Space Merchant

20 hours ago, Moise Racette said:

Within God's true Org. There are many gifts afforded by God's Holy Spirit. This curiosity seems to equate that of @Space Merchant curiosity.

Only in regards to @Dmitar, but that is about it.

19 hours ago, Moise Racette said:

There is a saying about curiosity. I rarely use the NWT, since I have no willingness to abuse nor use God's name in vain. I find using God's name in arguments or debates, defiles God's sovereignty. A problem that even witnesses here have a problem with.

However, I agree the NWT is an excellent translation, even though there are witnesses here that believe the interlinear is not. They rather use outside sources, that have not kept up with new translation sources.

Ironically enough, some consider it the best translation. But KJV-Onlyist, will not take that lightly, evidence of this for years.

I've always used the ESV, however, when it comes to Strong's and specific concordances, I do well to make the research compared to those that are unwilling to do so.

At the end of the day, it is early source vs later source. Early source always wins.

15 hours ago, Witness said:

Just type in "hearts" in biblegateway.com  and see how many scriptures appear.   None will appear for the word, "organization". God's focus is on people; it is people who put their focus on an organization.

Now quite, and you are being simplistic. In example, "The Golden [Moral] Rule" isn't in the text, but, it is based off of Matthew 7:12 contextually (this is known by everyone). Likewise, with the term "organization", however, what you did not realize is the suggestions, which equates "to do things orderly" - 1 Corinthians 14:39,40.

[39] Therefore, my brothers and sisters, be eager to prophesy, and do not forbid speaking in tongues. [40] But everything should be done in a fitting and orderly way.

Bible Gateway also has another tab concerning topics, even in this regard, Bible Gateway topics are often vocal on context.

That being said, words and some terms that do not appear in the Bible, often times has a verse or a passage based on it, with reason. Biblegateway makes it very clear, as is other similar websites with online bibles available.

Sidenote: other source - https://biblehub.com/topical/o/organization.htm, https://biblehub.com/greek/strongs_2941.htm

An organization or being organized is noted as a body of people/persons with a particular purpose, especially a business, society, association, etc. Concerning Christians - Early Christians organized the church and collected the New Testament of the Bible. As different societies interact, they often bring about change in each other. They were organized as a local church apart from the local synagogue.

Christians operate in the church as a member of the body of the Christ. their purpose is to preach the gospel and of the Messianic Age, as is serve and worship The One True God, and they coordinate greatly in various tasks associated with the church. Although members of that body have roles, men, women and often times children operate accordingly, especially in a Biblical, principled and moral standpoint. So Christians, especially as a united and yoked grouped, are organized, as is, orderly. This predates pretty much all denominations, even JWs, for last I checked, the Didache that shed some light on church practices and operations existed before them, and everyone else.

Even outside of faith, anything that is a group collective where the number is large with the same purpose and goals in mind, it is organized, an organization.

@TrueTomHarley And to that perhaps we may never know.

But in all seriousness however, the King of the North and South, their actions will ultimately result in a lot of people being fooled by them in the process, we already seeing this with the events leading up to the proxy war in Ukraine. Allies on both sides under the UN banner, have shifted. In example, Saudi Arabia, was with the US for some time pre-Syria situation concerning Bashar al-Assad, then when the world sees what is happening in this proxy war, including them, they changed sides, mainly due to the gas and energy notions of this situation.

Western allies are draining their resources day by day as the common man suffers while at the same time telling the people it is fine, when it is not. Recently tension in the Middle East and a mass eruption in the United Kingdom, concerning the British, it was predictable.

For the religious, it'll be Moses and the Israelites in the wilderness type of deal, but on the hardest difficultly.

Speaking about the United Nations and Babylon, as the days and months gone by, not a whole lot of people pay attention to their movements in order to even put Proverbs 22:3 into application along with other events.

4 hours ago, Moise Racette said:

You must be thinking of French people. I don't hang around where apostates breathe.

To be fair it has nothing to do with apostates or the French. The term is often used a mockery term for those who prepare for any bad situation, an SHTF moment type. Likewise with a grey man or woman; something that @Matthew9969 asked in question on past with an unaware question.

The irony is, although these people are mocked, they are the very ones to at most survive the most harsh situation and or better protect a majority of their belongings. So even in reality, some apostates who complain about today's situations, for example Ukraine (notice they never mention any of their own in that regard) or the height of egg prices, etc. those who prepare are not as worried, even those with basic preps.

That being said, with the situation that just took place in the United Kingdom liken to other EU countries, I can assure you the down by the river types are normally the ones to outlive most; mainly when a situation rises, example below: Both have above average, perhaps expertise in this regard is more so advanced and both aid those who listen, only the one on the right is ex-military with that experience under his belt.

