Srecko Sostar

If you will refer to what I actually said, Arauna, I said "many" ..... not all.
I faced 5 years in Federal Prison during the Vietnam War, and there were as many reasons why different people became conscientious objectors, as there were who became soldiers.

The ONLY environment I know of where it would be smart NOT to factor this in is religion, where apparently contributed money NEVER stops flowing in, like a Japanese Tsunami.
Double negatives make my head hurt!

It appears that Kingdom Halls, like old people, and radioactive materials, have a "half life".
I am 73, so statistically, half of people my age will be dead in 10 years. At 83, half of those people will be dead in ten years.
Then it speeds up.
At the end, I hope to read about it on the Internet .... BECAUSE ... I read FOXNEWS, and not CNN.

Um, empty K H's when the Governing Body say we are so close to the 'end of this system'. I thought there was supposed to be a massive influx near the end, not empty K H's. 
Actually it is quite difficult for a private person to get insurance for a minibus here in the UK.  The government seem to think it has to be for business use. And congregations will not support the running of a minibus, and elders make that clear. 
As for 'true Christians' travelling as far as it takes. That is not a loving thought. I know of older brothers and sisters that cannot drive in the dark. I think that here in the UK half of every congregation is old people. So where is this love that should abound in the 'truth' ?  

It’s about time! If you were more astute, I’d have 1000 from you by now.

Thanks.  I appreciate how you said this!
" False prophets appeared in the past among the people, and in the same way false teachers will appear among you. They will bring in destructive, untrue doctrines, and will deny the Master who redeemed them, and so they will bring upon themselves sudden destruction.  Even so, many will follow their immoral ways; and because of what they do, others will speak evil of the Way of truth.  In their greed these false teachers will make a profit out of telling you made-up stories. For a long time now their Judge has been ready, and their Destroyer has been wide awake!"  2 Pet 2:1-3
 
 

Point 1. I really do laugh at this term "Only game in town"   As I've said before the JEWISH RELIGIOUS LEADERS would have said that serving God by obeying THEM and the Mosaic Law, was the only game in town. Jesus however proved those Religious leaders to be wrong. Jesus and his disciples carried over the good points of the Mosaic Law and discarded the bits no longer needed. (Such as animal sacrifices, circumcision etc). 
Russell & Co came out of former religions. I presume they must have carried over some good points from those former religions, then made adjustments or changed doctrines.
So why would it not be possible for people that have left the JW Org to form a new religion ?  Carrying over the good and disposing of the bad, of which there seems to be plenty....
I'm not saying it will happen but it does dispose of this idea of 'the only game in town' brainwashing. JW's seem to be taught that there cannot be anything else ever. What if Russell had believed that, the Bible Students would have never been formed. 
Point 2.  The 'Truth' / JW Org.
As I read more and more on here I am finding out that the Governing Body / Writing Dept'  / Legal Dept' et al,  have deliberately told many lies.
The latest I'm reading (on a new topic on here) but the info stems back a while, seems to contain information whereby the 'Org' / those in charge at the time, implied, that children cannot get baptised, and that blood transfusions were acceptable to the Organisation. It seems that this was written in order to get favours from a certain government. 
Both of those things are lies but seem to be deliberately used for some form of dishonest gain.
Then of course we have lawyers telling lies in court about shunning. 
And C.S.A court cases have proved that elders and others have deliberately lied. And the American 'section' of the JW Org deliberately withholding information regarding such matters.
Link this to misuse of scriptures, such as, Superior Authorities, which deliberately took away people's conscience / freedom of choice, in WW2.
And I'm sure people here can come up with lots more examples of lies, deliberate wrongdoing, mistakes, misinterpretations, 'new light' corrections et al.
Why am i writing all this ?  Well I am proving two points. 
1. If it's your 'only game in town' then it's not a good one. 
2. That calling it 'The Truth' is totally deceptive.
I do not think you would like it if I gave you a meal that was three quarters yummy, but a quarter poison. The poison might well contaminate the good food !
So, saying that the Org / GB are three quarters right does not help. 
 
