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Srecko Sostar

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  1. Haha
    Srecko Sostar reacted to James Thomas Rook Jr. in All Eight Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses members are now individually named on two New York Child Victims Act case documents   
    I had to look that one up ... I had never heard the term before .... but my fascination with Dilbert Cartoons indicates that I am familiar with the phenomenon.
    Why Do Stupid People Not Realize They Are Stupid_.mp4
  2. Like
    Srecko Sostar reacted to Patiently waiting for Truth in All Eight Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses members are now individually named on two New York Child Victims Act case documents   
    @TrueTomHarley    That is the longest bit of self righteous advertising i have ever read on here. In fact it was so boring that i skipped lots.  And once again a SMOKE SCREEN  to get away for the REAL topic. 
    So no one in the JW Org is appointed by Holy Spirit. No one in the JW Org is Inspired of Holy Spirit.
    Wow, that seems to say that the JW Org, and it's GB, have no Holy Spirit between all of them.  And the proof is coming out in the court rooms every day  
  3. Thanks
    Srecko Sostar reacted to Witness in All Eight Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses members are now individually named on two New York Child Victims Act case documents   
    Highlights and caps are mine. 
    Arauna, I thought you might be interested in this latest news article.  While your statement above appears to show leniency to the perpetrator, please see how this woman as a young girl, was judged by the elders.  
    Man who raped Jehovah's Witness girls sentenced to 5 years in prison
    "It’s finally over. This chapter is finally closed," Moriah Hughes, who was 14 when then-25-year-old Elihu Rodriguez sexually abused her, said.
     
    Nov. 20, 2019, 9:49 AM PST By Elizabeth Chuck A man who pleaded guilty to raping two underage girls he met through the Jehovah's Witness congregation they all belonged to has been sentenced to five years in prison — a "relief" to his victims.
    Elihu Rodriguez, 32, of Yakima, Washington, was given five years, the maximum sentence prosecutors had asked for, after Rodriguez pleaded guilty to three felony counts of child rape in the third degree in September. He was also ordered to register as a sex offender. Both of his victims attended the sentencing, which took place Friday at the King County Maleng Regional Justice Center in Kent, Washington.
    NBC News does not typically identify survivors of sexual abuse, but one of Rodriguez's victims, Moriah Hughes, chose to share her story last year. She said she had been five days away from turning 15 when Rodriguez, then 25, first raped her in October 2012 at her home in Federal Way, Washington.
    Hughes told NBC News after Rodriguez was sentenced that she "felt fantastic" knowing he was going to be behind bars.
    "It’s finally over. This chapter is finally closed," she said. "I can continue my life knowing that the trauma was worth it. I didn’t go through this for nothing. I was justified."
     
    At Rodriguez's sentencing, Hughes described to the court how her life was "completely derailed" by the abuse. Through tears, she said religious leaders put the blame on her, and said, “my life was hell.”
    "I couldn’t sleep, I couldn’t eat and when I did I was so on edge, the smallest upset would cause me to purge whatever I had consumed into the nearest toilet," Hughes, 22, said in a victim impact statement, adding that she was later diagnosed with post-traumatic stress disorder and that something as benign-seeming as cologne that smelled like Rodriguez's would cause her to have a debilitating panic attack.
    At one point, Hughes said at the sentencing, she was so crippled by depression, she contemplated ending her life. She told the court that she wrote a suicide note last year to her friends and family "apologizing for not being stronger, begging someone to 'please, love my cat, Goose.'"
     
