Srecko Sostar

"Generation" is cluster (of people) around major historical events. "Historical generation" are people who have an experience or a series of experience. In both examples we see how center of attention, limelight are not people but events or in Bible terminology "signs". But, are they, "signs" in the eyes of the beholder trustful, reliable measure for conclusions? And as you mentioned before, what "signs" and events truly speaking? Are they beginning of start point or beginning of end point? Or, are they a means for help, for understanding that it will become more difficult for each generation in each subsequent period marked by new and uncertain things, events, circumstances? Things can going from bad to worst, and they going in that direction for centuries. But also, we see how some things went from bad to better. It depends, all is in the eyes of beholder.

Question is: Do they, as one group of people, who were part of some particular event or/and events that is of special significance for human, for nation, for individual (or for God) constitute "generation"? "Generation" in only one meaning and for only one purpose as WTJWorg done and still doing with "1914 Generation"? We could speak about specific event/s that marked some period of time, than that could include people of various ages and prominence/background, in one part of the world or on global scene. Biggest Tsunami in Philippine, biggest Hurricane in Florida, biggest earthquake in Croatia marks specific time period in particular part of world and by that particular people in that time frame when event occurred can be possible to put into "generation frame" as one of possible meaning according to Dictionaries. People of many various ages, nationality, ethnicity and religious, educational ... etc belongings, were part of one group of people (not generation in chronology sense) that were connected because of same, collective experience inside same event or inside same time frame . Perhaps using wording 1914 Generation (in various meaning and content, from: all people to wicked people to 144000 class to GB members) for this and such purpose (speaking about particular time period and events inside particular time frame) is not best choice and not describe real meaning and purpose. Also, what is of main importance in connection to WTJWorg and Bible context. Their fixation on the year 1914 as start point of events and their fixation on particular people who was born in that year, who was old enough to saw that year events, who was part of something in that year, became Conceptual Problem for some time already. Only for that reason they came with "overlapping generation" . But, in fact they already accepted old meaning, from past till today, how generation, as term already means overlapping (b: a group of individuals born and living contemporaneously). In fact GB not invented nothing new but they just contributed to more confusion in already confusing doctrine and they try to stretch time frame little more, because narrow, strait life span of generation as partially biblical view is 70-80 years. WTJWorg no longer have Basic 1914 Generation doctrine, because that doctrine, as religious truth, became religious lie. But they have need to continue with same wrong, err doctrine and continue with it. Lie with new wording - "overlapping generation". Since consumers in an OLG model are modeled as individuals who live for n periods (n ≥2), people born in n different periods (or n different generations) coexist in any given period t. While consumers die at the end of n periods, reproduction assures that there will be an infinite succession of consumers, each living for n periods. - https://www.encyclopedia.com/social-sciences/applied-and-social-sciences-magazines/overlapping-generations-model For sure, WT doctrines Consumers coexist in any given period. ;))) I would look on their religious problem with this thoughts. If they are enough aware how wrong they are and they were all this paste decades after 1914 generation died and not see fulfill about all promises that WT published, nowadays WT bible scholars and leaders missed opportunity and moment to throw away all that errors. And to purified themselves. But with upgrading old misconception they inherited from past leaders, they (today leadership) purposely entering into darker space. Why? Because of reason to justified old error they constructed new fixation with intention to cover old error. And such mental process with this sort of product from these individuals, made them to be religious fraudsters or liars. Definition of generation 1a: a body of living beings constituting a single step in the line of descent from an ancestor b: a group of individuals born and living contemporaneously the younger generation c: a group of individuals having contemporaneously a status (such as that of students in a school) which each one holds only for a limited period d: a type or class of objects usually developed from an earlier type first of the … new generation of powerful supersonic fighters— Kenneth Koyen 2a: the action or process of producing offspring : PROCREATION b: the process of coming or bringing into being generation of income c: origination by a generating process : PRODUCTION especially : formation of a geometric figure by motion of another 3: the average span of time between the birth of parents and that of their offspring - https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/generation

It is interesting to notice how WTJWorg Managers took bible terminology for Holy Spirit, that is "Helper", and transfer it to Humans who replaced HS and became Helpers for one part of "anointed" aka GB. When GB claim how not even they and no one else in JW chuch is "inspired" by HS, it is understandable why they need another sort of helping from "Helpers" who also have nothing with HS. After he received HS, with gift or gifts that is/are unknown to us because Bible not spoke about that, we also have no report did Cornelius became elder, missioner, member of Jerusalem Body, or member of some Christian "Branch Office" in other part of the world, left service in Roman army ... etc, etc.

