Witness

TrueTom:
You really, Really,  REALLY!  (or as Elmer Fudd woud say "weawwy, Weawwy, WEAWWY!) NEED TO IMPROVE YOUR READING COMPREHENSION SKILLS!
You have "successfully" managed 100% of the time to misunderstand EVERYTHING I have ever stated. EVER.
ALWAYS
100% OF THE TIME!
I mention that I was run through the mill (paraphrased) by an Elder for not providing my wife a phone, when I was too poor to have a phone ( by the way, this was in 1972 or thereabouts, when the only thing that existed was rotary dial phones ... later as things improved, I got a car mobile phone, as big as a suitcase in the trunk, and a console in front of the front seat, but it too was a dial phone with a rotary dial...) and this is what you got out of it ....
"  ... If JTR conducted himself as bombastically in person as he does online, the elders were probably on him repeatedly. They might have counseled him about something quite serious and a cell phone was mentioned in passing or as an example, and he chooses to remember getting chewed out over a cell phone." .
I was struggling to keep a woman with Cystic Fibrosis alive, and until she ran off with my best friend that we both grew up with, an ex-Bethelite, and a Pioneer, I did a pretty good job at it.   He was "Brother Watchtower" and I was the worn out schlub with the bills, and no patience for idiocy.
You have no IDEA, not the slightest clue who I really am ... but what I post here IS who I really am.  Why not?  I have never begged for my life, been close to death several dozen times ... and my tone should ... SHOULD have indicated to you that I don't give a rat's ass what ANYBODY, except Jehovah God, and my wife thinks of me.  And yeas, the Elders are on my case CONTINUALLY ...the ones I have not scared off.
If they want to ask me anything .. I am as helpful as I can be .. IF .. they put it in writing, and it is signed by the Body of Elders.  I learned THAT one the hard, Hard, HARD way, (... in such matters I was a VERY slow learner ...) .
I do have a moral obligation to tell the Truth to the Brotherhood.
I have no moral obligation to teach them reading comprehension skills, logic and reasoning ability ... they can get it the HARD way, like I did in over 50 years experience ,.. by getting the tests first ... and the lessons, afterwards.
Nothing sharpens a person's perceptions like getting beat up.
IRON SHARPENS IRON
SOFT SOAP SHARPENS NOTHING.
.
 
 

.
This continuous, never-ending global controversy has been going on since the 1960's, that I am aware of personally, and even before, when Judge Rutherford PERSONALLY forbade beards among Jehovah's witnesses, with the possible exception of post-menopausel Sisters .... and the Society has never definitively stated ANYTHING. 
With my usual lack of humor I present the Draft Copy of the December 2016 issue of the Watchtower which showed a Brother shaving on the cover ... it was changed before being distributed, because the Brothers responsible for the VERY GOOD and accurate article ... disappeared mysteriously.
After you save the file to your hard drive, from the TOOL BAR, be sure to set your ADOBE PDF reader under VIEW to "Reading Mode" and under ZOOM,  "Fit Page" to read it.
Dec 2016 Watchtower draft article .pdf
.
 

I completely agree with you and your thinking, but is that what has been done thus far? I mean, to proclaim something as dogmatic then to reverse oneself over blood,blood fractions, the resurrection of Adan and Eve, when the "faithful and discreet slave" was appointed over whatnot.  
Can it really be tested? I mean, in the examples above, if you disagree with certain things the "infallible" gb says, what happens to you? Lets say you don't agree with their blood stance? You need it and take it, what happens to you? you didn't agree then and you don't now......I guess you are just not a jw, right? Disfellowshipped, shuned, etc.  if you do not adhere to what the "slave" says, then you are an outsider.....even though they admit not being perfect in their interpretation of scripture. that's not testing.....that's tyranny. 

I believe this only makes sense from a human perspective.
 
Is Jesus flawed? Is he not Truth? “I am the Way, the Truth, the Life” John 14:6
If he is Truth, would anything coming from Christ be flawed or half-truth, or imperfect, or misleading? All that Jesus has, and is, comes from God.
“I and the Father are one.” John 10:30
 
Is God flawed?
 
“He is the Rock, his works are perfect,
and all his ways are just.
A faithful God who does no wrong,
upright and just is he.” Deut 32:4
 
“Every good and perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of the heavenly lights, who does not change like shifting shadows.” James 1:17
 
The scriptures give us the answer; men make excuses to cover the motives behind their actions.
 
“For I know this, that after my departure SAVAGE WOLVES WILL COME IN AMONG YOU, not sparing the flock.”
We can see that these appear among the congregations, AND ARE ANOINTED ONES as verse 30 shows:
Also FROM AMONG YOURSELVES men will rise up, speaking perverse things, TO DRAW AWAY THE DISCIPLES AFTER THEMSELVES. Therefore watch, and remember that for three years I did not cease to warn everyone night and day with tears.” Acts 20:29-31
 
As Witnesses try to juggle with the above two conflicting statements, 2 Cor 11:3,4 sheds light on where JWs place their devotion, which undoubtedly is the GB and the organization.
 
