JOHN BUTLER

Space Merchant, you are entitled to your opinion of course. I disagree with you. I was not only talking about the Royal Australian Commision, but also Canada, The Netherlands, UK and USA. And what about the countries that are not bothered about looking into such things ?  I really do dread to think what the Earthwide scale of child abuse is like within the JW Org. And why have the Governing Body of JW /WT gone against the law of the land in the USA by refusing to hand over the documents relating to child abuse accusations in America ? The scriptures say to obey the law of the land as long as it does not conflict with God's laws. I'm sure God would be happier to have JW Org cleared of pedophiles and cleared of accusations of child abuse. Plus it seems to be costing the Org $4,000 per day in fines which it seems amounts to over $2 million by now. In my opinion that money does not belong to the Governing Body to waste in that way. It would have been money donated to help with the Earthwide work of spreading 'the God's news of God's Kingdom'... And to say that child abuse / pedophilia is everywhere is just a very poor excuse. Now please read this carefully. As one of Jehovah's Witnesses I believed that the JW Org / Watchtower Soc' 'was 'no part of the world'. I believed that the Org was completely separate from the 'world'. I based this thinking on Jesus' words that He was no part of the world and that His followers / disciples would be no part of the world. Hence when you and others compare JW Org to other organisations / religions /  bodies of people, it makes no sense to me. My point being, if God was using the JW Org for His own purposes, to educate people of 'all tribes and nations', to bring people together Earthwide into an ARK like situation, as an Organisation of people that would be saved through Armageddon, then why would God allow His Org to be so contaminated by disgusting behavior ? Jesus said the religious leaders in Jerusalem were like Whitewashed Graves, clean on the outside but full of dead men's bones. Is it then so with the JW Org ? The Governing Body of JW Org call themselves 'the faithful and discreet slave'. Note I say that they call themselves by that title. Whereas the scripture says 'Who really is the faithful and discreet slave'. Surely only God will decide who is, and God's decision would surely be made on the 'works' of those ones. If, as it seems, the Governing Body is hiding pedophiles within the Org', then surely they cannot be doing what God wants them to be doing.. You see my approach is trying very hard to be unemotional but practical..... If God has a purpose for mankind and for His creation this planet Earth,  then surely God would have an organisation to use, so as to tell everyone that will listen, about God's purposes and requirements.  God had Noah and his family build the Ark to carry them through the destruction of the early world. God had Moses lead His people from Egypt and through the Red Sea. God had his rules and regulations written down for the Nation of Israel. God had His religious leaders in Israel to offer up the sacrifices for the people. So it seems that God has always been organised and has always shown His people the right direction to go in. Doing so God has also kept His people away from the people of the 'world'. In fact God punished His people when they mixed with the people of the 'world' and when they practise false religion. So, now, surely God has a special Organisation of His own ? The question I'm asking is, is it Organisation Jehovah's Witnesses or not? Because if it is then it needs cleaning out very much. If it isn't then God needs to show people clearly whom He is using..... Space Merchant I can see we disagree on much. On religious beliefs as well as on the JW Org's methods of doing things. One of the biggest problems within the JW Org's 'methods' seems to be, or have been, that people were told NOT TO report child abuse to the police or outside authorities. So if nothing is reported then the police etc know nothing, hence nothing gets done.  It seems to have been left to the Elders of the congregation to act, and if the person being accused is an Elder then it seems (and is quite possibly so) that the other Elders take the side of that Elder and dismiss the accusation. Another point that the Org uses is a scripture, which I'm sure was never meant to be used in this way, which says that a person must have two witnesses to any accusation for it to be investigated. Now it would seem almost impossible for a child to have two witnesses stood by whilst they are being sexually abused by someone else. And I don't think it is a legal requirement in a court of law to have two witnesses that directly saw it happen, it's only a rule within the JW Org.  One last point, as this is getting too  long for one comment.  The Elders are told to keep it a secret if there is a pedophile / known child abuser within it's congregation. Hence members of the congregation do not know if there is someone like that within their congregation. but enough for now. We are looking at JW Org from totally different viewpoints so will not agree on things. Have a good day. 

