Space Merchant

I tend to response to each response, so it tends to be this way in discussions. Actually I have and I am pulling the information from Triniarian sources of which I been holding on to for several years now. The Trinity Doctrine's belief. There is no question that the doctrine holds to believing in the one and only True God, but they divide God into 3 distinct person, as you put it The Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God, which are clearly, in this doctrine 3 distinct persons all making up the Triune God, but at the same time, the belief also professes that The Father, Son and or Holy Spirit do not make up the Triune God. I do not go about my own ideas granted that the information came from those who profess the doctrine itself. I have researched what the Trinity is and know that it when it was brought up and who was involved, when both the word and terminology was coined and so forth granted early Christians were primarily Subornationist, something of which I stated several times before, one of which when I had to deal with another Trinitarian who was moving information in his favor. Indeed, James White knows his doctrine, he is also known for brushing over the very thing the Christ professed as a child and a list of other things as seen in his debates. James White is known for sending his own to bully those who knows the truth, he is known to have his own followers mock up conspiracy in Hyde, the dwelling place of Jay Smith and his crew, some of which, are among the extreme side. Other than that, I talked with James White followers (not James White himself, I will probably get that chance soon), who also follow KJV-Onlyist, FLDS, Jay Smith, David Wood, etc. Wood's focus was primarily about manuscript and codex evidence. So what I can ask you, regarding James White, you think it was right in his eyes to brush over the foremost command even saying things of it that it isn't in which people adhere to, which resulted in even other Trintiarians and even Non-Trinitarians to make a response? verses 21-28 is regarding The Lord Redeems Israel. I already know where this is going because I spoke about this before on occasion. You and I am sure some Trinitarians actually claim and or assume the words, "his Redeemer, Yahweh of hosts" means Yahweh's Redeemer is Yahweh of Hosts." Yahweh's Redeemer is then identified as by Trinitarians to be Jesus by an act of their own will and then they declare that Jesus is therefore being identified as "Yahweh of Hosts." The truth of the matter is - the Scriptural facts show that "his Redeemer" is a reference to Israel's Redeemer and Trinitarians are disregarding the contextual facts (with even cross-references that is regarding all in this passage), so we can discuss on that if that is the case. The Lord Redeems Israel outlined Yah's/Jah's, Israel’s Repurchaser (21-23) Restoration done through Cyrus (24-28) [21] Remember these things, O Jacob, and Israel, for you are my servant; I formed you; you are my servant; O Israel, you will not be forgotten by me. [22] I have blotted out your transgressions like a cloud and your sins like mist; return to me, for I have redeemed you. [23] Sing, O heavens, for the Lord has done it; shout, O depths of the earth; break forth into singing, O mountains, O forest, and every tree in it! For the Lord has redeemed Jacob, and will be glorified in Israel. [24] Thus says the Lord, your Redeemer, who formed you from the womb: “I am the Lord, who made all things, who alone stretched out the heavens, who spread out the earth by myself, [25] who frustrates the signs of liars and makes fools of diviners, who turns wise men back and makes their knowledge foolish, [26] who confirms the word of his servant and fulfills the counsel of his messengers, who says of Jerusalem, ‘She shall be inhabited,’ and of the cities of Judah, ‘They shall be built, and I will raise up their ruins’; [27] who says to the deep, ‘Be dry; I will dry up your rivers’; [28] who says of Cyrus, ‘He is my shepherd, and he shall fulfill all my purpose’; saying of Jerusalem, ‘She shall be built,’ and of the temple, ‘Your foundation shall be laid.’” That being said, I am still baffled on the whole something dead raising themselves of which is borderline undeath doctrine, to which that still needs explanation.

@Ann O'Maly Thanks. This discussion though is all over the place even at the CSE.

Israel is trigger happy. They sent in guys posing as women to take out someone they do not like and justify their actions when the latter was in defense, to use such force. One of my sources had been stalked by Israelis when he was going there and leaving the country, which is crazy.

@Outta Here There's this also I had more from my older posts elsewhere, but I'd have to look for them. Also what of hit heel bone also? This also gives people some food for thought in research. This is The heel bone and nail from the Ossuary (chest box) of Yehohanan (Jehohanan in English), a man put to death by means of crucifixion in the 1st century.

