Space Merchant

Isaiah chapter 2 [The Mountain of the Lord/YHWH (1-5)] [The Day of the Lord/YHWH (6-22)] What do you think? Anyone who does not alienate himself or others from God, his teachings, and the like will be saved but it is up to these same people to maintain their faith to hold on to salvation, granted the slave of the Christ stated maintaining faith is a hard fight according to him. The Apostolic Christians had everything down to the letter, or in this case, the Didache. The Church and her people, the church and her teachings that is being professed, of which one must follow. The church, believes in One God, The Father, the Almighty. The Church believes in One Son, who is Lord, Christ Jesus, The Son of God. The Church believes in power that be of The Holy Spirit, proclaimed through the prophets the administrations of God. The Church takes into account that Christ Jesus, our Lord, and our God who is also our Saviour, and King, according to the Will of the invisible Father. Think of it as this way, all of Christendom are tribes, from each tribe there are those of whom God knows who is from him and those who are not, Jesus knows who is striving to follow the Church and who is not, granted that we are imperfect, some of us may fall to sin. which some will repent and some will embrace and succumb to spiritual death by their hand. All this explained in that other topic I linked to you - twice. You even agreed with this previously. There is more to David's Story than just adultery. He was able to kill a lazy man only for the wife of that man reasoned with him, in context we can see why David was angry, the other situation he got the husband of the very woman of whom he committed adultery with killed in the front-lines, and it costed him a son. But despite this David was repentant and there is more to the what is mentioned. Also as another would be that David did everything in his power to defend and protect a chosen one of God, the same chosen one who sought to kill David, furthermore, this same man had a proper burial despite all this - for, he is an anointed King, another man withheld information from him during bad times to protect himself and David, fr the other man was a prophet.

@James Thomas Rook Jr. Something tells me that R2D2 has the plans...- These aren't the droids we are looking for...

