César Chávez

Yes. I am aware. I'm just surprised, especially after reading and studying and discussing his last two books. I am aware of your stated position about them.
I doubt that his views on chronology are firm. He gives plenty of evidence that he does not really believe they are firm. They are definitely not "established" in the least, except as weak theories he could never honestly defend. About all he ever established is that he was "clever" but incapable of dealing with the necessary issues related to chronology. Even amateurs like myself have had no trouble seeing through the scheme.
😊
Interesting. Perhaps he is in the process of sacrificing his association with Witnesses so that he will be the first non-Witness scholar in history to claim that Jerusalem was destroyed in 607 BCE.
I have another theory as to what he is doing, much less interesting, but in total keeping with the evidence he has already documented about his ego, personality and track record. I'll see if it makes sense after reading his book (tomorrow).

Hi Ann
How are you and I hope you are well. I received from Rolf a free copy of his latest book yesterday morning and I replied to him forthwith with some of my own observations over the last few decades. Like Rolf I share his scholarly endorsement of 607 BCE and the doctrine of the Gentile Times based on Daniel 4 and the Lukan text- Luke 21:24 his now public position certainly adds some validity to the authenticity of the 607 BCE Chronology despite the criticism of current scholarship.
Since our many online discussions of 607 BCE in relation to the chronology and nature of the 'seventy years' of Jeremiah a recent published article adds some weight to our current and traditional interpretation of the 70 years as opposed to view of our many critics. The article is titled 'The Reception of Jeremiah's Prediction of a Seventy-Year Exile' by Steven M Ruse in the Journal Of Biblical Literature, 2018 Vol.137,No.1, pp.107-126. This article is the most recent published article on this subject and has much emphasis on the exilic aspect of the seventy years as opposed to the view of a solely Babylonish servitude or domination of Judah. Enjoy!!!!
scholar JW emeritus

"There was no governing body in the first century CE. Therefore, the present Governing Body has no legacy and should be dissolved." - p. 135.   😲   I know what you're all thinking: 'This is fake news, a hoax. He'd never say that.' But the book is available from his own Awatu Publishers via email for $10 (see Reddit link below). It's was only released a little over a week ago and is a hefty 337 pages long. He relates his long history in the org., that his issues have been brewing over the last 15 years, and what he says gels with what I know from various other sources - some of which are off-grid. While Furuli still believes JWs are the true religion and many core doctrines are correct (including 607!), he blasts the current GB for losing their way, being power- and money-grabbing, amongst other complaints, and he scripturally dismantles the FDS doctrine. He thinks the organization should be restructured so that it is theocratic like in the good old post-1971 days (I'm paraphrasing) rather than hierarchical like the Catholic church (yes, he refers to the Menlo Park court case). He says he approached the GB in the spirit of Matt. 18, and added that,    "The Governing Body received the book, and the members were
informed that if the basic problems discussed in the book could be
settled inside the organization, the book would not be published.
The GB has refused to communicate with me and therefore the
book has been published." - p. 14.   He knows full well what will happen to him which, I guess, will prove his point about the GB being autocratic and beyond questioning or correction.    Did anyone expect this bombshell? I certainly didn't! 😆   Here's the link to the Reddit discussion:    

??   
Your personal opinion only......... and while you are allowed to have a personal opinion , it does not mean it is absolutely correct.  Satan and his demons are also allowed by God to have a personal opinion..... 

@4Jah2me That just shows you do not know US and or international law regarding copyright (I also like to point out that even the non religious who pinned this story know more as well regarding said law). If the material is actually for them, and they can distribute as they see fit, why say otherwise? Therefore using this verse in regards to this shows you have no idea what you are going about, therefore using the verse and or passage out of context. We can also see you are in motion with your own notion and feelings vs. actual fact.
That being said, I am still awaiting for the evidence from your last statement which you claim. Mind you, elsewhere you spoke of deceit and lies, I would quote you too if need be. So if the later claim was indeed a lie, how speak of it as a truth? To use that verse in this regard, was not your deed a wicked one?
Therefore, my statement concerning you is fact and true:
You can hate them til death, but to go about something that is false is, to quote you, deceitful and a lie. At least be honest about something, hence, if the copyright laws said, as seen in this situation, why speak otherwise? The only way one can actually put the faith group to the test if they haven't registered said material, in this case, that would be a win for faith leaks because for the JWs it would be difficult, but the reality is, the content is registered.
Second, most of us know Bible Principles very well, but, not many not the context of said Bible Principles and or Biblical fact, often times, the collective would use THEIR exegesis and emotions in the face of something factual in Scripture, which shows the clear separation between the True and the Mainstream.
It is not the need of money regarding faith leaks, as of how everyone is seeing it, it is regarding material produced by them that is taken, and, some even attested to the idea that said material was stolen.
 
