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Melinda Mills

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  1. Like
    Melinda Mills reacted to b4ucuhear in 24 YEAR OLD BETHELITE WOMAN RECENTLY DISFELLOWSHIPPED FOR APOSTASY COMMITS SUICIDE!   
    It is one thing to speak frankly and honestly (rather than live in "pretend world") while also contributing to the spiritual welfare of our brothers and sisters. Some of our brothers and sisters in fact do experience some pretty bad stuff and they need validation and understanding. They won't be helped to cope by pretending it doesn't exist or a lack of transparency or even punishing them for exposing things that are clearly bad. On the other hand, it's another thing to have an agenda. An agenda to only tear down and direct people away from Jehovah's organization. That paints with too wide a brush and denies all the good that is done and can yet be done.
    One conspicuous omission I see from all these cowardly nay-sayers, sniping from behind the safety of a computer screen, is: What are you offering that is better? What religion are you in that is so much better? Let's examine your beliefs publicly and see if it stands the same level of scrutiny you hold us to. While we are obedient to Christ's command to preach the good news world wide, what are you offering? Let me guess: Bingo, bake sales and bazaars...?
  2. Upvote
    Melinda Mills reacted to TrueTomHarley in 24 YEAR OLD BETHELITE WOMAN RECENTLY DISFELLOWSHIPPED FOR APOSTASY COMMITS SUICIDE!   
    This system of things has failed its young people in countless ways, with the predictable result that they are committing suicide in record numbers. Suicide rate of that age group has tripled since the 1950's. One Millennial site puts it: "Every generation uses the ceiling of the generation before them to become their floor to build off of. Instead, it feels like our generation is dodging the crumbling remains of the ceiling exploding above us." (allgroanup.com) Exactly.
    That being the case, it is misguided to try to impede the one organization proclaiming the solution from the Bible. If they ceased doing it, there is no one else to take over.  So plain does this seem to me that I have sometimes crossed a line and asserted it is done for exactly that reason: to prevent the proclaiming of God's kingdom - remarks that have not gone down well in all quarters. But it seems either that or a cutting off of one's nose to spite one's face. it seems either that or the 'unreasoning animals' of Peter's description who act contrary to their own interests. 
    I used to love giving the talk: 'Acquiring a Heart of Wisdom.' I led off with the by-now-trite illustration I've heard of how treasure-seekers dig through the dirt to find the tiniest bit of diamond, and how foolish it would be to reverse it - dig through the diamonds to find the tiniest bit of dirt. I then stated that, nonetheless, we would be doing exactly that for the next 45 minutes, since, with any time in the faith, you are going to come across some dirt,, and if you are not prepared, you will be floored, for it is the one place you do not expect to find any.
    Then I reveled in tearing things apart for 45 minutes, both in the Hebrew and Greek scriptures. I hit my stride with Revelation 2 and 3, considering absolute basket cases of congregations, guilty of every horrible thing, and yet they were still congregations. The idea was to encourage the audience to have a realistic outlook on what they will always eventually encounter anywhere there are people.
    Arguably, mature ones here who sometimes veer into discussing organizational flaws are not impeding anything, but by 'shining the bright light of journalistic truth' are encouraging everyone to shape up. Though that sometimes works, as often it is as when you shine a bright light upon cockroaches. They don't stop being cockroaches when you do that. They just go somewhere else.
    Arguably, everyone is doing just fine here, and it may even benefit some opposers to hear frank admissions of faults by persons of good motive. However, it is another thing entirely to 'smuggle' confidential stuff, whatever that may be, so that Jay can put it on his website. He has pretty well demonstrated where his interests lie.
    JTR, the strangest of all birds to me, regales us tirelessly with war scenarios about the boldness and courage and glory of men who SACRIFICED THEIR ALL in the greatest theater of existence. He would be shot in a heartbeat as a traitor if he carried on there as he does here. Does he think the military generals that sent thousands into battle were above the petty miscues that he lambastes others for here?
    All this is not to be unkind to the young woman in question, who I did not know. She is caught up in the spirit of the age, most likely, that holds that revealing faults is somehow a sacred quest - that only good can come of it. Even Jay's breathless banner conveys his enthusiasm for tearing down: it is a SPECIAL REPORT! Just like the banning of the entire religion merited a SPECIAL REPORT on the broadcast site. It is not hard to see whose interests he serves.
    It's regrettable, of course, but hardly a special report, as though  she was a freedom fighter lost in the most noble of causes. Otherwise, every downed soldier would also merit a special report, every millennial suicide would also merit a special report, and whoever they last engaged with would merit special attention as the villain of our age.
    Can they get insular at Bethel? Can there be intrigues? Of course. It is the common bane of people. But I am loath to offer counsel because A.) I'm not qualified, B.) I don't have 5% of the information they do, C.) it's not my place, D.) Even when I identify a problem, that does not mean I have any idea how to fix it. The world's obsession with firing people for miscues results only in inexperienced clods running show - Jesus fired only Judas, E.) I don't think such matters are fixed though the democratic means of public journalism. It hasn't worked that way in the general world; drawbacks are as numerous as successes, and on balance, it is no better than hoping you get a nice king and not a mean one. F.) I tend to think these matters are self-correcting. If it truly is something from God, as I conclude it is based upon the proclamation of truth that they alone spearhead, then entities other than me will take care of troubles. 
     
  3. Upvote
    Melinda Mills reacted to b4ucuhear in 24 YEAR OLD BETHELITE WOMAN RECENTLY DISFELLOWSHIPPED FOR APOSTASY COMMITS SUICIDE!   
    Unfortunately, that wasn't just true back in the '80's. I have seen the same thing and so have others - and it's not just true of NY Bethel. The trick for those of us who have lived through and seen these lying machinations is not only to stay faithful to our dedication and respect for the authority of our organization (while being more than aware of things that might destroy the faith of our brothers and sisters), but to help them to stay grounded despite the faith-testing/destroying machinations of men who have something to hide, and who will lie, plot and scheme to protect themselves. To try to help our friends have faith that overall, we are a spiritual organization, not just the political entity proud ambitious men would turn it into.We expect this behaviour in the world, but when men in authority ("angels in Jesus' right hand") act as if they are in Satan's right hand, then most would have a hard time to rationalize what they may see or even experience within the context of their faith - it's just too "out there." But prophetic warnings in Gods Word make clear that this type of stuff will happen - (not just could happen).. It's just that people think it's "negative talk" or something that "allegedly" happens to someone else until it happens to them.  
    I have a lot of respect for mature, battle-hardened/wisened Christians who in a spiritual sense, are like the valiant mighty men of old who faced dangers from outside and within in defence of pure worship. Although I love also my "weaker" in faith brothers and sisters who would rather act as if these things can't/don't exist or even acknowledge it, I wouldn't want to be like that - in "pretend world." I have always wanted to know the "truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth" - even when it is uncomfortable - at least it's real and I know who/what I am dealing with. We can easily accept there will be wickedness from Satans system. Not so easy when it's from within "Jehovah's organization." But those who have this "tested quality of our faith" are a living testimony that these things are survivable, doable, and they can even maintain their joy in serving Jehovah stronger and wiser than before. 
  4. Like
    Melinda Mills reacted to James Thomas Rook Jr. in 24 YEAR OLD BETHELITE WOMAN RECENTLY DISFELLOWSHIPPED FOR APOSTASY COMMITS SUICIDE!   
    The best way to not have any SPIES ...
    ... is not do anything that needs to be SECRET !
  5. Like
    Melinda Mills reacted to TrueTomHarley in 24 YEAR OLD BETHELITE WOMAN RECENTLY DISFELLOWSHIPPED FOR APOSTASY COMMITS SUICIDE!   
    Is this ever not the case?
    Any report of suicide evokes sympathy. People are left to wonder of inner turmoil and so forth. Still, any mental health professional will say that the inability to move on after a perceived negative experience puts one at increased risk for self-harm. People who can't 'move on' in life suffer more often than those who can and do. What we have here, assuming matters are objectively reported - which I do not assume because I have seen Jay's other posts and he has made his intent clear - is a correlation augmented by a possible trigger, but hardly cause and effect.
    Does anyone think when Kathy Griffin held aloft the severed head of the President, it caused no ripples in her Republican (if they were that) family? She is trying to destroy what they hold of paramount importance.
    Of course, I knew neither the young woman, nor the circumstances, nor what 'mission' she was on when she was thwarted. (I suspected the latter is exaggerated by Jay becasue he exaggerates anything he deems harmful to the visible organization) Therefore, I can only speak in the abstract.
    To a degree that may be true, but 2 Timothy 3:1-5 also must be factored in - how persons in the last days would be not open to any agreement, impossible to satisfy, fierce, disloyal, betrayers, headstrong, and so forth. Many today have no interest in reform but seek only to destroy. Divorce it from the field of religion for a moment, for it is clearly seen anywhere - the urge to tear down with no corresponding interest in building. Obama suffered it. Trump suffers it
    It hardly follows that a group that merely wants to protect confidential information is villainous because someone takes her own life when she is stymied trying to extract it.
  6. Upvote
    Melinda Mills got a reaction from Queen Esther in Pillion driver somersaults through the air after motorbike smashes into the back of a stationary car...   
    "Pillion" = a seat for a passenger behind a motorcyclist.
    It is not customary to say  "driver" for the one on the pillion.   One says "motorclyclist" for the one in front steering and "rider" for the one behind. So it is pillion rider, not driver.  "Driver" is technically correct for the one in front , but not often used.  Of course the proper use of the English Language is no longer in vogue.
     
