Kick_Faceinator

Socially, mentally and emotionally they can. Spirituality is an ingredient related to the previous ingredients. Together with the physical, they make us as a person. 
Well, Organization such WTJWorg can cause “death” in any form.

At present time/until now WTJWorg published, ...which in order ?, fifth, sixth..., "clear explanation"? 

It appears, you are the only sensible person here so far. It would seem, it doesn’t matter how Brother Rutherford views are handled, it points to the same conclusion with his written works.
 
1921 Joseph Rutherford The Harp of God page 239
These books are the first clear explanation of the divine plan ever published. In addition to the above, he published and widely circulated various booklets, 'What Say the Scriptures About Hell ?" “Spiritism," "The Bible Versus Evolution," 'Tabernacle Shadows," and many other tracts, pamphlets, etc. He was the author of the Photo-Drama of Creation, as well as the scenario used for this drama, which gives an outline of the divine plan from the creation to the times of restitution. He organized and conducted a lecture bureau which employed a large force of Bible lecturers who traveled and who yet travel throughout the world, proclaiming the message of the divine plan.
Therefore, this statement to Noah is a positive promise that never again will the earth witness the destruction of every living thing. Seeing, then, that we are at the end of the old order and the opening of the new, and that according to the Scriptures many must pass over to the new, it can be confidently announced that MILLIONS OF PEOPLE NOW LIVING WILL NEVER DIE, because these being offered restitution blessings the presumption must be indulged that many of them will accept and be obedient to the new order of things. Page 333
 
1924–Hell-What is it? Page 51-52
The apostle Paul plainly states that the death and resurrection of. Jesus, a guarantee that the dead in their tombs shall come forth. (1 Corinthians 15:12-25) Again, he says : Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by man whom hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead."-Acts 17 :31.
 St. Peter says : "Times of refreshing shall come from the face of Jehovah ; and he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you: whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began."-Acts 3 : 19-21.

You have repeated the same paragraph several times. So, all the people who showed faith in Jesus, and it started 2,000 years ago, aren’t dead?

Sorry, this is outside the proper mode of proof and without solid evidence. The filtering of dogmas, which you mention, does not mean that the dogmas have indeed become true, but only that they have been filtered through another interpretive model.

Those who are spiritually dying the second death don't believe then and like minded ones today still don't believe. Disfellowshiping a diseased one is a loving thing to do to keep the healthy and faithful free from disease spreading to the congregation.  However one should note, a person who is dying the second death is never redeemed, rather they have been abandoned. 
Just like in Jesus days on the earth when he stated to Believers, "Everyone who is Living and exercises faith in me Will Never Die At All." (John 11:26)
Today, there are many dying the second death as King Abaddon orders his angels to bundle up those who are stumbling others.  And that is a very good thing. 😁  Soon the Great Crowd will emerge... Forward March!
 

I am happy that my questions have provided food for thought. 
It is rather a shame that they have brought some comments from people who appear to be spiritualy unwell (Rando) and from people that just wish to divert conversation.
I would love you to widen out on this part of your comment Anna. I don't actually know the very latest teaching on this.
I was taught that a person must be a baptised JW to be 'in the Ark' of the Organisation, but I don't know if that is still taught so strictly. 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
On another note : I was quite surprised to find that Mr Rando is in the JW ONLY club. Someone must think that Rando is really a JW ???    

Perhaps, but ....
 
..... Some of you, JW', "kill" others with wrong words and wrong behavior towards others.

There is a physical killing and a spiritual killing.  Sometimes the spiritual ends up in the physical killing of the individual, through the reverberating effects of the practice of hate and shunning by JWs.
"Being limited by the laws of the worldly nation in which we live and also by the laws of God through Jesus Christ, we can take action against apostates only to a certain extent, that is, consistent with both sets of laws. The law of the land and God's law through Christ forbid us to (physically) kill apostates, even though they be members of our own flesh-and-blood family relationship. However, God's law requires us to recognize their being disfellowshiped from his congregation, and this despite the fact that the law of the land in which we live requires us under some natural obligation to live with and have dealings with such apostates under the same roof. Satan's influence through the disfellowshiped member of the family will be to cause the other member or members of the family who are in the truth to join the disfellowshiped member in his course or in his position toward God's organization” Watchtower 1952 Nov 15 p.703
There.  That puts it in the minds of JWs, that anyone disfellowshipped or anyone who walks away from the organization, is as good as dead in God’s eyes.
JWs are famously known worldwide, for their “killing” through disfellowshipping and shunning.  (Rev 13:15)

There are at least 20 places I found online where you can get "The Harp" (1921) for free. https://www.gutenberg.org/cache/epub/12868/pg12868-images.html
You can also get the booklet "Millions Now Living Will Never Die" (1920) for free here and a few other places.