    Hughes said she felt ashamed and confused by what was happening, and at first did not tell anyone.
    But when she moved to Fairfield, Washington, about a year later, she worked up the courage to report it to three elders at her congregation there. In both her interview with NBC News and in the victim impact statement that she read in court, Hughes said that there were times when she doubted Rodriguez would be ever be disciplined.
    The elders she reported the rape to "basically told me that it was my fault. They told me that I wasn't sorry enough to God … They had used the Bible to victim-shame me for what I had done, and they never did anything to him," Hughes told NBC News in October 2018, weeks after a jury in a separate case awarded $35 million to a Montana woman who claimed Jehovah's Witnesses covered up the abuse she suffered at the hands of a congregation member as a child. (Two months ago, an attorney for the Jehovah’s Witnesses asked the Montana Supreme Court to reverse the $35 million verdict; the court did not make an immediate ruling).
    Hughes filed charges through the King County Superior Court in Washington in July 2018. The three felony charges Rodriguez pleaded guilty to a couple months ago encompassed the abuse against Hughes, as well as against a 12- or 13-year-old Jehovah's Witness girl he allegedly had a relationship with around the same time.
    Press officers for the Jehovah’s Witnesses have not commented on Rodriguez’s arrest or conviction. Last year, when Hughes disclosed the allegations of abuse to NBC News, the Office of Public Information at the World Headquarters said in an email that "it would be inappropriate for us to comment on specific cases."
    Hughes has since left the religion and works in the Spokane, Washington, area as an administrative assistant at a private medical company. She originally spoke to NBC News under her married name, Smith, but has since got divorced and now uses her maiden name.
    Gregory L. Scott, Rodriguez's Yakima-based attorney, told NBC News that Rodriguez is "extremely remorseful."
    For Hughes, remorse is not enough. She is working with attorney Irwin Zalkin, whose San Diego law firm has been litigating against Jehovah's Witnesses across the country for nearly two decades, to file a civil suit against the Jehovah's Witnesses. Zalkin said he is likely to file the suit in the coming month.
    Do I feel that they have a practice of protecting predators? Absolutely. Not a question," Zalkin said. "They have no clue about grooming. They have no training or understanding of how sexual predators work."
    Zalkin has brought more than 30 lawsuits against the Jehovah's Witnesses related to claims of childhood sexual abuse, about a third of which have successfully ended in settlements, he said. Zalkin said the upcoming civil suit will likely name the congregation where Hughes' abuse occurred, the congregation where she reported it, as well as the Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses, among other entities.
    There was no response to calls from NBC News this week from the congregations.
    The public information desk for the U.S. branch of Jehovah's Witnesses told NBC News in an email that "child protection is a priority for Jehovah’s Witnesses," calling child sexual abuse "a gross sin and a wicked deed."
    "Governed by the law of the Christ, our congregations do not shield perpetrators of abuse from the consequences of their sins," it said.  
    "Elders endeavor to comply with secular laws about reporting allegations of abuse. Such laws do not conflict with God’s law. So when they learn of an allegation, elders immediately seek direction on how they can comply with laws about reporting it," the statement said.
    Hughes said she hopes by taking legal action against the Jehovah's Witnesses, she can prevent what happened to her from happening to anyone else.
    "That would be really awesome," she said. "It's a good thing coming from a bad thing."
    https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/man-who-raped-jehovah-s-witness-girls-sentenced-5-years-n1082136
     
  4. Like
    Srecko Sostar reacted to Patiently waiting for Truth in All Eight Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses members are now individually named on two New York Child Victims Act case documents   
    @TrueTomHarley  I'm sorry to have to say this to you, but it appears to me that you and @Arauna are very selfish and actually offer nothing of use to any of the topics. 
    Arauna very often talks about herself just as you talk about yourself. She will say 'I am not impressed' 'I do not fall for your bait.'
    She and you seem to be full of your own self importance. IMO you both waste space here. 
  5. Upvote
    Srecko Sostar got a reaction from Patiently waiting for Truth in All Eight Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses members are now individually named on two New York Child Victims Act case documents   
    Appointment for a ministry, according to the Bible method, was done in accordance with Divine revelation and stimulus.
    Of course, in the Bible we also have examples of appointments that were not God-generated. This means that some did their job, exercises ministry, in spite of their false appointment.
    What lessons we take from such reality? How looked like appointment of Moses? How looked like appointments of Saul and David? Who done such appointments? Samuel. Who appointed Samuel, when and how? All that was done, according to Bible, in mystical, supernatural way. As many other appointments till Jesus and apostles. And we can assume, according to Bible descriptions about such events, how "inspiration" had main role in that. Samuel "was inspired" to made appointments. John the Baptist "was inspired" to do this and that. And so on. 
    Problem that WT Society Leaders have in this, is their open claim, even expressed as defense, protection of their personality and position, how they are Not Inspired. They claim how Jesus and God "chose them and appointed them", with spirit. But GB-FDS took very strong stand how they did not receive the spirit in such a way that they became inspired by that spirit and to be able to give some "measure" of such spirit to other people. If it is this way, than GB has no spirit in them to continue with proper appointments of other ministers, elders, (to appoint them by spirit) and they are not in capacity to pass this (received) spirit on them, inside congregation.
  6. Upvote
    Srecko Sostar got a reaction from Patiently waiting for Truth in All Eight Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses members are now individually named on two New York Child Victims Act case documents   
    "The Truth" can have more than one meaning. For JW's this expression is understand only as Religious Truth according to WT Society Teachings.
    Please go above of JW's definition. :))
    "The Truth" in context i using in our conversation includes Every Truth which is Truth In Itself, and which, if we are to include God in it, is acceptable to God and his principles. (Have in mind how God is above all Religions including WT Society)
  7. Sad
    Srecko Sostar reacted to Arauna in All Eight Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses members are now individually named on two New York Child Victims Act case documents   
    You used these words and made an incorrect assumption.  I do not fall for your bait.
  8. Like
    Srecko Sostar reacted to AlanF in All Eight Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses members are now individually named on two New York Child Victims Act case documents   
    Anna said:
        