There will be some tribulations some will endure and some will not endure. Makes me wonder of the man from UK who always posts here after I warned him since 2018 what will happen in his country, ignoring the meaning behind Proverbs 22:3.

@AnnaNana Whole Blood and the latter (which can no longer become blood due to protein hemoglobin) are two different things. As of recent, you did what you alluded to being against, your conscience as an individual, a living soul, allowed you to take action.

As for the other notions, conscience matter allows a person to attest to what is good and avoid what is bad, mainly if they're morally upright compared to their immoral counterparts.

Recommend you look what Apostle Paul had said, as is the Christ in regards to that. The examples can be found in Scripture by almost anyone, hence the examples provided regarding Israel.

13 minutes ago, Matthew9969 said:

How about you go first, it seems you live in a van down by the river...which river would that be?

Ironically enough, this is something people will opt for instead of giving in to the WEF and those in connection. You'd be surprised why Hollywood mocks such folks when in reality, they seek survival from a legitimate threat. I'm sure as we speak, The British folks who do not want to be subjected are trying to fend off said affiliates. A shared fate in the US sadly.

41 minutes ago, Moise Racette said:

I've been called Allen. Does it matter to this poster? Is it that important that this poster should bring up such meaningless determination?

Can I then deduce this poster is @JW Insider, @TrueTomHarley, @xero

Does this poster then wish to pick a fight by posting such an opinion just like @Pudgy?

That being said, should I not USE "that being said" not, to be confused with this poster?

It was a minor curious thought because only after sometime I see the mannerism in response.

You can use that for any concessive statement or to conclude, even refer to something. It isn't much of an exclusive saying or yield any manners of speech. As for the others, I am aware of their mannerism already, only one has an equivalent, with a strong interest for a Scott Adam's character.

@TrueTomHarley Reminds me of the 1970s Japanese Spider-Man meme, you unmask him, but it is still the same person... With another mask underneath.

Actually no, Conscience matter is a matter of individuality.

 A Conscience is the sense or consciousness of the moral goodness or blameworthiness of one's own conduct, intentions, or character together with a feeling of obligation to do right or be good (the opposite, to do bad). Concerning matters, it equates to something that people must decide about according to what they believe is morally right - and that is the issue is a matter of (individual) conscience. It is also akin to Free Will and the ability to Critical (as well as rational) think, to objective analysis and evaluation of an issue in order to form a judgment.

It has nothing to do with an alternative lifestyle, nor is it isolated to that, unless you are a person of the world, but as Christians, we have a conscience to take/not take actions, to accept/decline something, etc. Apostle Paul is very vocal of this too.

Take this in example - An 8 year old little girl, perhaps living somewhere in the suburbs of the West coast, we'll call her, Sara. Sara is easily feel uncomfortable when watching her close friend speak disrespectfully to her mother, so much so, the close friend is saying she hates her mother for not buying her that Barbie Doll the other day, and spouting that she does not love her; crying ensues. Sara sees this, and knows that this is wrong — that is conscience. The child, Sarah, knows that it is NOT OK to talk that way to a parent, especially to the very person who gave birth to the child in question, and Sara feels the emotions within herself that are telling her it's not right.

So as you can see even at that age, the right vs wrong aspect can be seen.

Even in Bible times we have many, examples of Conscience matter, remember this passage - 2 Cor 6:14–7:1 along with the references - Do Not Take a Wife of the Daughters of Canaan. Some men actually gave into said conscience whereas others, knowing it is wrong, did not.

Let's put you in an example - If you were Sarah's mother and you see Sarah friend abusively yelling and disrespecting her mother, in the public eye of many in the store, you saying that you will not succumb to conscience matters to evaluate what you are witnessing?

Or perhaps you lived in the ancient days, your child's friends in the camp kept talking about the Daughters of Canaan, and suggest that there is no issue, and the Yahweh will not take issue if the goal for these men were to bring them into the faith of the people of Israel; forgetting the fact they're talking about paganist meanwhile those same women joke that they can easily sway a man of your camp, your son included, with attempting to trick them. I am sure your figurative son will see this isn't right and so will you.

They see nothing wrong, but your son sure does. The women however, see that it is no big deal.

Queen Jezebel was a Ba'al worshipper, alongside her husband who listens to her call. Although she herself had a conscience, she was not affiliated with Israel at all, if you forget she was down with paganism. Then there is Elijah, who was not only tasked by the God of Israel, but he himself had a conscience, realizing that paganism is bad, as is Ba'al worship and what the Queen was getting the people into. some people have morals, others do not, all beings are living, have a conscience and can make actions depending on the type of matter and or situation, as is in action. Same case with Jeroboam which does not really have to be explained on how that played out.

