b4ucuhear

It is one thing to speak frankly and honestly (rather than live in "pretend world") while also contributing to the spiritual welfare of our brothers and sisters. Some of our brothers and sisters in fact do experience some pretty bad stuff and they need validation and understanding. They won't be helped to cope by pretending it doesn't exist or a lack of transparency or even punishing them for exposing things that are clearly bad. On the other hand, it's another thing to have an agenda. An agenda to only tear down and direct people away from Jehovah's organization. That paints with too wide a brush and denies all the good that is done and can yet be done.
One conspicuous omission I see from all these cowardly nay-sayers, sniping from behind the safety of a computer screen, is: What are you offering that is better? What religion are you in that is so much better? Let's examine your beliefs publicly and see if it stands the same level of scrutiny you hold us to. While we are obedient to Christ's command to preach the good news world wide, what are you offering? Let me guess: Bingo, bake sales and bazaars...?

Unfortunately, that wasn't just true back in the '80's. I have seen the same thing and so have others - and it's not just true of NY Bethel. The trick for those of us who have lived through and seen these lying machinations is not only to stay faithful to our dedication and respect for the authority of our organization (while being more than aware of things that might destroy the faith of our brothers and sisters), but to help them to stay grounded despite the faith-testing/destroying machinations of men who have something to hide, and who will lie, plot and scheme to protect themselves. To try to help our friends have faith that overall, we are a spiritual organization, not just the political entity proud ambitious men would turn it into.We expect this behaviour in the world, but when men in authority ("angels in Jesus' right hand") act as if they are in Satan's right hand, then most would have a hard time to rationalize what they may see or even experience within the context of their faith - it's just too "out there." But prophetic warnings in Gods Word make clear that this type of stuff will happen - (not just could happen).. It's just that people think it's "negative talk" or something that "allegedly" happens to someone else until it happens to them.  
I have a lot of respect for mature, battle-hardened/wisened Christians who in a spiritual sense, are like the valiant mighty men of old who faced dangers from outside and within in defence of pure worship. Although I love also my "weaker" in faith brothers and sisters who would rather act as if these things can't/don't exist or even acknowledge it, I wouldn't want to be like that - in "pretend world." I have always wanted to know the "truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth" - even when it is uncomfortable - at least it's real and I know who/what I am dealing with. We can easily accept there will be wickedness from Satans system. Not so easy when it's from within "Jehovah's organization." But those who have this "tested quality of our faith" are a living testimony that these things are survivable, doable, and they can even maintain their joy in serving Jehovah stronger and wiser than before. 

Unfortunately, that wasn't just true back in the '80's. I have seen the same thing and so have others - and it's not just true of NY Bethel. The trick for those of us who have lived through and seen these lying machinations is not only to stay faithful to our dedication and respect for the authority of our organization (while being more than aware of things that might destroy the faith of our brothers and sisters), but to help them to stay grounded despite the faith-testing/destroying machinations of men who have something to hide, and who will lie, plot and scheme to protect themselves. To try to help our friends have faith that overall, we are a spiritual organization, not just the political entity proud ambitious men would turn it into.We expect this behaviour in the world, but when men in authority ("angels in Jesus' right hand") act as if they are in Satan's right hand, then most would have a hard time to rationalize what they may see or even experience within the context of their faith - it's just too "out there." But prophetic warnings in Gods Word make clear that this type of stuff will happen - (not just could happen).. It's just that people think it's "negative talk" or something that "allegedly" happens to someone else until it happens to them.  
I have a lot of respect for mature, battle-hardened/wisened Christians who in a spiritual sense, are like the valiant mighty men of old who faced dangers from outside and within in defence of pure worship. Although I love also my "weaker" in faith brothers and sisters who would rather act as if these things can't/don't exist or even acknowledge it, I wouldn't want to be like that - in "pretend world." I have always wanted to know the "truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth" - even when it is uncomfortable - at least it's real and I know who/what I am dealing with. We can easily accept there will be wickedness from Satans system. Not so easy when it's from within "Jehovah's organization." But those who have this "tested quality of our faith" are a living testimony that these things are survivable, doable, and they can even maintain their joy in serving Jehovah stronger and wiser than before. 

