Jump to content
The World News Media

"Grace" vs. "Undeserved Kindness"


Jack Ryan
 Share

Recommended Posts


  • Views 665
  • Replies 7
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

First definition for "grace" given by Merriam-Webster is: unmerited divine assistance given humans for their regeneration or sanctification so it would appear not.

"Amazing undeserved kindness, how sweet the sound......" Just doesn't work, does it.

Works better than this one " We praise Thee, Blessed Trinity. With the Angels' sacred hymn,  "

  • Member

No difference. Sometimes the use of different term is helpful because when so many people use the same term, that original term can lose its meaning over time. Also, there are other common meanings of the word "grace" that can refer to a certain elegance of style (or similar ideas) and this could tend to produce the wrong connotation. The term "undeserved kindness" makes us think about the true meaning. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...
  • Member
On 9/18/2016 at 3:49 PM, Jay Witness said:

JW's use the term "undeserved kindness" while the rest of the christian world generally uses the term "grace".

Is there a difference?

I read this recently in a Christian book catalog and wanted to share it here:

Grace -- More than we deserve, Greater than we imagine.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Member
On 19/09/2016 at 6:49 AM, Jay Witness said:

JW's use the term "undeserved kindness" while the rest of the christian world generally uses the term "grace".

Is there a difference?

 

It is difficult to be simplistic when answering your question because the word, especially in the hands of Paul's epistolary injunctions, has been invested with a nobility that is not seen among other words that connect with biblical salvation. Indeed, were we to remove this word from the NT, there would be no Christianity. We need not indulge in a detailed word study of this term, since the Watchtower itself has seen no need to do so, but suffice it to say that:

1The original Greek word is χαρις - charis - and it occurs 155 times in the New Testament

2. Because of its recurrent usage in various contexts, there is no single way in which we can translate the term

3. Indeed the RNWT translates it 15 different ways [among them: Favour- Lu 1:30, Gracious - Lu 4:22, Undeserved Favour - 1 Peter 3:7 etc]

4. Every translation is compelled to do the same thing. My own Bible of choice - The NASV - translates the word twelve separate ways.

The reason for this multiplicity of translations is because the original word - χαρις - meant, from the fifth century BC, anything that affords "joy, pleasure, delight" from whence various meanings developed, including grace [as in poise] favour, gratitude,  thankfulness, and kindness, among others.

While it is true that many of these meanings in non-biblical literature are found in the NT, it is only when we are confronted with the way Paul wields this majestic word, that we enter into a world endowed with utterly indescribable  gravitas and splendour. He uses it no less that 107 times [69% of the time] very often to define in human terms that which is indefinable. When you confront this word as powered by the Holy Spirit, which was in Paul, you realize that you  are gazing into the very chasm of infinity, because Paul uses this word for our very God, and the Saviour, Himself.

Now to answer your question:

What did John mean when he used the word twice at Jo 1:16::

"We all received from his fullness, even undeserved kindness upon undeserved kindness"

Apart from an unfortunate woodenness of expression, is the RNWT, the best way to translate this verse? Although it it is certainly not wrong, I believe it is not.

First of ll, it can give a misleading impression, that the word, in Christian terminology, has something  to do with being "undeserved". Reading Paul, we can't help but believe that it is not that we are undeserving of God's kindness, but that we simply do not merit it in the first place. We can never earn God's χαρις, because if we could, χαρις would no longer be χαρις.[Ro 11:6] Thus it is through this enduring quality of Divine favour that that which is unmerited is  conveyed to believers.

I feel "unmerited favour", if one is to "open" the word "Grace", is better. I would prefer, however, to dignify "Grace" with a Christian immortality, as others have done. It is the single best way to have a word-for-word alternative for the Greek and English.

Whether the RNWT translation is better than this,

"From His abundance we have received more and more grace"    [Modern Language Bible]

I leave to the reader.

 

   

