JW Insider

21 hours ago, Lussier Denis said:

The link is infected by a virus ...
Can not read ... A +

Link worked perfectly for me.

On 4/19/2017 at 8:38 AM, Micah Ong said:

One last thing about the memorial as practiced by Jehovah's Witnesses.  It is actually a ritual that is practiced by high degree Freemasons and Satanist alike where they reject the body and blood of Jesus Christ by passing up the emblems.  Since Charles Taze Russell was a 33rd degree Freemason he would have implemented this.  I hear from eyewitnesses who were young at the time recalling accounts where partakers being of the annointed would have a secondary passover where they would pass over the emblems instead of taking them.

People should get their story straight when it comes to practicing high-degree Freemasons. Notice this "true" story:

That the most powerful Masons are actually reptilian shape shifters that drink human blood and eat human flesh.
 - That I demonstrated characteristics of someone with incredible survival instincts and that I was attempting to be the alpha male at work by dominating other men and trying to possess nearly every attractive woman in the workplace, which are reptilian characteristics.
 - That the Masonic initiation ritual I would go through would activate my reptilian DNA.
 - That the blood drinking, flesh eating orgies that I would participate in have roots in the ancient mystery religion of the Egyptians. - See more at: https://www.henrymakow.com/freemasonry.html

Charles Taze Russell was not a Freemason at all, much less a 33rd degree Freemason. No one has yet been able to offer any evidence that he was. Also, there was never a time when the 10,000 or so partakers under Russell's leadership had a secondary passover. With the large number of defectors from Russell who spoke out against him after leaving the various Bible Students associations, none of them ever mentioned such a practice. Not even any of the supposed eye-witnesses that you have heard from have ever presented any evidence. "Recalling accounts" is not evidence. [For example, I recall an account where Richard Nixon said he was innocent of any involvement in Watergate. That does not mean that I have evidence that Richard Nixon was innocent of any involvement in Watergate -- yet I really do recall the account where he actually said this himself. It's even on video.]

Under Russell, the "great crowd of other sheep" were actually of the anointed. Under Russell, the great crowd of other sheep were also of the heavenly hope.

Under Rutherford this great crowd remained exactly as they were under Russell, until the early 1930's, when they were seen as less spiritual than the 144,000. They were soon seen as persons who had squandered their hope of getting into heaven by being materialistic. After they were defined as people who would live on earth (by 1935) they were not even allowed to come to the Memorial, and they were told that they were no longer anointed. They were not even called Jehovah's witnesses. The "great multitude" would join the "Jonadab" class. The expression referring to all the persons associated with the Watch Tower was: "Jehovah's witnesses and their associates, the Jonadabs." This meant the same thing as "the anointed and the non-anointed." (Only the anointed could be called Jehovah's witnesses.)

Only when the Jonadabs were finally invited to the Memorial did there come a time when persons would be in the audience who passed up the emblems and did not partake. But at that time (in some congregations) it was just as high a percentage who partook compared with the percentage who did not. It was only over the years as the number of Jonadabs significantly outnumbered the anointed, that it appeared that the Memorial was a 'ritual' where everyone seemed to pass up the emblems.

On 4/19/2017 at 8:38 AM, Micah Ong said:

It is vitally important that we read the scriptures and see that Jesus told his followers to partake and that there would be no group that would not partake if they were to be his followers.  Careful Study of the scriptures clearly tell us that.

The other sheep that were not of this fold but would come in to be one flock that Jesus mentioned, would in context be the Gentiles of the nations.  Not two classes or groups.

I know I am being blunt and have not quoted scriptures as it late and I have had a big day but please forgive me.

But I believe it is so important for people to know the truth of God's word and to watch out for the foretold apostasy.

I would agree with your first statement. After all:

(John 6:54-58) 54 Whoever feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood has everlasting life, and I will resurrect him on the last day; 55 for my flesh is true food and my blood is true drink. 56 Whoever feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood remains in union with me, and I in union with him. 57 Just as the living Father sent me and I live because of the Father, so also the one who feeds on me will live because of me. 58 This is the bread that came down from heaven. It is not as when your forefathers ate and yet died. Whoever feeds on this bread will live forever.”

Jesus did not say that only those of a heavenly hope should partake. But we don't need to partake of anything in a physical ritual. The ritual is there as a Memorial. Any claim that we must participate only in a specific manner is the same as creating specific acts (or works) of law. But mentally we must understand that Jesus is the bread from heaven and that his blood means life for us. Whether we put the glass to our lips or add our saliva to a piece of bread and swallow it during a ritual is not what is truly important. Besides, if we hold to an earthly hope, then we would merely be confusing others who might take our participation as a declaration that we are of a heavenly hope. As JWs we have imbued the emblems with a different meaning than Jesus gave them, but we are not judged by our action with respect to physical emblems. Other humans might judge us and even be offended and think it is "unclean" to partake if we have an earthly hope. But, overall, the emblems are just "food" so it doesn't matter.

(Romans 14:14-17) 14 I know and am convinced in the Lord Jesus that nothing is unclean in itself; only where a man considers something to be unclean, to him it is unclean. 15 For if your brother is being offended because of food, you are no longer walking according to love. Do not by your food ruin that one for whom Christ died. 16 Therefore, do not let the good you do be spoken of as bad. 17 For the Kingdom of God does not mean eating and drinking,. . .