I was trying to say similar, but I think you have expressed it better. 2 Corinthians 1:4 applies here. But those who need comfort won't get it if everyone pretends it doesn't exist - and it really doesn't for most people. Who in the congregation would even believe you, or even want to? The answer is: nobody - unless they have seen and been through it themselves. Fortunately for me, I knew very strong and zealous brothers of many years who shared their experiences with me which was of great encouragement because as you correctly stated it provided "relief I wasn't going crazy."  But they wouldn't go talking about these things just to anybody in the congregation. It's too outside the realm of experience for most. We are encouraged to overlook the "imperfections" of others, which is scripturally loving and appropriate. But what we are alluding to is much more than some garden variety imperfection. These are often disfellowshipping offences and other forms of badness. 
I wouldn't think everyone reading this would believe/agree with this thread. But for those of us who have had to come to terms with some pretty hairy stuff, your expressions above ring true - spot on in fact. 

Unfortunately, that wasn't just true back in the '80's. I have seen the same thing and so have others - and it's not just true of NY Bethel. The trick for those of us who have lived through and seen these lying machinations is not only to stay faithful to our dedication and respect for the authority of our organization (while being more than aware of things that might destroy the faith of our brothers and sisters), but to help them to stay grounded despite the faith-testing/destroying machinations of men who have something to hide, and who will lie, plot and scheme to protect themselves. To try to help our friends have faith that overall, we are a spiritual organization, not just the political entity proud ambitious men would turn it into.We expect this behaviour in the world, but when men in authority ("angels in Jesus' right hand") act as if they are in Satan's right hand, then most would have a hard time to rationalize what they may see or even experience within the context of their faith - it's just too "out there." But prophetic warnings in Gods Word make clear that this type of stuff will happen - (not just could happen).. It's just that people think it's "negative talk" or something that "allegedly" happens to someone else until it happens to them.  
I have a lot of respect for mature, battle-hardened/wisened Christians who in a spiritual sense, are like the valiant mighty men of old who faced dangers from outside and within in defence of pure worship. Although I love also my "weaker" in faith brothers and sisters who would rather act as if these things can't/don't exist or even acknowledge it, I wouldn't want to be like that - in "pretend world." I have always wanted to know the "truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth" - even when it is uncomfortable - at least it's real and I know who/what I am dealing with. We can easily accept there will be wickedness from Satans system. Not so easy when it's from within "Jehovah's organization." But those who have this "tested quality of our faith" are a living testimony that these things are survivable, doable, and they can even maintain their joy in serving Jehovah stronger and wiser than before. 

It is one thing to speak frankly and honestly (rather than live in "pretend world") while also contributing to the spiritual welfare of our brothers and sisters. Some of our brothers and sisters in fact do experience some pretty bad stuff and they need validation and understanding. They won't be helped to cope by pretending it doesn't exist or a lack of transparency or even punishing them for exposing things that are clearly bad. On the other hand, it's another thing to have an agenda. An agenda to only tear down and direct people away from Jehovah's organization. That paints with too wide a brush and denies all the good that is done and can yet be done.
One conspicuous omission I see from all these cowardly nay-sayers, sniping from behind the safety of a computer screen, is: What are you offering that is better? What religion are you in that is so much better? Let's examine your beliefs publicly and see if it stands the same level of scrutiny you hold us to. While we are obedient to Christ's command to preach the good news world wide, what are you offering? Let me guess: Bingo, bake sales and bazaars...?

Unfortunately, that wasn't just true back in the '80's. I have seen the same thing and so have others - and it's not just true of NY Bethel. The trick for those of us who have lived through and seen these lying machinations is not only to stay faithful to our dedication and respect for the authority of our organization (while being more than aware of things that might destroy the faith of our brothers and sisters), but to help them to stay grounded despite the faith-testing/destroying machinations of men who have something to hide, and who will lie, plot and scheme to protect themselves. To try to help our friends have faith that overall, we are a spiritual organization, not just the political entity proud ambitious men would turn it into.We expect this behaviour in the world, but when men in authority ("angels in Jesus' right hand") act as if they are in Satan's right hand, then most would have a hard time to rationalize what they may see or even experience within the context of their faith - it's just too "out there." But prophetic warnings in Gods Word make clear that this type of stuff will happen - (not just could happen).. It's just that people think it's "negative talk" or something that "allegedly" happens to someone else until it happens to them.  
I have a lot of respect for mature, battle-hardened/wisened Christians who in a spiritual sense, are like the valiant mighty men of old who faced dangers from outside and within in defence of pure worship. Although I love also my "weaker" in faith brothers and sisters who would rather act as if these things can't/don't exist or even acknowledge it, I wouldn't want to be like that - in "pretend world." I have always wanted to know the "truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth" - even when it is uncomfortable - at least it's real and I know who/what I am dealing with. We can easily accept there will be wickedness from Satans system. Not so easy when it's from within "Jehovah's organization." But those who have this "tested quality of our faith" are a living testimony that these things are survivable, doable, and they can even maintain their joy in serving Jehovah stronger and wiser than before. 