Nowhere does in the bible does it state Jesus is God because the verse tells you of what he met by the Temple, which is the Temple of his Body. For if Jesus was indeed God, it would discredited the very fact that in other verses it is made known that God also dwells in True Christians as he dwells in Jesus, the fullness of deity that dwells in him and them, according to the verses. The additional verses listed above, several of them, if not most, cross-references with each other regarding that passage, not only does it show that it I.D.s both the Father and Son, it shows you clearly that God had a role in Jesus' resurrection, for the Bible speaks of God as being the life-giver, and in giving life he does to the Son, and giving the authority and power to the Son so that he too can resurrect a great multitude of people and I agree with what was said to Jesus in the same gospel, that whatever he asks from God, God will give to him. That is understandable, but the Bible does not show anywhere that the Son is El Shaddai, the Son was sent [Shaliach] by El Shaddai. It is wiser to take in what the Bible says and what the followers of the Christ taught, in turn, taught to the people, the church.That being said, in Trinity doctrine, the Father is not Jesus and Jesus is not the Father. For one to say Jesus raised himself is also to say the Father did not raise Jesus because Jesus is not the Father, or perhaps to say the Father raised Jesus is also to say that Jesus did not raise himself. To profess that Jesus raised himself from the dead is also to say it was not the Triune God who raised Jesus since Jesus is not the Triune being and the Triune being is not Jesus, for what it lands in another factor of confusion when a claim is made that Jesus raised himself and then insist that two other persons raised that same "himself". Which makes the problem an even bigger fire is that it puts one in a position to believe in 4 that different identities raised this particular himself: (1) the Father (2) the Son (3) the Holy Spirit (4) the Triune God Resulting in such ones who believe somehow Jesus is El Shaddai, YHWH, they are put in a situation that renders them unable to see or acknowledge their own contradictory confusion.Another factor is that YHWH himself, is incorruptible, not like a man or a son of man, and only YHWH, all of which the Bible makes it clear of several times, furthermore, is identified as the Father, as well as God, and by the Law, this is stated as well, something of which I believe I stated before. Anytime, for the Bible and the context that comes from Scripture is always key- nothing cannot be left out and everything must be taken to understand the apostolic church's position - which lines up with that age. I never dismiss Scriptures, if I had, it would defeat the utmost respect and practice of Biblical Hermeneutics in my case, after all, I respect the verse and passage by making use of the cross-references and as with anyone who practices Biblical Hermeneutics, all things must be taken into account and anything pertaining to how the passage connects harmonious with anything pertaining to an event read in the Bible, that includes all verses that line up with that time-frame of Christ Jesus and the meaning of what he said, furthermore, there is no contradiction, granted that among the source gospel accounts, John's gospel was the unique one, if I may add. The specific account in John 2 (the passage in question being 13-22). Now, the claim here regarding John 2:19 to some means Jesus raised himself. For after reading this without further study and or ignoring the cross-references that brings forth the context, one would read into it as is and look no further after that. This brings the reason of such ones who don't see the problem with their claim; [God the Father raised Jesus from the dead], [the Holy Spirit raised Jesus from the dead], and [Jesus raised himself from the dead]. When context is taken seriously and the references, it is clear of who raised Jesus from the Dead to fulfill what was said, as well as what was in use by means of it, and as we can see when Jesus actually died, he was actually dead for that time when he was later resurrected. To believe that all 3 persons of Trinity doctrine raised Jesus from the dead, therefore, it is concluded to such ones that the Triune God raised Jesus from the dead and here is where the confusion manifests in of itself. Outside of the realm of confusion, as the Bible itself professes when context is put forth in application. Unfortunately, people who take this claim seriously without application of context don't always understand that they aren't making any sense at times. In the doctrine of the Trinity, the Father is not the Triune being, the Son is not the Triune being, and the Holy Spirit is not the Triune being, and conversely, the Triune being is not the Father, the Triune being is not the Son, and the Triune being is not the Holy Spirit; to say Jesus raised himself is therefore to say the Triune being did not raise Jesus because Jesus is not the Triune being in Trinity doctrine or to say the Triune being raised Jesus is to say that Jesus did not raise himself since the Triune being is not the Jesus, for the Father raised Jesus from the dead in addition with Jesus raised Jesus from the dead and the Holy Spirit raised Jesus from the dead - that amounts to the Triune God raising Jesus from the dead, granted that Jesus himself actually did perish, in this case actually died, or as the Bible says - expired. What some fail to see is that if they make such a claim, they can't say the Father raised Jesus from the dead nor can they say Jesus raised Jesus from the dead nor can they say the Holy Spirit raised Jesus from the dead because any one of these 3 is not the Triune God in their own doctrine of the Trinity. Simply put, to claim the Triune God raised Jesus contradicts the claim that Jesus raised himself. In the Doctrine of the Trinity, you simply cannot say that the Triune God raised Jesus from the dead and also insist Jesus raised himself from the dead, and hope to make any kind of sense whatsoever because Jesus is not the Triune God, and the Triune God is not Jesus. The Triune God raised Jesus from the dead or Jesus raised himself from the dead. Therefore, in the doctrine of the Trinity, you can't claim both without contradicting yourself in the process. And yet when God speaks, he wants us to understand His Word, and but forth the application, and his own Son speaks God's Word, hence Shalich Principle in play on Jesus' part. All things should be taken into consideration. John 2:19 does not amount to any evidence that Jesus is God at all (especially if you take in the meaning of his words along with the references), he speaks of the Temple of His Body, and the very fact Jesus, while on earth was corruptible, capable of dying and has died, thus showing you that he was like us of mankind, who was indeed born a Jew into the Law (Galatians 4:4). The next factor is the fact that Jesus profess Shema, God cannot profess Shema because he is the one who gave this Law to Moses in which he and the people followed well into Paul and Jesus' day and into present day - us. And the other regarding Jesus being a mediator between 2 parties [God and the disciples he spoke regarding the Covenant with in regards to Spiritual Israel]. In the Bible we only see the Father identified as God, many times, and we see people who know, even demons and the fallen one himself, that Jesus is God's Son, and Jesus himself is well aware of the one who sent him and the Will of whom he is doing as well as the one who raised him from the Dead, thus making him the Firstborn out of the Dead and the First of the Firstfruits. There is only one God, not three. Well I suggest you make more research regarding the Bible and not wait around for Judgement. Just as when Jesus was a child who observe, recite and read the Old Testament, learned of who the God of Israel is and what he had done, for us today we must do the same, and read the word daily and take everything into consideration as with the cross-references and context that comes from the Bible. for John 1:3, it is also best to carefully consider John 1:5, the Light shines in the darkness, it is obviously apparent that these words are referring to the ministry of Jesus as seen in John 3:19-21, 8:12, 9:5 and 12:35-36, granted the very first chapter of John is John's Introductory. Moving into verse 4, we also read that life was in the Word and that life was the Light of men. It should be taken into consideration here that John is not referring to the Genesis act of creation at this point. The true Light which enlightens every man was presently coming into the world (John 1:9). The last part of verse 3, in connection with verse 4 indicates that life and light came into existence by means of the Word. (Colossians 1:15, 16). With this information in view, it is obviously apparent that John 1:3 is not referring to the Genesis act of creation but to all the things that came to be through the proclamation of the Word, through the ministry of Jesus. For this reason, Jesus cried, It is finished (it has been accomplished) later down the road when he was killed by means of Crucifixion; just as we find God was finished all His works in the Genesis act of creation, the same regarding the one sent by means of Shaliach Principle. Jesus' ministry was the beginning of the new creation of God, whereas our risen Lord, Christ Jesus, is the first of the firstfruits of that new creation (as well as the one Firstborn out of death), the beginning of the creation of God, mainly when it can be understood what the new earth and new heavens entails regarding said new creation. Indeed, but the Temple in question is His Body, the Body of our Lord, Christ Jesus, in turn the Father's Temple due to the very fact God does his Purpose and Will through his Son. That temple of which they were thinking about was The Temple of Herod. Yes, the Holy Spirit is mention in both verses, but you have one instance regarding the Christ regarding him being risen on the 3rd day and the other regarding those who are ministers. Because the Holy Spirit is mention in both instances, does not equate the two into being the same event, despite Holy Spirit being one of 90 or so occurrences in various instances in the Greek New Testament. If so why state Jesus raised himself when the Bible itself has made it clear he had expired? You sure? Can you show me Acts 13:2 references regarding John 2:19? Regarding my response to you is as followed: [Acts 13:2 focuses on such ones ministering for God. The references for this verse points to Ac 9:15 and 1 Timothy 2:7, even while outlined nothing points back in references to Jesus being risen from the tomb....], I do not see Acts 13:2 pointing back to John 2:19 - anywhere, even while outlined. https://www.blueletterbible.org/esv/jhn/2/1/t_corr_999019 https://www.openbible.info/labs/cross-references/search?q=John+2%3A19 https://biblehub.com/john/2-19.htm The only verses Acts 13:2 cross-references to and points back to even in outline form is Deuteronomy 10:8, 1 Samuel 2:11, Daniel 9:3, Matthew 9:38, Luke 2:37, 1 Timothy 2:7 (as mentioned), 2 Timothy 1:11, Acts 8:29, 9:15 (as mentioned), 22:21, 14:26, Romans 1:1, 1 Corinthians 12:11, Galatians 1:15, 2:8-9, Ephesians 3:7, Hebrews 5:4, etc and dozens more, including the ones above amounting to a total of 41 verses (with 1 Chronicles 16:37-43 bringing the count up by 47 verses). That being said, even regarding Acts 13:2, both John 2:19 and Romans 18:11, is nowhere to be found, even in cross-references without outline in the Bible itself does not say and it only points back to the 2 verses already mentioned, granted that both instances were and are entirely different, despite the Spirit of God being mentioned in both instances. And the bible informs us the Christ had expired and God had a hand in his resurrection.

You are not. I can tell the difference between warm colors and cool colors and the variety of both that same from that category. You are not a disgruntled one, but those like FS, Gardner and those who subject themselves and clearly show merit to their ideologies, are disgruntled ones. They are lucky I do not speak agree with those both Passaic and Warwick County folk that consider the actions of the disgruntled as borderline extremism by means of their disruptive protest.

This is because people do not take into account the actions of those in the Bible, mainly those mentioned in the Old Testament, especially Moses, of whom there is a passage that prompts people to deny him and say they do not follow Moses, for they say this because they do not taken into context his actions, which was similar to that of King Saul. For those who claim to read the Bible ignore these facts that is as clear as day, placed before them like the sun in the sky, for it is that obvious. That being said, no Restorationist Christian in history, or ANY non-trinitarian, claim to be inspired, those who nullify by being spirit direct and or the holy spirit into the mix clearly have no idea of what the notion actually is - inspired and or not inspired prophets and or teachers.