“But I am afraid that just as Eve was deceived by the serpent’s cunning, your minds may somehow be led astray from your sincere and pure devotion to Christ. 
For if someone comes to you and preaches a Jesus other than the Jesus we preached, or if you receive a different spirit from the Spirit you received, or a different gospel from the one you accepted, you put up with it easily enough."
 
By the GB stating that Jesus didn’t promise perfect spiritual food, they are preaching a Jesus other than the Jesus preached by the apostles, thus drawing away, those who accept the GB’s flawed teaching, to follow “after themselves”.
 
Jehovah’s Witnesses, why do you put up with it?  Rely on the scriptures, Anna, not on man's excuses. Isa 2:22
 
The rest of John 14:6 – “No one comes to the Father except through me.”
 
WOLVES IN SHEEP'S COVERING: http://4womaninthewilderness.blogspot.com/…/wolves-in-sheep…

There is a genuine humility expressed through the desire to serve the Father with one’s heart, mind and soul; and there is a lowly fear from oppression by those who threaten any to stand up to the GB’s teachings.  Also, it is easy to hear and accept that remaining in the organization will bring “security”, and will bring one “peace of mind”. 1 Thess 5:1-3 Could that be interpreted as pride?  Certainly, even the most humble appearing person could harbor a prideful view by choosing a sense of security offered by a fortress built by men.  How does that challenge one’s faith?

The challenge to one’s faith is through a full submission to God and one’s Master, Jesus Christ; God, who is our only fortress. Ps 18:2 (Dan 11:38) Anointed ones who choose to remain in the organization are either fearful or prideful – both require a selfish disposition and displays one’s lack of love for Christ, who bought them “at a price”.

 “You were bought at a price; do not become slaves of men.”  1 Cor 7:23

So, yes, I have a “problem” that my brothers and sisters in Christ have chosen what men say over scripture.  The GB has miserably failed to teach of the love among members of the Body of Christ. John 13:34,35 They easily disfellowship (“kill”) those who question their actions.  1 John 3:10,12; Rev 13:15 

Because of the continual wariness made concerning one’s anointing within Watchtower pages, many out of fear, no longer ‘partake’ at the Memorial.  This is oppression, Anna, by a “wicked slave” who beats his fellow slaves – not literally, but through emotional abuse and lies.  Matt 24:48-51

“Feeding many at the hands of a few”.  This is such catchy man-made phrase, and I expected it to be brought up.

When Jesus told his disciples to “feed my sheep, it was to the foundation of the Temple, and they were few in number.   When Pentacost happened, many more joined, in fact this “temple” building has been going on since the apostles.  Each priest is to “feed my sheep.” 

Eph 2:19-22 – “Now, therefore, you are no longer strangers and foreigners, but fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God,  having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ Himself being the chief cornerstone,  in whom the whole building, being fitted together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord,  in whom you also are being built together for a dwelling place of God in the Spirit.”

All who comprise this Temple are a “dwelling place of God in the Spirit”.  All have the ability, whether they know it or not, to to provide his people with instruction and spiritual direction as the 2002 Wt brings out.  In ancient Israel, this is how God’s priesthood served the people, interceding on their behalf, as well as teaching.   Mal 2:7; Deut. 24:8; 33:10; 2 Chron 35:3; Neh 8:7

Since the early temple was a “copy and a shadow” of the heavenly, would their role to serve and teach be any different today with Christ as our High Priest?  Heb 8:5

 “Now you are the body of Christ, and members individually.  And God has appointed these in the church: first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, administrations, varieties of tongues.  Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Are all workers of miracles? Do all have gifts of healings? Do all speak with tongues? Do all interpret?  But earnestly desire the best (greater) gifts. And yet I show you a more excellent way.”  1 Cor 12:27-29

“And He Himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, and some pastors and teachers, for the equipping of the saints for the work of ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ” Eph 4:11,12

All anointed ones are to provide spiritual food as they are blessed by Holy Spirit through their entire oneness in Christ.  Among the Body, the anointing alone gives knowledge, yet even more so when the Body is a whole.

“But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and you know all things. I have not written to you because you do not know the truth, but because you know it, and that no lie is of the truth.” 1 John 2:20

So, why are so many anointed ones becoming squeamish within the organization?  And why are there those who speak up to defend their God in the face of an elder body, like myself?  If God’s spirit is within each anointed heart, those who choose to listen to the Helper, will realize ‘the truth’. John 14:26 Either they act upon it, or choose to remain hidden.