I was trying to say similar, but I think you have expressed it better. 2 Corinthians 1:4 applies here. But those who need comfort won't get it if everyone pretends it doesn't exist - and it really doesn't for most people. Who in the congregation would even believe you, or even want to? The answer is: nobody - unless they have seen and been through it themselves. Fortunately for me, I knew very strong and zealous brothers of many years who shared their experiences with me which was of great encouragement because as you correctly stated it provided "relief I wasn't going crazy."  But they wouldn't go talking about these things just to anybody in the congregation. It's too outside the realm of experience for most. We are encouraged to overlook the "imperfections" of others, which is scripturally loving and appropriate. But what we are alluding to is much more than some garden variety imperfection. These are often disfellowshipping offences and other forms of badness. 
I wouldn't think everyone reading this would believe/agree with this thread. But for those of us who have had to come to terms with some pretty hairy stuff, your expressions above ring true - spot on in fact. 

I was trying to say similar, but I think you have expressed it better. 2 Corinthians 1:4 applies here. But those who need comfort won't get it if everyone pretends it doesn't exist - and it really doesn't for most people. Who in the congregation would even believe you, or even want to? The answer is: nobody - unless they have seen and been through it themselves. Fortunately for me, I knew very strong and zealous brothers of many years who shared their experiences with me which was of great encouragement because as you correctly stated it provided "relief I wasn't going crazy."  But they wouldn't go talking about these things just to anybody in the congregation. It's too outside the realm of experience for most. We are encouraged to overlook the "imperfections" of others, which is scripturally loving and appropriate. But what we are alluding to is much more than some garden variety imperfection. These are often disfellowshipping offences and other forms of badness. 
I wouldn't think everyone reading this would believe/agree with this thread. But for those of us who have had to come to terms with some pretty hairy stuff, your expressions above ring true - spot on in fact. 

It is one thing to speak frankly and honestly (rather than live in "pretend world") while also contributing to the spiritual welfare of our brothers and sisters. Some of our brothers and sisters in fact do experience some pretty bad stuff and they need validation and understanding. They won't be helped to cope by pretending it doesn't exist or a lack of transparency or even punishing them for exposing things that are clearly bad. On the other hand, it's another thing to have an agenda. An agenda to only tear down and direct people away from Jehovah's organization. That paints with too wide a brush and denies all the good that is done and can yet be done.
One conspicuous omission I see from all these cowardly nay-sayers, sniping from behind the safety of a computer screen, is: What are you offering that is better? What religion are you in that is so much better? Let's examine your beliefs publicly and see if it stands the same level of scrutiny you hold us to. While we are obedient to Christ's command to preach the good news world wide, what are you offering? Let me guess: Bingo, bake sales and bazaars...?

Unfortunately, that wasn't just true back in the '80's. I have seen the same thing and so have others - and it's not just true of NY Bethel. The trick for those of us who have lived through and seen these lying machinations is not only to stay faithful to our dedication and respect for the authority of our organization (while being more than aware of things that might destroy the faith of our brothers and sisters), but to help them to stay grounded despite the faith-testing/destroying machinations of men who have something to hide, and who will lie, plot and scheme to protect themselves. To try to help our friends have faith that overall, we are a spiritual organization, not just the political entity proud ambitious men would turn it into.We expect this behaviour in the world, but when men in authority ("angels in Jesus' right hand") act as if they are in Satan's right hand, then most would have a hard time to rationalize what they may see or even experience within the context of their faith - it's just too "out there." But prophetic warnings in Gods Word make clear that this type of stuff will happen - (not just could happen).. It's just that people think it's "negative talk" or something that "allegedly" happens to someone else until it happens to them.  
I have a lot of respect for mature, battle-hardened/wisened Christians who in a spiritual sense, are like the valiant mighty men of old who faced dangers from outside and within in defence of pure worship. Although I love also my "weaker" in faith brothers and sisters who would rather act as if these things can't/don't exist or even acknowledge it, I wouldn't want to be like that - in "pretend world." I have always wanted to know the "truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth" - even when it is uncomfortable - at least it's real and I know who/what I am dealing with. We can easily accept there will be wickedness from Satans system. Not so easy when it's from within "Jehovah's organization." But those who have this "tested quality of our faith" are a living testimony that these things are survivable, doable, and they can even maintain their joy in serving Jehovah stronger and wiser than before. 

