JayDubya

That was very interesting. Of course, the real idea behind not believing in an immortal soul is that we don't believe there is a part of the person that goes on living as a separate entity (or life force) of some kind that can have its own memories of itself, and which can obtain and maintain new memories of things like suffering in eternal torment or heavenly bliss (or anything at all).
None of those ideas fit your idea that Witnesses believe in an immortal soul. But we do believe that something "like" what some people call "soul" is encompassed in the set of memories/personality/qualities/traits that make up a person and which can be remembered by Jehovah and recreated in a new body for either a heavenly or earthly environment. This can be summed up in the idea of "spirit" or "soul" but there is still quite a difference between the Witness belief and what most people think of when they hear those words.

First off, Witnesses basically believe in an immortal soul, though they would be offended at that statement. They get around the issue by calling it "Jehovah's memory". An instance of this is in the Watchtower (w07 11/1 p. 26 par. 16) where it says:
So, for example, let's say that some pioneer elder who has fifteen kids (that he's successfully raised in the 'Truth') dies tragically while doing business territory and helping an old lady cross the street. He's pretty much guaranteed a spot on the ole list, so he gets 'remembered' by Jehovah and his wife and kids.
Time passes, Great Tribulation comes and goes, Armageddon happens with lots of screaming and pain and clergymen getting crushed by collapsing steeples. New System arrives. (Geez! Took long enough!) Now it's resurrection time.
So Jehovah consults his list and sees our elder's name (we'll call him GA for 'Good Associate' and decides it's time to bring GA back.
So what happens? Does Jehovah scrounge around for all of GA's molecules and put them together again? Nope, that part of him is gone (and potentially being used in other humans - Ewwww!!!). The Watchtower explains (w00 7/15 p. 16 par. 2):
So Jehovah doesn't need to search for anything - that's great news! He can just sink a shovel in the dirt and get all he needs to build a hunky bod for GA. He gets to work and makes our buddy a body.
So now God is standing there with a lifeless assembled corpse in front of him. What's next? Oh, right. We need crank this thing up and get it started. This is where it gets interesting, and complicated... and confusing... The Reasoning book (rs p. 333) says:
So GA gets infused with his own personal identity. What is that? I don't know. No, seriously, I don't know. It's not his body, that's already been discussed. Is it his memories? No, because that's just GA's memories, that's not GA, you can download them into anyone or everyone. Is it his personality? That's not GA either, that's just wiring. What the heck is GA?!?
To put this into perspective, let's put ourselves in GA's wife's shoes. Here is her resurrected hubby, young and hot, and just like she remembered (she's hot too btw). But how does she know it's him?  How does she know it's not just some conglomeration of molecules that was downloaded with GA's memories and wired to act like GA? She doesn't! And GA's no help either, because all he can remember is the good things about being GA. So neither of them know if GA is the real deal. They're both useless!
And to really complicate things the Insight book (it-2 p. 786) says:
Wait! What?!? Now, to be fair, this sentence is in a paragraph about those with the creepy heavenly calling. But it specifically says that the soul is different than the body - it's the person, apart from the body. In fact, it sounds a lot different than just being in Jehovah's memory. If I take GA's soul and put it back into some body (any body) - that's GA? Apparently, but don't ask me to explain, cuz' I don't get it. To me, it sounds like something survived when GA's body didn't, and when that got implanted in a new body it became new GA.
This brings us back to Witnesses believe in an immortal soul. They really really want to believe that their dead loved ones will live again. But they also believe that there isn't anything that actually is the person, just memories in Jehovah's head. In that case, they can never be sure that their resurrected loved ones are who they used to be. This would terrify them if they ever took the time to think about it. But thankfully we can rest assured that Witnesses won't think about this and therefore we won't ever have to talk about GA ever again.

touché

I didn't watch the video. I might have but for some reason the sound wasn't very loud and I was in a noisy place. I just wanted to say that I thought that it was good that you expressed your opinion about it. Jack Ryan is not a JW and I assume he put it here for JWs to discuss. It might have been to try to embarrass JWs and/or it might have been to get JWs to think about policies that might be dangerous. I am getting a sense (after hearing about a recent rally of ex-JWs) that perhaps the suicide rate for ex-JWs really is much higher than the normal population, and it doesn't really surprise me that much. It also doesn't surprise me that the suicide rate for ex-soldiers is very high, but for different reasons.

I rest my case ......

Isn’t she communicating with him unnecessarily?   A bit much and unloving.