But yes, no different from an Embargo.

It's the material. The material is free to use, however, in some instances, if there is other material that is not public and or made private and soon to be public, then you have a problem, mainly if said information is sensitive and can jeopardize not just the entity, but specific persons, I remember giving you a real in life bloody example that took place in one country.
Said published material is indeed free of charge and use, so that statement of yours is a bit off. The article points out something a tad bit different, Srecko.

According to your standards - not jehovah's .
True Christian's are always cooperative and yielding, even if it means they have to sacrifice something.  You sound asif you were extremely combative........ the same spirit you display here. 

And yet its done on the daily to please the gb. 

Yea, I guess Jesus was also crazy (according to 4jah2me) to let himself die. Loyalty to God and his principles had nothing to do with it..... 

You are a sick lady to say such a thing. 
I'd better stop at that. 

I am glad you noticed this. This is why is choose not to reason with her or her two lackeys......any longer..... the logic and reason is lacking -  nonsensical. 

God has not given any authority to the GB or the rest of the Leaders of the CCJW. Even the GB admit to NOT BEING inspired by God's Holy Spirit, and they admit that they 'err', or deliberately do wrong. 
They used to pretend that Elders were appointed by Holy Spirit, but now they admit that Elders are NOT appointed by Holy spirit. 
The GB have back tracked on many things. They constantly change the 'teachings' through the Watchtower. 
The GB also deliberately 'forget' that the 'Body of Christ' are 'FELLOW SLAVES', and the GB use the Elders to control those FELLOW SLAVES. Those FELLOW SLAVES are told not to meet together and not to have Bible study together.
AND, disgustingly, the GB accuse their FELLOW SLAVES of 'working against the Holy Spirit'. 
You of course serve your GB and are therefore blinded by their trickery and falsehood. Go careful, blind guides is what they are and you will all fall into the pit. You will have no excuse when Judgement arrives. 
 

Not that this relates, or even that anyone will believe it but :- 
Whilst trying to do some research i read an experience online, about a lady householder that was called on by two female JWs. The topic of God's name came up and the householder said that God's name is Yahweh. To cut this shot, the outcome was that the two female JWs accused the householder of not being interested in making God's name known, just because the householder would not accept the name Jehovah as being God's name. 
So, it does show how it affects situations / conversations. The householder may never speak to JWs again. 
 

You females are still deliberately bypassing the point. 
YOUR own Org, said YAHWEH was more likely to be correct. But they don't want to use what is more likely to be correct. So I agree with your Org that Yahweh is more likely to be correct. 
You see, the difference between your outlook and mine is this, You conform to your GB and it's Org and therefore you are given CCJW answers even before you ask questions.
It's a bit like scientists being paid to do research, but the one paying tells the scientists what result they MUST find. So it is in the CCJW, you are allowed to do research, but you MUST come up with the answers that the GB tell you to. 
Whereas I am now in the position of having an open mind and being able to consider all possibilities. I am not restricted to obeying men, not threatened with being shunned or d/fed.  
JW Insider seems to sit on the fence between those two choices, but you ladies seem to just follow the CCJW where ever it leads you. Srecko is a great 'breath of fresh air and life' here, because he has his totally independent viewpoint. 
One thing that is becoming abundantly clearer to me is the fact that the CCJW / W/t Soc' is American. So it seems that JWs, American or not, are very influenced by this American attitude of having to be right. Even if in the 'small print' they admit to being wrong, they still have to push this idea of being right. 
That point has been made so clear by the GB, with the Child Sexual Abuse problems. And it spreads from that into other things. The attitude of JWs on here, being so self righteous and insulting. 
Each of us should use the name for God that we honestly feel is right. If any of you are only using the name you are told to use, then IMO, it shows a lack of personal relationship with God. 
Please remember, i have no hate for any of you, I may feel disappointment but i will have to deal with that, I wish you all well. 
 

@Arauna Keeps going on about 'the slave' .  She means the GB of course. 
But the scriptures say at Matthew 24 v 45 - 51
 “Who really is the faithful and discreet slave whom his master appointed over his domestics, to give them their food at the proper time?z 46  Happy is that slave if his master on coming finds him doing so!a 47  Truly I say to you, he will appoint him over all his belongings.48  “But if ever that evil slave says in his heart, ‘My master is delaying,’b 49  and he starts to beat his fellow slaves and to eat and drink with the confirmed drunkards, 50  the master of that slave will come on a day that he does not expect and in an hour that he does not know,c 51  and he will punish him with the greatest severity and will assign him his place with the hypocrites. There is where his weeping and the gnashing of his teeth will be.   Note there is more that one 'slave' and in fact more than one 'type' of slave.   Arauna along with her Leaders the GB, don't want to think about the others, for obvious reasons.   Arauna start to think about the FELLOW SLAVES. They are more than equal to your GB.         