My XFriend, an Elder, Pioneer and well liked in the Congregation showed this attitude to me. As a Health Counselor and Bible Student for over 60 years I tried my best to see his wrong attitudes. I saved his life once unknowingly. Yet, as you see many will manifest more so in this time of the end. Sadly, he left Jehovah was expelled. Knew the Truth over 24 years yet his attitude towards those in authority was very wrong for he said he "knew to much." Who is perfect? Yet, Jehovah is using imperfect men to fulfill his will and purpose. We live for Jehovah or we die for Jehovah. Many will come and go especially now so close to the end. Hear news? Disregard it if not Up building as we KNOW this may get worse. Let Jehovah expose those wicked as he did this man. As Christ is the Head of the Congregation we need not worry but let go, have patience and matters will be discovered and dealt with. Trust in Jehovah the God of Tender Mercies and Christ the Exemplar of our faith. Times will get worse, take your stand now! Yes, it was very hard for me with this ExFriend and ExElder. 
Jehovah rewards the faithful. If they repent and turn back Jehovah will wait. If not read the rest of 2 Peter 2. My favorite Moto is; "Have no fear, Jehovah is near." May you have Peace and Blessings from Jehovah! 
 
The Second of Peter 2:1-3, 8-22.
2 However, there also came to be false prophets among the people, as there will also be false teachers among you.These will quietly bring in destructive sects, and they will even disown the owner who bought them, bringing speedy destruction upon themselves. 2  Furthermore, many will follow their brazen conduct, and because of them the way of the truth will be spoken of abusively.     3 Also, they will greedily exploit you with counterfeit words. But their judgment, decided long ago, is not moving slowly, and their destruction is not sleeping."
 
 8 for day after day that righteous man was tormenting his righteous soul over the lawless deeds that he saw and heard while dwelling among them. 9 So, then, Jehovah knows how to rescue people of godly devotion out of trial, but to reserve unrighteous people to be destroyed on the day of judgment, 10 especially those who seek to defile the flesh of others and who despise authority. Daring and self-willed, they are not afraid to speak abusively of glorious ones, 11 whereas angels, although they are greater in strength and power, do not bring against them an accusation in abusive terms, out of respect for Jehovah. 12 But these men, like unreasoning animals that act on instinct and are born to be caught and destroyed, speak abusively about things of which they are ignorant. They will suffer destruction brought on by their own destructive course, 13  suffering harm as their reward for their own harmful course. They consider it pleasurable to indulge in luxurious living, even in the daytime. They are spots and blemishes who revel in their deceptive teachings while feasting together with you. 14 Their eyes are full of adultery and are unable to desist from sin, and they entice unstable ones.They have a heart trained in greed. They are accursed children. 15  Abandoning the straight path, they have been led astray. They have followed the path of Baʹlaam the son of Beʹor, who loved the reward of wrongdoing, 16  but was reproved for his own violation of what was right. A voiceless beast of burden speaking with a human voice hindered the prophet’s mad course. 17 These are waterless springs and mists driven by a violent storm, and the blackest darkness has been reserved for them.18 They make high-sounding statements that are empty. By appealing to the desires of the flesh and with acts of brazen conduct, they entice people who have just escaped from those who live in error. 19 While they are promising them freedom, they themselves are slaves of corruption; for if anyone is overcome by someone, he is his slave. 20 Certainly if after escaping from the defilements of the world by an accurate knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they get involved again with these very things and are overcome, their final state has become worse for them than the first. 21 It would have been better for them not to have accurately known the path of righteousness than after knowing it to turn away from the holy commandment they had received. 22 What the true proverb says has happened to them: “The dog has returned to its own vomit, and the sow that was bathed to rolling in the mire.”
How the Voice of Strangers Is Heard Today
Deceptive reasonings. The apostle Paul states: “Do not be carried away with various and strange teachings.” (Hebrews 13:9) What sort of teachings? Since they can ‘carry us away,’ it is clear that Paul refers to teachings that undermine our spiritual balance. Who are voicing such strange teachings? Paul told a group of Christian elders: “From among you yourselves men will rise and speak twisted things to draw away the disciples after themselves.” (Acts 20:30) Indeed, today as in Paul’s day, some individuals who were once part of the Christian congregation now attempt to mislead the sheep by speaking “twistedthings”—half-truths and outright lies. As the apostle Peter puts it, they use “counterfeit words”—words that resemble truth but that are actually as worthless as counterfeit money.—2 Peter 2:3.
Peter further exposes the methods of apostates by stating that they “will quietly bring in destructive sects.” (2 Peter 2:1, 3) Just as the thief in Jesus’ illustration of the sheepfold does not enter “through the door but climbs up some other place,” so apostates approach us in stealthy ways. (Galatians 2:4; Jude 4) What is their aim? Peter adds: “They will exploit you.” Indeed, no matter what apostates may say to the contrary, the real aim of intruders is “to steal and slay and destroy.” (John 10:10) Beware of such strangers!
 