 
 
 

You talking about WT Society and "higher education" ? Because i spoke about "higher education" as something that GB see as not good for members. GB consider such plase as "brood" of fornication and demonic influence. But people where ever they  go will be faced with bad things ….even in JW congregations.
“The educational system varies from country to country. In the United States, for example, public schools offer 12 years of basic education. Thereafter, students may choose to attend university or college for four or more years, leading to a bachelor’s degree or to postgraduate studies for careers in medicine, law, engineering, and so forth. Such university education is what is meant when the term “higher education” is used in this article. On the other hand, there are technical and vocational schools, offering short-term courses that result in a certificate or diploma in some trade or service.” Watchtower 2005 Oct 1 p.27
The educational system in many countries teaches students not only practical skills but also human philosophy. Students are encouraged to question the existence of God and to disregard the Bible. …. Some Christians who have pursued university education have had their minds molded by human thinking rather than by God’s thinking. .... A sister who has been in full-time service for over 15 years says: “As a baptized Witness, I had read and heard about the dangers of pursuing university education ............ What effect did higher education have on this sister’s thinking? She answers: “I am ashamed to admit that the education I pursued taught me to be critical of others, especially my brothers and sisters, to expect too much of them, and to isolate myself from them -   Watchtower 2019 Jun pp.6-7
….and so forth
 

Water as symbol of God's Spirit.
By this, what Jesus told, this "inspirational water" has The Source in Jesus (and God). Well, it would be normal, and not mental issue, if somebody  come with claim how he/she is "inspired". :)) 

Water as symbol of God's Spirit.
By this, what Jesus told, this "inspirational water" has The Source in Jesus (and God). Well, it would be normal, and not mental issue, if somebody  come with claim how he/she is "inspired". :)) 

Water as symbol of God's Spirit.
By this, what Jesus told, this "inspirational water" has The Source in Jesus (and God). Well, it would be normal, and not mental issue, if somebody  come with claim how he/she is "inspired". :)) 

Isn’t this teaching served on “Jehovah’s rich spiritual table”?  Isn’t it based on a principle that is part of the foundation of the organization?  1914?  Every teaching on generation revolves around this date, and if anyone verbally rejects this date, they can be disfellowshipped.  
Partake appreciatively of the spiritual food available only at Jehovah’s table, and you will not be misled by false teachers or wicked spirit forces. w06 11/15 pp. 21-25 “When I go to Christian meetings, conventions, and assemblies and I am able to feast at Jehovah’s spiritual table, this really refreshes me spiritually,” she observes. w02 9/15 pp. 8-9 Can a typical JW distinguish between what is served on “Jehovah’s spiritual table” and what is concocted from the minds of men?  Yes, anyone has the right to speculate, but does the GB encourage it?  Are you even suppose to “go there” and "speculate" otherwise?
Why should we be on guard if someone begins to speculate or to speak critically?
9 We are nearing the outbreak of the great tribulation and the end of this wicked system, so those inspired warnings given in the first century take on greater significance. We definitely do not want to ‘miss the purpose’ of Jehovah’s undeserved kindness and lose out on the promise of everlasting life, be that in heaven or on earth. (2 Cor. 6:1) If ever someone attending our congregation meetings would try to entice us into discussions of personal speculations or critical conversations, we should definitely be on guard." w13 12/15 p. 9

http://web.archive.org/web/19990129063340/http://www.dhcommhr.coe.fr/eng/28626CP.E.html
Press communiqué issued by the Secretary
to the European Commission of Human Rights
Application No. 28626/95
Khristiansko Sdruzhenie "Svideteli na Iehova"
(Christian Association Jehovah's Witnesses)
v.
Bulgaria
Quote:
As regards the alleged involvement of children the applicant association submits that children cannot become members of the association but only participate, together with their parents, in the religious activities of the community. In respect of the refusal of blood transfusion, the applicant association submits that there are no religious sanctions for a Jehovah's Witness who chooses to accept blood transfusion and that, therefore, the fact that the religious doctrine of Jehovah's Witnesses is against blood transfusion cannot amount to a threat to "public health".

I remember the second instance you mentioned, and vaguely the first.  Would you please cite your references ro remind me, and of course "the fourth wall"?
It's always helpful to PROVE assertions that most Jehovah's Witnesses are unaware of, or you lose all credibility.
If memory serves, they lied to some European Government about forbidding blood transfusions, but I don't remember the details. If memory serves, they told that government that there were no congregational sanctions if a JW willfully accepted a blood transfusion.
Of course the lie about the shunning is on video to the Australian Royal Commission on Child Abuse Case No. 29 and 54, which is still on-line.
My mind is like a steel trap, but after 73 years, it's rusty, and  full of old fur and fat.