    Anna, you're sidestepping my question. I asked you if you think that God would appoint a man such as Greenlees. Not whether fallible men would appoint him.
    Nothing about God appointing Greenlees here.
    Quite the opposite, in fact. You've argued that, even though the Society claims "appointment by holy spirit", that's not actually what happens. Rather, imperfect men make appointments, and then JWs pretend that holy spirit did it. But there are plenty of other examples that disprove this claim. And most JWs know it, even if they refuse to admit it to themselves or others.
    First, JWs only pretend that the Bible is such a template. When push comes to shove, most JWs will push the Bible aside when Watchtower tradition or practice gets in the way. Do you want examples from my personal dealings with them?
    Besides, reading a book and claiming that the book directs their actions is an exercise in self-deception. A claim of "direction" implies active direction on the part of the one said to be directing. Passive direction is a nonsensical idea. Someone might say that Chef Emil directed her to make a pot of stew in his cookbook, but that's only a manner of speaking, since Chef Emil actually did no directing. Someone who claimed active direction by Chef Emil would be viewed as a nutcase by her listeners.
    You have a knack for understatement.
    It appears that you know that Greenlees was a homosexual child molester for many years, including when he was appointed a Watchtower Society Director in 1964, which in turn implies that he was such for many years before that. Just when in the years between his youth and his appointment to the GB in 1971 had he "been made clean"?
    And what about God's viewing his heart? Was God ever fooled by an outward appearance of repentance?
    The bottom line is that God has never had anything to do with the appointment of GB members or any other JW elders -- no more so than with appointing the Pope or any other religious leader.
    But Greenlees never stopped.
    Not true. There are many instances where a molester known to some elders has been put back into some position of responsibility in some congregation. Barbara Anderson has a list of those known to her.
    Good! Note that whatever happens along those lines is far more affected by the way local elders -- not Watchtower officials in Warwick -- view child molesters.
    This is a Pollyanna view and only sometimes represents reality. Since this issue became publicly known in 2002 with the NBC Dateline and Panorama programs, plenty of cases of elders covering up child molestation have occurred. Some of those are the subject of the Zalkin lawsuits. In most coverup cases that I'm aware of, the elders took it upon themselves to cover up, or were directed to cover up by the Service Department. The overriding principle is "protect the JW organization's name at all costs." That's true even if the JWs involved personally abhor molestation, as attested by court cases and the far more numerous cases that never went to court.
    You're far too naive. There are things afoot that will publicly expose a lot more corruption on the part of Watchtower officials and some local elders.
    And of course, you've clearly admitted that the Society's claim that elders are appointed by holy spirit is a lie.
     
  9. Like
  10. Sad
    Srecko Sostar reacted to Arauna in All Eight Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses members are now individually named on two New York Child Victims Act case documents   
    I think you are too busy studying the sordid inner circle gossip details if the few cases of pedophilia amongst JWs,  that you have little knowledge of what is happening in the real world.
    All religion will soon be replaced by either worship of the state or one world religion which will take the form of a set of values which will include  LGBTQ ......P
    In your mind that will be wonderful because you hate all religion and cling to the dogma of Darwinism....... only ..... your disappointment will be great because you will be gnashing your teeth in anger at  the true God when he reveals himself.
     