As far as I know (I do not know the exact history and origin of such a calculation) a period of one year or 12 months is the framework for measuring the term - generation. So, all persons born within those 12 months of a given year can be considered to be one (1) generation. Every person born after December 31st in a given year, becomes part of some other generation from the following year with the date of January 1. This is a normal and common understanding of the term generation. And it works still today between people with normal, common sense. :))) Everything else one wants to add as an explanation for the purpose of defending the idea of GB about the "overlapping generation" is nothing but religious entanglements that should support a failed organized-religious concept of a failed ideology that is still alive in WTJWorg. Most here have finished high school. When you graduated, what generation of graduates were you? What generation of graduates do you still belong to today? To my generation, was born in 1961? Or my father generation who was born in 1923? ............. Or you belong to both (triple) generations of graduates in the same time because you were born in 1949?

Even the voice of S. Lett made me to visual his facial expressions ... it is impossible to erase picture of him giving the talk, ... must be some sort of OCD in my head :)))))

What? None of them making tents? :)))

Would you give a guess, what would Paul doing today if he would be in JW congregation? What sort of job for living?

If it is advice to be as Paul, ....than why all this people in WT branches living on other people money donations?! Don't you think how your response on this ex pioneer letter is inappropriate. GB members, and Lett specifically, publicly asking for more donation, money. Why he and other in his team not get secular jobs and give money from own salaries?? That would be better way to show "trust" in JHVH. And not just better way, but according to "inspired" Paul Letters. Mr Lett TV preaching (call for money) is not "inspired", according to WT publications.

WT publications explained something about similar on "anointed". While they are on earth and imperfect as any other human, they would be able to understand, from heaven, same sort of people they used to be in the past. :)) Malenfant sort and model of argumentation was for one purpose only, to show how exclusively GB is "appointed for sure" and have something to say. Contrary, every other appointed JW member have to be in question and under suspicion about his "call".

The time test is one way things are revealed. Inside years and decades when other following their conduct and imitate their decisions, many are affected with things that much later will be found as wrong. But that is the price we all pays no matter what it is about. Exceptional mental effort is required to constantly re-examine one's own and others' opinions, ideas, beliefs, rules, doctrines. That is hard to achieve and I think we rarely succeed in that. And we need more time. That is why we have success only at periodic intervals. :))

JW's Judicial Committees is formed after elders came to knowledge about some wrongs that was done inside congregations. We making focus here on "doctrinal wrongs" made by members. In this logic every Committee have purpose and they gathered for one purpose. To correct member or to exclude him. JC working by The Book. These are: Bible, WT publications, internal Letters and Manuals and are powered with elders experience and motivations and outside influence coming from other prominent persons. JW's who lived in period when, for example, human organ transplantation had been considered as "sin" against Bible and God and "deserved" disfellowshipping of "wrongdoers", that would mean, from their (elders of those time) standpoint and view, how JC made "justified decision" in "given frames". But, spiritual and doctrinal "frames" are relative. It had been relative in the past, and they are relative today too. Because of enough experience about this, JW elders who serve in JC must be wiser and more discreet. And if they must dfd somebody let that be for really rudimentary, basic things and not about "quarrels over words and customs" aka about things, doctrines that no one not know for sure, but all only speculate how something maybe looks like. Should we judge and blame elders who acted according to false knowledge, err instructions and deceived "sound mind"? We can do that. Because they put their trust in other human, WT Top Management aka Directors later called GB and not JHVH and Jesus as they claimed and taught members from stage. On other hand ...., Truly I tell you, whatever you bind on earth will be[a] bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be[b] loosed in heaven." ..... also sounds very stretched just as a idea that elders are appointed by holy spirit. Nevertheless, we still have what Jehovah’s Word says about proper conduct and how matters should be decided. We can, in effect, determine what has already been decided on a matter in the heavens. Admittedly, due to human imperfections, mistakes in judgment are made at times, but this only emphasizes even more the need to adhere closely to the instructions in Jehovah’s Word in handling matters so as to be assured that what is decided is what has already been decided in heaven. - https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1981092 According to this, if WT elders, who acted in all past period of time and who acting today, under temporary "given frames" knew/know what was already been decided on a matter in the heavens because they have guidance of holy spirit than our discussion will be useful to only few who is in dilemma about elder's decision making process. :))

