TrueTomHarley

The founder of the BITE model that is used to label whoever thinks out of the mainstream as a “cult” has just written a book entitled: “The Cult of Trump” about how that one employs aspects of mind control. When you think half the country has fallen under the influence of a cult, it is evidence, in my view, that you have drunk too much of the Kool-Aid yourself. It is also evidence that the entire BITE anti-cult model is no more than a leftest political philosophy that attempts to scientifically endorse a culture of victimhood and move it into protected status. That’s not to say that everyone who doesn’t like Jehovah’s Witnesses is a leftest. But those who don’t like them on the basis that they are a “cult” usually are. “Victimhood” overplayed is an odious thing. No one ever made a bad decision. When that appears to be the case, it is only because that one has been misled. No one has ever changed goals in life simply in the course of human development. When that appears to be the case, it is only because that one has been misled. And yet these same ones, who do no wrong themselves unless it can be blamed upon someone else, are the first to cry how others should be “held accountable” and must “take responsibility” for anything not according to their wish list of looking at things. What a culture of crybabies anti-cultism spawns.

Exactly. In the first century, Nero executed Christians en masse. What would Agent JackRyan, Witness, Srecko, Mathew457845, and Shwiiiiiii said about that had they been around back then? You know that they would be screaming at how incompetent and wicked were the brothers taking the lead in Jerusalem. Witness would have quoted half the Hebrew Scriptures in an effort to show how it was their presumptuousness that was to blame.

I agree completely! I always go to sleep when they do that. I don't see the point. In “Tom Irregardless and Me” I write that, when Tom conducts the Watchtower, he will milk that introductory paragraph, taking comment after comment about how bad things are in the last days, and then just when they are dying down, he himself will throw in that item about the rhinoceros at the zoo that stomped over that child, as though that, too, was a sign of the last days, and get everyone going again.

Haha, that would be funny. I don't think that will ever happen because it's too judgmental. But I understand your point! “Brother, when I hear you speak I marvel at the wisdom of Jehovah’s organization in cutting public talks down from 45 minutes to 30.” All that I will say on this is that the last meeting was enough to end my study with Santa Claus. He had. been making such good progress. I had finally gotten him to stop disrupting meetings with a “HO HO HO!” whenever the speaker made even the lamest of jokes. He had stopped pronouncing the elders “bad” when they asked him and me to take his outbursts to the back room. He had even said he was giving up the extreme sports stunt he pulls every late December, out of regard for appreciating the gift of life. It wasn’t the full beard the fellow had at the beginning that stumbled him. Nor was it the shaven-off beard that he had at baptism. It was the half-beard that he had at his study, thus indicating progress. Sigh...and he was a good study. His wife always served the most delicious cookies. I will weigh in on some of these other things, too, when I get a moment. Thought has gone into them.

What it proves is that when it is clear they have erred, interpreting scripture incorrectly, they admit it in print and move on—the very opposite of the line you and Witness are peddling that they hide their mistakes at all costs. The only one who says that it is impermissible for humans to err is you. They have never taken that position.

I would certainly never say that it was impossible. I took the word of some what I thought were respectable sources that the laws were not aimed primarily at religion. But sometimes even respectable sources don’t know their knee from their elbow.

Grumble, grumble. Do you think I can get my Scrabble-cheating brother to take even the slightest interest in spiritual things? But when it serves his purpose, suddenly he becomes a Fred Franz.

I had forgotten what he had said about Jehovah’s Witnesses. But it fits well with this remark from a Russian scholar: “Nikolai Gordienko, of the Herzen Russian State University in St. Petersburg, has stated ‘When the experts accuse Jehovah’s Witnesses for their teachings, they do not realize that they are actually making accusations against the Bible.’”