The point about two folds of sheep being all part of the same flock has been known for a long time. When Jesus said he had "other sheep" who were not of this fold, I would have to agree that he meant "Gentiles." (Even the "great crowd" in Revelation come out of all nations, while the 144,000 come out of the tribes of Israel.) Russell understood this, and several members of the Governing Body still understood it this way through the 1970's and 1980's. Some Governing Body members might still see it this way. But the understanding has been "spiritualized" so that these are spiritual Gentiles and the 144,000 are spiritual Jews. It's not an impossible doctrinal construction. In other words, even if we changed our doctrine back to claiming that the "other sheep" referred to physical Gentiles [non-Jews], and that non-Jews (like Cornelius) would be brought into the same pen after Jesus died, this doesn't mean that anything would necessarily change with respect to who physically partakes at the Memorial.

1 hour ago, jw_dallas said:

What do you mean too compliant?  And how have they been an embarrassment worldwide?

If authorities told you to stop using dozens of books, booklets, videos and tracts, and you had lots of these publications, then it would be very easy to make a mistake and accidentally bring a copy of one with you to a meeting or out in service. But the brothers at the Hall went to the trouble to put up a list of all the banned material so that there would be very few mistakes.

The brothers were so compliant that the authorities weren't able to build a case against them by catching Witnesses here and there who made a mistake. The brothers were extra compliant with the law, too compliant for the authorities to build the case they wanted against the brothers.

I don't know if you saw the videos, but they proved to be an embarrassment to the people who planted the evidence, and the fact that they are shown worldwide on jw.org makes them an embarrassment worldwide. That was one of the reasons to post the videos, to embarrass the authorities who had to cheat to create evidence against the JWs. There are at least three such incidents, and you can see video here:

https://www.jw.org/en/news/legal/by-region/russia/police-planting-evidence-video/

Just now, bruceq said:

JUDGE IS STUDYING THE VIDEO EVIDENCE!

I'm glad. I always thought that the "evidence-planting" videos should be the most important piece of evidence in the case. Shows that the JWs are being too compliant and not giving local authorities the ammunition to play out their own prejudices against the JWs.

Also, they recognize that these videos have produced an embarrassment worldwide. No matter what the outcome, the jw.org site did all JWs a favor (worldwide) by putting these videos on the site.

1 hour ago, bruceq said:

"Jehovah's Witnesses. Who are they? What do they believe? "He [It] has been recognized as an extremist for the mention of the fact that Jehovah's Witnesses do not take up arms.

This is interesting. But it is based on the idea that a religion can be declared extremist for the following types of issues, and I suppose it would fall under 'failure to fulfill their civic duty.' This brings it right back to the problem in the United States of "JWs" in 1917 (WTBTS) when the updated Espionage Act was enforced in 1918.

1 hour ago, bruceq said:

"undermining the respect for other religions," "rejection of the use of blood for medical purposes ',' failure to fulfill their civic duty."

I thought the following was potentially important.

1 hour ago, bruceq said:

Prosecutors submitted caution about criminal liability for extremism in connection with the meetings for Bible study.

The prosecutors are probably concerned about setting precedents that could be used against religions more generally. The Ministry of Justice SHOULD be just as concerned, but are obviously not thinking about the implications of this ruling about "extremism" on any ad-hoc group of Russian Orthodox believers who might want to meet and discuss a specific area of interest that arises from Bible Study. Imagine if a group of Russian Orthodox believers prints summaries of their Bible studies that highlight new things they learned that are not being highlighted in the tenets of the Russian Orthodox church. Or what if their studies lead them to start a charity to care for injured Russian veterans but then, in promoting how wonderful their charity is, they compare themselves with other religions who have ignored the opportunity to create such a useful charity. They have just undermined the respect for other religions, and made themselves extremist. The prosecutors appear that they understand how this could backfire, and the MoJ seems not to care about being so careful -- knowing, I assume, that the Russian Orthodox church will always be legally untouchable. Yet, very secular leaders in their recent past have already proved that nothing is untouchable.

@Bible Speaks I just tried creating postage from Montreal H3R 1K2 to Moscow and had no trouble for both letters or parcels through Canada Post. Also note that the message never said that they couldn't handle letters (documents) so it has no effect on the mailing of letters to Russia. 

There are several of these short videos of this type here. They are concise and useful for learning. But from the ones I've watched, there is a kind of agenda running through them that repeatedly tries to claim that the Greek alphabet was derived from the Hebrew. This particular video, above, states it explicitly.

This appears to be wrong, though. The Hebrew alphabet was derived from the Phoenician. The Greek alphabet was also derived from the Phoenician. Otherwise how could the Greek alphabet be more closely tied to the Phoenician than the Hebrew? Several of the Phoenician letters made it into the Greek alphabet but never made it into the Hebrew. 

I put this under "controversial" because I was going to tell about a "Family Night" experience that was a bit troubling. But I'm going to tell about another one that was more funny at the time, and I didn't realize how serious it was until a few months later. Here's the background:

Family Night is a kind of talent show along with some experiences that helped Bethelites get to know each other better. It was held in the local Brooklyn Heights Kingdom Hall attached to the back of the 107 Building, but it had less than 500 seats, and there were at least 3 times that many Bethelites who wanted to attend. It was very popular, and soon the "shows" were actually televised via CCTV.