    See usage here in heading:  https://www.towardszero.vic.gov.au/campaign/driver-think-rider-rider-think-driver
  7. Like
    Melinda Mills got a reaction from The Librarian in Pillion driver somersaults through the air after motorbike smashes into the back of a stationary car...   
    "Pillion" = a seat for a passenger behind a motorcyclist.
    It is not customary to say  "driver" for the one on the pillion.   One says "motorclyclist" for the one in front steering and "rider" for the one behind. So it is pillion rider, not driver.  "Driver" is technically correct for the one in front , but not often used.  Of course the proper use of the English Language is no longer in vogue.
     
    See usage here in heading:  https://www.towardszero.vic.gov.au/campaign/driver-think-rider-rider-think-driver
  8. Upvote
    Melinda Mills reacted to Evacuated in NOAH! – The END OF THE WORLD – IS NOT COMING! WHAT IS RAIN?   
    Quite correct.
    I would compare the attitude described by John in the Revelation here. Of Babylon the Great, it is said that one of the reasons for her sudden destruction is that at the time of this event  "she keeps saying in her heart: ‘I sit as queen, and I am not a widow, and I will never see mourning.'' " Rev.18:7. Being also at this time  "drunk....with the blood of the witnesses of Jesus" shows that she has had contact with these ones in order to persecute them.
    We know that false religion has been served with a comprehensive exposure, and notification of God's judgement, even at this stage of the "last days". On the whole, this message has been ignored and suppressed and it 's bearers hounded. And yet, you will find even in the pages of religious publications, quite accurate descriptions of who Jehovah's Witnesses are and what they believe. Copies of their publications on this subject are even distributed by their opposers and are also available on ebay!
    So Babylon the Great takes no note of the substance of the judgement message it has received. Hearing the message is one thing which cannot be denied as the vehement reaction to it's bearers (the witnesses of Jesus) bears out. But believing it, taking it to heart, and acting appropriately on it is something else. Failure to do so pecipitates the "swift pitch" of Babylon's destruction (Rev 18:21). The reaction of all her consorts and exploiters from the sidelines as described in Rev 18:9-19 bear out the surprise and unexpected nature of this destruction when it occurs, despite the publicity campaign preceding it.
    So, as a major component of the events of the last days, the eviction notice served to Babylon the Great, the vicious reaction to it's bearers, along with the "I will never see mourning" attitude are significant. It seems highly unlikely that the "took no note" attitude of the people described by Jesus at the the time of Noah as having a  similarity to those held in the "last days" (Jewish system or current global), would be due to a lack of notification on the part of Noah, who was indeed described as a "preacher of righteousness". Luke's description of  heart attitudes as a component of this taking no note has a similarity to the description of Babylon the Great's heart attitude as a component of her adverse judgement. Paul speaks of "the eyes of your heart" when discussing with the Ephesians (Eph. 1:18) understanding God's purposes.
    I submit that it is the heart reaction of the hearer that determines whether one "takes note" or not. The suddeness and unexpected nature of destruction at the flood of Noah's day, at the end of the Jewish system, when Babylon the Great is destroyed, and when Armageddon strikes, for those who are adversely effected will not be due to any lack of notification and warning on the part of Jehovah or His witnesses, both heavenly and on earth. They (unbelievers) heard the warning but "took no note", in their hearts.
  9. Like
    Melinda Mills reacted to Anna in Could Someone Be Disfellowshipped For Not Believing In The "Overlapping Generation" JW Doctrine AFTER Being Baptized?   
    That is far too simplistic. A disfellowshipping happens for several reasons and merely not believing something is not one of them.
    So....I did ask the elder. Of course he did not give me a yes or a no answer immediately. He said it depends. But disfellowshipped directly and specifically for not believing the overlapping generation NO. Of course I already knew his answer because he has known about my feelings regarding this topic (overlapping generation) for a long time and I have as yet not been disfellowshipped and don't ever expect to be over this issue. It stands to reason. There is no scriptural basis to disfellowship someone for not believing something which is ambiguous, or not clearly set out in the scriptures, or is not a core teaching.  A case in point: The experience of Willi Diehl in last weeks WT study. He knew getting married was not un-scriptural, therefor he went ahead despite sanctions and despite some treating him as if he was disfellowshipped. But he was not disfellowshipped. Another situation; in the video at the convention last week, (Friday 4:15 - How you can by no means ever fail) the brother did not go along with the 1975 idea, because, in his own words "something just didn't seem right" he reminded himself that we cannot know since Jesus said no one knows, and that he was dedicated to Jehovah, and not to a date. Similarly, if someone does not go along with the overlapping generation idea, because they personally do not see sufficient scriptural evidence, then that is no grounds for disfellowshipping.
    Back to the "it depends". If someone created enough fuss and caused divisions and unrest in the congregation because he insisted everyone came around to his view, then if that person continued despite nicely being asked to stop, then he could end up being disfellowshipped. Not for his belief, but for causing divisions. And disfellowshipping for that does have scriptural basis.
  10. Upvote
    Melinda Mills reacted to JW Insider in Could Someone Be Disfellowshipped For Not Believing In The "Overlapping Generation" JW Doctrine AFTER Being Baptized?   
    There is obviously unity, but the best kinds of unity refer, not to absolute conformity of thought, but to the ability of Witnesses of all ages to respond in their own words with Bible answers to many doctrinal questions. Most active Witnesses are able to do this for dozens of Bible questions, using their own words, even coming up with their own illustrations. Continuous training in Bible topics will create a high level of conformity, but it's also a unity of purpose, unity in moral standards, and unity in the sense of getting along with one another with minimal issues with regard to race, nationality, etc.
    Not all Witnesses are even interested in potential variations of doctrine, because it is so easy to just listen and learn. I believe that, as Christians, it's our responsibility to question all things, but doctrines need not be the highest priority to Christians. They can't be ignored, but Christians should be more conscientiously concerned with moral standards, serving the needs of others and showing love for God and neighbor and allowing those priorities to motivate all of their life and conduct. Doctrines will find their place as time permits.
    Those Witnesses who do question teachings out of a strong desire for truth are not hard to find if you listen closely in person to their talks and prayers. And of course, online, it's possible to find many more hiding behind avatars and fake names.
    Remember, too, that many Witnesses who have done their Christian duty to question all doctrines may currently appear to be in total conformity with the vast majority of other Witnesses because their questions and research have brought them right back into full acceptance of the unique Witness doctrines. Some, of course, will do their Christian duty and find that one or two doctrines seem impossible to accept to that individual's conscience. Because they work among fellow Witnesses where the majority view is different, they are usually careful to avoid hurting the conscience of the other person by talking openly about their belief. This might give an appearance of conformity that appears stricter than the actual conformity.
  11. Upvote
  12. Upvote
    Melinda Mills got a reaction from Anna in Could Someone Be Disfellowshipped For Not Believing In The "Overlapping Generation" JW Doctrine AFTER Being Baptized?   
    Agree with above. Holding a personal belief is different from causing divisions.  How did we get to the stage where Christians would get into trouble for believing something different which is not an essential Christian teaching.  Is overlapping generation in the Bible?
    "Acts 15: 28  For the holy spirit and we ourselves have favored adding no further burden to you except these necessary things: 29 to keep abstaining from things sacrificed to idols, from blood, from what is strangled, and from sexual immorality. If you carefully keep yourselves from these things, you will prosper. Good health to you!” "
    We don't wish to add further burdens to others. If we have personal thoughts on matters - that is freedom of thought and conscience. We don't have to share them and cause divisions.  But we are free to hold them. That's God given.
    The days of Inquisition passed  a few hundred years ago.  Are we forgetting history? Why are we attracting trouble by asking persons what we can or cannot personally believe?
  13. Upvote
    Melinda Mills got a reaction from JW Insider in Could Someone Be Disfellowshipped For Not Believing In The "Overlapping Generation" JW Doctrine AFTER Being Baptized?   
    Agree with above. Holding a personal belief is different from causing divisions.  How did we get to the stage where Christians would get into trouble for believing something different which is not an essential Christian teaching.  Is overlapping generation in the Bible?
    "Acts 15: 28  For the holy spirit and we ourselves have favored adding no further burden to you except these necessary things: 29 to keep abstaining from things sacrificed to idols, from blood, from what is strangled, and from sexual immorality. If you carefully keep yourselves from these things, you will prosper. Good health to you!” "
    We don't wish to add further burdens to others. If we have personal thoughts on matters - that is freedom of thought and conscience. We don't have to share them and cause divisions.  But we are free to hold them. That's God given.
    The days of Inquisition passed  a few hundred years ago.  Are we forgetting history? Why are we attracting trouble by asking persons what we can or cannot personally believe?
  14. Upvote
    Melinda Mills reacted to James Thomas Rook Jr. in Get ready for the August 21, 2017 solar eclipse! Find out what you’ll see based on location....   
    If you can make it ... it will be something you will remember with awe the REST OF YOUR LIFE ... in great DETAIL ... WITH AWE AND REVERENCE.
    Susan and I and my Sister's family are planning to go to Cross Hill, South Carolina, arriving in the early morning of Monday, August 21st, 2017.  This is the exact center of the path of the total eclipse that is impossible not to be able to find. 
    We have already bought solar viewing glasses,  ( about $3.00 each), and I am going to buy a solar filter for my camera. We are taking a lunch and supper, as everywhere in a 70 mile wide path of the eclipse will be PACKED with people from all over America to see it.
     
