Patiently waiting for Truth

In school, I studied math. But I refused a textbook because that was not really math, but was a book about math. 
I also studied science. But I refused a textbook because that was not really science, but was a book about science. 
What! Those frauds were trying to indoctrinate me!  But I was too clever for them.
Well....you do have me there.

As i am aware , voting as practice is not strange thing to WT Society. History tells us how voting is common way of bringing decisions and resolving problems. Until today. Elders voting on their meetings. Congregants also voting while making resolutions. So, this is not any different from what world doing. Subjects are different. But many things about "worldly" things are not in opposition to Bible. If, people who leaving in one street or area have to do something for common interest, for example, to build new water system or rebuild old one, and it is needed to collect "information" of how many people are ready to contribute with money, or who are ready to and will sign contract (to vote) for that purpose, you need to use this sort of democratic process - to vote for or against something.
I would say how JW's are not against voting inside WT Society, but are against voting in secular life. Many things exists when decision is needed,have nothing with "politics"(state or political party things), but on other hand all in our life is politic anyway. 
Definition of politic
1: POLITICAL
2: characterized by shrewdness in managing, contriving, or dealing
3: sagacious in promoting a policy
4: shrewdly tactful
In that sense, JW as people who know what is good and how to accomplish this same, are in position to mandatory doing good because they know doing good. If anyone, then, knows the good they ought to do and doesn’t do it, it is sin for them. - James 4. JW not need to go voting for new senator, or president, but will doing good to not be so "indifferent", as they are,  in many other secular things in everyday life.
Yes, you are entitled to have such feelings. BUT Until That Time Comes, you have to care about your garbage, ecology, animals, electricity, new urbanistic planes in your place of living, safety or traffic issues in the street, etc. General standpoint of JW's about this is exactly what you called as ...  indifference. 
We are actively supporting only a future government of God .... and with this sentence you presenting what i try to explain. JW's are not active in supporting ... animal shelters or shelters for beaten woman and sexual abused children, homeless ...and so on.   

Well....you have to think through what you say before you say it. If you say something dumb and present it as accusatory fact, what do you expect?
The guy was a realtor. Do realtors make deals for life? Of course if he was in the midst of a contract, we could expect that contract to be respected—otherwise he could sue whoever broke it for damages.
It is his repeat business that suffered, not his individual contracts, which only last a few weeks, or at most, months.
I have used several realtors in my lifetime. Not one courtroom said I had to keep the same one forever.
There are a great many “ifs” and “seems” in your accusations. Why don’t you nail them down with more certainty before going on the offensive with them?

@JW Insider  Having just put my computer on (11 am UK time) I find i have eleven comments to read through. Your comment here is number one. So if anyone has already answered you I haven't read it yet, and I am just answering on this comment alone  
I see a lot of confusion here, but I'll try my best. 
Quote 'We're never going to get away from leaders who are imperfect and who will, by human nature, tend to ask us to believe 'and act only in a certain way. '   In short you are saying that the GB dictate to the congregants and the congregants are expected to obey. 
However, Quote 'Jesus' instructions to the 7 congregations was never about waiting for a governing body of apostle-like persons to tell them what was true and false teaching. It was the congregation's own responsibility to put to the test anyone who wanted them to be accepted as apostle-like.' 
(Revelation 2:2, 14) . . .and that you put to the test those who say they are apostles, but they are not, and you found them to be liars..
So there you have the GB that tells congregants to do as they are told and to  " believe 'and act only in a certain way. ' "
But Jesus said it was the congregations responsibility to put them to the test.  However if a member of a congregation does put the GB to the test, you and I know exactly what would happen to them. We can see on here what happens to anyone that should dare to say the GB are not the F&DS.  Even though the GB admit that they are not inspired.
And on that point, everyone should note that HUGE difference between our time, and the first century Christian time.
The leaders of first century Christianity WERE Inspired. The leaders, of any religion now are NOT inspired. That makes a huge difference when making any comparison. In fact IMO it takes away all comparison.  It also questions how anyone now would know if they are of the Anointed, if they are not inspired ? but maybe that is for another topic.
  2“The scribes and Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat. 3So practice and observe everything they tell you. 
Well actually Jesus' disciples didn't practice and observe many of those things. Animal sacrifices, circumcision, probably the washing of hands (how many times ?)  etc.   
Quote "We can still follow, even "obey" religious leaders, even when we know they are very imperfect."
But would you honestly want to ? Would you want to go door to door with a message, if in your heart you knew it was not a true message ?  Overlapping generations for instance?   And would not your heart be heavy if you obeyed just to remain 'true and faithful' to your leaders ?  Hence worshipping the GB and its Elders. 
For instance I remember reading on here, and I'm sorry i cannot reference it,  about the GB /Writing Dept / Watchtower, saying it was OK for witnesses to tell lies as it was Spiritual Warfare. It may have been referring to Elders under certain circumstances, but to give the ok to tell lies. I think it was from a Watchtower publication and it looked genuine when i read it. 
"Put not your trust in earthling man (even princes/nobles) in whom no salvation belongs"
Didn't one of the GB make a statement that God trusts the GB so all congregants should trust the GB ?  Oh, I do wish I could find these things to show proof ! 
Anyway I'm sure you can see my quandary, and this is just with this one comment of yours. I have ten more comments to read yet. I need coffee  