One young woman at the congregation meeting last night identified with the “missing drachma” parable of Jesus, saying: “When I put my hand in my back pocket and find some money there....Whoa! it is a big deal!” (“Betty Davis style” is how Bob Dylan said it.) I must admit that it inspired me to do the same, slipping a dollar into my back pocket, pulling it out and exclaiming: “Whoa! Look at this!” It was this illustration at Luke 15 that got her going: “What woman who has ten drachma coins, if she loses one of the drachmas, does not light a lamp and sweep her house and search carefully until she finds it? And when she has found it, she calls her friends and neighbors together, saying, ‘Rejoice with me, for I have found the drachma coin that I had lost.’” There is a not-so-hidden rebuke in Jesus’ words summarizing a similar parable: “I tell you that in the same way, there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over 99 righteous ones who have no need of repentance.” Well, they did—need repentance that is. Otherwise they would have been out searching for the missing sheep themselves: “What man among you with 100 sheep, on losing one of them, will not leave the 99 behind in the wilderness and go after the lost one until he finds it? And when he has found it, he puts it on his shoulders and rejoices. And when he gets home, he calls his friends and his neighbors together, saying to them, ‘Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep that was lost.’” The context was that of the Pharisees sneering at the common people that they should have been tending to, even employing the pejorative term “ahhaarets”—“people of the dirt.” Straying a little off-topic, but still fair game, the conductor of that Bible-study portion explored how you wouldn’t want to come across that way in your own ministry: Bible principles are good and with them people mess up their lives much less than they would otherwise. Sometimes it works at the other end, and they succeed much more than they would otherwise. It depends upon one’s starting point. At any rate, come across someone in the ministry with a host of problems , and realize it could well be you in the absence of Bible principles—I mean, it is no basis for ever feeling superior, as those Pharisees did without ever mastering the godly ways. Again, not part of this particular study, but certainly in the same vein, was Jesus’ rebuke to those same religious leaders on another occasion: “But when the scribes of the Pharisees saw that he was eating with the sinners and tax collectors, they began saying to his disciples: “Does he eat with tax collectors* and sinners?” On hearing this, Jesus said to them: “Those who are strong do not need a physician, but those who are ill do. I came to call, not righteous people, but sinners.” Sometimes those who dislike Jehovah’s Witnesses trying to paint it they they have a high proportion of those mentally ill. I have no idea whether this is true or not, for mental illness defines the times that we live in, but I don’t even kick back at this anymore. Instead, I say that, if true, it is exactly what one would expect. I quote Jesus’ words that he came to call, not on those who do not need a physician, but on those who do. “Spiritually sick” is what he is talking about, but if spiritually sick, then maybe emotionally or mentally sick as well—sickness tends to overflow its category. The people you have to wonder about, in my view, are not those who experience emotional difficulties in the face of the present world, but those who do not—those who sail past atrocities on every side and remain undisturbed. The two Bible chapters up for review in that mid-week meeting were Hebrews 12 and 13. Discipline was a theme, in view of 12:7.. “You need to endure as part of your discipline,” the verse says. There was a video of a circuit overseer taking counsel from his wife as discipline. He was upset over someone he thought had treated him badly, and his wife said: “Well, that’s because he is a yo-yo. But so are you. Get over it.” [precise words