Jump to content
The World News Media

Jesus.defender

Member
  • Posts

    435
  • Joined

  • Last visited

Reputation Activity

  1. Upvote
    Jesus.defender got a reaction from James Thomas Rook Jr. in False Prophecies   
    Which quote or reference is WRONG?
     
    I know you guys are NOT allowed to think for yourselves. ie:
     
    1983 "Avoid independent thinking...questioning the counsel that is provided by God's visible organization." (Watchtower, Jan. 15, 1983 pg. 22)
    1983 "Fight against independent thinking." (Watchtower, Jan. 15, 1983 pg. 27 )
     
     
    But, i quote YOUR sources.

    What grudge? I am just sharing the truth from the watchtower!
  2. Downvote
    Jesus.defender got a reaction from Foreigner in How are we to understand the GB/Slave interpreting scripture, as the sole chanel, and at the same time accept that they can err?   
    True. How can we trust the current "light" they have if it is going to "get brighter" or get replaced by "new light" maybe tomorrow?
    "Avoid independent thinking...questioning the counsel that is provided by God's visible organization. ( ie: the watchtower organisation )" (Watchtower, Jan. 15, 1983 pg. 22)

    "Fight against independent thinking." (Watchtower, Jan. 15, 1983 pg. 27 )

    "Thus the Bible is an organizational book and belongs to the Christian congregation as an organization ( ie: the watchtower ), not to individuals, regardless of how sincerely they may believe that they can interpret the Bible." (The Watchtower, Oct. 1, 1967, p. 587.)

    "All who want to understand the Bible should appreciate that the "greatly diversified wisdom of God" can become known only through Jehovah's channel of communication, the faithful and discreet slave.( ie: the watchtower )" (The Watchtower, Oct. 1, 1994, p. 8.)

    "So, does Jehovah have a prophet to help them, to warn them of dangers and to declare things to come?  These questions can be answered in the affirmative. Who is this prophet? . . . This "prophet" was not one man, but was a body of men and women. It was the small group of footstep followers of Jesus Christ, known at that time as International Bible Students. Today they are known as Jehovah's Christian witnesses . . . Of course, it is easy to say that this group acts as a "prophet" of God. It is another thing to prove it," (Watchtower, Apr. 1, 1972, p. 197).
     
    "commissioned to serve as the mouthpiece and active agent of Jehovah … commission to speak as a prophet in the name of Jehovah…" The Nations Shall Know that I am Jehovah" - How? pp.58,62
    "… commission to speak as a "prophet" in His name…" Watchtower 1972 Mar 15 p.189
    "The Watchtower is a magazine without equal in the earth …. This is not giving any credit to the magazine's publishers, but is due to the great Author of the Bible with it truths and prophecies, and who now interprets its prophecies." Watchtower 1943 Apr 15 p.127
    "The Watchtower is not the instrument of any man or set of men, nor is it published according to the whims of men. No man's opinion is expressed in The Watchtower. God feeds his own people, and surely God uses those who love and serve him according to his own will. Those who oppose The Watchtower are not capable of discerning the truth that God is giving to the children of his organization, and this is the very strongest proof that such opposers are not of God's organization." Watchtower 1931 Nov 1 p.327
  3. Like
  4. Thanks
    Jesus.defender got a reaction from Srecko Sostar in How are we to understand the GB/Slave interpreting scripture, as the sole chanel, and at the same time accept that they can err?   
    Yes. And the watchtower has a history on being wrong on MANY topics.
    ie: Will the men of Sodom be resurrected?
    Yes....Watchtower 7/1879 page 8
    No.....Watchtower 6/1/52 page 338
    Yes....Watchtower 8/1/65, page 479
    No.....Watchtower 6/1/88, page 31
    Yes...Live Forever (old Ed.) page 179
    No....Live Forever (new Ed.) page 179
    Yes...Insight, vol. 2., page 985
    No...Revelation book, page 273.
     
    6,000 years from Adam ended in A.D. 1872. (Daily Heavenly Manna, inside cover page)
    6,000 years of human history ended in 1873.(The Time is at Hand, p.33)
    6,000 years of human history ended in 1972.(The Truth Shall Make You Free, p.152, 1943 edition)
    6,000 years of human history ended in 1975. (Awake!, October 8th, 1968, page 15).
     
  5. Downvote
  6. Sad
    Jesus.defender got a reaction from Bubba Johnson Jr in How are we to understand the GB/Slave interpreting scripture, as the sole chanel, and at the same time accept that they can err?   
    Yes. And the watchtower has a history on being wrong on MANY topics.
    ie: Will the men of Sodom be resurrected?
    Yes....Watchtower 7/1879 page 8
    No.....Watchtower 6/1/52 page 338
    Yes....Watchtower 8/1/65, page 479
    No.....Watchtower 6/1/88, page 31
    Yes...Live Forever (old Ed.) page 179
    No....Live Forever (new Ed.) page 179
    Yes...Insight, vol. 2., page 985
    No...Revelation book, page 273.
     
    6,000 years from Adam ended in A.D. 1872. (Daily Heavenly Manna, inside cover page)
    6,000 years of human history ended in 1873.(The Time is at Hand, p.33)
    6,000 years of human history ended in 1972.(The Truth Shall Make You Free, p.152, 1943 edition)
    6,000 years of human history ended in 1975. (Awake!, October 8th, 1968, page 15).
     
  7. Upvote
  8. Like
    Jesus.defender got a reaction from Srecko Sostar in BLOOD TRANSFUSIONS   
    BLOOD TRANSFUSIONS
    Watchtower Teaching WT forbids blood transfusions because of Genesis 9:4 ‘But flesh with the life thereof, which is the blood thereof, shall ye not eat’.
    The WT teaches that a blood transfusion is the same as eating blood, because it resembles intravenous feeding. This doctrine was invented in 1944.
    Bible Teaching and Historical facts:
    1) Thousands of JWs and their children have died because they followed this WT error.
    QUESTION: Would you really allow your baby to die because of this WT instruction?
    2) Most JWs are unaware that their leaders have a history of making medical prohibitions,then later changing their minds to allow them. Examples include:
    (i) Vaccinations were forbidden by the WT from 1931 to 1952. JWs had to refuse vaccinations because the WT taught that ‘vaccination is a direct violation of the everlasting covenant that God made’ (Golden Age, 4 Feb 1931, p 293).
    Awake of 22 Aug 1965 admitted that vaccinations have caused a decrease in diseases(p.20)
    QUESTION: How did the parents of children who died from not being vaccinated, feel when the WT reversed its view in 1952? How many of these children died needlessly?
    (ii) Organ transplants were allowed by the WT up to 1967, but were forbidden in 1967 saying that ‘organ transplants amounted to cannibalism and are not appropriate for Christians’ (WT, 15 Nov 1967, p 702-4, and Awake 8 June 1968, p 21). Hence all organ
    transplants were forbidden for 13 years, during which time many JWs died needlessly.
    Then in 1980, the WT changed its mind to allow them saying that ‘organ transplants are not necessarily cannibalistic’ (WT, 15 March 1980, p 31).
    (iii) Blood plasma and blood particles were forbidden to be used by JW haemophiliacs (Awake, 22 Feb 1975, p 30). Shortly after, the WT changed its mind to permit certain blood particles to be used, but failed to put it into print for 3 years until 15 June 1978, p
    30 (WT). Only those haemophiliacs who phoned WT headquarters from 1975-78 discovered the change. Others were left to suffer and die.
    QUESTION: How long before the WT changes its view on blood transfusions?
    QUESTION: Why does the WT keep changing its mind on medical issues?
    QUESTION: Is it right for an infallible prophet of God organisation (such as the WT claims to be) to keep changing its mind.
    (iv) In 1984, they allowed for a bone-marrow transplant. Bone marrow is the very source of blood. However, they would disfellowship you for receiving a bloodtransfusion.
    3) In Genesis 9:4 the context is God forbidding the eating of animal blood (as pagans did), not the transfusion of human blood. A blood transfusion is not intravenous feeding, because the blood so given does not function as food. When one gives a transfusion, it is not a loss of life, but a transference of life from one person to another. It replenishes and saves a life.
    QUESTION: Since blood is not taken in as food to digest, but as life sustaining fluid, is it not clear that transfusion is different from eating?
    4) Leviticus 3:17 ‘You must not eat any fat or any blood at all.’ (NWT)
    QUESTION: Why do WT leaders forbid blood transfusions but allow the eating of fat? Why not forbid both? The WT is not consistently interpreting the Bible. Leviticus 17:11,12: ‘For the life of the flesh is in the blood’. Blood transfusion does not function as food, but simply transfers life from one person to another as an act of mercy.
    Key: Leviticus 3:17 prohibits eating animal blood, not transfusing human blood.
    QUESTION: Where is loss of salvation mentioned in Acts 15:9,11 for receiving a blood transfusion?
    Key: Acts 15:28,29. A blood transfusion uses blood for the same purpose that God intended, (as a life-giving agent in the bloodstream). Drinking blood is not God’s intended purpose for
    blood
    Conclusion: Even though JWs try to support blood transfusions with Scripture, their real reason for believing it is blind obedience to the WT. If the WT organisation lifted its ban on blood transfusions, JWs would freely accept them if needed.
    For the WT to admit they were wrong would cause too great a stir in their ranks. Therefore any changes must be presented as ‘new light’ in order to make it appear that ‘Jehovah’ is making the changes, rather than a few men on the governing body.
     