@JW Insider  Having just put my computer on (11 am UK time) I find i have eleven comments to read through. Your comment here is number one. So if anyone has already answered you I haven't read it yet, and I am just answering on this comment alone  
I see a lot of confusion here, but I'll try my best. 
Quote 'We're never going to get away from leaders who are imperfect and who will, by human nature, tend to ask us to believe 'and act only in a certain way. '   In short you are saying that the GB dictate to the congregants and the congregants are expected to obey. 
However, Quote 'Jesus' instructions to the 7 congregations was never about waiting for a governing body of apostle-like persons to tell them what was true and false teaching. It was the congregation's own responsibility to put to the test anyone who wanted them to be accepted as apostle-like.' 
(Revelation 2:2, 14) . . .and that you put to the test those who say they are apostles, but they are not, and you found them to be liars..
So there you have the GB that tells congregants to do as they are told and to  " believe 'and act only in a certain way. ' "
But Jesus said it was the congregations responsibility to put them to the test.  However if a member of a congregation does put the GB to the test, you and I know exactly what would happen to them. We can see on here what happens to anyone that should dare to say the GB are not the F&DS.  Even though the GB admit that they are not inspired.
And on that point, everyone should note that HUGE difference between our time, and the first century Christian time.
The leaders of first century Christianity WERE Inspired. The leaders, of any religion now are NOT inspired. That makes a huge difference when making any comparison. In fact IMO it takes away all comparison.  It also questions how anyone now would know if they are of the Anointed, if they are not inspired ? but maybe that is for another topic.
  2“The scribes and Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat. 3So practice and observe everything they tell you. 
Well actually Jesus' disciples didn't practice and observe many of those things. Animal sacrifices, circumcision, probably the washing of hands (how many times ?)  etc.   
Quote "We can still follow, even "obey" religious leaders, even when we know they are very imperfect."
But would you honestly want to ? Would you want to go door to door with a message, if in your heart you knew it was not a true message ?  Overlapping generations for instance?   And would not your heart be heavy if you obeyed just to remain 'true and faithful' to your leaders ?  Hence worshipping the GB and its Elders. 
For instance I remember reading on here, and I'm sorry i cannot reference it,  about the GB /Writing Dept / Watchtower, saying it was OK for witnesses to tell lies as it was Spiritual Warfare. It may have been referring to Elders under certain circumstances, but to give the ok to tell lies. I think it was from a Watchtower publication and it looked genuine when i read it. 
"Put not your trust in earthling man (even princes/nobles) in whom no salvation belongs"
Didn't one of the GB make a statement that God trusts the GB so all congregants should trust the GB ?  Oh, I do wish I could find these things to show proof ! 
Anyway I'm sure you can see my quandary, and this is just with this one comment of yours. I have ten more comments to read yet. I need coffee  

