The Answer May Suprise you... At the turn of the 20th Century, Bible Students were bringing Bible Literature to the masses. Carrying this fine message about God's Kingdom by person, horse and buggy, bicycles, motor bikes, and the horseless carriage known today as a vehicle.

Brother Russell and associates had an urgent message about the coming of God's Kingdom which was to be marked at the end of the Gentile times. The result? A series of books called the Millennial Dawn. This six-volume, clothbound set was so well put together that an Opposer of God's Kingdom publicly complained that the clothbound set was being offered for the modest cost of the printing of $1.65...

Some Bible Students did not even mention the printing costs and paid the costs themselves so that the public may receive freely. "You received free, give free." However, how could an iindividual carry this six-volume series to the place of distrubtion without going back to the buggy? Many began using luggage, but those things got very heavy and it was a taunting task.

Brother James Cole invented a foldable, two-wheeled frame to which a suitcase could be attached by screws. The six volume series contained some fifty books and were heavy to carry, especially for sisters. When full-time preacher Charlotte White arrived in Louisville, Kentucky, U.S.A., rolling a suitcase on wheels, she caused quite a stir. This New Invention was called the Dawn-Mobile.

6 minutes ago, Witness said:

Adam and Eve were perfect and sinned. 

Perfect people can be deceived....  which was the case in the Garden of Eden...  

Jehovah God then said to the woman: “What is this you have done?” The woman replied: “The serpent deceived me, so I ate.”

The Cult of Pearl Doxey is a Ministry of Deception...  she never got anything correct.... and so does this commentor who tries to spin scripture to mean something other than what is stated...

She makes the false claim that there is no 1,000 years, then quotes the scripture, "Now as soon as the 1,000 years have ended, Satan will be released from his prison," (Rev 20:7)

2 hours ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

And if you could be balanced and see things from the viewpoint of those you may call apostates, then maybe your heart could become warm and you may begin to understand. 

This is wierd. An apostate claims if we see things from her viewpoint that somehow we can begin to understand?

@Patiently waiting for Truth 

• accusses several posters of having the same multi-aliases
• claims to have left the organzition when she was actually disfellowshiped for threatening the Governing Body
• refuses to name the Children Home Center where she claims she was a victim
• refuses to name the person or persons that engaged in Pedophilia with her

Aren't Children Home Centers funded by government agencies and various churches of Babylon the Great?  

JW.org and the Governing Body condems such horrendous acts of violence.  Many people whom we come into contact with have been victims looking for solace, comfort, and hope for a better life.  If you are a victim or contemplating hurting yourself or suicide. Please seek professional help.

Seeking answers to why this happening can provide you with a much better outlook...

Brother Rando is in a worldwide effort to reach those who are suffering from depression and the anxieties of life. Share this Blog Post on your social media and save a life. https://www.brorando.com/post/don-t-give-up-you-have-a-reason-to-keep-on-living

National Suicide Prevention Lifeline https://suicidepreventionlifeline.org

1 (800) 273-8255

Have you come to know Jesus Christ? https://www.jw.org/en/library/videos/#en/mediaitems/VODBibleTeachings/pub-jwbcov_201505_11_VIDEO

3 hours ago, Chioke Lin said:

There seems to be some misleading words with this interpretation of the bible. 

⁹ They marched across the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of God’s people, the city he loves. But fire came down from heaven and devoured them.

This passage is referring to the people of the world, not the saints in heaven.

Actually the scripture in its context is speaking about God's People. This event of Gog and Magog is a rebellion of those whom are influenced by Satan as he is released from the abyss. Even though, it is Post-Millennial, the people in this rebellion come agianst God's Kingdom with the the same intense hatred for God's Name JEHOVAH, His Sovereignity, and Kingdom.

 Just like Gog and Magog will happen at a specified time allotted.. so it goes with the attack from Gog of Magog.  Just like the Last Days that begun in 1914, they last for an allotted amount of time. The same 'time limit' can apllied to Gog of Magog exsistence.