You talking about WT Society and "higher education" ? Because i spoke about "higher education" as something that GB see as not good for members. GB consider such plase as "brood" of fornication and demonic influence. But people where ever they  go will be faced with bad things ….even in JW congregations.
“The educational system varies from country to country. In the United States, for example, public schools offer 12 years of basic education. Thereafter, students may choose to attend university or college for four or more years, leading to a bachelor’s degree or to postgraduate studies for careers in medicine, law, engineering, and so forth. Such university education is what is meant when the term “higher education” is used in this article. On the other hand, there are technical and vocational schools, offering short-term courses that result in a certificate or diploma in some trade or service.” Watchtower 2005 Oct 1 p.27
The educational system in many countries teaches students not only practical skills but also human philosophy. Students are encouraged to question the existence of God and to disregard the Bible. …. Some Christians who have pursued university education have had their minds molded by human thinking rather than by God’s thinking. .... A sister who has been in full-time service for over 15 years says: “As a baptized Witness, I had read and heard about the dangers of pursuing university education ............ What effect did higher education have on this sister’s thinking? She answers: “I am ashamed to admit that the education I pursued taught me to be critical of others, especially my brothers and sisters, to expect too much of them, and to isolate myself from them -   Watchtower 2019 Jun pp.6-7
….and so forth
 

To clarify, each person in our household left the organization for different reasons.  Can a disfellowshipped person influence another to lose their “faith” in the organization?  Yes; however, my spiritual decisions for leaving are not at all the same reasons why the other three left. And, I was not the first to leave.  Each one of us, saw specific flaws in a belief system that caused us to doubt God’s involvement in…hypocrisy, rules applied by men that went against sound reasoning, rules established according to men’s doctrine and not according to scripture. The result is, two in the house have no more belief in God or Christ.  One has retained a belief, but struggles in making it a central part of life. 
The organization’s record of unsound and failed/changed teachings, and failures in shepherding, are generally what bring forth doubt and lack of faith in God and Christ. Each one of these listed, causes spiritual ‘infection’.  To think JWs are immune to this, is fallacy. 
My husband had a CT scan a while back.  This was to be beneficial in finding the reason he was sick, by locating and identifying the disease.  Yet, the requirement of an iodine contrast which is used to enhance the scan’s ability to detect abnormalities, resulted in severe reactions.  The fluid flushed through his veins caused side effects that are still with him two months later. The CT scan had its advantages in targeting the disease, but the harsh reactions he experienced also left its visible mark, since his entire body is covered in large rashes – a form a dermatitis that doctors say needs to be fought with more drugs. We have chosen an alternative route to treat it, using natural remedies.
Who would have thought that something routinely prescribed as providing beneficial results, would also produce such harm?  Because the WT has targeted and explained a handful of false teachings in religions, the majority of JWs adopt the belief that all WT’s teachings must be fully beneficial, aiding one to recover from say, “christendom’s” lies.    Since we know a lie is a lie, and wrong teachings remain wrong teachings, and the organization has had its large share in wrong teachings (lies), a JW’s faith is not immune to experiencing spiritual infection from a bad dose of wrong information (rotten fruit/poisoned waters), accompanying a known truth.  God’s word does not condone building our faith on a little truth and a lot of lies.  (Matt 12:33,34; Luke 6:43-45)  Can you imagine Jesus saying to his apostles, “Oh, go ahead and partake of the leaven of the Pharisees…because they will still produce some truth”? (Matt 16:6,12;7:20; Luke 6:47-49)  For the most part, JWs will not notice how they are spiritually infused with paltry waters/teachings that had no advantage in beneficially aiding the growth of one’s faith; unless one  is putting faith and trust in an organization.  In that case, there is always a promise of good things that men will produce, and which places a bandaid over the 'infection' resulting from bad teachings.  (Jer 6:14; Ezek 13:10)  
Jesus spoke of “living waters” that would be evident in those anointed whom he sends.   No side effects, no ‘infections’, but only teachings that build upon teachings, and all are truth. (Matt 10:40,41; John 15:16)   
 