  9. Downvote
    Jesus.defender got a reaction from Foreigner in THE TRINITY   
  10. Like
    Jesus.defender got a reaction from Srecko Sostar in IS JESUS ‘MICHAEL THE ARCHANGEL’?   
    IS JESUS ‘MICHAEL THE ARCHANGEL’?

    Watchtower Teaching WT claims that Daniel 10:13,21; 12:1; and I Thess 4:16 teach that:
    1) Jesus existed as Michael the archangel before his birth to Mary; then
    2) Jesus gave up his spirit existence as an angel when he entered Mary’s womb to become a
    human;
    3) At the resurrection he was recreated as Michael the archangel.
    They describe Christ’s progressive existence as angel, then human, then angel.
    ‘Michael, one of the chief princes’ (Daniel 10:13). ‘Michael your prince’ (Daniel 10:21).
    ‘Michael the great prince’ (Daniel 12:1). JWs think that Jesus must be Michael because of
    Michael’s authority over other angels as a chief prince.
    The WT teaches that Jesus Christ was Michael the archangel, who was born as a human, died
    and was raised up as an archangel again. They refer to Jesus Christ as Michael the archangel.
    (Watchtower, 15 Feb, 1979, p.31).
    Bible Teaching:
    1) Michael is ‘one of the chief princes’ (10:21), but Jesus Christ is the only begotten Son in
    John 3:16. ‘Begotten’ in Greek is ‘monogenes’ meaning uniqueone of a kind. Michael
    being ‘one of the chief princes’ means that he is just one among a group of chief angels.
    Ask: Where is Jesus called a ‘chief Prince’ in the Bible?
    Ask: Where is Jesus clearly mentioned in Daniel 10:13?
    Ask: Isn’t Jesus as ‘King of kings and Lord of lords’ (Revelation 19:16) much higher in
    authority than one of a group of chief princes?
    2) Ask: ‘To which of the angels did God ever say ‘thou art my son’?’ (Hebrews 1:5)
    3) The Bible mentions Michael the archangel five times as:
    1. ‘Michael, one of the chief princes’ (Daniel 10:13)
    2, ‘Michael, your prince’ (Daniel 10:21)
    3. ‘Michael, the great prince’ (Daniel 12:1)
    4. ‘Michael the archangel . . . durst not bring against him (the devil) a railing accusation, but said The Lord rebuke thee’ (Jude 9)
    5. ‘Michael and his angels fought against the dragon’ (Revelation 12:7)
    Ask: Which of these verses state that Michael is Jesus Christ? None of them.
    4) The WT claims support from I Thessalonians 4:16 ‘the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a commanding call,with an archangel’s voice and with God’s trumpet’(NWT)
    Ask: If using an archangel’s voice makes Jesus an archangel, then having God’s trumpet makes Jesus to be God.
    Note: I Thessalonians 4:16 doesn’t explicitly say that Jesus Himself speaks with the voice of the archangel. When Jesus comes from heaven to rapture the church from earth, He will be accompanied by Michael the archangel. It is the archangel’s voice that shouts, not Jesus’ voice. Jesus doesn’t shout, but Michael does shout. This is like what happens at the end of the seven year tribulation, when Jesus returns ‘from heaven with his mighty angels’ (II Thessalonians 1:7).
    If angels accompany Christ at the end of the 7 year tribulation, then clearly Michael will accompany Christ at the rapture before the 7 year tribulation, so Michael cannot be Jesus.
    5) In Jude 9, Michael did not have the authority to rebuke Satan, but Jesus did have the authority as follows: Jesus said ‘Get thee hence, Satan’ (Matthew 4:10) and ‘Get thee behind me, Satan’ (Mark 8:33)
    Michael said to Satan,‘The Lord rebuke thee’, proving that the only one with the authority to rebuke Satan is God. So, Matt. 4:10 proves that Jesus Christ is the Lord God.
    Ask: Since Michael could not rebuke Satan in his own authority, but Jesus could and did rebuke Satan, doesn’t that mean that Michael and Jesus are different persons?
    6) All the angels (Michael included) are commanded to worship Christ. (Hebrews 1:6)
    7) The writer of Hebrews asks several questions about angels and Jesus Christ, which prove them to be different persons:
    i) ‘Unto which of the angels said he at any time, thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee?’ (Hebrews 1:5)
    ii) ‘To which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool?’ (Hebrews 1:13)
    iii) ‘Unto the angels hath he not put in subjection the world to come (millennium)’ (Hebrews 1:13).
    iv) ‘For verily, he took not on him the nature of angels’ (Hebrews 2:16)
    v) Does Michael sustain all things by the word of his power? (See Hebrews 1:3). No!
    vi) Is it right to honour Michael the archangel just as you honour the Father? (John 5:23)
    😎 Ask: Do good angels refuse worship? (Certainly). When John fell down to worship the angel, the angel rebuked him, saying ‘See thou do it not ....worship God’. (Rev 22:8,9).
    The Father commands all the angels (Michael included) to worship Christ. (Heb 1:6).
    The ‘proskuneo’ worship that angels refuse to accept but say to give to God, the Father commands thissame ‘proskuneo’ worship to be given to the Son. Hence the Son cannot be an angel, but must be God. True Bible students soon discover that Jesus is no mere angel, but God. This lesson must be learnt so they may ‘honour the Son just as they honour the Father’. (John 5:23 NWT).
    9) Jesus Christ is unchangeable: ‘Jesus Christ the same, yesterday and today and forever’. (Hebrews 13:8). The WT view of Jesus is that He was Michael who changed to become a man, and who at his resurrection changed back to Michael the archangel.
    The Watchtower Jesus is changeable. They have a false and different Jesus.
    10) Jesus Christ created all the angels, including the thrones and principalities of which Michael is a chief prince of a principality. ‘For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers’. (Colossians 1:16).
  11. Upvote
    Jesus.defender got a reaction from James Thomas Rook Jr. in False Prophecies   
    Are you ashamed of what the watchtower has said?
  12. Haha
    Jesus.defender got a reaction from Srecko Sostar in False Prophecies   
    Which quote or reference is WRONG?
     
    I know you guys are NOT allowed to think for yourselves. ie:
     
    1983 "Avoid independent thinking...questioning the counsel that is provided by God's visible organization." (Watchtower, Jan. 15, 1983 pg. 22)
    1983 "Fight against independent thinking." (Watchtower, Jan. 15, 1983 pg. 27 )
     
     
    But, i quote YOUR sources.

    What grudge? I am just sharing the truth from the watchtower!
  13. Downvote
    Jesus.defender got a reaction from Queen Esther in JEHOVAH’S NAME or JESUS CHRIST’S NAME.   
    Address the scripture verses i gave. You cannot.
  14. Downvote
    Jesus.defender got a reaction from BillyTheKid46 in Let's Get It On - identify a cult!   
    A cult would say things like:
     
    "Avoid independent thinking...questioning the counsel that is provided by God's visible organization. ( ie: the watchtower organisation )" (Watchtower, Jan. 15, 1983 pg. 22)

    "Fight against independent thinking." (Watchtower, Jan. 15, 1983 pg. 27 )
     
    "All who want to understand the Bible should appreciate that the "greatly diversified wisdom of God" can become known only through Jehovah's channel of communication, the faithful and discreet slave.( ie: the watchtower )" (The Watchtower, Oct. 1, 1994, p. 8.)
     
