TrueTomHarley

5 hours ago, JW Insider said:

This is completely wrong, Billy. Before I realized how you might have made the mistake, I thought you were attempting satire, @BTK59, but that would be quite a stretch from the @BillyTheKid-55  and previous B.T.K.s we've all come to know and love on this forum. 

Whoa.

I would never say we are dealing with typ/antitype here, but clearly we are dealing with a ‘this reminds me of that.’

And since we’re speaking of eating here, and I’m not following closely enough to make a contribution, but wish to make a contribution nonetheless, if only to placate the Librarian (that old hen), here is an observation of 300 lb G.K Chesterton interacting with rail-thin George Bernard Shaw:

GKC: “To look at you, anyone would think a famine had struck England.”

GBS: “To look at you, anyone would think you had caused it.”

1 hour ago, JW Insider said:

But will respond in a couple hours or naptime whichever comes first.

Whose? Can you type in your sleep?

2 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

But man, well, nobody hates you. Why such resistance and bitterness? lol

Okay, no more Mr. Un-nice guy for me. 

No more Acts 13:10.

“O man full of every sort of fraud and every sort of villainy, you son of the Devil, you enemy of everything righteous, will you not quit distorting the right ways of Jehovah?”  

No more. Done*

(*for a limited time only)

6 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Can you state what types (in what form) of humanitarian aid officially exist in your religion? And where can it be read in your literature, please?

Man, you are petty and self-blind, aren’t you?

The above is an excellent example of ‘Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and you will feed him for a lifetime.’ Who can’t see the superiority in that?

Why on earth can’t you emulate the Jehovah’s Witness’ relief effort among whoever you associate with? Then, you would be so occupied, you would have neither time nor cause to be envious of the deeds of others.

People without Bible principles tend to be slow to roll up their sleeves. They also not to get along, so cooperation is amongst them is difficult. All they have to do is adopt the Bible principles that Witnesses have, and they’d be okay. Your assignment is to discern what impels Jehovah’s Witnesses to do what almost nobody else does, make a full mea culpa, and then take your leave as gracefully as you can.

3 minutes ago, xero said:

It's "Chronology".

Oh, very well. Didn’t I tell you I didn’t care?

’I didn’t kill my wife’ said Richard Kimble. But scholarly Sam Gerard immediately countered that argument with, ‘I don’t care.’

Lots of threads on chronolgy here. Why should I weigh in? All it would do is rain on someone’s parade. If it is of an interest I don’t give two hoots about—well, there are plenty of things interesting to me that others don’t give two hoots about. ‘Let it be. Let it be. Whisper words of wisdom. Let it be.’

But, what about those words of wisdom, Tommy? What are they? How come you don’t care about what everyone else here does? How come whenever the topic comes up, you join Pudgy in picking off fleas off yourself?

Because it seems analogous to someone finding a document in the engine room of the Titanic to the effect that the ship is not going down in the next 20 minutes, but will take 10 minutes longer. Apart from finishing a final cup of coffee in your stateroom, which can be done so long as you keep tilting it to correspond to the increasing pitch, what difference does it make? 

None of this is to undermine those with serious academic interest in the topic. Go for it, you guys. But also recognize (as most already do) that 90% of those who have made a tiny sliver of Persion history their cause would have difficulty naming who was president the year of their birth. They just latch on to the issue because they think they can embarrass the Witness organization that has based certain expectations on historical events and it turns out theirs is not the majority academic view. Oh, yeah, they’re intense students of history on that account, but otherwise are hard pressed to distinqush Karl Marx from Groucho Marx.

It’s just like I wrote in ‘In the Last of the Last Days: Faith in the Age of Dysfunction:’ those ‘apostates’ who become too wrapped up in this issue end up becoming de-facto cheerleaders of this system of things, hoping it will go on and on forever because that would embarrass their former brothers. They may overestimate the ‘embarrassment.’ ‘New light’ always solves the problem, should one be identified. To be sure, adjusting would be awkward, but not a deal-breaker. 

I doubt the need for it will never arise. I think the brothers will play chicken with the present understanding, which for all I know is the correct one. How many times have I seen the news story that begins with ‘Everything you thought you knew about such-and-such is wrong.’ Majority opinions, even in matters of science, fall all the time. What a great way to end this system of things: with a colossal game of chicken between the two main protagonists!

The system will end before resolution is necessary, or else life may become so tenuous that nobody cares.