Medical philosophies... That isn't how it works, Anna. Those components are within the human body, specifically fluids, it has little to do with the world. Surely if you had a medical emergency of some kind, you'd seek the medical attention, one doctor could say via his analysis and his conscience  that you need to cut off both your legs to survive, another doctor elsewhere will do the same, but knows a better way to save your life and your legs from being amputated. That is one example, then you have those aging who suffer from things who need to take something to prolong themselves or fight off an ailments, in some cases, younger folks suffer in such regard too. The list goes on.

You really need to be careful with these notions for that if the bible was to be used in this regard, it will not be in your favor.
 
Seems to me you are adding things of your own opinions, so you might want to really do an evaluation on yourself, or where ever you get your information.

Lastly, you might want to re-read everything pertaining to Elijah vs Jezebel regarding one's conscience.
That being said, seems contradictory to even what is known and what is deemed false, can't be mixing these notions together to conjure things.

That being said, regarding the latter, a Conscience matter - you have a conscience, you can think and you have free will,

• You made the decision to open your device.
• Search this website. Login.
• Formulate what you are going to say.
• Then Post it.
• I am sure you know what is good for you to eat vs what is not good for you to eat throughout the day as well.

In a sense, you just did what you are trying to refute against.

Everyone, be it good or bad, is subjected to this, today, in the past, and in Bible times, as long as the mind is there, and the ability to function.

But concerning blood, there are reasons as to why some seek alternatives and or try to avoid transfusions or use of whole blood. There is also a dark side. Unfortunately, EXJWs or anyone influenced by them, and their puppet masters in the Trinitarian space, will not speak of the truth to anyone. Should  someone speak the truth about blood, they are on attack mode.

Don't forget the FBI getting into this concerning the other factor in all this, bird flu.

Like I said,

On 1/25/2023 at 1:11 PM, Space Merchant said:

eggs being somewhat of a luxury

Just be prepared, have risk assessments in check, etc.

@Moise Racette Sadly, they'll continue to dwell on their own delusion. As long as the Police Report exists, the hearsay will not get far expect remain confined to their own isolated community. The good thing is the Thornton community is aware of what is true, so much so, some of them are combatting EXJW misinformation, like the screenshot provided, I have several more of these as well.

The Thornton police however, had a rough few weeks, and this situation was not even the worse of it for them.

That being said, the question addressed I already know it won't be answered by Witness, reasons being you have The Police report vs the Ex-Bethlite, only one is correct and the other is wrong. All followers of Christ should be sticking to what is true, but this is an example of willfully following of deception, an alleged Firstfruit no less to be doing this. That is a problem.

18 hours ago, Moise Racette said:

The poster should learn first who the poster is defending. Then the poster, blasphemous ideology of equating Jesus with this person should serve as a reminder to visitors how obtuse the poster is.

The mannerism in this statement alone. By chance, @Dmitar, correct? Even after 300+ days away from here, mannerism in how some words and things are conveyed I can still recall after reading at least a dozen comments in order to deduce.

I am pretty sure that information is a little bit skewed. Due to seeing the notions from both former and current members: Current Jehovah's Witness based the view of abstaining from blood from Acts15:20; 21:25, the argument coming from EXJWs is that this should NOT be practiced, and argue transfusions didn't exist at the time along with other notions, some even address it as a human sacrifice, but they forget blood within the human body exists and moving blood from one body to another reaps problems. The notion is also followed by none JWs, some people of specific backgrounds as is those skeptical about medicine.

The wine that symbolizes Christ's blood differs from the blood of common man. Christ was perfect and sinless, every other human birthed out of Eve are imperfect and were never born in the only beget manner like Jesus.

Fractions no longer becomes blood at a certain point. Mainly if you understand blood components, protein hemoglobin, etc. Fractions are derived from the four primary blood components—red cells, white cells, platelets, and plasma. Such procedures can also be used to treat patients who have acute anemia or massive blood loss.

Not quite, although medical affiliates can offer abortions and hormonal treatments, people if given the choice can refuse, even via a moral standpoint. even by means of force if the government is involved, one can refuse, likewise with COVID-19 vaccinations, which this is ironic one when people take issue with Christians refusing blood. Every person make a life and death medical decisions. This goes for those who accept or deny the use of blood, they understand risk and they know that no surgeon gives 100% guarantees. So people need to logically take action, even in a Biblical sense.

