Matthew9969

Jehovah's Witnesses in Russia are working with Scientology, the Unification Church, Mormons and others in a joint political effort to lobby the Russian Duma (similar to the US Congress) for certain issues. The name of this joint political lobby in Russua is: Public Committee for the Defense of Freedom of Conscience." Compared with the cults, we had few resources; we were very small and our funding was nil. Their strength was multi plied, because many of them arrived at a sort of mutual understanding, and an exchange of strategic information began among Scientology, ISKCON, the Unifi cation Church, "The Family" (formerly Children of God ), and lately the Jehovah's Witnesses - and this does not include several smaller sects. Their cooperation quickly became obvious when the first negative reports appeared about cults in the Russian media. In response, editors began to receive virtually identical letters of protest with packages of documents from all of the above mentioned groups. http://www.theonet.dk/spirituality/spirit98-11/dvorkin.html Mr. Yakunin, a former priest under the Moscow Patriarchate, was defrocked in 1994 for grossly violating the canons of the Church. When he was not re-elected to the Duma in 1996, he founded a private nonprofit organization known as the "Public Committee for the Defense of Freedom of Conscience." The Committee immediately went about seeking donations from various destructive cults, including the Jehovah's Witnesses, Unification Church, and Scientology. http://www.theonet.dk/spirituality/spirit98-11/dvorkin.html Later some 30 Scientologists and ISKCON members joined the lawsuit with charges of their own. When it became clear that the Church supported my case and that the implications for their public relations efforts were not good (Russian public opinion remembers very well when the Church was placed in the dock in the Communist show trials), some of the Scientologists and ISKCON members dropped their charges against me. However, some statements still remained. Scientology, ISKCON, the Unification Church, Jehovah's Witnesses, "The Family," and other cults took a very active role in the court proceedings: they always were present, providing translations, materials, interpreters, legal advice, witnesses, video and audio recording, etc. http://www.theonet.dk/spirituality/spirit98-11/dvorkin.html ... in the lawsuit. Interestingly, none of the groups mentioned in the booklet gave the Com mittee the power of attorney to act on its behal f : The Committee's top executives, Lev Levinson and Mikhail Osadchev, said that they represented an "indef in ite num ber of people - members of new religious movements ." When they were told that there are no "indefinite number of people" in court, they then announced that they were acting on behalf of all religious orga nizations mentioned in Dvorkin 's booklet (with the exception of Aum Shinrikyo, the White Brotherhood, Peoples Temple, and Branch Davidians), namely: ISKCON, the Scientology organization, the Unification Church, the Mother of God Center, the International Churches of Christ, The Family, the Church of the Last Testament, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latterday Saints (Mormons ), and the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society (Jehovah 's Wit nesses) - a ll of which were offended by the booklet and wi ll file their own charges. This bizarre move immediately gave the process quite a grotesque twist. http://www.theonet.dk/spirituality/spirit98-11/dvorkin.html Eventua ll y only Eileen Barker and James Richardson came. Massimo Intro vigne and Gordon Melton sent written statements. Numerous witnesses took the stand - more than 2 0 o n behalf of the plaintiffs and over 25 for the defendants. From the plaintiffs' side came witnesses who were members of the fo ll owing cults: ISKCON, Scientology, the Unification Church, and Jehovah's Witnesses. Also, members of ISKCON and the Unification Church's pet parents' committees, plus Russian and foreign experts, gave evidence. It is noteworthy that all of the experts, including Barker and Richardso n , were asked the fo ll owing question by the de fendants' attorneys: "Can a person be a member of all of the above-mentioned cults at the same time?" Both scholars were warned that their answers would be pub lished o n the Internet, and each tried to avoid giving a direct answer. When pressed, both answered with a f ir m "Yes" - a rather unusual response from persons claiming to be experts in the field of NRMs. http://www.theonet.dk/spirituality/spirit98-11/dvorkin.html Their mutual cooperation was clear on September 19 when all of them together picketed the Duma, protesting the passage of the law. http://www.theonet.dk/spirituality/spirit98-11/dvorkin.html The whole paper is worth reading ... but demonstrates that the Jehovah's Witnesses aka Watchtower Society is working together with other religious organizations, such as the Mormons, Moonies, Scientology, etc. to lobby the Duma in a political cooperative joint effort ... My Question: How can the Watchtower Society claim neutrality and separation from Babylon the Great, while at the same time working together with them in political lobby for mutual interests, and working together in lawsuits as co-defendants? What gives here? - Jim W. ADDITIONAL RESOURCES: These show the "Public Committee for the Defense of Freedom of Conscience." involved in various political actions outside the efforts at religious freedom ... such as jointly going against the Russian Federation on the war in Chechnya. While some of the causes are noble, it still shows that by being part of this organization, the Watchtower Society is bringing its policy of neutrality into question: 1. http://archive.tol.cz/transitions/jan99/itowreli.html2. http://balkansnet.org/wib/stats/chechnya.html3. http://prcenter.newmail.ru/news2000/22_feb__report_on_antisemetism_in_russia.htm4. http://www.religiousfreedom.com/links/rf.htm5. http://www.nybooks.com/articles/14747 (New York Review) 6. http://www.religioustolerance.org/rt_russi1.htm7. Deleted - cited in error 8. http://www.rickross.com/reference/rs/rs28.html (USA accused of using sects in Russia) 9. http://www.xenu.net/archive/events/russia/sir.html (Scientology involvement) 10. http://www.minelres.lv/ngo/russia.htm (NGO's in Russia) 11. http://puckish.arrr.net/articles/consequences.html (Terrorism issues and the Public Committee ...) 12. http://www.jw-media.org/region/europe/russia/english/moscow/e_com980930.htm (liquidation of Jehovah's Witnesses in Russia) 13. http://www.tparents.org/Library/Unification/Talks/Krylova/Krylova-CARP.htm (Unificaton Church / Moonies in Russia) 14. http://www.factnet.org/Scientology/sciroc.htm?FACTNet (Lawsuit against Russia Orthodoxy) 15. http://www.bcis.gov/text/services/asylum/ric/documentation/Belarus.htm (US Foreign Sec. re: former Soviet Union and the JWs.) 16. http://www.wcc-coe.org/wcc/what/interreligious/cd31-02.html (Comments by the World Council of Churches)