I also don’t care about it because, even if I win, most of my opponents will mutter, ‘Okay okay—but what about Adam and Eve? You believe that fairy tale?’

Every so often I find myself aligned with Pudgy, always a worrying development, who says, ‘If it doesn’t have practical consequence, who cares?’

3 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Let's say, the horror with plastic has long exceeded the possibilities to solve it. But have people stopped using plastic? How many materials do JWs and their organization use, not just plastic, which is already being shown to be harmful? Don't JWs and "God's Organization" use vehicles that pollute the environment?

What about all that fresh air and clean water you consume, resources that could be put to fine use?

Really, Srecko, you don’t think you’re grasping at straws here?

3 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

The human mind seeks solace in various, unusual and even strange places. Hope and faith are subjective scenes supported by ideas from various sources

If she wants to saw off the branch she has been sitting on and congratulate herself on her liberation from the tree, it is her choice. My bad for implying a deficit of sense.

3 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

We are obliged to solve our problems and challenges ourselves.

As with your commentary on Amber, it would appear that your beef is with faith and religious community itself. That being the case, one wonders that you spend so much time on the one faith that has solved racism and will not pick up arms on any account.

3 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Some JWs brothers and their lawyers are not honest when they present their testimony in court. 

Probably another ‘eye of the beholder’ scenario. Just like how the one who doesn’t agree with how an opponent frames matters is always ‘arrogant’ on that account. I admit, I do not follow trial testimony closely or at all, but I have suggested in the past that since everybody hates jury duty and nobody believes a court outcome anyway, that the answer is to try all cases on Facebook and settle guilt or innocence by likes. It’s not like I’m trying not to do my bit.

3 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Do you have a detector that measures someone's "love" of money?

I do have one of those things. I have measured the Bethel brothers on it. They check out okay.

23 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

I am glad that a large number of JW people are taking advantage of these opportunities, and I hope that they will not go to other extremes while using their "newfound freedom".

On the venues I have seen, a sense of optimism prevails among most, having ‘escaped’ from the ‘cult.’ Some of the younger one taunt GB brothers, reminiscent of adolescents mocking out their teachers. Some of the older ones greet new ‘escapees’ with, ‘Welcome to your future!’ They all but sing the song, ‘The Future’s So Bright I Gotta Wear Shades.’

It is an optimism that prevails in few other places. Elsewhere, people are anything but optimistic about the future and a fair number are not even sure there will be one. Even the songwriter pointed out that the ‘job waiting’ after graduation is in the nuclear industry and the reason he’s ’gotta wear shades’ is the threat of conflagration.

Then there is an Amber Scorah who wrote a book upon going ‘apostate’ which was hailed by the media. The reviews lauded her ‘courage’ for facing the death of her newborn just following her ‘escape’ from a ‘high-control’ religion. ‘The dodo!’ I found myself thinking. Here she leaves a place where the death of a newborn would have unleashed scores of genuine comforters with a resurrection hope that never fails among Witnesses to soften the blow, to enter a community where there is no such comfort, but only the harsh loss itself, and she still counts it a victory! egged on by people who have donned the shades, know the meaning of the song, accept its possible outcome,  and still count it a victory for facing the future unafraid, without the ‘crutch’ of religion. It’s as though the closer the Atomic Scientist Doomsday Clock gets to midnight (now, 90 seconds to go) the more they cheer, so drunk are they that humans should rule the earth through their own self-determination, and not God.

I recall Amber’s name because I made a mental note to read her book someday, along with Rolf’s. I’ll probably never get around to either of them because everyone has a tale of responding to woe. Everyone has a tale of reacting to things that don’t entirely square (as though everything in the greater world does). Everyone has a tale of miscarriage  like Job and/or being undermined by characters like Eli, Bill, and Zop. Mine is as good as theirs—they should read my books, not I theirs!—which have the added advantage of showing how you can throw out the bathwater without throwing out the baby. Or, just read and meditate on the Book of Job. That will do the trick, too.

At our Kingdom Hall, the torch has been passed to a younger generation of elders. One of them handled the ‘Instruction’ talk last night, ‘Remain Loyal Despite the Actions of Others.’ Have you ever been hurt by another brother or sister? he asked. ‘It could have been accidental. It could have been deliberate; we’re imperfect,’ he said. He then related how he had had such an experience in another congregation at the hand of fellow elders. He gave no details, other than how it hurt him deeply and he wrestled for a proper reaction.