Blood fractions is a conscience matter, granted that hemoglobin subs can effectively render whole blood as something no more. Even with that in mind, some people will often use the blood transfusion argument, the use of whole blood, time and time again without the facts.

That being said, the blood contamination fiasco was enough to push some common folk to see other alternatives and not transfusions, for blood transfusion does have a dark side to it. even in my case, there are people, some of the non religious, in my culture who avoid it because of superstition issues.

@Moise Racette There are many eyes on the US Capitol in Washington DC. More so now with what is taking place in Atlanta, as well as the situation in Memphis concerning the tragic death of Tyre Nichols.

It should be noted anyone who is protesting, will most likely be tracked by officials, even though the type of protest isn't political; for they did this with Trump supporters prior to the events of January 6th. But it will draw in some problems because the EXJWs will attempt to deal with something they do not know properly, such as the laws (depending on the state) as is The Constitution in regards to Freedom of Religion and practice of a legitimate faith.

Excommunication is a form of ecclesiastical censure (Bible based) by which a person is excluded from the communion of believers, the rites or sacraments of a church, and the rights of church membership but not necessarily from membership in the church as such. Some method of exclusion belongs to the administration of all Christian churches and denominations, indeed of all religious communities. It isn't unlawful for a church to practice something which id affiliated with the church and it is a disciplinary action that can be used if necessary.

Commentary notes -

Quote

Smith’s Bible Dictionary:

“Excommunication, as exercised by the Christian Church, is not merely founded on the natural right, possessed by all societies, nor merely on the example of the Jewish Church and nation. It was instituted by our Lord (Matt. xviii. 15, 18), and it was practised and commanded by St. Paul (1 Tim. i. 20; 1 Cor. v. 11; Tit. iii.10).”

Barnes’ Notes say:

“The meaning of this is, cease to have religious intercourse with him, …Regard him as obstinate, self-willed, and guilty…we should disown him as a Christian brother…This is the only way of kindness. This is the only way to preserve peace and purity in the church.”

It is known the Jehovah's Witnesses practice this, but calls it Disfellowshiping, although the notion is the same. The argument of the owner of the video is that such a practice is isolated to JWs and alluded that it is an old world practice that is not suppose to be practiced at all.

My concern is the Opportunists, it has been a while since I dealt with political groups, primarily before the COVID-19 tomfoolery. But knowing such, there will be people going there either to drum up trouble, or what is common nowadays pertaining to large groups, there are some who seek brazen pleasures with unsuspecting persons or monetary gain.

That being said, the aftermath will further cause the decline of any disgruntled member and evidently be a crushing blow on themselves.

The more people do the research to find out that there are lies being spread, then they'll realize why the disdain for anyone deemed an Apostate, and or, as the Conservatives and Centrists had mentioned back in Kentucky, an enemy of Freedom, the last thing you want to do is try to fight them on the 1st amendment, something Pearl affiliates did, as did the UN.

Hypothetically speaking also, if they really want to destroy a faith or remove any rules of any sort, Babylon is calling.

Refresh and click then message, or hover over the profile, the other option was you could have easily used the status message system on @AnnaNana's profile to send a status message if this was meant to be private.

Hopefully concerning private matters if could be continued in this matter otherwise, this is public now.

Don't know who said that, but the truth is, there are many people in various schools and institutions who do know how to combat abuse, this includes Jehovah's Witnesses. A lot of what CSA prevention attest to, some of these folks apply.

There are things known that some who attest to specific claims, are unaware of, despite the claim of experience.

If a community apply solutions, their chance of protecting members within their community increases, the more that apply, the better the safeguard. Even via Biblical standards, it increases. Although cannot be eradicated, for no one is immune, any aftermath, those well equipped know what to do and how to handle it, at the same time abiding by whatever laws that the state has in place.

@AnnaNana The majority gave praise to Putin and Russia for the ban and sought for such actions to engulf the US. At the same time make no acknowledgement of their own in Ukraine prior to Martial Law, so that is unlikely of the latter. even more true due to my contacts who lived in Russia, some who had since fled to other counties like Romania.

The bottom line is all who is unaware will be hit by what is to come, some of which was mentioned on this forum for sometime now, although some will try not to admit it, as is reveal ignorance.

It should be noted regarding faith, what transpired in 2016 will make a resurgence by a huge margin in the coming months. anyone who didn't fall for it then, won't fall for it later on and it should attest to question such folks are the ones who are actually seeking Christ and or of Christ.

The KON isn't secluded to one person, it is the collective and or entity, akin to those of Babylon who collective to this day sought peace whereas it's counterpart seeks security.