And yet when it was coined you were quick to bring up the article that proved nothing of what was stated, moreover, you spoke of demonic inspiration. You had already pointed out the article before, pulling these 2 quotes to which Butler's reaction in agreement of same with Srecko, who in turn also posted this information: Wt. 1964/10/1 - "Those who do not read can hear, for God has on earth today a PROPHETLIKE ORGANIZATION, just as he did in the days of the early Christian congregation." Wt. 972/4/1 - "Of course, it is easy to say that this group acts as a 'prophet' of God. It is another thing to prove it. The only way that this can be done is to review the record. What does it show?" Which came after I stated the following: this is where you are twisting this, they never admit to being inspired prophets, and I am sure all the facts provided to you several times before thus proofs this point. They admit to and made claim to simply being human, as with all of us, us of mankind, we are prone to making nonessential mistakes and errors at times, therefore not being an inspired prophet. They believe that, as a whole, as a community, and over the long term, has the guidance of Holy Spirit, but this does not mean that every step taken, every thought that comes to mind, every word said and or uttered of every member of their church will be perfect in these End Times. Early Christians, who were obviously guided by Holy Spirit, admitted as much about themselves. And yet these it is not unknown to anyone that today's Christians, imperfect as they may be, can profess about prophets who are indeed inspired, such ones like Jeremiah, who was indeed an inspired prophets of God to be far more correct than you, me and even that of Scholars. There is a clear distinction between a prophet who is inspired and a normal prophet. The most obvious different is a prophet who proclaims and ministers, one who is inspired, on the other side of the spectrum, a prophet who proclaims and ministers, who is spirit led. For Prophets such as Jesus, John the Baptist, Paul, even Agabus were all inspired and infallible. Christians today, who are prophets, of any kind are not inspired and are not infallible and such makes up the majority of Non-Trinitarians today, even to our counterparts who are the Jehovah's Witnesses. Us Christians are Spirit led prophets, the ability to spread the gospel truth and the truth about the Messianic Age, for this is something of which he both have in common. An inspired prophet possesses the miraculous gift of prophesy, inspired and infallible utterance and predictions, as proof they are having the Holy Spirit, of which we can see with Elijah and Elisha - you also already mentioned Moses, who is an inspired Prophet who does indeed have the miraculous gifts. For this is 1 of 9 miraculous gifts that is of the spirit, manifestations of the spirit and is indeed infallible as can be read in the Scriptures itself 1 Corinthians 12:8-10, Luke 4:18 and Romans 3:1, 2 for example. A normal, Spirit led Prophet who is clearly not inspired and not infallible have the gifts of the spirit regarding prophesying. It is regarded as dominant, the ability for one to profess in spreading the good news gospel of the Kingdom and the Messianic Age of the coming Christ, such of which gives evidence of the holy spirit's role as seen in Scripture, Matthew 24:14, Luke 4:18, Acts 2:18, 19 and Romans 12:6-8. Such ones with spiritual gifts have that is of what is cultivated, or cultivated gifts as some would say. An inspired prophet's message is inspired, like that of a breathe of God himself, therefore infallible. God is the primary source of the message and the author of the message granted the Word came from him. The written work itself in it's original form is both sacred and inspired. As the verses, 2 Timothy 3:16 - All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, For prophets inspired by God have verbal communication through even that of angels, visions that puts forth God's message to those who hear it, they have dreams or night visions that is seen by them even in their sleep, and can convey a message even by means of a trance, other times through songs of praise that contribute to a prophet receiving communication that is divine (Exodus 9:1; Amos 3:3-8; Jonah 3:1, 2) A prophet that isn't inspired and is not infallible in the message knows isn't the author of anything other than the Bible, they recognize that what they produce is of their own design but remain faithful to the Scriptures in of itself, this includes ALL Bible Translations because none of the translators or transliteratiors are not inspired, the very reason that most, if not all, tend to make revisions after revisions, example like you not knowing (but have used already) what the TR 1245 is and unaware that all translations, even that of JWs, have been revised, thus omitting anything related to the TR 1245, hence my clear view and adherence on Textual Criticism. A not inspired prophet, or in this case, a normal prophet is encouraged by God's Word, if not, even moved by it. They show and express a genuine love for God and are moved to take action, just as those of old and our church fathers have. They are guided by God by means of influence and thinking, and our speech as with actions by means of the power of His Spirit and His Word, as can be evident by Matthew 13:11, 24:14. This was answered elsewhere and I will quote what was said about this, as the quote states: It is not being of narrow minded, a narrow minded person will profess God sent Satan to the Egyptians, a person who does the research and understand the situation will never profess such a claim, let alone who who remains unaware of God's Purpose and Will, let alone what his own Son commissioned to Christians to follow. The truth of the matter is they never claimed to be an inspired prophet and anyone who does the research can see that and it has been said, by them since the early 1880s. That being said, I am well aware of who the False Prophets represent, who is of Babylon the Great granted I have been researching this for the longest time, what happened in various parts of the US and the World, I am aware of Lucis Trust and a list of other things that has been on a crusade of some sort to dismantle Christianity, of which is evident today. I am also aware of the E.I.I. the real enemy to me, to you, to John and even the JWs; and the difference between you and me is I do not take up conspiracy as truth, something you have been refuted on before. If they are indeed lead to