     



  15. Like
  16. Upvote
    Melinda Mills reacted to JW Insider in Could Someone Be Disfellowshipped For Not Believing In The "Overlapping Generation" JW Doctrine AFTER Being Baptized?   
    I know for a fact, and from personal experience, that it is quite possible to hold differing views from many other Witnesses and continue to have privileges and NOT be disfellowshipped. Among certain bodies of elders one can even make a private request not to be given certain subject matter as assignments and, as long as this never interferes with congregation activities as a whole, this need not be a problem. But I also know that there are some elders and circuit overseers who are quick to create an ultimatum that might lead to disciplinary action. It's ironic that some of the most judgmental of these persons themselves also hold views that differ from the Society's view. (I saw this especially when I worked for Brother Schroeder.)
    Everyone knows that all of us might hold certain minor variations in our personal beliefs about a verse or an idea here and there, and if we are not dogmatic and if it does not contradict a key teaching then we are "safe."  But it is easy to cause trouble with personal beliefs, and it's easy for people to get caught up in the idea that their personal beliefs make them somehow better or more spiritually mature than others. This was a rather obvious problem for a time at Bethel.
    I didn't see it as openly when I was there, but I'm told that there was a practice that probably peaked in the early to mid 1970's and coincided with the hype about 1975 that ran from 1967 to 1974. The practice was for many "Bethel Elders" (especially those in authoritative positions) to talk about ideas they held that differed from the current Watchtower teachings. This was not considered a sign of disrespect, but a way to gain more respect, a way to position themselves as spiritually mature and studious. It was especially the more mature brothers who had responsibilities in the Service Dept, Correspondence, Writing, and similar work. It seemed like every "Table Head" could speak about some nuances of differences in belief that he held, and there was a kind of free-thinking openness that many brothers found refreshing. Younger Bethelites were able to have enlightening conversations among themselves about doctrinal possibilities based on sharing things they heard from table conversations.
    The expansion of the Bethel family due to the increased inflow of Witnesses in the pre-1975 era might have had something to do with why this was cracked down upon. With the new Governing Body assignments that expanded beyond the Board of Directors, some of the brothers like Sydlik and Schroeder who were well known for this practice, began to be heard only in more hushed tones. Others followed suit, so that non-conformists seemed to censor themselves (I'm told). Of course, it's quite possible that other factors resulted in the self-censoring. Perhaps there was a fear that it could get out of control; perhaps it came from Knorr or Franz. All I know is that people still talked about the more open freedom that had been the norm in the years just before I got to Bethel, and various Bethelites would still identify who had said what about certain doctrines. The consistency among various Bethelites told me that most of it was probably true, and I was able to verify some of it with Dan Sydlik, Bert Schroeder, Fred Rusk, Sam Friend and others personally.
    On the matter of the "overlapping generation" I would think it's simply a matter of attitude and "style." Disagreeing without being disagreeable.
  17. Like
    Melinda Mills reacted to ComfortMyPeople in The priest, his dead relatives and disfellowshipped Christians   
    (Ezekiel 44:25, 26) “They should not approach any dead human, or they will become unclean. However, they may make themselves unclean for their father, mother, son, daughter, brother, or an unmarried sister. And after the purification of a priest, they should count off seven days for him”
     
    The priest should not contact any dead human… except his nearest relatives. Jehovah is very reasonable and comprehensive when dictating rules.
    Would not it be fine to apply the same principle when we deal with disfellowshipped people? Why Paul doesn’t mention these exceptions in 1Cor 5? Why Ezekiel doesn’t mention the priest’s wife? Perhaps, because the common sense would guide the application. It isn’t the same my cousin than my father, it is?
    Other reference:
    (Leviticus 21:1, 2) “Jehovah went on to say to Moses: “Talk to the priests, Aaron’s sons, and say to them, ‘No one should defile himself for a dead person among his people. But he may do so for a close blood relative, for his mother, his father, his son, his daughter, his brother,…”
  18. Like
    Melinda Mills reacted to Evacuated in The ex-Jehovah's Witnesses shunned by their families (BBC report)   
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40704990
    Even the highly regarded BBC cannot resist the  temptation to indulge in gutter-press standard reporting when it comes to Jehovah's Witnesses.
    This report on the Jehovah's Witnesses disfellowshipping process is rather misleading. It associates the disfellowshipping action with totally unrelated experiences and leaves the impression that this action is taken: 
    1. when a person leaves an abusive relationship 
    2: when a person does not attend the annual memorial celebration of Christ's death.
    Nothing could be further from the truth. Even the most inexperienced researcher could easily find out the circumstances leading to this serious and scriptural measure by looking at https://www.jw.org/en/jehovahs-witnesses/faq/shunning/.
    It is unlikely that the interviewees would reveal the real reason for their disfellowshipping which would probably cause personal embarrassment, and there is no way that the official organisation would comment or reveal the details of an individual case.
     
