TrueTomHarley

He also had a very high regard for Jehovah’s Witnesses, likely through his close association with Mickey Spillane 

@TrueTomHarley Unless you are willing to mount and ride one

Your comment makes no sense whatsoever.

Watch for it..... I don’t want to issue a spoiler, but think Star Wars.
”Luke....I am your father!”

I go through all of your comments, don’t I?

Mr. Butler has to know out in the real world when you preach the gospel, people will not take kindly to vague answers to a question. He has to learn sooner or later because if he were to preach the gospel to people, there will be things he cannot answer correctly or fully.
For a Butler can say Jesus is the Son of God and the guy he preaches to pulls up a verse, Titus 2:13, such things you cannot be vague about, to speak and defend the truth of the bible, one has to answer the question accordingly, fully even and at least drop a verse or two, in that way you actually use the Bible in spreading the gospel.
Jesus, the disciples, ministers and Paul can explain themselves, we should be doing the same. But when people speak the truth such ones do not accept it, and it is not by my hands or someone else that on the day that the Christ returns, His Sword would be drawn on the very person who denied what is true, for that fault is on the hands of the man who does not listen, just as it was in the days of Noah, in the days of those who didn't heed the call of what was about to go down in Jerusalem and other examples as seen in the Bible.
Also the Christmas thing, I didn't realize it, however he can use colors to separate his words, as long as it can be seen and the like.

Twat. 
 

Billy’s right. Often the answer is ‘Who cares?’ 
Bethel only cares that the scriptures not be dissed. They do not presume to instruct scientists on their own turf, and when they do, they back off.
They have referred to the time since the beginning as eons, and the creative days as epochs. Do with those terms what you will. 
Does some view of science back them into a corner? Maybe it will change. If it doesn’t and seems to be valid, new light will take care of it. Let scientists be scientists and Bible teachers be Bible Teachers. It’s amazing how anal some people get.
Are they dogmatic at JW headquarters? They have published an interview with Michael Behe, who accepts evolution in the main, but just insists that it has limits. They wouldn’t have done that if they hated each others guts.

Hey @admin! Like what you see?
It sure did scare me when you whirled about with ‘If you kids don’t stop crying back there, I’m going to stop this car and give you something to cry about!’
No lasting effect, though.
You may not have seen how I expanded upon that last post. I had tons of fun with it. And I am not done yet. Not to worry. It all makes you look good, and even the Librarian will survive:
http://www.tomsheepandgoats.com/2018/10/high-praise-for-chuckles.html
 

You know, I like this. I just do. I mean, he is. Say it & be done with it & move along, as he does. He is not self-aggrandizing. He doesn't do it to show off. He is merely trying to strike blows for what is truthful.