“But the anointing which you have received from Him abides in you, and you do not need that anyone teach you; but as the same anointing teaches you concerning all things, and is true, and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you will abide in Him.” 1 John 2:27

John also speaks of those who will deceive anointed ones, a deception that can destroy this relationship with Christ and the Father  –

“Therefore let that abide in you which you heard from the beginning. If what you heard from the beginning abides in you, you also will abide in the Son and in the Father.” 1 John 2:

 “These things I have written to you concerning those who try to deceive you.” 1 John 2:26

Obviously, within the organization, it is quite impossible for the Body of Christ to come together.  Truly, they are scattered among ‘nations’. 

 Thus says the Lord God: “When I have gathered the house of Israel from the peoples among whom they are scattered, and am hallowed in them in the sight of the Gentiles, then they will dwell in their own land which I gave to My servant Jacob.”  Ezek 28:25

Why, then, is there a Watchtower organization where anointed ones reside?

“And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie” 2 Thess 2:11 “The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders”  2 Thess 2:9

As 1 John 2:26 said, there would be those who will deceive the anointed ones.

Christ’s Temple priests are supplanted by an elder body that has “set itself up” within God’s Temple, trampling them into submission.  Dan 8:11; 2 Thess 2:3,4; Ezek 44:6,8; 2 Chron 13:9; Mark 13:14; 1 Cor 3:16

It is an “operation of error” coming through a “false prophet”, a fallen star (anointed one) - and  based on lies and delusion.  Rev 13:11,15; 19:20; 8:10,11; 9:1-3,10; 12:15; 16:13,14; 1 Tim 4:1; Gen 3:15

Anointed ones are to speak as one in truth - in Christ.  Truth is pure, and based on scripture, not based on man’s desire of dominance.  John 13:14-17

“We demolish arguments and every pretension that sets itself up against the knowledge of God, and we take captive every thought to make it obedient to Christ.”  2 Cor 10:5


"Operation of Error"
 
http://4womaninthewilderness.blogspot.com/2014/06/operation-of-error.html

 

 

 

Firstly, sorry for meshing John 14:26 with Dan 8:23-25   The option to edit seems to disappears once a post has been around awhile. 

The Watchtower consistently presents both truth and lies to the sheep, then reinforces the lie.

Compare:

From the Watchtower 02/8/1 pp. 9-14

“Who make up this royal priesthood today? The apostle Peter answers that question in his first inspired letter. To anointed members of the body of Christ, Peter wrote: “You are ‘a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for special possession, that you should declare abroad the excellencies’ of the one that called you out of darkness into his wonderful light.” (1 Peter 2:9) From these words it is clear that, as a group, the anointed footstep followers of Jesus make up this “royal priesthood,” which Peter also called “a holy nation.” THEY constitute the channel that Jehovah uses to provide his people with instruction and spiritual direction.—Matthew 24:45-47.

Are those words put in practice? 

“ Jesus has appointed the ‘faithful slave’ to be the only channel for dispensing spiritual food.” w16 November pp. 14-18 

So which is it?  All or just a few who are the channel Jesus uses?  Obviously, it is believed to be the latter.

Many, many anointed ones have written letters to the GB expressing their understanding of scripture.  The GB trash these letters, refusing to recognize “the channel that Jehovah uses to provide his people with instruction and spiritual direction”  At the consent of the GB, many are disfellowshipped by the Body of Elders for disagreeing with the GB’s direction. Rev 13:15

The only way to receive spiritual food from Christ is through Holy Spirit, as part of the vine.
John 15:4,5 - "Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in Me. “I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing."
Wouldn’t this necessitate receiving more Holy Spirit to understand Christ’s direction?  Can you imagine that if the Body of Christ was working together, complete in Christ as a finished Temple, how blessed all God’s people would be with understanding? Rev 22:1-3

This will occur, when the Kingdom arrives.  For now, many do have spiritual understanding, but not under a hard-hearted leadership that refuses to recognize the necessity of God’s Temple. Rev 3:20; Mark 11:24; Rev 11:2; Luke 21:24; Isa 1:12  In the organization, since there is no unity within the Body of Christ, and the GB refuses to acknowledge their own brothers in Christ as part of the true vine, the GB will continue to err, out of the hardness of their heart.  Acts 7:51; Jer 7:23-26  Without Christ, without Holy Spirit directing them, they can do nothing.
 
 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

isnt that Jesus' actual words and command? why wouldn't you want to follow Jesus and what He said? 
 
why not? Does this limit our prayers to only this? No, but it does give us a starting point for those who are just learning. Again, why not, this was Jesus' words and command? 

then why is it even mentioned and considered in the baptismal questions? Why must one "agree" to that particular question at all? 

They certainly hid their membership as an NGO of the UN from me and thousands more.

Wt 1966 10/1 pp 603-4 "We do not dedicate ourselves to a religion, nor to a man, nor to an organization. No, we dedicate ourselves to the Supreme Sovereign of the Universe, our Creator, Jehovah God himself. This makes dedication a very personal relationship between us and Jehovah." 

Even though this quote is in harmony with your words, is it true? 