So true. It's hard to imagine what kind of "spirituality" can live alongside certain kinds of sin and certain kinds of personalities.
Most people go into the various Bethel branches, at about age 19 and 20, rather naively, and usually just a few short years after their baptism and with an average of more than a year of pioneering.  The statistics favored those who were 'raised in the truth' rather than recent converts. One of the first things we were told, jokingly by Brother Couch and Brother Sydlik in the "welcome speech' is that Bethelites were divided into two groups, "Newbies" and "BAs" (those with a "Bad Attitude). Then we were reminded that this wasn't a joke by Bethelites who had already been there a year or two. The direct implication was that it didn't take long before we would all become jaded.
I went in on the cusp of a changeover from a 4-year commitment to just a 1-year commitment. Those who were serving out the last year or so of a 4-year commitment were supposed to be the worst BAs (although with the changeover, there was no stigma to a 2 or 3 year Bethelite leaving early, as there had been previously). If you went home early prior to that, it was considered the same as a dishonorable discharge from the army. And worse than that, there had just been a dismissal of 50 or more (all at one time) who had been accused of homosexuality. It was right after that that the 1-year commitment was offered, but no one wanted to leave early in the midst of that, for fear of what the congregation back home might think.
On the first day I got to Bethel, my temporary roommate stole a couple hundred dollars from me, as he was just going back home after 4 years. On my last day of Bethel, I discovered that my storage locker, unused for several years, had been broken into and my valuables had been stolen. I never thought to check my storage locker even though Brother Knorr made at least a weekly announcement of Bethelites dismissed for theft over a period of several months.
But all this was very easy to ignore, by just putting your nose to the grindstone and staying busy. As TTH reminds us, it's dirt among diamonds. I found diamonds by the dozen, and would have never focused on the dirt. And of course every diamond itself has imperfections, too. I could not have asked for better assignments at Bethel. I didn't deserve any of them, and I loved it every single day. Even those dark days of 1980 that seemed surreal, didn't change my resolve to continue to just try to be the kind of person who was like those whom I liked to be around. 
As I got a little older I realized that part of helping others stay grounded is to stop keeping everything to myself, and just admit the faults we've lived through. And I think that we can help others even by admitting the specifics (up to a point). The reason is that others who have gone through something unexpected might never guess that others have gone through something similar. It might give them a bit of relief that they are not going crazy or being singled out for mistreatment or just to know that others really can sympathize.
There is always an element of concern over the fact that some are stumbled by dirty laundry, but that's why I've mentioned before that a semi-anonymous discussion forum (for me) is a much better choice than trying to sympathize in the congregation setting. Many of those who are hurt by mistreatment from those they trusted have clearly turned to discussion forums like this one. (Actually, I saw several of that sort on a bigger discussion forum and was terrified for them that they were being eaten alive by a a lot of unruly ex-JWs, proud to call themselves "apostates.")
Rather than fight the noise on that larger forum, I ran across this one, and think, so far, that it has a fair balance, and that even ex-JW and non-JW "opposing" voices are fairly good at self-moderating here. Someday, this forum will probably no longer meet the same standards it meets now and I'll either go back to silence, or go looking around for another outlet. Many won't agree, but I think that sharing openly and honestly is a loving thing to do for those who might be looking for a sympathetic or empathetic ear. That goes for those concerned about issues of justice and issues of doctrine and healthful teaching. I think this is why the Bible reveals the flaws, even of people at the highest levels of responsibility. (Noah, Moses, Jephthah, Saul, David, Solomon, . . . Paul, Peter, James, and John).
I'm sure some are annoyed that not everyone here spends 100% of their time encouraging loyalty to all the long-standing traditions, and bureaucratic processes. Some apparently only want to encourage complete obedience to any and all suggestions from the Governing Body and apparently think anything less is some kind of apostasy. We have congregations for that kind of encouragement. We have meetings where we specifically study the current thinking of the Governing Body and support it through prepared questions and answers and reading of published material. The congregation is no place for open questioning of current doctrines and procedures.
Well put! 