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 Share

  • Similar Content

    • By BroRando
      Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content.  is the Beginning of Creation that supersedes Genesis 1:1. For example, we read, "When the morning stars joyfully cried out together, And all the sons of God began shouting in applause?" (Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. )    Morning stars are among the first angels or the beginning angels of creation. Morning Stars and all the sons of God are the angels that existed before Abraham was and before the earth itself. After all, it was the newly created earth that they were applauding.   Jesus even admitted of coming from the gods whom the word of God came! Jesus answered them: “Is it not written in your Law, ‘I said: “You are gods”’?  If he called ‘gods’ those against whom the word of God came—and yet the scripture cannot be nullified— do you say to me whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world, ‘You blaspheme,’ because I said, ‘I am God’s Son’? (Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. )       The Hebrew and Greek languages often use feminine nouns to point to a creation. According to the strong concordance theos can be rendered two ways. One way, is in the Masculine sense as in the first instance of (Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. ) But what about in the second instance as in Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. ? Isn't that scripture describing his qualitative sense? His divinity in being divine?   Strong's Concordance    theos: God, a god  Original Word: θεός, οῦ, ὁ  Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine; Noun, Masculine  Transliteration: theos  Phonetic Spelling: (theh'-os)  Short Definition: God, a god  Definition: (a) God, (b) a god, generally.       Many Scholars know this, but withhold the fact that theos can be rendered (a god) as it was with Paul and Moses. Other variations of rendering Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content.  also exist:   1808: "and the Word was a god" – Thomas Belsham The New Testament 1822: "and the Word was a god" – The New Testament in Greek and English 1829: "and the Word was a god" – The Gospel History According to the Four Evangelists 1863: "and the Word was a god" – A Literal Translation (Herman Heinfetter) 1879: "and the Word was a god" – Das Evangelium nach Johannes (J. Becker, 1979) 1885: "and the Word was a god" – Concise Commentary on The Holy Bible (R. Young, 1885) 1911: "and the Word was a god" – The Coptic Version of the N.T. (G. W. Horner, 1911) 1935: "and the Word was divine" – An American Translation, John M. P. Smith & Edgar J. Goodspeed, Chicago 1955: "so the Word was divine" – The Authentic New Testament, by Hugh J. Schonfield, Aberdeen. 1958: "and the Word was a god" – The New Testament of Our Lord and Saviour Jesus Anointed" (J. L. Tomanec, 1958); 1975 "and a god (or, of a divine kind) was the Word" – Das Evangelium nach Johnnes, by Siegfried Schulz, Göttingen, Germany 1975: "and the Word was a god" – Das Evangelium nach Johannes (S. Schulz, 1975); 1978: "and godlike sort was the Logos" – Das Evangelium nach Johannes, by Johannes Schneider, Berlin   The use of a feminine nouns emphasis the fact that the Word was created.   When? “In beginning was the Word . . . ”
      (en    arche      en  ho  logos)  Words such as arche', godlike, wisdom, grace, divinity, or deity are all in the feminine sense.   Many religions teach that God has a beginning but if the truth be known, God is eternal.    Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content.
    • By The Librarian
      Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content.
      Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. 1890-The-Wonderful-Story.pdf
       
      I like her cover choice..... I can see the feminine influence on some of her decorations.
       
      Part of the ...
      and
       




  • Recently Browsing

    • No registered users viewing this page.
  • Popular Contributors

  • Topics

  • Posts

  • Members

    • butchsweet

      butchsweet 71

      Member
      Joined:
      Last active:
  • Recent Status Updates

    • misette  »  Gilles h

      Bonsoir Gilles
      S'il te plait, aurais-tu le samedi après-midi de l'assemblée régionale 2021
      Je te remercie
       
      · 2 replies
    • Eric Ouellet

      Soyons reconnaissant devant toutes ses oeuvres
       
      Le Dieu des dieux, Jéhovah, parle ;
      il convoque la terre
      depuis le soleil levant jusqu’au soleil couchant.
      De Sion, la perfection de la beauté, Dieu rayonne.
      Notre Dieu viendra et ne pourra pas garder le silence.
      Il y a un feu dévorant devant lui,
      et une violente tempête fait rage autour de lui.
      Il convoque les cieux et la terre
      pour juger son peuple :
       « Rassemblez auprès de moi mes fidèles,
      ceux qui concluent une alliance avec moi par un sacrifice. »
      Les cieux proclament sa justice,
      car Dieu lui-même est Juge. (Sèla.)
       « Écoute, ô mon peuple, je vais parler ;
      ô Israël, je vais témoigner contre toi.
      Je suis Dieu, ton Dieu.
      Ce n’est pas pour tes sacrifices que je te réprimande,
      ni pour tes holocaustes, qui sont constamment devant moi.
      Je n’ai pas besoin de prendre un taureau de ta maison
      ni des boucs de tes enclos.
      Car tous les animaux sauvages de la forêt m’appartiennent,
      même les bêtes sur mille montagnes.
      Je connais tous les oiseaux des montagnes;
      les innombrables animaux des champs sont à moi.
      Si j’avais faim, je ne te le dirais pas,
      car le sol productif m’appartient, avec tout ce qui s’y trouve.
      Vais-je manger la viande des taureaux
      et boire le sang des boucs?
      Offre en sacrifice à Dieu ta reconnaissance
      et acquitte-toi des vœux que tu as faits au Très-Haut;
      appelle-moi en temps de détresse.
      Je te secourrai, et tu me glorifieras. »
      Mais Dieu dira au méchant :
      « De quel droit récites-tu mes prescriptions
      ou parles-tu de mon alliance?
      Car tu détestes la discipline,
      et sans cesse tu tournes le dos à mes paroles.
      Quand tu vois un voleur, tu l’approuves,
      et tu fréquentes les personnes adultères.
      Avec ta bouche, tu répands le mal,
      et tu attaches la tromperie à ta langue.
      Tu t’assieds et tu parles contre ton frère;
      tu révèles les défauts du fils de ta propre mère.
      Quand tu faisais ces choses, je gardais le silence,
      alors tu t’es dit que j’étais comme toi.
      Mais, à présent, je vais te réprimander
      et exposer ce que j’ai contre toi.
      Réfléchissez à ceci, s’il vous plaît, vous qui oubliez Dieu,
      sinon je vous déchirerai et il n’y aura personne pour vous secourir.
      Celui qui offre en sacrifice sa reconnaissance me glorifie ;
      et à celui qui est déterminé à bien agir
      je ferai voir le salut de Dieu. »