    “Persons who deliberately spread (stubbornly hold to and speak about) teachings contrary to Bible truth as taught by Jehovah's Witnesses are apostates.” Pay Attention to Yourselves and to All the Flock p.94
     
    “Do not look for excuses to associate with a disfellowshipped family member, for example, through e-mail.” Watchtower Study Edition 2013 Jan 15 p.16
     
    "So, does Jehovah have a prophet to help them, to warn them of dangers and to declare things to come?  These questions can be answered in the affirmative. Who is this prophet? . . . This "prophet" was not one man, but was a body of men and women. It was the small group of footstep followers of Jesus Christ, known at that time as International Bible Students. Today they are known as Jehovah's Christian witnesses . . . Of course, it is easy to say that this group acts as a "prophet" of God. It is another thing to prove it," (Watchtower, Apr. 1, 1972, p. 197).
     
    They will make FALSE prophecies:
     
    "In subsequent chapters we present proofs that the setting up of the Kingdom of God has already begun...And that the "battle of the great day of God almighty [revelation 16:14], which will end in A.D. 1914 with the complete overthrow of the earth's present rulership, is already commenced." SOURCE: "The Time is at Hand; 1889. ( note: The 1915 edition of this book changed "A.D. 1914" to "A.D. 1915." )
     
    "...the 'battle of the great day of God Almighty' (Revelation 16:14), which will end in A.D. 1914 with the complete overthrow of earth's present rulership, is already commenced," SOURCE: The Time Is at Hand, 1908 edition, p. 101.
     
    "Now, in view of recent labor troubles and threatened anarchy, our readers are writing to know if there may not be a mistake in the 1914 date. They do not see how present conditions can hold out so long under the strain. We see no reason for changing the figures - nor could we change them if we would. They are, we believe, God's dates, not ours. But bear in mind that the end of 1914 is not the date for the beginning, but for the end of the time of trouble." Zion's Watch Tower 1894 Jul 15 p.226
     
     








  15. Confused
    Jesus.defender got a reaction from Queen Esther in False Prophecies   
    Then you are NOT a Jehovah's Witness.
    "Avoid independent thinking...questioning the counsel that is provided by God's visible organization. ( ie: the watchtower organisation )" (Watchtower, Jan. 15, 1983 pg. 22)

    "Fight against independent thinking." (Watchtower, Jan. 15, 1983 pg. 27 )
     
    "Fight for Jesus"
    That IS what i am doing right now, my friend.
    "but wthout Jehovah, you NEVER will reach the goal for everlasting life, sorry ;-("
    You are right. _I_ can do NOTHING. JESUS has already done it and promised me eternal, everlasting life.
    "These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God."
    "I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am, ye shall die in your sins." ( DO YOU BELIEVE JESUS IS THE I AM? )
    "Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God." ( HAVE YOU BEEN BORN AGAIN? )
     
  16. Like
    Jesus.defender got a reaction from Srecko Sostar in How are we to understand the GB/Slave interpreting scripture, as the sole chanel, and at the same time accept that they can err?   
    True. How can we trust the current "light" they have if it is going to "get brighter" or get replaced by "new light" maybe tomorrow?
    "Avoid independent thinking...questioning the counsel that is provided by God's visible organization. ( ie: the watchtower organisation )" (Watchtower, Jan. 15, 1983 pg. 22)

    "Fight against independent thinking." (Watchtower, Jan. 15, 1983 pg. 27 )

    "Thus the Bible is an organizational book and belongs to the Christian congregation as an organization ( ie: the watchtower ), not to individuals, regardless of how sincerely they may believe that they can interpret the Bible." (The Watchtower, Oct. 1, 1967, p. 587.)

    "All who want to understand the Bible should appreciate that the "greatly diversified wisdom of God" can become known only through Jehovah's channel of communication, the faithful and discreet slave.( ie: the watchtower )" (The Watchtower, Oct. 1, 1994, p. 8.)

    "So, does Jehovah have a prophet to help them, to warn them of dangers and to declare things to come?  These questions can be answered in the affirmative. Who is this prophet? . . . This "prophet" was not one man, but was a body of men and women. It was the small group of footstep followers of Jesus Christ, known at that time as International Bible Students. Today they are known as Jehovah's Christian witnesses . . . Of course, it is easy to say that this group acts as a "prophet" of God. It is another thing to prove it," (Watchtower, Apr. 1, 1972, p. 197).
     
    "commissioned to serve as the mouthpiece and active agent of Jehovah … commission to speak as a prophet in the name of Jehovah…" The Nations Shall Know that I am Jehovah" - How? pp.58,62
    "… commission to speak as a "prophet" in His name…" Watchtower 1972 Mar 15 p.189
    "The Watchtower is a magazine without equal in the earth …. This is not giving any credit to the magazine's publishers, but is due to the great Author of the Bible with it truths and prophecies, and who now interprets its prophecies." Watchtower 1943 Apr 15 p.127
    "The Watchtower is not the instrument of any man or set of men, nor is it published according to the whims of men. No man's opinion is expressed in The Watchtower. God feeds his own people, and surely God uses those who love and serve him according to his own will. Those who oppose The Watchtower are not capable of discerning the truth that God is giving to the children of his organization, and this is the very strongest proof that such opposers are not of God's organization." Watchtower 1931 Nov 1 p.327
  17. Upvote
    Jesus.defender got a reaction from JOHN BUTLER in Let's Get It On - identify a cult!   
    A cult would say things like:
     
    "Avoid independent thinking...questioning the counsel that is provided by God's visible organization. ( ie: the watchtower organisation )" (Watchtower, Jan. 15, 1983 pg. 22)

    "Fight against independent thinking." (Watchtower, Jan. 15, 1983 pg. 27 )
     
    "All who want to understand the Bible should appreciate that the "greatly diversified wisdom of God" can become known only through Jehovah's channel of communication, the faithful and discreet slave.( ie: the watchtower )" (The Watchtower, Oct. 1, 1994, p. 8.)
     
    “Persons who deliberately spread (stubbornly hold to and speak about) teachings contrary to Bible truth as taught by Jehovah's Witnesses are apostates.” Pay Attention to Yourselves and to All the Flock p.94
     
    “Do not look for excuses to associate with a disfellowshipped family member, for example, through e-mail.” Watchtower Study Edition 2013 Jan 15 p.16
     
    "So, does Jehovah have a prophet to help them, to warn them of dangers and to declare things to come?  These questions can be answered in the affirmative. Who is this prophet? . . . This "prophet" was not one man, but was a body of men and women. It was the small group of footstep followers of Jesus Christ, known at that time as International Bible Students. Today they are known as Jehovah's Christian witnesses . . . Of course, it is easy to say that this group acts as a "prophet" of God. It is another thing to prove it," (Watchtower, Apr. 1, 1972, p. 197).
     
    They will make FALSE prophecies:
     
    "In subsequent chapters we present proofs that the setting up of the Kingdom of God has already begun...And that the "battle of the great day of God almighty [revelation 16:14], which will end in A.D. 1914 with the complete overthrow of the earth's present rulership, is already commenced." SOURCE: "The Time is at Hand; 1889. ( note: The 1915 edition of this book changed "A.D. 1914" to "A.D. 1915." )
     
    "...the 'battle of the great day of God Almighty' (Revelation 16:14), which will end in A.D. 1914 with the complete overthrow of earth's present rulership, is already commenced," SOURCE: The Time Is at Hand, 1908 edition, p. 101.
     
    "Now, in view of recent labor troubles and threatened anarchy, our readers are writing to know if there may not be a mistake in the 1914 date. They do not see how present conditions can hold out so long under the strain. We see no reason for changing the figures - nor could we change them if we would. They are, we believe, God's dates, not ours. But bear in mind that the end of 1914 is not the date for the beginning, but for the end of the time of trouble." Zion's Watch Tower 1894 Jul 15 p.226
     
     








  18. Like
    Jesus.defender reacted to Shiwiii in 1914   
    does this apply to an org that states, no beards, no blood, no birthday? 
    does it apply to an org that says they are the only means/way for salvation?
  19. Downvote
    Jesus.defender reacted to Queen Esther in JEHOVAH’S NAME or JESUS CHRIST’S NAME.   
    Thats so simple...  You also calling  FATHER and NOT the right name of your dad !! 
    ITS NOT A LIE.....
     