Natural, God given conscience   vs.    Artificial, "bible based conscience" imposed by WT interpretations and rules   simple answer.

I know I'm late in this thread, but I disassociated myself, some jw's shunned me and some didn't. I know some disgellowshiped ones who still had a relationship with their jw family.
But I ask, how do elders punish someone if they are not jw's?

One cannot claim that the organization doesn't coerce people into remaining members when the are literally being blackmailed with the threat of family estrangement if they leave.
To add context this is the elders letter instructing them to disfellowshipped someone who has apostate beliefs.  Mind you this says nothing as to whether or not they are promoting their beliefs just that they have believed that differ from what this aside he says they need to accept.
however even if they were what's wrong with that? Don't JWs apostasize from their religious all the time? Why is it ok for  individuals to leave their respective religions, join the WT organization,  and speak out against their former religion but if someone who was previously a witness did this very thing then they deserve to be punished?

Gotta feel sorry for those who feel they have to have a relationship with a book publishing company in order to have a relationship with God.

Anybody can give out free bibles and teach others to read.

I am curious, why the need to keep a strict chronological timeline of the doctrinal changes of the watchtower? Since the Governing body is the faithful and discreet slave, and Gods mouthpiece, is their spiritual ear hard of hearing, or is Jehovah changing doctrine?