  11. Upvote
    Srecko Sostar reacted to JJJ-AUSTRALIA in All Eight Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses members are now individually named on two New York Child Victims Act case documents   
    Lol seriously.... Love her clueless responses.
    Gossip, few cases of pedophilia.. 🤣🤣🤣 
  12. Upvote
    Srecko Sostar got a reaction from Patiently waiting for Truth in All Eight Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses members are now individually named on two New York Child Victims Act case documents   
    WT Society "rowing" (JW TV broadcast with G. Lösch)  about knowledge. So I do not see what  is "exact" about JW theology. Few doctrines that differentiate JW from Catholic church, for example, doesn't prove much. Because same or similar teachings are part of some other denominations or organization, too and vice versa.
    It could be how WT Society made own "choir" of members and "preaching" them plenty of "exact clarifications" about "knowledge".  
  13. Upvote
    Srecko Sostar got a reaction from Shiwiii in All Eight Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses members are now individually named on two New York Child Victims Act case documents   
    If i may join.
    We need some research about how many JW committed CM. But WT Society as Conglomerate who run Company, Corporation and Religion in the same time from one Central place in US are not willing to publish such information to no one - neither to Courts nor to Members. Some sort of exception is what was happen in Australia. But such database is only for Australia Branch Office. Even with such reduced insight, we saw how 1006 JW members and those who has been very closely related to JW congregations, committed  crime. Many of them was MS and elders. Is that percentage small or big, we can discuss. But because of nature of crime and because of nature of JW church who has the highest moral standards, as they claim for themselves, any number is too high and embarrassing.
     Very very short respond: If WT Society is run by Spirit, than Spirit would know how to handle this problem. 
    When we are in negative mode because talking often about bad things and problems, that can be a burden for both, ourselves and those who listen to us. Sometimes it is hard to "escape" this, because many of us had been very long in JW organization.
    If it is what you say, than JW members would know about all this when open JW TV. But there is no news, documents on JW Broadcast about what going on. 
    Also, WT Australia not joined National Redress Scheme. What can be reason for that? Perhaps, because WT don't want to admit any responsibility about CM. They have no intend to join. And such stand is unacceptable.  
    The Australian Government is encouraging all institutions responsible for child sexual abuse, including those listed below, to join the Scheme without delay. - https://www.nationalredress.gov.au/institutions/institutions-have-not-yet-joined
     
     If GB run all moves of secular and spiritual nature from one Central place, and request of all people inside church to obey every decision, than they are responsible. And that is why we have GB members listed as Defendants in newest Court case.     
  14. Like
    Srecko Sostar reacted to Matthew9969 in Suicide. God's view. Organisation's view   
    Yeah, a lot of men had great intentions of stopping Hitler and freeing your brothers and sisters from his concentration camps.
    Well is it?
  15. Upvote
    Srecko Sostar got a reaction from Matthew9969 in Suicide. God's view. Organisation's view   
    Think, how both questions have good position. Maybe we can be in better position about answer, if we take in consideration what would be chance to survive and continue to live (in this life of course :))) ) in each of this situations. 
    On other side, by refusing blood you not participate in defending other people who had been attacked by evil force.
    Reason or reasons for refusing blood, standing in theological explanation of how should be understood verse in Bible, and how are your personal feelings about God's will.
    By this action (refusing blood) you directly help or harm yourself, and indirectly harm own family. Those people who going to war because they want to help people, are ready to put  themselves  in danger situation for (theoretically) only one reason - to help known and unknown people on cost of own life.
  16. Like
    Srecko Sostar reacted to Patiently waiting for Truth in All Eight Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses members are now individually named on two New York Child Victims Act case documents   
    Do some of your guys spend your life on the web, going from blog to blog / forum to forum ?  How many JW / Ex JW 'sites' are  there ? I'd rather go for a long walk in the countryside and see what God has created, myself, but each to their own  
     
  17. Upvote
    Srecko Sostar got a reaction from Patiently waiting for Truth in All Eight Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses members are now individually named on two New York Child Victims Act case documents   
    9 What shall we conclude then? Do we have any advantage? Not at all! For we have already made the charge that Jews and Gentiles alike are all under the power of sin. 10 As it is written:
    “There is no one righteous, not even one;
    11     there is no one who understands;
        there is no one who seeks God. -- Rom 3
    20 Surely there is no righteous man on earth who does good and never sins. --- Eccl 7
    Do you know who is "righteous man"? Do you have unmistakable "nose" for that? :)) Or, Pinocchio effect is visible when "unrighteous individual lies to you"?
    By this cited verses i really don't know WHAT sort of people you see as "righteous" and whose words you see as trustful. Jews and Gentiles, Jehovah's Witnesses and non JW's ...all are unrighteous human.
    Even those who made efforts to be "righteous" (many times only in their own eyes) sins commonly, most often in words.
    :)))
     