I was trying to say similar, but I think you have expressed it better. 2 Corinthians 1:4 applies here. But those who need comfort won't get it if everyone pretends it doesn't exist - and it really doesn't for most people. Who in the congregation would even believe you, or even want to? The answer is: nobody - unless they have seen and been through it themselves. Fortunately for me, I knew very strong and zealous brothers of many years who shared their experiences with me which was of great encouragement because as you correctly stated it provided "relief I wasn't going crazy."  But they wouldn't go talking about these things just to anybody in the congregation. It's too outside the realm of experience for most. We are encouraged to overlook the "imperfections" of others, which is scripturally loving and appropriate. But what we are alluding to is much more than some garden variety imperfection. These are often disfellowshipping offences and other forms of badness. 
I wouldn't think everyone reading this would believe/agree with this thread. But for those of us who have had to come to terms with some pretty hairy stuff, your expressions above ring true - spot on in fact. 

I don't see what clergy penitence privileges has anything to do with what's under discussion. If a person has reasonable suspicions that a child may be in danger, or if there is evidence that the child has already been a victim, then that person can go to the police, regardless of any confession by the perpertraitor. But really, the other problem is, lack of transparency that WE  have a problem at all, regardless how small in comparison, in our own words "one molested child is one too many". 

I have to agree with you there. Just the other day a sister brought up the subject of the convention and the talk about protecting our children. She is now the third person who absolutely did not think the counsel could apply to anyone being a threat in the congregation. It didn't even cross her mind. Those very few who are aware of this problem, and those who know about the Australia Royal Commission's findings, know exactly why this particular program was included at the convention. It was a response to the problem. However, not many are actually aware of that. I have yet to see a candid admission that we do have this problem among our ranks.
That is the scary part and has been suggested by many an opposer or ex-jw. I do not think much of the public is aware of this problem, as I have yet to meet someone in the ministry who brings it up. However this could change. I think that if this becomes a problem in the ministry, and brothers start reporting it, the GB might do something about it. In the mean time, have you perhaps thought of writing a letter to them, similar in content of what you wrote here? It's possible that if they receive many letters complaining about the lack of transparency regarding this issue it might hurry things along.
P.S. We had hospitality lat month and the brother was telling us about one of his Bible studies, who left the catholic faith because of pedophilia. I thought, oh no, what's he going to do when he finds out we have a similar problem! I know one sister who left the truth because she said she left the Catholics because of this.....

Glad to see you are posting again (or maybe I havent been around much). I always enjoy your pictures, comments and offbeat humour. I don't even know where you come up with this stuff (ie X-ray head with fish floating around in it...high-healed flippers...) Always good for a smile - and some insightful comments and observations too. Was worried you were being "leaned on" by "the man"  when it seemed you had stopped posting. 

I will make the job easier by supplying #14 myself:
14.) "And the Devil who was misleading them was hurled into the lake of fire...." (Rev 20:10)
That's supposed to bother him? I believe he has a summer cottage on the Lake of Fire.

