Thinking

You make me sick...you have shown your real core to everyone here....a man puts up what could be his eulogy to all..and you post up something to promote your belief...you try to score a point....you are ruthless and cruel..and so are some others here....you have shown the whole forum what condition your heart is...How about showing a little common decency..and some respect....you disgust me as a human.. Unbelievable!!!

I feel nothing but sadness over this...I actually feel sick....I don’t know his past as most of you all do here..but I could see that obviously he had been hurt and badly disappointed in things he had witnessed and experienced or heard..that goes on InThe Org. I hope sincerely he does not become brother watchtower ....Because we don’t follow watchtower...no matter what others say....or try to infer on many of us here. I believe he had a genuine heart. I also hope he has left to do as you think he has ...and he isn’t dying !!!. I would also like to point out what Bro. David Splane from the GB said at our Melbourne assembly I can only paraphrase it from memory. (There are brothers and sisters who have been hurt with in the org....and we may have to allow them and put up with ...WILD TALK....from them...it’s part of their healing..). He was mocked a lot and some down right cruel comments thrown his way ....I actually was surprised at how well he took it......I hope he comes back for selfish reasons...but for his sake....he would probably be safer and more content And remain faithful by going into his interior room until the denunciation has passed over.

I am truly saddened by this....I hope you are okay brother and you have been a great encouragement...because even tho you were obviously hurt with in the truth....you never lost your genuine love for your God Jehovah...and you underestimate your faith...faith is easy when it has not been beaten,,,,but to still have faith when you have been beaten and lay wounded.....that’s real faith...and it would be a honour to have served shoulder to shoulder with you. I don’t know what’s going on..but I sincerely hope you are reasonably well....and a huge thank you from me....for being REAL !!!!!!

Thanks I have been able to get hold of them...big read ahead I suppose

Can I ask what your thoughts and summary were of these books as I cannot get them in Australia...

No one can know who is anointed or not...that is between Jehovah and them... It’s one of the reasons you would be a fool to worship the GB...never alone the clear scriptural warnings against it. The organization exists as a tool to get the basic preaching work done....and just as there was a Judas working alongside of the apostles and worked with Jesus....so too there will be a Judas element at the top..... who ever Gods people are...and where ever they are. It Is true what you say...Moses was known when he was born and Jehovah intended to use him in his assignment...but he was still a murderer before he took up that assignment ... Time will sort many of us out......you are actually incredibly self righteous and have marked so many of us...unjustly so.......and you don’t even know that is what you are doing. instead why not try to develop the attitude that Paul had....because only Jesus is going to correct the errors that you see...and that we see also...and the confusions . Keep in mind he was talking to Gods People here...followers of Christ... why do you think it will be any different today? Phillipians 1:15,18 NIV It is true that some preach Christ out of envy and rivalry, but others out of goodwill. The latter do so out of love, knowing that I am put here for the defence of the gospel. the former preach Christ out of selfish ambition not sincerely, supposing that tthey can stir up trouble for me while I am in my chains. BUT WHAT DOES IT MATTER the important thing is that in every way, wether from FALSE motives or TRUE Christ is preached . And because of this I rejoice. Yes and I will continue to rejoice. By The way even sporting organisations have a Governing Body to organise their body of members... And our GB will stand before their God for accountability just as you and I will....or do you not trust Jehovah to be fair and Just?