‘What about the sister in the picture?’ he returned to the text material, commented on the accompanying photo. Here she is being yelled at. Right outside the Kingdom Hall. That’s not pleasant, is it? It probably was traumatic. What will she do? Who will she tell? (the photo inset shows her in prayer) Will she tell everyone in the congregation? [laughter, because the friends are contrasting that with the inset] Will she go to another congregation? Will she leave the truth? He then returned to his own experience. ‘Do you want to leave the congregation?’ The CO had asked him, and pointed to one or two where they needed help. The CO presented it that neither option, stay or go, was wrong, but, ‘If you stay, you will grow.’ He did stay and did grow. He related how, by staying, he got to see how Jehovah handled the issue in time.

It is always a matter of stay or go in the face of adversity. Sometimes the go is to a different congregation. Sometimes it is to leave the faith entirely.

The Bethel brothers do push back against apostasy, but with such a non-applicable vagueness that you wonder if they are not keeping something under wraps. They give the solution without mentioning the sticky scenario that requires it.  ‘The unanswered argument always appears stronger for that reason,’ I read somewhere. It makes those who examine it overestimate its strength and those who don’t can become almost superstitious, fearing the power of ‘poisonous’ words.

On 2/14/2024 at 11:21 AM, JW Insider said:

Going around saying these things never happened, or that they are all lies doesn't help. In fact, it makes things worse for those who end up believing that and trying to defend the WTS against what turns out to be true. We end up looking uninformed, or haughty, naive, or worse yet, like liars ourselves.

It can happen. Every malcontent wants to control the narrative. He wants your agenda to be replaced by his. To indulge him in all his accusations is dumb. However, to pretend he doesn’t exist isn’t all that much better. 

On 2/14/2024 at 11:21 AM, JW Insider said:

People who are curious enough to go venture online "on their own" are going to hear all these things sooner or later anyway, so why not prepare them.

Sure. It’s inconsistent to present investigation as bad when it was investigation that led us to become Witnesses in the first place. It’s enough to say, ‘Well, you wouldn’t want to hang out there, but if you go there at all, watch out for toxic people, hypercritical people, unforgiving people, and OCD people—all of whom present in great numbers.’

The brothers really do give excellent counsel on combatting apostasy, but it can come across as hamstrung by a determination to avoid specifics. In the latest monthly broadcast one of the helpers gives such a talk. It is overall pretty good. But it starts with something like, ‘have you ever heard negative reports on JWs? It might be about (he mentions a few things that no one cares about—maybe they did at one time, but not now) and then says, ‘or maybe it is about our view of disfellowshipping. Bingo. I’d love to see a talk specifically on this topic. Maybe this is not the occasion for it, but is there one somewhere? A talk explaining the need for such discipline, and backing it up with secular considerations, not just the biblical ones that resonate with fewer and fewer people today. Something along the lines of, https://www.tomsheepandgoats.com/2018/08/the-trump-card-of-christian-discipline.html, maybe.

No need to present a litany of court cases, which opposers want done. There’s hardly a point, anyway. The pattern today is that activists influence law to the point they sometimes replace it. Lower courts may be swayed, but higher courts, not yet so infiltrated, overturns negative rulings on the basis of higher principles. Will this trend continue? Who knows? As activist ‘wokeism’ advances, with it’s demand of ‘inclusion,’ sparks fly with any religion that wants ‘insulation,’ essentially, that wants to follow Jesus direction to be ‘no part of the world.’ In the secular world, we see that law is turned inside-out and upside-down in an attempt to advance political or social causes. Will such legal manipulation one day ensnare us at the highest court level? As it did in Russia, and then the ECHR overturned the Russian Supreme Count verdict against the JW organization and the next day Russia removed itself from it’s jurisdiction?

So far, the earthly organization has proved adept at tweaking and amending policies to stay a step ahead of ones who use law in order to shut them down, Russia notwithstanding.  Always, such tweaks and amendments are lambasted as hypocrisy by opponents. Sometimes the brothers are somewhat clunky in response, but they do respond with what generally makes things better, leading some to say, ‘Jehovah uses the world to discipline his people!’ something I don’t say, but if it results in better policies and better navigation amidst a sea of circling sharks, why quibble?  

If money is involved in any way, as it always will be with any large organization, then it is, ‘It’s all about money with them!’ Even if one takes this view, so what? ‘Is there any among you whose bull will fall into a pit who will not drop everything until it is pulled out?’ Jesus says. Preservation of money is an unremarkable concern in secular matters of life. Money has the power to do things, so you want to keep it if you can. It’s only the ‘love of money’ that messes you up, not money itself.