mine, not hers] He told of how he had received a letter from the branch telling how he had botched something or other, and he counted that, too, as discipline. Sometimes we get counseled over various things. Still, the overall sense of Hebrews 12:7 is that even if no one ever says a word to you about anything, simply to pursue the Christian course in a world that either wants to change that course or have nothing to do with it is a “discipline.” The lives of Jehovah’s Witnesses might be described as ones of delayed gratification; they go light or even abstain from certain aspects of life that they would otherwise engage in for the sake of laying hold to a greater prize. That takes self-discipline. Delayed gratification is usually seen as a responsible thing, even by Witness opposers, but not in this case. That just pursuing the Christian course in the face of an indifferent or even hostile world is in itself a form of discipline is plain from surrounding verses, as well as the overall context of the Book of Hebrews itself. Those members of the Jerusalem congregation were tiring of holding the line. They “ought to be teachers in view of the time but they again need someone to teach [them] from the beginning the elementary things.” (5:12) Hopefully, they would be encouraged by the “great cloud of witnesses” surrounding them—not to mention Christ’s own example, so as to “not get tired and give up.” (12:1-3) “In your struggle against that sin, you have never yet resisted to the point of having your blood shed. And you have entirely forgotten the exhortation that addresses you as sons: “My son, do not belittle the discipline from Jehovah, nor give up when you are corrected by him; for those whom Jehovah loves he disciplines, in fact, he scourges everyone whom he receives as a son.” You need to endure as part of your discipline. God is treating you as sons. For what son is not disciplined by his father? But if you have not all shared in receiving this discipline, you are really illegitimate children, and not sons. Furthermore, our human fathers used to discipline us, and we gave them respect. Should we not more readily submit ourselves to the Father of our spiritual life and live? For they disciplined us for a short time according to what seemed good to them, but he does so for our benefit so that we may partake of his holiness. True, no discipline seems for the present to be joyous, but it is painful; yet afterward, it yields the peaceable fruit of righteousness to those who have been trained by it. Therefore, strengthen the hands that hang down and the feeble knees.” (12:4-12) Don’t be a lout and don’t miss the point of God’s undeserved kindness [“grace,” many transactions say, but the New World Translation says “undeserved kindness,” since the former term just conveys to the modern man that God is not clumsy and doesn’t topple over things]: “Carefully watch that no one fails to obtain the undeserved kindness of God, so that no poisonous root springs up to cause trouble and many are defiled by it; and watch that among you there is no one who is sexually immoral nor anyone who does not appreciate sacred things, like Eʹsau, who gave up his rights as firstborn in exchange for one meal. (12:15-16) He is shaking the very heaven and the earth. He is not shaking the congregation directly, but it is sure to feel the aftershocks—hence the heightened need for the discipline of endurance: “Now the expression “yet once more” indicates the removal of the things that are shaken, things that have been made, in order that the things not shaken may remain. Therefore, seeing that we are to receive a Kingdom that cannot be shaken, let us continue to receive undeserved kindness, through which we may acceptably offer God sacred service with godly fear and awe. (12:27-28) (thoughts gleaned from the midweek meeting of September 23-29, 2019) *Tax collectors were the lowest of the low in popular esteem back then because they were not unknown to shake people down for, not just the required tax, but whatever they could get in addition.