Few, very few people gained the discernment that Gog of Magog attack has already begun and now coming to its conclusion. We read, "So the dragon became enraged at the woman and went off to wage war with the remaining ones of her offspring, who observe the commandments of God and have the work of bearing witness concerning Jesus." (Rev 12:17)

Did you notice the word WAR in the scripture?  So when will Satan strike?  The attack has already begun... back in 1919.  How long will it last? "And I saw, and I heard an eagle flying in midheaven say with a loud voice: “Woe, woe, woe to those dwelling on the earth because of the rest of the trumpet blasts of the three angels who are about to blow their trumpets!” (Rev 8:13)  If each woe is a period of testing, then one can attain the timed event.  Afterall, the Manifestions of Propehcies are 'timed events'.

* Notice how the Watchtower strings together 1919 and the very next sentence, mentions now at the end of the  thousand years. 

50 minutes ago, Chioke Lin said:

Did I mention you were? You seem to have a hard time reading my post. I made an example on a subject you have a passion for, which is Gog and Magog.

 

At the end of the 1,000 years, scriptures show that Gog of Magog has ALREADY been destroyed as stated earlier BEFORE Paradise on Earth can begin... it is Satan's Entire Political system of things of earhly governments.. (Wild Beast)  

Revelation 20:10

And the Devil who was misleading them was hurled into the lake of fire and sulfur, where both the wild beast and the false prophet already were; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

7 hours ago, Chioke Lin said:

How about Gray's Concise bible commentary.

The seventh event is the loosing of Satan at the close of the Millenium and the doom of Gog and Magog (vv. 7-9). Here Satan is again seen (this time in his own person) at the head of a final effort to overthrow the kingdom of God on earth. In the Millennial age sin still will be in the hearts of men except as they are regenerated, and Satan will find good soil to work in when his liberty is restored. The identity of Gog and Magog is not revealed, but their purpose is clearly indicated in verse 9. The eighth event is the doom of Satan (v. 10) who, being cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, is not to be conceived of as then reigning in hell. This idea, borrowed from Milton, is not in the Bible. The ninth event is the doom of the unbelieving dead and the last judgment (vv. 11-15).

There just needs to be a hint of commonality to encourage further study as a student of the bible.

Intestingly enough you are correct on this part. Since Satan's Entire Political system of things of earhly governments have been brought to nothing. 

The identity of Gog and Magog has been identified almost two thousand years ago, it's prophecy coming events written down.

Now as soon as the 1,000 years have ended, Satan will be released from his prison, ⁸  and he will go out to mislead those nations in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Maʹgog, to gather them together for the war. The number of these is as the sand of the sea.

Why not study it further to see if you can discern what it means?

6 hours ago, Chioke Lin said:

It doesn't matter who started the discussion. What should matter, how do you prove the points yourself, with the bible without having to rely on the organization's information, since those that oppose the organization will use that information to mislead. So, who else can be linked to the opinions and theories provided?

Can "google" be used effectively? In my experience, it cannot, since there is so much disinformation. We have to look at every possible avenue to prove someone is not representing the best interest of the bible.

Let's look at barns with respect to a topic you have a great passion for, Gog and Magog.

Persia stands in its proper place; but India, under the modifications of Greater and Lesser, is confusedly repeated at different points, while the river Indus is mentioned in the text as the Eastern boundary of Asia. To the North, the castle of Gog and Magog, an Arabian feature, crowns a vast range of mountains, within which, it is said, that the
Tartars had been imprisoned by Alexander the Great. The Caspian appears, with the bordering countries of Georgia, Hyrcania, and Albania; but these features stand nearly at the Northern boundary of the habitable earth.
Africa has a sea to the South, stated, however, to be inaccessible, on account of the intensity of the heat. The European countries stand in their due place, not even excepting Russia and Scandinavia, though some oversights are observable in the manner in which the two are connected together.” pp.654-655

Hasn't the organization mentioned Russia? What is the implication under barns?