  19. Upvote
    Melinda Mills got a reaction from Nana Fofana in ALL aspects of 1914 doctrine are now problematic from a Scriptural point of view   
    Agree that anything relating to the future also relates to the past. So I agree Revelation also mentions current and past events. However, by its very name, Revelation, it reveals things not  before mentioned. These things are to occur in the future from the time of their revelation.  It also coincides with the book of Daniel which also relates to the present in Daniel’s time but mainly on the future as these texts confirm.
    I will therefore print those quotes which help to identify the players and the periods in question.
    ===
    “Our current understanding is that this fourth beast must be Rome, and yet, during the time of this beast was also the time when Jesus was given the kingdom.”  JWInsider
    ===
    The quotes below reveal in a satisfying way the time periods we wish to understand. 
     The prophecy of Daniel is for the time of the end
    (Daniel 8:17) So he came near to where I was standing, but when he came I was so terrified that I fell facedown. He said to me: “Understand, O son of man, that the vision is for the time of the end.”
    (Daniel 8:26) “What was said in the vision about the evenings and the mornings is true, but you must keep the vision secret, for it refers to a time many days from now.”
    (Daniel 12:9) Then he said: “Go, Daniel, because the words are to be kept secret and sealed up until the time of the end.
    (Daniel 12:4) “As for you, Daniel, keep the words secret, and seal up the book until the time of the end. Many will rove about, and the true knowledge will become abundant.”
     
    The fourth beast is Rome – but there are extensions into our time
     (see paras. 24,25 of chapter 9 below)
      Pay Attention to Daniel’s Prophecy! quote below.
    *** dp chap. 9 pp. 130-131 pars. 6-7 Who Will Rule the World? ***
    6 “As for these huge beasts,” said God’s angel, “because they are four, there are four kings that will stand up from the earth.” (Daniel 7:17) Clearly, the angel identified the four beasts that Daniel saw as “four kings.” Thus, these beasts signify world powers. But which ones?
    7 Bible expositors commonly link Daniel’s dream-vision of four beasts with Nebuchadnezzar’s dream of an immense image. For example, The Expositor’s Bible Commentary states: “Chapter 7 [of Daniel] parallels chapter 2.” The Wycliffe Bible Commentary says: “It is generally agreed that the succession of four Gentile dominions . . . is the same here [in Daniel chapter 7] as that contemplated in [Daniel] chapter 2.” The four world powers represented by the four metals of Nebuchadnezzar’s dream were the Babylonian Empire (gold head), Medo-Persia (silver breasts and arms), Greece (copper belly and thighs), and the Roman Empire (iron legs). (Daniel 2:32, 33) Let us see how these kingdoms correspond to the four huge beasts that Daniel saw.
     