So then, where do you imagine the 'anointed' go to when they leave the Org' ?  Do they form another religious group ? Are you saying that there is no need to be an organised religion ?  The early Christians had a group of 'Older men' starting with the disciples / Apostles. They formed congregations as we know by Paul's writings.  It was only when the Romans took over Christianity that it got out of line really. My personal opinion is that the scriptures were written to be understood by an 'anointed class', not for everyone to understand, but then that causes the problem of needing an honest 'anointed class' of people.... I do agree with you about the Org changing the meaning of scriptures quite often. does it mean they are trying to jump ahead of the guidance from God ? Guessing their way through. It's difficult. Is JW / WT the true religion just needing cleansing ? Or is it totally wrong and is there a need for God to set up a new Organisation ? 

What a lot of twaddle this has been. The bible students were totally wrong about a lot of things, we all know that. Is any of this important ? Surely what is important is the state of the Organisation NOW. And it's in a very bad way that's for sure. As for JTR Jr, keep asking 'Is there anything better'? That's a bit like saying "I'm drinking poison but it's less poisonous than other poisons". Poison is still poison no matter how you compare it. I left the Org' because of the Earthwide pedophile problems and more so because the Governing Body refuse to hand over the documents to the Supreme court of California. They tried it on here in the UK too, but it didn't work. Why oh why would the Governing Body want to protect pedophiles within the Org' ? Why would the Governing Body introduce a rule about the two witnesses needed in such cases as Child Abuse. It's very obvious that God Himself didn't mean it to be used in that way. We have to remember that the Governing Body call themselves the Governing Body. The Governing Body also call themselves the 'Faithful and discreet slave'. The scripture says 'Who really is the faithful and discreet slave .... ' it does not say the 'bosses of the JW Org' are the faithful and discreet slave.  They have given themselves those titles. Self praise is no recommendation. They have even said that other anointed brothers and sisters are not of the 'faithful slave class'. They have the right to judge do they ? And to make it worse they have said via the Watchtower that some claiming to be anointed, may be mentally ill. Um, dictatorship comes to mind. Because here we have a group of eight men (there is a new one it seems) of mainly American background, that say they cannot be questioned as they are the only ones receiving God's Holy Spirit and therefore are the only ones capable of distributing the 'truth' / food at the proper time.  So, you lot can go on disputing Masons and other unimportant things, but i will look for answers about the problems in the Org' now, as i think what is happening now is far more important. 

I cannot understand why there is only partial information concerning the Jehovah's Witnesses and Watchtower Society Child Abuse accusations from around the Earth. I have just put a status on my FB page saying that : The one thing I have learnt in life is, that I don't know the truth about anything".  The reason for this is that there is always some doubt about things read 'online'. Are they true ? Does one want them to be true? Are my opinions correct?   So with that in mind I will continue with the information I 'have read online'. 

We all know that Child Abuse and Sexual Abuse accusations are, or appear to be 'in fashion' right now. In politics, in entertainment, and in religion. But Jehovah's Witnesses claim to be 'no part of the world', that is the 'world' that belongs to Satan the Devil. So it would come as a surprise then that from top to bottom the JW's are being accused of Child Abuse Earthwide. 

