HollyW

I would say the policies of the WTS are already doing that. The victim is not believed unless the accused confesses.

Maybe the level of authority is something to consider in this since it's the policies of the WTS that are causing them trouble with how they deal with child abuse, and those policies are made by those with the highest authority in the WT hierarchy. No doubt those with higher authority want to protect the organization at all costs and they are the ones responsible for the poor procedures they insist on for child abuse cases. For instance, elders are told to report these crimes, not to the police but to the WTS legal department. Nor are the elders told to tell the victim and/or the victim's parents to report it to the police. In addition to the ghastly two witness rule the WTS has invented for this, the WT procedure flat out takes the word of the accused over that of the victim. To stop this they need to report each and every accusation to the civil authorities. Child abuse, child molestation, child rape are all crimes.

I agree that JWs are no different than any other religion, but the thing is, JWs condemn all religions, including Christianity other than themselves, as being led by Satan, so when you say JWs are no different than any other religion, it places them in a group they try to maintain they are no part of. To excuse the WTS by pointing to the faults in other churches does not make the WTS right, and there is no basis for their two witness rule for child abuse nor for allowing the predator to question the victim in a private meeting nor for not reporting this crime to the proper authorities. I mean, they aren't trying to be like the Catholics, are they?

Hmmmm......."No different than any other religion " doesn't sound like a very good excuse for a religion that claims to be God's sole channel of communication to mankind.

The man in the picture with the Aid book isn't Raymond Franz, it's his uncle Fred Franz

Hi Witness, Is the WTS saying its has the right of religious freedom to withhold information about child abuse from the Charity Commission?

The sound was okay for me. Could it be the settings on your computer?

I ran into that problem, too, Kurt. For some reason the word "apo-state" gets changed to "brother" here. Jesus recognized that the religious leaders of his religion, Judaism, had gone astray with their teachings and had become hypocrites. Even though they ,may have obeyed the letter of the law, they did not obey the spirit of the law. It was a tutor that would have led them to Christ because it is his righteousness we need, we can't be saved on our own merit.

Exactly, Witness. Directing people to the organization is a common occurrence in the WTS publications, never directing them to Jesus.

This quote from the Inter-Varsity Press (IVP) commentary above indicates how sadly lacking JWs are by following what the WTS says about being born-again.....something they say is reserved for only 144,000 people beginning in the first century and ending some time in the 1930's. https://www.biblegateway.com/resources/commentaries/IVP-NT/Matt/Christians-Must-Obey-Gods-Law

Kurt, Ann is correct and the WTS agrees, the false religious leaders Jesus was criticizing were those of his own religion, Judaism. http://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2004283?q=false+religious+leaders&p=par [w04 4/15 p.16] Jehovah and the designated King of His Kingdom, Christ Jesus, require that their subjects be known for their kindness. (Micah 6:8) Jesus Christ gave us a glimpse of how the administration entrusted to him by his Father would be marked by kindness. (Hebrews 1:3) This can be noted in Jesus’ words that exposed the false religious leaders, who burdened the people with heavy loads. He said: “Come to me, all you who are toiling and loaded down, and I will refresh you. Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am mild-tempered and lowly in heart, and you will find refreshment for your souls. For my yoke is kindly and my load is light.” (Matthew 11:28-30) All too many earthly rulers, religious or otherwise, exhaust the people with wearisome burdens of endless rules and thankless tasks. Yet, what Jesus requires of his followers fits their needs and abilities. A refreshing, kindly yoke indeed! Are we not moved to be like him in showing kindness to others?

Thanks for those quote, Ann. It's also certainly implied in the November 15, 2013 wt: [w13 11/15 p.20 Study Edition] At that time, the lifesaving direction that we receive from Jehovah’s organization may not appear practical from a human standpoint. All of us must be ready to obey any instructions we may receive, whether these appear sound from a strategic or human standpoint or not. In the simplified edition, the WTS directions are to be followed even if they sound strange or unusual, and even if JWs don't agree with them: [w13 11/15 p.20 Simplified Edition] At that time, the direction that you receive from Jehovah’s organization may seem strange or unusual. But all of us must be ready to obey any instructions we may receive, whether we agree with them or not, because obeying these instructions will save our lives.