The reason kids do not walk up and down the street with a shovel in winter or a lawn mower in summer, the way they used to, is that nobody will hire them. The reason nobody will hire them is that lawyers have exploited the occasional accident to award multi-million dollar verdicts. That’s why I pulled into the street of my childhood home to see my 77-year old dad, raised on a farm, perched atop his 2-story suburban home doing a re-roof. ‘Hey, Pop, you don’t have anything to prove at your age,’ I told him. It is also why every town used to have a ‘Suicide Hill’ for winter sledding, but now none of them do. It is safety, to be sure, but safety mostly driven by money. That hill was mobbed when I was a boy; my dad would take us there, as did many dads. Every so often, someone would break his leg. He’d emerge from the hospital on crutches with a bill for $100. Today, that bill might be in the hundreds of thousands, and people on TV would tell how their lawyer ‘got them 10 times what the insurance company offered.’

23 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

As much as the "broad and free freedom of communication" through today's predominantly digital means has its downsides, there are just as many positive aspects that will help individuals make "informed decisions" regarding their religious affiliation and dependence on certain ideologies of any provenance

The trouble with social media is that a comment from a principled and thoughtful person is immediately followed by one from a hedonistic moron who nonetheless carries equal weight. I am ecstatic about the internet. Something that would have taken me days to research I can now find out in seconds. But I haven’t lost sight of the fact that, by far, the greatest use of the internet is for porn. Closing in quickly is the spread of ‘misinformation,’ which is always in the eye of the beholder, lately countered with ‘fact-checking’ which is also in the eye of the beholder. AI Chat and, Lord help us, deep fakes, will presently make us all (except for some on this forum, of course) a flock of permanently-manipulated marks. AI tells us various things, but the Musk’s AI, fed differing algorithms, tell us another. And yet people are awed by artificial intelligence and count it as truly intelligent.

It’s not so much the thought that you may be ‘manipulated’ on the JW website that rankles; it is the ridiculous thought that you will not be manipulated elsewhere, only more subtly, with the always reassuring majority backing, and it accord with the modern spirit to let no one tell us what to do! Those who decry brainwashing the loudest are not so much concerned about brainwashing, but about brainwashing that is not theirs. Everything must be seen in the context of, ‘Government by God, or Government by Man,’ the universal issue that Watchtower publications put their finger on a century ago. 

Social media ‘exposes’ the faults of others, to be sure, but has it taken people anywhere other than it dawning on them they must rely upon themselves (not terrible in itself) because (the following is terrible) nobody is to be trusted. Twenty years into the widespread adoption of social media, has hatred been beaten back? Or has it increased ten-fold? These things are better seen in absence of any JW context, pro or con. Is there any figure anywhere, other than the occasional no-count entertainer or athlete, who garners overall public support. Or do we not just see the unseemly results when their respective enemies succeed in landing a punch or kicking them in the you-know-whats, revealing their shortcomings for all to see?

All the same, if social media exists and becomes all the rage, as it has, you’d better learn how to use it. You don’t want to be like the Amish man who says, ‘Forget these wicked cars from the Devil. It’s horse and buggy for us!’ You will overall lose, because Christians are destined to lose, as enemies are written to have their day in the sun, as they did with our Lord, before the tables are turned to make victory our of defeat. But, even as you do lose, you will likely succeed in keeping more of your own people and will draw in a certain number of high-information people who can recognize the big picture—the sort of people JWs drew in decades ago from the religious world before anyone ever heard of social media. A bit of training would help equip ones so inclined, just as we train in other aspects of communication. 

In Tom Irregardless and Me, I wrote about the JW website, then relatively new on the internet:

“Members of the Governing Body thus repeat the pattern they are known for with any new technology: They eye it with suspicion. They advise caution. They know that when the thief switches getaway cars, it is the thief you have to watch, not the dazzling features of the new car. They follow the thief for a time. Convinced at last that they still have a bead on him, they examine the car. They circle it warily, kicking the tires. At last satisfied, they jump in with both feet and put it to good uses its inventors could only have dreamed of.”

They have done that with the internet. They have not yet done that with social media. At present, the strategy still seems to be to hope it goes away.

2 hours ago, JW Insider said:

Years ago, a few of these names had contacts going up to HQ (Bethel), although HQ began cracking down (again) on any further scholarly groups, and finally was able to effectively get rid of them. This crackdown had also been tried in the early 1980's for obvious reasons too.