Jehovah’s Witnesses say they are “dedicated” to doing God’s will, which includes every necessary item on the list of running an organization.  This is their dedication; without such dedication, salvation apparently cannot be achieved as the below statement clarifies:

"Bible students need to get acquainted with the organization of the “one flock” Jesus spoke about at John 10:16. They must appreciate that identifying themselves with Jehovah’s organization is essential to their salvation. (Rev. 7:9, 10, 15) Therefore, we should start directing our Bible students to the organization as soon as a Bible study is established." KM 11/’90 p 1 

For Anna also:
"A Christian, therefore, cannot be baptized in the name of the one actually doing the immersing or in the name of any man, nor in the name of any organization, but in the name of the Father, the Son and the holy spirit." Watchtower 1955 Jul 1 p.411

Yet, this is exactly what they do.

Unless you are there at each baptism to warn people NOT to dedicate themselves to an earthly organization, when they agree to accept the identifying mark as a Jehovah’s Witness, they will; and in doing so, are committing idolatry.  This is jeopardizing the salvation of millions; not building a congregation up, but tearing it down.  The organization becomes the idol necessary to receive salvation.

Dedication is a commitment of faith, a trust in something.

One valuable lesson we learn is that we need to trust God’s organization. bt chap. 13 pp. 101-107

“But those who trust in idols, who say to images, 'You are our gods,' will be turned back in utter shame” Isa 42:17

“The God who made the world and everything in it, being Lord of heaven and earth, does not live in temples made by man nor is he served by human hands, as though he needed anything, since he himself gives to all mankind life and breath and everything.”  Acts 17;24,25

The need of legal protection for an organization, foregoes one’s ability to commit themselves whole souled to God and Christ. 

We are to be no part of the world just as Christ was no part of the world.  John 15:19

Mark of the Beast  http://4womaninthewilderness.blogspot.com/2013/05/mark-of-beast.html

 

 

 

I appreciate both of your comments – Eoin Joyce and JW Insider.  I can surmise that both of you have within your heart, a desire to help those in need.

Eion, In the situation with the woman I had mentioned, there were a few members who came to her aid.  If they were to have “taken the lead” in organizing a charity drive for her, the elders would have squashed such an action since their initial decision had already been made – a judgment of unworthiness, because of the father’s failure at obtaining work and providing for his family. With a few of us doing what we could considering our own family circumstances, this family still lived in a tent for almost a year, until the father was able to get work, save, and find suitable housing, which he eventually did.  This happened in California. 

I feel that perhaps you need to get out more, Eoin, although you mentioned you have been in more than one congregation.  There are several parts of the country that live in poverty, and this country I am speaking of, is the U.S.  Have you seen the chart that I am attaching from Pew Research?

 And after seeing this, surely all of us can magnify this frightful reality of poverty that exists in the organization, to other countries, and where other congregations have been formed. 

The opulence of Warwick could feed many.  I would hope that the scriptures posted earlier were acknowledged. If we don’t hear their impact, to whom are we listening to?

JW Insider, you appear to be somewhat of a rogue within the organization, a fish who on occasion, swims against the current, but then turns quickly back around.   I feel you endeavor to detach the congregation from the organization, but we both know this can’t happen.

While I see you grasp the proper mindset in serving God, unless we break free of the concept that the Watchtower is “Jehovah’s organization”, which is the greatest form of idolatry against God; as you say, the “perfect” congregation remains unreachable.

Although 1 Corinthians 12:14-13:1; Matt 7:20-23; 25:34-40  can be applied to all in the congregation in a sense, these scriptures specifically refer to the anointed ones. 

Paul, part of the foundation of the Body of Christ, was speaking to the Chosen ones who were part of that Body.  Today, we may not see apostles, but we see anointed ones, who are also part of Christ’s Body. Matt 16:18; Eph 2:20; 1 Pet 2:5,9; Rom 12:1; Eph 2:21,22; 1 Cor 3:16,17

They have become so obscured through Watchtower admonitions to remain anonymous, that they are forgotten.

 As far as prophets - “‘In the last days, God says, I will pour out my Spirit on all people. Your sons and daughters will prophesy, your young men will see visions, your old men will dream dreams.”  Acts 2:17

And I will appoint my two witnesses, and they will prophesy for 1,260 days, clothed in sackcloth.” Rev 11:3

If we both agree that this Body is not perfect, how will it reach the point of perfection?  Certainly, not under any influence of a GB that rules over them, or obedience to elders who do not allow each anointed individual to proclaim Christ as their Head, and their only judge. Matt 24:48; 24:15; Dan 9:27; Rom 14:4,10   God’s anointed ones must shun any form of idolatry; ironically when they do so in the organization, they are then shunned. 

Matt 7:20-23 is also related to the teachings of anointed ones, (John 21:17; Mal 2:7; Heb 13:15) that each one of us must scrutinize.  Matt 25:34-40, which is recognizing these “little ones”, is impossible to do under required obedience to false shepherds.  Luke 17:2; Matt 23:13

They are each, a member of the Body of Christ, ‘Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did it to one of the least of these my brothers, you did it to me.’

