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Thank you, thank you, thank you

Thank you!

Clearly, they are already demanding your exile. Yes! It's unfortunate that Pudgy spoiled a great discussion about science. I hope the discussion can continue without any more nonsensical interruptions. Just a suggestion since they are on your heels. Wow! You speak! It seems you have a lot to say! Now they are going to treat like, who do you think you are, mister big stuff! Are those aliens now going to imply that anyone who speaks out against the five or six key contributors to this site will be treated as though it is George just because those in opposition speak the language they hate to hear, the TRUTH? They are seeking individuals who will embrace their nonconformist values and appreciate what they can offer in shaping public opinion contrary to the established agenda of God and Christ. Their goal is to enhance their writing abilities and avoid squandering time on frivolous pursuits, mainly arguing about the truth they don't care for. They see it all as a mere game, even when leading people astray. They believe they have every right to and will face no biblical repercussions, or so they believe. They just want to have fun just like that Cyndi Lauper song. Be prepared to be belittled and ridiculed, all the while they claim to be angels. Haha! By the way, please refrain from using the same language as George. They appear to believe that when others use the same words, it means they are the same person, and they emphasize this as if no one else is allowed to use similar grammar. It seems they think only they have the right to use the same or similar writing styles. Quite amusing, isn't it? See, what I just placed in bold, now I'm George, lol! Now, let's leave this nice science thread for people that want to know more about science. I believe George left it at "Zero Distance."

Nice little thread you’ve got going here, SciTech. It would be a shame if something were to happen to it.

It's truly disheartening when someone who is supposed to be a friend of the exclusive group resorts to using profanity in their comments, just like other members claiming to be witnesses. It's quite a ludicrous situation for the public to witness. Yet, the "defense" of such a person, continues.

No. However, I would appreciate if you do not reveal to all and sundry the secret meeting place of the closed club. (I do feel someone bad stomping on Sci’s little thread. But I see that has already happened.)

I found this last post of yours to be a good and useful commentary on some of the lessons from the Prodigal Son parable. In Isaiah 57 we see: (Isaiah 57:16-19) . . .For I will not oppose them forever Or always remain indignant; For a man’s spirit would grow feeble because of me, Even the breathing creatures that I have made.  I was indignant at his sinful pursuit of dishonest gain, So I struck him, I hid my face, and I was indignant. But he kept walking as a renegade, following the way of his heart. I have seen his ways, But I will heal him and lead him And restore comfort to him and to his mourning ones.” “I am creating the fruit of the lips. Continuous peace will be given to the one who is far away and the one who is near,” says Jehovah, “And I will heal him.” That's correct. It was as if the son was "dead" in the sense of being lost to the family, and never coming back. Of course, there was the distinct possibility that he was also literally dead, too, but likely with no sure way for the father to have known if this was also true or not. (Ephesians 2:1, 2) 2 Furthermore, God made you alive, though you were dead in your trespasses and sins,  in which you at one time walked according to the system of things of this world, . . . Excellent point when we think about how Jehovah views those who repent and no longer walk according to the world. The son could have been thought of as spiritually dead, but made alive when he humbled himself and began walking in a course of true repentance. The context of that verse in Ephesians 2 fits the forgiveness and mercy shown in the Luke 15 parable: (Ephesians 2:4, 5) . . .But God, being rich in mercy, because of his great love with which he loved us,  made us alive together with the Christ, even when we were dead in trespasses—by undeserved kindness you have been saved. I guess we can't say that the father thought he had been "dead" in the sense that the son was "dead to sin" because being dead to sin is a good thing, but I agree that there are points in the context of Romans 6 that fit very well. (Romans 6:2) . . .Seeing that we died with reference to sin. . . And I thought those were also good points about "dead works" that you tied to "faith without works" and a good summary about true repentance from "The Biblical Illustrator."

