Srecko Sostar

Regular or not, WT and other sister companies under GB directive are mix of many various entities in various forms of existence: IT company, Building company, Charity, Educational system, Religion, Civil participant for human and religious (political) rights in secular bodies, Financial company for collecting and multiplying money, and perhaps more. Yes, WT is specific formation with "Priests and Kings" who wish and hope to take rulership over the Earth aka power over humankind.

Sorry, i am not follow you. Prosecutor's perspective? I made quotes from article that described Court ruling, decisions and explanations, and nothing from prosecutor or his perspective. WT lawyer who defended Organization made "perspectives" and Court made "perspectives". With or without understanding, WT lawyers often undermine the truth. With or without scripture. With or without WT published material as "prove", WT Society want to act as theocratic state inside secular state. One popular Bible verse for that, for sure is, when 1st century followers were advised and recommended to go to elder's court of justice and not to secular courts, for their rights or because of lawsuits against fellow Christians. According to WT doctrines and policies, all elders are "equipped" to deal with all and every situation that can happen in "spiritual paradise" aka Organization aka JW Congregation. They formed "Judicial Committees" and other elder's bodies to fulfill various tasks in such process and proceeding. The existence of a "keepers"-brothers who monitoring (don't know English terminology in JW congregation, servant service, stewards or so) at meetings and congresses speaks of such a similarity too. Similarity is visible.

If God already see "harvest" in someone, than all this passed (and future) times of examinations, trials, sufferings, misery, exams, tests, right and wrong truths, punishments from god or human, remorse and/or stubbornness for an act done or not done, calling people to join this or that church, searching for answers, fear of the future and fear of god’s final judgment, fear of disappointing god ...etc. are unnecessary. Almost vast of time. But God is eternal, He has all time. Here we have question; Did god knew what will happen with Adam and Eve? And WTJWorg answer how god didn't want to go and look for their future because He respects free will and don't want enters someone’s privacy... ??!! Perhaps we all are part of "experiment"? :))

Article quote: A new Supreme Court ruling that Jehovah’s Witnesses are free to banish and shun any member they wish, regardless of how they decide to do it, offers a powerful precedent for religious independence in Canada. I would like to direct your attention how Court in Canada confirmed what WT lawyer David Gnam in UK tried to hide: JW's shun any member they wish. WT lawyer claimed before Court how: Jehovah’s Witnesses don’t use the word “shun” or “shunning”. But this Court in Canada told The Truth, JW's not only using word shun, but have all rights to practice shunning over members (or ex members) they wish. - WTJWorg are so satisfied to use double measures in various court cases, and have no problem about own hypocrisy. Shameful! Article continue: The top court’s decision rejects that view, bluntly refers to his “sinful” behaviour, and says it has no business making legal decisions about it. At issue were two episodes of drunkenness, one in which Wall “verbally abused” his wife, for which he was not “sufficiently repentant,” according to court records. I don't clearly see how two episodes of drunkenness, one in which Wall “verbally abused” his wife is not something that can be interesting to police or social service or some other civil service in state. Drunkenness and abusing other people is something that is punishable in most countries. In his case somebody reported him to JW elders and not to secular authority for his "sinful behavior". If JW church have right, according to Canadian Supreme Court, to make decisions how they will "punish" "sinful behavior" of member, what is that different when some other church doing same according to their "religious beliefs", because as article say: But the Supreme Court has now said once and for all that the courts ought not to interfere in religious discipline. Well, what is this different to "religious discipline", for example, to cut hand of thief or to stone adulteress because of their "sin" -The top court’s decision rejects that view, bluntly refers to his “sinful” behaviour, and says it has no business making legal decisions about it. But all "civilized world" looks with disapproval when this sort of punishment is common practice in some societies. :))

Please CC, as usual i put in question people. People who claims that they working God's job and will on Earth. But also, we are entitled to put some questions to God too. Clever or stupid, disturbing or suspicious, which question "God’s decisions" revealed in Bible. Revealed by writing hands of human and translated by human, with various interpretations made by human aka religious systems aka organized religions. Well, in all that i or somebody else not questioning God solely, but also or to be said, more than God we have to question human visions and interpretations of God, too. For sake of argument only, i will ask god again, why He need more time for "issues" about ... "can people rule without god?", "why does god allow evil?". ... for this questions has been answered by men (and angels) long before.

Don’t forget that most of the problems and injustices were done by those people who used God’s Word to “get others in order”. Self-righteous and zealous, always ready to trow "first stone".