I think that’s why everyone leaves me alone, more or less, because I don’t go to Bethel and tell everyone what to do.

1 hour ago, Pudgy said:

People in California deny reality all the time. 

In the sequel, Dorothy follows the yellow brick road as instructed. ‘Ah crap!’ she says at movie’s end. ‘California!’

I got into some trouble with this post on FB. Several who use Zoom a lot were indignant, thinking I was calling them luke-warm Christians or worse. One, who has always been a pal, proceeded to tell me off on no uncertain terms.

Of course, it is my own fault, as @George88 pointed out. Had I made clear from the beginning that the opening question was not mine, it would not have happened. I told this brother that 

“I wasn’t speaking at all about you or any of the situations you mention. I should have stated—and would have were I to do it again—that the Question about ‘boring meetings’ is not mine, but was taken off a social media site (Quora) that pitches out questions for anyone to answer. I decided to answer it, and so the next three paragraphs are mine, but not the question itself. It may be the question was not written by a current Witness at all, but a former one. There are some in that population that openly boast of being PIMO, with the eventual ‘goal’ of being POMO (physically out/mentally out). Many of the friends have never even heard of that terminology, but it is sort of a modern-day ‘Demas has forsaken me because he loved the present system of things.’ It is among the reason that our numbers have been stuck around 8 million for many years now, barely growing at all. I wasn’t in any way speaking of ones like you.”

upon which, he made a graceful reply and all is well again.

On the one hand, I was heartened that so many black screens chewed me out, taking umbrage that I should think them PIMO. On the other, I was disheartened that so many had never even heard of the term—not the term itself, really, but the phenomenon. Alas, it does kind of smack (in the case of those who are shepherds) of not knowing the appearance of the flock.

On 2/12/2024 at 1:37 AM, JW Insider said:

But If I snitch to their parents I wouldn't get any help lifting things next week when we do this again.

Al Kapp, the cartoonist, stuck to traditional ‘follow the flag’ values. He didn’t think much of the young people protesting, and lampooned them with the group, S.W.I.N.E. (Students Wildly Indignant about Nearly Everything) 

He would appear on campus and tell them off. One of the protesting youths asked the pugnacious fellow whether he thought young people held any advantage at all over older ones. ‘Yes, they’re better at carrying luggage,’ he replied.

2 hours ago, Anna said:

If you read the comments left by people it seems like they're not really interested in who Jehovah really is.

Nonetheless, from this point on, I strapping on a guitar when preaching among the young.

2 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

What to one person is not being swept along by the fads and vagaries of men is to another just being a bunch of fuddy-daddies.

Duddies.

Not daddies.

As far as I know, there are no fuddy daddies, or at least if there are it might be some relation to sugar daddies.

1 hour ago, George88 said:

The original language you began with was precisely as it appeared—criticism. The way things are perceived is crucial.

Yeah, I suppose you’re right. I probably should have clarified from the start that it was a question encountered on social media, not my own. I’ll do that should there be any reincarnations.

10 hours ago, Anna said:

Well, we don't do it often (zoom) but when we do it's because we are sick/not feeling good, so we don't want to show our sickly mug, and as soon as the meeting is over we sign out. We are definitely not PIMO. So if you're ever zooming into our meeting and we're all blacked out don't make that connection, but bring us some hot chicken noodle soup, actually, just leave it on the doorstep. Thank you.

I caught some flak on Facebook over the post, similar to yours, as though I was suggesting any black screen is a PIMO. I wasn’t. One person confessed to a certain form of social phobia but was very much in the program, saying how much better Zoom was than the old phone lines. To him, I said,

“It all works. Lots of reasons to prefer Zoom. I didn’t mean this to be a judgmental post. I just agree that among the constant black screen no-shows there are probably some who have tired of the whole program but don’t want others to think so. I didn’t mean to suggest it was anyone’s duty to figure out who was who.”

Another thought it not good to be suspicious of one’s brothers. I replied, “This is well-stated, [in both cases, I addressed them by name]. Suspicion was not what I meant to encourage. ‘Open to the possibility’ was more my point. And even when the latter is the case, that doesn’t mean a person won’t benefit from a hand of friendship. Thanks for commenting as you have.”