Do you see?  In the organization, all of this is impossible since a theocratic authority rules. The road to  perfection begins for each Chosen one when leaving the teachings of bad fruit, oppression, “trampling”, and turning directly to Christ.  It is then that they find other brothers in Christ -  those who are also members of the Body.  This is where love is nurtured, through the blessing of Holy Spirit. In Christ's light, is where the Temple/sanctuary will be restored and finished – outside of “earthly things” which equates to idolatry. Phil 3:19; Isa 58; Zech 4:7

2 Thess 2:1-12


 

 

 

The organization often uses the scriptures from 1 Cor 16 and 2 Cor 8 to appeal for us to make contributions to the world wide work. However, as you read these verses in context the contributions that were collected were for the material needs of fellow Christians who were undergoing poverty and famine. I am in no doubt that many of our fellow Christians in this world would welcome material assistance, especially in some of the poorer countries. Instead millions are spent on making the organizations headquarters into a palatial residence not to mention the millions that have already been paid out in settlements regarding sexual abuse cases !! I strongly feel that this is an abuse of those scriptures, making them say what the writer and ultimately the divine author did not intend. Agree or disagree ?

You know Praeceptor, I was unaware that there were other marked areas on this forum beside the Examining the Daily Text, that are especially under Queen Esther, and where only certain responses are allowed.  If she had sent me a note as she did earlier about commenting on the Daily Text, this would have been greatly appreciated. 

I am sorry that resorting to your crude manner of informing me was an acceptable solution to both you, and Queen Esther, when sending a private note would have been well respected.  

 

Really? JWs' 'biblical truths' change all the time. How can you be sure that what JWs pronounce as biblical truth today won't be pronounced as biblical falsehood tomorrow?

what exactly do they publish? 

Who is the cornerstone in Isaiah 28:16 and Psalm 118:22?
What does it mean to be the cornerstone? 
 
 

Thank you, Melinda.
At least in this one, reference to one's intellect is still intact.
It is a very beautiful song. 

Yes, I have heard Stephen Lett use this scripture in his rather long presentation on the woes of the organization needing contributions in May, 2015.  
“We in no way want to be categorized with other organization, religious or otherwise that coerce their supporters to donate.“
Song 50 is proof that coercion can be quite subtle. 
The entire chapter of Proverbs 3 is about wisdom – the remembrance of God’s laws, writing them on the tablet of the heart and not trusting in our own understanding, which takes the power and discernment of the mind. (Deut 6:5)
Our intellect is our strength in perceiving, understanding, and reasoning on God’s laws when we set our minds on the spirit of Christ, walking in truth. Ps 86:11; 3 John 1:4 In order to serve God fully, we adopt the mind of Christ, placing his laws before us. 1 Cor 2:16; Heb 10:16; 1 Pet 4:1
 If Prov 3:9 was referring to literal possessions, firstfruits out of our own pocket, when the entire chapter speaks of obtaining wisdom that brings life, how do we discern the words following Prov 3:9, that say:
Happy is the man who finds wisdom,
And the man who gains understanding;
 For her proceeds are better than the profits of silver,
And her gain than fine gold.
 She is more precious than rubies,
And all the things you may desire cannot compare with her.
Length of days is in her right hand,
In her left hand riches and honor.   Her ways are ways of pleasantness,
And all her paths are peace.
 She is a tree of life to those who take hold of her,
And happy are all who retain her. Prov 3:13-18
I doubt you believe that by offering monetary and material possessions to the organization, that your literal storehouse on this earth will be filled and your literal vat with new wine. Joel 2:24; 3:13
“Consider the ravens, for they neither sow nor reap, which have neither storehouse nor barn; and God feeds them. Of how much more value are you than the birds?”  Luke 12:24
“But seek first his kingdom and his righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well.”  Matt 6:33