The parable of the prodigal son serves as a powerful reminder of a simple truth: the importance of granting pardon when it is necessary and knowing when to leave the unjust to their own devices. The complementary text to Luke 15 is found in Isaiah 57. The figurative expression of Jesus' parable encapsulates what we can discern in Paul's words to the Ephesian congregation in Ephesians 2:1. It does not mean that the father literally thought his child was dead to him. Ephesians 2:1-2 New International Version Made Alive in Christ 2 As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins, 2 in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient. Once again, the central theme of obedience and disobedience takes the spotlight. Paul emphasized this idea when he penned his letter to the Romans in Romans 6:2. Romans 6 New International Version Dead to Sin, Alive in Christ 6 What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? 2 By no means! We are those who have died to sin; how can we live in it any longer? 3 Or don’t you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? 4 We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life. Should a follower of Christ keep sinning in order to be forgiven repeatedly? Other passages in the Bible make it clear that this is not the case. How can we understand this with spiritual maturity? Once again, the Apostle Paul established the basis for Christ's teachings in his letter in Hebrews 6:1. Hebrews 6 New International Version 6 Therefore let us move beyond the elementary teachings about Christ and be taken forward to maturity, not laying again the foundation of repentance from acts that lead to death,[a] and of faith in God, 2 instruction about cleansing rites,[b] the laying on of hands, the resurrection of the dead, and eternal judgment. 3 And God permitting, we will do so. "Dead works," Apostle Paul's powerful message is truly impactful. This concept is further illuminated in James 2:26. NAS James 2:26 For just as the body without the spirit is dead, so also faith without works is dead. (Jas. 2:26 NAS) No true worship or service without an obedient heart 2. Without a sincere and humble spirit of subjection, without a holy and obedient heart, all our prayers and all our services are nothing in the sight of God; are founded in hypocrisy; are no better than a mockery of his name. Submission to the authority and will of God must ever be essential to true religion under every dispensation; and few persons there are, who doubt this as a speculative truth. But there is a vast difference between the outward submission of an unrepentant and ungodly heart, and the inward submission of the penitent and the pious! It is the subjection of mind, the surrender of the affections to the will and law of God, which constitutes an acceptable service. Pardon is graciously promised to all who truly repent, and the word of God assures us, that it will be extended to none besides: upon what ground then can the unrepentent sinner presume to ask forgiveness? And how can that man dare to implore of God the grace to repent, who has no intention and no real desire of repenting? He is but adding insult to his sin. How can the wilful sinner who lives, and is yet determined to live, in any course of guilt, really pray for deliverance from the bondage of sin? (from The Biblical Illustrator)

True. If you thought I was saying that then you misunderstood. The father clearly thought of this son as "dead" UNTIL he returned: (Luke 15:24) . . .for this son of mine was dead but has come to life again; he was lost and has been found.’ . . .

Correctly positioned, it can be a remarkable phenomenon. Nevertheless, persisting in denial leads to distortion, despite attempts to modify God's words with our own emotions. Whom do we truly serve with our misguided love - Man or God? This is something that visiting witnesses should deeply ponder upon. Did God's genuine love for the Israelites stop him from having to punish the nation of Israel due to their numerous unfulfilled promises to obey? An unrepentant person is essentially breaking God's law. How did God handle those who didn't repent? Who dares to question the divine message in the name of misguided empathy?

Don't agree. The son was far from the home and the father was the first to notice his return. Maybe he looked out there every day in the hope that his son would come home again. I see Jehovah's love in this. I understand where you are coming from here and it's a wonderful way to look at Jehovah's love and forgiveness. Jehovah can read hearts and therefore, the son was not "dead" to Jehovah. Jehovah could see "from afar off" that the son was truly repentant and ready to humble himself and turn around. Naturally when Jesus speaks of a father with sons we think of Jehovah, and in some illustrations the primary son is obviously Jesus himself. All, I'm saying is that in this case, what if it's a lesson for you and me to learn something about forgiveness? Or even if it's about Jehovah and his wayward and jealous sons, what if it's also a lesson for how well we can try to be perfect as our heavenly Father is perfect --and be like that father in the illustration-- even though we can't read hearts as Jehovah can. We know that because Jehovah can read hearts, he is never really "afar off" anyway. ". . .In fact, he is not far off from each one of us. . ." (Acts 17:27) But what would it mean for you and me to show the kind of love and forgiveness "from afar off"? Wouldn't it mean that we might give the benefit of the doubt, even if a person needs to only SAY "I repent" for the 7th time in a single day? (Per Jesus' words in Luke 17). Saying you disagree is fine, because I understand that you are taking it, not so much as a lesson for the rest of us, but mostly as an explanation of Jehovah's love and forgiveness. But you probably noticed that in order to do that you had to speculate with "maybe this" and "maybe that." You had to downplay the most obvious meaning of the words "from afar off" while the father could only SEE the son. You had to surmise that the father was looking out there every day for his son even though it didn't say so. You had to surmise that the father understood that the son was about to ask to be a servant even before he could speak with the son. You had to surmise that the father knew his son was truly repentant. I was just reading it in a way where we don't have to add anything or take away anything, and we could still find a beautiful lesson in the parable.