@Arauna  Quote " I find most Americans (not all) myopic and inward looking and entitled "
Myopic is an adjective meaning shortsighted in every sense. Whether you need glasses or a new attitude, if you can't see the forest for the trees, you're myopic.   Governing Body = Americans = myopic.  7 of the 8 are American.   You have travelled the world.  Quote "What I learnt in my travels is that 'cultures' give people certain values that they cling to "    So it may be that the GB 'cling to a culture and certain values' of America.    Why then do they not have a Governing Body with members from many countries ?  That way they could understand 'cultures' and 'certain values' of different peoples. I would presume there are many Anointed ones in many different countries that are equal in spirituality to the GB. Unfortunately the GB do not seem to think so, as they seem to tell the Anointed not to contact each other.    You say about yourself "I am a natural rebel, could never follow rules and still hate rules."    You say about me "I have a feeling that you would view any instruction as a dictatorship."     I find this very amusing   I also find your constant mentioning of 'morality' very funny, considering the state of the JW Org regarding child sexual abuse earth wide.    Quote "Do you view the instructions from Jehovah as a dictatorship? Especially on the laws he views as something we cannot compromise  on? "    Tell that to the GB lawyers in their court cases.    James 1 v 27  The form of worship that is clean and undefiled from the standpoint of our God and Father is this: to look after orphans and widows in their tribulation,i and to keep oneself without spot from the world. Judge the GB and the JW Org on that scripture not as @Anna does , by comparing it to the Pope and the Catholic church.      

You didn’t read it right.
Of course. When I was in business, I always made legal contracts with my customers that they remain customers no matter what. I made it illegal for them to take their business elsewhere.

Yes, it is a man made rule, but based at least in part on scriptural principles. Also these are man-made rules coming from those who should be in a better position to see a wider set of statistics and experiences as they get reports from all around the world. Elders are sometimes called "epi-skopos" in Greek, meaning overseers. When we consider those who literally watch over a flock closely, we might expect them to count the number of sick, the number who die, the number eaten, the number of sheep in various categories: mottled, speckled, young, old, male, female. They also know the dangers of taking them through "Wolf Ravine" or making them wade through "Poison Water River." Similarly, if the elders working at headquarters got 100 reports of divorces right after holding an international convention in Las Vegas or Amsterdam, but no reports of divorces every time they held the same size international conventions in Helsinki or Reykjavík, I think it would be a wise man-made rule not to schedule international conventions in Las Vegas or Amsterdam. Not all traditions make the word of God void.
The WTS had a program to pay for Law School for selected individuals already working full time at Bethel or other full time service who showed promise or aptitude for such. This program was dropped, and you can be sure that there those at HQ who were counting the cost, much like those shepherd counting the survivors of "Wolf Ravine." They reverted back the previous system of using volunteers who had finished Law School before becoming Witnesses.
Age 17.
But all scores that count are measured at the end of Junior year, not Senior year of American High School. Therefore it requires a conscious choice to pick the maximum number of advanced placement classes which could result in the best choices and scholarships and would therefore be a path chosen by age 15 or 16 at the latest.
Local papers print up the bio given by a Guidance Counselor office of each high school reporting on the scores of their "Valedictorians" and those who are accepted by certain colleges.
Asked and answered in a prior post.
So far, I believe well more than half of the GB says.   
I believe that since WE, if we hope to be noble-minded individuals, are responsible to search the Scriptures and see whether these things are so, then this must be WE not only THEM. And there are many ways to tell someone about the Kingdom hope, the paradise, the resurrection, God's purpose, God's government, and why it's got to be a sight better than what we are putting up with now. Sometimes the CLAM workbook is spot on, sometimes it doesn't fit my style at all.

Oh. I see. That perception is incorrect, though. Sample presentations are included, but they are but a small part of what is contained in the workbook. The workbook is simply the program for the upcoming meeting, making it possible to prepare for it. Any meeting of any sort  is better if you can prepare for it.
The segment you refer to runs about 15 minutes in an overall meeting of nearly two hours.
I haven’t used one of the sample presentations in ages. For the most part, I don’t like them. They are presented as a form of coaching. Door-to-door preaching is not the easiest thing in the world, you know. Try it yourself and let me know what you think. 