How does this make any sense to average jws? ............................ Try not to underestimate the Average JWs....many have and are working things out...but they are also working out some things that others here are not... the thing you have to remember....is Jehovah will and always has disciplined his chosen men in authority over his people... 1) Moses ...he was a murderer before he was ever given his assignment....and at nearing the end of their journey...due to such a heavy load upon him and stresses that none of us could bear...he actually became self righteous and proud..and I am imagining that attitude would not have happened over night or just when he walked and stood before the Rock.. all Jehovah told Moses To do was to SPEAK to the rock...but no...Moses first yelled abuse at the people.( I dont really blame him but he was not ordered to do that ) he had no right to do that. And Moses becoming full of himself and his importance ( pride ) he felt HE had to do MORE than what was asked of him. He struck the rock ..not once...but his personal decision and leaning on his own Underderstanding and reasonings...he struck TWICE..because he deemed the stupid people needed that..( do you or have you ever felt that the GB have beaten you with their rod ) ...and then he gathered the miracle to himself by saying .. SHALL WE....As we all know it had nothing to do with him..but everything to do with Jehovah...( he took the glory to himself and ignored Jehovah ) now we all know he was disciplined very harshly later for that but what most miss...and this is a very important point...is Jehovah still expected the People to follow his instructions that he gave to Moses.....he STILL USED the about to be disciplined Moses....and he EXPECTED the people to follow those instructions ...because they never came from Moses but Him. yes Jehovah allowed Mosses to sin...as he did Aaron...as he did King David...and countless others he used.........because there is no human that can rule over or govern his people on this earth..and he knew that all along...he knew whoever takes authoritarian position over his gathered people will commit such grave errors.. yet he still expected the people to stay together......but he expects us to work these things out...to reason on why he allows these things... Moses didn’t trust Jehovah enough to just speak... Jehovahs approach was much more gentle and kind to the Israelites ...take your rod, assemble the people and speak to the rock. Moses was rather bombastic Prideful and harsh and he did it His way... Numbers 20:24 Because you rebelled against MY Command at the waters of Meribah you will not enter into the land for which I have given to the sons of Israel. Imagine that....calling and accusing Moses and Aaron of being Rebels and yet it was Moses and Aaron who accused the people of being rebels ... Numbers 20:10 .....hear now YOU REBELS the point being is Jehovah will always discipline those he allows authority and those who claim to have it.... yet he still loved Moses very much and even after death..Jesus safeguarded his bones .... Until MOSES death he still expected the people to follow his instructions...as his job was still yet to be completed....nobody fled the camp after Moses verbal abuse of them or harsh display of frustration and piety....they stayed...and trusted Jehovah..to handle the situation.. so too today...we must trust that Jehovah knows what he is doing... Soon we will cross over Into that New Land....and as Joshua/ typifying Jesus led the people..into the land flowing with milk and honey........so to will Jesus....lead those who prove faithfull. Yes it’s excruciating at times..but the night is well along...and the day will soon break forth....

@James Thomas Rook Jr. it is one of my greatest laments also....and now it will be done in fear sadly

Yes it’s very very interesting isn’t it ...

James he is the creator of the Law...without him no law....no creation...no mankind... as such he can decide who’s life to end and who’s not to because they are not following his Laws. Thus the lawmaker has the right to take a life without it being classified as murder, You yourself have used many words to ask a question which really as someone pointed out to you... answered yourself...which leaves me laughing at myself for being so crazy to reply to this thread...but it is a question that others have asked so I’ve gleaned from others here on how to help someone who has the same question. Job 37:23 Understanding the Almighty is beyond our reach He is great in Power and he never violates his justice and abundant righteousness. But you already knew all this didn’t you.

They have brother...and it shouldn’t require to much insight to see that...perhaps you may need to rephrase the question

I think I know what your trying to say..but perhaps I’ve got it wrong.... I may very well have this wrong but Jehovah is in actual fact engaged in warfare now. Revelation 12:7then war broke out in heaven and Michael and his angels fought against the dragon and his angels. He was forced Into a state of warfare since Satan rebelled. Joshua 5:13,14 Identifies Michael as his Prince of Jehovah’s army....and also ... when the Israelites came out of Egypt they marched out in Military formation. even when the angel stood guard at the Garden of Eden ..he used a flaming sword ( weapon of war ) to block their re entering warfare carried out by Jehovah is righteous .. warfare carried out by mere man for mans ruler ship over man is not righteous nor condoned by him, he would still consider that murder...as all warfare is governed and caused by his enemy Satan a man slayer And the ruler of the world at this time. He is only tolerating mans warfare or allowing it because it is not his appointed time.... He uses humans as earthly agents to achieve his plan...when it suits him...and that involves warfare at times because Satan is using man to fight his war against Jehovah. Proverbs 16:4,,,Jehovah has made everything work for his purpose even the wicked for the day of disaster. At this present time Satan is the Prince of air and ruler of this world and he has chosen to fight by warfare.....he chose the weapon...not Jehovah . All warfare is murder unless it has been instructed to be carried out via the Chief of His Armies Michael. Jehovah would never condone warfare amongst men,..and from what I have read he would consider all of those deaths a unwarranted evil murder..... I cannot find anything in the scriptures at this stage to suggest otherwise...but by all means if I’m wrong please correct me....it’s a interesting question and it’s deeper than most of us realize. Basically all those Jehovah instructed to be put to the sword were allowed hundreds of years to change and he allowed them to go to the fullness of their error....they had become irredeemable in his eyes...and hurting his people and name and his plan....and they would NEVER change.