    *** dp chap. 9 pp. 136-148 pars. 18-39 Who Will Rule the World? ***
    The Roman World Power, however, did not end with the removal of its last emperor in Rome in 476 C.E. For many centuries, papal Rome continued to exercise political, and especially religious, domination over Europe. It did so through the feudal system, in which most inhabitants of Europe were subject to a lord, then to a king. And all kings acknowledged the authority of the pope. Thus the Holy Roman Empire with papal Rome as its focal point dominated world affairs throughout that long period of history called the Dark Ages.
    19 Who can deny that the fourth beast was “different from all the other kingdoms”? (Daniel 7:7, 19, 23) In this regard, historian H. G. Wells wrote: “This new Roman power . . . was in several respects a different thing from any of the great empires that had hitherto prevailed in the civilised world. . . . [It] incorporated nearly all the Greek people in the world, and its population was less strongly Hamitic and Semitic than that of any preceding empire . . . It was so far a new pattern in history . . . The Roman Empire was a growth, an unplanned novel growth; the Roman people found themselves engaged almost unawares in a vast administrative experiment.” Yet, the fourth beast was to have further growth.
    A SMALL HORN GAINS THE ASCENDANCY
    20 “I kept on considering the horns,” said Daniel, “and, look! another horn, a small one, came up in among them, and there were three of the first horns that were plucked up from before it.” (Daniel 7:8) Concerning this outgrowth, the angel told Daniel: “Another one will rise up after them [the ten kings], and he himself will be different from the first ones, and three kings he will humiliate.” (Daniel 7:24) Who is this king, when did he rise, and what three kings did he humiliate?
    21 Consider the following developments. In 55 B.C.E., Roman General Julius Caesar invaded Britannia but failed to establish a permanent settlement. In 43 C.E., Emperor Claudius began a more permanent conquest of southern Britain. Then, in 122 C.E., Emperor Hadrian began to build a wall from the Tyne River to the Solway Firth, marking the northern limit of the Roman Empire. Early in the fifth century, the Roman legions left the island. “In the sixteenth century,” explained one historian, “England had been a second-rate power. Its wealth was slight compared with that of the Netherlands. Its population was much less than that of France. Its armed forces (including its navy) were inferior to Spain’s.” Britain evidently was an insignificant kingdom then, making up the symbolic small horn of the fourth beast. But that was to change.
    22 In 1588, Philip II of Spain launched the Spanish Armada against Britain. This fleet of 130 ships, carrying more than 24,000 men, sailed up the English Channel, only to suffer defeat by the British navy and to fall victim to contrary winds and fierce Atlantic storms. This event “marked the decisive passing of naval superiority from Spain to England,” said one historian. In the 17th century, the Dutch developed the world’s largest merchant marine. With growing overseas colonies, however, Britain prevailed over that kingdom. During the 18th century, the British and the French fought each other in North America and India, leading to the Treaty of Paris in 1763. This treaty, said author William B. Willcox, “recognized Britain’s new position as the predominant European power in the world beyond Europe.” Britain’s supremacy was confirmed by the crushing victory over Napoléon of France in 1815 C.E. The “three kings” that Britain thus ‘humiliated’ were Spain, the Netherlands, and France. (Daniel 7:24) As a result, Britain emerged as the world’s greatest colonial and commercial power. Yes, the “small” horn grew to become a world power!
    23 The angel told Daniel that the fourth beast, or fourth kingdom, would “devour all the earth.” (Daniel 7:23) That proved true of the Roman province once known as Britannia. It eventually became the British Empire and ‘devoured all the earth.’ At one time, this empire embraced one fourth of the earth’s land surface and a fourth of its population.
    24 As the Roman Empire differed from previous world powers, the king depicted by the “small” horn would also “be different from the first ones.” (Daniel 7:24) Concerning the British Empire, historian H. G. Wells noted: “Nothing of the sort has ever existed before. First and central to the whole system was the ‘crowned republic’ of the United British Kingdoms . . . No single office and no single brain had ever comprehended the British Empire as a whole. It was a mixture of growths and accumulations entirely different from anything that has ever been called an empire before.”
    25 There was more to the “small” horn than the British Empire. In 1783, Britain recognized the independence of its 13 American colonies. The United States of America eventually became Britain’s ally, emerging from World War II as the earth’s dominant nation. It still has strong ties with Britain. The resulting Anglo-American dual world power constitutes the ‘horn having eyes.’ Indeed, this world power is observant, astute! It ‘speaks grandiose things,’ dictating policy for much of the world and acting as its mouthpiece, or “false prophet.”—Daniel 7:8, 11, 20; Revelation 16:13; 19:20.
    THE SMALL HORN OPPOSES GOD AND HIS HOLY ONES
    26 Daniel continued to describe his vision, saying: “I kept on beholding when that very horn made war upon the holy ones, and it was prevailing against them.” (Daniel 7:21) Regarding this “horn,” or king, God’s angel foretold: “He will speak even words against the Most High, and he will harass continually the holy ones themselves of the Supreme One. And he will intend to change times and law, and they will be given into his hand for a time, and times and half a time.” (Daniel 7:25) How and when was this part of the prophecy fulfilled?
    27 “The holy ones” persecuted by the “small” horn—the Anglo-American World Power—are Jesus’ spirit-anointed followers on earth. (Romans 1:7; 1 Peter 2:9) For years before World War I, the remnant of these anointed ones publicly warned that 1914 would see the conclusion of “the appointed times of the nations.” (Luke 21:24) When war broke out in that year, it was evident that the “small” horn had ignored this warning, for it persisted in harassing the anointed “holy ones.” The Anglo-American World Power even opposed their efforts to carry out Jehovah’s requirement (or, “law”) that the good news of the Kingdom be preached worldwide by his witnesses. (Matthew 24:14) Thus the “small” horn attempted “to change times and law.”
    28 Jehovah’s angel referred to a prophetic period of “a time, and times and half a time.” How long is that? Bible expositors generally agree that this expression denotes three and a half times—the sum of one time, two times, and half a time. Since Nebuchadnezzar’s “seven times” of madness amounted to seven years, the three and a half times are three and a half years. (Daniel 4:16, 25) An American Translation reads: “They shall be handed over to him for a year, two years, and half a year.” James Moffatt’s version says: “For three years and half a year.” The same period is mentioned at Revelation 11:2-7, which states that God’s witnesses would preach dressed in sackcloth for 42 months, or 1,260 days, and then be killed. When did this time period begin and end?
    29 For the anointed Christians, World War I meant a time of testing. By the end of 1914, they were expecting persecution. In fact, the very yeartext chosen for 1915 was Jesus’ question to his disciples, “Are ye able to drink of my cup?” It was based on Matthew 20:22, King James Version. Hence, beginning in December 1914, that small band of witnesses preached “in sackcloth.”
    30 As war fever took hold, the anointed Christians encountered mounting opposition. Some of them were imprisoned. Individuals, such as Frank Platt in England and Robert Clegg in Canada, were tortured by sadistic authorities. On February 12, 1918, the British Dominion of Canada banned the recently published seventh volume of Studies in the Scriptures, entitled The Finished Mystery, as well as the tracts entitled The Bible Students Monthly. The following month, the U.S. Department of Justice pronounced the distribution of the seventh volume illegal. The result? Why, homes were searched, literature was confiscated, and Jehovah’s worshipers were arrested!
    31 Harassment of God’s anointed ones climaxed on June 21, 1918, when the president, J. F. Rutherford, and prominent members of the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society were sentenced on false charges to long prison terms. Intending “to change times and law,” the “small” horn had effectively killed the organized preaching work. (Revelation 11:7) So the foretold period of “a time, and times and half a time” ended in June 1918.
    32 But “the holy ones” were not wiped out by the harassment from the “small” horn. As prophesied in the book of Revelation, after a short period of inactivity, the anointed Christians became alive and active again. (Revelation 11:11-13) On March 26, 1919, the president of the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society and his associates were released from prison, and they were later exonerated of the false charges against them. Immediately thereafter, the anointed remnant began to reorganize for further activity. What, though, would be in store for the “small” horn?
    THE ANCIENT OF DAYS HOLDS COURT
    33 After introducing the four beasts, Daniel shifts his eyes from the fourth beast to a scene in heaven. He beholds the Ancient of Days sit down on his resplendent throne as Judge. The Ancient of Days is none other than Jehovah God. (Psalm 90:2) As the heavenly Court takes its seat, Daniel sees ‘books being opened.’ (Daniel 7:9, 10) Since Jehovah’s existence extends into the infinite past, he knows all human history as if it were written in a book. He has observed all four symbolic beasts and can pass judgment upon them according to firsthand knowledge.
    34 Daniel continues: “I kept on beholding at that time because of the sound of the grandiose words that the horn was speaking; I kept on beholding until the beast was killed and its body was destroyed and it was given to the burning fire. But as for the rest of the beasts, their rulerships were taken away, and there was a lengthening in life given to them for a time and a season.” (Daniel 7:11, 12) The angel tells Daniel: “The Court itself proceeded to sit, and his own rulership they finally took away, in order to annihilate him and to destroy him totally.”—Daniel 7:26.
    35 By decree of the Great Judge, Jehovah God, the horn that blasphemed God and harassed his “holy ones” will have the same experience as the Roman Empire, which persecuted the early Christians. Its rulership will not continue. Neither will that of inferior hornlike “kings” that came out of the Roman Empire. What, though, about the rulerships derived from the previous beastly powers? As foretold, their lives were lengthened “for a time and a season.” Their territories have continued to have inhabitants to our day. Iraq, for example, occupies the territory of ancient Babylon. Persia (Iran) and Greece still exist. Remnants of these world powers are part of the United Nations. These kingdoms also will perish with the annihilation of the last world power. All human governments will be obliterated at “the war of the great day of God the Almighty.” (Revelation 16:14, 16) But, then, who will rule the world?
    LASTING RULERSHIP JUST AHEAD!
    36 “I kept on beholding in the visions of the night, and, see there!” exclaimed Daniel. “With the clouds of the heavens someone like a son of man happened to be coming; and to the Ancient of Days he gained access, and they brought him up close even before that One.” (Daniel 7:13) When on earth, Jesus Christ called himself “the Son of man,” indicating his kinship to mankind. (Matthew 16:13; 25:31) To the Sanhedrin, or Jewish high court, Jesus said: “You will see the Son of man sitting at the right hand of power and coming on the clouds of heaven.” (Matthew 26:64) So in Daniel’s vision, the one coming, invisible to human eyes, and gaining access to Jehovah God was the resurrected, glorified Jesus Christ. When did this occur?
    37 With Jesus Christ, God has made a covenant for a Kingdom, just as he had made one with King David. (2 Samuel 7:11-16; Luke 22:28-30) When “the appointed times of the nations” ended in 1914 C.E., Jesus Christ, as David’s royal heir, could rightfully receive Kingdom rule. Daniel’s prophetic record reads: “To him there were given rulership and dignity and kingdom, that the peoples, national groups and languages should all serve even him. His rulership is an indefinitely lasting rulership that will not pass away, and his kingdom one that will not be brought to ruin.” (Daniel 7:14) Thus the Messianic Kingdom was established in heaven in 1914. However, the rulership is given to others also.
    38 “The holy ones of the Supreme One will receive the kingdom,” said the angel. (Daniel 7:18, 22, 27) Jesus Christ is the chief holy one. (Acts 3:14; 4:27, 30) The other “holy ones” having a share in the rulership are the 144,000 faithful spirit-anointed Christians, who are Kingdom heirs with Christ. (Romans 1:7; 8:17; 2 Thessalonians 1:5; 1 Peter 2:9) They are resurrected from death as immortal spirits to reign with Christ on heavenly Mount Zion. (Revelation 2:10; 14:1; 20:6) Hence, Christ Jesus and the resurrected anointed Christians will rule the world of mankind.
    39 Concerning the rulership of the Son of man and the other resurrected “holy ones,” God’s angel said: “The kingdom and the rulership and the grandeur of the kingdoms under all the heavens were given to the people who are the holy ones of the Supreme One. Their kingdom is an indefinitely lasting kingdom, and all the rulerships will serve and obey even them.” (Daniel 7:27) What blessings obedient mankind will experience under that Kingdom!
     
