Patiently waiting for Truth

This is an important statement. In actuality many persons are on the "apostate spectrum." Some religions, just like gangs, or the mafia, don't allow one to just drift away. You have to be attacked and in effect, "neutralized."
With religion, it's usually fine to drift away if it highlights that the religion has moral standards that are hard to live up to. Then those who don't come back will sometimes even be seen as a kind of a badge of honor to the religion. (Not individuals, but in general.) But if there is any danger that the person will speak out against the teachings, practices or the basis of organization, then that person must be neutralized in some way so that few persons will listen to them.
Scientologists are famous for going after persons in a threatening way, or through legal means, to keep people from speaking out against their teachings or practices. In the same way, a whistleblower must be fired (by any means necessary) so that they suddenly become no more than a "disgruntled former employee." The Scientologists took over the entire C.A.N. (a huge online Cult Awareness Network forum) after forcing it into bankruptcy, because it was a haven for Scientology apostates.
But back to the benign end of the apostate spectrum.
Apostasy, by original definition, is a "standing away from." When Revelation 16 says to "get out of her, my people," this is a command to become apostates from false ideologies.
Therefore, at the benign end of the apostasy spectrum are those who realize that apostasy can be a good thing, by definition, in that all persons who convert to JWs from another religion, for example, are apostates from that other religion. Also, any who leave JWs because they can't live up to the moral standards or levels of activity expected, are "apostates" but JWs consider them generally harmless. Then there are those who leave because they no longer believe the teachings, but who don't say anything, and plan to keep very quiet about it, because they KNOW they might be seen as "malignant" apostate if they spoke up. Frederick Franz was infamous for trying to get persons declared apostate for even "thinking" that 1914 might be wrong, or some other teaching specific to Witnesses. 
But now, because of the phrase, "apostates do not drift away from the truth," those who "drift away" should not be seen as "apostates." Apostates, for purposes of the warnings in the talk, do not include those who drift away.
The absurdity of this idea has often been a talking point I would use with Bible Studies.
But I realized that Russell and Rutherford also believed that all Christians went to heaven, not only the 144,000 but even the great crowd of Revelation 7:14. The idea was that they would rule over the 20 billion people or more from "history" would be resurrected to the earth, including the faithful Hebrews of old, and of course the millions of persons then alive who would NOT be part of the great crowd, but who would never die because by 1925, the millennium's resurrection to earth would begin and living "worldly" people would stop getting sick. It was not clear that any Christians would remain with them on earth until the early 1930's.

The ONLY environment I know of where it would be smart NOT to factor this in is religion, where apparently contributed money NEVER stops flowing in, like a Japanese Tsunami.
Double negatives make my head hurt!

It appears that Kingdom Halls, like old people, and radioactive materials, have a "half life".
I am 73, so statistically, half of people my age will be dead in 10 years. At 83, half of those people will be dead in ten years.
Then it speeds up.
At the end, I hope to read about it on the Internet .... BECAUSE ... I read FOXNEWS, and not CNN.

Yes, that is better put, and I have heard brothers say this. Of course we aren't going to hoard any money because we know what the scriptures say about that. But that wasn't really what I was talking about. It was more to do with it being Jehovah's direction. But then JWI will probably remind me that since we are a faith based organization, then anything we do will ultimately be seen as God's direction, even if something isn't.. I don't really have a problem with that. What I don't like seeing is this being used as some kind of tool to make people acquiesce, or as a kind of passive aggressive manipulation by some, or as a cause for being judgemental. ie. If you don't obey, you must be less spiritual than me. With so many unbalanced individuals around, this could cause unnecessary stress I think. What I'm trying to say is I would prefer if it was presented as it really is: a sound financial decision which "makes better use of donated funds" and in order for it to work, your cooperation and support is needed and appreciated, and thank you.  🙂
That’s not what I had in mind. In fact every Witness knows that the GB is not Jehovah. But they also know that the Bible talks about obeying those taking the lead, i.e. the elders in a congregation which includes members of the GB since they are also elders. Do you have something against that scripture?
I don't need your approval 🙂
 
 

Hi. No problems with numbers :))) 
When you mentioned numbers, some would say how 144000 can be a symbolic number too, not literal. Because Lamb is also symbolic expression, and not literal creature. :))
I am not sure do they want to "Rule"...... or just to be in Paradise with him. :))
No problem Tom. That will not make me "mentally ill" :)).
Thesaurus. com
diseased
[ dih-zeezd ]SEE DEFINITION OF diseased adj.unhealthy Synonyms for diseased
afflicted ailing infected infirm rotten sickly indisposed infectious sick tainted unsound unwell unwholesome   ill
[ il ]SEE DEFINITION OF ill adj.sick adj.bad, evil nounmisfortune Synonyms for ill
afflicted ailing diseased infirm poorly woozy down a wreck below par bummed down with feeling awful feeling rotten feeling terrible got the bug indisposed laid low off one's feet on sick list out of sorts peaked queasy rotten run-down running temperature sick as a dog under the weather unhealthy unwell   Well, than it seems, how elders going above given power and position, because they, elders in congregations suppressing not only criticism but also critical thinking :)) 