First, it may be well to catch up with Part 1: 
https://www.theworldnewsmedia.org/topic/70655-is-it-time-for-jehovahs-witnesses-to-apologize-part-1/
Jehovah’s Witnesses did fail in this regard. Let us admit it. They failed to ‘go beyond the law.’ The stakes are so high that law is thereafter reinterpreted to mean that they did violate it. Why did they fail? Ms. Chuck accurately states that any Witness victim or family of victim was always free to report child sexual abuse and that congregation justice did not preclude outside secular justice. Arguably, then, they failed because they were insular, as she says, and they may not realize just how firmly she has put her finger on the reason. They were not inclined to air their dirty laundry before the public.
It is not hard to understand. In some cultures, the concept of ‘saving face’ is so firmly entrenched that your efforts to communicate are doomed to failure if you ignore it. The very reason there is an expression ‘skeletons in the closet’ is the universal human instinct to keep them there. It is even found in the scriptures that Ms. Chuck acknowledges underlie everything Witnesses do. Decrying the spectacle of early Christians taking one another into court over personal disputes, the apostle Paul writes: “I am speaking to move you to shame. Is there not one wise man among you who is able to judge between his brothers? Instead, brother goes to court against brother, and before unbelievers at that!” If Jehovah’s Witnesses today are ‘insular,’ it is because Christians back then were ‘insular.’
In this case, however, insularity, and the failure to ‘go beyond the law’ has resulted in child abusers who did not take their turn in the police lineup, as well as victims thereby deprived of justice. Whether they would have received justice otherwise is arguable, for no end of persons manage to evade the wrath of the law. But that is not the point. They should have been turned over to police, the argument goes, for the latter to either nail them to the wall or let them beat the rap. The victims want justice. Like victims anywhere, they don’t always get it. But don’t get in the way of their quest for it. Since the Witness organization is perceived to have gotten in the way, with law being reinterpreted so as to more damningly point to that conclusion, should they apologize to victims or issue a public statement of regret? You could certainly build a case for it.
When the cop speeds in hot pursuit and a horrific accident results, pointing out that he had permission to speed only goes so far. There are times when only a sincere expression of regret stems the tide of outrage, for who is going to dismiss a run-over pedestrian as ‘just one of those things’?  At such times legal matters become technicalities and you look tone-deaf if you harp on them. Best to say that, in pursuing one’s mission, even within existing rules, a terrible tragedy has resulted for which there is sincere regret.
Were the Witness organization to ever do that, it would cut them no slack with the Reddit group. They would merely drop down a notch on their list to highlight the next reason they hate their former religion before surfacing briefly again to declare the statement insincere. No, there will be no placating these folks. But it might very well clear the air for all other persons, who know very well, simply through personal experience, that Jehovah’s Witnesses are very fine people. Even arch-enemy Barbara Anderson concedes this, as she somehow manages to insinuate that this is despite their evil governing body, rather than the much more reasonable ‘because of it.’
Not because of it solely, of course, for Witnesses’ decency stems from the God they worship. But in the sense that the Witnesses’ governing body keeps them clearly focused on the Bible, the source they signed on for, they surely deserve credit, not condemnation. Almost all other faiths have swayed with the changing winds of contemporary culture. Witnesses have not. They merely update now and then, as they have with their procedures of child sexual abuse investigations. Is it intimidating for a victim of child sexual abuse to appear before the three men of a investigatory committee? Well, they never thought of that. Maybe they should have. So now it is that a child’s recorded testimony can serve itself as the witness and he or she does not have to appear personally. If he or she does, it can be with any congregation member they choose, whether male or female. The religion’s fiercest critics say they will never stop opposing until Witnesses fix their child abuse policies. Arguably, they already have, since almost all cases tried are from 20-30 years ago.
Not everyone likes Jehovah’s Witnesses. Probably more do not than do. But people are mostly fair. A statement of regret would go a long way for them to say: “Oh, I see. They did screw it up, but now I can see why. They really do abhor child sexual abuse over there.”  Otherwise, their enemies find it a cakewalk to portray those in leadership positions among Jehovah’s Witnesses as ‘arrogant,’ and in some cases, careful cultivators of child sexual abusers. They are probably the least arrogant people on earth, but that does not mean they cannot be painted that way.
They do Bible education work. They do it extensively and effectively. In the developing world, a person is stuck with some 200-year old turkey of a Bible translation that he can neither afford nor understand because nobody other than Jehovah’s Witnesses thinks it is inappropriate for Big Business to handle distribution of the Word of God. The Witness Governing Body does think it is inappropriate and they have invented an entirely new production and distribution channel so that the person can obtain a modern Bible at minimal cost, or even free. That accomplishment is not nothing.
They do not do all of this personally, of course. Detractors routinely spin it that Witnesses are ‘controlled’ by ‘eight men in New York.’ It makes no sense. They are modest persons. Many of them cut their teeth performing their trademark door-to-door ministry in the developing world, carrying out a work more lowly than that of the ones they ultimately lead. They have a certain knack at administration, as with any effective organization, but other than that, they have little expertise in anything. But they know where to find it when they need it. From a field of eight million members, where there are no paywalls nor turf battles, they can quickly assemble whatever they deem necessary.
Their latest offering in the field of Bible education consists of an online, self-guided, and anonymous course of Bible study offered on the front page of their website, JW.org. The Bible offers convincing answers to important questions of life, Jehovah's Witnesses feel, questions not readily answered anywhere else. The course is all available online for free, now. After each lesson there is the option to 1) go deeper, for the presentation is necessarily simple, 2) attend a group study at the Witnesses’ Kingdom Hall, 3) request a personal instructor, or 4) say ‘none of the above’ and proceed to the next lesson. It’s a relatively new feature. I don’t know how it will be incorporated. But with only some exaggeration, I am looking forward to saying: “I don’t want to study the Bible with you. Do it yourself. If you have any questions or want to go a level more, I’ll be around.” With only slightly more exaggeration again, the new feature illustrates that, if need be, the main Bible teaching component of the Witnesses’ work could be run out of a server in someone’s dorm room.
They always will be ‘insular,’ or to put in their terminology, ‘no part of the world.’ Surely, they must be permitted to be, for the alternative is to snuff out the type of Christianity that existed in the first century, arguably the most 'true' model. Snuffing out this model in favor of societally evolved ones would be a very fine outcome in the eyes of today’s ‘anti-cultists,’ who will allow that religion can have a place only so long as it is clearly subservient to contemporary life and leaders. Anything not meeting this description they are inclined to label a ‘cult’ that ‘brainwashes’ people through ‘mind-control.’ Those of that spirit of Western anti-cultists have used exactly that reasoning to fuel the furor that has banned Jehovah’s Witnesses in Russia and confiscated all of their property, with many other faiths shaking in their boots that they will be next. Of a prominent Russian anti-cultist, Alexander Dvorkin, who shares Western connections via an French NGO, a human-rights expert has said: he “enjoys disseminating inflammatory narratives and hate speech.” It is no less with anti-cultists here, who further their goals through whatever avenues present themselves.
It may well be time to acknowledge that this avenue, this one involving child sexual abuse reporting, is one that became riddled with axle-bending potholes, express sincere remorse, help out to whatever extent is necessary to fill them in, so as to move on with the overall program.
End of Part 2. Part 3 to follow.