@Israeli Bar Avaddhon
Sir, I have put your quotes in green:
My question is: to go where?
Sir, we go to the one who has the sayings of eternal life, which Srecko highlighted with scripture.   It is the Son of God. It isn’t the Watchtower, since the leaders admit to not being inspired and haven’t been since the beginning.  Rev 2:2,9; Rev 3:8-13
Can you see that the disciples followed only Jesus?
“But Simon Peter answered Him, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life.  Also we have come to believe and know that You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.”  John 6:68,69
Should we go to religions who have taught abominations like the hell of fire, the trinity, the mother of God, innate immortality of the human soul, predestination, limbo, purgatory, and so on?
“Do not love the world or anything in the world. If anyone loves the world, love for the Father is not in them. For everything in the world—the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life—comes not from the Father but from the world.” 1 John 2:15,16  That includes the Watchtower. 
Any Watchtower errors do not make false religion a little bit more truth.
Jesus answered and said to her, “If you knew the gift of God, and who it is who says to you, ‘Give Me a drink,’ you would have asked Him, and He would have given you living water.”
 “Jesus said to her, “Woman, believe Me, the hour is coming when you will neither on this (literal) mountain, nor in Jerusalem, worship the Father.”
“But the hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for the Father is seeking such to worship Him.  God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth.”  John 4:10,21,23,24
I would be very careful before saying "leave this religion".
“And I heard another voice from heaven saying, “Come out of her, my people, lest you share in her sins, and lest you receive of her plagues.  For her sins have reached to heaven, and God has remembered her iniquities.  Render to her just as she rendered to you, and repay her double according to her works; in the cup which she has mixed, mix double for her.  In the measure that she glorified herself and lived luxuriously, in the same measure give her torment and sorrow; for she says in her heart, ‘I sit as queen, and am no widow, and will not see sorrow.’  Therefore her plagues will come in one day—death and mourning and famine. And she will be utterly burned with fire, for strong is the Lord God who judges her.”
This cannot refer to Christendom, because as you say, God’s people are being disciplined.  This refers to the Watchtower, where God’s anointed ones are “camped”.  Rev 20:9
 “Flee from the midst of Babylon,
And every one save his life!
Do not be cut off in her iniquity,
For this is the time of the Lord’s vengeance;
He shall recompense her.
 Babylon was a golden cup in the Lord’s hand,
That made all the earth drunk.
The nations drank her wine;
Therefore the nations are deranged.”
The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders,  and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved.  And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
Jesus answered, “My kingdom is not of this world. If My kingdom were of this world, My servants would fight, so that I should not be delivered to the Jews; but now My kingdom is not from here.” Yet, the Watchtower promotes itself as Zion.
 Pilate therefore said to Him, “Are You a king then?”
Jesus answered, “You say rightly that I am a king. For this cause I was born, and for this cause I have come into the world, that I should bear witness to the truth. Everyone who is of the truth hears My voice.”
38 Pilate said to Him, “What is truth?” John 18:36-38a
Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.”  John 14:6
Is Jesus making an exception to this rule for an organization fabricated through the use of worldly tools and situated in, Satan’s world?  Think about it.  God and Christ are pure, while the organization is filthy rich, and run as other corporate entities are, in Satan’s world.  Why would Jesus use Satan’s resources, who literally wants to kill off all Christ’s anointed brothers (Gen 3:15) and condone anything in this system?  The Watchtower consistently teaches you to be ‘no part of the word’ yet they are so mired down in its dung, JWs see only the icing on the; well,....  It is blasphemy for an organization so full of false prophesy, false security, sin against victims of child abuse,, lawsuits,  and disfellowshipped individuals who desire to follow the truth in Christ – to call itself “the truth” and “Zion”.   
It is the delusion of 2 Thess 2:9-12 and the ‘spirit-breathed’ Beast of Revelation.  (spirit-directed organization)
“Then I stood on the sand of the sea. And I saw a beast rising up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and on his horns ten crowns, and on his heads a blasphemous name.”  Rev 13:1
Read further and see how this Beast comes against God’s Temple/anointed ones; (1 Cor 3:16,17) accompanied by a false prophet who authorizes the “trampling”.  Matt 24:15; Rev 11:1-3
During the discipline of Jehovah many "fake brothers" will no longer exist. Probably there will not be anyone who has idolized men above the Word of God.  We can not know how many will be, how many will remain.
The faithful to God and Christ are found “outside the camp”, despised as “garbage”, persecuted by their own brethren for following the one Master, Jesus Christ. Matt 6:24; John 15:6; Heb 13:12-15; 1 Cor 4:13; Matt 5:11; 24:48-51
“Woe to those who decree unrighteous decrees,
Who write misfortune,
Which they have prescribed
2 To rob the needy of justice,
And to take what is right from the poor of My people,
That widows may be their prey,
And that they may rob the fatherless.
3 What will you do in the day of punishment,
And in the desolation which will come from afar?
To whom will you flee for help?
And where will you leave your glory?
4 Without Me they shall bow down among the prisoners,
And they shall fall among the slain.”
For all this His anger is not turned away,
But His hand is stretched out still.
Therefore it shall come to pass, when the Lord has performed all His work on Mount Zion and on Jerusalem, that He will say, “I will punish the fruit of the arrogant heart of the king of Assyria, and the glory of his haughty looks.” 
Then the rest of the trees of his forest
Will be so few in number
That a child may write them.”  Isa 10:1-4, 12, 19
A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.  Therefore by their fruits you will know them.  Matt 7:18,20
Please, do not perceive the large print as “yelling”, but to help connect the importance of Christ’s words – although it is a trumpet call to leave the crumbling wall of lies behind. Rev 11:2,3   Ezek chapter 13 is having its second fulfillment. 
 