There's a song that was written by a Witness many years ago that became internationally famous, sung by Frank Sinatra and Doris Day, for example. During Family Night, a small choir sang a nice rendition of the song with different words, that some might call a parody, but it wasn't meant to be a funny parody. It was "Sentimental Journey" written by Bud Homer. The lyrics can be found here: http://www.lyricsfreak.com/d/doris+day/sentimental+journey_20279019.html

The original lyrics included a stanza:

Seven, that's the time we leave, at seven
I'll be waitin' up for heaven
Countin' every mile of railroad track
That takes me back

In the Family Night version, this was changed to:

Seven, Bethel text begins at seven
To the fact'ry I'll be headin'
. . . . To serve the Lord
For his reward.

At the rehearsals, I once or twice sat only a couple seats away from Bert Schroeder. When the words were sung, either Brother Gehring or perhaps someone else on the Family Night Committee leaned over to question Schroeder (I think it was Bill G., but can't say for sure): "You think those words are alright? Doesn't sound too 'works centered?'"

Schroeder chuckled, "The words are fine. If they don't like it, let them stew!"

I had no idea who these people were who would "stew" at the words. This was before I had heard about any "apostasy" brewing. But I couldn't help thinking of a brother I worked with, in construction, just a couple years earlier, before I came to Bethel. (We set up the frames for pouring concrete basements/walls, and I also learned to do some "curb and guttering.") Now this brother was not an elder, and I always figured it was partly for his propensity to curse. But whenever I made a mistake, I'd ask if I should do something over, and his typical response was: "It's fine. If they don't like it, @#$% them!"

I left that evening rehearsal thinking that Brother Schroeder had just said the equivalent of "@#$%  them!" but had found a much nicer way of saying it than old Brother M--- back home. I wasn't even thinking about who these people were who might "stew." It was at least a year later when the two books "Commentary on the Letter of James" and "Choosing the Best Way of Life" were released, and it was only after reading those books and listening to some of the arguments over them that I finally understood the controversy.

Here's the story. Anyone recognize it?

A man marries a black woman.

People around him are not happy about it.

So God punishes one of those people by turning that person partly white. 

I feel like I rather rudely steered this conversation to one that kept veering back to a problem I had with the words "devotion to imperfect men" which was tied to "devotion to the Governing Body." That wasn't the real gist of the original thread, so I'm thinking all that part of the discussion could be moved to a new thread. If that happens, perhaps the entire February 2017 study article that was referenced could be discussed. But I won't be adding more to that particular subject here.

1 hour ago, bruceq said:

I am "devoted" to my wife that does not make me an idolater Acts 2:42..

Quite true. At first, I wondered if I should have started out with this same point about what it means to be "devoted" to something. In the original verse, the idea of devotion is just as well translated without even using the word "devotion." It could also have been properly translated: "And they continued steadfastly [proskarteréō] with the instructions of the apostles."  (Acts 2:42) or perhaps, "And they persevered  [proskarteréō] in the instructions of the apostles..."

In fact, the New World Translation does not usually use the word "devoted" when translating this word:

(Acts 1:14) With one purpose all of these were persisting [proskarteréō] in prayer, together with some women and Mary the mother of Jesus and with his brothers.

(Acts 2:46) 46 And day after day they were in constant [proskarteréō] attendance in the temple with a united purpose,. . .

(Acts 8:13) 13 Simon himself also became a believer, and after being baptized, he continued [proskarteréō] with Philip; and he was amazed at seeing the signs and great powerful works taking place.

(Colossians 4:2) 2 Persevere [proskarteréō] in prayer, remaining awake in it with thanksgiving.

But this is still a very useful point about being "devoted" to your wife, and a wife being "devoted" to her husband. You could even argue that slaves should be devoted to their masters, and children be devoted to their parents. In Acts 2:46 these same brothers we have been talking about were also "devoted" to their attendance at the temple. And in Acts 8:13, Simon, the former magician, was "devoted" to Philip. But the point about "devotion" to one's spouse is especially useful here, specifically because of the immediate context of Ephesians 5 & 6:

(Ephesians 5:21-6:5) 21 Be in subjection to one another in fear of Christ.22 Let wives be in subjection to their husbands as to the Lord, 23 because a husband is head of his wife just as the Christ is head of the congregation, he being a savior of this body. 24 In fact, as the congregation is in subjection to the Christ, wives should also be to their husbands in everything. 25 Husbands, continue loving your wives, just as the Christ also loved the congregation and gave himself up for it, . . .  28 In the same way husbands should love their wives as their own bodies. A man who loves his wife loves himself, 29 for no man ever hated his own body, but he feeds and cherishes it, just as the Christ does the congregation, 30 because we are members of his body. . . .  33 Nevertheless, each one of you must love his wife as he does himself; on the other hand, the wife should have deep respect for her husband. 6 Children, be obedient to your parents in union with the Lord, for this is righteous. . . .  5 Slaves, be obedient to your human masters,. . .

It's very true that this sense of devotion does include a kind of "subjection to the lead" of another person, just as you imply that we should be in a kind of devoted subjection and obedience to imperfect men. But notice one more verse in that same passage that I didn't highlight yet:

(Ephesians 5:21) 21 Be in subjection to one another . . .

In other words, the way in which you should be in subjection to the Governing Body and other elders, for example, is in the same way that each member of the Governing Body should be in subjection to you. That's the way it is with all fellow members of the congregation. We are in subjection to each other.

This is why, even among Jehovah's Witnesses, it should not be possible for us to think of a certain group as if they make up a group of human leaders.

(Luke 22:25-27) 25 But he said to them: “The kings of the nations lord it over them, and those having authority over them are called Benefactors. 26 You, though, are not to be that way. But let the one who is the greatest among you become as the youngest, and the one taking the lead as the one ministering. 27 For which one is greater, the one dining or the one serving? Is it not the one dining? But I am among you as the one serving.