I could have told you that JTR would instantly jump in to answer this one. I didn't need a crystal ball for that one.
Yeah. The opponents are going bonkers. That is why this might have a place somehow:
 

What is the phone number of your WT conductor?

You know, I like this. I just do. I mean, he is. Say it & be done with it & move along, as he does. He is not self-aggrandizing. He doesn't do it to show off. He is merely trying to strike blows for what is truthful.

Simply go to their online library, look up the verse and viola, as easy as making scrambled eggs.
Biblehub and Gateway you simply scroll down and or look for commentary or it is spotted under Bible Study Tools website.
That because I am. It is not something done on purpose for I have said knowledge is power. I do not care for I didn't come to impress, I come to correct.
Also your trust in the guardian is somewhat.... telling.
 
As for the other thing you said, most news media, news outlets and the like are not always trusted, for me, personally, I go to independent sources, 3 of which are very credible, mainly when it comes to world affairs and things happening, like in Israel and so forth, another in Russia.
 
But it would seem someone who is educated offends you and others here. No worries. This is the case with those are as so, for the care isn't there but the information still presses forward.

These amounts are generally reduced upon appeal and sometimes thrown out entirely, as was the previous record-holder. The much ballyhooed $4000 a day penalty imposed by some court, which ultimately became a substantial sum, was thrown out by a higher court as judicial overreach, just as @AllenSmith34, practically alone as I recall, said. In that regard, although chased around so much that he had to employ 100 aliases, though nobody else suffers too much for being offensive, he proved himself the MVP of the forum.
Nevertheless, I would never say that they are nothing, nor that they do not add up. Time will tell. It may be that our version of truth will prevail in time and not yours. Will Jehovah go to bat for those who, to the best of their ability, carry out his will? If he does, it will be like putting his finger on the scales. So substantial is his finger that whoever sits on the opposite scale goes hurtling off into oblivion.
To the extent that you succeed in your goal you impede the most selfless and efficient disaster relief program the world has known. Will God allow that? Time will tell. 
Please don't carry on about 'they only help fellow Witnesses.' The reason that they only (for the most part) help fellow Witnesses is that they are mostly volunteers using vacation time, and cannot do everyone. The best they can to is to set an example in selflessness that others can follow, if their heart moves them. So far, their example is not followed by others, who prefer established charities where everyone must be paid and sometimes unbelievable waste occurs. Such as here:
https://www.propublica.org/article/how-the-red-cross-raised-half-a-billion-dollars-for-haiti-and-built-6-homes
This is the model you have chosen, John. Half a million dollars. Almost all of it flushed down the toilet. Embrace it, John. It's yours. JTR too, I think, for he has also waxed enthusiastic over the prospect that the JW relief work may be slowed.