  20. Like
    Jesus.defender reacted to Matthew9969 in THE TRINITY   
    The watchtower has again redefined the word trinity to mean Jehovah, Jesus, and the governing body.
  21. Haha
    Jesus.defender got a reaction from Space Merchant in I Corinthians 8:6 - ‘One God the Father . . .’   
    I Corinthians 8:6 - ‘One God the Father . . .’
    ‘But to us there is but one God, the Father . . . and one Lord Jesus Christ . . .’
    Watchtower teaching: JWs argue that, since there is ‘one God’ (Jehovah) who is distinct from ‘one Lord’ (Jesus Christ), then Jesus cannot be God.
    Biblical reasoning: If this WT reasoning is correct, then the same logic leads us to conclude
    that the Father is not Lord.
    Note: If the reference to the Father being the ‘one God’ proves that Jesus is not God, then by the same logic we must conclude that the reference to Jesus Christ as the ‘one Lord’ means that the Father is not Lord. 
    No JW will concede that the Father is not Lord.
    You cannot interpret the first part of the verse one way, and the second part of the verse another way. The faulty logic of JWs here is their assumption that the use of a title for one person (the Father) in one context, automatically rules out its application to another person (Jesus Christ) in another context. JWs should consult what all Scripture says about the Father and about Jesus Christ.
    1. The Father is called Lord in Matthew 11:25: ‘I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth’.
    2. Jesus Christ is called God in John 20:28: ‘My Lord and my God’, and in Hebrews 1:8: ‘Unto the Son he saith: Thy throne O God . . .’ etc.
    Hence ‘God’ and ‘Lord’ are used interchangeably of the Father and the Son.
    Question: ‘Can you see that, since Jesus as one Lord does not mean that the Father is not Lord,
    then by the same logic, the Father as ‘one God’ does not mean that Jesus is not God?’
  22. Downvote
    Jesus.defender got a reaction from derek1956 in JEHOVAH’S NAME or JESUS CHRIST’S NAME.   
    JEHOVAH’S NAME or JESUS CHRIST’S NAME.

    The Watchtower teaches that God’s true Name is Jehovah. They teach that:
    ‘Sometime during the second or third Century CE, the scribes removed the tetragrammaton (JHWH) from both the Septuagint and the Christian Greek Scriptures and replaced it with κυριος (Lord) or θεος (God)’. Reference Edition of NWT, 1984, p 1564.
    The Watchtower’s Kingdom Interlinear Translation (KIT) proves that Jesus is Jehovah God.
    On page 10,11 of the 1985 KIT, under the heading ‘Restoring the Divine Name, Jehovah’ we read: ‘the evidence (what evidence?) is that the original text of the Christian Greek Scriptures has been tampered with (no proof) . . . Sometime during the second or third centuries CE, the Tetragrammaton (YHWH) was eliminated from the Greek texts by copyists (no proof).
    Instead of YHWH they substituted the words Kurios (‘Lord’) and Theos (‘God’).’
    Note: This is a lie. There is no historical or manuscript evidence or evidence of protest to support this claim. Somebody would have protested such a change.No one did. It never happened.
    The New World Translation (NWT) is the JW perversion of the Bible made to support their false doctrines. It inserts the name ‘Jehovah’ in the New Testament in the place of God (θεος=theos) or Lord (κυριος =kurios) on 237 occasions, where they believe it refers to God the
    Father. They often refer to Hebrew translations of the NT to see where this has been done.
    These are footnoted as J1 to J27. Their dishonesty and deceit is shown by their failure to translate these words as ‘Jehovah’ when it refers to Christ. (eg: Philippians 2:11; Hebrews 1:10).
    JWs say that the proper use of God’s ‘correct’ name (Jehovah) is absolutely essential to one’s salvation. They quote from their NWT: 
    ‘Everyone who calls on the name of Jehovah will be saved.’ Romans 10:13 (NWT).
    ‘People will have to know that I am Jehovah.’ Ezekiel 39:6 (NWT).
    JWs believe that because they are the only group who refer to God by His ‘true’ name, Jehovah, they are the only true followers of God.
    Their claim is false for these reasons:
    1) Jehovah is not a Biblical term. It is a man-made term. The Old Testament has YHWH because the original Hebrew only had consonants. Jews feared taking God’s name in vain, so when they publicly read YHWH, they would pronounce it ‘Adonai’ (Lord).
    Later they inserted the vowels from Adonai (a-o-a) into the consonants YHWH to give YAHOWAH, which became Jehovah. Hence, the word Jehovah comes from a consonantvowel
    combination from YHWH and Adonai.
    2) No-one knows for sure the original correct pronunciation of YHWH. Hence we cannot insist on ‘Jehovah’ as being correct.
    3) Jesus never addressed the Father as Jehovah in the New Testament. If JWs are correct that God must be always called Jehovah, then Jesus was sinning by not calling God ‘Jehovah’. When the NWT puts Jehovah in Jesus’ mouth in the NT, it contradicts all the NT manuscripts which don’t have it.
    QUESTION: Since Jesus never in the NT addressed the Father as Jehovah, why should we?
    4) Jesus and the Apostle Paul tell us to address God as ‘Father’:
    a) Jesus taught us to pray to God as ‘Our Father’, not ‘Our Jehovah’: ‘After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father.....’ (Matthew 6:9).
    b) Jesus addressed God as Father in His own prayers:
    ‘I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth’. (Matthew 11:25).
    ‘O my Father, if it be possible.......’ (Matthew 26:39,42).
    ‘He said, Abba, Father.......’ (Mark 14:36).
    ‘ I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven.......’ (Luke 10:21).
    ‘Saying, Father, if thou be willing.......’ (Luke 22:42).
    ‘Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them;.......’ (Luke 23:34).
    ‘Father, the hour is come......’ (John 17:1).
    c) Paul said, ‘we cry, Abba, Father.’ (Romans 8:15).
    d) The Holy Spirit through Paul said, ‘God hath sent forth the Spirit of His Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father’. (Galatians 4:6).
    Here the Holy Spirit of God tells us to call God ‘Abba, Father’, not ‘Jehovah’
    QUESTION: If Jesus, the Holy Spirit and Paul all address God as Father nine times (and never as Jehovah) then shouldn’t we call God ‘Father’?
    5) No Ancient NT manuscripts contain the tetragram (YHWH) to translate as Jehovah.
    The Church writers before 325 AD only mention Jehovah once in passing. JWs tell us that most Bible versions deceive people because they omit Jehovah as God’s Name, so
    the JWs dishonestly add the word ‘Jehovah’ to the NT text, even though it is not in any NT Greek manuscript, ancient version, papyri or lectionary.
    The WT’s claim that ‘Jehovah’ as God’s name was removed from the NT by superstitious scribes, is a total lie with no supporting historical or manuscript evidence.