darkness and death, what of the current Jehovah's Witnesses here? Same community, same faith does not equate to all of them being 100% the same. you have some in the US that differ from each other, other elsewhere in France who differ, vice versa for other parts of the world. Every and each of them have what makes them happy, what makes them sad, even angry, what they like/dislike, what problems they have, what issues they have with themselves and or others, even shortcomings, the list goes on. Clearly none of them are shrouded in darkness, clearly none of them are advocates of death, for if they were, they clearly would not be here right now. And to subject a whole group, to demonize and attack them for what their community is all about due to the actions of a single person or a few is absurd, and you know that is right but you profess to the notion anyway. My only issue is conspiracy and falsehood, at least next time do not make things one sided and take information from both sides which leads you to what is true and what is false, and in this case, no claim of being an inspired prophets has ever been made by them, no claim of inspiration has never been made by any current Restorationist who understand their apostolic roots, no Non-Trinitarian has ever and will never make the claim of being an inspired prophet - at all. Christians are like prophets even act as prophets. But they are not inspired prophets like examples we see in the Bible. The irony here is other sources are capable to make known, even recognize the differences in a Prophet who is inspired and infallible and a Prophet who is not inspired and not infallible. I had already mention the 1972 response from you and Srecko. Most people, including you, who is trying to attack the Jehovah's Witnesses and profess to claim that you follow of them being false prophet will often use the April 1,1972 book by them, and they, indulging you, as it as proof regarding a prophet who is inspired and infallible. This is chosen because, in spite of a number of things, even in the face of evidence, it is the only one such ones like yourself they can find where it seems to say that Jehovah's Witnesses consider themselves as inspired prophets. But like I said before, they never made the claim at all, for if they had indeed made the claim clearly the response would have been different, but in reality, what I say to you is the truth of the mater and unlike you I am not weaving things as you have done now and before. Further evidence even tells you that in the 1880s-1890s that they, and I quote [We have not the gift of prophecy] and [Nor would we have our writings reverenced or regarded as infallible] Which is both indeed true because today's Christians are not like inspired and infallible prophets of old, moreover, the only thing inspired when it comes to the message is God's Word, spoken through the bible, and the Bible was just a translation of God's message, but God's Word is sacred and infallible. An even older claim, 1870s [We do not object to changing our opinions on any subject, or discarding former applications of prophecy, or any other scripture, when we see a good reason for the change,—in fact, it is important that we should be willing to unlearn errors and mere traditions, as to learn truth.... It is our duty to "prove all things."—by the unerring Word,—"and hold fast to that which is good] But as we can see, again I profess, that they never really claim to be an inspired prophet, to add more fuel to the fire, that article from their book does not bring forth claim of an inspired prophet, but rather, what Christians consider themselves to day, just simply prophets who profess the gospel and speak of coming End Times and Tribulations, as with the Messianic Age. Another factor is those who are also neutral with the Watchtower and understand the history of other faiths, including the one professed by the Watchtower even make this known: http://pastorrussell.blogspot.com/2009/02/no-claim-of-inspiration.html http://pastorrussell.blogspot.com/2008/07/seeing-onself-as-victim-denied.html Do not add a quote into the text you are speaking about, for if you have, do so in a separate response after mentioning the verse, otherwise this is a total disrespect to the verse of which you are conveying, and it falls under Deuteronomy 4:2 regarding adding to God's Word. The verse says this Jeremiah 5:31 - the prophets prophesy falsely, and the priests rule at their direction; my people love to have it so, but what will you do when the end comes? It is a cross-references to Jeremiah 14:14, Lamentations 2:14; Ezekiel 13:6 Isaiah, 30:10 and John 3:19. A prophet, Christians today profess the good news gospel, they profess the Messianic Age and they give warning of God's Day being near. Such ones are spirit led and they take example of actual inspired and infallible prophets of old, and they recognize that they, today themselves, are not inspired and infallible and would never make that claim to be such. A false prophet will speak of such ones as them claiming to be inspired, to which they are not, reasons so because they seek to slander someone, even call them demonic. They will go above and beyond when there is unfounded prophet of their claim. A honest and reasonable man will see for themselves what is being spoken of as either true or false. For just like in Prophet Jeremiah’s day, many people chose to remain to do things that is not of God while others do the opposite. For such ones they love slander and dishonesty, as with anything brazen under the sun, something of which that is not different in our day. So who is the slanderer in this sense in this claim of inspired prophet claims - you or them? Then what is it that is stopping you from understanding a prophet who is not inspired and not infallible compared to a prophet who is inspired and infallible? By definition, you yourself is also a Prophet, clearly not inspired, clearly not infallible, this also goes for all JWs, even to us Biblical Unitarians. Non-Trinitarians are not inspired nor are they infallible nor are they ignorant of the holy spirit because know what it means to be spirit led, they know what the spiritual gifts entail regarding a prophet, be it a sole person or those who make up a group. And this claim of yours, demonic spirit one should not be too quick to call someone of demonic influence. Understand the difference next time, and I did see where you pulled that information, the same source that is making claim to an inspired prophet when evidence shows this isn't the case.