22 hours ago, Moise Racette said:

A mentally unstable person that wants to blame something on others instead of their own failures in life will go through extreme judgment on those people he/she has targeted. In this case, he made the Org the target to tarnish and discredit.

This Marcus guy is known among the EXJWs to spin stories, mixing truths with half truths. What is far more bewildering is his take on background checks, which does not always work but he thinks it is absolute, as is his take on the Constitution. Not to mention, tragically, this is the same person who defended Russia's action on Jehovah's Witnesses.

The only good thing is when anyone with a rational mind listens to his videos and align the facts next to it, the facts will win out 100% of the time. This Marcus guy is trying to use the situation to his advantage, as is his agenda which mirrors with the remaining small batch of EXJWs in existence.

As we speak, there is another community, ironically EXJWs who has no beef with JWs who, although agreeing and disagreeing with some notions of their former faith, they are strong and quick to shut down any false information provided by persons like Witness or similar. I only learned of this community from one former JW who since left the so called apostate army because of the death threats some people made against JWs, one threat including a hunt, entrap and gas type of threat which mirrors that of Nazis did to the Jews; which was his final straw in leading the disgruntled EXJWs.

22 hours ago, Moise Racette said:

This will be unknown, since there are circumstances that a wife agrees with the husband's suicide pact, or vice versa.

So, who knows what was in her mind. The fact she was there speaks volumes.

https://nypost.com/2023/01/23/ellen-gilland-76-killed-sick-husband-as-part-of-suicide-pact-cops/

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/27643706/

Indeed. But even the possibly of wanting to commit harm but not dying can be another factor. If there was some note or letter of some kind left behind, it would have given us an idea.

22 hours ago, Moise Racette said:

Another reason why that person showed not repentance or remorse. Unwillingness to remove himself from his old self. There are biblical reasons why God's church needs to be kept clean, from unrepentant souls. His actions proved it.

Yes, even outside of faith the fact this person threatened people he worked with falls in line with Workplace Violence, for such threats can be the catalyst to get someone kicked out, especially if someone is agreeing to said threats.

There was an internal situation in one of the investor banks, will not say the name, but there was a contractor back in 2019 who threat to end the lives of other contractors and security officials, this took place within their warehouse. Not only this person was kicked out, he was blacklisted from ever working in a similar investor bank again. Just as a church or a community seeks to do its best to keep things clean, as is with other institutions. But this Ex-Bethlite thinks such action is isolated to JWs alone.

19 hours ago, Witness said:

No, I don't know this person "well" except for listening to a few of his videos. 

When you listen, you have to understand that his word vs the police report do not line up at all. Even as a Christian, people should not fall for anything that is clearly misleading. A lot of people are guilty of this, and are often duped by some misleading information, be it from persons or a news source, ironically, even some JWs are guilty of this too.

19 hours ago, Witness said:

You have a lot of,  well  some, good qualities that I personally can detect, SM; but I will say this again, you don't know what it's like to be a JW, you have no clue what living that life is all about.

Culturally, we my people, even outside of faith, are suppose to be good and abstain from dishonorable conduct and action, being of faith simply amplifies that.

Witness, this was said again, you do not have to be among Jehovah's Witnesses to realize that you are being lied to by former members. In addition to that, I have an idea, so much so, in my absence since my last responses to you regarding archives, within 300 days, I met many, many people, members of other faiths, did my usually debates with those who adhere to the Trinity, as is help and comfort children, in addition to that, I met nearly over 60 JWs around the state, some of them, I did challenge on how to result some issues at a grounded level, something you or any EXJW for some reason refrain from doing. I have met even EXJWs and challenged them on facts, and they stuck to falsehood, among said challenges was regarding ARC and actual pedophiles among EXJWs themselves who I deduce as Opportunists (thanks to the aid of groups who fight CSA by seeking molesters out.)

Also how are you able to personally detect one's cultural aspect? That is impossible to do so, being a normal imperfect human of course. We do not know each other so knowing this personally, is a false assessment, as is unverified.

19 hours ago, Witness said:

You certainly have no basis to say that the man was telling a falsehood about what he witnessed during his time in Bethel. 

Unfortunately, I am in that realm to call out falsehoods when I see it. The man in question, Marcus is no different from Rick Fearon and others. In this case the Thornton Police Report differs completely from what this Ex-Bethlite is attesting to. To make matters worse, he is telling his audience that this was the fault of Jehovah's Witnesses 100% when in reality it is the other way around.