Matt 6:20,21 - “Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moths and vermin destroy, and where thieves break in and steal. But store up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where moths and vermin do not destroy, and where thieves do not break in and steal.”
If one’s treasure is the organization, where one’s heart lies; then yes, one will give materially to it.  Rev 9:20; James 5:3  Storing up treasures in heaven is the taking in of wisdom from the tree of life, Jesus Christ.  Rev 3:17,18 ; Prov 25:11
As the words in Prov 3:9 are spiritual, signifying the blessings of the Kingdom, (Isa 55:1-5) so is the term “firstfruits”. 
Jer 2:3 - Israel was holiness to the Lord, The firstfruits of His increase. All that devour him will offend;
Disaster will come upon them,” says the Lord.’”
James 1:18 -  Of His own will He brought us forth by the word of truth, that we might be a kind of firstfruits of His creatures.
1 Cor 15:20-26 -  “But now Christ is risen from the dead, and has become the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep.  For since by man came death, by Man also came the resurrection of the dead.  For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive.  But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ’s at His coming.  Then comes the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God the Father, when He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power.25 For He must reign till He has put all enemies under His feet.  The last enemy that will be destroyed is death”
John 1:13 - who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
These are the anointed ones, who follow Christ closely by offering up their lives in the same way as Christ.
Rev 14:4,5 -  “ These are the ones who were not defiled with women, for they are virgins. These are the ones who follow the Lamb wherever He goes. These were redeemed from among men, being firstfruits to God and to the Lamb. And in their mouth was found no deceit, for they are without fault before the throne of God.” 
This offering to God of firstfruits under the New Covenant produces both seed and the bread of “wisdom” to others.  John 12:24,25; Rom 6:5,3,4; 1 Cor 15:36-38; 2 Cor 9:10 Hos 10:12  
They are the first of the harvest, with more “children” of God to follow.  1 Tim 2:3,4; 4:10; John 5:24; 4:36; Matt 10:40,41; 1 John 2:2; John 3:16; Acts 26:18; 20:32; Col 1:6,10; Rom 8:17 
Since Christ came to the earth, and our worship made to God is through our whole spiritual heart, spiritual soul, and spiritual mind, material contributions specified as “firstfruits”, to an earthly organization are contradictory to Christ’s teachings.
2 Cor 2:17 - Unlike so many, we do not peddle the word of God for profit. On the contrary, in Christ we speak before God with sincerity, as those sent from God.
1 Cor 2:6 - We do, however, speak a message of wisdom among the mature, but not the wisdom of this age or of the rulers of this age, who are coming to nothing.
Godliness cannot be bought with material possessions in any form. 
Rom 8:5-7 - For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit.  For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.  Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be.
It may seem a little thing, Eoin Joyce, by picking away at this discrepancy, but by eliminating the phrase in the song, “take my mind that I may serve, Fully, Lord, without reserve” and inserting “take my silver and my gold, Nothing, Lord, would I withhold”, the carnal mind takes precedence over the spiritual, as your teachers, the GB, have proven.  The spiritual food we receive from an anointed one should reflect whole souled, the words of Christ. Matt 12:33
1 Tim 6:3-5 - “If anyone teaches otherwise and does not consent to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, (Matt 22:37) and to the doctrine which accords with godliness, he is proud, knowing nothing, but is obsessed with disputes and arguments over words, from which come envy, strife, reviling, evil suspicions, useless wranglings of men of corrupt minds and destitute of the truth, who suppose that godliness is a means of gain. From such withdraw yourself.”
If one serves Christ and sees his neighbor in need, we give directly to them; our possessions are not lost within a hierarchy that chooses where it goes.  The organization is materially rich, while thousands of its members live at or below the poverty line. 
 