Give them permanent “W”s

No. Unless she is very very subtle. The main thrust of the laws do not even specifically target religion, though she may be no friend of it. Others have point it that way. As to our reputation in the general world, I would put it: “When perusing religion, look for the people who are individually praised but collectively despised.”

AMC didn’t have a lot of money. They recycled a lot, often detrimentally but in this case for the better. Some of the best looking cars around were AMC but also some of the most hideous

Nobody but nobody has “apostates” like Jehovah’s Witnesses. It is almost as though I am proud of them. Every NT writer wrote about opposition and apostasy. If it happened then, it should happen now. What if there was no opposition today? Wouldn’t you have to wonder why? Since Witnesses do not seek to evade taxes, they pay into social & police services to a greater proportion than most groups. Since they put into practice Bible principles that improve lives, they draw upon those services to a much lesser degree. They are honest. They don’t resort to violence, either, in contrast to the majority who will when the cause is deemed right. It should be taken as more evidence that what Witnesses have is the truth. It would not be so determinedly opposed were that not the case. The opposition to them is hugely disproportional to their “offenses.”

Well, one can hardly blame him for that. Forgive me. My family made me drive Ramblers (AMC) growing up—the ultimate in child abuse. I developed an unreasonable underdog defense mentality about them.

I even fashioned this into a post, old boy. Thanks for the inspiration: https://www.tomsheepandgoats.com/2019/09/you-read-it-and-decide-if-it-was-a-quid-pro-quo-conversation-worthy-of-bringing-down-a-us-president.html (any comments go here, not on the post itself. I won’’t allow them there. We must not tic off the Librarian. (that old hen)

Some do. Some don’t. I think the key point to take away from this is is, not only can people not agree on what to do in light of the facts, but they cannot even agree on what the facts are. Pew Research puts it this way: https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2018/08/23/republicans-and-democrats-agree-they-cant-agree-on-basic-facts/ The Bible puts it this way: But know this, that in the last days critical times hard to deal with will be here. For men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, haughty, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, disloyal, having no natural affection, not open to any agreement, slanderers, without self-control, fierce, without love of goodness, betrayers, headstrong, puffed up with pride, lovers of pleasures rather than lovers of God, having an appearance of godliness but proving false to its power. (2 Timothy 3:1-5)

“The only reason to oppose such building and organization is to break up, ideally even eliminate, the coordinated preaching work that it facilitates. It is no more complicated than that. Say it plainly, and you will win some respect for frankness. But to mischaracterize operational expense as “abuse” is just too devious.”

You know, that’s a good one. It really is.

The cool thing about words is that you can build so many things with them.

This objection is all too silly, in my view. They are dormitories where the Bethelites are housed. They are nice dormitories, to be sure, but they are still dormitories. They facilitate the spread of the united good news throughout “all the inhabited earth.” They are a logical extension of the “works greater than these” that Jesus told his followers they would perform. The “abuses” you site are no more than basic human needs—done “on the cheap” to the degree possible. (Certainly there is no arrangement to “clothe) anyone) It is true even of the solar energy and green roofs. They make for lower operating costs, thereby reducing the burden of those who will be asked to support the facility. Do you rail against extravagant waste when anyone else puts up solar panals? The only reason to oppose such building and organization is to break up, ideally even eliminate, the coordinated preaching work that it facilitates. It is no more complicated than that. Say it plainly, and you will win some respect for frankness. But to mischaracterize operational expense as “abuse” is just too devious.

This is because I was traumatized when I spotted someone violently attacking a fortune-teller, hitting her repeatedly and hard, and all she did was laugh and laugh. I intervened. “What do you think you’re doing?” I demanded of the assailant. ”Just trying to strike a happy medium,” he replied. Still sure you want me on the other forum?

I’ve said it before but not lately. The forum is good for me because with it I can hone my writing. If I post a Jumping Jehovah’s Witnesses photo on the JW only forum, someone will give me thunderous applause. If I truthfully say that I think such photos are stupid, someone else will counsel me to turn my frown upside down. For the most part, I like the atmosphere of unity on what is most important, but there are times when it will not do. Better, from a writing point of view, to be here. Here I can reference some JW foibles, even missteps, and not suffer rebuke. More importantly, here I can write something favorable about them and know that there are villains that will promptly hurl it back in my teeth. I analyze the response, like a Hadron collider scientist. Sometimes the results tell me that my comment was a logical train wreck. Even friends here will tell me so. When my remark brings mostly taunts, insults, and ridicule, then I know that I have hit bullseye. A writer needs a muse but he needs more than a muse. He also needs a villain, so I hang here where there are villains galore.