Isaiah 25:2. For thou hast made This is supposed to be uttered by the Jews who should return from Babylon, and therefore refers to what would have been seen by them. In their time it would have occurred that God had made of the city an heap. p 649

Of a city, I suppose the whole scope of the passage requires us to understand this of Babylon. There has been, however, a great variety of interpretation of this passage. Grotius supposed that Samaria was intended. Calvin that the word is used collectively, and that various cities are intended. Piscator that Rome, the seat of antichrist, was intended. Jerome says that the Jews generally understand it of Rome. Aben Ezra and Kimchi, however, understand it to refer to many cities which they say will be destroyed in the times of Gog and Magog. Nearly all these opinions may be seen subjected to an examination, and shown to be unfounded, in Vitringa.

How about Godbey Commentary.

8. We see from this verse that Satan’s army, with which he essays to conquer the world, is made up of Gog and Magog. Now let us see who they are. In Noah’s family originated the trinity of races. Ham in Hebrew means black; Shem, red; and Japheth, white. Upon the subsidence of the Flood, Noah divided the world among his three sons, giving Ham Africa, Shem Asia, and Japheth Europe. Gog and Magog are only spoken of in this passage, <011001>Genesis 10th, and <263801>Ezekiel 38th. Gog means king, and Magog means the kingly people; i.e., the nobility. <011001>Genesis 10th notifies us that they are the children of Japheth, the ancestor of all the white people. In <263801>Ezekiel 38th they are elaborately mentioned as resident in Russia.

Is the organization the only Org to suggest Russia? I think not. This is how you prove how the organization is correct and in the right track, regardless if the aggressors believe it or not. The point is, do you believe in the Org and accept the ones that are feeding you, spiritual food at the proper time. That should be the theme for every participant that isn't an opponent.

I wasn't speaking about Gog and Magog since it is post millennial... what you're speaking about is actually about Gog of Magog. 

Gog of Magog in the Book of Ezekiel represents Satan's Entire Political system of things. It is Pre- Millennial. Once the Great Tribulation starts, Jesus separates the sheep and goats and then he turns his attention towards Satan's Entire Political system of things.

Satan's Earthly Organization has many facets and allies that work in its behalf to starve, maim, and kill anyone who refuses to receive its mark. "It puts under compulsion all people—the small and the great, the rich and the poor, the free and the slaves—that these should be marked on their right hand or on their forehead,  and that nobody can buy or sell except a person having the mark, the name of the wild beast or the number of its name." (Rev 13:16)

The head of this wicked body is the United Nations. It deceives mankind making the claim it can deliver peace, dignity and equality on a healthy planet. It constantly tries to conform itself into an angel of light, even though it is the one causing the chaos. "And all those who dwell on the earth will worship it. From the founding of the world, not one of their names has been written in the scroll of life of the Lamb who was slaughtered." (Rev 13:8) This talking head by its cunning, is spewing bitter and poisonous propaganda worldwide since 1919 as the masses of humankind will be 'all too eager' to drink its Wormwood:

It has 17 Goals to Transform Our World by 2030 : "The Sustainable Development Goals are a call for action by all countries – poor, rich and middle-income – to promote prosperity while protecting the planet. They recognize that ending poverty must go hand-in-hand with strategies that build economic growth and address a range of social needs including education, health, social protection, and job opportunities, while tackling climate change and environmental protection."

31 minutes ago, Peter Carroll said:

He pretends to offer something good to try to get people to follow his teachings rather than those of God.—2 Corinthians 11:14.

...

2 Corinthians 11:14: “Satan himself keeps disguising himself as an angel of light.”

Whose the One Person in the Universe that would remove God's Holy Name from the Bible?

You may be surprised how Religion came to terms with not using the Name by removing and replacing it with watered down titles. 

50 minutes ago, Chioke Lin said:

It appears your previous comments are not as specific with that date 2030 before it was mentioned by someone else. That was my observation. I'm just wondering why it is important to mention that date now?