Interesting that people will say the GB will not become like the Pharisees who tried to interpret more than the written word of God... I'm sure you have not read the Secret book of the elders "The Shepherd Book" that secret book itself is a proof how far they gone from the word of God.

Agreed, but they are not cowards to go up against a powerful machine as a government.  Many people in Germany hated the Nazis but went along with the propaganda and went to war because they were the true sheep/cowards and were afraid to face prison. 

I do believer the Workbook is the item used at mid-week meetings, when telling the congregants exactly what they should be preaching. And as I had mentioned that congregants were told what to preach i thought it right to reference the Workbook. 

Where never is heard a discouraging word
and the skys are not cloudy all day.    
He’s just getting started. See comment on the other thread:
“Come, come. This is not a gentlemans’ club. The only gentleman here is @JW Insider, who astounds me with his civility, even in the face of downright hostile comments. I confess that I sometimes wonder if I should try to emulate him more.
His civility does him no good, however. Malcontents take his civility and beat him over the head with it. But he is of the sort who believes that theocracy dies in darkness, and I think their response does not matter to him,
It is a little mean, I will concede the point. And I have no problem apologizing. Still, when you take the stage to level the most outlandish accusations, ill-informed except for from the playbook of other opponents, you cannot cry if someone pointedly takes exception to your shooting from the hip.
Furthermore, my place is enshrined here by none other than @The Librarian herself (that old hen). It was her idea—not mine—to put me on a thread entitled TrueTom vs the Apostates. I protested. I didn’t want the job. I don’t go out of my way to pick fights with these characters. My protest fell on deaf ears. So I tackled the job with such ferocity that the entire thread was thrown into the abyss and I had to wear a Scarlet Letter, same as Hester Pryine—mine for “abuse.” (hers for “adultery”)
Two years later the experience proved the germ of an ebook, “TrueTom vs the Apostates!”
https://www.smashwords.com/books/view/917311

Are you kidding? 😀
The real JW forum is in...ahem.... the closed club

This is a spot on characterization here, that's also my opinion.
Something like Aaron making the golden calf because the people told him to make that false idol, just because Moses was taking to long to return. I forget, what happened to those people?

@Anna   To quote you "It is implied by some on here that the GB controls everyone. "  
The GB try to control everyone within the Org, but as you say there are 'rebels'. (Moses used a similar word).
It would seem to me, though only my opinion, that there are many so called JW's, that are physically in, but mentally/ spiritually out, of the Org. Or at least not in agreement with the GB on many issues. 

It’s true. If I am asked a question in service, like, “Who is God?” I will say, “Hold that thought while I check in with my masters.” I dial them on my cell phone.
I used to dial them on my smart phone, but they took it. They said I shouldn’t go thinking myself smart. Only they are.

Look Arauna, for example, we can talk about general population of people who belong to Catholic church, "just for the sake of argument" as can be heard on JW TV :)))))).  People as JW can make argumentation how general population of JW know Bible very well, and are able to defend their standpoint much better or absolutely better than some Catholic member. And how in some debate between JW and Catholic, better result would be on JW side.
But from whom JW member received such "knowledge"? From FDS aka GB who lives on WT Society account aka members donation money.
But GB said, and more important showed, how they made many errors in doctrines, and doing that same things today, too. Do JW members acknowledge this same thing - how they (you as group) do not really know the Bible. More than 200 clarification items proving the same, how GB do not know the Bible. Term "clarification" (in WT Society) is replacement, surrogate wording for ignorance.
Well, why would I, or you, be occupied with idea how only Me or You are in position of having best Bible knowledge  in comparison to some other religious group who also think how they know the Bible (better than others)??
 