Two recent developments have occasioned specific rebukes from the U.S. State Department. 1) the sentencing of 6 Witnesses to jail terms of 2-3 years. 2) the torture of at least 7 in Surgut, which Russian authorities at first denied but ultimately said proved necessary because the Witnesses resisted with martial arts techniques. Of course, every other faith is kept track of as well—it is not just Jehovah’s Witnesses. Still, a State Department release of last year specifically mentioned just two groups. 1) Muslims, and 2) Jehovah’s Witnesses. All others were lumped into a single third category: 3) Others. Of course, Trump might always consult with his son-in-law who can recall to him his dealings with the Witnesses from whom he purchased Bethel buildings—that they were people with whom “a handshake deal meant something.” He lavished praise on them in that video that JW.org took down as the Presidential campaign got underway, presumably so that agent Jack would not attempt to portray Witnesses as part of Trump’s election machine. JTR, who does not hesitate to speak abusively of those whose counterparts the apostle Paul dared not, might well be right on this one, but I am not holding my breath. The two Presidents did want to get along, but I am not sure that the occasion hasn’t passed. Any overtures between them have been soundly scuttled by the American media. It is even as though when the kings of the north and south indicate that they would like to agree, outside forces intervene to make sure that they can’t, as though to to enforce the current understanding of Daniel’s prophesy that the two will hate each other’s guts right down to the end. It is also possible that Trump senses in his meeting on religious freedom an opportunity to defuse accusations that he is anti-Muslim. It is Muslims who are under attack today, probably more so than Christian groups, and probably spurred on by the perception of how readily a certain strain of it goes on to embrace violence. Who can say what Trump is up to? To say he is a bull in a china shop, one must accept the premise that the status quo among world and national leaders is a “china shop.” But he might well be likened to a junkyard dog in a junkyard. Who can say where he goes next? At any rate, he sidesteps an agenda of climate change policy and hosts his own religious freedom meeting instead. Religious freedom is embedded in the U.S. Constitution, primarily the Bill of Rights. Climate change is not, and Trump plainly doesn’t trust it, viewing it as a mostly concocted wedge to drive socialism more firmly into the world fabric. Instead, he goes to country after country, as though the personification of capitalism, to cut deals. He reverses decades of policy that holds that “giving away the fort” trade-wise will trigger political change, as newly monied populaces rise to overthrow the tyrannical governments that rule them, like a worldwide “Arab spring.” There is not much evidence that it works that way. It certainly didn’t with the Arab spring, and China is doubling down on its willingness to oppress, even in the face of material prosperity. So will JTR’s prophesy come true, that Putin will reverse JW persecution by year’s end? I agree that they are both pragmatic. But Trump is firmly resisted. And Putin may be as well. The New York Times speculated that he may not be so firmly in control as is assumed, partly because after he says: Why are we persecuting Jehovah’s Witnesses? This must be looked into. the persecution does nothing but intensify. Even as the JW ban was under consideration, one pundit asked: why would they do it? There was no question that they could, but why would they? They do nothing but make themselves look ludicrous and thugs on the world stage. But it has been “pedal to the medal” since. The succeeding act was to rule the New World Translation as extremist—not a Bible at all—and thus paint themselves before all as breathtakingly ignorant, since anyone with even a modicum of scholarship knows that it is. The anti-religion campaign has only intensified. Deprived of the New World Translation, Jehovah’s Witnesses there resort to any translation. So courts have found that some verses even there are actually “extremist.” In doing so they have bought into the nonsense of the BITE model promoted by “anti-cultists” in the West. Such has become the wisdom that carries the day in Russia, however stretched the idea might be. It’s founder, Stephen Hassan, has just written a book about Trump: “The Cult of Trump—a Leading Cult Expert Explains How the President Uses Mind Control.” https://freedomofmind.com/announcing-my-new-book-with-simon-and-schuster-entitled-the-cult-of-trump/ When you think that half the country has fallen under cult influence, it is evidence in my view that you have drunk too much of your own Kool-Aid. It is also evidence that the entire BITE anti-cult movement is little more than a political movement. It is little more than a tool of the left. It is a new culture of victimization elevated to sainthood. And it has been allowed to define Russia’s response to any religion not on the “approved list”—which in the Christian category, there is only one: the Russian Orthodox Church.

3 days, two minutes.

How’s this for credibility, you blustering blowhard? The Bills are 3-0, as this Lett lookalike points out. Or ....gasp! is it him? How long do you think it is before Agent JackRyan or Witness has them laying down NFL bets at HQ? https://mobile.twitter.com/TomBrady/status/1175917825187299328