Pretty much Restorationism to the roots. You learn and apply just as the church has done in the past.

I think the guy was tarred and feathered, be it him or someone else, another male, one of which got a part of reproductive organ removed. Trying to keep it PG here, but what I am referring to starts with a "T". An angry mob burned over 2,500 JW churches, elsewhere 1,500 JWs attacked in 300 communities, others being ran out of town with an infamous quote "They're traitors; the Supreme Court says so. Ain't you heard?" Shawn Francis Peters Judging Jehovah’s Witnesses: Religious Persecution and the Dawn of Rights Revolution (Lawrence, Kansas: University Press of Kansas, 2000) pg.84.

@Srecko Sostar Nothing of which you posted even states the claim of inspired prophet. The constant flailing coupled with the rehashing of what was already posted does not do much in your favor. Therefore, the claim of inspired prophet remains unfounded. You wouldn't catch a Non-Trinitarian say they are an inspired prophet anywhere. Also it shows you clearly do not know the difference between a prophet and an inspired prophet - that is rather telling. That alone tells you were you sit in regards to Spiritual Wisdom.

This is tragic. This is coming from someone who got into Spider-man and X-Men when I first came to America as a child. The concern also prior to his death, there was talk about mistreatment and a woman trying to get money from him back in April I believe regarding sexual assault. The man has already had issues with his greedy daughter and a list of other things, but what kept him going was his fans.

Just an FYI, not sure if anyone is aware that Facebook went down sometime ago prior to the situation with Israel.

The Caravan consist of other immigrants so not only Mexicans. On the other side of the spectrum, Trump was to send out military force to deal with them should they get near.