No disrespect implied, commentator.

If you take a few moments reading the comments, you mght find the commentor you are seeking... all the best. 

1 hour ago, Chioke Lin said:

Where have I seen this before here? If it made its debut by someone else mentioning 2030 in another topic. I can't seem to locate the poster. Why, is this time of interest, it seemed more of a correction for the year 2034?

There are several other posters that also pointed to the timing when the UN would make its move.... towards a One World Government (they will have one thought) Rev 16:13-14

They United Nations are the mouthpiece of Gog of Magog that will bring on the Great Tribulation (1 Thess 5:3)

10 minutes ago, Peter Carroll said:

they both seem to believe they are right but as there are may differances in what they believe ,they cannot both be right

Ezekiel 38:4

I will turn you around and put hooks in your jaws and bring you out with all your army, horses and horsemen, all of them clothed in splendor, a vast assembly with large shields and bucklers, all of them wielding swords;

EZEKIEL 38:18

7 hours ago, Arauna said:

We are all waiting for UN power to take total control to bring to bring "peace and security"  (which almost happened two weeks ago).  Great tribulation is on our doorstep. So we agree on that. And destruction of religion by UN leads to them attacking us after regular religions are all ousted.   These are all literal events of which we will see the physical results visible to all mankind...... They will be in fear of what will be happening next. (Luke 21)

“The ten horns that you saw mean ten kings who have not yet received a kingdom, but they do receive authority as kings for One Hour with the wild beast.  These have one thought, so they give their power and authority to the wild beast.  These will battle with the Lamb, but because he is Lord of lords and King of kings, the Lamb will conquer them. Also, those with him who are called and chosen and faithful will do so.” (Rev 17:12-14)

The "Peace and Security" declaration is the marker for those on the outside that begin dying the second death.  You may see it but if a person is lacking faith, they will not be able to discern these things that are happening right in front of them... 

Revelation 22:15

Outside are the dogs and those who practice spiritism and those who are sexually immoral and the murderers and the idolaters and everyone who loves and practices lying.’

Ezekiel 7:15

The sword is outside, and the pestilence and the famine are inside. Whoever is in the field will die by the sword, and famine and pestilence will consume those in the city.

3 hours ago, Witness said:

  There it tells us that the Beast/organization (Rev 13:1) makes war with the saints. (Rev 13:7) 

You can't have it both ways talking that Gog of Magog will not be destroyed.  When it turns on the FAITHFUL...in the LAST HOUR.. it will come to it's end...  You're all twisted into knots now Jesus and the saints are unfaithful?

Your side is losing the BATTLE... 

“The ten horns that you saw mean ten kings who have not yet received a kingdom, but they do receive authority as kings for One Hour with the wild beast.  These have one thought, so they give their power and authority to the wild beast.  These will battle with the Lamb, but because he is Lord of lords and King of kings, the Lamb will conquer them. Also, those with him who are called and chosen and faithful will do so.” (Rev 17:12-14)

To claim that the Lamb and those who are called and chosen and faithful as unfaithful is a LIE.  Not only will Gog of Magog be counquered but it will be utterly destroyed by the FAITHFUL. Jesus and His Chosen Ones...

Cry all you want.... it's going to happen in the last hour before the 1,000 Year Reign of Christ. We are in the second day now and it is dusk. At dawn of the third day... you will be thrown in utter confusion. 

Ezekiel 7:15

The sword is outside, and the pestilence and the famine are inside. Whoever is in the field will die by the sword, and famine and pestilence will consume those in the city.

44 minutes ago, Witness said:

 It is impossible in the organization for anyone to follow the commandments fulfilled in Jesus Christ's teachings, when the doctrine of men takes precedence.  

You should know as you fight tooth and nail to keep Gog and Magog from being destroyed. 😀

4 hours ago, Arauna said:

The start of Armageddon starts with literal actions  such as "peace and security" . Not "spiritual" events. 