“Trying to fulfill.”
That hardly sounds delusional to me. Nor does it seem haughty or pretentious. 
If it is not them, who else could it be? (No Facebook pages allowed) (It is not Dilbert, either)

Br. Jackson quote:
"Jesus said that in the last days - and Jehovah's Witnesses believe these are the last  days - there would be a slave, a group of persons who would have responsibility to care for the spiritual food. So in that respect, we view ourselves as trying to fulfill that role".
Whether that view is delusional is subjective 😀
That second video is hilarious @James Thomas Rook Jr.

@JW Insider  No disrespect but you didn't actually answer my questions, unless I'm a bit blind
Quote "The need to step down as an elder if your kids go to college is not enforced consistently,.."
NEED to step down, seems to show a dictated instruction. In my opinion it is a Man Made rule, not a direction from God. I would lump it into the 'traditions of men' category.   What do you think on that ?
Also I asked how old your 'child' was when they went to a college a long way away. Surely if they are of a certain age to make their own decisions then it was out of your hands. And why should the newspapers get knowledge of it ? 
The latter half of you last paragraph made me laugh. Quote " I have a lot of difficulty navigating platform assignments that promote .... " etc,  Um, a tactful way of saying 'I don't believe half of what the GB say but I'll stick with it anyway'   
And the, Quote "on which we might well be right .."  Fact is it's not WE that might well be right, it's following the GB's interpretations. There is no WE. There is only THEM ( at the top) and  congregants (at the bottom) .  And the congregants go out and preach exactly what they are told to preach (Workbook).  
Smiley faces as I'm trying not to be too serious about all this. No offence meant on any of it. 
 

In general, many people don't go to vote. I am not sure but in many countries less than 50% of population that have right to vote doing that. So, all of them will be target for "hate" :)) Perhaps basement would be good place for hide from haters. :))
There is about 22 countries where voting is mandatory.

Well, just shows you can't make people do what you want them to do, people will always do what THEY want to do in the end. The only exception is if they are drugged. It is implied by some on here that the GB controls everyone. Evidently not true 😀

:))) yes, supposed. Because "life saving information" have to come from GB onto worldwide elders and from them to flock. That is legal, legitimate and  official way how  "channel" of communication working and is blessed by god. :))))

This could be true for some. No one was telling me I couldn't go to college, though. Their concern was that it would set a poor example to appoint an elder and then the congregation simultaneously found out I was going to college. But if a congregation needs elders, there is almost no difference in the amount and types of assignments given to ministerial servants. Even as an MS, I had been giving 5 different public talks (3 from the outlines), and was still being invited to give some of them in different congregations every few weeks. I believe I had either the 15 minute "Instruction Talk" or a 15 minute part on the Service Meeting about 3 times a month. And I was not told I had to pioneer, while attending college, but had offered this idea as a way to show that college was a not a full time priority in my life. No one held me to it anyway, as I only could manage pioneering for two more years. In my third year I was offered a great job and started it before graduation.
But still, it's always good counsel to give to anyone who is thinking about college, that they think about their priorities before making a decision. I've given the same counsel to others, but I make sure they still know it's their own choice, and we wish them all the best outcomes.
But then 30 years later, the issue comes up again with my own children. The need to step down as an elder if your kids go to college is not enforced consistently, at least in the United States. When children get large scholarships it can make it more sensible economically to go to a four year college, but it still gives the impression that you are putting economic and material interests ahead of the urgency necessary based on the shortness of the time to the end. The issue of setting a good example is not just for the congregation, but also the fact that you might not even have your own family in "subjection." Of course, kids go to college when they are 18, and I don't believe in "subjection" at this point in their lives. I believe in learning from my kids, and letting myself be subjected to hearing about what they are learning. 
I am not concerned too much about the Society's position on higher education. At this point, the economic benefits are too often a trap due to the high cost and doubtful employment outcomes. And although I'm sure I'd be welcomed to return as an elder, I am happy with all the things that can be done without the title. Also, you might know that I have a lot of difficulty navigating platform assignments that promote shunning, 1914, the sign, the generation, the "presence," and few other things on which we might well be right, but are too dogmatic about. I'm happy to wait until the pendulum swings in the direction of less dogma. Titles are not important.