@Witness & @Srecko Sostar  you have both got me thinking on this now. 
It is very interesting and it will get me re-reading the Greek Scriptures once again but from a different viewpoint. 
However the NWT is what I've been using and now I'm thinking I need a different translation of God's Word. 
The NWT does alter words to suit there own agenda, so a comparison would be nice, but in hard copy. 
I know lots are available to read online but It would be great to get away from this screen and maybe read in the garden. 
 
 

A thank you to my friend above for clarifying the matter so excellently.
Mr Gordon: worked on translating the Dead Sea scrolls and still works on translating ancient Hebrew language on artifacts - old and newly found. It is his passion.
It is logical to me that Hebrew scholars did not bother on research (or only did superficial research ) on the name when their biblical tradition dictates that it is unacceptable to pronounce the name.  So when they recognize the tetragrammaton, they substitute it.
Gordon says that German translators in the 18th century did not do a good job on ancient Hebrew translations due  to Yiddish influence.
Mr Gorden did research on the Yiddish language and found that the German language influenced the pronunciation of the third letter  in the tetragrammaton as well. Since I speak some German and a semitic language, I understood the subtle change immediately.....  I could clearly see the mechanism.  So pronunciations of letters do definitely change over time...
 There are no vowels... this is ..... thumbsuck.  These old scholars used conjecture. In Hebrew and Arabic one reads without vowels.  That is why the language is difficult. They only write down the consonants. Vowels are only put in to assist the reader. 
This is why it is amazing to me  that someone found old manuscripts with the point system actually supplied in them. No-one bothered to check it because they automatically just recognized the tetragrammaton (read only the consonants as they are used to) and did not notice them there.    
I am not here to win an argument or even to get you to accept the name yehovah - the choice is yours. 
By the way, the translation of the Lords prayer  - let your name be "sanctified' is the best possible translation - according to Gordon. 
 

I’m only vaguely recalling it. It seems that Arnold tipped the plane to throw the bad guy perched on the nose off balance after signaling Jamie to hang on. I do this myself when cantankerous householders throw themselves on the hood of my car. Works like a charm.

I "talk" with my brother, Robert, on the telephone about politics .... well.... he talks .... and I listen.
My brother, who lives about 250 miles away, hates Donald Trump with a salivating and spittle, foaming at the mouth passion, and nearly goes into stroke-mode lambasting him, at which time I cannot get a word in edgewise.  After about 45 minutes he slows down, and I can hear his wife in the background telling him to calm down, Robert, calm down, calm down.
Today he called, and I casually mentioned he seems to have a dilemma .....as currently it seems Bernie Sanders, avowed true believer Socialist and Communist, who got married in Moscow, seems to be the front-runner for the Democrat Primaries going on, and may be the Democrat Party Candidate for President of the United States!
I told him ... "Hey Robert ... it looks like you have a choice between Bernie Sanders, and voting for Donald Trump, to keep the USA from going Socialist !"
Even though he was on the phone, I thought I heard the "AAAAAAGGGGGHHHH!," outside my house.
 

They have a weak field of candidates, imo. I can’t imagine how they would expect a Sanders or Warren to take the country, as hostile to business as they are, and given the fact that in a capitalist country outright hostility to business will only go so far. 
Biden looks like he is not doing so hot, and is famous for shooting himself in the foot, anyway. A favorite cartoon of mine—published just after he made some gaffe at the very onset of another Presidential campaign, pictured all the contestants revving their engines at the starting gate, and his car alone was already flaming out. After a brief and maybe longer than usual honeymoon, the press would soon start ridiculing his faux paus almost as much as they do with Trump.
Pete—I just don’t think a man with a husband is going to win the approval of the majority—I could be wrong on that, but it seems too much baggage to carry. Plus, can a guy who has only served as a small-city mayor really have the experience to run the country?
Bloomberg may charge and win acceptance, but then there is the very opposite of what the Democrats try to portray as their capital strength—diversity. The guy is richer than Trump and every bit as white.
My guess, based on early results and admittedly too little background into, is that it will be Klobuchar. 
And I must admit, I find it almost impossible to picture you with a brother who hates Trump. If I had to recalculate when @JW Insider described himself as a nerd, I think I may have to purchase a brand new calculator in your case.