 Dishonest Gain
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

Yes, I have heard Stephen Lett use this scripture in his rather long presentation on the woes of the organization needing contributions in May, 2015.  
“We in no way want to be categorized with other organization, religious or otherwise that coerce their supporters to donate.“
Song 50 is proof that coercion can be quite subtle. 
The entire chapter of Proverbs 3 is about wisdom – the remembrance of God’s laws, writing them on the tablet of the heart and not trusting in our own understanding, which takes the power and discernment of the mind. (Deut 6:5)
Our intellect is our strength in perceiving, understanding, and reasoning on God’s laws when we set our minds on the spirit of Christ, walking in truth. Ps 86:11; 3 John 1:4 In order to serve God fully, we adopt the mind of Christ, placing his laws before us. 1 Cor 2:16; Heb 10:16; 1 Pet 4:1
 If Prov 3:9 was referring to literal possessions, firstfruits out of our own pocket, when the entire chapter speaks of obtaining wisdom that brings life, how do we discern the words following Prov 3:9, that say:
Happy is the man who finds wisdom,
And the man who gains understanding;
 For her proceeds are better than the profits of silver,
And her gain than fine gold.
 She is more precious than rubies,
And all the things you may desire cannot compare with her.
Length of days is in her right hand,
In her left hand riches and honor.   Her ways are ways of pleasantness,
And all her paths are peace.
 She is a tree of life to those who take hold of her,
And happy are all who retain her. Prov 3:13-18
I doubt you believe that by offering monetary and material possessions to the organization, that your literal storehouse on this earth will be filled and your literal vat with new wine. Joel 2:24; 3:13
“Consider the ravens, for they neither sow nor reap, which have neither storehouse nor barn; and God feeds them. Of how much more value are you than the birds?”  Luke 12:24
“But seek first his kingdom and his righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well.”  Matt 6:33
Matt 6:20,21 - “Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moths and vermin destroy, and where thieves break in and steal. But store up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where moths and vermin do not destroy, and where thieves do not break in and steal.”
If one’s treasure is the organization, where one’s heart lies; then yes, one will give materially to it.  Rev 9:20; James 5:3  Storing up treasures in heaven is the taking in of wisdom from the tree of life, Jesus Christ.  Rev 3:17,18 ; Prov 25:11
As the words in Prov 3:9 are spiritual, signifying the blessings of the Kingdom, (Isa 55:1-5) so is the term “firstfruits”. 
Jer 2:3 - Israel was holiness to the Lord, The firstfruits of His increase. All that devour him will offend;
Disaster will come upon them,” says the Lord.’”
James 1:18 -  Of His own will He brought us forth by the word of truth, that we might be a kind of firstfruits of His creatures.
1 Cor 15:20-26 -  “But now Christ is risen from the dead, and has become the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep.  For since by man came death, by Man also came the resurrection of the dead.  For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive.  But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ’s at His coming.  Then comes the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God the Father, when He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power.25 For He must reign till He has put all enemies under His feet.  The last enemy that will be destroyed is death”
John 1:13 - who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
These are the anointed ones, who follow Christ closely by offering up their lives in the same way as Christ.
Rev 14:4,5 -  “ These are the ones who were not defiled with women, for they are virgins. These are the ones who follow the Lamb wherever He goes. These were redeemed from among men, being firstfruits to God and to the Lamb. And in their mouth was found no deceit, for they are without fault before the throne of God.” 
This offering to God of firstfruits under the New Covenant produces both seed and the bread of “wisdom” to others.  John 12:24,25; Rom 6:5,3,4; 1 Cor 15:36-38; 2 Cor 9:10 Hos 10:12  
They are the first of the harvest, with more “children” of God to follow.  1 Tim 2:3,4; 4:10; John 5:24; 4:36; Matt 10:40,41; 1 John 2:2; John 3:16; Acts 26:18; 20:32; Col 1:6,10; Rom 8:17 
Since Christ came to the earth, and our worship made to God is through our whole spiritual heart, spiritual soul, and spiritual mind, material contributions specified as “firstfruits”, to an earthly organization are contradictory to Christ’s teachings.
2 Cor 2:17 - Unlike so many, we do not peddle the word of God for profit. On the contrary, in Christ we speak before God with sincerity, as those sent from God.
1 Cor 2:6 - We do, however, speak a message of wisdom among the mature, but not the wisdom of this age or of the rulers of this age, who are coming to nothing.
Godliness cannot be bought with material possessions in any form. 
Rom 8:5-7 - For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit.  For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.  Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be.
It may seem a little thing, Eoin Joyce, by picking away at this discrepancy, but by eliminating the phrase in the song, “take my mind that I may serve, Fully, Lord, without reserve” and inserting “take my silver and my gold, Nothing, Lord, would I withhold”, the carnal mind takes precedence over the spiritual, as your teachers, the GB, have proven.  The spiritual food we receive from an anointed one should reflect whole souled, the words of Christ. Matt 12:33
1 Tim 6:3-5 - “If anyone teaches otherwise and does not consent to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, (Matt 22:37) and to the doctrine which accords with godliness, he is proud, knowing nothing, but is obsessed with disputes and arguments over words, from which come envy, strife, reviling, evil suspicions, useless wranglings of men of corrupt minds and destitute of the truth, who suppose that godliness is a means of gain. From such withdraw yourself.”
If one serves Christ and sees his neighbor in need, we give directly to them; our possessions are not lost within a hierarchy that chooses where it goes.  The organization is materially rich, while thousands of its members live at or below the poverty line. 
 
 Dishonest Gain
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

I read this recently in a Christian book catalog and wanted to share it here:
Grace -- More than we deserve, Greater than we imagine.

If you noticed the WT publications and THEIR interpretation, then you can clearly see what I am talking about. I don't need to convince you of anything. You can bury your head in the sand and ignore it, but the fact of the matter is that the society is doing exactly what they have preached is wrong. It is not a matter of which cross, or who's meaning of it is. It is the fact that the logo has been plastered not only on buildings, but shirts, pins and the like to the point that it is a symbol that is an object of intense devotion.

it is worship of the ORG.  plain and simple. even under the Organizations own definition. 

I see that you'd rather discuss this portion of my comment than the context of my statement.
 
Reasoning book:
"Cross

Definition: The device on which Jesus Christ was executed is referred to by most of Christendom as a cross. The expression is drawn from the Latin crux.
What were the historical origins of Christendom’s cross?"
 
God's Kindgom Rules! Page 103:
Should Christians Use the Cross?
12 For many years, the Bible Students viewed the cross
as an acceptable symbol of Christianity.
Further in the God's Kingdom Rules! book on page 104, 
"Yet, at first, the Bible
Students saw no objection to what they thought were appropriate
uses of the cross. For example, they proudly wore
a cross-and-crown pin as an identifying badge."
Is this not going on today with the new logo? I see it displayed and up for sale on pins and socks, bags and shirts. 

This logo is tied to the organization as a cross is to Christians? 
Interesting subject really, i mean when one sees a person wearing a cross around their neck, it is assumed that they "worship" it. Isn't that true? But now with this logo the same is not applied? 
------Reasoning from the scriptures------
Is veneration of the cross a Scriptural practice?