Thanks for respond. I can't take this explanation to be useful in defending Malenfant reasoning. After he told how no one in congregations knows who of anointed really received heavenly calling (congregants can only assume, guess and speculate, with visual observation, with the help of literal sight, how individuals who partaking symbols possibly have heavenly calling, as he explained) he went beyond own reasoning and conclusion and presentation about issue, and made second guess, thesis about same subject. In his next demonstration about same class, 144000 kings and priests who are all equal in this position before god, he put his personal (or small group) opinion above general, official doctrine presented few seconds before. It is known how WTJWorg published how some anointed are emotionally and mentally imbalanced, ill and partaking in symbols. And by that concluding how god will not choose such individual. But Malenfant stated how this relationship is of personal relationship and very private matter. Well, who we are to interfere if god want few "crazy" people to go to heaven??!! On other hand, when you said:... and that might be a little difficult if for example someone who has obvious mental problems claims to be anointed. However, it should be a lot easier if that person is of sound mind. If we are able to detect who is with mental problems and who have sound mind, it can be useful. But, what sort of mind (person) would/will devil use more for his purpose to deceive humankind with false doctrines? "Sound mind" or "mentally and emotionally disturbed mind"?? I am pretty sure in your answer :))

Malenfant: ".....after all JHVH has blessed them, they fulfill Bible prophecy about FDS. There are certain things that we acquire knowledge about and were convinced of. We see JHVH favor on them, we have no doubt that JHVH blessing is upon their effort to take of the domestic and provide spiritual food all of us. But there's something we don't know. We have nothing to do with the final sealing. That is a personal thing that take place between individual and JHVH god and ..... that's what we're told and that's what we understand ..." Listen what words he used to prove the subject: after all, they fulfill prophecy, were convinced of, we have no doubt that JHVH is upon their effort, that's what we're told and that's what we understand. Empty proves for spiritual blind mind to be convinced into deception, again.

I mean - precisely! Please accept my apologize for grammar error

Yes @Witness , you do preciously*, exactly summarized in a few words main message that this JW elder send to JW people. No one else of "anointed" around the world is/represents nothing in WTJWorg, but only few of them in GB behaves as head of Organization and elevates themselves above all other anointed in the Body. It seems they acting as Head of Body or at least as the Neck (as in joke, man is head of his wife but she is the neck who rotate head )) PS * precisely!

As @JW Insider emphasized about reasonableness, i would look at Jesus words and on practicing his words with little caution. Pharisees commanded not to work on Sabbath, for example. .... Well, Jesus done the opposite and he did not participate in do all the things they tell you.

It seems how WT Society have only one group of "anointed generation", and that is present GB. In his morning worship talk Mr. Malenfant explained this: "we don't need to know all names of the anointed on earth today, .... ... in our congregations we see the emblems being passed and we can see individuals partaking in ... ...it would be pointless to try and ascertain who among God's servants will eventually be part of 144000. The final judgement and sealing of the anointed is very private matter between JHVH and individual anointed ones...... .. and i might also add at this point. Even though we don't know about that personal relationship that comes about, we don't experience it ourselves, but we are convinced, for example, that the members of the GB have the heavenly calling." Mr Malenfant is person who can control his curiosity about things no one knows, not even he, but it seems how he knows all about that personal relationship and very private matter that supposedly exist between GB members and JHVH. :))) and he try to manipulate audience with this "confidential information".