Going by the police over this Ex-Bethlite, the police report attesting to the fact this man was already deem problematic, to his former employers and his former faith, perhaps this was the very reason Enoch was kicked out via Excommunication by means of the Jehovah's Witnesses. Surely, if you were either any of the JWs or employer, if a man threats to end your life and anyone around you, you'd not want him sticking around long, now do you? Ironically, the Ex-Bethlite did NOT address this although this was in the report.

The note was already addressed: Just over a year before the explosions and shooting, a representative of Apodaca's former employer said that he had told a Local 68 union representative that he would shoot his wife and the union representative after he and his wife lost their jobs...

Marcus did not even say this to his EXJW audience, which includes you.

Marcus also addressed that these people had 0 contact with any member of the Jehovah's Witnesses, but this is false because in the report, if you actually read it, Enoch was the one who actually spoke with someone of the faith. Marcus also tried to throw the Apodaca Family into this mess to try and refute Excommunication practices of the faith. It is already said by some if they were still among JWs or had access to more of that faith, the death toll would be higher.

I remember saying the EXJWs have an agenda, this is a prime example of this notion.

As another note, we had a situation sometime ago, the Keego Harbor mom to murder-suicide in which even EXJWs spun this story, some like Marcus, who did this. some even attested to the fact the Jehovah's Witnesses themselves provided this woman the gun, which is false, not to mention the couple in this case willfully left the faith themselves.

19 hours ago, Witness said:

You are either highly naive, or highly arrogant in your assumptions.

You're defending falsehood. The truth is in the Thornton Police Department Report itself, something of which the Ex-Bethlite did NOT address because it does not fit, his agenda. It should be noted to that area in the United States is prone with violence for some time now, including the situation in question.

That being said, you tell us time and time again you are Christian, but you as a Christian should realize you are defending falsehood when the facts is present. In this case I need not be strict because from what has transpired, seems as though your base is dying out.

It is also a bit of hypocrisy, granted, EXJWs seek to use the genuine police officers for any wrongdoing, but when the police says something, somehow it is no believable.

You truly need to wake up, can;t be sleeping as a member of Christ's church.

@AnnaNana Ok, but this has nothing to do with the question addressed since you did coin some of the terms.

There is talks about the Amazon Fresh store that opened up in London. Should it become successful, it could pose a problem for others stores, and later on will try to compete and will unfortunate adopt the same format.

The more they get you into the system, the more they have control over everything you own.

Even just days before, The rapper Rick Ross mentioned something interesting about Tesla and EV cars, which could be a possibility in the future should the government seek such an option, and surely, they would consider such an idea when they win people over with the pros rather than cons.

My question is, why haven't you [or those like you] taken action based on the same material concerning the matter, within or out of the faith? Time and time again for years, the same actors will attest to the same thing, but never any of them try to bring forth a solution that benefits both parities. Those that do are often given death threats by other former members of the faith. the irony is, even among former members, a few of them drew in Opportunists who, aren't so kind to children either, but at the same time pretend they were not there. I said many times, there are people like myself, who are not against CSA, but had been fighting against it for years, and when we see others attempting to emulate us but do so in a warpath like mentality, it makes us look bad and it is problematic for victims, so much so, some among you even attack and send death threats to sex abuse victims, which is very contradictory.

As for as Revelations and calculations go, a lot of this stuff was talked about in the past, and many of it was spoken with respect to the Greek text itself, even contextually. As is with various events concerning Babylon, of which some of us are aware of and had seen. Also if you are alluding to that whole UN thing, judging by the facts, the faith group was never ever part of the United Nations, there was no DPI status in connection to a charter registration or signature.

Perhaps next time when you post, provide something grounded.

You have to realize the world is not perfect and so is man. Imperfection came forth by means of the Original sin via Adam and Eve, therefore such imperfections run wildly around the world, it isn't isolated to a single person, group, whatever.

9 hours ago, Moise Racette said:

I would say, it was more agenda driven. If those two wanted to reach out to the church to repent, they would have been given that opportunity. The fact they wanted to seek counsel from a body of Elders that were not part of their original church, makes me think, they weren't willing to repent but instead wanted to sidestep themselves into being accepted at a different KH. That happens only to often with people that believe, they have nothing to repent about. Elders can't read the hearts of people, but God can.

The actions of Bonnie and Clyde also worked to that end, where they thought they could somehow tarnish the Org.  Foolish last thoughts.

Perhaps, but I don't know about willingness to repent especially with some of the things representatives had said about him. Often times if someone plans to go out with a bang, they want to take others with them. If the Jehovah's Witnesses actually complied here and he had access to several of them, it would lead to potentially more deaths. As for the wife, I doubt she would've wanted to die, especially the manner of the death was execution style, perhaps he feels as though if he wanted to go out, believes his wife would wish the same. Due to the fact a shotgun was involved, even gun nuts in the firearm community feel as though this situation will vilify them. Thornton however, has been having a lot of violence and trouble for some time now,as with other parts of the united States.

