Israeli Bar Avaddhon

A name. A mistery.  Babylon the Great.       QUESTIONS TO TELL IF THE BABYLON THE GREAT IT'S A NATION   In the Bible there are hundreds of references to the destruction of Babylon and Israel unfaithful . They are also parallels between Israel and many hundreds of Babylon (Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel ...). Being accustomed to make parallels with Christianity and the world empire of false religion, every time we read "Israel will be destroyed!" we read, in fact, "Christianity will be destroyed!" and every time we read "Babylon will be destroyed!" we read "The world empire of false religion will be destroyed." Now the question is ... "If in a specific step the Bible meant that Israel would be destroyed its meaning Israel ... what we would find it written?" Obviously we would find written "Israel will be destroyed!" In the end it comes to understanding if, whenever we speak of the destruction of Babylon and / or Israel after the day of the Lord , there is at least a chance that you are referring to Israel, that modern Israel is a literal nation. What is the biggest counterfeit of God's people today? Christianity and the modern nation of Israel? Before 1948 this hypothesis, and these questions would have been meaningless. Any assumptions would have ruled out simply because Israel did not exist . Since May 1948, however, Israel exists and we must understand basically three things. 1) See if it is possible that Babylon the Great is a nation 2) If so, see if Israel corresponds to the description that makes the Bible 3) Compare with current understanding, and see which of the two parties, in the light of Scripture and not of desires or personal ideas , is more likely to be.   Question 1 Babylon the Great can be a nation?   Meanwhile, remember that Babylon the Great, throughout history, has been "identified" with many nations and for many different reasons. Imperial Rome, papal Rome, USA, UK, USSR etc. Many people and different religious groups gave different explanations but none of them has ever stood the test of fire , and that is the scrutiny of the Scriptures - I Thessalonians 5:21 What about us? One of the explanations in the publications of the Slave that Babylon the Great can not be a literal nation is the fact that "committing fornication with the kings of the earth". An intensifier of this statement would be the fact that both kings and merchants mourn its destruction. Finally it would be not a nation because they say it misleads the entire inhabited earth through her "spiritistic practice." That's it? Let's see. In Isaiah 23: 15-17 we speak of Tire as a "forgotten prostitute" and therefore, as such, " commits prostitution with all the kingdoms of the earth on the surface of the ground ." Tire was a nation, not a religion or a religious system - Romans 15.4 So a nation can be described in the Bible, in the act of committing prostitution with all the kingdoms of the world and remain a nation. Prostitution may have to do with trade or with acts of injustice and bloodshed , and not necessarily with religion. - Nahum 3: 1-4 In particular, the shooting of prostitution has nothing to do with false religion because if they were, Jehovah would not be considered "holy" his compensation - Isaiah 23:18 The "prostitution" may have to do simply with the alliance and trust in other nations, as reported many times in the Bible when Israel and Judah showed allying with infidels pagan nations. It is clear, therefore, that if this nation is likened to a prostitute loss of this harlot would cause pain to his lovers (the nations with which it has committed prostitution and merchants grew rich from it) just as ancient Israel "tried joy "for the shooting of prostitution gifts and not because shooting was a religion or the religion of Tire. A king can "mourn" the loss of a political ally (and therefore by the fall of a nation) and a large merchant may weep at the drop of a commercial ally (which can be large or small but definitely rich nation). So the reasons that "Babylon the Great" can not be a nation because kings and merchants mourning his passing are not valid. What, though, the strongest affirmation in reference to Babylon The Great namely that "through its practice spiritism have been led astray all the nations"? This statement in particular has led many to think that it was a religious empire (for many sects of Christianity Babylon the Great is Catholicism and even some Catholics is Vatican II). First, we must realize that all the empires of the past have resorted to spiritualist practices, and this is also true for empires modern so-called atheists. Pharaoh opposed to Moses his "practitioners of magic " and Nebuchadnezzar it was virtually surrounded - Exodus 7:11 - Daniel 2: 2 The same thing can be said of Assyria, Syria, Persia, Media etc. So if the Bible, talking about a literal nation, saying that "uses" or "practical magic divination", would not say anything exceptional. We also know, from the study of the Scriptures, that nations are governed by demons who are misleading the entire inhabited earth, and that during the wars are not only human beings involved - Daniel 10:13 We can assume that the demons have no or given special power to a nation, and this has, today, "a kingdom over the kings of the earth"? - Revelation 17:18 also see Luke 4: 5-7 Without forcing any interpretation, logic and Scripture does not allow us to rule "Babylon the Great" among nations.   Question 2 "Babylon the Great can be the literal and modern Israel?"   