One of the articles about this said that the elders are the ones who came forward with information that led to Lozano's arrest. I commend them for reporting this to the police even though Lozano pleaded not guilty at first but later pleaded no contest.

Thank you Witness! I appreciate that.

Thanks for your reply, QE. I see you have your own beliefs apart from what the WTS says. Gnite from California.

I'm seeing a scales.....on one side is Adam, on the other is Jesus, and the caption is "Jesus was the equal of the perfect man Adam." Have you ever seen it? It's in the Live Forever book, p.63. On the preceding page in par.16 there is this explanation of the legal principle life given for life that is portrayed in the picture: "Because he was a perfect man, even as Adam had been, Jesus is called "the last Adam." (1 Corinthians 15:45) No human other than Jesus could have provided the ransom. This is because Jesus is the only man who ever lived that was equal to Adam as a perfect human son of God.-Psalm 49:7; Luke 1:32; 3:38."

Hmmmm......I thought your belief is that Adam and Jesus were equally perfect. No?

Hi you two! Maybe you could weigh in on why you believe the WTS is the organization Jehovah is using. How 'bout it? In it's publications it says why you should believe it is, but so far no one has mentioned it. They have specific criteria for claiming to be God's organization. Were either of you aware of this?

Ann, you the man! When was 606 dropped in favor of 607?

Russell hadn't been saying war would start in 1914 though. He was saying Armageddon would END in 1914. So he still should have suspected the inaccuracy of his predictions. I hadn't heard that about Macmillan, however it's not been unusual for the average JWs to be blamed for the mistakes their leaders have made. Kind of like 'you were foolish to believe us'.

Thanks, again. No, I wasn't aware of the October 4th date. Whether it was the 1st or the 2nd or the 4th that he made the announcement, Russell's announcement itself was obviously wrong ---- he gave the evidence that proves the Gentile times did not end in 1914, nor any year since then. None of the events have happened that he said would happen if he were correct. As I posted above, back in 1892 Russell presented "Bible evidence proving that the full end of the times of the Gentiles, i.e., the full end of their lease of dominion, will be reached in A.D. 1914; and that that date will see the disintegration of the rule of imperfect men. And be it observed, that if this is shown to be a fact firmly established by the Scriptures, it will prove:" It can't be ignored as being of no interest to current JWs since the governing body itself has asked them to picture themselves back in the dining room in October of 1914 when Russell made the declaration that the Gentile times had ended. You've done quite a bit of research in the WTS history, so this must be something you've found on your own.

Thanks for the additional information. Macmillan also seems to have mis-remembered what the WT had been calling attention to ever since 1879. It wasn't the beginning of the end, it was the end of the end. In reference to Armageddon, ZWT of Jan 15, 1892 p.24-25, has the following about “the battle of the great day of God Almighty.” The date of the close of that “battle” is definitely marked in Scripture as October, 1914. It is already in progress, its beginning dating from October, 1874. It’s end was predicted for October, 1914. [ZWT Aug. 1, 1892 p.238-245] “the final overthrow of present governments will be at the same time as the fall of ecclesiasticism, and will be followed by from five to seven years of socialism and anarchy, to end with 1914 by the establishment of Christ’s Millennial government.” That was why they all were expecting to be raptured in October of 1914 (hence the white-robe bridge incident?) because they had been saying the end of all the governments and all the churches (except the WTS) would take place by 1914 and the 1,000 year reign of Christ would begin (the millennium). Though the WTS still holds to the Gentile times ending in 1914, all the evidence, the seven points, Russell put forward to prove his date was scripturally accurate, show that it was not accurate at all.

Well, I agree that's the WTS viewpoint but I don't agree with it because their criteria isn't consistent.

Shiwiii, that's a good point.