And that is the problem. I told witness before as to you cannot twist one's words to make it seem they make the claim of inspired prophets, and when asked, he did not deliver, to Butler, he did not deliver, to Srecko, he did not deliver. So the problem now is this whole inspired prophet claim was built on lies, granted that no credible claim has been made by the WT, nor as it ever been made since their early days as Bible Students. To add more fuel to the fire, the claim of inspired prophet is very unlikely to be called by Non-Trinitarians. So this alone should tell you, why would one commit to claim when it is clear slander? Anyone can claim to be a prophet of a prophet-like community, but no one would give claim to being or is one of inspired prophets - not even Muslims would play that card.

The quote is of this website: https://www.biblicalarchaeology.org/daily/biblical-topics/crucifixion/jesus-and-the-cross/ Some of which has been posted is presented by several so far. What it refers to is this: See George Willard Benson, The Cross: Its History and Symbolism. An Account of the Symbol More Universal in Its Use and More Important in Its Significance Than Any Other in the World (Buffalo: George Willard Benson, 1934), pp. 28–29; for another opinion, see Bruce W. Longenecker, The Cross Before Constantine: The Early Life of a Christian Symbol (Minneapolis: Fortress Press, 2015), p. 11.

I am a Biblical Unitarian, be more specific. If someone speaks in error of someone else's Christology, I will correct them, nothing more. I asked all of you for an actual claim of which you profess to be true, if you know of it why make it this difficult to bring up such claim? If it does not exist, it should not be noted as true, therefore, what he professes is unfounded.

This just points to the fact that you are in error for saying such persons made a claim of which is unfounded. Keep this in mind, it is unheard of, even alien, for a Anti/Non-Trinitarian to claim being inspired prophets. Their church may be prophet-like and they act as prophets to some degree, but never are they called or act as though inspired prophets like in bible times. The only people who claim to be inspired prophets are those who believe they receive revelation from other sources, some from even angels (check the list of those that had left Restorationism behind) and the Bible speaks against such things as accursed in Galatians 1. So take that into account. Not a fan of biscuits either, but next time if the claim actually exist and someone is asking of you this actual claim - bring it up this time. That being said, they never made such a claim even back in the 1880s.

It is a quote from the source used by Witness, John Butler and Srecko Sostar whereas they are using the first half of the paragraph, showing an obvious disregard for the second half that is a self-refutation of what they are conveying. Granted with what most of them have been saying, they are well aware, the only example I can give is the Arab JW who had debated before due to some Agnostic's involvement a while back. Moreover, the actual threat from Babylon they are aware of, an example would be what went down in a span of a few years to now. That being said we all should be very vigilant and careful of the real enemy, for one seeks security, the other seeks peace, and they want to put all forms of government and religion, even education into one, for you and everyone else here knows that this is indeed a problem. The Persecution is very subtle, mainly with the fact of 2 major factions going at it in the realm of government and politics, for everyone's eyes is on Israel, other than their allies. Well this can already be learned from our Syranic Christian counterparts and what they had adhered. Such is slowly taking place in the US and the decline of Christendom is evident, but not as violent and or outlandishly bloody compared to most. Until the end times and tribulations increases, we are to endure, remain vigilant, be aware, be careful of whom is actually on our side and who isn't.

I'm asking you for a claim on their word - not mental gymnastics. Example would be, everyone knows the Jehovah's Witnesses/Watchtower have stated, even made claim to say that they are the one true religion, and anyone can bring up them quoting this claim. I am asking you for the claim of inspired prophets, but you are tap dancing around what is being asked and the sheer unawareness of a prophet and inspired prophet differences. But here we see I am asking you for bread, but you continue to hand over to me biscuits, and clearly I rather have bread, even asked you for bread, never once I asked you for biscuits, but that is all you continue to give. To this shall remain unfounded for no Anti-Trinitarian will ever make such a claim, and alas you and Witness show yourself to be fruitless, once again. Perhaps next time use something that is actually said for - it did not stop you before.

An advocate for the Interfaith? Not real Christian would be, scratch that, no real Christian would never, ever submit to the Interfaith Institute of Elijah and those in connection with Lucis Trust.