If that was the case then why in God's name would you quote what I said earlier? Hypocritical, don't you think? You pulled one of these solutions is to educate our children on this matter, when I am speaking about the solutions provided by Child Abuse and Neglect Prevention services themselves. So Srecko, where is it in my own response [above] I am equating Bible Principles? Show me. Another thing I stated the following, directly to you: Well the thing is Srecko, I am not talking about JWs, I am talking to you, directly, I said this because if you are unaware of such services actually exist, you show yourself not to be someone who is doing things the better way of putting into application, teaching our young ones about the problem so they themselves can teach others to lessen cases of abuse, be it sexual or violence and or other. Therefore, when I said you've been under a rock, it shows you do not take into account of the problem at all and solely dig your head into a single faith group. And I am glad Mr. Butler agrees with you because I told him the same thing months ago to which he agrees just for some reason this time it is different, and now it shows his view has changed. I am probably sure he agrees with your other views that is against anything Scriptural as well if it was obvious against what is true to what the Word says. For a guy who wants to have a say in child abuse, you tend to ignore anything pertaining to child abuse prevention in terms of educating the youth, as you have done before and as you have done now, Srecko. Now Srecko, you ask for Bible Principles, you shall have it. As with ANY Christian the safety of our children is of very high concern, to wherever our children are and whom they are in contact with and or communication with, be it young persons or grown people. The Bible speaks of all forms of Brazen Conduct which correlates with sexual immorality/fornication otherwise known as or in the same category as pornography. For, the Bible itself condemns such loose and unclean conduct as Galatians 5:19-21 and Ephesians 4:19 states. Granted Mr. Butler assumes I "pretend" which cannot proven by his own word, twice, perhaps a third, I will show you as to how these verses point this out regarding the principles you seek and yet you yourself do not apply, after all you want to focus on the Bible as you claim Galatians 5:19-21 - [19] Now the works of the flesh are evident: sexual immorality, impurity, sensuality, [20] idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, rivalries, dissensions, divisions, [21] envy, drunkenness, orgies, and things like these. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. Ephesians 4:19 - They have become callous and have given themselves up to sensuality, greedy to practice every kind of impurity. Granted that the primary responsibility for protecting a child and or children against abuse belongs to parents and or guardians, it is an obligation for us as both a guardian and or parent to educate ourselves on this matter first before educating such things to a child or children. Those who have or care for children need to understand that, there are things we can do regarding child abuse and things we cannot do, although we cannot stop it 100% as Mr. Butler claims in regarding a cleansing of a faith community which is neigh impossible. If we are to be honest, truly honest with ourselves, a simple, reasonable man would be wise enough to understand that if we can't even stop wars, famine, sickness and death 100% by our OWN hands, how can one think, even assumes that man who cannot govern or keep themselves in check can somehow cease anything in the category of abuse, which is also including of child abuse? Last I check the bible makes it clear only God's Kingdom can clear all that, cleanse the badness of this world as with men who governs their own into Hades - by their hands (Daniel 2:44-45). The truth of the matter is, due to the price of our imperfections, such a thing exist and will only be done away with by God himself, not you, not me, not Butler, not even the Jehovah's Witnesses, not anyone, expect God and what his Purpose and Will (And his Order [whereas biblical fact was proven true in contrast to the errors professed by both you and Witness], of which you were in denial of before) entails in regards to the removal of ALL forms of wickedness, in conjunction with ALL things that brings us pain and sadness, one of the many things, that being Child Abuse. I believe in God strongly and what He will do, but if you yourself and perhaps Mr.Butler do not believe then there is a problem. Both of you read the Bible as you made it clear, this should come as obvious for you and as can be seen one cannot simply cleanse something totally because if it takes place in the world and trhives of of imperfection and sin and death, it will come back again and again and again like a recurring super villain from a Saturday morning cartoon that just doesn't seem to quit i.e. you can remove a pedophile abusing teacher from a school, but eventually there will be another and another, in the US, most of them being commonly Caucasian women, and the cycle repeats itself over and over again. You have to be living in a dreamworld if something can be eradicated totally from an institution and or anywhere in the world. The Bible even tells us that Proverbs 25:28 - A man without self-control is like a city broken into and left without walls. But it does not hinder our ability to do something - better solutions in terms of minimizing instance of abuse and having our young ones being aware of the signs of abuse and those who have been abused to increases positive outcomes in not just helping survivors, but preventing another victim, moreover, as some claim, another statistic - of which no one wants to be in any regard in such things. We have to treat potential and or suspected abusers who molest children in the same category as strangers, or those who commit sexual assault and or harassment, for these individuals come in many forms, a teacher, a neighbor, a priest, a steward, a club organizer, a business associate,a politician, and the list goes on and they are in all institutions, even among Jehovah's Witnesses and the like all institutions those who seek to commit harm to a person and or child, according to Child Abuse and Neglect Services, they seek friendship with the child and or if the child is of the household, they focus on said child, in turn a victim and or victims, other times it can be a person from in or out of town who is seeking to kidnap and rape a child, as well as possibly force them into child prostitution rings for slavery and abuse, which was the case with a real life historical example known as The Boys Town, which started out as a peaceful organization until the passing of the founder, and later on how child abusers infiltrated the organization (which is no different from Luciferians infiltration into Christendom), granted everyone knows it was beyond their power to stop this spreading of abusers and such information came to light of how it began. Another big help, an effective solution, is we have to talk to our children about what is sex, for this is another solution and a good one because for most child abusers who prey on children often find themselves victims who have no idea what sex is, thus handing them over to the abuser, you make it an easy win for them and a loss for the victim, therefore, another thing to be taught to our children increases the chance of awareness, for we have had many, many examples in our day whereas some children are able, willing and capable of evading the advances of an abuser, even some capable of seeking multiple adults who can help them (as the motto goes if one adult is of little to no help, seek ANOTHER) be it someone they know or a stranger, or some lone wolf who is seeking to kidnap a child to perform such acts, moreover, such ones who are educated in this sense can even evade and avoid other children and or teenagers who they themselves CAN be the child abuser in this case, hence the child on child abuse crimes, which can also be prevented. Therefore the Bible is correct when it comes to wisdom, in this sense, as The Bible says in Proverbs 2:10-12, it reads: [10] for wisdom will come into your heart, and knowledge will be pleasant to your soul; [11] discretion will watch over you, understanding will guard you, [12] delivering you from the way of evil, from men of perverted speech, Which brings forth question to which both you and Mr. Butler can answer - are you for or against teaching, educating children in this sense if the concern for Child Abuse is of high concern, not just among the Jehovah's Witnesses, but all children everywhere in and or out of all institutions? If anyone who adheres to Child Sex Abuse and Neglect Services, just as one adheres to the command of the Christ, the answer should be an obvious one. As I had told the both of you, someone who had spoken to young children, teens alike, even adults who are unaware of such education, there are better solutions at combating the problem, and you are