No.. the trigger for the Great Tribulation is:

1 Thessalonians 5:3

Whenever it is that they are saying, “Peace and security!” then sudden destruction is to be instantly on them, just like birth pains on a pregnant woman, and they will by no means escape.

The UN is poised for this event in its last hour...  get it?  LAST HOUR...

"United Nations Member States decided to fundamentally transform the development coordination system to better enable the UN teams to support countries to achieve the 2030 Agenda for Sustainable Development." https://unsdg.un.org/2030-agenda

Matthew 24:39

and they took no note until the Flood came and swept them all away, so the Presence of the Son of man will be.

6 hours ago, Peter Carroll said:

Matthew 10:34
“Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword.”

As the wicked begin dying off what will be the instructions?

Ezekiel 9:5

And to the others he said in my hearing: “Go through the city after him and strike. Do not let your eye feel sorry, and do not feel any compassion.

Jeremiah 16:5

For this is what Jehovah says, ‘Do not enter a house where a mourners’ feast is held, And do not go to wail or offer sympathy.’ ‘For I have taken away my peace from this people,’ declares Jehovah, ‘As well as my loyal love and mercy.

When the wicked loose God of Magog they will be utterly exposed. That's is why they wicked are fighting so hard for it.

2 Thessalonians 1:8

in a flaming fire, as he brings vengeance on those who do not know God and those who do not obey the good news about our Lord Jesus.

There would be No Need to DESTROY Gog of Magog if it was attacking the unfaithful...

Gog of Magog Will Soon Be Destroyed

14 minutes ago, Witness said:

Okay.  Is this why the GB are saying a "Gog of Magog" will attack JWs and the anointed "Israel" in your rank?  I don't recall the GB blaming this attack on unfaithful JWs in your rank, do you?

Gog of Magog don't attack the unfaithful.... 

1 hour ago, Witness said:

Can you tell me of an event in the Bible when other nations attacked Israel and took them captive or conquered them, simply because they were faithful to God’s decrees?

The Nation of Israel were never faithful as a whole. 

The truth about Armageddon...

The Bible describes the events that will occur before and after the identification of Gog of Magog. Most have not yet gained the understanding that Armageddon begins as a Spiritual Event and then Ends as a Literal One. The Last Days are cut short in the sense that Gog of Magog's Attack on God's Named People are stifled and held in check, and 'they will not cause any harm or any ruin in all my holy mountain'. (Isaiah 11:9) This EVENT could very well last 1,000 years while Satan and his demons are put in a deathlike state of inactivity. ARMAGEDDON is the beginning of Christ’s Millennial Reign. The Great Crowd enters “the times of restoration of all things” that expands to include physical blessings for faithful humans on earth. These one's keep on living as they come out of the Last Days as Survivors. The wicked continue getting sick, growing old, and continue dying. But their death is a permanent one called the second death of an everlasting destruction. Like Sodom and Gomorrah which was destroyed... those dying are destroyed forever never to return to Life. They may even witness members of the Great Crowd begin growing to perfection as they inherit good health which makes them lament by beating their chest in dire grief to their bitter end.

As Satan controls the agitated sea of ungodly people which now includes previous brothers and sisters (separated as goats) who lost Jehovah's Divine Favor, all those found on the outside of our inner rooms are destroyed by the second death which symbolizes everlasting destruction in the same manner as Adam and Eve. The wicked simply die off. For the most part, the wicked will not be motivated to harm or kill Jehovah's People for the fear of Jehovah will be upon them! "All the peoples of the earth will have to see that Jehovah’s name has been called upon you, and they will be afraid of you." (Deuteronomy 28:10)

With that said, is it over? No. Jehovah will keep providing protection for the earth by means of his Heavenly Kingdom of Jesus Christ and the 144,000. Notice what occurs at the end of the 1,000 years. "Now as soon as the thousand years have been ended, Satan will be let loose out of his prison,  and he will go out to mislead those nations in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together for the war. The number of these is as the sand of the sea." (Rev 20:7) The Climax of Armageddon ends with the destruction of Satan and anyone else who rejects Jehovah's Sovereignty after the 1,000 years have passed. Handing the Kingdom back to his God and Father, Jesus will have brought mankind to the same perfect condition that Adam and Eve had prior to sinning. It is possible that the Great Crowd that Survives both the Great tribulation and Satan's final rebellion be blessed with immortality. I'm not prophesizing this will occur, but all things are possible with Jehovah.