Our "food" -- our spiritual nourishment -- is doing Jehovah's will with respect to each other; it's especially the encouragement, comfort and support we all give to one another. (John 4:34; Hebrews 10:24,25) This encouragement and spiritual food can include instruction and guidance and counsel and information from the elders, and therefore also from the Governing Body. We respect all that counsel deeply.  But we don't devote ourselves to the Governing Body, except in the same sense that the Governing Body members also devote themselves to you. There is no separate Body within the Body. They are not in the position of a husband over the congregation, and we are not in the position of a wife in the congregation. We are all a part of the body of the whole congregation. But Jesus Christ is the Leader and Head (and Husband) and the rest of us are slaves serving each other. Some are shepherds and stewards, but this does not make those ones our Leader, in any sense.

In fact, as a shepherd, every elder takes on the responsibility of being "God's steward:"

(Titus 1:7)  For as God’s steward, an overseer must be free from accusation. . .

And it is every steward's responsibility to be faithful and discreet:

(1 Corinthians 4:2) In this regard, what is expected of stewards is that they be found faithful.

(Ephesians 5:15-17) 15 So keep strict watch that how you walk is not as unwise but as wise persons . . . keep perceiving what the will of Jehovah is.

13 minutes ago, bruceq said:

Just because we follow the admonition at Acts 2:42 does not make us idolators.

That's very true. What would make us idolators is if we devoted ourselves to imperfect men. We would be idolators if we devoted ourselves to the apostles. We would be idolators if we devoted ourselves to the Governing Body. 

16 minutes ago, bruceq said:

For more info. on what we believe see the above Watchtower article. Thanks

Thanks. Most of the scriptures that I mentioned in my post are mentioned in that article.

1 hour ago, bruceq said:

I agree , I was not trying to be argumentative. Some opposers use the "imperfect men" argument about the Governing Body.

I know you weren't trying to be argumentative. If anything, it was my response that probably seemed so. But I did it because of something very subtle that should be pointed out when it happens. Here was what I responded to more precisely:

4 hours ago, bruceq said:

Jehovah and Jesus use imperfect humans to lead us. We need to obey and be fully "devoted" to them as the Israelites were to Moses.

The first sentence is absolutely true. The second sentence is a form of idolatry. We are not devoted to the Governing Body, just as the early Christians were not devoted to the apostles.

Moses was the leader of the Israelites. The Israelites could be "devoted" to Moses as the representative of Jehovah's authority. And by being the representative Lawgiver he was even the master of their "faith." The Governing Body should not be the leaders of Jehovah's people. Jesus, as Lawgiver, gave an entirely new commandment that replaced the Mosaic system.

(Matthew 23:10) 10 Neither be called leaders, for your Leader is one, the Christ.

This doesn't mean we don't need persons who can lead by their example and their faith, but we don't want any to be called leaders, masters, governors. The congregation can have many teachers, but we don't look to just one place for those teachers, unless it's Jesus Christ.

(2 Corinthians 1:23, 24) . . .. 24 Not that we are the masters over your faith, but we are fellow workers for your joy, for it is by your faith that you are standing.

Our faith and salvation must depend on no man, because in the Christian congregation, it must run directly from Jesus to our own heart and mouth.

(Romans 10:5-10) 5 For Moses writes about the righteousness that is by the Law: “The man who does these things will live by means of them.” 6 But the righteousness resulting from faith says: “Do not say in your heart, ‘Who will ascend into heaven?’ that is, to bring Christ down, 7 or, ‘Who will descend into the abyss?’ that is, to bring Christ up from the dead.” 8 But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your own mouth and in your own heart”; that is, “the word” of faith, which we are preaching. 9 For if you publicly declare with your mouth that Jesus is Lord, and exercise faith in your heart that God raised him up from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one exercises faith for righteousness, but with the mouth one makes public declaration for salvation.

(1 Corinthians 10:2-4) 2 and all got baptized into Moses by means of the cloud and of the sea, 3 and all ate the same spiritual food 4 and all drank the same spiritual drink. For they used to drink from the spiritual rock that followed them, and that rock meant the Christ.

(Hebrews 3:4-6) . . .. 5 Now Moses was faithful as an attendant in all the house of that One as a testimony of the things that were to be spoken afterward, 6 but Christ was faithful as a son over God’s house. We are His house if, indeed, we hold on firmly to our freeness of speech and the hope of which we boast down to the end.

Moses was not a pattern for the Governing Body, or even the apostles. Moses was a pattern for Christ, where under a new covenant, there was no need for any other go-betweens. There is no tent set up by man. There is no need for each one to teach his fellow citizen.

(Hebrews 8:1-11) 8 Now this is the main point of what we are saying: We have such a high priest as this, and he has sat down at the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens, 2 a minister of the holy place and of the true tent, which Jehovah set up, and not man. . . .  6 But now Jesus has obtained a more excellent ministry because he is also the mediator of a correspondingly better covenant, which has been legally established on better promises. . . . : “‘Look! The days are coming,’ says Jehovah, ‘when I will make with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah a new covenant. . . . 10 “‘For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days,’ says Jehovah. ‘I will put my laws in their mind, and in their hearts I will write them. And I will become their God, and they will become my people. 11 “‘And they will no longer teach each one his fellow citizen and each one his brother, saying: “Know Jehovah!” For they will all know me, from the least to the greatest of them.