You call yourself astute?
If you would use the head God gave you and focus, you would note that one GB member is eating a lot to be big as an elephant, one is stretching his neck like a giraffe, another growing stripes like a zebra, yet another shrieks like a macaw, and so forth. 
Look, everyone knows this. Why do you come to the table so ill-equipped in knowledge?
”My, what wolflike teeth you have, grandma”
”All the better to control you with, my dear.”

Um, empty K H's when the Governing Body say we are so close to the 'end of this system'. I thought there was supposed to be a massive influx near the end, not empty K H's. 
Actually it is quite difficult for a private person to get insurance for a minibus here in the UK.  The government seem to think it has to be for business use. And congregations will not support the running of a minibus, and elders make that clear. 
As for 'true Christians' travelling as far as it takes. That is not a loving thought. I know of older brothers and sisters that cannot drive in the dark. I think that here in the UK half of every congregation is old people. So where is this love that should abound in the 'truth' ?  

Does this way of thinking actually come from the 'world' ?  It seems to be a away of taking away the credibility of people.
I'm sure it's the type of thing you see in films, when someone wants to make another person feel insecure, or wants to make a person doubt themselves. 
If in fact the Governing Body are NOT inspired, then how would they actually know if someone else was ?  And i do think their attitude is passed down to the elders. 
A bit off topic but I had a funny thought.
Sometimes the Organisation is compared to Noah's Ark. However there were only EIGHT humans in that Ark and the rest were dumb animals that were controlled by those EIGHT humans.
Um how many members of the Governing Body are there ? Oh yes EIGHT.  And who in control of the Org ? Those EIGHT humans. Does make a person wonder exactly what the Governing Body thinks of all the rest in their Ark. 
 
 

Um, empty K H's when the Governing Body say we are so close to the 'end of this system'. I thought there was supposed to be a massive influx near the end, not empty K H's. 
Actually it is quite difficult for a private person to get insurance for a minibus here in the UK.  The government seem to think it has to be for business use. And congregations will not support the running of a minibus, and elders make that clear. 
As for 'true Christians' travelling as far as it takes. That is not a loving thought. I know of older brothers and sisters that cannot drive in the dark. I think that here in the UK half of every congregation is old people. So where is this love that should abound in the 'truth' ?  

There should be Kingdom Halls on every street corner, like gas stations, only more so.

You cannot economically justify having a baby ... but willy-nilly ... people DO have babies.
Some things are more important than economic justification.

Perhaps he was just tired of having her incessant screaming, smearing poop on the walls, chasing him arount' the house with a machete, poisoning his food, and microwaving the cat.

I'm using a spork from now on.  This gives me half a chance to stay sane and fit.

Does this way of thinking actually come from the 'world' ?  It seems to be a away of taking away the credibility of people.
I'm sure it's the type of thing you see in films, when someone wants to make another person feel insecure, or wants to make a person doubt themselves. 
If in fact the Governing Body are NOT inspired, then how would they actually know if someone else was ?  And i do think their attitude is passed down to the elders. 
A bit off topic but I had a funny thought.
Sometimes the Organisation is compared to Noah's Ark. However there were only EIGHT humans in that Ark and the rest were dumb animals that were controlled by those EIGHT humans.
Um how many members of the Governing Body are there ? Oh yes EIGHT.  And who in control of the Org ? Those EIGHT humans. Does make a person wonder exactly what the Governing Body thinks of all the rest in their Ark. 
 
 

Thanks @Matthew9969 for using WT magazines. This articles shows how GB want to present us, how mental illness was not started with "apostates" in recent time.
Wording "mental illness" is connect with WT Society context about result, outcome that is seen in JW members who think how they are sort of people who belongs to people known as 144000 class. 
They numbered several reasons why some JW member thinks about self as King and Priest aka part of 144000. They say:
in 1996
-after a while they acknowledged that this was an error
-an emotional response
-perhaps physical or mental strain
in 2011
-past religious beliefs
-mental or emotional imbalance 
in 2016
-mistakenly think that they are anointed
-mental or emotional problems 
It is obvious how WT Society is organization who looks on one part of members as people who have not mental and emotional balance. Perhaps GB say so, because of Jesus words how he is send to ill, sick people, and that also including physical, mental and emotional defects.
But we see how GB put this explanation on exactly one specific class or group of individuals inside organization - "anointed". On all anointed individuals who are outside of GB... or Helpers. Well, here we see how few anointed  individuals who are in position to call themselves as FDS who sharing spiritual food, decided to sending message through publications how only them are mentally, physically and emotionally in perfect health. All other are in question.  
Well, where insane people living? Inside or outside sanatorium?  