  18. Like
    Srecko Sostar reacted to AlanF in All Eight Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses members are now individually named on two New York Child Victims Act case documents   
    Arauna said:
         
    Same one who appointed your Governing Body.
    Only to you. Not to me, because I have definite knowledge of the events I've described.
    On the other hand you have nothing to dispute any of it.
    Which is what the GB did to convict Leo Greenlees of being a pedophilic, homosexual child molester.
    Your worship of the GB is so strong that even if Jesus himself told you that they are not what they claim, you wouldn't believe him. You're one those I had in mind when I mentioned self-righteous JW apologists.  
    Wow! You actually learned something!
    Except that the Old Testament relates that many miraculous events proved that Elijah and others were really appointed by God to do his bidding. What does the GB offer? Their word. And how valuable is that? The history of Watchtower leaders from before it even existed proves that not a single prediction they made came true, and that their false teachings make a pretty big pile of trash.
    So are you claiming you don't worship the Governing Body? Don't let your fellows know, or you'll be disfellowshipped for apostasy.
  19. Thanks
    Srecko Sostar reacted to AlanF in All Eight Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses members are now individually named on two New York Child Victims Act case documents   
    César Chávez said:
    No, "apologist" means someone who defends a position or organization. You're thinking of "critic". Your English is not a problem as long as you don't get self-righteous about it. I can read a bit of Spanish but would not do well writing in it.
     
    The information about Jaracz comes from several ex-Bethelites who were in a position to know. You can read Franz's Crisis of Conscience for the information about Knorr's appointment of Jaracz.
         
    Supporting evidence that would not hold up in court is what I have. It wouldn't hold up in court for the simple reason that all the GB members involved are dead, and so far, the molested boy has not come forward. But there is much circumstantial evidence.
    According to several ex-Bethelites writing on various JW related forums since the mid-1990s, shortly after Greenlees was booted out of Bethel there were a lot of rumors ciculating. One morning at breakfast GB member Martin Poetzinger mounted the dais and announced something like, "The affair of Leo Greenlees is closed!"
    From Jan. 1, 1986 Watchtower, p. 13:
    << Shocking as it is, even some who have been prominent in Jehovah’s organization have succumbed to immoral practices, including homosexuality, wife swapping, and child molesting. >>
    That's an obvious reference to Greenlees, and probably Chitty.
    During the 1990s I participated in several ex-JW forums. About 1994 the Society published some information about molestation victims that triggered much discussion over the next few years. Several people related stories of being inappropriately touched by Greenlees when they were 10-15 years old. Others related their personal stories of molestation at the hands of various JWs.
    When I reconnected personally with Barbara Anderson in 1997, I mentioned the ongoing discussions about Greenlees. Her response was, "I'm glad you've been publicizing what that monster did!" Then she told me what Writing Staff member Ciro Aulicino had told her in 1991-1992.
    Aulicino was the Bethel gossip accumulator, and for whatever reason, various Bethelites including GB members would tell him things that would ordinarily be called gossip. He relayed these things on to others. Around 1991 Aulicino learned that the Bethel Personnel director and GB member Daniel Sydlik had rejected an application for Bethel service by a young man. Why? Because he was the boy that Greenlees had molested, and Sydlik was afraid that the boy might tell of his molestation by Greenlees 7-8 years earlier. Aulicino was very bothered by the fact that the boy was being mistreated yet again by a GB member.
    In 1998-1999 I participated in the now-defunct H2O ex-JW forum. There appeared a Bethel official who called himself 'Friend', and was assiduously anonymous. His main concern was to turn the Society around on the blood issue. I had many private email conversations with him, and in one I asked him how he could in good conscience remain a Watchtower official, considering that Greenlees was a GB-convicted child molester and all that implied. He became angry and asked, "Why are you bringing up that old stuff?"
    In 2000 I had several conversations in person with another Watchtower official. At one point I asked him the same question I had posed to 'Friend'. He proceeded to excuse what had happened as the result of human imperfection, so I asked him about the question of "appointment by holy spirit". He opened up about various details of the Greenlees affair that I had not known about. This official was very much in a position to have certain knowledge of GB actions.In 2002 my JW parents learned of my involvement with Silentlambs. They disinherited me and in effect, disfellowshipped me from their 'family', which they informed me of by letter. I called them and spoke to my elder stepdad, finally asking him how he could in good conscience be an elder when the Greenlees affair proved that JW elders certainly are not appointed by holy spirit. He had no knowledge of Greenlees, so I explained. He didn't know what to say. Now, my parents had often entertained GB members, including Albert Schroeder and Daniel Sydlik. So I called them a couple of weeks later, and again challenged my stepdad about the Greenlees affair. This time he was knowledgeable, and did not dispute anything I said about Greenlees, which told me that he had consulted his GB friends and confirmed it all.
         