@JW Insider  Thank you for that in depth truthful comment 

JWI wants nothing of the sort.
But if you are going to do one of these things where you go on an attack with false "facts" again, then someone ought to point out at least a couple of them. First of all, you are conflating the Bible Students and the JW's if you think that the cross and crown was a view noticed "since 1950." The cross-and-crown pins were declared to be objectionable as early as 1928. The English Watchtower got rid of the symbol from its covers in 1931. The pin was objectionable because it was religious jewelry associated with Russell and the Bible Students, not because it showed a cross. The WT still taught that Jesus died on a cross up until about 1936.
Remember that the English name for the "Bible Students" still associated with the WTS was changed to Jehovah's Witnesses in 1931. Some Branches with the delay due to language translation lagged behind with the new name "Jehovah's Witnesses" and their redesigned Watchtower covers. (The Branch in Spain still had the cross-and-crown on their tablecloth design until 1932, and their Spanish Watchtower redesigned the covers in 1932.) Recall that in Germany the usual name was still Bibelforscher (Bible Students) from 1933 and beyond, and was used so much in Germany that many people didn't recognize that the Bibleforscher were the same as the Jehovas Zeugen (Jehovah's Witnesses) even after WWII. In fact, many of the Bibelforscher in concentration camps were not Jehovah's Witnesses but were Bible Students no longer associated with Rutherford and the Watchtower Society.
So this cross-and-crown change had nothing to do with the 1950's, even though a bit of confusion might still have occurred in the mind of outsiders about the Bible Student name up until then, as this Watchtower experience shows:
*** w92 6/1 p. 30 After Buchenwald I Found the Truth ***
In 1954, I was visited by two of Jehovah’s Witnesses, and I subscribed to the Awake! magazine. . . . During the discussions that followed, I remembered the Bibelforscher in Buchenwald who were so true to their faith. Only then did I realize that these Bibelforscher and Jehovah’s Witnesses were one and the same people. Thanks to a Bible study, my wife and I took our stand for Jehovah and were baptized in April 1955.
You have made this statement several times, seemingly forgetting that it is the Governing Body who have declared that the Watchtower erred in interpretation of scripture. You are so blinded in your anger against anyone who might admit this simple truth, that you are inadvertently claiming that the GB are opposed to the truth and seeking their own independent understanding. I don't believe they are opposed to the truth, nor do I think they are seeking their own independent understanding.
After 1929, Jehovah's Witnesses (since 1931), not just the Bible Students, believed that Romans 13:1 did not refer to the secular authorities:
*** w50 11/15 p. 442 par. 12 Subjection to the Higher Powers ***
On the clergy interpretation of Romans 13:1 has been based the Roman Catholic doctrine of the “divine right of kings”. Man-made governments since the flood of Noah’s day stem from Nimrod’s government at Babel or Babylon.
Since 1962, Jehovah's Witnesses now understand Romans 13:1 to refer to the man-made governmental authorities. As you have tried before, you try to be slick with your opposition to the truth of such matters, and as usual, it has led you to attempt some wordplay again. You try to divert with your wordplay to make it ambiguous about "why true witnesses understand the authority is God and Christ as inscribed by scripture."
Let's try to keep the facts straight:
*** w96 5/1 pp. 13-14 pars. 12-14 God and Caesar ***
As early as 1886, Charles Taze Russell wrote in the book The Plan of the Ages: “Neither Jesus nor the Apostles interfered with earthly rulers in any way. . . . to offer no resistance to any established law. (Rom. 13:1-7; Matt. 22:21) . . .  This book correctly identified “the higher powers,” or “the superior authorities,” mentioned by the apostle Paul, as human governmental authorities. (Romans 13:1, King James Version) . . . .
In 1929, . . . it was felt that the higher powers must be Jehovah God and Jesus Christ. . . . Looking back, it must be said that this view of things, exalting as it did the supremacy of Jehovah and his Christ, helped God’s people to maintain an uncompromisingly neutral stand throughout this difficult period.
In 1961  . . . the words used not only in Romans chapter 13 but also in such passages as Titus 3:1, 2 and 1 Peter 2:13, 17 made it evident that the term “superior authorities” referred, not to the Supreme Authority, Jehovah, and to his Son, Jesus, but to human governmental authorities. In late 1962, articles were published in The Watchtower that gave an accurate explanation of Romans chapter 13 . . . .
It was correct in 1886, under Russell, until it was changed due to what Rutherford "felt" about it in 1929. Finally in 1962, it was changed back to Russell's correct view so that it was an "accurate explanation" again. So this had very little to do with "Bible Students" as you tried to imply. I was referring to "Jehovah's Witnesses from 1931 to 1962.
Just a side note: For some reason the Watchtower added that "it must be said" that moving from a correct explanation to an inaccurate explanation of Romans 13:1 "helped." This makes one wonder why we no longer need the "help" of an incorrect explanation. Is it because we will no longer need to maintain an uncompromisingly neutral stand throughout any more difficult periods in the future? That can't be the real reason.
The real reason is clear. It was a mistake. We can be humble about it, instead of trying to use weasel words and other ambiguous wordplay to try to avoid being humble. We can't keep trying to give the impression that we avoid honesty to avoid admitting a mistake. It makes us look haughty. It makes us look like we are opposers who oppose the truth.
(Proverbs 12:17) . . .The one who testifies faithfully will tell the truth, But a false witness speaks deceit.
 