What I've noted so far : The Australian Royal Commission did a three year investigation into the JW org, most of which is available online to read. They found that since 1950 there were 1006 accusations of Child Abuse within the Australian branch of Jehovah's Witnesses, none of which were reported to the police or secular authorities........... In Canada there have been large court cases in Quebec and Ontario againse JW org..... A $66 million lawsuit against the religion's leadership is taking place.....  In the Netherlands 'Reclaimed Voices' foundation have set up emergency phone lines and have put out advertisements concerning victims of abuse within the JW org there. The 'hotline' had received 80 replies as of December 28th 2017..... In the UK (where I am) the Charity Commision set up an inquiry into the UK branch of Jehovah's Witnesses regarding child abuse / sexual abuse. I think this started with the Manchester New Molton congregation in 2014. The Charity Commision also set up an inquiry into the Watchtower Soc (WTBTS) here in the UK. In Feb 2016. The Org went to court to try to block the investigations but failed. A former elder from South Wales said there was instructions to elders to destroy all documents regarding child abuse. There seemed to be a cost to the Org of over £1 million which I presume is court fines and payouts. 

Then of course we have the USA. In 2014 a $10.5 million lawsuit against JW Org by Valicia Alston and others. In 2015 the Candace Conti case against Jonathan Kendrick. And in April 2016 the Watchtower Soc' remained defiant in refusing to hand over documents about the Child Abuse in the USA branch of the JW Org.  Now it seems (and remember I'm only going on what I've read) that the JW Org in USA sent out a letter in 1997, to all elders of congregations in the USA. The letter was a direct instruction to the elders to send in ALL documents and information concerning accusations of Child Abuse / Sexual abuse both current and passed. This was to be an ongoing instruction and all information was to be sent in special blue envelopes to Brooklyn. Now there are approx' 14,000 congregations in the USA, and the time period from 1997 to 2017 is of course 20 years. So it would seem that the Governing Body have 20 years worth of accusations concerning Child Abuse and Sexual abuse with in it's USA congregations. However, despite court action and direct instruction to the JW Org / Watchtower Soc', the W/T and JW Org still refuse to hand over the documents to the High court. In November 2017 a High court of California fined the JW Org / WT Soc'  $4,000 per day for not handing over the documents, and it seems the cost so far to the Org / WT is more than           $2 million. I cannot find out if any of this money has been paid or is still owing. 

One other point that I found interesting (providing it's true of course) is that the Governing Body has deliberately separated the JW Org, known as the Christian Congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses, from the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society. Each of these now has its own Legal Department. The purpose of this is to slow down all court proceedings because the Legal Dept from one has to write to the Legal Dept of the other for information, then the legal Dept of the other refuses such information etc. This is what caused the Supreme Court of California to impose the heavy fines on the Org. Basically the court got fed up with the 'clowning around of the JW Org.  

So to sum up: It seems that many countries, Australia, Canada, the Netherlands, UK and USA, have found and proved many cases of child abuse / sexual abuse within the Jehovah's Witnesses and Watchtower Society. But what makes this worse is that the Governing Body of the Org' is deliberately withholding  the information about pedophiles within its ranks. Add to this that elders of congregations Earthwide are instructed not to inform their congregations about pedophiles within their congregation. And, congregation members are told not to report child abuse / sexual abuse within the congregations, to the Police or outside secular organisations. On top of this victims are not believed, because the Governing Body has made a rule that says there must be two witnesses to any accusation of abuse, which of course will not happen in the case of Child abuse or Sexual abuse.

About me : I was one of Jehovah's Witnesses until about a month ago.  After doing approx three months research online my conscience would no longer allow me to remain within the Organisation. How could I encourage other people to join an Organisation that allows Child Abuse /Sexual Abuse to continue unreported and unpunished within its ranks. There could be a pedophile within the congregation that I was part of, I would never know, because the Elders would keep it secret.... However, I do believe in God, whether His name is Jehovah, Yahweh or something else, and I am keeping my mind open as to how I will find the 'truth' of God's requirements. 

What i am hoping for is that some BIG media source will bring all the information together concerning all the Child Abuse / Sexual Abuse accusations against the Jehovah's Witnesses Org' and the Watchtower Soc' Earthwide, so that all info' is readily available to everyone. At the moment it all seems so 'bitty' and not organised. Yes there is info' online, but are the sources trustworthy. What is needed is a neutral unemotional factual report, please.