Or they could have seen their former faith as an easy target. Possibly if they had continued from there, other people would be hurt, mainly the very people that they worked with. Other than that lock downs and other notions have caused people to go crazy, specifically with how horrid employment is in the states with some people losing their minds.

As for their excommunication, the JWs probably knew something about the couple that when it came to light, resulted in them being kicked out. Need to look into this but from what was said by some that the husband, Enoch, had a police record which involving drugs and theft, as is possibly being on the FBI's watch going back 2003, but that is unknown, so that has to be confirmed to be proven true or false. We do know he likes to threaten people, which was reported, and possibly put his place of employment and the JW church at edge.

11 hours ago, Witness said:

The Watchtower has hidden pedophiles for years among their ranks, although many JWs refuse to believe it. In light of that gross immorality, to also believe that Bethel doesn't have, or had issues with homosexuality, is just as foolish.  

Pedophiles are not as hidden as what some and even EXJWs has said, granted, even pedophiles among the very people that EXJWs themselves have among them, i.e. in their community or places like reddit, known to harbor pedophiles interact and pretend to believe what others do without venting; especially when Opportunists are involved. The more you hang out with people who fight CSA, the more you find out. It should be noted, that pedophiles who seek to commit harm or injury to children will inevitably get into spaces where there is kids, only a handful of people are capable of handling the situation and or picking up red flags (which I listed before), something of which was addressed many many times before, even to you. As well as ways to provide solutions in order to combat the problem, these solutions being both Biblical, practical and grounded, so much so even CSA prevention are the very ones advocating for such things you and EXJWs should have been preaching about but never did.

Example - https://centerforchildprotection.org/preventing-child-sexual-abuse/

As for the other part of your remark, you completely miss the point and you surely do know this particular EXJW well. The video this man made a while back, he himself mentioned male Jehovah's Witnesses were essentially kissing/making out with each other, even in the face of others as if it isn't a problem. We already know this to be false because such actions they, along with most Christians see this as a gross conduct as is giving a biblical reason as to why such is unreasonable when it comes to the church, even using Colossians 3:5 regarding unreasonable notions that today's people follow, not to mention videos and information from this man and other EXJWs that came later on which contradicts such claims. We also know that Jehovah's Witnesses are not fans of same-sex marriage.

According to them -  God intended marriage to be a permanent, intimate bond between a man and a woman. Men and women are designed to complement each other so they may be capable of satisfying each other’s emotional and sexual needs and of providing children.

There were videos by EXJWs who attest to the fact JWs are Anti-Gay and along with that preach their damnation, as some former members try to also proves this with LGBTQ affiliates who are either among them or the ones they follow. Such as often been used to be weaponized by the group in question and emboldened some affiliates of the LGBTQ to assume another ally against the Christian faith in general, not just Jehovah's Witnesses.

It is only foolish if you just to believe unverified opinions of such persons, which you still have trouble on fixing because you continue to do this. As for your other video... That can easily be debunked, and it can be debunked using information from former members of JWs who take issue with disgruntled EXJWs.

That being said, if you do not take the time to actually do the research, that the problem lies with you. As for the original topic at hand, the first video you posted that Ex-Bethlite as he calls himself mislead his audience (not the first time either), and it seems to be he has misled you as well because the Police Report and the couples history, specifically Enoch can easily counter it via facts, even by the Non-Religious.

On 1/5/2023 at 1:06 PM, Amidstheroses said:

I have no idea about his morality, Moise, but he mumbled something that almost sounded like ‘Wallkill Bethelite’ at the beginning, then proceeded to speak as if he had no inside idea of:

1) what disfellowshipping is; carries on as if it is a permanent state with no way out

2) Repeatedly refers to JW’s as a cult

3) Signs off with an audible “Ex-Wallkill Bethelite“

4) Repeatedly: speaks negatively about JWs and proposes legal or community action against JW’s because of their religious beliefs and practices.

To save anyone from wasting their time listening to this, this man is an Apostate. 

If I am not mistaken, this is the same person who, believe it or not, said he saw JWs advocating for same-sex relationships, and also claim to witness two men in a relationship in these Bethelites JW churches, only came across such prior to the 2017 situation a while back, but I recognize his face. The irony here is this man does not even consider the facts mentioned in the police report.