I managed to torpedo even that. After the paragraphs carrying on and on about Tom’s misguided suspicions, I raised my hand and said: ‘In hindsight I was embarrassed over the whole thing, and I’m glad that I didn’t blow the brother in.’

Actually he probably was. Not exclusively, but that was probably in the mix. Jesus said they would be “lyingly saying every sort of wicked thing” about his followers. History records they were accused of cannibalism. While not pedophilia?
 
 

HeÂ’s got a point there.
The trick is not to primarily speak to him, but to speak to whatever audience may be in the background.

Some people are good at Whack-A-Mole

Some people are just waaaay to good at Whack-A-Mole

Some people are not good at Whack-A-Mole

I'll go along with this.
And as for the rather self indulgent "bantering" in this thread, isn't it time to call it a day and to wake up to what is really happening at this time and place in the history of civilisation?
Just look who's coming to dinner!!!!

It is too early for @admin. He gets up late and then has to putz around for some time before checking the mail. I’ll answer for him. As Monk says, he’ll thank me later.
Somewhat reluctantly, he finds himself hosting a religious JW forum, though he is not that way himself. No JWs on it are typical JWs because if they were typical they would be more acquiesent to their organization’s preference they not take part in such forums. One important reason their organization prefers that they abstain is the undignified mess that results when they do not.
For a variety of reasons, some Witnesses go there anyway, and, to be sure, there are parts of the forum largely innocuous. I avoid these parts and go right to the hot areas. It has helped me hone my writing, and about half of my ebook, Dear Mr. Putin - Jehovah’s Witnesses Write Russia, can be found in about 500 fragments scattered throughout. Mr. Admin is thereby my friend. I owe him.
As atypical JWs and their adversaries flail away, making points and counterpoints, some ridiculous, he has ‘lost it’ only twice to rebuke participants, once to say: “Jeez, you guys are a piece of work!” What could I tell him. That we’re not? 
It is so rare for him to chime in that when he does, it is like hearing a voice from On High. The only appreciable difference is that a voice from On High is unlikely to say, “Jeez, you guys are a piece of work.”

This is a very good point. Recently I read a report of women who had been kidnapped by ISIS. They had been exhibited in cages, driven about in the back of trucks, raped any number of times at will by multiple men , burned with cigarette butts when they resisted. THESE are the people John’s lying new friends try to equate Witnesses with? C’mon! Even @admin will cease to think this an unseamly squabble between co-religionists and recognize it for what it is: Decent people that may not be his cup of tea, though decent nonetheless, under attack from the despicable.
John does have one genuine circumstance that, in some measure, excuses his unhinged hatred. He has written, here or on another thread, of a truly horrific childhood involving sexual abuse. It had nothing to do with Jehovah’s Witnesses, a faith he discovered much later. But it appears to have seared him permanently. To that extent, I can sympathize with him.

Honestly, John, I don't know why you act as though I am your adversary. Have I not stated that they wet themselves at the thought an elder may glower at them?
I will go further to confess what I have never confessed before. Our BOE used to rent a prison bus to round up the publishers and make them go to the convention. They made me drive. I didn't want to, but they made me. Also, when they told me I had to drive, they made me applaud their words until I thought my hands would fall off. 
They publishers didn't want to go. None of them did. They used to hide in the bushes when they saw me pulling up in the prison bus. But the elders had ordered me to stuff them in nice clothes by force when necessary. Oh, how my conscience torments me not. I hate them I hate them I hate them
That's nothing! I have seen children actually confined in oversized parrot cages until they finished studying their lessons, at which time, if they were lucky, they might be fed a cracker.

I did NOT say you are loony. (Or did I?) What I said was that you so closely resemble loony that I cannot tell the difference. See? I am willing to put the onus on myself.
Imagine. Here I propose what has never been proposed before, at least by me, making a magnificent concession, and the big baby just keeps saying hateful things about the Christian organization.