TrueTomHarley

I did note in our assigned Bible reading for this week the 2 John 4 verse: “I rejoice very much because I have found some of your children walking in the truth.” He did not find “all” of them doing so. He found “some” of them doing so. And what of the ones who were not? If the atmosphere was anything like it is here, the brothers taking the lead were being blamed for all of them. Even the fact that they are now regarded as “inspired” would not have saved them in the eyes of their critics, who did not believe it for a second.

That’s a little too flippant. I’ll walk it back. @Srecko Sostar @4Jah2me Even @Witness “To he who has been given much, much will be expected” is more like it, and the GB operates, in my view, in harmony with that. Sometimes in pushing back, one overreacts. The idea that I was trying to convey is that humans are not perfect, even those with responsibility, and Jehovah’s Witnesses accept that as a given.

That is very gracious of you. Upon reading your words I tried to enter the kitchen to pour myself a cup of coffee, but I got my big head stuck in the door. Moreover, (I would not expect you to know this) this is all the reasoning of the Appeals court. It was overturned in the Supreme Court (Canada). JTR is just weaving this thread around the verdict that he wishes had prevailed.

Of course they do! It is true with any discipline. The first follows from a clear Bible law to “abstain from blood,” one of the few carryovers from the Mosaic law. The second is an adaption to modern technology and reflects an unwillingness to dictate people’s consciences. Some will say that even the tiniest fraction is blood. Others will say, “it’s not a cake until you mix the ingredients.” Yes. And for the most part that account will be: “Oops,” and that will be the end of it. It is only you who expect perfection from these guys. Witnesses don’t. They didn’t sign on like kids expecting Santa Claus. (Plus, you would have to define what you mean by “empty.” Just because something is modified in the light of new developments does not mean the original was “empty.”) Always the quarreling point will be the divine/human interface. It was even true with Judas. He and God were tight—there were no problems there! But that fellow that claimed to be the Messiah was not at all what Judas had been expecting. And those yo-yos he was attracting—don’t even go there.

Well....you have to think through what you say before you say it. If you say something dumb and present it as accusatory fact, what do you expect? The guy was a realtor. Do realtors make deals for life? Of course if he was in the midst of a contract, we could expect that contract to be respected—otherwise he could sue whoever broke it for damages. It is his repeat business that suffered, not his individual contracts, which only last a few weeks, or at most, months. I have used several realtors in my lifetime. Not one courtroom said I had to keep the same one forever. There are a great many “ifs” and “seems” in your accusations. Why don’t you nail them down with more certainty before going on the offensive with them?

In school, I studied math. But I refused a textbook because that was not really math, but was a book about math. I also studied science. But I refused a textbook because that was not really science, but was a book about science. What! Those frauds were trying to indoctrinate me! But I was too clever for them. Well....you do have me there.

You didn’t read it right. Of course. When I was in business, I always made legal contracts with my customers that they remain customers no matter what. I made it illegal for them to take their business elsewhere.

I don’t think that we can see it here. In fact, JWI has said just that about the GB, or something very close. This is the second time you have addressed JWI and I have interrupted before he can answer. Ideally, I won’t do it again. But you make very strong statements on things you do not understand. You had no idea the role of the workbook, for example, and yet made the most ludicrous charge about it. If this is going to be your gig, it may be that you should attend congregation meetings for awhile, or even accept a Bible study, so that you can familiarize yourself with what you have decided to weigh in on.

Oh. I see. That perception is incorrect, though. Sample presentations are included, but they are but a small part of what is contained in the workbook. The workbook is simply the program for the upcoming meeting, making it possible to prepare for it. Any meeting of any sort is better if you can prepare for it. The segment you refer to runs about 15 minutes in an overall meeting of nearly two hours. I haven’t used one of the sample presentations in ages. For the most part, I don’t like them. They are presented as a form of coaching. Door-to-door preaching is not the easiest thing in the world, you know. Try it yourself and let me know what you think.

Where never is heard a discouraging word and the skys are not cloudy all day. He’s just getting started. See comment on the other thread: “Come, come. This is not a gentlemans’ club. The only gentleman here is @JW Insider, who astounds me with his civility, even in the face of downright hostile comments. I confess that I sometimes wonder if I should try to emulate him more. His civility does him no good, however. Malcontents take his civility and beat him over the head with it. But he is of the sort who believes that theocracy dies in darkness, and I think their response does not matter to him, It is a little mean, I will concede the point. And I have no problem apologizing. Still, when you take the stage to level the most outlandish accusations, ill-informed except for from the playbook of other opponents, you cannot cry if someone pointedly takes exception to your shooting from the hip. Furthermore, my place is enshrined here by none other than @The Librarian herself (that old hen). It was her idea—not mine—to put me on a thread entitled TrueTom vs the Apostates. I protested. I didn’t want the job. I don’t go out of my way to pick fights with these characters. My protest fell on deaf ears. So I tackled the job with such ferocity that the entire thread was thrown into the abyss and I had to wear a Scarlet Letter, same as Hester Pryine—mine for “abuse.” (hers for “adultery”) Two years later the experience proved the germ of an ebook, “TrueTom vs the Apostates!” https://www.smashwords.com/books/view/917311

Come, come. This is not a gentleman's’ club. The only gentleman here is JWI, who astounds me with his civility, even in the face of downright hostile comments. I confess that I sometimes wonder if I should try to emulate him more. His civility does him no good, however. Malcontents take his civility and beat him over the head with it. But he is of the sort who believes that theocracy dies in darkness, and I think their response does not matter to him, It is a little mean, I will concede the point. And I have no problem apologizing. Still, when you take the stage to level the most outlandish accusations, ill-informed except for from the playbook of other opponents, you cannot cry if someone pointedly takes exception to your shooting from the hip. It frankly didn’t make any sense to me. But if it makes you happy, Mr 4Jah2Me: “WORKBOOK.”