looking at one. My advise to the both of you, actually pay attention to what those who make the PSA and other material in terms of training is actually saying. If the majority can, so can you, for if you can follow what the Bible says, when it comes to being morally upright and the like, you can apply in what it says about teaching wisdom, and in this case, teaching wisdom to our children. That being said, the subject of sex is awkward to discuss with children, just as it is when the child reaches a grade in elementary whereas family living is taught regarding the subject and they come to you with concerns and questions on the other side of the spectrum, a child may find the subject even more awkward, and he is not likely to bring it up with you, perhaps later on. Now to be honest to myself, I can tell you both my mother and father taught found it was the right time to talk to be about the matter before I was 12, which is the case with a majority of children in the US, for some, even younger, others, who find themselves dealing with pornography be it knowing about what sex is or not, are often educated far later on when they want to come clean about their problem and or found out to be viewing of such material. And when this is discussed with out children, we ourselves cannot be shy about what words we use and how we say it, we have to be upfront and honest about every word and every answer to a question that is posed, for we should not be ashamed of anything said. Now, These people are similar to false teachers of which the Bible deems a wolf in sheep's clothing as read in Matthew 7:15, 24:11 2 Peter 2:1, and 1 John 4:1 for such ones who are practically sociopolitical (a sociopath), they can and will do whatever it their ill goal entices them to do so when it comes to seeking younger ones who cannot defend themselves and or unaware of what will happen. Moreover, pedophilia in of itself is a disorder and those who have it can and will act out by means of said disorder and seek opportunity, on the other side of the spectrum, there are those, even in politics that seek to make this a sexual orientation, hence why if you do not seek better solutions, people like this will win and be far worse for all institutions. In many, many, if not, the majority of cases of sexual abuse of children, the abuser, who is the perpetrator is someone the child already knows and trusts - 100% fact and true and this information is the same as what these services makes us, and everyone else aware of. That being said, I encourage you both to actually open your eyes for once because as can be seen you keep them shut, and unlike the both of you, I am far more serious about the issue and I have the mental capacity to understand and see this "earthwide" problem as Mr.Butler profess is indeed a great one, but to focus solely on a group when the problem is everywhere also is sheer ignorance, just as ignorant as the one-sided claims in the US in this regard, especially when it comes to child abuse and race, which can be on the line of true an not true. That being said, if a Father, any Father in this case, can teach his son to paint, to build something, to fight, to drive and or other, it does not shy away from a Father teaching his son about child abuse, about the signs of an abuser and the sign of someone who is being or has been abused, he teaches him about sex and any body member associated in this regard, he teaches his son, his child about strangers so nothing can befall of his own son - vice versa for daughters and the mothers who teach their children. In this day and age, a child can be swayed by an abuser from a game such as Minecraft (it extends to even social media, something of which I will post very very soon putting forth the facts), but any educated parent, especially one who has played games themselves, teach their children about being safe online, as is in the schools and the churches. Therefore, we should spare time to TEACH our children so they can equip themselves with wisdom in this regard, even Biblically , since you want an answer, so they can be aware of any brazen conduct that can potentially make them a would be victim and or a statistic of the worse kind. The next problem you face is that the very people you tend to seek for help regarding child abuse are the same ones who tend to free abusers on the whim, to Butler, the grooming Gangs in the UK s with human sex trafficking coupled with the Black Market, to anyone in the US, the fallen politicians, who got out scott-free when he should be serving his sentence. For if you Butler cannot recognize how pedophiles, some of them far worse than others, how they take up authority in any institution of their living, as of now even Restaurants, then clearly you both have a lot to learn, as I told Mr. Butler time an time again, and I will say it, so my words stick this time, there are better solutions in regards to the matter of child abuse, clearly if you are not getting thing your way, you are going about things the wrong way and make the incorrect chose of focusing on a single group and or party when you are surrounded by others who have the same issue. Yes, JW children are of high concern granted that anyone can be Evangelized and or convert to become one of Jehovah's Witnesses, for as the saying goes for all in Christendom, we do not know who comes to the church or their intent be it good or bad, however, ALL children should be of a concern and we should not have to single out a faith, or someone of a race in order to go about the issue, in doing so, as my source pointed out, Solider of God, we only create a bigger problem when we give power to those who commit the acts, for it is reasoning like this that allow people like Nathan Larson to have people on his side, it is reasoning like this that support such behavior and thinking it is okay, it is reasoning like this why those for pornography are allowed to have a portrayal of children and cratering to their demographic, it is reasoning like this not educating our children as well as older folk that will lead to issues like this, having the mentally of not having to worry about something that is happening to others and a list of other things. I suggest you take read of this, the both of you: https://www.helpguide.org/articles/abuse/child-abuse-and-neglect.htm https://www.stopitnow.org/sites/default/files/documents/files/prevent_child_sexual_abuse.pdf Because it would seem the one cannot open his eyes properly and the other who perhaps had an even bigger rock on top of him that is perhaps bigger than the ones used for tombs in ancient times. You have to focus on the problem, not masses of persons who have no connection to the problem, the same ones who can be effected too. And like you I said earlier one of these solutions is to educate our children on this matter I made this one bigger for you so that YOU can understand what I have been saying here for months now. And as far as Evo's consider, the one who stopped the protest (ironically joined by a gay man and artist who did speak up), the one who is friends with John Cedars stated the exact same thing only to be attacked by the very people you support clearly and obviously, Srecko. You cannot play on two tables, Srecko, you can only play on one and quite frankly you do even know which table you should be sitting at, but this is not of your concern because you have proven yourself to believe in the undeath teaching, which is not a Christian practice. And clearly if you believe God is okay with the sexual changes done by a man and or woman to their own body, be it due to what they see themselves mentally and physical, how are you in a position to even teach when you believe this? I suggest you ponder on that very notion you profess, I will not do you the favor or linking your own words in an attempt to remove it as you had done last time regarding another discussion that has, gone awry, on your part. Then again any Biblical Fact and or actual source of something goes in one of your ears and out the other and attempting to keep hidden my full response by taking a snippet to tag anything JW related to it was a fail on your part, perhaps this time you read, observe and understand what I convey or go back to the rock that is your dwelling place. The truth has been spoken, do with it as you will to your own liking and take into account these solutions provided by those who deal with Child Abuse and the examples they give, as is with Bible Principles of which you, and I will say, that you asked for. The question you see but try to ignore still stands What is the most important sign that one has to look out for regarding a potential abuser [school setting - church setting - business setting - public space]? The answer itself can be found in the response, Srecko - should you prove yourself to actually have a concern rather than be part of the problem. That being said you take these solutions and go about the problems that right and positive way, but the other stuff, this warpath-sque based mind attitude isn't the way to do it, and even the non-religious can see that too.