Not sure why so much time is spent on refuting something based on a questionable premise. It's like arguing whether someone stopped at a red light, when there is no traffic light there to begin with.
The idea for being tormented for all eternity in "hell" presupposes the idea that humans have an immortal soul. Do they? Because if there is no immortal soul, then there is nowhere but the common grave for them to go. (Thats where I usually start anyway when someone brings up this topic). True, some mix "soul" and "spirit" together to come up with some hybrid notion of what a human soul is; or even centuries after the fact invent the unscriptural idea of "resurrection of the body" to answer the thorny question of: "If a person (soul) never really dies, why doe the Bible refer to a resurrection - why would we even need one?
So I think a pertinent question worth asking is: Does the Bible teach that humans have a conscious immortal soul that survives the body after death that automatically floats to heaven or hell - thus making any form of torment even possible? Or does it teach that when you die, that's it - unless you are resurrected back to life?

b4ucuhear:
I find your logic and reasoning irrefutable .
The "stoplight" analogy applies to many things.
Thank you for another arrow in my quiver!

PROTECT YOUR CHILDREN FROM BAD !!!!
The organization is making a global campaign to inform OUR PARENTS of extreme vigilance towards their minor children, preventing them from being attracted to the attention of predators, their way of dressing and making up.
In no way does the slave make children guilty of the violations that are happening, even among our own.
In no way do our children DECEIVE their VIOLATORS, using provocative clothes.
The system teaches that NOTHING CAN AVOID SEXUAL ASSAULT if it is decided.
Our religion teaches that ONE OF THE POSSIBILITIES that attract sexual predators is a provocative image and this matter can be corrected immediately by the parents.

Well put and very true. Individuals who are proud, ambitious, want to be adored...do not have the humility to do that work and even when they do, everyone knows about it (whether by title or otherwise. That's where you find members of the "Secret Service.")               Thankfully we have many others - both pioneers and publishers - who are a joy to spend the days with and love being out in the ministry. . 

I have seen that too - although not across the board. Some very fine brothers who are very active in the ministry are also good speakers. But the converse is most certainly true quite often. 
We had many Bethelites assigned to our congregation (not from Brooklyn) and the ones least likely to go out in the ministry were them. (I can't speak for other congregations though and I doubt that is the experience across the board).
 But "cold bureaucrats who never wanted to go from door-to-door..." can be found all over if you are privy to behind-the-scenes activities. They may have started off well, but this "corporate ladder" mentality of wanting to be noticed and be somebody can take hold if one isn't careful. Sure, all brothers are encouraged to "reach out," but again as we are often encouraged to personally consider: What is you motive? Some of the better speakers/C.O.'s even have a "following" of brothers and sisters who will travel to a congregation to hear them speak. (As we found out when they came to ours and others). That is unhealthy no matter who you are. Often/(sadly) when brothers and sisters see a "wow" speaker of the platform at a meeting or assembly, the equate that person as being spiritual and an example. But as you and I both know, that at times couldn't be farther from the truth. You can't always judge a book by it's cover. But again, that is not my experience with most brothers and sisters on the platform - but it is often enough for sure.
I have experienced something like this although my "time" wasn't in question. We were asked when doing Bethel construction to skip our meetings and assemblies while living on site. But the congregations we belonged to had a hard time accepting that, and gave us heat over it. As far as not doing as much in the ministry when occupied in construction projects, there is at least an allowance/tolerance for pioneers who may not make their time due to said projects - even allowing for vacation time. So the time, effort and skills these brothers bring to the table is and should be valued. But that is not what I/we are referring to above. It has to do more with the attitude. After all, that attitude was also manifest early on when some left the organization, NOT WANTING to go out in the ministry. 

Well put and very true. Individuals who are proud, ambitious, want to be adored...do not have the humility to do that work and even when they do, everyone knows about it (whether by title or otherwise. That's where you find members of the "Secret Service.")               Thankfully we have many others - both pioneers and publishers - who are a joy to spend the days with and love being out in the ministry. . 

Well put and very true. Individuals who are proud, ambitious, want to be adored...do not have the humility to do that work and even when they do, everyone knows about it (whether by title or otherwise. That's where you find members of the "Secret Service.")               Thankfully we have many others - both pioneers and publishers - who are a joy to spend the days with and love being out in the ministry. .