      · 0 replies
    • Eric Ouellet

      Dieu aime les prières et la sincérité de ses serviteurs humbles
       
      Dieu aime la bonté de coeur envers autrui et non aux sacrifices et holocaustes d'animaux sauvages et domistiques.
      Dans ton amour fidèle, accorde-moi ta faveur, ô Dieu.
      Dans ta grande miséricorde, efface mes transgressions.
      Lave-moi complètement de ma faute
      et purifie-moi de mon péché.
      Car je suis bien conscient de mes transgressions,
      et mon péché est constamment devant moi.
      C’est contre toi que j'ai failli, oui j'ai fait le mal
      devant tes yeux.
      Ainsi, tu es juste quand tu parles,
      tu es droit quand tu juges.
      Vois ! Je suis né coupable
      et, depuis l’instant où ma mère m’a conçu, je suis pécheur.
      Vois ! Tu prends plaisir à la vérité dans le fond du cœur;
      enseigne-moi la vraie sagesse, au plus profond de moi.
      Purifie-moi de mon péché avec l’hysope, pour que je sois pur;
      lave-moi, pour que je sois plus blanc que la neige.
      Fais-moi entendre le son de l’allégresse et de la joie,
      pour que les os que tu as broyés se réjouissent.
      Détourne ton visage de mes péchés
      et efface toutes mes fautes.
      Crée en moi un cœur pur, ô Dieu,
      et mets en moi un esprit nouveau, ferme.
      Ne me chasse pas de ta présence ;
      ne m’enlève pas ton esprit saint.
      Redonne-moi la joie d’être sauvé par toi;
      éveille en moi la volonté de t’obéir.
      Je veux enseigner tes chemins aux transgresseurs,
      pour que les pécheurs reviennent à toi.
      Libère-moi de la culpabilité de meurtre, ô Dieu, mon Dieu sauveur,
      pour que ma langue puisse proclamer joyeusement ta justice.
      Ô Jéhovah, ouvre mes lèvres
      pour que ma bouche proclame ta louange.
      Car tu ne veux pas de sacrifices — autrement, j’en donnerais ;
      tu ne prends pas plaisir aux holocaustes.
      Le sacrifice qui plaît à Dieu, c’est un esprit brisé ;
      un cœur brisé et broyé, ô Dieu, tu ne le rejetteras pas.
      Dans ta bienveillance, agis pour le bien de Sion ;
      bâtis les murailles de Jérusalem.
      Alors tu prendras plaisir aux sacrifices de justice,
      aux holocaustes et aux offrandes totales ;
      alors on offrira des taureaux sur ton autel.