Rubbish...leave him alone....he’s brutally honest...yeah at times he might say something that makes you wince a bit...probably because there was an element of truth in his words. jehovahs people down thru time have in the most part been a disappointment to him. 1Cor 10Now I want you to know brothers that our forefathers were all under the cloud and all passed thru the sea and all got baptised into Moses by means of the cloud and of the sea and all ate the same spiritual food and all drank the same spiritual drink. For they used to drink from the same spiritual rock that followed them and that rock meant the Christ.NEVERTHELESS God was not pleased with MOST OF THEM...for they were struck down in the wilderness. you honestly think we are any different to the Israelites of old....we are not! those men who refused to go into the land of Canaan because they felt they appeared as grasshoppers .... were the spiritual leaders of that time...they were not just the little Israelite. today is no different ...we are no different...we think we are but we are not. james has a better grasp on reality than you my brother ....he’s been beaten up...but he is still standing amongst Gods people....so I suggest you leave him alone as he’s very valuable to Jesus...... as valuable as that prostitute that the apostles first looked down on 😉

Well tho I understand your reasoning I don’t agree with it...it would be better for you to stay and be discreet in aiding where you feel the need....just as Jesus said there would always be poor amongst us...I would also like to apologise because I do see active witnesses constantly posting laughs after many people’s comments....that’s just immature and rude...we dont laugh at people on the doors...so we shouldn’t here... but you are going down a wrong track and I know you don’t beleive that...it’s sad..and so unnecessary....but I guess others have tried to help you see this so I’ll leave of now... just imagine if you had been around when there were temple prostitutes....yet Jehovah still used that system and allowed that for a Time being ....

At a circuit assembly the Bethel brother stated that a lot of elders had to learn to yield to each other as many were irritating each other and even leaving congs to attend others....they had to learn to be wronged ..and act with graciousness......for the sake of peace I will yield. ....even tho I’m the lowly older sister ..

You could help by staying....and just being there for ones who are hurting...I’ve heard good solid brothers tell it like it is.....it’s refreshing and up building .....perhaps organization isnt the best word to use ..I dont know when that was introduced....Russell didn’t introduce it ....I think of us as a big worldwide congregation...just like a huge family with all its troubles and problems ..tears and joys and smiles... i remember a brother once drew a line on the board...it started high and as the line travelled across the board it went into a downward spiral ....he said...that was the world.."he then asked us...how do you think Jehovah’s people are travelling.....he then drew a line..above the worlds declining line ....but it to went into a spiral downward...it remained above the worlds spiraling...but we still went down..just at a slower pace to that of the world. it was a sobering thought for all of us.....don’t expect too much from any of us....it really boils down to just you and Jehovah....

I am very sorry to hear this John....I understand your reasoning but I would heavily ask you to consider the examples of Anna the prophetess and Simeon the Preist.....they lived amongst a lot of evil doings at the temple....yet they stayed and carried on with what they knew was required by them from Jehovah... you are missing a lot of genuine love experienced among the brothers and sisters,,,having said that even brothers that give talks from the platform have stated that they are aware the love of the brotherhood Is cooling off.....but there is still a lot to be found... John if you seen the apostles sitting at a table would you not be eager to join them...but would you turn your back on them if you seen Judas sitting there with full knowledge about him...would you turn away from the good men for the sake of one bad man... I wish you the best and I hope one day you can see where you learnt all about Jehovah’s kingdom and the wonderful hope that lies ahead...but you are being tested now...after all John....we serve Jehovah and not the watchtower.... but the watchtower/society is not perfect...we will always have errors and problems because ...well for many reasons.. but try for just a day...to look at the positives that Jehovah has fed us thru them....and be like Simeon and go about your business...