Let us examine the underlying assumptions inherent in "The Parable of the Lost Son" in Luke 15, as well as the stark contrast presented by Jesus' words in Luke 17, which serve as both admonitions against sin and guiding principles for our Christian responsibilities. If we simply accept these passages at face value, can we truly comprehend their meaning if the intention is to justify the actions of an unrepentant sinner? Then we would need to examine the context and purpose of those specific passages. Can we truly compare those passages? If the prodigal son wasted his life and felt regretful enough to say, "I have sinned against heaven and my 'father'" for lacking the wisdom to live a fulfilling life, then who did the lost son truly sin against? Did the lost son sin against his fellow Christians or the community he was not entrusted to serve or care for? This was the compassion the father felt for a son who had lost his way in life. His sin was what he had done to himself, not others. What then is the purpose of Jesus in the parable of the prodigal son? It is to communicate the profound message that anyone, without exception, can find a place in the Kingdom of God, as long as they sincerely undergo a genuine metamorphosis and transformation of their life. Does Luke 17 apply in this case? Absolutely, it does. Only when an individual, despite their imperfections, shows a genuine willingness to repent before God and fellow believers, can they set their lives on the right course and receive forgiveness even if they stumble and sin against others many times. However, is this forgiveness unlimited? Here is where the confusion stems from: No! While we should forgive our fellow believers for unintentional sins, it does not encompass ongoing intentional sins. Therefore, it does not apply to an unrepentant person who publicly and continuously demonstrates it. That would be as if secular authority were to give a pedophile a "get out of jail free" card every time that pervert had an urge to act. However, in real life, things don't work that way, and the same goes for bible principles. In Matthew 11:20-27, Jesus conveyed a powerful message about unrepentant and accountability. However, some individuals choose to disregard Jesus' words in Matthew 18:15-17 because it challenges their interpretation of Christian love and support for an unrepentant soul. They base their argument on defending an incorrigible person. Luke illuminates the concept of "repentance" as a crucial factor, not the sin itself. This is why Apostle John's words in 1 John 1:9 emphasize the power of confessing our sins. He was not referring to private "repentance." No, a silent approach to repentance only benefits the individual. If someone believes that things should be done in secret to hide them from the public, what is that person actually demonstrating with such behavior? Deception. While it is commendable to embody Christian love, it is important to avoid displaying misguided emotions, particularly when dealing with individuals who show no remorse. The Apostle Paul was entrusted with the important task of presenting the distinctions in Christian conduct and ethics to the congregations. 1 Corinthians 5:11 New International Version 11 But now I am writing to you that you must not associate with anyone who claims to be a brother or sister[a] but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or slanderer, a drunkard or swindler. Do not even eat with such people. Anyone who disregards scripture by ignoring other passages that reflect negatively on the behavior of a group that people happen to like, and by not applying scripture as it was intended, is failing to fulfill their duty to their fellow believers and is showing disrespect to God if they use His name to undermine the true understanding of scripture. While it is true that a formal education is not necessary for individuals to gain enlightenment from scripture, it is important to note that the Holy Spirit will not manifest in those who mock God by misinterpreting scripture for the sole purpose of satisfying their own limited understanding of Christian compassion, especially when it is misguided. Therefore, it is crucial to recognize that Luke 15 and 17 are being misrepresented in this context, and it indeed requires a sound understanding of the Bible to comprehend the distinction in how these verses are meant to be conveyed to the public. It's not meant to be a "get out of jail free" card.

If you believe that someone is challenging you, one simple solution is to choose to ignore them. There's no point in carrying on a discussion that will ultimately lead to nowhere.