    *** w12 6/15 pp. 15-16 pars. 6-11 Jehovah Reveals What “Must Shortly Take Place” ***
     
    THE ANGLO-AMERICAN WORLD POWER AND THE FEET OF IRON AND CLAY
    7 What is the relationship between the seventh head of the wild beast and the immense image? Britain—and by extension, the United States—grew out of the Roman Empire. What, though, about the feet of the image? They are described as an amalgam of iron and clay. (Read Daniel 2:41-43.) This description coincides with the time when the seventh head—the Anglo-American World Power—would come to prominence. Just as an iron structure mixed with clay is weaker than solid iron, so too the Anglo-American World Power is weaker than the power from which it emerged. How?
    8 At times, the seventh head of the beast has displayed ironlike characteristics. For example, it proved its power by winning World War I. During World War II, the ironlike power of the seventh head was also evident. After that war, the seventh head at times still displayed ironlike characteristics. However, from early on, that iron has been mixed with clay.
    9 Jehovah’s servants have long sought to understand the symbolic meaning of the feet of the image. Daniel 2:41 describes the mixture of iron and clay as one “kingdom,” not many. The clay, therefore, represents elements within the sphere of influence of the Anglo-American World Power, elements that make it weaker than the solid iron of the Roman Empire. The clay is referred to as “the offspring of mankind,” or the common people. (Dan. 2:43) In the Anglo-American World Power, people have risen up to claim their rights through civil rights campaigns, labor unions, and independence movements. The common people undermine the ability of the Anglo-American World Power to act with ironlike strength. Also, opposing ideologies and close election results that do not end up in a clear majority have weakened the power base of even popular leaders, so that they have no clear mandate to implement their policies. Daniel foretold: “The kingdom will partly prove to be strong and will partly prove to be fragile.”—Dan. 2:42; 2 Tim. 3:1-3.
    10 In the 21st century, Britain and the United States have continued their special partnership, often acting together in world affairs. The prophecies about the immense image and the wild beast confirm that the Anglo-American World Power will not be replaced by some future world power. This last world power may be weaker than that represented by the legs of iron, but it will not disintegrate on its own.
    11 Does the number of toes of the image have special meaning? Consider: In other visions, Daniel mentions specific numbers—for example, the number of horns on the heads of various beasts. Those numbers are significant. However, when describing the image, Daniel does not mention the number of toes. Therefore, the number seems no more significant than the fact that the image had multiple arms, hands, fingers, legs, and feet. Daniel does specifically mention that the toes would be made of iron and clay. From his description, we can conclude that the Anglo-American World Power is the one that will be dominating when the “stone” representing God’s Kingdom hits the feet of the image.—Dan. 2:45.
     
     
    Who rules the world right now?
     
    The Rulers of the World Identified
    There is no need to guess at the matter, for the Bible clearly shows that an intelligent, unseen person has been controlling both men and nations. It says: “The whole world is lying in the power of the wicked one.” And the Bible identifies him, saying: “The one called Devil and Satan . . . is misleading the entire inhabited earth.”—1 John 5:19; Revelation 12:9.
    On an occasion when Jesus was “tempted by the Devil,” Jesus did not question Satan’s role as the ruler of this world. The Bible explains what happened: “The Devil took him along to an unusually high mountain, and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their glory, and he said to him: ‘All these things I will give you if you fall down and do an act of worship to me.’ Then Jesus said to him: ‘Go away, Satan!’”—Matthew 4:1, 8-10.
    Think about this. Satan tempted Jesus by offering him “all the kingdoms of the world.” Yet, would Satan’s offer have been a real temptation if Satan was not actually the ruler of these kingdoms? No, it would not. And note, Jesus did not deny that all these worldly governments were Satan’s, which he would have done if Satan did not have power over them. So, then, Satan the Devil really is the unseen ruler of the world! The Bible, in fact, calls him “the god of this system of things.” (2 Corinthians 4:4) Yet, how did such a wicked person ever come into this powerful position?
    The one who became Satan had been an angel created by God, but he became envious of God’s position. He challenged God’s rightful rulership. To this end he used a serpent as a mouthpiece to deceive the first woman, Eve, and was thus able to get her and her husband, Adam, to do his bidding rather than obey God. (Genesis 3:1-6; 2 Corinthians 11:3) He also claimed he could turn all of Adam and Eve’s yet unborn offspring away from God. So God allowed time for Satan to try to prove his claim, but Satan has not succeeded.—Job 1:6-12; 2:1-10.
    Significantly, Satan is not alone in his rulership of the world. He was successful in persuading some of the other angels to join him in rebellion against God. These became demons, his spirit accomplices. The Bible speaks of them when it urges Christians: “Stand firm against the machinations of the Devil; because we have a wrestling, not against blood and flesh, but . . . against the world rulers of this darkness, against the wicked spirit forces in the heavenly places.”—Ephesians 6:11, 12.
     
    Why we must pray for the Kingdom to come
     
    *** w15 6/15 pp. 22-24 Live in Harmony With the Model Prayer—Part I ***
    “LET YOUR KINGDOM COME”
    11 Before Jesus ascended to heaven, his apostles asked: “Lord, are you restoring the kingdom to Israel at this time?” Jesus’ answer showed that it was not the time for them to know when God’s Kingdom would start ruling. He told his disciples to focus on the important witnessing work that they needed to do. (Read Acts 1:6-8.) Nevertheless, Jesus taught his followers to look forward to the coming of God’s Kingdom. So Christians since the days of the apostles have been praying for it to come.
    12 When the time approached for God’s Kingdom in the hands of Jesus to start ruling from heaven, Jehovah helped his people to understand the timing of events. In 1876, an article written by Charles Taze Russell was published in the magazine Bible Examiner. That article, “Gentile Times: When Do They End?,” pointed to 1914 as a significant year. The article linked the “seven times” of Daniel’s prophecy with “the appointed times of the nations” spoken of by Jesus.—Dan. 4:16; Luke 21:24.
    13 In 1914, war broke out between nations of Europe—a war that spread and engulfed the whole world. By the time it ended in 1918, terrible food shortages had been experienced and there was a flu epidemic in which more people died than were killed in the war. Thus “the sign” that Jesus had given to identify his invisible presence as earth’s new King started to be fulfilled. (Matt. 24:3-8; Luke 21:10, 11) Ample evidence points to the year 1914 as the time when “a crown was given” to the Lord Jesus Christ. He “went out conquering and to complete his conquest.” (Rev. 6:2) He cleansed the heavens in a war against Satan and his demons, who were hurled down to the vicinity of the earth. Ever since, mankind has experienced the truthfulness of these inspired words: “Woe for the earth and for the sea, because the Devil has come down to you, having great anger, knowing that he has a short period of time.”—Rev. 12:7-12.
    14 The prophecy recorded at Revelation 12:7-12 explains why the birth of God’s Kingdom basically coincided with the beginning of the disastrous events that continue to plague mankind. Jesus, the King of God’s Kingdom, began to rule amid his enemies. Until his conquest is complete and he has brought an end to wickedness on earth, we will continue to pray for God’s Kingdom to come. At the same time, we must live in harmony with such prayers by sharing in the fulfillment of a most amazing feature of “the sign.” Jesus foretold: “This good news of the Kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come.”—Matt. 24:14.
    “LET YOUR WILL TAKE PLACE . . . ON EARTH”
    15 About 6,000 years ago, God’s will was being done perfectly on earth. That is why Jehovah could look upon the fine start he had given to mankind and say: “It was very good.” (Gen. 1:31) Then Satan rebelled, and ever since, comparatively few humans have done God’s will on earth. But today we are privileged to be alive at a time when about eight million Witnesses not only are praying for God’s will to take place on earth but also are striving to live in harmony with that prayer. They do so by their way of life and by having a zealous share in the disciple-making work.
    16 For example, a sister who was baptized in 1948 and who served as a missionary in Africa says: “In line with this part of the model prayer, I often pray that all sheeplike people will be contacted and helped to come to know Jehovah before it is too late. Also, when I am about to witness to someone, I ask for wisdom to reach the person’s heart. And regarding sheeplike ones who have already been found, I pray that Jehovah will bless our efforts to care for them.” Little wonder that this 80-year-old sister has success in her ministry and, along with aid from others, has helped many to become Jehovah’s Witnesses. No doubt you can think of other good examples of individuals who pour themselves out in doing God’s will despite the limitations of old age.—Read Philippians 2:17.
    17 Until the enemies of God’s Kingdom are removed from the earth, we will continue to pray for God’s will to be done. Then we will see God’s will taking place in an even more complete way as billions are resurrected on a paradise earth. “Do not be amazed at this,” Jesus said, “for the hour is coming in which all those in the memorial tombs will hear [my] voice and come out.” (John 5:28, 29) What a wonderful time to be alive to welcome back our dead loved ones! God “will wipe out every tear from [our] eyes.” (Rev. 21:4) Most resurrected ones will be “the unrighteous,” who lived and died without learning the truth about Jehovah God and his Son. It will be a privilege to impart knowledge of God’s will and purpose to resurrected ones, thereby helping them to qualify for “everlasting life.”—Acts 24:15; John 17:3.
    18 Universal peace and harmony depend on the sanctification of Jehovah’s name by means of God’s Kingdom. Thus, the complete answer to the first three requests of the model prayer will fulfill mankind’s greatest needs. Meanwhile, we have other vital needs that are mentioned in the remaining four requests in Jesus’ model prayer. They will be discussed in the following article.
     