1 hour ago, bruceq said:

Acts 2:42. aka "devoted to the teaching of the Governing Body", that is "those taking the lead" Greek for "taking the lead is "governing ones".}

The ones taking the lead could include the elders making up a governing body. But it's every elder in every congregation who takes the lead by speaking to us, encouraging us, and showing faith and conduct that we can imitate -- and so every elder, by that definition, is therefore a "governing one."

(Hebrews 13:7, 17) . . .Remember those who are taking the lead among you, who have spoken the word of God to you, and as you contemplate how their conduct turns out, imitate their faith. . . . Be obedient to those who are taking the lead among you and be submissive, for they are keeping watch over you

(1 Peter 5:1-4) . . .I make this appeal to the elders among you: 2 Shepherd the flock of God under your care, serving as overseers, not under compulsion, but willingly before God; not for love of dishonest gain, but eagerly; 3 not lording it over those who are God’s inheritance, but becoming examples to the flock. 4 And when the chief shepherd has been made manifest, you will receive the unfading crown of glory.

It appears that elders do not take the lead by governing, because that is a form of "lording it over" (same as the words for "master over" as in "we are not masters over your faith.") Elders, and therefore every governing body member and member of any council of elders, leads by being examples to the flock. We submit to the counsel of elders when their advice is based on Christian experience, faith and conduct. We follow their example of hard work, and the loving and humble way in which they preside, and their manner of teaching.

40 minutes ago, bruceq said:

If anyone has any doubt that  we should be "devoted" to imperfect men then just read the Bible : " ⁴²  And they continued devoting themselves to the teaching of the apostles" Acts 2 :42. 

I have no doubt whatsoever that we should NOT be devoted to imperfect men. The early congregation during the time of apostles was NOT supposed to be devoted to the apostles, only to the teachings of the apostles. The teachings of the apostles formed the foundation of the first century congregation. This is the very reason we need no apostles today, and it is why we have no apostles in the congregation today.

(1 Corinthians 12:28, 29) 28 And God has assigned the respective ones in the congregation: first, apostles; second, prophets; third, teachers; then powerful works; then gifts of healings; helpful services; abilities to direct; different tongues. 29 Not all are apostles, are they?. . .

(Ephesians 2:19, 20) 19 So you are no longer strangers and foreigners, but you are fellow citizens of the holy ones and are members of the household of God, 20 and you have been built up on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, while Christ Jesus himself is the foundation cornerstone.

(Ephesians 3:5) In other generations this secret was not made known to the sons of men as it has now been revealed to his holy apostles and prophets by spirit,

(John 16:13) 13 However, when that one comes, the spirit of the truth, he will guide you into all the truth, for he will not speak of his own initiative, but what he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things to come.

So one could also say that there are no new teachings, or new truths, to be learned after the time of the apostles. This does not mean that we should not have older men and teachers in the congregation, but they should be here to help lead the work, and encourage faithfulness, not make new teachings. New circumstances arise and therefore good teachers will help us make better application of the existing teachings in the Bible. But the Governing Body does NOT need to make new teachings, they are basically asking to be "keepers" or "guardians" of the doctrine that already exists in the Bible.

If they come up with something new, such as an application of a Biblical prophecy to our own time, then this is a suggestion that we can keep in mind and watch for and hope for. These men have collectively studied the Bible much longer than any of us have, and they have access to a range of information about various situations from around the world that the rest of us do not have. But if they give us guidance for the end times, it's a suggestion about how they may believe the prophecy will likely play out. But we should never be "devoted" to their teaching. (Much less "devoted" to them.)

Remember, too, what happened when a Council at Jerusalem (including apostles) decided to offer Bible-based counsel to all the congregations who had been affected by a serious error that members of the Jerusalem congregation had been perpetrating. (Prejudice against the uncircumcised Gentile converts to Christianity.)  Paul accepted this counsel, and even though apostles were involved in promoting it, Paul treated it as only limited. For example, they said to:

(Acts 15:29) 29 to keep abstaining from things sacrificed to idols (εἰδωλοθύτων ),. . .

But Paul, evidently realizing the limited scope of this counsel, used the exact same word explaining the limited nature of their counsel:

(1 Corinthians 8:4,8) Now concerning the eating of food offered to idols ( εἰδωλοθύτων), we know that an idol is nothing. . . we are no worse off if we do not eat, nor better off if we eat.

Paul said it best when referring to the very men who made up that Jerusalem council:

(Galatians 2:4-12) 4 But that matter came up because of the false brothers brought in quietly, who slipped in to spy on the freedom we enjoy in union with Christ Jesus, so that they might completely enslave us; 5 we did not yield in submission to them, no, not for a moment, so that the truth of the good news might continue with you. 6 But regarding those who seemed to be important—whatever they were makes no difference to me, for God does not go by a man’s outward appearance—those highly regarded men imparted nothing new to me. 7 . . .  9 and when they recognized the undeserved kindness that was given me, James and Ceʹphas and John, the ones who seemed to be pillars, gave Barʹna·bas and me the right hand of fellowship, . . . . 11 However, when Ceʹphas came to Antioch, I resisted him face-to-face, because he was clearly in the wrong. 12 For before certain men from James arrived, he used to eat with people of the nations; but when they arrived, he stopped doing this and separated himself, fearing those of the circumcised class.