In many court cases world wide, the WTB&T Society has represented, under oath, that all Jehovah's Witnesses are ordained ministers, and are therefore clergy.
... even the newly baptized 8 year old girl, who thinks "clergy" is some kind of nasal congestion.

Everyone is equal ........ but some are more equal than others.

TTH:
The First Amendment to the United States Constitution prevents the government from making laws which regulate an establishment of religion, prohibit the free exercise of religion, among other things.
What this means is that if inside any particular religion they want to believe that God is a flying spaghetti monster, and call their people Giraffes, and slaughter goats and bathe in the blood, or play with snakes  ... the government is FORBIDDEN to interfere with that ... unless ... unless it is against public policy, and is a clear and present danger.
The Governing Body has declared that all Jehovah's Witnesses are ORDAINED Ministers of the Gospel ... a practice I believe was started during the Vietnam War to try and get Draft deferments. At least it was in place when I reported to the draft board in 1965 at the Armed Forces Entrance and Examining Station (AFEES), in Richmond Virginia, and a legal theory that I presented to those from my community who interrogated me in the Draft Board conference room with, if memory serves, 12 people whose job it was to classify me as to my Draft status.
I understand what you are saying, TTH and MOST of it is true, but that is COMPLETELY beside the point.
If you claim to be a hippopotamus, and you are RECOGNIZED as an ordained  hippopotamus,  don't be surprised that you are not allowed to book a room at the local Hotel.
Further, if you claim to be a hippopotamus, the by extension, your children are hippos,  you cannot without being a hypocrite deride anyone for looking at you, and looking at your son or daughter, and observing correctly that you are not.
Particularly ... and most importantly, if the culture of your religion has declared that "hippopotamusity" is a "snare and a racket", and that organized herds of hippos are "Babylon the Great", and that their "ordained" leaders are agents of Satan.
As a teenager, and in my early 20's, my best friend growing up used to Pioneer, and he bragged to me that he could go into prisons almost any time he wanted to "minister" to the inmates there by representing himself as "clergy", which I thought was "juking" the system.
Later, he and my first wife ran off together ... but I digress.
The Governing Body has repeatedly represented themselves to Courts as ministers, and to get special legal privileges, by representing themselves as clergy.
BUT ... you and I have read NOTHING about this in any of the Society's publications .. and heard NOTHING about this at the Kingdom Hall or at any Assemblies or Convention .... while at the SAME TIME telling us that the GB and Elders, and Branch people and we ourselves here at the bottom of the food chain ... ARE ALL EQUAL. (Let's all hold hands in a circle, and sing the Pepsi song).
Either we ARE all equal .... or we are NOT.
If we are in reality (gimmee a break!) then the newly baptized 8 year old girl is not only an ordained minister ... but is entitled to the legal privileges of "clergy", because she is in fact a "clergy person"
Either we ARE all equal .... or we are NOT.
THAT is what we have represented as fact ....under sworn oath before God in courts of law ... when  JWs demand the rights of "Clergy".
So ... on one hand we declare inwardly that we are NOT clergy, despicable agents of Satan as they are, perverting the Word of God, but are all equal ordained ministers at the Kingdom Hall ... from the Governing Body, all the way down to the little 8 year old baptized Sister ... and to the courts we declare that we ARE clergy.
Either we ARE all equal .... or we are NOT.
I guarantee that any rank-and-file Jehovah's Witnesses of my generation that heard that would be ashamed, and nauseous at the very idea that we shared legal privileges with the "serpents and vipers".
According to that ... the little 8 year old Sister has the legal right to be privy to people's secrets of every sort, confessed to her, and is legally protected from divulging those secrets to ANYBODY, if she so decides to do so.
You can't have it BOTH ways.

SOMEBODY is being conned ... either the courts ... or us.
There is no third choice.
Either we ARE all equal .... or we are NOT.
You can't have it BOTH ways.