By reading Paul's words, i would conclude how all that already happened in his time. Paul under inspiration wrote about him and some other people ( he said - "we") who will "survive presence". And after that "surviving" they will be "caught away in clouds". It is free to be conclude how Jesus "presence" happened in Paul's time. He, Paul, speaking about it as he and them (he said - "we") will participate in that going to Lord. He was "inspired" to tell this. Under "inspiration" he made prophecy and future event that is sure and that will affect "their" lives (his and people he told about as - "we"), and not about some other people lives 20 centuries later. And, of course, another detail we have to take in consideration. No matter is number "144 000" literal or symbolic, Christian congregation/s in 1st century for sure had more than 144 000 (anointed) followers of Jesus. ----------------------------- What is the meaning of this described event? This was literal and visible to physical eyes and happened before Paul's words. And when Jesus had cried out again in a loud voice, he gave up his spirit. At that moment the curtain of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom. The earth shook, the rocks split and the tombs broke open. The bodies of many holy people who had died were raised to life. They came out of the tombs after Jesus’ resurrection and[a] went into the holy city and appeared to many people. - Matt 27

All these decades in the Organization .... it has been constantly taught that the anointed began to be resurrected from 1914. And this as if they were all resurrected at the same time, and those who died after 1914 were also resurrected to life in heaven in moment of death. What was strange is Paul's words about "instantly change". No one in WTJWorg was never saw nothing like that from 1914 till today. Well, what really happened in 1914? Or any year before or after (Russell', Rutherford' etc. guessing)? Because, no JW anointed was not affected by the "change", which should be "seen" on the living anointed, it can easily be concluded that we do not live in time of parousia or in time of "parousia's interpretations". Once again, WT doctrines and interpretations are so problematic.

I personally never heard about such things. But it is possible that such decisions of the JW elders also happen.

Purpose of this Forum is unknown to me. Owners knows real meaning and reasons for existing. But I am glad to be user and participant in various topics, and can say, "Thanks" for this Forum. Of course that you are right when said how this Forum can "vanish into the abyss I don’t think they would miss it." if you ask WTJWorg. In fact they would be very happy to see this happen. Because our conversation challenging WT doctrines and revealing how this religion often manipulate with people's emotions and minds. And how they are ready to deceive and to change rhetoric when it is need. For example, Geoffrey Jackson, GB member aka Top Manager of Society, publicly claimed before ARC how they, GB, are not the only spokesperson for God on Earth. On other hand they teaching members how they have to obey GB in all instructions and follow the leadership of GB, because that is only way to survive Armageddon. I am almost surprised that you Tom gave such bad review about this Forum and tell others that they waste their time here on this Forum. Perhaps JWorg have some better "Forum"? I hope you would take participation there, in the same manner you doing here. :))

* bold mine

Perhaps yes, perhaps no. It seems how you and elders have suspicion that she was sincere. Maybe elders would be do better to ask police about it before making decision that she is "harlot" or "adulteress".

No Tom. I tried to show how our "courage" to do "right thing" depending and/or not depending on external and internal "threats".

@TrueTomHarley ... thanks for long post. Praiseworthy and worthy to imitate, try to follow an example, every example that respects and saves lives. It is unfortunate that, we humans, have lost our inner feelings for right and wrong, and that/how belonging to something (religion, politics, philosophy, etc.) becomes a method by which certain good values are achieved or which lead to the opposite side, to the side of evil. Let us not forget that many who were willing to sacrifice themselves in this way for others, perhaps, in another circumstance, are willing to do something that nullifies their great sacrifice they have made. Imagine, I'm hiding a JW brother or a non-JW person from the massacre yesterday .... and today I completely ignore (shun) on the road someone who has stopped being a JW brother for some reason. Or even more frighteningly, consciously or unconsciously, JW’s brother supports wrong instructions regarding how to deal with cases of pedophilia. And how the victims of pedophilia “die” because no one has “hidden” them from the villains and from those who have allowed evil to continue to happen. So Tom, it should be said that JW’s have shown courage in Nazi Germany and Rwanda. But it should also be said that the JWs did not really express themselves in “peacetime” in “their own country, the homeland, which is called Spiritual Paradise” when victims of CSA call for help and only few try to help them .... and many others could not or would not hear their voice because of the great noise of those who shouted, "We are the best religion."

the bride of Christ will join the groom in heaven - this takes place before Armageddon because they will assist Jesus during Armageddon. Will you enjoy, will you be "Invited", to be able to be "Happy", as Revelation said ?