Satan craves worship. EACH one of us must answer a crucial question: Whom will I worship? Those who join the rebellion will quickly be Literally wiped out. Along with Satan and the demons, they will cease to exist—with no prospect of ever coming back to life. Ahead of you is a life of rewarding work and enriching friendships. Never again will you or your loved ones need to suffer. On your own merit, you will stand before Jehovah completely without sin. Every person will have an unrestricted friendship with God. And most important of all, in heaven and on earth, pure worship will be carried out in perfection. That will be the ultimate restoration of pure worship! Either we worship Jehovah God or we worship Satan the Devil. The choice is YOURS to make. Choose Life and Keep on living.....

Gog of Magog in the Book of Ezekiel represents Satan's Entire Political system of things. It is Pre- Millennial. 

Gog and Magog comes about, as It is Post- Millennial. The conquest of Jesus Christ isn't over just yet, the War of Almighty God continues: "Now as soon as the 1,000 years have ended, Satan will be released from his prison, and he will go out to mislead those nations in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Maʹgog, to gather them together for the war. The number of these is as the sand of the sea." (Rev 20:7-8)

32 minutes ago, Chioke Lin said:

Okay, thank you. I wasn't aware I was dealing with a subversive cult. I thought this form was for, Christian discussions, not a smearing campaign. 

I don't know who, those people they speak of are, Wally McNasty, Allen, Billy the Kid. Furthermore, I guess those people left a long-lasting impression. 

I thought the insults were coming from my poor English. Now, I understand, it's because of some delusion. Thanks again.

The Bible foretold that people in general would change for the worse during our time. It indicated that this change would lead to a large-scale moral decay and collapse of social values.  (2 Timothy 3:1-5) 

2 Timothy 3:13

But wicked men and impostors will advance from bad to worse, misleading and being misled. https://www.jw.org/en/bible-teachings/questions/2-timothy-3-perilous-times/

7 minutes ago, Witness said:

When the Beast/organization does disfellowship/depose the GB, it will not be for their testimony about Jesus.  The beast will "hate the harlot" and expose her corruption.  God will put it into their hearts.  Rev. 17:12,13,15-18.     

Rev 18:4-8

I thought the Beast was the Pearl Doxey/Organization and the harlot was her subjects that were disfellowhipped and exposed her corruption. 

Then the Kingdom of God has already overtaken you.. 

Satan will be abyssed during the 1,000 year Reign of Jesus Christ. 

The book of Revelation shows that Judgment Day begins after the war of Armageddon, when Satan’s system on earth will be destroyed.  (Revelation 16:14, 16; 19:19–20:3)

After Armageddon, Satan and his demons will be imprisoned in an abyss for a thousand years. During that time, the 144,000 heavenly joint heirs will be judges and will rule “as kings with the Christ for 1,000 years.” (Revelation 14:1-3; 20:1-4; Romans 8:17) 

Judgment Day is not some hurried event lasting a mere 24 hours. It lasts a thousand years.

@Chioke Lin

Don't pay attention to @Witness or @Patiently waiting for Truth Both are ministers of Satan.  They are easily exposed... They belong to the Pearl Doxey Cult.

@Patiently waiting for Truth falsely accused me of being Billy the Kid / Allen et al. 

“Now have come to pass the salvation and the power and the Kingdom of our God and the authority of his Christ, because the accuser of our brothers has been hurled down, who accuses them day and night before our God!" (Rev 12:10)

Satan will be abyssed during the 1,000 year Reign of Jesus Christ.