    The information on Chitty came from several ex-Bethelites. I doubt they would want to come forward publicly at this time.
    I was raised a JW, but gradually quit after the 1975 fiasco.I have submitted many talking points to AD1914.
         
    You have only to look at the last 20 years' worth of accusations against the Society, and of course, the many court cases they've either lost outright, or settled out of court on.
  20. Thanks
    Srecko Sostar reacted to JW Insider in All Eight Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses members are now individually named on two New York Child Victims Act case documents   
    It's very probable that other people know certain features, and can help validate pieces of the story. But neither you nor I have any knowledge that this is already out there somewhere, so I already knew you were bluffing. (It reminds me of the style that "Allen Smith" often utilized to bluff and bluster.)
    I'm sure that you just don't realize that the portion of this story that puts it in perspective is fairly recent. I'm sure a lot of people knew that it was TJ behind the intimidation campaign, but he clearly didn't want his name involved, so that limited the number who could tell what was happening, even from within the Service Department. From the "field" people might have known and complained about Beagle or Pierce, but how could anyone in the "field" have ever known that this was part of a campaign that included targeted areas in the Midwest. I can also name the victim, and I searched on this victim's name, a dozen different ways and although I can find the name, it is not associated (yet) in any public way with these allegations or with these other persons.
    I think that there is a very good reason that no one has ever offered these same talking points. And there is a very good reason that you can't point to them either.
    Curious spelling of condone. Reminds me of how Cesar Chavez would have pronounced "Columbus" as "Colon," where the m and n move in the other direction. The Knorr idea has been suggested before. I have my strong doubts, but I have heard it pointed out that he always surrounded himself with tall, good-looking men: The Adams family (all three brothers), Max Larson, etc. There was another widely known homosexual Branch Servant at the time in Canada, Percy Chapman, who did such a good job managing the Branch that no one seemed to care. But I think it was Knorr who finally had him removed (not that this proves anything about Knorr, one way or another).
    I have never heard of Rutherford being accused of homosexuality. I didn't search, but it was never one of the accusations floating around inside Bethel. My own table head (the Bethel Elder at the head of every morning and lunch table) worked with Rutherford and claimed that he was a drunkard, a womanizer, and a contentious blowhard, but this is the first I have ever heard of a complaint of homosexuality.
     It can be proven that at least one husband divorced his wife over all the time that his wife was spending alone with Rutherford.
    True, but he seemed to have some details I had never known anyone else to mention, but they match things I heard about before exJW websites existed, and before the Web existed. And an attending witness could actually provide a lot of useful help here.
  21. Upvote
    Srecko Sostar reacted to Anna in All Eight Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses members are now individually named on two New York Child Victims Act case documents   
    I have found from my experience as a JW for more than 30 years, that although you might never get the EXACT details about something, you can be sure of one thing, and that is: if there is smoke, it's because there is, or was a fire.
  22. Thanks
    Srecko Sostar reacted to JW Insider in All Eight Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses members are now individually named on two New York Child Victims Act case documents   
    @AlanF Haven't seen you around these parts for a while. I see the name @scholar JW pop up in a "Who's Online" box now and it always reminds me of the fact that he seemed to love a 587 debate, wherever he could find one. I always appreciated your knowledge on that topic (although, you also scare me with your evolution/atheism arguments).
    But back to the point. I did not know that you knew this much about the Lloyd Barry and Ted Jaracz situation. I was going to start avoiding using so many names but, yes, of course you are talking about the same people.
    In case you are even more aware of some of these details I would like to run another situation by you, especially since it sounds like you might be aware of details that would clarify or adjust what I think I know. I had just decided earlier today NOT to share this part of the story because of how unbelievable and contrived it might sound. But I'm going to go ahead and put it out here, and I'll take a cue from you and use names this time:
    And by the way I don't know if you know C.A. (still alive) but he is the WTS source for most of this particular story, either directly or indirectly. He is currently living in a residence just off the Bethel campus, and is not doing that well health-wise. I prefer that his name is not spelled out here, because I'm sure he would have preferred that these issues were not widely publicized in a forum such as this. I embarrassed myself in front of him on my first day at Bethel over 40 years ago, by telling him about a problem with the pay phones in the Bethel lobby. He listened and then shrugged as if he could not have cared less about it. I don't know why it still embarrasses me so much, but it doesn't matter, we got along very well from that point until even long after I left Bethel. He himself got involved in some even more embarrassing situations at Bethel, which I think you know about.
    He was in the Service Department under Miller and Jaracz, and shortly after I left Bethel, he was "promoted" to the Writing Department.
    But this story is primarily from back in 91 to 92. After the 91 article, brothers and sisters thought it was good to start telling their stories of sexual abuse to the elders, to the Society, and to professional therapists. The situation was very unnerving for the Society and for local elders too, especially when the accused were those they knew and wanted to defend in some way. There was a big new controversy over repressed memories and whether all these accusations could actually be false. Elders in California, and a couple other states were actually starting classes in "repressed memories" and trying to learn what they could about psychiatry. Victims were coming out of the woodwork.
    So Brother Jaracz who tried to keep it "anonymous" from the rest of the Service Department, talked to several of the brothers who were known to be on the rise and who had requested or were being considered for Bethel positions in the Service Department. These were Brother Pierce, West, Lett and Beagle, possibly among others. Pierce and Beagle were sent to California to handle circuits that TJ had been in, and West and Lett were assigned to Wisconsin, at least, there might have been other areas and brothers involved too.
    To give you an idea of who these people were, Beagle, Pierce and Lett were called in to work as C.O.s and D.O.s around the NYC area. (West may have been too, but I don't know what happened to him.) This is a commonly known sign that they are being watched and in close communication with the Service Department, and Bethelites "in the know" start guessing at this point that they will soon be called in to Bethel for "top jobs"
    CA, in fact, predicted when Beagle would come in (he was immediately assigned to the Service Department) and CA guessed in advance that Pierce would go straight to the Governing Body. I think he may have had some inside information.
    The two most intimidating were Beagle (six foot six) and Pierce (short but a bulldog with a smile). The intimidation campaign actually produced letters complaining about both of these persons, which was another reason for moving them to NYC. Pierce (from the Salem OR area) had a range of complaints about his "weirdness." 
    An old accusation from 1991 actually ended up revealing clearly that it was TJ behind the anonymous campaign, as he sent a letter on his own letterhead (his codes) to a sister (a victim's mother) whose daughter was sexually abused by more than one elder since she was young. The mother died, and the daughter is in possession of letters between her mother and the WTS, including at least one from TJ. And based on the content of the letters, she recalled that it was West and Lett who met with her to warn her and her mother that they would be disfellowshipped if they exposed the story.
    This part of the story, if true, would provide further confirmation that Lett and West were involved in the same intimidation. I already knew something of Pierce and Beagle because of relatives in California.
    Brother Beagle, by the way, (young) died suddenly of a heart problem shortly after he began his assignment in the Service Dept. Brother Lett, of course, is now on the Governing Body and made himself famous to this victim (and exJWs, and probably other victims) by implying that apostate lies were behind the spread of rumors about the WTS covering up child sexual abuse.
    [edited to remove some of the state locations and too many specifics about the victim and victim's family. If you copied a previous version, please reload the page to get the edited version.]
     