Okay Billy the kid...let me make one thing clear to you...I have not overlooked the massive amount of work the society has done in educating all about this problem...in fact I use it.......you are very self righteous and judgmental...and I can only assume still a bit of a kid...where you and I are different is I listen to these so called disgruntled women....and men.....who have been raped ......I cannot even beleive you made such a clearly chauvinistic comment...but that does show your immaturity..so I’m giving you some leeway to leave your short pants you are wearing and will offer you patience to grow Into long pants ..thus show a bit of emotional maturity... Many are confused and have doubts....we need to speak consolingly to those who have doubts....I can see on this thread there are a lot of troublemakers who will not listen to reason...they are here to cause division and trouble....but you do not help a lot as you come over rather pious...and self righteous......and that’s only gives them fuel brother... I advocate for trying to understand both sides of the coin..but always with Jehovah’s love and compassion...but there does come time where one has To draw a line in the sand With out right trouble makers. you have stated some good points in your comment brother...but you don’t have it all correct either..and nor do I....but at least I know that... Those disgruntled women were once little girls who were raped...and angry men were little boys who were once raped...some over long periods of time... They are in EVERY religion and organization world wide...most don’t even come to the attention of our elders... I Thess 4,,,is good advice,,,for both of us ..so let us both stop continting with this activism.

It is my understanding that they do it privately ...perhaps you could keep your granddaughters by your side at the meetings ...you also have a duty of care...

I think you have misunderstood my question brother...I just dont understand why Brother Jackson advised the Australian Government to make it mandatory in every state to report....why don’t we just do that ourselves..worldwide... I also think we should be allowed to ask such honest question without being accused of engaging in conspiracy theories... I totally back you as far as the great deceiver being at work on the internet..causing divisions and doubts amongs Jehovah’s people...there is no forum on the internet that is safe...

But why do we need the law of the land to tell us to do the right thing?

Pearl has relayed to me personaly that she does not study the Bible as she does not have time..when some one writes to her and asks a question..she sits at the table with pen and paper and writes....she stated she does not even know what she has written a lot of the time...until she reads it. Pearl is a kind woman..but she has been deceived and is promoting teachings inspired of demons... She has built her own Golden calf And has her own following....many of these ex witnesses ...are either disfellowshipped or leave on their own accord...some have been genuinely hurt...others become puffed up with pride and so many become annoited...and have their own beliefs and teachings....and following .. These ones live on forums and visit them all....trying to save witnesses...

Anyone who quotes pearl Doxcey as you have done ..is beyond understandimg the big picture or Jehovah’s plan...sorry but I view you as a true apostate ...end of conversation !

Hey Brother Billie..your way out on this....it is undeniable if you watched the ARC...we as a people were found to have faulty policies...that’s a fact..we were forced to ammend them. Kids suffered because elders did not report or advise them to go to authorities...we tried to handle it in house....because Jehovah’s name was involved...some of these kids were shoved aside by their spiritual elders...come on brother..we have to accept responsibility where we were wrong.... otherwise the Catholic Church can lay it all down on the parents as well... we as a people would not handle cases of abuse as we once did....but back then we did shove it under the carpet in a number of cases. The child suffered...having said that many were handled well as could be...but we dont hear about them. The GB made the Policies brother...and now have amended the policies.. Keep in minds for those who will jump on this as proof we are not his people......the Catholic Church and Anglican Chirch has a percentage of well over 50% ..I forget the actual number but I’ve quoted on the low side....Jehovah witnesses had a ratio of 1% so this needs to be kept in perspective... It was a era of naivety on our parts ..as parents and probably elders as well...it was a different time ....we trusted to much....but then again the apostles didn’t recognize Judas when he was amongst them either...