 

Thank you @JW Insider for this link and the other one.
https://watchtowerdocuments.org/documents/1920_Millions_Now_Living_Will_Never_Die.pdf
Page 94 
HOW TO LIVE FOREVER
The church systems would have the people believe that only those who become church members can be saved.
The Bible never taught any such doctrine.
The Lord never organized the nominal systems, and the true church is but a little flock, who shall inherit the kingdom of heaven, and the others of the world do not inherit it. To the church Jesus said: 'Fear not, little flock; for it is your Father's good pleasure to give you the kingdom'. (Luke 12 : 32) Jesus died not only for those who will constitute the members of the church, but for all. St. John plainly stated: 'He is the propitiation [satisfaction] for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole worldv.-1 John 2: 2. 
I think this proves one point that i was making.   
And here we seem to have an answer 
Page 97
Then it shall come to pass that every one who will keep the saying of the Lord shall never see death. This promise would not have been made by Jesus if he did not intend to carry it into full force and effect in due time. Again he said: 'Whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die". (John 11 : 26) Do we believe the Master's statement? If so, when the time comes for the world to know, then they who believe and, of course, render themselves in obedience to the terms have the absolute and positive statement of Jesus that they shall never die.
 Based upon the argument heretofore set forth, then, that the old order of things, the old world, is ending and is therefore passing away, and that the new order is coming in, and that 1925 shall mark the resurrection of the faithful worthies of old and the beginning of reconstruction, it is reasonable to conclude that millions of people now on the earth will be still on the earth in 1925. Then, based upon the promises set forth in the divine Word, we must reach the positive and indisputable conclusion that millions now living will never die. 
 

YOU would think of that, because you are a 'physical man' not a 'spiritual man'.  