I have given you the key to the "Rosetta Stone" already.
You have the key.
In order to understand my perspective fully, * which you do NOT, at the present time .... you have merely projected how YOU see it onto me ... you MUST see the movie "Hacksaw Ridge, at least twice.  It was easier for me to understand myself after I saw it ... because during the Vietnam War I was ALSO a Conscientious Objector.
As you watch the movie ... ask yourself ... why would this man suffer so much, never ending malicious abuse at the hands of those who were supposed to be his "Brothers in Arms", and from the military "Governing Bodies" ... and while watching ...... visualize me in the protagonist's role.
Before I  saw the movie, I did what I did, and do what I do, without an understanding ... only a palpable resolution that my perspective was correct.
Now I know WHY!
....make sure you see the movie looking for MOTIVE.
Mel Gibson is a HELLUVA Director .... same with his movie PATRIOT.
You have to use the key you were given.
...sometimes they are found in the most unlikely of places.
 

All of what you say is WHY I follow at a safe distance.
I EXPECT nothing from anybody, and am seldom disappointed.

What?  Me Worry?

Shiwii:
I agree with everything you said in the immediately preceding post .... but I have a different perspective.
Let's say you are a United States Marine, and see the need to protect the Nation, and Civilization by being the "point of the spear".
When spears are thrown, they often miss, and are thereby wasted.
The word "sin", I understand, means literally missing your target.
In warfare you know about how many bullets it takes to kill ONE enemy soldier?
About 14,000 bullets ... as most are used providing suppressive fire.
In the Marines, as in every organization of men ... people rise until they reach their own level of incompetence ... and then they keep getting promoted.  Soldiers in the field ... the ones actually doing the fighting ... with very few exceptions ... have their allegiance to their "Brothers in Arms", and not to their leaders, who as they rise, become more and more like file clerks.
I was the focus of a disfellowshipping trial, and I was trying to explain my philosophy to the head guy, and he cut me off .... saying "I don't want to hear anything about the Marines".   And, he did not allow me to continue.
There are people that understand the NEED for Marines ... in spite of their sometimes and often incompetent and clueless leadership, and there are those that do NOT understand this.
To understand my viewpoint on a practical level .... you need to see the movie "Hacksaw Ridge" at least twice. AT LEAST TWICE.
All civilizations grow and evolve, and the casualties are ENORMOUS.   The United States of America has committed innumerable sins and evils in it's pursuit of righteousness, equity and Justice ... and is continuing to do so.
So has the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society .... and you are right ...
The difference is that I personally am NOT a social person ... I am only an IDEA person, and I know what is going on as well, AND MORE than you do .... and I try to serve Jehovah and Christ ... sometimes .... and at 71 years old, I DO KNOW THE DIFFERENCE.
When you are the "point of the spear", you get covered with figurative blood and gore. That is the main ingredient of growth and progress ... and it always takes TIME.  Sometimes several lifetimes.
Oh ... and any rational adult conversation, such as we are now having, please NEVER consider that I take insult.  I don't do that even when I am deliberately insulted.
I hope that before I die, I see the JW Organization grow and mature where everything we do is open, transparent, and that we can be proud of what we say, think and do.
I will KNOW when this happens ..... instead of wasting billions of hours knocking on other people's doors ..... THEY will be knocking on OURS.
Below is a rare example from today's news of the principles that are supposed to guide the United States.
I hope to see the Society mature that much in my own lifetime ... it is being pursued by hemorrhaging money in that direction, and by Mr. Google, who never sleeps.
Until then ... I will follow the circus clown car .... but at a long, safe distance.
Nobody in my lifetime has ever accused me of being "Brother Watchtower".
 
 


 

I STRONGLY suspect that If I had a JW ORG license plate, and drove at high speed down a crowded sidewalk, it would cause less actual reproach on Jehovah's name and perceived reputation, than the "Pillowgate" fiasco. which has become the fodder of high profile comedians in their shticks, and an embarrassment to the average JW when they ( if they) find out about it .... as the absolute creepiest thing ever uttered by the Governing Body, through it's "helpers".
We are getting ... correction ... we ALREADY HAVE .... a firmly established public reputation for family cruelty in HOW disfellowshipping is done ... and a firmly established reputation for perverting Justice with child sexual abuse cases through reprehensible legal machinations, and thanks to "Pillowgate", we now as an organization have a well established  reputation for being bat crap creepy, and borderline (?) insane.
In the grand scheme of things, a JW ORG license plate  being reproachable .... is completely irrelevant.
 

2 CHAIR pORNEA .mp4

Better not go 26 mph in a 25 mph zone or will be bringing reproach on Jehovah and his organization.

I think they did go too far personally.

I understand the necessity and need and desire to preach the word and it’s urgency, however, would this be a witness if this person were pulled over by a cop? Or speeding? Or cut someone off? Or playing ‘worldlyÂ’ music? ItÂ’s a bit commercialized. I certainly would NEVER want to drive a car with that tag for ‘we all stumble many times.Â’ Driving in a neighborhood could be a ‘warningÂ’ instead of a witness. Idk. How far is too far?