    6) Whose Name did the early Christians identify themselves with? Was it Jehovah or was it Jesus Christ? Always Jesus Christ, never Jehovah.
    Who knows more, the Apostles or modern JWs? Consider these examples:
    a) The Apostles never used the name ‘Jehovah’.
    b) The Apostles and first century Christians were never called ‘Jehovah’s Witnesses’. ‘The disciples were called Christians first in Antioch.’ (Acts 11:26).
    c) There is no proof that Jesus or his disciples ever pronounced the tetragram YHWH. 
    JWs claim that when Jesus read from Isaiah 61:1 ‘The Spirit of the Lord is upon me....’ as quoted in Luke 4:18,19, that Jesus pronounced the word ‘YHWH’.
    This is most unlikely. JWs assume that the religious leaders endorsing Christ’s ‘gracious words’ in verse 22 was because He uttered the name YHWH?
    Historical records in the Mishnah, from Josephus, and from other sources show the Jews were loathe to allow the name YHWH to be used. The Jews would not have tolerated it being used by anybody but the High Priest.Jesus would have read ‘Adonai’
    7) 119 Bible passages referring to Jehovah, are quoted and applied to Christ in the New Testament (Proof Available)
    QUESTION: In view of 119 Bible verses applying ‘Jehovah’ to Christ in the NT, what does this tell you about who Christ is?
    😎 The New Testament tells us to name the name of Jesus Christ, not the name of Jehovah. Consider these examples:
    1. ‘Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.’(II Timothy 2:19)
    2. ‘I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ . . .’ (I Cor 1:10)
    3. ‘Ye are washed,....sanctified,... justified in the name of the Lord Jesus ’ (I Cor 6:11)
    4. ‘Whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus.’ (Col 3:17)
    5. ‘That the name of our Lord Jesus Christ may be glorified in you....’ (II Thess 1:12)
    6. ‘Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves.....’ (II Thess. 3:6)
    7. ‘all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours.’ (I Corinthians 1:2)
    8. ‘Thou holdest fast my name....’ Jesus said to the Pergamos church. (Revelation 2:13).
    JWs have not held fast Christ’s name, nor have they called upon Christ’s name, nor do they name the name of Christ, nor is Jesus Christ precious to them, because they do not have saving belief in Him. ‘Unto you . . . which believe He is precious’.(I Peter 2:7).
    QUESTION: Where does the NT tell us to name the name of Jehovah?
    9) The New Testament always lifts up Jesus Christ’s name, not Jehovah’s name. Why?
    Because Jesus Christ is Jehovah God on earth. Christ is 100% God and 100% man.
    Q1: In whose name should we meet together?
    ‘Where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.’ (Matthew 18:20)
    Q2: Demons were cast out by the authority of whose name?
    ‘Paul.....said to the spirit, I command thee in the name of Jesus Christ to come out of her.’ (Acts 16:18)
    Q3: In whose name should we preach repentance and forgiveness of sins? ‘And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations. And ye are witnesses of these things.’ (Luke 24:47,48)
    Q4: In whose name are we to believe and receive forgiveness of sins? ‘....through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.’ (Acts 10:43, John 1:12)
    Q5: By whose name, and no other, do we obtain salvation? Acts 4:10,12 says: ‘by the name of Jesus Christ ... Neither is there salvation in any other, for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.’
    Q6: In whose name should we pray? John 16:23,24; 14:13,14; 15:16 says: ‘Whatsoever ye shall ask the Father in my name, he will give it you.’
    Q7: In whose name is the Holy Spirit sent?
    ‘But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name......’ (John 14:26)
    Q8: In whose name and authority did the disciples heal the sick?
    ‘His name through faith in his name hath made this man strong’ (Acts 3:16; 4:30)
    Q9: Whose name did Paul say that we are to call upon?
    ‘ all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord.’ (I Cor 1:2)
    Q10: Whose name is above every name?
    ‘God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name .... that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord.’(Phil 2:9-11)
    Paul’s quote about Christ is from Isaiah 45:22-24 where every knee will bow to Jehovah. What is true about Jehovah, is also true of Christ, the Lord of all mankind
    Q11: According to Acts 1:8, of whom are we to be witnesses?
    ‘Ye shall be witnesses unto me (Jesus)’
    Q12: In whose name were believers baptized?
    ‘they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus’. (Acts 8:16; 2:38)
    Q13: In whose name were believers designated?
    ‘the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch’. (Acts 11:26)
    Q14: In whose name did the apostles speak?
    ‘Commanded them not to speak at all nor teach in the name of Jesus’ Acts 4:17,18
    Q15: In whose name did early Christians suffer? Acts 15:26 says:
    ‘Men that have hazarded their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ.’ ‘rejoicing that they were counted worthy to suffer shame for his name’Acts 5:41;9:16
    Q16: Whose name was Paul to carry?
    ‘Lord said: He is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, kings, and the children of Israel.’ (Acts 9:15)
    Q17: In whose name did Paul deliver a man to Satan?
    ‘In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ...to deliver such an one to Satan.’ I Cor 5:4,5
    Q18: In whose name did the apostles teach? Acts 5:28; 8:12 says:
    ‘Did we not straitly command you that ye should not teach in this name?’
    10) Why does WT break their own rule (where the OT speaks of Jehovah), that they do not insert Jehovah in the NT, when the quote clearly refers to Christ?
    Peter quotes from Joel 2:32 (spoken of Jehovah) and applies it to Jesus in Acts 2:21 and 38.
    Calling on the name of Jehovah for salvation equals repenting and being baptised in the name of Jesus Christ because of the forgiveness of sins.
    Conclusion: Jesus shares the nature of His Father and His Name. The absence of YHWH in any NT manuscript demolishes the WT case of introducing the word ‘Jehovah’ into the NT.
    Question: If God was so concerned about preserving His covenant name, why did the apostles not preserve it in their writings?
    Question: To imply that the name ‘Jehovah’ is the main name of God that we are to use, contradicts the continued NT use of the name ‘Jesus’ on 900 occasions, while the tetragram YHWH is used nowhere in the NT.
    QUESTION: Why does the WT not translate ‘Jehovah’ into Hebrews 1:10, I Peter 3:15 andPhilippians 2:11, when the OT passages from which these are quoted refer to YHWH?