@Srecko Sostar I ask you and Witness again - where is the claim of inspired prophets? Surely if you speak of them as though they had said such a thing, you'd have information about this. So take this account of which the both of you had been put to task about because as of right now, we can see no claim of inspired prophets, anywhere, whatsoever. And by means of Christendom history regarding anti-Trinitarians. I rather not drop a bombshell of critical information of a prophet and an inspired prophet on the both of you because it will end up like the other discussion of the both of you openly accepting Traditions of Men, for last time the both of you were not too happy of actual Biblical Facts. I'd like to add that Prophet-Like is a direct refers to their religious organization (as stated by them the one true religion claim, which there is evidence of), and that same paragraph even tells you this, as with more evidence of them not being inspired prophets noted in other half of the paragraph, may I ask, why is it that both you and Witness cut this out, Butler too? He designates these Christians as his “faithful and discreet slave.” (Matt. 24:45-47) This “slave” group is strictly commanded: “Do not treat prophesyings with contempt.” (1 Thess. 5:20) This has proved true of Jehovah’s anointed witnesses on earth. They pay attention to prophecy with the greatest respectfulness. They have corrected themselves when prophecy revealed their own shortcomings. They have not held back when prophecy has condemned practices followed even in Christendom. (Isa. 58:1) Yes, they have proclaimed the prophecies written in God’s Word even though this has brought world hatred toward them.—Matt. 24:9. Until then, the claim of inspired prophet is unfounded. You can belittle a child with trickery, but not someone who can discern and or can further into the information than most.

I am referring to when the cross not even being considered in the church of Christendom until the days of Constantine whereas he himself during the Battle of the Milvian Bridge had a vision, had seen a cross in the sky. It is said that the vision was instructing him to fight in the name of Christ, with his soldiers’ shields bearing the symbol of Christ. On the other side of the spectrum, the writer Eusebius, an apologist of Constantine, described the event in the Life of Constantine, which he wrote after Constantine’s death. Eusebius wrote that Constantine saw a vision of a cross rather than the letters of Christ. That he saw with his own eyes the trophy of a cross of light in the heavens, above the sun, and bearing the inscription, which says conquer by this. At the sight of this he himself was struck with amazement, and his whole army also, which followed him on this expedition, and witnessed the miracle, according to Eusebius. There is more information out there, but I'd have to look some more for it.

@Witness They are not of Babylon the Great. If you had paid close attention to everything that went down from the 2000s and what effectively took place in mid 2015s and onward, that alone should tell you something.

It should also be noted of who actually is of Babylon and who is not. There is currently a conquest for peace on the religious aspect while the other, a conquest for security. I figured after the situation with Jayish Al-Islam, people would realized that or what went down in Texas.

Exactly! And all things should be taken into consideration, but it would seem you tell this one time, or maybe two times, and it goes out the other ear for some. and their ignorance because blissful and they begin to act immature and foolish when proven wrong.

I think it should be noted that Cross came many, many years after Jesus' death and eventually was taken up as a symbol in regards to Christendom. Granted how old the story of Maryas was, back then a stake or some tree, upright, was most likely used.

@Witness I will ask you a 3rd time. Give me the actual claim that they said they were inspired prophets. I stated before twisting things in your favor does not equate to the claim of which you are accusing them of, I asked for inspired prophets, you bring up prophet-like organization when it is already know most Non-Trinitarians claim they are the True Church, but we have yet to see JWs, or ANY non-Trinitarian make claim to inspiration. So I will ask you, @Srecko Sostar and @JOHN BUTLER You all agree to the claim of which you profess that they inspired prophets, now I ask you, where did they make this claim? And by the way, what you posted has been debunked just as the whole trust funds thing. That being said, the claim of which I am asking you of regarding inspired prophets - I wait for from you - Witness, otherwise you are in deception by your own hand. The fact no Anti-Trinitarian ever made that claim makes you far more than a liar than the doctrine that formed long ago in the Council. Indeed, the next time you feel the need to mix, twist Strong's in your favor, perhaps do so to someone who does not know that information, let alone you making the assuming somehow God sent Satan to deal with Egyptians or trying to justify your belief in Man's Doctrine rather than God.