When I was fairly new in the Truth ( 40+yrs ago), I lived in Salt Lake City, home of the LDS Church (Mormons).  I was raised a Mormon but left on my own in my early 20s.   Mormons always seem to have story about some "spiritual experience" (my family is no exception).  So when I became a JW, I wasn't too surprised when the friends talked about things having demonic attraction.  I heard of pictures that wouldn't burn when it was discovered it were possessed.  There was a husband to a pioneer sister (I'm sure he was a JW or not), but whenever they were invited to someone's house he would point out something was demon possessed in their home.  Friends were getting rid of things left and right I was told (this is purely hearsay and I didn't attend the same congregation).   I had a copy of book by Kahill Gibran, The Prophet, that my husband gave me as a gift.  I was told it was causing demonic activity in my apt when I was gone (JWs lived downstairs from us at the time and it was disclosed later they were involved in very bad behavior).   When I was studying, a sister told me my wind chime attracted demons.   I haven't heard of such things for many years now and I enjoy the soft sound of a wind chime and I miss the book I threw away.    I tend to try  reasoning on such things  and not be gullible.  But I do believe demons can be attracted to things and people, even attaching themselves (for lack of a better term).   I played the Ouji board when I was young and super natural experiences scared the life out of me.  From my experience in life, caution is the word I would use when it comes to buying some things.

It seems very simple.
Perfect creations rebellion is never forgiven by God.
This is not Darth Vader's Star Wars scenario where you can destroy whole worlds, then have a "facepalm" moment when you die, and come back smiling and made whole.
There is only ONE valid excuse for anyone's rebellion against one's legal Sovereign ...
IF YOU WIN.
And they won't.

Demons having remorse? You are greatly mistaken.  They are willful in what they do, just like Satan.  They are stored up for destruction for many centuries.  Read the books of Genesis, Jude, and Revelation.  However they may sometimes appear to be doing good things.  They have many strategies to fool people:
(2 Thessalonians 2:9-12) 9 But the lawless one’s presence is according to the operation of Satan with every powerful work and lying signs and portents 10 and with every unrighteous deception for those who are perishing, as a retribution because they did not accept the love of the truth that they might be saved. 11 So that is why God lets an operation of error go to them, that they may get to believing the lie, 12 in order that they all may be judged because they did not believe the truth but took pleasure in unrighteousness.
(2 Peter 2:4) 4 Certainly God did not refrain from punishing the angels who sinned, but threw them into Tarʹta·rus, putting them in chains of dense darkness to be reserved for judgment. 
 
We are presently doing the Bible Reading in the Gospels. What did Jesus do when the demons sought to help by identifying Jesus as the Son of God (they know him of course - they used to be in heaven together at one time).  He always rebuked them and did not accept help from them.   The apostles did the same.
(Mark 5:2-13) . . .And immediately after Jesus got out of the boat, a man under the power of an unclean spirit met him from among the tombs. 3 His haunt was among the tombs, and up to that time, absolutely no one was able to bind him securely, even with a chain. 4 He had often been bound with fetters and chains, but he snapped the chains apart and smashed the fetters; and nobody had the strength to subdue him. 5 And continually, night and day, he was crying out in the tombs and in the mountains and slashing himself with stones. 6 But on catching sight of Jesus from a distance, he ran and bowed down to him. 7 Then he cried out with a loud voice: “What have I to do with you, Jesus, Son of the Most High God? I put you under oath by God not to torment me.” 8 For Jesus had been saying to it: “Come out of the man, you unclean spirit.” 9 But Jesus asked him: “What is your name?” And he replied: “My name is Legion, because there are many of us.” 10 And he kept pleading with Jesus not to send the spirits out of the country. 11 Now a great herd of swine was feeding there at the mountain. 12 So the spirits pleaded with him: “Send us into the swine, so that we may enter into them.” 13 And he gave them permission. With that the unclean spirits came out and went into the swine, and the herd rushed over the precipice into the sea, about 2,000 of them, and were drowned in the sea. 

(Acts 16:16-18) 16 And it happened that as we were going to the place of prayer, a certain servant girl with a spirit, a demon of divination, met us. She used to furnish her masters with much gain by practicing the art of prediction. 17 This [girl] kept following Paul and us and crying out with the words: “These men are slaves of the Most High God, who are publishing to YOU the way of salvation.” 18 This she kept doing for many days. Finally Paul got tired of it and turned and said to the spirit: “I order you in the name of Jesus Christ to come out of her.” And it came out that very hour.

(Deuteronomy 18:10-12) There should not be found in you anyone who makes his son or his daughter pass through the fire, anyone who employs divination, anyone practicing magic, anyone who looks for omens, a sorcerer, 11 anyone binding others with a spell, anyone who consults a spirit medium or a fortune-teller, or anyone who inquires of the dead. 12 For whoever does these things is detestable to Jehovah, and on account of these detestable practices Jehovah your God is driving them away from before you.
 