And getting back to the idea of being "devoted to imperfect men" Paul had already explained his reasons for disagreeing with such a notion, in the wider context of Galatians 1 and 2, while minimizing any rumors about his contact with or dependence on or even "devotion to the teaching" of the apostles who came before him:

(Galatians 1:10) . . . Is it, in fact, men I am now trying to persuade or God? Or am I trying to please men? If I were still pleasing men, I would not be Christ’s slave. . . .  I did not immediately consult with any human; 17 nor did I go up to Jerusalem to those who were apostles before I was, but I went to Arabia . . . Then three years later I went up to Jerusalem to visit Ceʹphas, and I stayed with him for 15 days. 19 But I did not see any of the other apostles, only James the brother of the Lord. 20 Now regarding the things I am writing you, I assure you before God that I am not lying. . . . Then after 14 years I again went up to Jerusalem with Barʹna·bas, also taking Titus along with me. 2 I went up as a result of a revelation, and I presented to them the good news that I am preaching among the nations. This was done privately, however, before the men who were highly regarded, . . . But regarding those who seemed to be important—whatever they were makes no difference to me, for God does not go by a man’s outward appearance—those highly regarded men imparted nothing new to me. . . . James and Ceʹphas and John, the ones who seemed to be pillars . . . .

So, to what extent are we supposed learn from Paul's example and teaching?

(1 Corinthians 4:1-17) . . .A man should regard us as attendants of Christ and stewards of God’s sacred secrets.  In this regard, what is expected of stewards is that they be found faithful.  Now to me it is of very little importance to be examined by you or by a human tribunal.. . .  Therefore, do not judge anything before the due time, until the Lord comes. He will bring the secret things of darkness to light and make known the intentions of the hearts, and then each one will receive his praise from God. . . .“Do not go beyond the things that are written,” so that you may not be puffed up with pride, favoring one against the other.  For who makes you different from another? . . . Have you begun ruling as kings without us? I really wish that you had begun ruling as kings, so that we also might rule with you as kings.  For it seems to me that God has put us the apostles last on exhibition as men condemned to death, . . . For though you may have 10,000 guardians in Christ, you certainly do not have many fathers; for in Christ Jesus, I have become your father through the good news. 16 I urge you, therefore, become imitators of me. 17 That is why I am sending Timothy to you, because he is my beloved and faithful child in the Lord. He will remind you of my methods in connection with Christ Jesus, just as I am teaching everywhere in every congregation.

Note that Paul considered himself a faithful and discreet steward, or guardian, but that there would be no need for any human tribunal to judge anyone "until the Lord comes." There was no need to go beyond the things written. Therefore, there was no need to favor any persons over other persons. No one should begin governing before the time came. While there may be 10,000 faithful and discreet stewards, or guardians, of the apostle's teaching, it was the apostle's teaching itself that provided the foundation to the congreation -- and thus Paul was like a father, a source of their learning from his teaching. In the future, even if Paul or another apostle never visited them again, people like Timothy would not teach anything new, but remind them of Paul's methods. Anyone who tries to "govern" or "rule" in advance -- in the area of doctrine -- is going beyond the things written.

Obviously, you read these verses a little differently. I think we can apply these verses and still be very appreciative of the counsel, encouragement and guidance given by the Governing Body.

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@Eoin Joyce Sorry about that. I meant "....Jesus does NOT speak out against bankers."

Best I've ever done is $300, two free meals, and an extra night in Paris.

I've also had to pass up an offer of $500 due to timing and prior appointments.

1 hour ago, bruceq said:

Somehow I do not believe that the events in Russia with Jehovah's Witnesses, and Syria and Afghanistan and the South China Sea and now North Korea all happening at the same time are all just a coincidence.

Not that it matters, but I'd like to add my own opinion that a third world war is just as UNlikely today as it was 10 years ago and 20 years ago. (It is also just as likely.) Things can change again quickly, of course, and a potential stand-off due to USA-Korea "posturing" raised a red flag last night, but it likely not going to flare up again for a while.

We are probably supposed to get all worked up whenever the general climate of the world becomes more on edge and it probably sounds wrong not to go along with the idea that the whole world could blow up at any minute. I don't think the Biblical end of this system has much to do with the kinds of multi-pronged tensions that the world continues to face. The end can happen at any time, with or without any specific cry for "peace and security" and with or without any specific interpretation of Bible prophecy that we have anticipated.

50 minutes ago, Ann O'Maly said:

It's cartoonish hyperbole.

Good! Because, for a minute there, I thought I recognized one of our local elders, there on the right.

23 minutes ago, Ann O'Maly said:

 

That's a bit extreme, don't you think?

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/jehovah-s-witnesses-supreme-court-jurisdiction-judgement-application-appeal-wall-1.4069481

"One of the three appeal court judges dissented — arguing that congregations are private organizations akin to bridge clubs, whose decisions 'are not enforceable promises and have limited, if any, impact outside its small circle.' "

@Witness

OK. You made me look. I wanted to see if "my company" was listed there, too. And it was.

By "my company," I mean the company I retired from after 27 years. I've even attended the GSAM Summits in New York and elsewhere, not to pay attention to them, but just to provide a presence so our name could be among the list of hundreds of other financial institutions. We paid for the summit and sometimes sent substitutes rather than the fund asset managers, just because we needed our name listed among many other companies, and because our company managed over a trillion dollars in assets from some of those same companies on the list, especially their retirement accounts for example.

But I didn't really think I'd see the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society on the list. At the time, I suppose they were already planning to centralize all the excess funds from all the congregations up to their various branch headquarters, and then, in some cases, move all the excess branch money up to the central New York headquarters. In addition they were and are still in the midst of between 1 and 2 billion dollars worth of real estate sales online.