    We are to make the name of the Father known as Jesus emphasized (Matthew 6:9; John 17:26). How do we do it? By recognizing that Jesus Christ was chosen by the Father to embody all the glory and important reputation of that Name.
     
  23. Downvote
    Jesus.defender got a reaction from Queen Esther in JEHOVAH’S NAME or JESUS CHRIST’S NAME.   
    JEHOVAH’S NAME or JESUS CHRIST’S NAME.

    The Watchtower teaches that God’s true Name is Jehovah. They teach that:
    ‘Sometime during the second or third Century CE, the scribes removed the tetragrammaton (JHWH) from both the Septuagint and the Christian Greek Scriptures and replaced it with κυριος (Lord) or θεος (God)’. Reference Edition of NWT, 1984, p 1564.
    The Watchtower’s Kingdom Interlinear Translation (KIT) proves that Jesus is Jehovah God.
    On page 10,11 of the 1985 KIT, under the heading ‘Restoring the Divine Name, Jehovah’ we read: ‘the evidence (what evidence?) is that the original text of the Christian Greek Scriptures has been tampered with (no proof) . . . Sometime during the second or third centuries CE, the Tetragrammaton (YHWH) was eliminated from the Greek texts by copyists (no proof).
    Instead of YHWH they substituted the words Kurios (‘Lord’) and Theos (‘God’).’
    Note: This is a lie. There is no historical or manuscript evidence or evidence of protest to support this claim. Somebody would have protested such a change.No one did. It never happened.
    The New World Translation (NWT) is the JW perversion of the Bible made to support their false doctrines. It inserts the name ‘Jehovah’ in the New Testament in the place of God (θεος=theos) or Lord (κυριος =kurios) on 237 occasions, where they believe it refers to God the
    Father. They often refer to Hebrew translations of the NT to see where this has been done.
    These are footnoted as J1 to J27. Their dishonesty and deceit is shown by their failure to translate these words as ‘Jehovah’ when it refers to Christ. (eg: Philippians 2:11; Hebrews 1:10).
    JWs say that the proper use of God’s ‘correct’ name (Jehovah) is absolutely essential to one’s salvation. They quote from their NWT: 
    ‘Everyone who calls on the name of Jehovah will be saved.’ Romans 10:13 (NWT).
    ‘People will have to know that I am Jehovah.’ Ezekiel 39:6 (NWT).
    JWs believe that because they are the only group who refer to God by His ‘true’ name, Jehovah, they are the only true followers of God.
    Their claim is false for these reasons:
    1) Jehovah is not a Biblical term. It is a man-made term. The Old Testament has YHWH because the original Hebrew only had consonants. Jews feared taking God’s name in vain, so when they publicly read YHWH, they would pronounce it ‘Adonai’ (Lord).
    Later they inserted the vowels from Adonai (a-o-a) into the consonants YHWH to give YAHOWAH, which became Jehovah. Hence, the word Jehovah comes from a consonantvowel
    combination from YHWH and Adonai.
    2) No-one knows for sure the original correct pronunciation of YHWH. Hence we cannot insist on ‘Jehovah’ as being correct.
    3) Jesus never addressed the Father as Jehovah in the New Testament. If JWs are correct that God must be always called Jehovah, then Jesus was sinning by not calling God ‘Jehovah’. When the NWT puts Jehovah in Jesus’ mouth in the NT, it contradicts all the NT manuscripts which don’t have it.
    QUESTION: Since Jesus never in the NT addressed the Father as Jehovah, why should we?
    4) Jesus and the Apostle Paul tell us to address God as ‘Father’:
    a) Jesus taught us to pray to God as ‘Our Father’, not ‘Our Jehovah’: ‘After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father.....’ (Matthew 6:9).
    b) Jesus addressed God as Father in His own prayers:
    ‘I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth’. (Matthew 11:25).
    ‘O my Father, if it be possible.......’ (Matthew 26:39,42).
    ‘He said, Abba, Father.......’ (Mark 14:36).
    ‘ I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven.......’ (Luke 10:21).
    ‘Saying, Father, if thou be willing.......’ (Luke 22:42).
    ‘Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them;.......’ (Luke 23:34).
    ‘Father, the hour is come......’ (John 17:1).
    c) Paul said, ‘we cry, Abba, Father.’ (Romans 8:15).
    d) The Holy Spirit through Paul said, ‘God hath sent forth the Spirit of His Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father’. (Galatians 4:6).
    Here the Holy Spirit of God tells us to call God ‘Abba, Father’, not ‘Jehovah’
    QUESTION: If Jesus, the Holy Spirit and Paul all address God as Father nine times (and never as Jehovah) then shouldn’t we call God ‘Father’?
    5) No Ancient NT manuscripts contain the tetragram (YHWH) to translate as Jehovah.
    The Church writers before 325 AD only mention Jehovah once in passing. JWs tell us that most Bible versions deceive people because they omit Jehovah as God’s Name, so
    the JWs dishonestly add the word ‘Jehovah’ to the NT text, even though it is not in any NT Greek manuscript, ancient version, papyri or lectionary.
    The WT’s claim that ‘Jehovah’ as God’s name was removed from the NT by superstitious scribes, is a total lie with no supporting historical or manuscript evidence.
    6) Whose Name did the early Christians identify themselves with? Was it Jehovah or was it Jesus Christ? Always Jesus Christ, never Jehovah.
    Who knows more, the Apostles or modern JWs? Consider these examples:
    a) The Apostles never used the name ‘Jehovah’.
    b) The Apostles and first century Christians were never called ‘Jehovah’s Witnesses’. ‘The disciples were called Christians first in Antioch.’ (Acts 11:26).
    c) There is no proof that Jesus or his disciples ever pronounced the tetragram YHWH. 
    JWs claim that when Jesus read from Isaiah 61:1 ‘The Spirit of the Lord is upon me....’ as quoted in Luke 4:18,19, that Jesus pronounced the word ‘YHWH’.
    This is most unlikely. JWs assume that the religious leaders endorsing Christ’s ‘gracious words’ in verse 22 was because He uttered the name YHWH?
    Historical records in the Mishnah, from Josephus, and from other sources show the Jews were loathe to allow the name YHWH to be used. The Jews would not have tolerated it being used by anybody but the High Priest.Jesus would have read ‘Adonai’
    7) 119 Bible passages referring to Jehovah, are quoted and applied to Christ in the New Testament (Proof Available)
    QUESTION: In view of 119 Bible verses applying ‘Jehovah’ to Christ in the NT, what does this tell you about who Christ is?
    😎 The New Testament tells us to name the name of Jesus Christ, not the name of Jehovah. Consider these examples:
    1. ‘Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.’(II Timothy 2:19)
    2. ‘I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ . . .’ (I Cor 1:10)
    3. ‘Ye are washed,....sanctified,... justified in the name of the Lord Jesus ’ (I Cor 6:11)
    4. ‘Whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus.’ (Col 3:17)
    5. ‘That the name of our Lord Jesus Christ may be glorified in you....’ (II Thess 1:12)
    6. ‘Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves.....’ (II Thess. 3:6)
    7. ‘all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours.’ (I Corinthians 1:2)
    8. ‘Thou holdest fast my name....’ Jesus said to the Pergamos church. (Revelation 2:13).
    JWs have not held fast Christ’s name, nor have they called upon Christ’s name, nor do they name the name of Christ, nor is Jesus Christ precious to them, because they do not have saving belief in Him. ‘Unto you . . . which believe He is precious’.(I Peter 2:7).
    QUESTION: Where does the NT tell us to name the name of Jehovah?
    9) The New Testament always lifts up Jesus Christ’s name, not Jehovah’s name. Why?
    Because Jesus Christ is Jehovah God on earth. Christ is 100% God and 100% man.
    Q1: In whose name should we meet together?
    ‘Where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.’ (Matthew 18:20)
    Q2: Demons were cast out by the authority of whose name?
    ‘Paul.....said to the spirit, I command thee in the name of Jesus Christ to come out of her.’ (Acts 16:18)
    Q3: In whose name should we preach repentance and forgiveness of sins? ‘And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations. And ye are witnesses of these things.’ (Luke 24:47,48)
    Q4: In whose name are we to believe and receive forgiveness of sins? ‘....through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.’ (Acts 10:43, John 1:12)
    Q5: By whose name, and no other, do we obtain salvation? Acts 4:10,12 says: ‘by the name of Jesus Christ ... Neither is there salvation in any other, for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.’
    Q6: In whose name should we pray? John 16:23,24; 14:13,14; 15:16 says: ‘Whatsoever ye shall ask the Father in my name, he will give it you.’
    Q7: In whose name is the Holy Spirit sent?
    ‘But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name......’ (John 14:26)
    Q8: In whose name and authority did the disciples heal the sick?
    ‘His name through faith in his name hath made this man strong’ (Acts 3:16; 4:30)
    Q9: Whose name did Paul say that we are to call upon?
    ‘ all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord.’ (I Cor 1:2)
    Q10: Whose name is above every name?
    ‘God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name .... that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord.’(Phil 2:9-11)
    Paul’s quote about Christ is from Isaiah 45:22-24 where every knee will bow to Jehovah. What is true about Jehovah, is also true of Christ, the Lord of all mankind
    Q11: According to Acts 1:8, of whom are we to be witnesses?
    ‘Ye shall be witnesses unto me (Jesus)’
    Q12: In whose name were believers baptized?
    ‘they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus’. (Acts 8:16; 2:38)
    Q13: In whose name were believers designated?
    ‘the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch’. (Acts 11:26)
    Q14: In whose name did the apostles speak?
    ‘Commanded them not to speak at all nor teach in the name of Jesus’ Acts 4:17,18
    Q15: In whose name did early Christians suffer? Acts 15:26 says:
    ‘Men that have hazarded their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ.’ ‘rejoicing that they were counted worthy to suffer shame for his name’Acts 5:41;9:16
    Q16: Whose name was Paul to carry?
    ‘Lord said: He is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, kings, and the children of Israel.’ (Acts 9:15)
    Q17: In whose name did Paul deliver a man to Satan?
    ‘In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ...to deliver such an one to Satan.’ I Cor 5:4,5
    Q18: In whose name did the apostles teach? Acts 5:28; 8:12 says:
    ‘Did we not straitly command you that ye should not teach in this name?’
    10) Why does WT break their own rule (where the OT speaks of Jehovah), that they do not insert Jehovah in the NT, when the quote clearly refers to Christ?
    Peter quotes from Joel 2:32 (spoken of Jehovah) and applies it to Jesus in Acts 2:21 and 38.
    Calling on the name of Jehovah for salvation equals repenting and being baptised in the name of Jesus Christ because of the forgiveness of sins.
    Conclusion: Jesus shares the nature of His Father and His Name. The absence of YHWH in any NT manuscript demolishes the WT case of introducing the word ‘Jehovah’ into the NT.
    Question: If God was so concerned about preserving His covenant name, why did the apostles not preserve it in their writings?
    Question: To imply that the name ‘Jehovah’ is the main name of God that we are to use, contradicts the continued NT use of the name ‘Jesus’ on 900 occasions, while the tetragram YHWH is used nowhere in the NT.
    QUESTION: Why does the WT not translate ‘Jehovah’ into Hebrews 1:10, I Peter 3:15 andPhilippians 2:11, when the OT passages from which these are quoted refer to YHWH?

    We are to make the name of the Father known as Jesus emphasized (Matthew 6:9; John 17:26). How do we do it? By recognizing that Jesus Christ was chosen by the Father to embody all the glory and important reputation of that Name.
     