I’m sorry Arauna, but you are teaching falsehoods, and yes, you are “teaching” as a woman! 
"Those who imposed themselves onto Christians and rule like real kings." 
Who would that be?
The blood of the holy ones is on the hands of those who were once under covenant with God. – the rulers and the people of Israel.  You do know that your organization states that JWs have “come out” of Babylon the great? Under favorable circumstances in alignment with scripture, this would mean JWs are now blessed by God, and are safe, (which they actually preach) having God’s strength to keep them that way; is that not the case? They have built their DOMAIN – kingDOM. (1 Thess 5:3)
So, if I understand right, you are saying Christendom’s rulers are coming after JWs?  You think they are oppressing Wt’s truth, which is actually lies?  (2 Thess 2:9,10; 2 Pet 1:2-3)
Even though you are in a ‘spiritual paradise’, you do also know that your governing body member, S. Lett, says that Gog of Magog of Ezek 38 is a “Gentile” coalition of nations to come against JWs?  And that persecution is likely?  And these nations are also part of “false religion”/“Babylon the Great”, no? 
You have a conundrum in teachings.  Apparently, the organization of JWs has God’s blessing on it because they are the “remnant” to come out of Babylon the Great, the empire of false religion.   But wait, Christendom/Babylon and Gog of Magog are still coming for you!  
Doesn’t the organization preach that it is full of a righteous, obedient people? So tell me one instance when God allowed other nations to plunder His people, when they were faithful and obeying His laws, which every JW believes they are doing?
 Why did God’s people suffer persecution under the Babylonians?  Judah was wicked, disregarding God’s laws.  Hab 1:1-11
“Didn’t you exist before time began, O Lord, my God, my Holy One? We will not die! O Lord, you have appointed the Babylonians to bring judgment. O Rock, you have destined them to correct us.”  Hab 1:12
If those of your “Babylon” are coming after JWs, what have you done wrong?
What about Lett’s Gog of Magog?  Why did that army come upon Israel? 
“You will come from your place in the far north, you and many nations with you, all of them riding on horses, a great horde, a mighty army. 16 You will advance against my people Israel like a cloud that covers the land. In days to come, Gog, I will bring you against my land, so that the nations may know me when I am proved holy through you before their eyes.”
Why would God need Gog of Magog to prove His holiness? 
“‘I will display my glory among the nations, and all the nations will see the punishment I inflict and the hand I lay on them.  From that day forward the people of Israel will know that I am the Lord their God. 23 And the nations will know that the people of Israel went into exile for their sin, because they were unfaithful to me. So I hid my face from them and handed them over to their enemies, and they all fell by the sword. 24 I dealt with them according to their uncleanness and their offences, and I hid my face from them.’”  Ezek 39
Yes, Babylon and Gog of Magog were used against Israel as punishment.  I know JWs in general don’t believe they need to be punished by God sending Gentile nations against them.  How do your leaders feel so confident to skip the reasons why God’s people faced persecution from nations?  It is because there are very few among you, who actually READ the scriptures. So, your leaders are banking on the idea that they can get away with it!  You can’t just pick a little here and a little there without giving the entire account of WHY.  Your leaders made the same mistake with the locusts of Joel.  What will JWs do if the organization is still existing 5-10 years from now, when after reading the scriptures, your leaders tell you WHY Gog of Magog came against Israel, and they will have to scrap another embarrassing teaching?
Actually, I believe they have this planned out. They can’t touch Rev 20:7-10.  There, in the last days, Gog and Magog come against and surround…THE ANOINTED SAINTS – THE HOLY PEOPLE.  They don’t bring up this account in the last book of prophesy that addresses Armageddon,  because it conflicts with their false doctrine of a thousand years of peace after Armageddon – this, when it is promised “death will be destroyed” when Jesus returns.  If death is destroyed, then Gog and Magog will not appear a literal thousand years into the Kingdom. (1 Cor 15:25,26)
Taking away their thousand year doctrine would be devastating to the "faith" of JWs! The doctrine of men is more important than the word of God.  That has been proven when JWI said, scrapping 1914 by your leaders years ago who realized it is a lie, would disrupt the “faith” of JWs.  It had nothing to do with TRUTH.  What weak, unfaithful men, who refused to listen to God’s word and choose their falsehoods, over truth.
Christendom and the nations are not the fulfillment of Revelation.  Although Christendom has a horrible history of killing innocent people, possibly even anointed ones over the centuries, about his own people, Jesus said,   
 Therefore the wisdom of God also said, ‘I will send them prophets and apostles, and some of them they will kill and persecute,’ 50 that the blood of all the prophets which was shed from the foundation of the world may be required of this generation, 51 from the blood of Abel to the blood of Zechariah who perished between the altar and the temple. Yes, I say to you, it shall be required of this generation.
“O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her brood under her wings, but you were not willing!”  Luke 13:34
Do you see?  the blood of the “holy ones”, the prophets, will be required by God’s wayward people – an evil generation, who were under covenant with him, which Christendom is not, and this applies to today's "evil generation".   (Deut 1:35)
Hos 4:1-9 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Hosea+4%3A1-9&version=NIV
Where is “Jerusalem”, “Israel” today?  The anointed are “Israel”/New Jerusalem. (Gal 4:26) The elder body is a very large “Gentile” “iron” nation that has come against God’s authentic anointed. (Dan 2:40-42; Rev 9:1-5; 13:5-7) Compare the numbers and consider the total of elders, thousands of them worldwide.   We know it is far greater than the small amount of anointed, even if God only knows how many authentic anointed there are left in the Wt. Only the elders, can trample the Temple “living stones”; by standing where they don’t belong (Mark 13:14); and they have, by replacing and judging God’s holy priesthood and removing their daily sacrifices of praise. (Dan 8:11-13,31; 1 Pet 2:5,9; 1 Cor 3:16,17; 2 Thess 2:1-4) The holy ones/prophets/”two (meaning truth) witnesses” are sent to God’s people in this day (Rev 11:1-3), warning them of their idolatry to an organization, and for their sins of obeying prominent men, and not Jesus Christ. (Matt 24:24,25; Rev 13:4) They are unfaithful toward God’s laws in Christ, choosing the laws of men founded on lies.  A. Morris said the GB makes "decrees" that must be obeyed. Where is that written in the scriptures that it is okay to follow and obey uninspired men?  God has allowed His Temple to be trampled down as punishment against His people’s sins. (Dan 8:12 ("because of transgression"); Luke 22:31; Rev 12:1-4)   What happens to any anointed who speaks truth and represent Jesus Christ? They, and the “two witnesses”/appointed messengers are “killed”/disfellowshipped by the “Gentiles”.  This is spiritual blood on the hands of your leaders and the “Gentile”/elders. (Rev 6:9-11)
 How do I know this happens in “Jerusalem”, the “holy city” and not in Christendom?  (Rev 13:5-7; 20:9)
“When they finish their testimony, the beast (organization) that ascends out of the bottomless pit will make war against them, overcome them, and kill them. 8 And their dead bodies will lie in the street of the great city which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.”
Jesus was killed right outside of Jerusalem.  (Heb 13:13)
The apostles were persecuted BY THEIR OWN PEOPLE FOR SPEAKING TRUTH.  They also, were thrown out of the synagogues just as the elders disfellowship any who speak truth today. They are thrown out of the congregations. (John 16:2; Rev 13:15)
Persecution that happens in the world to JWs, is for two reasons.  God lets it happen, since His spirit is not with the organization; and since His people commit idolatry, not following Christ’s teachings. They follow another “head” – your harlot leaders and wicked slave. (Matt 24:48-51; Rev 13:11,12,15)  The other reason is because Satan wants to hide the true identity of the man of lawlessness that resides in the organization.  He has devised his counter fulfillment, easily swallowed by JWs like you, since they are blinded by the desire to relish lies and look for fulfillment in Satan’s world – just where he wants their focus to lie. (Luke 17:20,21; Matt 12:39)   This, is the war against truth spoken by Christ’s servants, and falsehoods spoken by Satan’s servants.  (Matt 24:15,16, 22-18; 2 Cor 11:13-14; Rev 12:7-9; 16:13-16 )
Revelation 18:4 says, “come out of her my people”.  Are JWs still thinking that God’s people under covenant are in Christendom and need to “come out”? Or, are JWs in “Babylon”, carrying the mark of the Beast – the identity put upon them by the organization? (Isa 28:14,15; Rev 8:15-17; 14:9,10)
Rev 18:4 applies to God’s holy people and those with them, who are under a “Gentile” rule of discipline.  Only the hard-hearted ones who refuse to see their sins and idolatry, will remain under the rule of the two Beasts of Revelation – Gog and Magog.  There will come a day when the scales will be removed, and they will finally be shown the true identity of the man of lawlessness.  (Rev 17:8)  It’s time to come out of the Wt, now. 
The third angel poured out his bowl on the rivers and springs of water, and they became blood. 5 Then I heard the angel in charge of the waters say:
“You are just in these judgments, O Holy One,
    you who are and who were;
6 for they have shed the blood of your holy people and your prophets,
    and you have given them blood to drink as they deserve.”
7 And I heard the altar respond:
“Yes, Lord God Almighty,
    true and just are your judgments.” Rev 16:4
Who…has shed the blood of God’s holy people?  Those unfaithful harlot leaders of the physical nation of Israel, and today’s spiritual “Israel”, who have made a covenant with “Gentiles”, leading to the trampling of God’s Temple.  (Dan 11:32; 2 Thess 2:3,4,9-12; Rev 11:1-3)
 