Two persons didn’t know what PIMO was, which I don’t think is very healthy—a little like the Russian Supreme Court refusing to look at what everyone else had seen, video-recorded evidence of incriminating material being planted by authorities. Of course, that is not to blame those friends. You’ll never hear the term PIMO at the Kingdom Hall or via the literature. It hampers people to be so uninformed about what large swaths of others are up to.

I think some were confused by the question itself. I took it off Quora, a social media site which has (I think) taken to generating many ridiculous questions about JWs (though, this wasn’t one of them) through AI, (sigh—which some brothers appear to take as though sincere questions from interested persons)

8 hours ago, JW Insider said:

I dropped some very general hints to the parent of the MS that we have to watch our young ones closely especially around that age, but probably didn't say enough. Haven't done anything Matthew 18-ish. 

Yeah, I know the feeling. The trouble is, you almost can’t, since we are primed to overreact. 

1 hour ago, Anna said:

Also reminds me of an anecdote where a teacher was asked how he knew a student was looking at his phone when they were being so stealth about it. He said: no one smiles at their crotch.

I see you don’t keep up with modern science. I believe several genders have been discovered in which they do just that.

1 hour ago, Anna said:

Maybe if our meetings were more like this the PIMOs might be tempted to attend in person? 😂

 

Hey, this is pretty good. And isn’t that Many Miles 8 rows back, 4th from the left? 

I hope the brothers don’t harrumph too much over it. It’s not like they could endorse it, but it is possible to say, ‘You know, there’s a place to learn more about this Jehovah.’ What to one person is not being swept along by the fads and vagaries of men is to another just being a bunch of fuddy-daddies.

Q: How much credit do PIMO Jehovah’s Witnesses owe to Zoom for freeing them from attending boring meetings at the Kingdom Hall?

Probably quite a bit, though simply fading would accomplish the same goal, minus the certain element of hypocrisy. Fading works fine for those who wish to leave. As long as one doesn’t go publicly reviling, robbing banks, or killing people, one is fine.

A consistent blackened screen without any participation always suggests to me PIMO as a possibility, save for obvious cases of infirmity, distance, hardship, etc. Nor is anyone fooled in the long run. Witnesses bond so readily with their fellow believers, even from around the world, because 2/3 of what they have in common is their spirituality/love of God. Begin to indicate that 2/3 is not very important to you, and in time relationships, even friendships, will shift.

I mean, I don’t think those meetings are boring at all, but if I did, I not only wouldn’t go but I also wouldn’t use Zoom in an attempt to deceive others into thinking I was. I like to think I have some backbone.

24 minutes ago, Pudgy said:

I stopped when I realized if you assume EVERYBODY is a quack, especially about things that have NO PRACTICAL VALUE … the reward is peace and contentment.

Now if Tucker had asked Putin whether Moscow girls really do make him sing and shout, then we’d have something to hang our hats on.

On 2/5/2024 at 10:45 PM, Manuel Boyet Enicola said:

Just wondering why so much 'hatred' (sorry for lack of term; do help me here.) for the GB/JWorg.  Same thing could be said of other religious groups --- and even worse.  😁

So that you can select from this small group of faiths the one comprised of true followers of Christ. If a religious group is not hated, it is disqualified from consideration, since the Bible repeatedly says that true Christians will be hated. For example: 

If you were part of the world, the world would be fond of what is its own. Now because you are no part of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, for this reason the world hates you. (John 15:19)

1 hour ago, BTK59 said:

If it's worth arguing about, why not have Tom or JWinsider contact the Watchtower help desk and inquire whether Bro. Jackson is indeed wearing a goatee, not a goatie?

 

I’m on it.

(please be patient)

1 hour ago, BTK59 said:

If you want to challenge Magnum's perspective by proving him wrong, feel free to do so at Jehovah's-Witness.com. Just be prepared for the possibility of him strongly disagreeing with you. Lol!

Oh, yeah. Put me in the lineup. Great use of time, that will be.  

24 minutes ago, BTK59 said:

Indeed, this topic is widely discussed on websites that are critical of the Watchtower organization. Surprisingly, even individuals like Magnum, who strongly oppose Jehovah's Witnesses, consider this particular claim to be fabricated.

I don’t really believe it simply on the basis of character. It is not something I can picture him doing.

I dunno. He looks like a Bond villain about to order a nuclear strike.

2 hours ago, Pudgy said:

THIS is what I found in the February 2017 Digital JW.org files Watchtower.  

It looks like I have been bamboozled … again, my apologies to all. 

Thanks Tom for the well deserved criticism.

If only a lesson was to be learned from it.