I fail to understand how someone without a background in biblical education can criticize those who have formal training and effectively apply their knowledge, while those without such education consistently refuse to apply it accurately. If Bible scholars are able to discern what certain witnesses here refuse to acknowledge, then their education is far more effectively utilized. Will you now defend the indefensible? Is that your rationale for providing a commentary on compassion and misguided Christian love, merely to defend those in the closed club? I refuse to engage in a quarrel with someone who is selective in their understanding of the Bible. It's evident that the misrepresentation from those who identify as JWs is clear to anyone outside the closed club. However, what is the true purpose behind your confrontational language?

I fail to see what worldly education has to do with understanding the deeper spiritual things of Jehovah. Wisdom comes from applying Jehovah's principles and reading his word regularly. A mature Christian can see when someone is misapplying, sidestepping or not seeing a point. No degree needed for that. Just Jehovah's spirit.

Don't agree. The son was far from the home and the father was the first to notice his return. Maybe he looked out there every day in the hope that his son would come home again. I see Jehovah's love in this. If the son came back after losing everything - it means he has come to a point where he has to acknowledge his sin. If he still had pride and was doing well he would still have stayed away. So he had seen the error of his ways and repented. He had to lose his pride to come back as a servant to his fathers home. Many a true word illustrated in an illustration. His son was "dead" to him while he stayed away and did not come back to his fathers arms. Jehovah's forgiveness is well illustrated here and like in the case of David, who escaped death, it is Jehovah who decides who is righteous. It is untruthful to say the son was still dead when he returned. Our faith gives us access to Jehovah's love and kindness - he is the one who decides. Today a person can come back to the truth. If Jehovah decides he is not truly repentant, he will fall out again, because one cannot stay in the truth without Jehovah's Spirit.

You are not in Kansas, anymore. Your bluster is irrelevant.

That simply implies that you, as a glorified plumber, do not truly comprehend quantum physics as you pretend to. However, you are indeed right about one thing - your criminal record, which is easily accessible to anyone, will reveal the true nature of your character. That was the intended reference, not the delusional manipulation of words that you employ to divert attention from the fact that you are fundamentally driven by base instincts as an animal at heart, which you continue to display, and people want to continue to defend you for it. Their vigorous defense of you speaks volumes about their lack of Christian ethics, overshadowing your insignificant existence. I prefer not to engage in conflict with an uninformed individual, even in this thread that was intriguing, but unfortunately, someone uncouth always manages to spoil it.

HERE IS WHAT YOU ACTUALLY POSTED!!! YIKES!

First of all, I have no criminal record which is immaterial and irrelevant to a discussion of quantum physics. You are trying to attack my credibility with ad-hominem attacks to deflect from your colossal incompetence. If I was a Nazi mass-murderer chained to a wall in Spandau Prison, what I stated here would still be true … and if you were an angel from God your irrelevant bullshit would STILL be irrelevant bullshit. You have PROVED here you havn’t got the SLIGHTEST clue what you are talking about … with every sentence. This is NOT the JW open club … we are NOT discussing theology, we are discussing the physics of light, which your statements and bluffs CLEARLY show you have no understanding at all … None Whatsoever! I wii have to admit, you got balls the size of an elephant to try an backup your complete drivel about Quantum Electrodynamics with that bogus book on intimate relationships, and ad-hominem attacks. If you were a cow, that cowboy with the rifle might advise you to wipe that foam off of your mouth!

It's satisfying to know that my comments concerning profanity aren't going unnoticed, especially when they come from someone who considers themselves superior without even attempting to contribute intellectually. I suppose it's true what they say, once an animal, always an animal. It seems that with your criminal record, you're destined to remain that way. This exercise benefits a specific person in the closed club who believes that Christian love is the solution, despite a person's heart being beyond redemption with their public actions and behavior. I would be embarrassed to think this animal was once a JW.

Thanks

Whew! Even your own explanation above shows you know NOTHING about the subject being discussed, Georgie. …. but …. but … your command of bullshit is unparalled! Even surpassing Bill Clinton’s ability to razzle dazzle. The problem is that your garbage is based on the assumption that everyone else BUT YOU is stupid, and can’t tell the difference.