.... the problem with that is you have to have them with you.
Hmmmmmm.

If you do commit suicide, make sure you have 2 witnesses, then maybe you'll be resurrected.

All the redrawing and reshuffling of boundaries and the sell off of some Kingdom Halls and the merging of some congregations is probably because a few financial experts were finally allowed to sit down and ascertain the efficiency (or lack of) of the way Kingdom Halls were being used. They called it equalizing. When I hear brothers say that obeying the restructuring, and cooperating with moving to different halls is obeying Jehovah, (was also in a video) I can't help wondering why they don't just say it's because it saves money. Why bring Jehovah into it and make people feel like they're sinning against Him if they don't cooperate. 

He (Tom Henry) probably used "some" in his explanation because the scripture says all unrighteousness is sin.  The scriptures also show that there is a sin that incurs death and that we would not expect God to cover over. (See Hebrews 10;26) Therefore the apostle John said not to make request about that kind of sin.  That is permanent death.
(1 John 5:16, 17) 16 If anyone catches sight of his brother committing a sin that does not incur death, he will ask, and God will give life to him, yes, to those not committing sin that incurs death. There is a sin that does incur death. It is concerning that sin that I do not tell him to make request. 17 All unrighteousness is sin, and yet there is a sin that does not incur death.
(Hebrews 10:26) For if we practice sin willfully after having received the accurate knowledge of the truth, there is no longer any sacrifice for sins left,...
=====
This is what I gather about suicide or self murder from my research in the Bible itself.
(Genesis 9:6) 6 Anyone shedding man’s blood, by man will his own blood be shed, for in God’s image He made man.
 (Proverbs 28:17) 17 A man burdened with bloodguilt for taking someone’s life will keep fleeing until the grave. Let no one support him.
 Both of these remedies would be difficult to achieve for a man taking his own life. So there is a difference in taking your own life and taking someone else’s life.
So it boils down to the same thing - you have to leave it to God.
God knows whether it is forgivable or whether it is willful and wanton, disrespecting the Creator and life itself.

I thought your post made a lot of good points. We know about God's mercy but we don't want to purposely take advantage of it for selfish purposes. (Of course, we can never get into the mind of the person committing suicide to know whether they were motivated by selfishness, even if the person leaves a lucid note. We leave it to Jehovah to read hearts.)
Also, wanted to point out that Paul never used the word "some" (in case anyone would have read your words to imply that). Either way, though, I think your point is still valid. 

No new light, just the elder's opinion, and not a very good one at that. It still stands that Jehovah will be the judge as he knows the reasons and circumstance.

Thank you, i have read this already, but it isn't very recent.. My main point was to find out if the Governing Body / Writing Dept' has very recently written anything new regarding suicide. In the last 6 month maybe ? 
My personal feelings are that God, through Jesus Christ, will resurrect all those that they find worthy. And that 'worthiness' cannot be judged by any human. Thanks again.

Ask your elders about the list of decisions at the last  Annual Meeting.  Don't think anything about suicide was in that list.
 

Thank you, i have read this already, but it isn't very recent.. My main point was to find out if the Governing Body / Writing Dept' has very recently written anything new regarding suicide. In the last 6 month maybe ? 
My personal feelings are that God, through Jesus Christ, will resurrect all those that they find worthy. And that 'worthiness' cannot be judged by any human. Thanks again.

Thank you, i have read this already, but it isn't very recent.. My main point was to find out if the Governing Body / Writing Dept' has very recently written anything new regarding suicide. In the last 6 month maybe ? 
My personal feelings are that God, through Jesus Christ, will resurrect all those that they find worthy. And that 'worthiness' cannot be judged by any human. Thanks again.

First of all, i have to noticed this: WHAT sort of READERS would come to such idea to even ask such question?
Is it ADVISABLE for a C. MINISTER to give talk ...? ........ Good God!
Also, this question showed how JW's are under (influenced) general idea (of Catholic church) how suicide is consider as sin. Because God is Master of life and you have no right to end something what is given to you  (and to other people) as God's gift. Life belong to God, so He is only one who can give or take life. In such cultural-social environment, suicide is not viewed as something acceptable for member (or is in some black-grey zone).
Another thing, JW funerals talks are, in almost all cases, made in form to giving witnessing to non witness people. That is main reason for giving talk, and not so much about comforting of those who stay.     
i believe how many times, or almost always this questions are products of Bethel moves and strategy. Because, i can be sure how exist people who send some other letters/questions and such subjects not came under this section. Internet is place to ask unpleasant questions and to hear answers that is sometimes hard to accept.