  20. Upvote
    Melinda Mills got a reaction from OtherSheep in ALL aspects of 1914 doctrine are now problematic from a Scriptural point of view   
    15 hours ago, JW Insider said:
    “Saw something interesting on this scripture related to the Bible reading (Ezekiel 12) for next week:
    (2 Peter 3:3,4) 3 First of all know this, that in the last days ridiculers will come with their ridicule, proceeding according to their own desires 4 and saying: “Where is this promised presence of his? Why, from the day our forefathers fell asleep in death, all things are continuing exactly as they were from creation’s beginning.”
    The first thing was the cross reference from the NWT. The pre-2013 NWT cross-referenced 2 Pet 3:4 to Ezekiel 12:27 and I think I might have misunderstood the value of the cross-reference:
    (Ezekiel 12:27) “Son of man, look! those of the house of Israel are saying, ‘The vision that he is visioning is many days off, and respecting times far off he is prophesying.’
    Without the context, this verse alone looks like a discussion about patience in waiting for the fulfillment of the promised prophecy. After all, Peter will go on to say that in Jehovah's timetable something could go on for a 1,000 years in our time, but could still be like a day in Jehovah's eyes. Of course, the verse in 2 Peter (and also the verse in Ezekiel 12) is not about fact that something might be fulfilled in a far off time, but about the ridicule.
    In the rNWT this is made easier to see by adding another verse from the context of this one in Ezekiel 12. Now, the 2013 Revised NWT includes the following verse in the cross-references:
    (Ezekiel 12:22) 22 “Son of man, what is this proverb that you have in Israel that says, ‘The days go by, and every vision comes to nothing’?
    Now it makes sense, that Israel had seen so many prophets and visionaries declare things that didn't come true so often that it had become like the fable of "the boy who cried wolf." (Also, btw, I found this verse to be much more readily understandable in the new rNWT.) @ComfortMyPeople reminded me of this verse when he spoke about how we have plenty of precedent for handling error. We need not be discouraged overmuch, as if this is something that should never be expected to happen. Imagine being in a congregation where some of them were saying there was no resurrection!
    Another verse that has been added to the cross-references to the passage in 2 Peter 3:3 is the first verse in the passage below:
    (Jeremiah 17:15, 16) 15 Look! There are those saying to me: “Where is the word of Jehovah? Let it come, please!” 16 But as for me, I did not run away from following you as a shepherd, Nor did I long for the day of disaster. You well know everything my lips have spoken; It all took place before your face!
    It's interesting that 2 Peter is about "ridiculers" but this verse is about a person who does not want to be a ridiculer, but is anxiously looking for the promised prophecy to come true. I added the next verse because it provides another interesting point that the person is not going to leave Jehovah just because of a perceived delay, but also he is not longing for the day of disaster. Perhaps it refers to the right attitude toward God's judgments.
    One last point is that those who read both 2 Peter 3 and the parallels in the book of Jude might be surprised to see that both of these books together make a very consistent point that they were already in the "last days." It is both now and all the way back through to the first centuries that Christians would expect to hear persons ridicule them by saying "Where is this promised parousia?" and they would make the point that things are going on pretty much as they always were.
    In Jude it's also easy to see that he was speaking about the "last days" or "last time" having already started in Jude's day:
    (Jude 16-20) 16 These men are murmurers, complainers about their lot in life, following their own desires, and their mouths make grandiose boasts, while they are flattering others for their own benefit. 17 As for you, beloved ones, call to mind the sayings that have been previously spoken by the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ, 18 how they used to say to you: “In the last time there will be ridiculers, following their own desires for ungodly things.” 19 These are the ones who cause divisions, animalistic men, not having spirituality. 20 But you, beloved ones, build yourselves up on your most holy faith, and pray with holy spirit,
    Of course, if it were about our own day, and if the parousia was going to be a long period of time, such as 103-plus years, for example, then the real response would be: "Don't you know that things are NOT going on as they always were? Didn't you notice the big wars and earthquakes that started the parousia? Are you blind to the sign?"
    The "parousia" of course is a "visitation" and it came on Jerusalem 37 years after Jesus prophesied such a visitation. We can see that the visitation (parousia) wasn't the entire period of the generation with its great wars and great earthquakes in one place after another and pestilences and food shortages. It was the final visitation event when judgment was visited upon Jerusalem:
    (Matthew 23:35-38) . . .there may come upon you all the righteous blood spilled on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zech·a·riʹah son of Bar·a·chiʹah, whom you murdered between the sanctuary and the altar. 36 Truly I say to you, all these things will come upon this generation. 37 “Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the killer of the prophets and stoner of those sent to her—how often I wanted to gather your children together the way a hen gathers her chicks under her wings! But you did not want it. 38 Look! Your house is abandoned to you.
    It must have been especially important when speaking of the final visitation of judgment (parousia) to remind the ridiculers that there was a good reason that things were going on just as they had been since the days of their forefathers. It's because, if there was not going to be a sign in advance, that it (the visitation - parousia) would come quickly and suddenly and without warning as a thief. Just as in Noah's day, when the world was apart from the water, then suddenly in the midst of water:
    (2 Peter 3:5, 6) 5 For they deliberately ignore this fact, that long ago there were heavens and an earth standing firmly out of water and in the midst of water by the word of God; 6 and that by those means the world of that time suffered destruction when it was flooded with waters.
    Jesus was the one who had said that things WOULD go on just as they had been going on in the days of their forefathers.
    (Matthew 24:37-41) 37 For just as the days of Noah were, so the presence of the Son of man will be. 38 For as they were in those days before the Flood, eating and drinking, men marrying and women being given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark, 39 and they took no note until the Flood came and swept them all away, so the presence of the Son of man will be. 40 Then two men will be in the field; one will be taken along and the other abandoned. 41 Two women will be grinding at the hand mill; one will be taken along and the other abandoned.
    This is just like when Paul said that it would also be a time when they were calling out peace and security! (Wars would occur but they would not be a defining sign of his parousia.) The ridicule is not about claiming that the parousia wasn't really there, it was ridiculing the delay of the parousia, just as they were ridiculing the delay of the judgment visitation in Ezekiel 12. The only advance warning we have is the reminder that it will come as a thief and we should therefore watch what sort of persons we should be at all times:
    (2 Peter 3:11-18) 11 Since all these things are to be dissolved in this way, consider what sort of people you ought to be in holy acts of conduct and deeds of godly devotion, 12 as you await and keep close in mind the presence [visitation] of the day of Jehovah,. . . 14 Therefore, beloved ones, since you are awaiting these things, do your utmost to be found finally by him spotless and unblemished and in peace. 15 Furthermore, consider the patience of our Lord as salvation,. . . 17 You, therefore, beloved ones, having this advance knowledge, be on your guard so that you may not be led astray with them by the error of the lawless people and fall from your own steadfastness. 18 No, but go on growing in the undeserved kindness and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To him be the glory both now and to the day of eternity. . . .”
     
    ============
     
    You must have put a great deal of time into this research. Very much appreciated. 
    Though you make your points very well in this dissertation, I still believe, that the previous understanding can go alongside this without doing much harm because as you well pointed out:
    “the person is not going to leave Jehovah just because of a perceived delay, but also he is not longing for the day of disaster. Perhaps it refers to the right attitude toward God's judgments.”
     
    The discussion of 1914 date and the generation understanding both emanate from a perceived delay and wanting to find our more so we can be prepared.
     