Already several steps ahead of you, some bits of it came not just from the article but information from a non-disgruntled one also, in addition to how Restorationist Christians operate. Enjoy

Well the thing is Srecko, I am not talking about JWs, I am talking to you, directly, about Child Abuse and Neglect Prevention services (https://www.childwelfare.gov/topics/preventing/) So Srecko, this question is posed by those who go through the PSA, for after all you what to prove yourself, it should not be this hard to answer since you are also against child abuse. What is the most important sign that one has to look out for regarding a potential abuser [school setting - church setting - business setting - public space]? You are free to answer. And no, this isn't something cryptic, the question addressed is for those who are being trained and or learning the signs of abuse, consider this a basic educational question. You hid under a rock when this organization of prevention was in existence, come on now, Srecko.

@BillyTheKid46 Well there is more, including the ones all 3 of us had mentioned. That being, God raised him up again, having loosed the pangs of death, since it was not possible for him to be held by it. (Acts 2:24). This Jesus God raised up again. (Acts 2:32). You put to death the Prince of life, the one whom God raised from the dead, a fact to which we are witnesses. (Acts 3:15). Jesus Christ the Nazarene, whom you crucified, whom God raised from the dead (Acts 4:10). The God of our fathers raised Jesus, whom you killed by hanging him on a tree. (Acts 5:30). God raised him up on the third day (Acts 10:40). God raised Him from the dead... God has fulfilled this promise to our children in that He raised up Jesus, as it is also written in the second Psalm, "You are My son; Today I have begotten You." He raised him up from the dead, no longer to return to corruption... He whom God raised did not undergo corruption (Acts 13:30-37). His Son, who came to be out the seed of David according to the flesh, fixed son of God in power by the resurrection out of the dead, according to the Spirit of Holiness, Jesus Christ our Lord. (Romans 1:3-4) Those who believe in Him who raised Jesus our Lord from the dead. (Romans 4:24). Therefore we have been buried with him through baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life. (Romans 6:4) But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit which dwells in you. (Romans 8:11). God raised him from the dead. (Romans 10:9). Now God has not only raised the Lord, but will also raise us up through His power. (1 Corinthians 6:14). Moreover we are even found to be false witnesses of God, because we testified against God that He raised Christ, whom He did not raise, if in fact the dead are not raised. (1 Corinthians 15:15). We also believe, therefore we also speak knowing that He who raised the Lord Jesus will raise us also with Jesus. (2 Corinthians 4:13-14). The God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory.... He raised him from the dead and seated him at His right hand in the heavenlies (Ephesians 1:17-20). You turned to God from idols to serve a living and true God, and to wait for His Son from heaven, whom He raised from the dead. (1 Thessalonians 1:10) ...through him are believers in God, who raised him from the dead and gave him glory, so that your faith and hope are in God. (1 Peter 1:21) God the Father, who raised him from the dead. (Galatians 1:1).

The only factor that plays against you is the fact Jesus was/is able to do nothing himself expect the Father who is able to do these things. In the Gospel of John, Jesus insisted that he was not able to do anything from himself. As he himself testified, it was the Father abiding in him who did the works (John 14:10; cf. Matt 12:28; Acts 2:22). Now, to you, if this was true of Jesus while he was alive and well, how much more was he unable to do anything of himself when he was laying dead in a tomb. John 5:30 - I can do nothing on my own. As I hear, I judge, and my judgment is just, because I seek not my own will but the will of him who sent me. The other factor against you in this regard what is said in other verses in Acts and elsewhere, I can think of 16 verses, coupled with references and context, right now. Not to mention they misinterpret what he said, as is done before. So how, according to you does that relate back to Acts 2:24 when Acts 13:2 is not a cross-references to the core passage in of itself? We also should not be leaving out the fact the verse professed before states that He who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit which dwells in you. So yes. As for Acts 13:2 it reads: While they were worshiping the Lord and fasting, the Holy Spirit said, “Set apart for me Barnabas and Saul for the work to which I have called them.” The Holy Spirit is spoken of many, many times in the Greek Text as it is mentioned here as well, and the focus here is the Christ who has died and has risen, Acts 13:2 focuses on such ones ministering for God. The references for this verse points to Ac 9:15 and 1 Timothy 2:7, even while outlined nothing points back in references to Jesus being risen from the tomb.

Child Abuse and Neglect Prevention services (https://www.childwelfare.gov/topics/preventing/) instruct even made PSA, where have you been Srecko, under a rock for all these years? And no, never made any mention of using Bible Principles, I simply spoke of better solutions to combat the issue that cannot be stopped at all. Srecko if you had "read" the discussion you'd see that. I leave you with one of the questions posed that was given to parents, guardians and or anyone to make note of from a PSA. What is the most important sign that one has to look out for regarding a potential abuser [school setting - church setting - business setting - public space]? You are free to answer.

You make claims of people pretending yet you do not back up such claims with proof. You made claim new comer has no ability to forgive of a situation you were totally unaware of that took place last year, which was true. You make claim that I pretend to be knowledgeable when I ask for proof, twice now you have not brought such forth - therefore unfounded. One thing I can say to you is no one pretends to be knowledgeable, that is both silly and absurd.