A word to the wise.
 

Move to where there IS clean water.
Or, learn how to purify water at home ... with a box, gravel, sand and some household bleach.
If you stare at trees ... it does not provide clean water.
Adapt and improvise YOURSELF!!

Actually, that was me ... and I moved on to another job before they found out. 
I was painting "M"s, ... "W"s, ... "3"s, ... and "E"s on the M&Ms with a small artist's paintbrush ... but the eyestrain was too great, and I got carpel tunnel syndrome.
My next job was working for a fencing contractor,  stockpiling fence post holes at his riverside facility, but unfortunately the river flooded, and washed all the inventory away.

A 32 year old Bethelite at Warwick, NY  was walking along a sidewalk at Bethel, going to the cafeteria for the evening meal,  and as he walked along, was in deep prayer to Jehovah God.
 He said, "Jehovah, you have promised to give me the desires of my heart. That's what I am asking you for right now. Please give me a confirmation that you will reward my faith and service to you.”
 Suddenly the sky clouded up over his head and God in a booming voice spoke to him. "I have searched your heart and determined it to be pure. The last time I granted someone the desires of his heart request .... it was to my servant Solomon.”
 “ He didn't disappoint me with his request for wisdom.”
 “ I think I can trust that you won't disappoint me either. Because you have been faithful to me in all ways, I will grant you the desires of your heart."
 The Brother sat and thought about it for a while and said, "I've always wanted to have a deep understanding of the Bible, and I have really tried, but I have forsaken a good education, and taken a vow of poverty and cannot afford a car or the classes I need to become an Engineer when my service here at  Bethel is up …. could you help me afford a car, and a stipend so I can go to school, and learn to provide for myself and my future family as I get old?"
 The Lord laughed and said, "That's impossible! Think of the logistics of that! I would have to start creating again to make you a car, and money to use, and get you into a college without any background that would make sense for what you would be learning!”
 “ … Your request is very materialistic, a little disappointing. I could do it, but it's hard for me to justify your craving for worldly things. Take a little more time and think of another request ….  a  request you think would honor and glorify Me as well."
 The Brother  thought about it for a long while and tried to think of a really good request.
 Finally, he said, “Oh God, please hear my request.  I was Baptized when I was eight years old, and paid attention all my life, taking notes, reading the Bible, and meditation … but I just cannot understand the “Overlapping Generations” thing.  I can’t see how Jesus or the Apostles or any disciples in the Early Church ever understood that, when Jesus was speaking. Can you help me to understand the “Overlapping Generations” Doctrine?”
 “I want to know what all the other Brothers and Sisters know, what  they feel inside and what they're thinking ...I want to know how to be as truly happy as they are, knowing these deep things about You ....That's the wish that I want, Jehovah … my hearts desire."
  … after a few minutes, God said, "How about a Corvette and a full scholarship to Stanford University?"
 

The richest and most powerful men in the world ... even the pilots who carry atomic bombs under their wings, have always been men of short stature.
I am 6'-6" tall and I tell you now, they do not make Corvette Convertibles my height.
I had a 1971, 454 Corvette convertible, and my head fitted between the fabric support bars, and left a hair tonic stain on the underside of the fabric roof.

If you have a picture of it, and an article about it ... the village is NOT hidden.

Cos:
If you check 200 MILLION driver's licenses, you will NOT find a single one that says the licensee's name is "human being".
God has a Name ... in English, it is commonly and by custom since the 1600's  in English .... Jehovah.
The Son of God has a name ... In English, it is Jesus.
The Archangel was referred to, again in English ... as Michael.
The Slanderer and Resister Angel turned demon is named, again in English ... Satan.
All five of my dogs have individual, specific personal names, as did every dog I have owned before them.
(... pauses for a swig of Cranberry Juice ...)
Even the juice I drink had a name ... Cranberry.
SOOOooo....
What is the Holy Spirit's personal name?
Descriptions and Titles do not count ... I have a comforter on my bed ... and as I have learned recently ... the Advocate is not a personal name... its the name of a "Gay Rights" magazine, or a Baton Rouge, Louisiana Newspaper. If they were Greek publications, they would be TITLED "Paraklete", identifiers to be sure ... but not being PERSONS , DNA or Spirit based .. that would not be PERSONAL names.
You must be thinking of CASPER, the FRIENDLY Ghost, of yesteryear's comic book fame.
What is the Holy Ghost's personal name?
 
 

 
CASPER?
 
 

I find that simple 325mg Aspirin is a GREAT help to fall asleep faster, and stay asleep for many hours. 
I take TWO Aspirin in an 8 oz glass of chilled Vodka, and sleep like a baby!

Yeah.  I am glad when I wake up, so I can get some rest..