“On the last and most important day of the festival, Jesus was standing in the temple courtyard. He said loudly, “Whoever is thirsty must come to me to drink. 38 As Scripture says, ‘Streams of living water will flow from deep within the person who believes in me.’” 39 Jesus said this about the Spirit, whom his believers would receive.”  John 7:37-39a 
 Many in the organization are becoming alert and keenly aware of painful results from the absolute “bitter” waters they have been ingesting and seek other means to remedy the resulting effects.  In my household there are four examples of how one leaves the WT and pursues relief from spiritual “infection”.  Not all of them are on a right path; but neither are those tolerating contaminated waters in the WT.  (Jer 23:14-22)  If the GB truly adhered themselves to the teachings of Christ, as they say they do, they would undoubtedly, and continually, produce “living waters” -  pure, and trustworthy. (John 4:14; 6:63; 2 Cor 4:7; 1 Cor 3:16; Eph 2:21,22; Rev 22:17) If excuses are made for their falsehoods, then there is total disregard for the promise Jesus gave us, that he would provide reliable Truth in those whom he sends. (Matt 21:33-45)  There would be no need for a persuasive ‘lecture’ about whom we should trust, as Gerrit Losch felt necessary to convey. John 15:5
 “Pursue peace with all people, and holiness, without which no one will see the Lord: 15 looking carefully lest anyone fall short of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up cause trouble, and by this many become defiled”  Heb 12:14-15
“Bitterness” - acridity (especially poison), literally or figuratively:—bitterness.
“Defiled” -   contaminate 
The root of the “trouble” and divisions caused among disgruntled members who leave the WT, falls on the shoulders of the GB, and the elder body that dispenses the GB's “waters”.  (Rom 16:17;Jude 1:17-19; Rev 8:10,11; 13:11,12,16,17; 17:15)  If we continue to apathetically believe we can spiritually thrive on WT’s infected waters, then our spiritual outcome falls on our shoulders.  (Heb 4:12; Rev 18:4-8)
 
 
 Of interest - " Locust - Scorpions " / " Abaddon " / " fallen star " / " Wormwood "
Pearl Doxsey,  4womaninthewilderness blogspot
 
 
 

@TrueTomHarley  I think it would be very difficult, impossible in fact, to be an honest whistle blower and stay inside JW Org.  If a person wishes to be totally honest in giving warning / making others aware of serious problems in the Org, then they would need to use their real name. Once the elders of his/her congregation became aware of what he/she was doing, then disfellowshippping would closely follow. Once a person becomes disfellowshipped their input is discredited by many. The only way to truly whistle blow about JW Org would be to leave the Org first, giving valid reasons for doing so. 
It is remarkable however that you @TrueTomHarley turn whistle blowers into apostates with just a flick of your fingers on your keyboard. I care not that you've put it in inverted commas, the accusation is still there. 
Who knows, if enough of these whistle blowers got together, they could form another 'religion'. After all didn't Rutherford  & Co come from former religions and then build a new one ? These whistle blowers could simply carry over the good and discard the bad points of JW Org.   Come to think of it, Jesus' disciples did much the same. Carry over the good points from the Mosaic Law and discard the bits no longer needed, thereby forming the new way of serving God properly.  And they would have been seen as 'mentally ill' by the Jews. 

Wow, Having missed only two hours on here, I am now 3 pages behind. Makes it rather difficult to keep up and even more so when the subject changes so much on each topic. 
I do think there is a vast difference in what the 'early Christians' said and did as opposed to what the J W Org / GB say and do now.  Someone mentioned about  'those not with us now that were formerly with us', as part of a scripture (you see i do find it difficult to relate to it all ) . But the scripture was concerning those 'early Christians' which were inspired of God and of the Anointed. They would have known 'pure' truth from the Hebrew scriptures, and also have been guided directly by God through Christ and through Holy Spirit. 
How can anyone relate that to a Governing Body that admit that they are not inspired of God ? How can you relate that to an Organisation that is so big, that the Governing Body is totally out of touch with it ?  A Governing Body that admit that they do wrong (err), as well as make mistakes.  
Having followed this 'blog' for a long time, I've seen / read, many here that have given proof of 'mistakes' / wrong doing by the Governing Body, the Writing Department, Elders et al.  So how can a person compare a scripture which relates to the pure worship of God through Christ, of those first century Christians. It makes no sense. In the time of the disciples/ apostles, true worship was direct, because the 'group of people' involved was small. The Greek scriptures were written directly by those actually hands on, doing daily work, and having direct guidance. What can we say now ? No one is inspired by God. No one is pure. The Governing Body give themselves the tittle of F & D S, but it proves nothing, because they get so much wrong.  We've also seen by written examples here on this blog , that the elders do not show the love and care for the 'flock'. 
I do however like the idea of the 'Apostasy spectrum' because the word apostate is banded about by those in the J W org just as an excuse not to talk to or mix with someone, even if said J W knows nothing about the reason someone is no longer attending meetings or has left the Org. 
I would talk personally with Arauna when she says, a person can only be an apostate to the truth. My answer is, But truth changes week by week in J W Org. 
Mr Rook, I thought the Charity Commission here in the UK were thinking of stopping the 'allowances' too, but it hasn't happened yet. 
 