It was professed that it was God who raised Jesus from the Dead, as well as God making him both the Lord and Christ. The verse conveys that the Father raised Jesus from the dead. Jesus was the Father's Word and the Father spoke decisively when He raised Jesus from the dead. When Jesus answered them, “Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up and we can see the reaction and action from the Jews taken after this was said. The facts show us that his body was the Temple of God; the Word tabernacled in human flesh and that flesh was the Father's Temple. He, this body of flesh, was the Father's Word and he spoke the words of the Father, as we are well aware of regarding the Old and New Testament and by means of whom Jesus came from. And clearly this did not sit well with the Jews and they plot to kill him. Matthew 26:59-61, 27:39, 40 and Mark 14:57, 58 are also references. You technically answered yourself with this one granted that Romans 8:11 points back to Acts 2:24 and in addition to the other references being Ephesians 2:1, 5. For indeed, God was the one responsible for taking the Lord out of the pangs of Death.

Indeed we do, but one of us is able to see what is going on with today's society while the other does not allow himself to see what is going on in the world. You sure? This has been discussed. You have to ask yourself, if JWs believe only them are to be saved, and them alone, who on God's earth would they be preaching the gospel to begin with? Restorationist as a whole believe that only those who apply the true teachings of Bible can benefit from salvation, and as far as anyone's study in Christology, we know who speaks such and who does not. Any man who has been against God and or other will be subjected to God's Judgement, those who strive to do things for God and apply the teachings of the church, the righteous and the meek will have that chance to benefit from God's promise and what his accomplishment entails. I made my reasons very clear to you but like you said, you laugh, and through yourself laughing you do not take into anything that is said to you. I study the Christology of others, and this is clear to you as it is because I corrected you not only about JWs, but of Islam and a list of other things. I study religion because I do not want to be like the mainstream ones who take up a word without study and profess a falsehood as a truth, therefore, all the silly ideologies and tactics I do not abide by and not even my own culture would allow me to do such. That being said, not even the apostolic church believed only them will be said granted they spoke of their own, for that would defeat the purpose of why the Great Commission even exist. What I dislike is when people speak of falsehood and conspiracy of others, the very reason I am on the defense, as with the defense of anything pertaining to the early church or the holy spirit among other things. What I love about Biblical Hermeneutics is it allows you to study and understand interpretations and the study of religion to some degree, understanding Christology and a list of other things, but surely someone such as yourself would not care to give Theological studies a chance when you yourself confused a Strong for an English word. My choice is to defend against anything No, do not add on to my words although the influence of Mr. Gardner shows, clearly you are not Mr. Gardner, the one of whom you made known, the one of whom you gave link to support. The ones that are trying to cease a religion are of the other groups and their heads, the same ones that took action last year on this very day. You have to wake up to reality Mr. Butler, regardless of whom, even the Jehovah's Witnesses, such things that came at the price of sin cannot cease 100%. No one can really do anything about it expect stop small instances of such in addition to educating our youth, the better solutions. Even in the ancient times among God's people there were those who were not in the right, this goes hand in hand with the students of the apostles themselves. God's people and or religion are to be careful because as as the example I posed before, there is good people and there is bad people, just as there are true and false Christians in around the world, those who are doing things accordingly and those who are not. And unlike you, I believe 100% that God will get rid of all problems that came from sin because I believe in Him and his Son and the promise of his kingdom, I believe that all things that give us pain, that hinders us, both you and me, will be gone for good, but to lack the lack in belief of God being the one to making things right - in you - shows. I need not to be careful because put into application of what it means and what it takes to be like a Berean, to put into application discernment, the question is, are you? Know this, for even those who claim they believe will not even succeed in the end if they do not do things accordingly, keep this in mind. On the contrary to your unfortunate surprise, it is true. They were at 8.23-8.3 adherents and have gone up to 8.45 as of late, 8.5 adherents. I made mention to this to JTR a while back, for the increase was within a span of months, as with in total the 20 million in conjunction with them. They haven't pushed these numbers up falsely (No Christians, true or false, make lies about demographics, ever, ironically enough even the crazy mega churches) - do not make a claim to something of which you cannot prove to be true, granted that not only the JWs made this known, but other Christians who count adherents, therefore these numbers are legit. Children are capable of preaching and professing - you are speaking to one who has been professing since the age of 6 once the biblical knowledge had been applied. As long as a child as the ability to read and take in knowledge, they can preach the gospel themselves and or minister, which was the case of with Jesus when he was younger when he spoke to the priests of the Temple who can spoke with him, and the very fact all Jews who can speak must obverse Shema Yisrael, and knowing the Old Testament, as Jesus had. No one in Christendom or of Islam (Shia/Sunni) make up lies about their demographic, so do not make claims you cannot cash when some people actually pay attention to such things. You spoke of tricks before - clearly this trick has been seen when the evidence stacks up against you, Mr. Butler. You can seek out the Demographics here if you want: http://www.pewresearch.org/

Lots and lots of slaves. And the working conditions must have been brutal.

@Anna And even if you profess the truth, Trinitarians still remain in denial and go about mental gymnastics, they make claim to the Trinity when the apostolic church proves them otherwise and the teachings of that church still remains today, that God is Jesus' Father and Jesus is the Son of God.

It is practically true regarding conspiracy. True, but some former JWs are not like their atheist and or disgruntled counterparts, these same ones even defend their former faith, even speaking against conspiracy. This is the same case with other Abrahmic Faiths that follow the earliest teachings.