     Our attitude towards God’s judgements is what is important as you stated above, if I understand you correctly.  
    We continue to pray for God’s Kingdom to come but meanwhile work on ourselves. (Matt 6:9,10)  As imperfect people, righteous ones are “scarcely” being saved, so we have to take care.  Leave the judging to Jehovah, show a waiting attitude. Love your enemies,continue to do good to them, including warning them. Jehovah is the one who will take vengeance – he can read hearts.
     
    (1 Peter 4:18) 18 “And if the righteous man is being saved with difficulty, what will happen to the ungodly man and the sinner?”
     
     (2 Peter 3:8, 9) However, do not let this escape your notice, beloved ones, that one day is with Jehovah as a thousand years and a thousand years as one day. 9 Jehovah is not slow concerning his promise, as some people consider slowness, but he is patient with you because he does not desire anyone to be destroyed but desires all to attain to repentance.
     
    (2 Peter 3:15) Furthermore, consider the patience of our Lord as salvation, just as our beloved brother Paul also wrote you according to the wisdom given him,
     
    These scriptures were addressed to the Christian congregation and show that we need to use the present time to become known by Jehovah. We must not think Jehovah is slow as his timetable does not  necessarily concur with our lifespan. 2 Peter 3:8. 
     
    Also the understanding  of Ezekiel 9 that we are being marked for salvation by the Jesus who has been appointed to be the Judge the living and the dead, at a later time nearer to Armageddon, should impress upon us the need to have the right attitude towards others at all time. We are not here to judge anyone or mark anyone, only to inform them of Jehovah’s purposes, as he will not need the stones to cry out, but we will offer ourselves willingly. (Ps 110:3) So we are grateful for this understanding.
     
    Remember too how urgent it seems that Naboth and his sons need to have justice.  But Jehovah will resurrect him in the new system. He has to wait.  Also Abel, Zechariah and lots more whose blood cried out for justice.  We need the right attitude and to wait on Jehovah, the Judge of all the earth.
    Some points to ponder in this article.
    *** w78 10/15 pp. 14-15 pars. 5-7 Bearing the Burden of Injustice ***
    5 Asaph apparently was not alone in being adversely affected by what he witnessed. He goes on to say: “Therefore he brings his people back hither, and the waters of what is full are drained out for them. And they have said: ‘How has God come to know? And does there exist knowledge in the Most High?’” (Ps. 73:10, 11) When thinking about the way in which the wicked appear to get by with their lawlessness, the righteous find this very disturbing. They cannot put it out of their mind. Again and again they return to it. The effect on them is comparable to their having to drink a bitter potion. This moves them to ask: ‘How can God tolerate these things? Does he not see what is going on?’
    6 Comparing his own lot with the prosperous condition of the wicked, Asaph exclaimed: “Surely it is in vain that I have cleansed my heart and that I wash my hands in innocence itself. And I came to be plagued all day long, and my correction is every morning.” (Ps. 73:12-14) Thus the psalmist actually began to think that it was useless to lead an upright life. While the wicked were enjoying prosperity, he was plagued constantly. He felt that God was correcting or reproving him every morning. The wicked, however, appeared to be getting by with the grossest of wrongdoing.
    7 Nevertheless, Asaph realized that it was wrong for him to give in to such thinking. He said: “Had I let myself talk on in this fashion, I should have betrayed the family of God. So I set myself to think this out but I found it too hard for me.” (Ps. 73:15, 16, The New English Bible) Yes, the psalmist recognized that his viewing service to God as vain would actually mean his being disloyal to the faithful ones. Then, too, his giving way to public expression of doubt could have undermined the faith of some. Though he tried to straighten out his thinking, Asaph simply could not reconcile how the wicked could get by with their wrongdoing, while righteous persons were suffering.
    In your well researched dissertation, I think you can go a little further to explain these. You usually have much resources.
    1.       If you care to, kindly explain this some more for me. I thought it referred to the fact that it didn’t rain, and that the water canopy was suspended above the earth.
    “Just as in Noah's day, when the world was apart from the water, then suddenly in the midst of water:
    “(2 Peter 3:5, 6) 5 For they deliberately ignore this fact, that long ago there were heavens and an earth standing firmly out of water and in the midst of water by the word of God; 6 and that by those means the world of that time suffered destruction when it was flooded with waters.”
    2.        I think you should explain this statement some more:
    “Now it makes sense, that Israel had seen so many prophets and visionaries declare things that didn't come true so often that it had become like the fable of "the boy who cried wolf."
    You might wish to explain that they died before the fulfillments took place, e.g. Nineveh destroyed after Jonah’s time. Not that they did not come true.  The problem with Israel is that they did not have faith in Jehovah like their forefather Abraham
  21. Like
    Melinda Mills got a reaction from Anna in LIVE BLOG: Jehovah's Witnesses Appeal Russian Supreme Court Ruling   
    "Little wife" is a translation of someone's surname.  It happened the last time also.
  22. Like
    Melinda Mills reacted to Evacuated in LIVE BLOG: Jehovah's Witnesses Appeal Russian Supreme Court Ruling   
    Good advice actually (seriously). I'll check out your 7000 posts again......but later, (koff), I have got to watch some paint dry first.

  23. Haha
    Melinda Mills got a reaction from Bible Speaks in SAVE US! – ???– How He Will Save All Animals   
    Welsh people are from Wales. Never heard of Wales/Whales from Wales.
     
  24. Like
    Melinda Mills reacted to TrueTomHarley in LIVE BLOG: Jehovah's Witnesses Appeal Russian Supreme Court Ruling   
    America is bombing more countries than is he.
    Look, he's not my pal, but we are wrong if we demonize anyone personally - it's just buying into Western media. Who is there knowing whether with him it will one day be: "The man who formerly persecuted us is not declaring the good news about the faith that he formerly devastated."
    No, I don't think it likely, either. But neither was it with Paul. Why poison the well?
    And you feel the same way, most likely. It's just that with such a blatant injustice, it is hard not to look for a human villain. That is easy to understand.
    It's good that you are here, putting in the loyal comments that you do.
  25. Upvote
    Melinda Mills reacted to Arauna in LIVE BLOG: Jehovah's Witnesses Appeal Russian Supreme Court Ruling   
    Report post     My observations of reality the way reality REALLY IS may be callous
    What is reality?   Each person experiences reality in a different way except when we collectively accept the reality of Jehovah and the reality of his restoration project of the earth (as written in the bible) and the values of good and bad it instills in us. We hence can say : if we follow the truth of the bible we are focusing on the true reality.  All other stuff is really going to become garbage in future although these ugly, painful things are now a part of our collective reality.
    My definition of true faith is based on Hebrew 11:1 : it is the search for reality (evidence) and how this reality will affect your view on all life on earth, human and animal.
    Is this not also the definition of science?  The search for reality and how this will affect your view of all other life?   Take for example the theory of evolution - to some this is reality..... even though the "evidence" is not there!  And how did this theory affect their view of other life?  Well Nazi Germany is a good example.  The idea of survival of the fittest gave way to "engineering of the german nation" and discarding disabled or other nations (not seen as worthy) to be exterminated....
    While we may accept the reality of the Kingdom and its future hope we may be at odds with the teachings of the Bible.  Our reality can be affected by being too egotistical, too brazen, too disruptive, too critical, too unloving.  How do we use our power?  All of us have power over each other and we can cooperate or be a dissonant sound.
    If a child does not listen to his parents he is actually using the power he has over them to make their lives a misery.  Similarly, it is easy to put the blame elsewhere and criticize the brothers when the finger is pointing back at us.  How humble are you to try to always cooperate and work together - be a force for good.   
    Use your powers for building others up - not being the disruptive sound in the orchestra.  One can still exercise your talents and be an individual without stepping onto the toes of everyone else.  Be emotionally sensitive.  Work hard - not just on the  IQ but more so - on the Emotional IQ. 
    There are many brothers and sisters with exceptional talents but they keep these in check (in their place) to put Jehovah first.
     
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