They should be embarrassed faces. Isn’t there an emoticon for that? Step into your own church and assume pastorship duties if you think there are not requirements going above and beyond that of members/ What it says is that the requirement to walk in lock-step, as you must have said elsewhere, is a figment of your imagination. If you haven’t said it, it is only a matter of time, because you buddies say it ad nauseam. This is too stupid to respond to. I just can’t do it.

Well, yes....but this is a JW forum and the consensus will be that one must meet the basic criteria—no trinity, no immortal soul, role of God’s kingdom, neutrality, preach the good news, God’s name, traditional morality, and so forth. If one is going to sail outside those boundaries, keep sailing, and I’ll say it is Tim Cook.

It’s true. If I am asked a question in service, like, “Who is God?” I will say, “Hold that thought while I check in with my masters.” I dial them on my cell phone. I used to dial them on my smart phone, but they took it. They said I shouldn’t go thinking myself smart. Only they are.

“Trying to fulfill.” That hardly sounds delusional to me. Nor does it seem haughty or pretentious. If it is not them, who else could it be? (No Facebook pages allowed) (It is not Dilbert, either)

You don’t want to know.

It’s about time! If you were more astute, I’d have 1000 from you by now.

Then we could expect John to write of it in 2 Revelation

That feeling is incorrect.

I haven’t seen him in a long while. It may be that Foreigner banned him.

Finally! Something that I can agree with Witness on—assuming that she does not throw good sense completely to the wind. (as she does in other areas)

YEAH!!! The old hacks are wearing out, becoming far too tiresome! Time for fresh malcontents!

I would never denigrate human rights. I like those things. Life is easier when they are respected. But I prefer the term Golden Rule. It preserves all that is noble about human rights while discarding all that is pretentious. We are too short-sighted to properly use our human rights. Plus, our own bodies do not respect them, so can they really be called “rights?” In his day, Ronald Reagan was arguably the most influential person on earth. Ten years later, in the throes of Alzheimer’s, he didn’t know who he was. In this case, obedience to Christ will one day remedy this assault on our human right to unlimited life, limb, and health. Clearly this is the human right to focus upon, as we practice the golden rule. Still, “human rights” is the buzzword today, not “golden rule,” so that is the game that must be played. It doesn’t always translate into a plus. I wrote up an example some time ago. Mormons had succeeded in a California ban on gay marriage. In 2010, the ban was overturned and the judge sited a famous JW case: “The reference by Judge Walker to West Virginia State Board of Education v. Barnette will have the Watchtower Society scratching their heads. “How did we help those wicked sons and daughters of Sodom and Gomorrah?” they will be asking themselves. “To which I replied: “No they will not.” “Well....... “It was never the intention of the intolerant Witness religion to grant any freedom of expression outside their own narrow view,” he asserts. “Nor was it their intention to restrict any other group from benefiting from legal precedent they’ve established,” I replied.” https://www.tomsheepandgoats.com/2010/09/proposition-8-mormons-jehovahs-witnesses-and-joel.html Noble though the concept of human rights may be, the Bible doesn’t necessarily embrace them. Does it celebrate the human right of unlimited free speech? Sometimes it celebrates shutting people up: “It is necessary to shut their mouths, because these very men keep on subverting entire households by teaching things they should not for the sake of dishonest gain.” (Titus 1:11) I have no problem acknowledging “apostates” get some credit for this. I said so with regard to the May 2019 WT that reproach for CSA falls on the abuser, not the one who reports it. https://www.tomsheepandgoats.com/2019/02/the-reproach-of-child-sexual-abuse-falls-on-the-abu.html Everything in life is action/reaction, and the constant efforts of some of them have served to highlight an injustice. Once people leave the Christian organization, it is easy to lose track of them, and these “whistleblowers,” if they want to be called that, did not allow that to happen. In fact, for ones who stayed true in all other areas, they might afterwards resume their place and forever draw satisfaction from what contribution they have made. They rarely do, however. One of the most striking things about “apostates” is that they eventually throw EVERYTHING away. The unique combination of positive traits and beliefs that identify Jehovah’s Witnesses and Jehovah’s Witnesses alone—they discard it all.

This has nothing to do with anything except it IS on the topic of the thread—mentally ill: I just read a reference—and I have never heard the nickname before—to Kim Jung Mentally Il Un

The expression, I believe, is “fellowshopping.” They had disfellowshopped the old place out.