Daniel chapter 11
.
 
 
 
 

So what is the answer? I just browsed very quickly through the thread, I may have missed it...
I was always under the impression that he was predicting exactly what he said, that millions living at the time he wrote those words, would never die. You already mentioned that he believed 1925 would be the year when mankind would be blessed and vengeance brought upon the wicked (and the ancient worthies would be resurrected and live in San Diego). 
I guess I will go and look at the 100 years ago article and see what I come up with....
Ok, I read the article
 https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2021607
but I can't figure out what you are hinting at...🤔

It's nice to read your words here. But how did you relate that to the point that the IBSA under Rutherford didn't consist of 'millions' of people ?
I would have thought that he meant it literally too, as he was offering this 'information' to the public, and the public would not be thinking in a spiritual way. 
You haven't missed it but unfortunately I think @JW Insider is reluctant to answer my questions directly.  Unless JWI enjoys the power  of knowing things we don't know.  
An original copy of The Harp is available on ebay UK for less than 20 GBP. I'm tempted to buy it

Door-to-door public preaching is an exclusive way because JWs imitate Jesus and the apostles. It is no longer so important to literally follow Jesus ’example. Why? Because of the same love for their neighbors, because of which they went from door to door, they have now stopped going. Strange logic.
He mentioned how congregations are now divided into "pastoral groups". This word is so foreign to JW. It is certainly not used in Croatia, because it strongly reminds of the Catholic Church and their terminology.
 

That's a bit of a contradiction as you managed to answer @Srecko Sostar when he had agreed with my earlier comments. It seem to point out that you do not wish to converse with me in a Christian manner. That's your choice.
However, IBSA  = International Bible Students ASSOCIATION. That was not an Organisation. 
Another point (which may interest @Space Merchant ) in connection with the IBSA.  It seems that it still exists, but as a Real Estate dealership. 
IBSA London Properties is part of IBSA (International Bible Students Association) a registered charity acting on behalf of Jehovah’s Witnesses in Britain and Ireland. For more information about Jehovah’s Witnesses please follow this link.

Like i keep saying Mr Rando is just an AKA for another trouble maker here. He also seems, like others here, to be very sexist. There seems to be a few people on here that dispute ladies being part of the Anointed.  
 