I know that it might look bad to some, but this is not an "unrighteous" thing. Remember that Jesus also said in an illustration:

(Matthew 25:27) 27 Well, then, you should have deposited my money with the bankers, and on my coming I would have received it back with interest.

I know he wasn't talking about real money in the final application of the illustration, but in principle, Jesus does speak out against bankers.

16 hours ago, JW Insider said:

My love to you & to all the dear ones with whom you are now associating - Bro. F. et al.

In the letter it almost looks like Russell is referring to a Brother "Fetal." What I'm sure he means is that both of them know a brother in or around London whose name starts with "F" (probably a leading Pilgrim, Colporteur, speaker, or brother who has been been organizing Bible Students in London). 19th-century writing used this practice of reducing a person's name to an initial a lot more often than we do today. The Watch Tower publications still use this practice now and then, based on very similar reasons:

*** w87 8/1 p. 25 A Young One Praises Jehovah ***
His mother asked him: “What do you want to be when you grow up?” The boy . . . replied: “I want to become a special pioneer like Brother F——.”

*** w54 8/1 p. 460 Last Stop—British Guiana ***
To be told “I’m not interested” or some other positive refusal is a very rare occurrence in house-to-house witnessing. You are more likely to hear, as a brother did after the convention from a new Bible study interest: “I understand that in your organization they call you Brother H——, so may I call you Brother H——?”

The other expression "et al" just means "and others." So that basically this last sentence probably means that Russell is sending love to Henninges and all the dear ones he will now be associating with including Brother F and others. (I have no idea who Brother "F" might have been.)

20 minutes ago, Anna said:

Not sure what you mean by that because to my knowledge there isn't a Liverpool in London.

Bad use of (parentheses). "Liverpool (for London)" is what I meant.

The PSL Johnson story is quite interesting. He had worked with Russell, too. In fact PSL Johnson was the one who tried to keep Russell from starting the "New Covenant" apostasy, so it wasn't the first time he had been involved in controversial problems. Henninges was loyal, but his wife had been involved in controversial problems, and his wife's brother had died "under Russell's roof" years earlier.

9 hours ago, Nicole said:

I don't understand that handwriting, looks like a physician's prescription to me

Thanks @Queen Esther for posting this.

Here's what it looks like it says to me:

                                                                                       March 21, 0 [1900]
Dear Brother,
       Just a word of greetings to accompany lists I am now sending - not knowing what use you might have for them before reaching London. I have written you more at length by type-writer not yet ready.
       Glad to know of your safe arrival and glad to hope that you are still well & that the Lord's blessing attends your efforts to know his name & to bless his flock.
       My love to you & to all the dear ones with whom you are now associating - Bro. F. et al.
                          Yours in our dear Redeemer
                          C. T. Russell

It would appear, therefore, to be a letter to Brother Henninges, who Russell had just sent to London and who had just arrived at Liverpool (for London) in March 1900. He was probably making use of lists of potential properties to use as a warehouse for publications. It would be the beginning of the first branch in London, also opened in 1900. Brother Henninges found a suitable warehouse on April 23, 1900.

http://ibsaproperty.com/

For some modern history of IBSA. Some very nice London properties for sale.

The Watchtower has shown that "paradise" can refer to heaven, future on earth, and even a spiritual "condition" on earth since 1919.

The last one, of course, is the third meaning of "paradise" which is the spiritual condition into which "a united theocratic society" has been brought into since 1919, per the quotes below which discuss whether the "New Heavens and a New Earth" of Isaiah are already here.

*** w83 3/15 pp. 24-25 “Be Joyful Forever” ***
“New Heavens and a New Earth”
. . . However, let us now examine Isaiah 65:17-19. Here the prophecy refers to Jehovah’s creating something new. Therefore, this “Jerusalem” must be the “New Jerusalem” that is now brought forth as “the daughter of Zion,” betrothed to the Bridegroom-King, Jesus Christ. (Isaiah 62:11) Jehovah says of this “bride”: “Here I am creating Jerusalem a cause for joyfulness and her people a cause for exultation.” Great is the joy of this heavenly “bride” in being brought to her full membership of 144,000, and in seeing also God’s creating of “a new earth”—a united theocratic society among mankind.—Revelation 21:1-5.
. . .
14 Logically, therefore, it is with regard to “the bride, the Lamb’s wife,” brought with Christ, her bridegroom, into the governmental “new heavens,” that Jehovah says: “For here I am creating Jerusalem a cause for joyfulness and her people a cause for exultation.” (Isaiah 65:18) But how does the “new earth” enter into this joy?
“A New Earth” Rejoices
15 It is not only in the heavens but also right here upon this earth that Jehovah has brought forth “a cause for exultation.” For he has laid the foundations of “a new earth,” a godly society among humans that will expand until, in due course, it fills the entire globe, to Jehovah’s praise. (Isaiah 11:9) It was in the year 1919 that Jehovah caused his wifely “Jerusalem above” to bring forth a “land”—a most prosperous estate—into which he ushered the remaining ones of his spiritual Israel on earth. (Isaiah 66:8, 10, 22) This “land” has proved to be a spiritual paradise, and it is here that Jehovah’s people have been assembled as the nucleus of the “new earth.” There has been no need to wait until after the final tribulation to enter that spiritual paradise. It is already here!
16 Now that Jehovah’s people have been brought into this fruitful “land,” the grand prophecy of Isaiah chapter 62, relating to Zion, “the Jerusalem above,” has been fulfilled.