  24. Thanks
    Jesus.defender got a reaction from Srecko Sostar in BOTH the FATHER and the SON HAVE the SAME 119 ATTRIBUTES, CLAIMS and MAJESTY.   
    BOTH the FATHER and the SON HAVE the SAME 119 ATTRIBUTES, CLAIMS and MAJESTY.
    ‘I am Jehovah - that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another.’ (Isaiah 62:8).
    The glory of these 119 attributes are jointly owned by the Father and the Son, and nobody else.
    Jesus Christ is Jehovah God, equally with the Father, because both the Father and Son alone have the following attributes:
    1. both are to be honoured equally (John 5:23)
    2. both are the I AM (Exodus 3:14-15; John 8:24,58)
    3. both are the Mighty God (Isaiah 10:20,21; Jer 32:18; Psalm 50:1; Isaiah 9:6; Gen 49:24)
    4. both own the same throne (Psalm 45:6,7; Hebrews 1:8; Revelation 22:1,3)
    5. both accept worship (Exodus 34:14; I Chronicles 16:29; Hebrews 1:6; Matthew 28:9)
    6. both laid the foundation of the earth (Psalm 102:24-27; Isaiah 48:13; Hebrews 1:10-12)
    7. One God has created mankind (Mal. 2:10; Prov. 16:4; Isaiah 44:24; Col 1:16; John 1:3)
    8. both are the Shepherd (Psalm 80;1; Gen 49:24; John 10:11; Hebrews 13:20; I Peter 5:4)
    9. both are from Everlasting (Psalm 90:2; Habakkuk 1:12; Micah 5:2; Hebrews 7:3).
    10. both are the First and Last (Isaiah 44:6; Revelation 1:17,18; Rev. 2:8; See p.54).)
    11. both are the Alpha and Omega (Revelation 1:8; 21:5-7; 22:13-16; See p.54)
    12. both come and Reward (Isaiah 40:10; 62:11; Revelation 22:12)
    13. both are unchangeable (Malachi 3:6: Hebrews 13:8)
    14. both have unsearchable riches (Romans 11:33; Ephesians 3:8)
    15. both are the Holy One (Isaiah 43:15; Acts 3:14)
    16. both are omnipresent and fill all things (Psalm 139:7; Jer. 23:24; Eph. 4:10; John 3:13)
    17. both are omniscient (Psalm 147:5; Prov. 14:3; John 21:17; John 16:30; Colossians 2:3)
    18. both are omnipotent (Genesis 17:1; Matthew 28:18; Hebrews 1:3)
    19. both are eternal (Deuteronomy 33:27; Hebrews 7:3; Micah 5:2)
    20. both own the everlasting Kingdom (Psalm 145:13; Daniel 7:14; II Peter 1:11)
    21. both are Lord of all (Psalm 103:19; Matthew 11:25; Acts 10:36)
    22. both are the only Saviour (Isaiah 43:11; Titus 1:3,4; Philippians 3:20; II Peter 1:1; 3:18;
    Luke 2:11; Hebrews 5:9; Acts 4:12)
    23. both are the Truth (Deuteronomy 32:4; John 14:6)
    24. both are sinless (Deuteronomy 32:4; Hebrews 4:15)
    25. both are in the beginning (Genesis 1:1; John 1:1)
    26. both God and the Son are the Judge (Psalm 82:8; John 5:22), but the Father is not the
    Judge (John 5:22 ‘The Father judgeth no man’).
    27. both are our Hope (Psalm 39:7; I Timothy 1:1)
    28. both shelter believers under their wings (Psalm 91:2,4; Matthew 23:37)
    29. both are our Redeemer (Psalm 130:7,8; Isaiah 44:6; Galatians 3:13; Titus 2:14)
    30. the glory of both was seen by Isaiah (Isaiah 6:3,5; John 12:41)
    31. both are the Rock (Deuteronomy 32:3,4,18; Psalm 18:31; I Corinthians 10:4)
    32. both are to be looked to for salvation (Isaiah 45:22; John 1:29; John 6:40)
    33. to both shall every knee bow and every tongue confess (Isaiah 45:23; Philippians 2:10;
    Romans 14:10,11)
    34. the enemies of both shall perish (Psalm 92:9; Philippians 3:18,19)
    35. both send the Holy Spirit (Joel 2:28; John 16:7)
    36. to both shall all men come (Psalm 65:2; Isaiah 45:24; John 12:32)
    37. both forgive sins (Exodus 34:7; Mark 2:5,7; Colossians 3:13)
    38. both blot out sin (Isaiah 43:25; Hebrews 1:3; I John 1:7)
    39. both still storms (Psalm 107:29; Matthew 8:26)
    40. both own the Holy Spirit (Matthew 10:20; Romans 8:9)
    41. both seek the lost (Ezekiel 34:16; Luke 19:10)
    42. to both are applied 10 aspects of the Lord’s Prayer (Matthew 6:9-13; see page 954)
    43. both receive believers to glory (Psalm 73:24; John 14:3)
    44. both are our One Master (Malachi 1:6; Matthew 23:8,10)
    45. both are served by believers (Deuteronomy 10:20; Colossians 3:24)
    46. both lead believers to living waters (Psalm 23:2; Revelation 7:17)
    47. both correct believers (Proverbs 3:12; Revelation 3:19)
    48. both prepare a place for believers in heaven (Hebrews 11:16; John 14:2)
    49. both are all in all (I Corinthians 15:28; Colossians 3:11)
    50. both are known by believers (Galatians 4:9; Philippians 3:10; John 17:3)
    51. both are cleaved to by believers (Deuteronomy 10:20; John 15:4)
    52. both are the light of the world (Psalm 27:1; John 8:12)
    53. both are the Light of the New Jerusalem (Isaiah 60:19,20; Revelation 21:23)
    54. both give eternal life (Psalm 36:9; John 10:28)
    55. both are called ‘My Lord and my God’ (Psalm 35:22,23; John 20:28)
    56. both are our Righteousness (Isaiah 45:24; I Corinthians 1:30; Jeremiah 23:5,6)
    57. both have the same voice as of many waters (Ezekiel 43:2; Revelation 1:15)
    58. both are witnessed to by believers (Isaiah 43:10; Acts 1:8)
    59. both own the peace given to believers (Philippians 4:7; John 14:27)
    60. both own the gospel (I Thessalonians 2:2; Romans 1:16)
    61. both give saving grace (Titus 2:11; Acts 15:11)
    62. both are our peace (Judges 6:24; Ephesians 2:14)
    63. both are pierced and looked upon (Zechariah 12:10; John 19:37)
    64. both sanctify believers (Exodus 31:13; I Corinthians 6:11)
    65. both give victory to believers (Psalm 98:1; I Corinthians 15:57)
    66. both heal people (Exodus 15:26; Matthew 9:35)
    67. both equally own the churches (I Corinthians 15:9; Romans 16:16; I and II Thess. 1:1)
    68. both own the Kingdom (Matthew 6:33; Rev. 11:15).
    69. both are glorified by the Gentiles (Isaiah 24:15; II Thessalonians 1:12; Matthew 12:21)
    70. both own the Day of the Lord (Isaiah 13:6; Philippians 1:6; II Thessalonians 2:2)
    71. both give grace to believers (Romans 5:15; Colossians 1:6; II Cor. 8:9; Galatians 6:18)
    72. both own the same glory (Romans 5:2; II Corinthians 8:23)
    73. both own the same love (John 5:42; II Corinthians 5:14)
    74. both own the same Word (Psalm 119:11; I Thessalonians 2:13; Colossians 3:16)
    75. both own salvation (Luke 3:6; Jonah 2:9; Acts 4:12; II Timothy 2:10)
    76. both were served equally by Paul (Titus 1:1; Romans 1:1);and by James (James 1:1)
    77. both own the commandments (I John 5:3; John 14:15)
    78. both had their way prepared by John the Baptist (Isaiah 40;3; Mark 1:1-3)
    79. both search all hearts (Psalm 139:1; Revelation 2:23)
    80. both own the same flock (I Peter 5:2; John 21:15,16)
    81. both ascend on high, lead captivity captive, and give gifts to men (Psalm 68:17,18;
    Ephesians 4:7-10)
    82. both are like a Bridegroom (Isaiah 62:5; Mark 2:19,20)
    83. both receive the glory of God alone forever and ever (Isaiah 42:8; Galatians 1:4,5;
    I Peter 5:10,11; II Peter 3:18; Hebrews 13:21; I Peter 4:11; Revelation 1:5,6)
    84. both are the source of fruit (Hosea 14:8; John 15:5)
    85. both are our source of strength (Psalm 119:28; Philippians 4:13)
    86. both give rest for our souls (Jeremiah 6:16; Matthew 11:29)
    87. both shall appear at Christ’s return (Psalm 102:16; Zechariah 14:3,4,5; Titus 2:13)
    88. both will come to earth (Isaiah 40:10; Revelation 22:7,12,20)
    89. both are to be trusted in (Jeremiah 17:7; Ephesians 1:12; John 14:1)
    90. both are our King (Isaiah 6:5; 33:22; Revelation 17:14; 19:16; I Timothy 6:14,15)
    91. both will wound their enemies’ heads (Psalm 68:21; 110:6)
    92. both take vengeance (Romans 12:19; II Thessalonians 1:7,8)
    93. both will be opposed by the Antichrist’s armies (Isaiah 34:22; Revelation 19:19)
    94. both will fight against the Antichrist’s armies at Armageddon (Zechariah 14:3;
    Revelation 19:11,13,21)
    95. both will destroy death (Isaiah 25:8; II Timothy 1:10).
    96. both receive the faith of believers (I Thessalonians 1:8; Galatians 3:26)
    97. both are our life (Deuteronomy 30:20; Colossians 3:4)
    98. both are to be prayed to (Matthew 6:9; Acts 7:59)
    99. both raised up Christ (Acts 2:32; John 2:19,21)
    100.both own all of the other (John 16:15)
    101.both enter the east gate of Jerusalem (Ezekiel 44:1,2; Luke 19:37-45)
    102.the man on the throne in Ezekiel 1:26 is identified as the God of Israel in Ezek 10:20
    103.both names are placed on the same level in the baptism formula (Matthew 28:19)
    104.both fellowship equally with believers (I John 1:3).
    105.both comfort believers (Isaiah 66:13; Philippians 2:1).
    106.both receive doxologies of worship in heaven (Revelation 5:8-10; 5:11,12; 5:13,14).
    107.both jointly send grace and peace to the churches (Romans 1:7).
    108.both the love of the Father and love of the Son are an equal privilege given to us.(John
    14:21)
    109.both jointly declare themselves to be Jehovah, “I am the first,& I am the last”(Isaiah 44:6)
    110.both come to his temple, ‘the Lord shall suddenly come to his temple.’(Malachi 3:1; Mat
    21:13)
    111.both are the King of Israel (Isaiah 44:6; John 1:49).
    112. both can be blasphemed (God-Rom.2:24; HS-Luke 12:10; Christ-Luke 22:65; Acts 13:45; 18:5,6;
    26:9,11)
    113.both are always with all believers (Matthew 28:20; 2 Corinthians 13:14).
    114.both are the one lawgiver (God-Rom.7:22; Christ-Gal.6:2; HS-Rom.8:2; James 4:12).
    115.both have the same face (Revelation 22:3,4)
    116.both have the same Name (Revelation 22:3,4)
    117.both own the same servants (Revelation 22:3)
    118.both are the Temple of the New Jerusalem (Revelation 21:22)
    119.Heavens are the work of thy hands (Psalm 102:24-27; Hebrews 1:10-12)