This is Paula.  Pearl does not comment here.  Neither one of us have denied that we are anointed.  One member of this forum once asked about my anointing; from there it has been used as fuel for slander, although I have never pushed being anointed, or used it as  leverage of power over anyone.  (John 13:20; 15:20)  And, as I’ve said to you, I do not believe in the trinity, nor does Pearl. 
When people have to fabricate a lie – by taking truth and twisting it, making it crooked, altering factual truth to help them feel better about their own lies  -  I am reminded of the Pharisees twisting the words of Jesus. It reminds me of your leaders stating that those who speak against their lies by using scriptural truth, as being the demonic ones. Quickly, they target this person to be disfellowshipped  – removed from the congregations to shut them up; which in actuality, this “killing” leads to freedom and blessings.  (John 16:2; Rev 13:1,2,11,12,15; 1 John 3:12; Rev 12:17; Matt 5:11,12; Mark 8:35; Isa 42:5-7)  
It appears also, that you have fallen into this trap.  Jesus basically told the early leaders, they were children of their father the devil – saying they were an “evil generation”. (John 8:44; Luke 11:29) That generation line, is continuous, until the end.  (Gen 3:15; Deut 32:5; Acts 2:40; Matt 24:34,35)  Altering truth that someone has once proclaimed, is as Jesus said in John 8:44, speaking from one’s “own resources” – from what comes out of their heart.  (Luke 6:45)
Phil 2:12,13,15,16 -  “Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling; 13 for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure.”
“that you may become blameless and harmless, children of God without fault in the midst of a crooked and perverse generation, among whom you shine as lights in the world, 16 holding fast the word of life, so that I may rejoice in the day of Christ that I have not run in vain or labored in vain.”
Seriously, please think about this. I also hope you can see that it is an “evil generation” that demands a physical sign, which you rely on through use of your dates for the coming of the Kingdom.  (Matt 12:39)
 
Generation

I accidently happened on these girls and now I keep watching.

Rambo making up his own rules now  

If you'll notice, the topic is in the color blue and in quotes.  These are Pearl's words, and the link to the article on her blog is included.  My name is Paula which I have shared here before.  This is my facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/groups/restorationofjacob
 While my husband died a year ago this last August, Pearl's husband, Obadiah, is still alive.  Here is his blog: http://obadiah-blogs.blogspot.com/
 I'm not sure what your point is, but Pearl and I and other anointed ones, as well as believers in Christ, work together as a congregation.  It certainly is not a "girl's club" as you assume.  

This is off topic. But when you mention it we can say that the David' act you are talking about (Bethsabe? Isn't it) did not take place in complete secrecy. Just between the two of them. There were several other courtiers who took part in the realization of the adultery. They, at some, became unconscious accomplices in the work. And since none of them "reported" adultery, then they became accomplices in the true sense of the word. 
To claim that David’s servants did not witness an indecent relationship would be ridiculous. What reason does the King, who is married, have to inquire about a married woman and invite her to his chambers? Only naive people can say that this was a harmless conversation about how to serve a dinner table. Today, in WTJWorg, there is an instruction that spending the night in the same house can be considered a reason to suspect fornication, adultery. So the question is not how would it go with David under John's supervision / watch, but how would it go under JW elders' supervision / watch?  
So David sent and inquired about the woman. And someone said, “Is this not Bathsheba, the daughter of Eliam, the wife of Uriah the Hittite?” 4 Then David sent messengers, and took her; and she came to him, and he lay with her, for she was cleansed from her impurity; and she returned to her house. - 2 Sam 11:3,4

I am convinced of the same conclusion.
Think also.
I’m not familiar with the new teachings about it.

The historical context is interesting because it confirms today’s perception of the past historical context. And that is: They expected Armageddon and the establishment of an earthly Paradise during their lifetime.  After the failure of hope, they started a dogma with heavenly life for the chosen earthlings (variations on this theme exist in JW literature)
Today’s WTJWorg context has refuted all of this as outdated and misconceptions. JW Hope has new models of belief and beliefs, today.
Then we have the Context of Present Time, which confirms that both the WTJWorg contexts, the one from the time of Rutherford and the one from the time of present (the year 2021) WTJWorg Administration, are revealed by failed and inaccurate expectations, beliefs and interpretations, aka dogmas.
JW Hope has new models of belief and teachings, which will be the reason for discussions in this or some other Forum in the future.
What Rutherford thought then, and what we think he thought then are two things. Whatever he thought can be assumed on the basis of books and magazines from that time. So, let me agree with the question from the title of this topic.