  23. Like
    Srecko Sostar reacted to Patiently waiting for Truth in All Eight Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses members are now individually named on two New York Child Victims Act case documents   
    I don't know you and I don't know the who's who of GB members over the years, but I do have a tendency to believe you. 
    So i will now await others that have your knowledge, to weigh in with agreement or disagreement. 
    Let battle commence  
  24. Thanks
    Srecko Sostar reacted to AlanF in All Eight Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses members are now individually named on two New York Child Victims Act case documents   
    The self-righteous JW apologists on this forum are pitiful. They're more than willing to condemn individuals in "the world" for wicked conduct, but just as willing to excuse similar conduct among themselves, and especially by their leaders the Governing Body. Mostly they simply deny that these charlatans did anything wrong at all. Much like Donald Trump's Republican defenders are doing in the current House impeachment hearings.
    Let's watch as some JW apologists try to excuse their leaders for the conduct described below.
    JW Insider mentioned a circuit servant in Australia who was removed and reassigned in the early 1950s. This was Theodore Jaracz, who later became a GB member (according to Raymond Franz he was appointed by Nathan Knorr as a slap in the face to the other GB members who had ousted Knorr from power; he was known for being unreasonably harsh). Jaracz eventually worked his way into the de facto position of 'supreme GB member' by force of personality, essentially replacing Fred Franz and becoming head of the Service Department. As such, and because of his temperament, he was feared and hated by many lower-order Bethelites. There is very good evidence that Knorr had removed Jaracz as a circuit servant in Australia for some sort of sexual misconduct with a minor(s), which is a smoking gun for his attempts to hide all mention of child sexual abuse from the JW rank and file, both in print and in dealings that appointed officials such as Circuit and District Overseers had with elders and the rank and file. If Jaracz was a child molestor 40 years earlier, it was a good bet that he retained a tendency to excuse them in the 1990s.
    Jaracz was at odds with GB member Lloyd Barry, who by all accounts was a decent man.
    As for other GB members, by far the worst I know of was Leo Greenlees, who was removed from the GB in late 1984 for sexually molesting a 10-year-old boy. The parents reported the molestation to the Society, and eventually the GB met as a judicial committee to deal with the accusation. They found Greenlees guilty, but judged him repentant, and assigned him to be a special pioneer, which entitled him to the usual SP stipend. This was obviously self-serving, since to expose Greenlees' misconduct to the public would have been fatal to the JW organization. After all, a homosexual pedophile does not develop those proclivities at age 72, but has been practicing such things since he was a young man, and Jehovah God would not anoint a homosexual pedophile as an elder, much less as a GB member. Furthermore, the Ray Franz incident was fresh in the GB's minds, and Franz had recently published "Crisis of Concience", and likely the GB wanted to take no chances of a repeat with Leo Greenlees. So they avoided disfellowshipping him and sent him off with a stipend.
    This situation with Leo Greenlees is positive proof that "Jehovah God" has nothing to do with the organization of Jehovah's Witnesses.
    Another GB member wicked by JW standards was Ewart Chitty, who in the early 1980s was removed from the GB and reassigned to a lower level position in the UK Bethel. Chitty was, in modern parlance, very "flaming" (i.e., exhibited strongly stereotyped homosexual behavior). He seemed to prefer young men as roomates. Apparently there were accusations of inappropriate behavior by several young Bethelites, which caused his demise.
    Once again we see behavior by a GB member entirely inconsistent with the Society's doctrine that elders and GB members are "appointed by holy spirit".
    There is even evidence that Nathan Knorr was a closet homosexual. He did not marry until he was 48 years old, and his wife is reported to have told close friends that their marriage was never consummated. Knorr was obsessed with telling young men, especially new Bethelites, to avoid masturbation, which invokes clear shades of "methinks thou dost protest too much". And of course, his failure to remove Theodore Jaracz in the early 1950s as a Watchtower official but reassigning him to a lower position in the WTS organization strongly indicates that Knorr was soft on child sexual abuse.
    Many Watchtower officials have traditionally been soft on child molestation. In the mid-1940s my own mother, in her mid-teens, was hit on by at least one prominent WTS official much her senior.
     
  25. Like
    Srecko Sostar reacted to Witness in All Eight Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses members are now individually named on two New York Child Victims Act case documents   
    Only Christ can offer us eternal life, not an organization, a false Zion.  If I follow Christ and am condemned by the GB for doing so, who is it that carries the beam in their eye?  
    He said to the crowd: “When you see a cloud rising in the west, immediately you say, ‘It’s going to rain,’ and it does. 55 And when the south wind blows, you say, ‘It’s going to be hot,’ and it is. 56 Hypocrites! You know how to interpret the appearance of the earth and the sky. How is it that you don’t know how to interpret this present time?"  Luke 12:54-56
    JWs see and "interpret" the appearance of what is happening in the world, judging each individual within it as marked for destruction during their version of Armageddon; while not paying any attention to what is happening among God's "saints".  
    Mark 24:24 -  "For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. 25 See, I have told you ahead of time."
     
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