who were selling their houses to spend the remaining months in full-time service.
There might have been a few cautionary statements at the beginning, but they died out quickly, and we were told not to "toy" with scriptures that made cautionary statements in 1968. . It was not until 1974 that some of those more cautionary statements came out. My father gave at least one of these Circuit Assembly talks every year from 1967 to about 1972. He used Matthew 24:36 as a cautionary statement, even though he was not supposed to do that, according to the 1968 "months, not years" Watchtower.
By 1974 it was obvious that things were not really going as planned. (Inside Bethel, FWFranz was beginning to talk about 1974 as the likely year, even more likely than 1975) so when 1974 wasn't seeing things happening quickly even FWFranz himself began giving cautionary talks.
An experiment that might tell you something of the timing of these cautionary talks is reflected, I think, in the number of times Matthew 24:42, 24:36 and Mark 13:32 was quoted in the Watchtower:
“Keep on the watch, therefore, because you do not know on what day your Lord is coming."
1964 ONCE 1965 through 1974: ZERO TIMES!!! 1975: TWICE 1976: ONCE 1977: ZERO 1978: ONCE 1979 - 1993 ZERO And how about the same for Matthew 24:36:
(Matthew 24:36) (Mark 13:32) . . .“Concerning that day and hour nobody knows, . . .
1965: TWICE 1966: ZERO 1967: ONCE 1968: TWICE (but including the article against using it!)  1969 through 1973: ZERO TIMES!!! 1974: ONCE 1975: FOUR TIMES!! 1976: ZERO 1977: ZERO 1978: ZERO Such important scriptures nearly skipped from 1966 to 1974!!! Only brought up again in 1974 and 1975.

Thank you @JW Insider   This gets better every minute. 
A complete lack of spirituality shown in both instances. 
But @Space Merchant might question the use of the large visual aid with the number of months left to 1975. He seems to think that JW Org didn't 'predict' it as Armageddon.
  39 minutes ago, Matthew9969 said: I think if you guys want to see changes, it would take several million signatures from all countries you are located in, or a massive letter writing campaign like you  did with Russia.
I think it would take all congregants to leave the CCJW completely and certainly to stop all contributions. 
But I think all congregants (once lock down has ended) should stop attending Kingdom Hall meetings. They would do better for themselves to pray directly to God through Christ to ask for the CCJW to be completely cleansed and for a true Anointed to be set in place to act as Servants to the Org, not dictators of it. 
Perhaps God is waiting for such things to happen. Perhaps God wants to see the seriousness and wholehearted dedication from HIS people. I would imagine what God can see right now is the congregants 'turning a blind eye' to many sins within the CCJW and just using it as a social club.