    Since both Jesus and the Father have these same attributes, both are Jehovah God.

    There are not 2 Gods, but One God in 3 persons. One who has these attributes must be God.

    The Lord’s Prayer is devoted to worshiping the Father. Jesus conceals His personal glory in this prayer as seen by other Scriptures which are just as true of Christ as the Lord’s Prayer is of the Father. 
  25. Upvote
    Jesus.defender got a reaction from Srecko Sostar in Firstborn or First created?   
    Firstborn or First created?
    Colossians 1:15 - ‘the firstborn (Greek: prototokos 4416) of every creature’.
    JWs use this verse to teach that Jesus was created at a point in time as an angel.
    They ignore the evidence and insist that the word ‘firstborn’ here means ‘first created’, ‘the eldest in Jehovah’s family of sons’.
    The Bible teaching:
    1) ‘Firstborn’ (Greek: prototokos) does NOT mean ‘first-created’ (Greek: protoktisis). First-created (Protoktisis) is never used of Christ in New Testament.
    Question:Where is it used of Jesus in New Testament?
    Question: Why didn’t Paul use the term ‘first-created’ (protoktisis) in Colossians 1:15 if he meant that Christ was the first one created by Jehovah?
    2) Ask: What does ‘firstborn’ (Greek: prototokos 4416) mean?
    Answer: ‘Pre-eminent, Ruler, Sovereign, First in rank’.
    It is used in other passages which refer to Christ:
    i. Romans 8:29 ‘that he might be the firstborn among many brethren’. ‘Prototokos’ presents Christ as the pre-eminent member of the group (S. Zodhiates NT, p 1249).
    ii. Colossians 1:15. ‘The firstborn of every creature’ Christ is the one pre-eminent and supreme ruler over all creation (S Zodhiates NT, p 1250). v.16 ‘By him were all things created’ means that Christ Himself is not part of Creation (John 1:3).
    iii. Colossians 1:18 ‘He (Christ) is the head of the body, the church: who is the
    beginning (arche), the firstborn (prototokos=Ruler) from the dead; that in all
    things he might have the pre-eminence (proteuon)’.
    ‘Arche’ means ‘first cause’ (Revelation 3:14, Colossians 1:18) and is parallel to
    ‘prototokos’ in Colossians 1:15,18, both asserting Christ’s pre-eminence.
    Note: ‘Proteuon’ (pre-eminence) present tense is used only in Colossians 1:18 and indicates not an acquired right to be ruler and pre-eminent, but an inherent right by virtue of His nature. Christ, being the Creator, deserves to have pre-eminence.
    iv. Hebrews 1:6 ‘And again, when he bringeth the firstbegotten(prototokos=Ruler) into the world, he saith ‘And let all the angels of God worship Him’.
    Alternately, translate this as ‘And when He again brings the firstborn into the
    world’, refers to Christ’s second coming when Christ as King will be worshipped
    by the angels. Christ is exalted even above all the angels.
    v. Revelation 1:5 ‘And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the
    firstbegotten (prototokos=Ruler) of the dead, and the prince (arche = chief) of the kings of the earth.’ Here ‘prototokos’ means that Christ is first of those to be
    resurrected, and prince (arche) means ruler of earth’s kings at His second coming.
    Note: JWs compare Christ as the firstborn of all creation with the firstborn son of Pharaoh. This is nonsensical, because it is true that Pharaoh parented his son, but it is not true that ‘all creation’ parented Jesus.
    3) We must understand what the original speaker or writer intended by the words which he used. The ancient Hebrews used the term ‘firstborn son’ when referring to the preeminent son, regardless of whether or not he was the first son born to the parents. The son with the title ‘firstborn’ had the right of primogeniture which meant that:
    i) He acquired a special blessing (Genesis 27);
    ii) He became heir of a double share of the father’s wealth (Deuteronomy 21:17);
    iii) He replaced his father as the family head. He had authority over his brothers;
    iv) He represented the father in civil and religious matters;
    v) He had some holiness because through him flowed the common blood of the tribe (Genesis 49:3; Deuteronomy 21:17).
    Key: The term ‘firstborn’ does not refer to the first one born, but to the pre-eminent one in the family. Consider these examples where the son with the title ‘firstborn’ was not born first:
    (1) David was the last born son of Jesse, yet Psalm 89:27 says of him: ‘Also I will make him my firstborn, higher than the kings of the earth’. (v.20 onwards refers to David).
    (2) Ephraim was the second born son of Joseph: ‘The name of the second called he Ephraim.’ (Genesis 41:50-52). Yet ‘Ephraim is my firstborn’ (Jeremiah 31:9). This was because of his pre-eminent position. Manasseh was born first to Joseph, but Ephraim became the firstborn because of his pre-eminence.
    (3) Jacob (Israel) was the second son born to Isaac, after Esau, yet God says of Israel, ‘Israel is my son, even my firstborn.’ (Exodus 4:22). Esau says of himself, ‘I am Esau thy firstborn’. (Genesis 27:19). Esau means that he was born first and should have the birthright. God means that Israel, though born second, took the pre-eminent position. Hence, in this sense Christ is firstborn because of His pre-eminence, not because He was created first as JWs think.
    (4) Solomon was born to David later, and the line of the kings came through Solomon,yet Amnon was born first (I Chronicles 3:2).
    (5) Isaac was born 13 years after Ishmael, yet Isaac took the pre-eminent position in the family.(Genesis 17:19).
    (6) Judah was the fourth son born to Jacob (Genesis 29:35), yet Judah received the dominion and line of Christ, even though Reuben being born first forfeited his right of primogeniture due to fornication (Genesis 49:3,4)
    4) Firstborn can be rendered metaphorically, not meaning born first. Examples include:
    i) Job 18:13 ‘the firstborn of death shall devour his strength’. As the firstborn son held the chief place, so Job refers to the chiefest (most deadly) disease that death possessed;
    ii) Isaiah 14:30 ‘The firstborn of the poor shall feed’, means the poorest of the poor.
    Conclusion: Firstborn does not mean born first or created first. Rather, it is a title of first rank, or pre-eminent position. Paul calls Christ the firstborn (prototokos = Ruler).
    Ask: What does Psalm 89:27 mean by calling David firstborn, when he was the last born son?
    Ask: Why didn’t Paul use ‘first created’ (protoktisis) of Christ in Colossians 1:15 if he intended to teach that Christ was the first one created by Jehovah?
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

Terms of Service Confirmation Terms of Use Privacy Policy Guidelines We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.