1 Cor. 10:14: “My beloved ones, flee from idolatry.” (An idol is an image or symbol that is an object of intense devotion, veneration, or worship.)

I did understand what you said, it is the Greek to the English that I am hoping to understand. English is my native language, not Greek.  Thus obeying those who “rule over you”, must be understood differently than, “obey God as ruler rather than men”, wouldn’t you think? Acts 5:29  It is this “fine connotation” that must be understood – who we obey and how, which I have earlier explained.
 
 
 
 
I don’t believe I did dismiss Gamaliel’s words, since I stated they were true; the connotation can't be used as a crutch to “wait on Jehovah”.  We can't sit back and wait to see what happens to those who have "taken the lead", men at fault and under the guise of God's priesthood, and anointed ones acting as prophets, yet claiming to be uninspired; but we ourselves are to struggle to get in through the "narrow door" of truth. This is out of love, faith and respect for not only God's righteous standards, but for His Son's.  Those faithful ones who were appointed by God give us a clear understanding of this. 
I repeat:  “Since God is unchanging, he certainly wouldn’t change to justify the Watchtower if it has transgressed his decrees.  When it came to transgressions made against God’s Temple, he let the people know about it, and does so today.  Rev 11:2; Eze 44:6-9; 2 Chron 23:6; 1 Cor 3:16,17; Dan 11:31; 8:11; Matt 24:15,16; Mark 13:14”
And from the words given by God to His prophet:
Thus says the Lord of hosts,
“Do not listen to the words of the prophets who are prophesying to you.
They are leading you into futility;
They speak a vision of their own imagination,
Not from the mouth of the Lord.
 “They keep saying to those who despise Me,
‘The Lord has said, “You will have peace”’;
And as for everyone who walks in the stubbornness of his own heart,
They say, ‘Calamity will not come upon you.’
 “But who has stood in the council of the Lord,
That he should see and hear His word?
Who has given heed to His word and listened?
 “Behold, the storm of the Lord has gone forth in wrath,
Even a whirling tempest;
It will swirl down on the head of the wicked.
 “The anger of the Lord will not turn back
Until He has performed and carried out the purposes of His heart;
In the last days you will clearly understand it.
“I did not send these prophets,
But they ran.
I did not speak to them,
But they prophesied.
“But if they had stood in My council,
Then they would have announced My words to My people,
And would have turned them back from their evil way
And from the evil of their deeds.
“Am I a God who is near,” declares the Lord,
“And not a God far off?
“Can a man hide himself in hiding places
So I do not see him?” declares the Lord.
“Do I not fill the heavens and the earth?” declares the Lord.
“I have heard what the prophets have said who prophesy falsely in My name, saying, ‘I had a dream, I had a dream!’ 
How long? Is there anything in the hearts of the prophets who prophesy falsehood, even these prophets of the deception of their own heart,  who intend to make My people forget My name by their dreams which they relate to one another, just as their fathers forgot My name because of Baal?
 The prophet who has a dream may relate his dream, but let him who has My word speak My word in truth. What does straw have in common with grain?” declares the Lord. 
“Is not My word like fire?” declares the Lord, “and like a hammer which shatters a rock?  Therefore behold, I am against the prophets,” declares the Lord, “who steal My words from each other. 31 Behold, I am against the prophets,” declares the Lord, “who use their tongues and declare, ‘The Lord declares.’
 Behold, I am against those who have prophesied false dreams,” declares the Lord, “and related them and led My people astray by their falsehoods and reckless boasting; yet I did not send them or command them, nor do they furnish this people the slightest benefit,” declares the Lord.
“Now when this people or the prophet or a priest asks you saying, ‘What is the oracle of the Lord?’ then you shall say to them, ‘What oracle?’ The Lord declares, ‘I will abandon you.’ 
Then as for the prophet or the priest or the people who say, ‘The oracle of the Lord,’ I will bring punishment upon that man and his household. 
Thus will each of you say to his neighbor and to his brother, ‘What has the Lord answered?’ or, ‘What has the Lord spoken?’ 
For you will no longer remember the oracle of the Lord, because every man’s own word will become the oracle, and you have perverted the words of the living God, the Lord of hosts, our God. 
Thus you will say to that prophet, ‘What has the Lord answered you?’ and, ‘What has the Lord spoken?’
For if you say, ‘The oracle of the Lord!’ surely thus says the Lord, ‘Because you said this word, “The oracle of the Lord!” I have also sent to you, saying, “You shall not say, ‘The oracle of the Lord!’”’
Therefore behold, I will surely forget you and cast you away from My presence, along with the city which I gave you and your fathers. 
I will put an everlasting reproach on you and an everlasting humiliation which will not be forgotten.” Jer 23:16-40
If God does not tolerate false prophesy, and the leading of His sheep down a crooked road of changing doctrine, why would we; especially if we proclaim our love for Him and His Son?  Isa 59:8
Good day to you, sir.