Norway is the great catalyst that will force the GB to start thinking about basic human rights, as currently there is a lot of discussion in the Norwegian Government about " ... Why are we giving the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society Norwegian dollars (Kroners) every year from Tax money for their charities ... for EACH and every of the approximately 112,000 JWs in Norway (paraphrased), when they prohibit their members to vote"... which THEY consider to be an inalienable, and non-negotiable human right of all peoples, everywhere.
The WTB&TS is currently being governed by the Lawyers, Accountants, and the Finances department, with the GB not admitting being personally responsible for ANYTHING.
What we consider "reasonable", they consider EXTREMIST, and many European nations give tax money to ALL legitimate churches, without restriction on how they spend it.
By violating what these governments' and peoples' basic understanding on what constitutes extremism, soon, if not already, it is going to affect the flow of cash into the Society's Treasury.
One of several major concerns of the Governing Body is to not hemorrhage money, as it has been doing for years in the constant Child Sexual Abuse court cases.
THIS is what will drive any change .... not love ... not justice ...not fairness .... MONEY!
By the way .... has the Society recently decided that voting is a matter of personal conscience?
What I have read is so "weasel worded", I cannot tell.
 
 

You talking about WT Society and "higher education" ? Because i spoke about "higher education" as something that GB see as not good for members. GB consider such plase as "brood" of fornication and demonic influence. But people where ever they  go will be faced with bad things ….even in JW congregations.
“The educational system varies from country to country. In the United States, for example, public schools offer 12 years of basic education. Thereafter, students may choose to attend university or college for four or more years, leading to a bachelor’s degree or to postgraduate studies for careers in medicine, law, engineering, and so forth. Such university education is what is meant when the term “higher education” is used in this article. On the other hand, there are technical and vocational schools, offering short-term courses that result in a certificate or diploma in some trade or service.” Watchtower 2005 Oct 1 p.27
The educational system in many countries teaches students not only practical skills but also human philosophy. Students are encouraged to question the existence of God and to disregard the Bible. …. Some Christians who have pursued university education have had their minds molded by human thinking rather than by God’s thinking. .... A sister who has been in full-time service for over 15 years says: “As a baptized Witness, I had read and heard about the dangers of pursuing university education ............ What effect did higher education have on this sister’s thinking? She answers: “I am ashamed to admit that the education I pursued taught me to be critical of others, especially my brothers and sisters, to expect too much of them, and to isolate myself from them -   Watchtower 2019 Jun pp.6-7
….and so forth
 

Last week i experienced, in interval of few minutes, how two elders from another congregation respond on my look at them, accros the street, and giving greting with smile. Younger, son of older brother, returned with a smile. Few minutes later, two sisters standing with box and looked at woman with dog. I was walking beside them, again with happy face with looking on sister from my ex congregation, She returned with a smile on her face. …..Or maybe that was because of playing with dog :)))) 

I think Srecko was referring to a higher school to learn a trade.  Yet, they have also greatly encouraged young ones (men and women) just graduating from high school to become pioneers, which would not allow much time to attend a trade school.  

What a blatant lie.   They have always encouraged men to do a trade.  With the tons of generic degrees now being pumped out at universities that are mainly producing useless degrees and students with life-long debt - it seems they were right all along.
Germany has a strong economy due to such a large portion of its population having technical trade qualifications.  

Going back to original topic here. The man should not have 'put all his eggs in one basket' it seems.. 
It is sad that his business suffered though (if true) as his being shunned might have been 'punishment' enough.
I would have thought he would have had legal contracts for his business which would mean that customers would be under legal contract to continue business as usual. It does show the lack of love from JW's though, if they deliberately caused problems to his business. 

I acknowledge how i don't know what they know and think.
But what i know in general, is that Christendom talking about going to Paradise after death and having wonderful life there, i didn't hear they expected to be Kings and Priests  :)))

I acknowledge how i don't know what they know and think.
But what i know in general, is that Christendom talking about going to Paradise after death and having wonderful life there, i didn't hear they expected to be Kings and Priests  :)))