 
 
 
 
 

The idea that 1975 would witness the end of the world was first introduced in 1966.

IT'S AMAZING HOW YOU CAN TAKE THE WORDS "6,000 YEARS OF MANS EXISTENCE WILL END" AND MAKING IT END IN 1975 AND CONCLUDE THAT IT REALLY DIDN'T SAY THAT AT ALL.

Good point.
Watchtower’s governing body member, Anthony Morris, stated just recently that the “theocratic organization” receives its decisions or “decrees” from God.  (JW broadcasting)
He comments, “When that direction comes out to Branch committee members, or when it comes out to the congregations; If you want Jehovah’s blessing on you as an individual or family, certainly as an elder or congregation, it’d be best to ask Jehovah to help you understand it, but OBEY THE DECISION.
JWs are being told that whether they understand Watchtower’s decrees or not, they must be obeyed.  Jesus tells us how we are to discern what a true teaching is.  Matt 7:15-20; Luke 6:43-45 
He continues, “This is a theocracy ruled by God, not a collection of man made decisions.  This is governed from heaven.”
This is utterly impossible, since the Governing Body admitted to not being inspired.  (Wt. 2017/2 pp. 20-26, par. 12)  
Anthony Morris commented, “the decisions that are made by the faithful slave today, are made collectively.  Not one man is making these decisions, these decisions are made collectively”.
Do JWs see the conundrum?  Firstly, he says they are not a collection of man made decisions. Then says, the decisions are made collectively.  Honestly; these are your leaders, JWs, who are speaking out of both sides of the mouth! 
“Now if any of you lacks wisdom, he should ask God—who gives to all generously and ungrudgingly—and it will be given to him.  But let him ask in faith without doubting. For the doubter is like the surging sea, driven and tossed by the wind. 7 That person should not expect to receive anything from the Lord,  being double-minded and unstable in all his ways.“  James 1:5-8
 Uninspired men are proclaiming they are the channel used by God who governs the organization from heaven; and yet, it is through Holy Spirit that God would grant the understanding of His will. John 14:15-17   Is there another “channel” aside from Holy Spirit? Yes, there is. 
“For if a person comes and preaches another Jesus, whom we did not preach, or you receive a different spirit, which you had not received, or a different gospel, which you had not accepted, you put up with it splendidly!”  2 Cor 11:4
“A good person produces good out of the good stored up in his heart. An evil person produces evil out of the evil stored up in his heart, for his mouth speaks from the overflow of the heart.”  Luke 6:45
“Inspiration” means inhalation; a drawing in of breath.  The antonym is “exhalation” – the breath that leaves via the mouth.  Since the GB admit to not receiving Holy Spirit – “inspiration”, their gospel is sourced in another spirit. Only one type of “inspiration” can fill the heart – and overflow it.   
God’s true messengers/witnesses receive inspiration from Holy Spirit. It is what teaches faithful anointed ones. 1 John 2:20,27; John 14:26  There is no inter-mediator; no consulting in an interior room, behind closed doors, or voting on a “decree”. John 16:12-14; Matt 10:20; Luke 12:12; Matt 24:23-27   
These uninspired men must rely on each other to pass their decrees, which all JWs must obey, even if  their decrees are later considered an 'err in direction'.
“If you died with Christ to the elements of this world, why do you live as if you still belonged to the world? Why do you submit to regulations:  “Don’t handle, don’t taste, don’t touch”?  All these regulations refer to what is destined to perish by being used up; they are human commands and doctrines.  Although these have a reputation for wisdom by promoting self-made religion, false humility, and severe treatment of the body, they are not of any value in curbing self-indulgence.”  Col 2:20-23
“Now God has revealed these things to us by the Spirit, since the Spirit searches everything, even the depths of God.  For who knows a person’s thoughts except his spirit within him? In the same way, no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God. 
Now we have not received the spirit of the world, but the spirit who comes from God, so that we may understand what has been freely given to us by God. 
 We also speak these things, not in words taught by human wisdom, but in those taught by the Spirit, explaining spiritual things to spiritual people.
But the person without the Spirit (the uninspired governing body) does not receive what comes from the God’s Spirit, because it is foolishness to him; he is not able to understand it since it is evaluated spiritually.
The spiritual person, (one individual) however, can evaluate everything, and yet he himself cannot be evaluated by anyone. 1 Cor 2:10-15
Following and obeying men and their teachings who pass decrees devoid of Holy Spirit, yet hypocritically say they have their source in God, are hiding the true source of the spirit that guides them.  John 8:44
By accepting these hypocritical teachings, the hearer is also receiving a “different spirit”.  Yet, JWs put up with it – “splendidly”.  2 Cor 11:4
Why?
1 Pet 3:10; 3 John 11
 