Agree. But we have to be careful and sensitive. JHVH is much more understandable than GB. You can argue and question with JHVH, but do not dare doing that with GB :)))) This quote from WT magazine that including "all intelligent creatures, seen and unseen" and Bible verses that i looked at have nothing to support each other. Did i missed something while reading? *** w58 6/1 p. 330 Why Dedicate Ourselves to God? *** Yes, all such would foolishly ignore the instruction Book of their Maker and his “traffic laws” for living. And yet that is the very course that more than 99.9 percent of earth’s population *** w55 11/1 p. 648 Using Wisely the Reduced Time Left *** Time spent in trying to accumulate wealth, fame or power or in trying to perpetuate this old system of things is wasted, and that is what more than 99.9 per cent of this earth’s population are doing. Of course, we don't know. CC has pointed out before that he thinks most Witnesses are not true Witnesses, with true faith. He has also made statements that question faith and loyalty of elders and ministerial servants. So perhaps the percentage of actual survivors is much lower than .1 percent from CC's perspective. Excellent! you clump all these concepts together as if they are one concept. they are not - so I do not agree with you. :)))) Bible is massive and long context.

Are you or some other JW's invited to the evening meal, marriage celebration? When, where and how? Literally or symbolically? How looks interpretation/s? And what Bible verses supports this sort of interpretations?

Excellent point! According to WTJWorg theology, people would need to prove their faithfulness twice. As imperfect humans and than again as perfect humans ?? Does God need this "proof of fidelity and obeying" or Organization? In fact, according to quote you put from WT magazine, Organization aka New York Headquarter (who will be in New World as Main Administration of Jesus Kingdom, perhaps this new facilities was built to survive Armageddon :)))) need constant attestation from members now and in New System. Man maid religion, for sure. religion = a personal set or institutionalized system of religious attitudes, beliefs, and practices - https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/religion Definition: A form of worship. It includes a system of religious attitudes, beliefs, and practices; these may be personal, or they may be advocated by an organization. Usually religion involves belief in God or in a number of gods; or it treats humans, objects, desires, or forces as objects of worship. Much religion is based on human study of nature; there is also revealed religion. There is true religion and false. - https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1101989261

Perhaps, after all, "spiritual food" from "JHVH table" is not free and available "for all people". WTJWorg is Company. Everything has to be paid for there. Either with voluntary contributions and work or through lawsuits. And "free speech issue" is something reserved only for WT lawyers to defend on courts. :)) Imagine Jesus which would not allow others to quote, cited him without his permission. Can you? Should you? And GB+Helpers (with WT lawyers) should be role models to others (JW members first) to imitate their faith and works ... in suing other people because they replay (copy-paste) so-called "Jesus's teaching" ?? :))

This is witty answer. I believe how more JW's try answer this way, because of need to give answer that is more acceptable for non-JW people. In fact, i think 70%-80% of JW's thinks how only JW will be saved. Oh Man, you need more faith :)) People prefer government that not gives promises only :)) Faith without works is dead .... as same as works with faith can be rejected. Bible speaking about it too.

I am signing a lot, many petitions on Lady Freethinker page. Humans are brutal. Disgustingly brutal!! https://ladyfreethinker.org/sign-justice-for-kitten-stolen-from-porch-and-drenched-in-poisonous-bug-spray/?utm_source=Newsletter&utm_medium=Email

Out of detail did animals eat each other before Adam and Eve creation, or will they do it again in New World and after, it seems how this World living in two parallel reality. People got imperfection and living "imperfect life in imperfect World, after "sin". But animal continued to live as "perfect creatures" in own spiritual and literal "paradise" until now, but in dangerous from human.

------------------------------------------------------ Next issue: As i mentioned before, about testing, we have interesting Bible report. About testing human. One test was in Garden with Tree, Adam and Eve. Next testing, according to WTJWorg is at the end of Jesus Kingdom. Here we have 2 Divine Testing and only humans are included. Nothing about "spiritual beings". But as Bible said rebellion started with angels, not human. Well, is "perfection" of human Adam and Eve, and "perfection" of people at the end of 1000 years "smaller" than "perfection" of angels which have never been tested and never will, because Bible said nothing about it? As JWI said, we can see how there are several causes of death that we (humans) experienced. Perhaps those sort of "deaths" will be "destroyed".

I am not aware of such Bible verses. Perhaps "father of lie" and "murderer"?

Universe is full of moments when "things" come to existence and after some time stop to exist. Stars are "dying" too. I don't know exactly what author of WT article meant when he wrote death has never existed in heaven because if God created Universe as we know it today, death was always and is today and will be part of Creation and Universe, part of life. We can say how ... death was created, too. Death came into existence when "things" were created, from the moment they came into being.