It is possible, and not only very possible, but Elijah (Jonah, Jeremiah and Job too) asking god for death, because of depressed state of mind (Samson, Saul, Saul's arms bearer and Ahitofel succeeded in suicide wish. Even people, whose we do not perhaps consider as "mentally ill, diseased" or "spiritually weak" as faithful god's servants, showed exactly that, mental illness. Wishing to be dead is not what "normal" people ask for. What situations in life can bring that even "normal" and faithful religious individual (JW's or any other believer) come to "mental imbalance"? One of reason is/can be Flip-Flop with religious doctrines inside WTJWorg, for sure. After 40 years in WTJWorg it is not of surprise that i am just one of many (JW) ex-JW who was thought by WT Educational System to not going into the wisdom of these ("worldly") world and avoid anything that is opposite of Bible teachings. Bear in mind that i had been connected with JW church (as many other JW's) through my parents from earliest childhood. According to that, i stayed ignorant about many things, not just about governmental system :))))

Mental illnesses are also called mental disorders. They are extremely common in the population. Australia and US 1 of 5 live with mental illness, globally 1 of 10. https://www.healthdirect.gov.au/mental-illness https://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/statistics/mental-illness.shtml https://ourworldindata.org/mental-health List of disorders is long. https://www.verywellmind.com/a-list-of-psychological-disorders-2794776 There are nearly 300 mental disorders listed in the DSM-5 (Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders). This is a handbook used by health professionals to help identify and diagnose mental illness. - https://www.healthdirect.gov.au/types-of-mental-illness 1) Does "free will", as gift from god or as our imagined concept, contribute to this problem, cause it? Always present problem of what we want and wish on one side and what we may, must and should on another. 2) Is Gospel sort of magnet for "disturbed and imbalanced" people, if we have in mind who, what sort of people Jesus called and expected to follow Him (people who are rejected from society, who "suffered" )? 3) Does, whether JW's who left WTJWorg are good material to be more imbalanced and have mental issues? Or Organization as complete/ finalized system created individuals who would/will be "lost" without Organization? ......etc.

As individuals they are accountable not as a group. Well, JTR is right in his conclusion for a very long time :))

You have fine sense for humor. Our only goal here is to rise numbers of Member's Total Reputation, and best way for that, according to Forum, is to up-vote or like someone's comment. :))))

You made here excellently important point. Claims in WT publications said how Jesus and JHVH made examination and had chosen Them in 1919. WT members in those time, and members today have only such claims in publications at which they can put their trust. If Jesus and JHVH were involved than holy spirit was also involved in this appointed of anointed in WT Society. By all what is visible in Bible records we can conclude how people who claiming their appointed was done by those 3 are in dangerous position if holy spirit was not involved and if it is involved in process of appointing then or any time later. If holy spirit had nothing with their appointing than GB and all FDS inside WT Society speaking lies or if they are self deceived that makes them false teachers. If holy spirit did had something with past appointing of people in 1919, that not automatically making all who came later (after 1919) in WT Society to be also "appointed" and "chosen" by holy spirit. Because, it is well known how looked past hierarchic and how looks today this hierarchy in management of Organization. We see how elders are appointed, if they fulfilling some obligated recommendations according to some Bible verses. In such cases humans are those who making observation and recommendation and put individual on position. Holy spirit is not involved in that process, but elders in particular area/congregation. People who take symbols considers themselves as "anointed". Here we have another, different situation. People around this individuals are able to make conclusion about them primary on visible fact how they eat bread and drink red wine. But that also not making some individual to be really "anointed". Well, if GB siting on "Moses chair", because they participate in symbols, that not automatically makes them to be appointed by holy spirit, but can make them guilty before holy spirit. My business is not to remove them from "chair", but to not believe in every spirit who speaking "amazing things".

If Moses made only that one famous mistake, i would expect from God to forgive him, and not in the future time, after/with Resurrection, but in the very moment in the past. Perhaps God thought how Moses need extra lesson. It is interesting how You made conclusion, about GB, how they making similar mistakes as Moses, but not deserve immediate punishment as in his case. Does this mean how GB never was and never will make such sort of "mistake" and will enter into Promised Land despite those "mistakes"? What makes GB's and Moses's mistakes to be so different and not calls for same sort of treatment, not calls for using same Principles ??

Perhaps same treatment and attitude was used by Kremlin about JW letters ? ... I gather that they receive a steady stream of these from ones who indicate from their very first words that they are unhinged. For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe. 1 Cor 1 21 What if Jan Kosonen's "foolishness" is wisdom of God?