Doesn't the watchtower teach that Jehovah finally gave up on the nation and replaced it with a spiritual nation of Israelites which consist of only the anointed 144,000 when Jesus wept upon entering Jerusalem?

Yes, the watchtower has had to make a way to make baptism a legally binding contract between the baptisee and the watchtower bible and tract society. The jehovahs witness baptism is simple idolatry at it's deceptive best.

Not sure what you found so offensive. So on this note, could you as a moderator please tell jw's here to back up erroneous claims especially when they are the ones saying something condemning ex jw's. thank you

Not sure what you found so offensive. So on this note, could you as a moderator please tell jw's here to back up erroneous claims especially when they are the ones saying something condemning ex jw's. thank you

So no jehovahs witness here is willing to provide a study that says apostates are 3 times more likely to have a mental illness, or along those lines. Again jw's support this claim, but are too cowardly to back it up with facts, just a video from a professor that even himself admits, all the data he has is old, unreliable, biased and not trustworthy. 
Thank you jw's for showing even further your true colors.

So no jehovahs witness here is willing to provide a study that says apostates are 3 times more likely to have a mental illness, or along those lines. Again jw's support this claim, but are too cowardly to back it up with facts, just a video from a professor that even himself admits, all the data he has is old, unreliable, biased and not trustworthy. 
Thank you jw's for showing even further your true colors.

Some jw's don't mind their governing body talking down about them. Not a very christian attitude the governing body has towards their congregants.

From that article it would seem the governing body already knows most of their congregants have mental issue's.

Some jw's don't mind their governing body talking down about them. Not a very christian attitude the governing body has towards their congregants.

From that article it would seem the governing body already knows most of their congregants have mental issue's.

From that article it would seem the governing body already knows most of their congregants have mental issue's.

Yes, the watchtower has had to make a way to make baptism a legally binding contract between the baptisee and the watchtower bible and tract society. The jehovahs witness baptism is simple idolatry at it's deceptive best.

Yet, that is what the Watchtower has enforced, when it reminds individuals:
"Have you dedicated your life to Jehovah and symbolized your dedication by baptism in water? If you have, that is wonderful! Do you remember when the brother giving the baptism talk asked whether you had dedicated yourself to Jehovah and understood that “your dedication and baptism identify you as one of Jehovah’s Witnesses”?  Wt 4/2017
And what the most recent second baptism question requires:
Do you understand that your dedication and baptism identify you as one of Jehovah's Witnesses in association with God's spirit-directed organization? Having answered yes to these questions, candidates are in a right heart condition to undergo Christian baptism."
The questions you answered to publicly are found in the Wt 1944, 2/1 p. 44
Thank new light for the condensing down and filtering out the important elements of the two questions asked of you, to:
"On the basis of the sacrifice of Jesus Christ, have you repented of your sins and dedicated yourself to Jehovah to do his will?"
 

When my wife applied to regular pioneer, she was unprepared for the question about objectionable - or is it unsuitable for a Christian? - music. Never one to blow things away, she answered that she does listen to it sometimes. "Well," she explained later to some elders, "if the Beach Boys come on and sing 'Wouldn't it be nice to live together,' I do not turn off the radio. This appeared to satisfy them. "We've never had someone answer this way," they said, looking befuddled.
On the night that her appointment was announced, I approached those elders. "You're making a big mistake! How can you allow her privileges?! She does nothing but listen to rap all day and heavy metal all night! I expected you brothers to straighten her out!"