One cannot clean out a problem that is spread out throughout the world like a plague. You can prevent small instances - yes, but as to he problem itself - no. There are also better ways of doing things, better solutions, but people do not want to take advantage of such, one of these solutions is to educate our children on this matter, for if we can teach a child about Strangers, we can do the same for Child Abuse, for this is recommended by Child Abuse and Neglect Services to teach young ones about this, to see the signs. If the Bible has taught us anything, God does not focus on one man, he focuses on all men, sees their hearts, etc. It is not unknown to anyone that child abuse is within Jehovah's Witnesses, but it is silly to single them out when the problem is all over the place, even in restaurants as of recently. That being said, problems like this will not cease one's faith at all, if that were the cases, a what if perhaps, kids would not be allowed to go to schools, churches, mosques, synagogues, etc. Restaurants would be off limits to ensure child safety therefore it would task a grown adult to go and buy the food and bring it back. And like I said before, even to all denominations regarding Unitarians, even us Biblical Unitarians, child abuse is an issue, it didn't stop me from professing truth and it allowed some of us to wise up and teach our children so they can teach others to see the signs. How are you so sure if you yourself do not judge assume or met them, as you claim? This goes back to your comment of who has God's approval. For he is still a JW, you are not, granted he is one still perhaps he knows way more in regards to what he professes. As with all errors, they must be brought to attention. He didn't mention Jesus, he mentioned Peter, do not add to someone's word, even of God's, there is a verse for that. Thinking stated the following: A lot of us don’t follow the GB...we follow,the scriptures and test it out as the beroeans did....you assume we are all puppets...you give no respect to many brothers and sisters who have stronger faith than yourself.....John you have a big mouth.....I can say that because once I did to....Peter had a big mouth too....but he learnt humility...and eventually I learnt it to....and not from any GB...but from reading the scriptures and allowing them to discipline me and correct me.... Now, Thinking on made that response because of your response towards him, which is to a degree true because whenever it comes with someone who actually has something informative to say it does not sit well with you. The young one who spoke of forgiveness, you who claim you do not assume just assume an ordeal he had last year he was not a person who forgives, you also go on to say he equals ExJWs to gangsters when he was referring to gangsters in the Tri-State area, as per my example of something that was actually a true story. Sometimes you have to see that all JWs are not the same ones you encountered in your original church. And yet previously you say spoke of trick questions, so the question Evo asked proved the point. Those who commit pedophilia do not make up the masses, nor, as per Evo's question, does not make them pedophile lovers. In all institutions,it never began with JWs or solely engulfs them alone. As far as I am concern the grooming gangs do not make up all of you in the UK, just that small pocket of persons who has an intent to do bad to young British girls. The same way for me and others in the US who are of color or an ethnic background, the actions of a black man does not define all of us. In the JWs case, they are 8.5 million and growing, should one commit these acts, it does not define all the other 8.5 million among them. You need to open your eyes because you cannot single out a sole group when the problem is all over and in all forms of society even the government i.e. Theresa May who had her hands tied before regarding children, but not of sex abuse. Yes they do know, but at the same time, there are people going about, even combating the problem in the best way, not going on a warpath to cease a faith from existence. There has been a few in the UK, some of these protesters also stem into the Robinson party, anti-Islam and a list of other things. A problem with some of these protests is they are also quick to spread conspiracy as well, and I did post some facts about this before, and I thank Jack Ryan who is supposedly an Atheist, for it. God is aware that all types of wickedness is in the world, and clearly Christians know that God himself will be the one to make things right. The same issue you have regarding child abuse as with all people who dealt with it in a similar fashion and t pain it brings, this will be mended on God's Day. If it is a test you speak of, we have to be vigilant and enduring always even in the face of problems. The only reason people join them, and are still growing, is the of the teachings intertwined with their community. Yes some of them will have conflict and or some thing going on with others in their faith community - as with all of us, but it will not stop one from following their faith no matter how you try to knock it. If you truly believe in God, you would not be oblivious of what he will do to wicked people. A time will indeed come, but as for us, we have to be smart about all things, even in regards of child abuse.

It has always spread to other social media sites and on YouTube. I remember a Catholic guy sat down with a JW to speak, a peaceful discussion, however because JW was in the title, everyone who followed Cedars, Gardner, FS and a list of others bombarded the comment section, resulting in the video going private. Another situation is elsewhere during a discussion, they pop up there also, as seen on this link. One can agree/disagree with someone, but to go as far as to incite hatred or infighting is a whole other level. As for that book, people do not understand that God knows who is for him and who is not. They watered down what God will do and confuse his Justice. People do not know that if it things is going to be as bad as Noah's Day, as bad as Sodom and Gormorrah, it will happen. In a sense, they sort of Disney-fied God and Jesus, for Disney is known for taking messed up and brutal stories and making it kid friendly, one cannot do this with the Bible, for over time people will need to learn of what is to come and anyone who takes up the Word of God and his Christ will be saved. I had a discussion with someone else here, who watered down what Jesus would do to the wicked, for if the Son of the True God does the Will of the Father and cannot do a single thing unless the Father tells him, he will do it. God himself said he will get rid of the wicked and will indeed do so through his chosen Christ, his Son, Jesus. But this simple truth they do not want to accept when the Bible even tells them that.

@Outta Here Trinitarians are like dumpster divers when it comes to targeting someone that does not believe in the Trinity, anything to get their giggles by saying in all caps or shout YOU DENY THE DEITY OF THE CHRIST; a dollar for every time I heard that, I'd be a rich man perhaps.

Or this one.... Wait for it.... Acts 2 pretty much tells you God raised Jesus from the Dead, and he made Jesus both Lord and Christ. Trinitarians do not like to go to Acts 1 and 2 at all.

There is a time to be serious and a time to not be serious. For action begets results, be it positive and or negative. That being said, men of war who cause problems were in the wrong to send you to a place you do not want to go, just as they have with Iraq, Libya and a list of other places. These people emulate the same as the one called General Wesley Clark and look at what the sweat of their hands of done to the countries mentioned and the fact now Israel is trigger happy.