      · 0 replies
    • Eric Ouellet

      Dieu aime les prières et la sincérité de ses serviteurs humbles
       
      Dieu aime la bonté de coeur envers autrui et non aux sacrifices et holocaustes d'animaux sauvages et domistiques.
      Dans ton amour fidèle, accorde-moi ta faveur, ô Dieu.
      Dans ta grande miséricorde, efface mes transgressions.
      Lave-moi complètement de ma faute
      et purifie-moi de mon péché.
      Car je suis bien conscient de mes transgressions,
      et mon péché est constamment devant moi.
      C’est contre toi que j'ai failli, oui j'ai fait le mal
      devant tes yeux.
      Ainsi, tu es juste quand tu parles,
      tu es droit quand tu juges.
      Vois ! Je suis né coupable
      et, depuis l’instant où ma mère m’a conçu, je suis pécheur.
      Vois ! Tu prends plaisir à la vérité dans le fond du cœur;
      enseigne-moi la vraie sagesse, au plus profond de moi.
      Purifie-moi de mon péché avec l’hysope, pour que je sois pur;
      lave-moi, pour que je sois plus blanc que la neige.
      Fais-moi entendre le son de l’allégresse et de la joie,
      pour que les os que tu as broyés se réjouiss.
      Détourne ton visage de mes péchés
      et efface toutes mes fautes.
      Crée en moi un cœur pur, ô Dieu,
      et mets en moi un esprit nouveau, ferme.
      Ne me chasse pas de ta présence ;
      ne m’enlève pas ton esprit saint.
      Redonne-moi la joie d’être sauvé par toi;
      éveille en moi la volonté de t’obéir.
      Je veux enseigner tes chemins aux transgresseurs,
      pour que les pécheurs reviennent à toi.
      Libère-moi de la culpabilité de meurtre, ô Dieu, mon Dieu sauveur,
      pour que ma langue puisse proclamer joyeusement ta justice.
      Ô Jéhovah, ouvre mes lèvres
      pour que ma bouche proclame ta louange.
      Car tu ne veux pas de sacrifices — autrement, j’en donnerais ;
      tu ne prends pas plaisir aux holocaustes.
      Le sacrifice qui plaît à Dieu, c’est un esprit brisé ;
      un cœur brisé et broyé, ô Dieu, tu ne le rejetteras pas.
      Dans ta bienveillance, agis pour le bien de Sion ;
      bâtis les murailles de Jérusalem.
      Alors tu prendras plaisir aux sacrifices de justice,
      aux holocaustes et aux offrandes totales ;
      alors on offrira des taureaux sur ton autel.


    • Shirley Lowery

      Hello to all my Spiritual Brothers and Sisters! I haven't been on here in a while, because as of August 17, 2021, I moved to Commerce, Texas! I was on the Commerce Housing Authority Waiting list since 2019!  I was selected to receive my one bedroom apartment, with my Chihuahua, with my precious Babyboy, who is now 16 years old! and I signed my lease on August 5, 2021, and had my gas turned on! We have a very small Congregation of 71 publishers, including me!  I haven't been to our beautiful Kingdomhall yet, but I did take some photos of the outside of it! I'm praying that we are one of the Congregations, chosen to start attending in person, our pilot meetings that many countries are now attending! Puerto Rico, Chile, and Australia are a few chosen right now! There's three Shirley's in my Congregation!  Two elderly sisters, one is white, she's No.1 , and another  elderly sister who is black, she's No.2, and I'm ShirleyL3!  One sister lovingly named me that! I feel special now! I haven't been given an assignment yet, but soon I will!  I really enjoyed our "POWERFUL by FAITH" Regional Convention so much!  We needed all the Spiritual Encouragement which focused on all of us! Also, all those beautiful videos, and the real life experiences! July 29, 1972, was my baptism date! 49 years now, serving Jehovah! I was 15 when I dedicated my life to serve Jehovah! I'm 64 years young now, and still faithfully serving Jehovah! I do telephone witnessing now! Which lots of people hang up on me, but I'm used to it now! All that matters is that I'm giving Jehovah my best!  I'm so excited about our Special Campaign now!  Only Jehovah reads hearts!  Hopefully lots of people will show some interest!  This year 2021 is almost over! I received both doses of Moderna, and have to wait till I turn 65 in May, to receive my Booster shot! We lost over 17, 000 brothers and sisters to Covid-19! My prayers are with them and their families! Soon, as Jehovah has promised, they will welcome their loved ones back in their lives, during the resurrection! I love it here so much, everyone is very friendly! I just love my Congregation too! I hope everyone makes their personal decision to get vaccinated! Also I hope everyone has a great rest of 2021! Let's see what Jehovah has in store for us in 2022! Were having our Circuit Assembly on November 27, 2021!  Take care of yourselves, be safe, and always trust in Jehovah!!!  Have a great weekend everybody, agape love, Sister Shirley Ann Lowery! 
      · 1 reply
  • Forum Statistics

    • Total Topics
      64.3k
    • Total Posts
      135.1k
  • Member Statistics

    • Total Members
      17,144
    • Most Online
      1,592

    Newest Member
    Sheljm37
    Joined
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

Terms of Service Confirmation Terms of Use Privacy Policy Guidelines We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.