The Isaiah's Prophecy book goes into the 1919 date more explicitly, but even the image of getting along with cobras, and lions and lambs getting along are worked into this view.

*** w83 10/1 pp. 4-7 Can You Enjoy a Paradise Now? ***
Can You Enjoy a Paradise Now?
A PARADISE exists on earth today. It is extending farther and farther and is being enjoyed by millions of people. You, too, can be a part of it. Is this some idealistic dream? Not at all, for we are not speaking about a natural, earthly paradise but a spiritual one.
“What do you mean by a spiritual paradise?” you ask. Put simply: An organization of Christians who have made over their personalities to conform to God’s requirements and who are united in his true worship may be said to be in a spiritual paradise.
Where does the Bible give indication of a wonderful spiritual situation like this? What evidence is there that such a condition exists today?
The Wolf With the Lamb
There are a number of Bible prophecies that describe conditions that call to mind a paradise. A delightful description of such a paradise is found at Isaiah 11:6-9, which reads as follows:
“The wolf will actually reside for a while with the male lamb, and with the kid the leopard itself will lie down, and the calf and the maned young lion and the well-fed animal all together; and a mere little boy will be leader over them. And the cow and the bear themselves will feed; together their young ones will lie down. And even the lion will eat straw just like the bull. And the sucking child will certainly play upon the hole of the cobra; and upon the light aperture of a poisonous snake will a weaned child actually put his own hand. They will not do any harm or cause any ruin in all my holy mountain; because the earth will certainly be filled with the knowledge of Jehovah as the waters are covering the very sea.”
Just imagine how pleasant it would be to live in tranquil surroundings like those described here, with total peace existing in such a marvelous way! This would restore the Paradise conditions that existed in the garden of Eden when animals and humans lived in that garden in perfect harmony. (Genesis 1:30; 2:8, 9, 19, 20) True Christians eagerly look forward to enjoying these grand blessings on an earth-wide scale in the future under the rule of the Messianic King, Jesus Christ. His rulership is described in Isaiah 11:1-5, the verses immediately preceding the ones quoted above. But are these sure-to-be-realized future blessings under the Kingdom rule the only fulfillment of Isaiah’s words?
No, this prophecy might also be said to portray a transformation of human personalities. In what way? Answers 18th-century Bible scholar Matthew Henry: “Men of the most fierce and furious dispositions, who used to bite and devour all about them, shall have their temper so strangely altered . . . that they shall live in love even with the weakest, and such as formerly they would have made an easy prey of.”
And another Bible scholar, Joseph Benson, wrote during the last century: “Men of fierce, cruel, and ungovernable dispositions shall be so transformed by the preaching of the gospel, and by the grace of Christ, that they shall become most humble, gentle, and tractable, and shall no more vex and persecute those meek and poor ones, mentioned [in] verse 4.”
Imagine that! Humans discarding former aggressive traits and putting on, instead, personalities marked by peacefulness and love! Not that such persons lose their identity. Isaiah does not say that the wolf becomes a lamb, but, rather, that its disposition changes so that it dwells peacefully with the lamb.
Similarly, in keeping with Isaiah’s words, humans with beastlike traits—who perhaps killed, exploited or otherwise victimized their fellowman—make over their personalities, getting along with other people who are peacefully disposed like the lamb. When such a situation comes to exist among people, the grand consequences may be spoken of as a spiritual paradise. But are Isaiah’s words really being fulfilled today?
A Spiritual Paradise—When?
A corresponding prophecy in the book of Isaiah helps us to locate the time when this marvelous spiritual condition begins to be realized. We read at Isaiah 2:2-4:
“It must occur in the final part of the days that the mountain of the house of Jehovah will become firmly established above the top of the mountains, and it will certainly be lifted up above the hills; and to it all the nations must stream. . . . And they will have to beat their swords into plowshares and their spears into pruning shears. Nation will not lift up sword against nation, neither will they learn war anymore.”
Notice that a similar transformation is described—people becoming peacefully disposed, ‘beating swords into plowshares.’ When would this happen? “In the final part of the days,” answers the Bible prophecy. As has been shown many times in The Watchtower, this system of things has been in the last days since the year 1914. Therefore, we must now be living in the time when Isaiah 11:6-9 is having an application. A grand spiritual situation must now exist! ‘But where?’ you ask.
Taming the Personality
The taming of personalities, as shown by Isaiah’s prophecy, is being repeated many times over among sincere persons who, upon learning Bible truth, have ‘made their minds over’ and ‘put on a new personality.’ (Romans 12:2; Ephesians 4:23, 24) Consider the following example:
David is a big, brawny young man who grew up on a farm in Minnesota, in the United States.. . . Yet this formerly violent young man did not retaliate! He just walked away. What a remarkable change in personality! This “wolf” is now getting along peacefully with “lambs,” serving as an elder and as a full-time minister in the congregation.
. . .
The above experiences can be multiplied over and over again in the 45,000 congregations of Jehovah’s Witnesses worldwide. . . .
But it is not that Jehovah’s Witnesses take the credit for achieving the condition pointed to at Isaiah 11:6-9. No, there is only one force in the universe that can cause people to make such drastic changes in their disposition. That force is God’s holy spirit. (Galatians 5:22, 23) . . .
Why not learn more about paradise? See why Jehovah’s Witnesses enjoy such comparative peace, contentment, happiness and unity—things you no doubt readily associate with paradise. Learn how you, too, can enjoy such a paradise right now!

The view that Isaiah is now being fulfilled is not intended to negate the view that it refers to future paradise, too.