Yes, and the one regarding JWs was of Gardner's design and his followers, you even brought it up before. There are countless of protesting in the UK, I know the situation with Tommy Robinson, although he isn't one I adhere to on some cases, for I do not see the actions of one person define a whole group, your government tried to have this man killed in prison by the very people he spoke against, to add more fuel to the fire, this is the same government that let men run free who were part of a grooming gang, a child prostitution ring. That being said, Mr. Gardner isn't someone who is against JWs only, he is against the Bible itself and often mocks Scripture and should anyone say otherwise about the Bible, he bashes them and others follow suit. You think that is crazy, several months ago a Canadian woman was banned from the UK, a Robinson supporter of the same media group, her name is Lauren Southern, alongside Brittany Pettibone. As with all protests, there is also influence, and granted it was mention what is going on in the UK, some things said and done can spark hate crimes. And yet you were not too shy to bring forth Mr. Gardner when at the time I made it known to you as to his card in all of this. Gangsters do not allow JWs to preach in the area. JWs are all over the place, as you said, earthwide, all of them do not live in a good areas as you do, for in the US, there is urban areas, a whole lot of it due to how the government has deprived the people, shutting down businesses and a list of other things. This results in a breeding ground for gangsters, the most common being Bloods, Crips and Latin Kings, all of them in the East Coast, there are several others who have a hold down in the South-East, such as Zoe Pound, Sons of Silence, Latin Syndicate, La Raza Nation, Highwaymen, there is over a dozen - no one, even JWs have no control of gangs taking up an area, for they, as with the community are to be vigilant, even schools for most gang recruitment is done in schools by means of hazing and other things, and eventually an initiation which involves the killing of an innocent person. Well if you are unaware you would not be quick to say to the other guy of comparing you to a gangster. MS-13 is by far the most violent one as of late, if not, even more crazed and, hellishly dangerous. the very reason why when they somehow show up in your area, the police will not help you, even if their presence is brief, therefore, by the instant of a millisecond you will the bystander effect take hold of you because knowing them, you can even tell by looking at them, that they can do very very bad things to you and your family and or anything connected to you. In the example posed, it was an African American JW, a teenager, who does live in a urban area during that time, as of now he does not live there anymore, but he did see gangsters, possibly bloods granted bloods only wear red and will shoot quickly to anyone wearing a solid blue, for blue represents crips. They pimp out young girls to people in order to make money and should you do anything about it, even trying to convince the girl who is hard-pressed that you are attacking her, chances are you would not live seconds later and or live through the night, MS-13 does the same thing but it is a whole different beast on it's own and clearly any JWs, mainly from the Black and Latino communities wouldn't think twice of crossing paths with them. It would be very rare, but some of them will simply mock God and the bible, dare you say something the next place you will end up at is either the nearest hospital in critical condition or simply the morgue. I will link this here so you have some understanding: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MS-13 And one of the recent stories of a mother who played hero to save her girl, but ended up in the cemetery - it is that bad and the very reason as to why the bystander effect kicks in for some, knowingly and or unknowingly. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/donald-trump-ms-13-gang-violence-mother-killed-daughter-memorial-site-a8539381.html The other ones that is most common in the East Coast and Tri-state areas: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloods https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crips https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latin_Kings_(gang) That being said, JWs do not harbor guns in their churches, something of which I made very clear to both Srecko and Witness. And there is a clear exchange between a Christian and an ExJW support of Fearon in the other thread, as with their debate on weddings and rings. Mr. Butler, even in England you have gangs, I already mentioned one to you, The Grooming Gang, which targets solely British girls, primary targets being 16 and under, and members of such a group tend to get a free pass in the UK granted that Tommy Robinson had been arrested and jailed in an attempt to stop them, only this time he was not trying to compare all Muslims are child kidnapping pedophiles, he solely targeted the ones responsible for the Groom Gangs, but his followers began attacking all Muslims at Hyde Park. And it is fairly easy to rally up a mob in the UK, there was a situation in August whereas some Americans, although I dislike them and their antics, were attacked, their father being punched in the face as he ran. All it took was an exchange of insults and influence to rally up a large mob of young teenagers to cause problems spreading hate and perhaps willing to kill if they had the chance, but they wanted to see a fight, for if that was not the case, breaking news would have been on your TV and perhaps the media in the UK will pull it's false flag antics as professed by Robinson, for this does happen a lot over there. The UK isn't too far off from us in the US. You have Sectarian, drug and organized crime gangs, minus the flashy colors. They tend to wield knives and carry acid in the UK, while here it is guns, even assault rifles such as an AK-74, something of which is owned by gangsters in the South-East of the US, for example, Florida. I suggest you be vigilant and always on guard. I can already see you are unaware. You do realize at some point, some time ago that drug gangs were targeting Devon? They consider Devon to be an untapped market for profits - a gold mine. I can assure you that this is not the only thing keeping criminals from entering such an area. London in of itself is a mess, one of my sources spoke about Khan and it isn't too far from the truth in terms of the state of safety in London. That being said, granted you live in the area, make the research and be vigilant, and keep in mind that even confronting such ones can pose a risk to you and others and innocence strangers in connection to you, for every action reaps a positive and or a negative, which in turn reaps consequence. Therefore these gangsters, should not be of any concern if you avoid them. Should you run into them, it would be, in some instances they mock you or give you a nod, do not give into to their advances, this is rare in the US, however a bit common to a community of blacks and latinos compared to non-black/latinos. Granted we are talking about inspired text, best to keep this one in memory. 1 Thessalonians 4:11-18 - [11] and to aspire to live quietly, and to mind your own affairs, and to work with your hands, as we instructed you, [12] so that you may walk properly before outsiders and be dependent on no one. The Coming of the Lord [13] But we do not want you to be uninformed, brothers, about those who are asleep, that you may not grieve as others do who have no hope. [14] For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so, through Jesus, God will bring with him those who have fallen asleep. [15] For this we declare to you by a word from the Lord,[a] that we who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. [16] For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. [17] Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord. [18] Therefore encourage one another with these words. That being said, the Missionary Life regarding Evangelicalism for some Christians is not an easy one, just as it was not easy for the Christ, nor his disciples, nor the people of the church. It applies to us today.

@TrueTomHarley I am aware of who he is because the one who topped the protest last year was a friend of Mr. Cedars. Granted Evo was speaking about the ordeal and it be recognized, that his JW church was the one targeted, granted that was the only JW Church in the Borough of the Passaic County that was interrupted by Gardner and others. The man who stopped it was attacked so badly by ExJws that other ExJws had to speak, even JWs and the non-religious defended the man from Gardner and his followers. Garner and his followers pushed the man to the point that his videos were removed from YouTube that gave vital insight, even what he suggest about going about problems such as child abuse, but clearly, they were not having it. I will quote someone from the video, people like this will do anything and everything, even going as far as to destroy Christianity in order to bring down a single faith. It is one thing to speak against falsehood, but a total warpath to cease out religious faith is crazy. It did get bad to the point whereas people had to cry to Cedars who he himself made known of the other faction of ExJWs who are clearly against him, those being Gardner and FS; Anti-JWs are excluded because they are just atheists and against all religions. This is the only information I can find, granted weeks later from the whole ordeal things were being swept, likes about the one who stopped the protest was also spread: https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/6519041617297408/exjw-responsible-calling-police-warwick-protest-watchtower During that time, I as more focused on ANTIFA, I only got to the whole warwick things when someone in another Christian community spoke about it briefly and mentioned this date 11/5/17.