What is crazy is whenever there are situations like this, they spin doctor it in a way to push a narrative, or agenda. This is also isn't the first time, for there were other murder suicides, one including the woman who had a gun, although being excommunicated for years, having nothing to do with her former church, is somehow the fault of other members of the faith, some even went as far as to say the JWs gave her the gun to end her family, and trying to push that idea to people even JWs, specifically one fellow in the UK attempted to do a while back.

That being said, ran into some who suffered similar situations, even one in particular of whom I was friends with, a good soul, ended by a teen responsible for the Oxford Shooting, so when people mislead using these situations, it is hellishly sickening, and rightfully so, a disrespect.

The murder suicide was narrowed it down to a degree of a personal dispute as well as noted as a Homicide. When the story dropped, some former members, EXJWs, of the faith will automatically assume this was the faith community's doing, even going as far as to discredit the police report done by Thornton Police Department, which, when the report is read, the man [Enoch Apodaca, 46] was already a ticking time bomb, along side his wife [Melissa [Martinez] Apodaca, 44], for before he even got to the JW Church, he was doing nefarious things previously, the issue he had with his place of business resulting in an explosion after he exited with a bucket.

Quote

Apodaca went to the International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers Local 68 building, which police called his "place of business," where he was seen entering the building with a bucket at around 8:45 a.m. Shortly after he left, there was a "large explosion," police said. The building was closed at the time and no one was hurt. Police said that the explosive devices used at Kingdom Hall match the one planted at the electrical workers' building.

Once the explosion took place, Adam's County Fire Department as well as the Sheriffs responded and acted accordingly to such situations that took place, but Enoch had since left the scene, thankfully no one was hurt in the blast because the business was closed on Christmas Day. 9AM police ended up arriving to the situation at the JW Church, which was not too far from where the first incident took place. From what is reported, Enoch was instructing his wife to essentially break into the church via their truck, then you have explosives inside of the church itself after they essentially busted in. After the deed was done, Enoch shot his wife, execution style, then ended his own life; weapon of choice, The Shotgun.

Quote

Police were called to Kingdom Hall at around 9:00 a.m., officials said, after a structure fire and shooting were reported. Investigators found that Apodaca had directed his wife, Melissa Martinez, to back a black Dodge truck up to a window of the building. Apodaca broke the window with a hammer, placed the explosives, and then approached his wife from behind with a shotgun. He shot her in the back of the head, then shot himself, police said. There were two other people in the hall at the time, but they were not injured, police said.

Both use to be former members of the Church, but were excommunicated and it seems as though for a long time now. They ended up speaking to church elder but were instructed to speak to the elders of their original Church prior to this event. To be excommunicated they, Enoch specifically, was a very problematic. Enoch also had issues with his place of employment, thus having a personal vendetta.

Even before this situation, this guy was very crazy, perhaps reasons why JWs distanced themselves from him.

Quote

Apodaca also reportedly told the representative that he would "come after the people responsible" for him and his wife both losing their jobs. According to an application for a protection order against Apodaca filed in December 2021, Apodaca had been fired in June of that same year, but the application didn't say why. Police said that investigators found no further explosives at the couple's homes, but did find "numerous items consistent with the manufacturing of explosives similar to those found in Kingdom Hall."

Just over a year before the explosions and shooting, a representative of Apodaca's former employer said that he had told a Local 68 union representative that he would shoot his wife and the union representative after he and his wife lost their jobs,

So the more anyone looks into this, the less it has to do with the JW church or it's members, but rather, the ordeal that many people had to deal with in 2020-2021, job wise, for people tend to go crazy and take it out on anything or anyone who are familiar with, be it person or group.

For some reason, Mark Jones (possibly someone in the police force) is being tossed into this, blamed by some, which makes no sense.

Lastly, the situation could have been far worse. Enoch did contact an elder of the church as mentioned, if he had been welcomed back, and there were other JWs present, and the latter had ill intent, there would have been more than 2 bodies that day, a lot of deceased members of the faith, luckily, as some assumed, but were mistaken, JWs don't celebrate Christmas and were not present that day, expect two guys inside the church, who were probably there for bible study or fixing the place up, one discovered the explosives device I believe.

That being said, those who don't seek truth in regards to events like this, are doing an ultimate disservice to the people. This goes for weaponizing the situation - you know who you are.

@Mic Drop Possibly changed because of the teetering tower that is Ukraine, and the proxy war taking place there, as is Bojo making an appearance and coining the statement - "Ukraine must join Nato for sake of long-term peace". In the end, for most, even when not involved, it will indirectly impact them.

That being said, the IRS will be making moves that will not make anyone happy, and grid type blackouts for some, and eggs being somewhat of a luxury.