In Revelation 17: 1, 2 says that Babylon the Great "sits on many waters." We know that the waters mean "peoples and crowds and nations and languages" Israel "sits on many waters" as it is surrounded by many peoples and nations that bear the pain ( "sit on it" can also mean against the will of the neighboring peoples themselves). In Isaiah 8: 5-8 we speak of the powerful Assyrian army as a "devastating waters"; so not always the "waters" are a symbol of protection - Isaiah 8: 5-8 It was put there by force by the UN against the wishes of many neighboring countries. He sits also "on many waters" because his position is due to the nations that make up the United Nations (Babylon the Great sits also on the wild beast scarlet) which, besides having established where still, protect it militarily. The armies of Assyria are likened to "devastating waters," then we can say that also sit on many armies? - Revelation 17: 3, 16 It 'also worth noting that the nation of Israel is actually located in the "crossroads" of three continents: Europe, Africa, Asia. If I wanted to find a literal nation located on the "many waters" (ie peoples and nations and tribes and languages) both geographically and politically, no ' other nation would correspond better to the modern nation of Israel. The harlot riding a beast. In Revelation 17: 3 we read, "And the angel took me in the power of the spirit into a wilderness. And I saw a woman sitting on a scarlet-colored wild beast that was full of blasphemous names, having seven heads and ten horns." The nation of Israel is already in a desert and ride the wild beast scarlet color, as we know, the League or the company from the abyss rise Nations under the UN name Israel exists, behind the Anglo-American empire pushed through and by the United Nations since 1948. G them earlier historical events and following the creation of the state of Israel confirms that the Jewish people have ridden the wild beast in scarlet before returning to being a nation. Mother of all harlots. Revelation 17: 4-5: "And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet, and was adorned with gold and precious stone and pearls and had in her hand a golden cup full of disgusting things and the unclean things of her fornication. And on her forehead was a name written, a mystery: 'Babylon the Great, the mother of harlots and of the disgusting things of the earth' ". If we accept the possibility that a nation is likened to a prostitute (exactly like Tire), then the nation of Israel is the "mother of all harlots" because he committed fornication to a greater extent than any other nation in the world. How can we tell? If the harlot riding the wild beast scarlet, which, as we know, is the League of Nations, is supposed to have committed fornication with all the countries participating in the United Nations. Indeed, its very existence as a nation is due to his political lovers so, to continue to exist , must commit prostitution in excess and continuously. No 'other nation can compare with her as acts of prostitution because no' other nation has a strong need to please the United Nations to continue to exist. It 'also possible that in the Bible is described as a prostitute because it is not a real " queen" but a stretch . It is an empire cut on purpose to a prostitute. The woman is also "arrayed in purple and scarlet, and decked with gold and precious stone ..." then you simply dressed like a queen but the colors purple and scarlet are still the colors of luxury and royal power and this would strengthen the ' idea that you are talking of a kingdom, a literal nation. Likewise the beast that the harlot rides is scarlet and the beast, as we know, the League or the League of Nations (all UN members represent literal nations). The scarlet color is the wild beast that the harlot, is significant. Drunk blood of the saints. Writing goes on to say "And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of saints and witnesses of Jesus." Israel has enormous guilt of blood and Jesus referred to this very nation when he said, "In order to be on you all the righteous blood shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye between killing in the sanctuary and the altar "- Matthew 23:35 - Luke 11:50, 51 So Jesus himself identifies Israel, not another nation , as responsible for the payment of "all the righteous blood" (also compared the words of Stephen reported in Acts 7: 51-53). The book "Insight", under the heading "Babylon the Great", correctly points out that not all Christians were persecuted by the Pharisees and the Jews themselves have suffered, in turn, a great persecution. However, even Abel was killed by a Pharisee, and even by some religious minister. Besides the millions of deaths caused by the empire communist, atheist, they could hardly be held up to the false religion. We can assume that Jehovah and Jesus regard as particularly responsible for those who have "know God" and, despite this, they commit unspeakable crimes? In this perfectly fits the nation of Israel. - Hosea 8: 2 - Amos 3: 2 Condolences for the end of Babylon. Revelation 18: 9-14 says, "And the kings of the earth committed fornication with her and lived in unbridled luxury will weep and beat themselves in grief over her when they see the smoke of her burning, 10  and will stand at a distance for fear of her torment and say, 'Woe, doom, the great city, Babylon the strong city, because in one, now is it!' 11  "And the travelers merchants of the earth weep and mourn over her, for no one buys their full load, 12  full load of gold and silver and precious stone and pearls and fine linen and purple and silk and scarlet, and every citron wood and every sort of ivory object and every sort of object of most precious wood, and of brass and iron and marble, 13  and cinnamon and Indian spice and incense and perfumed oil and frankincense and wine and olive oil and fine flour and wheat and cattle and sheep and horses and carriages and slaves and human souls. 14  Yes, the fine fruit that your soul longed has departed from thee, and all things delicious and splendid things have perished from you, and you will find it " As we saw earlier, both kings of the earth and travelers traders suffer from the disappearance of their lover. Unlike any other nation, the destruction of Israel would bring despair and "misfortune" among leaders and among the traders all over the world. Why? Because the Jewish people is the owner of the world's largest banks, almost all the gold, oil, the largest global corporations and everything you can imagine. The major world powers (including the United States, USSR and China) have taken advantage of abundant loans to wage war with other nations and to build imposing and colossal structures (such as the Suez Canal). Simply do some 'research to find out which and how many ways the owners of the world's largest banks have been involved in almost all the wars of the last two centuries and probably much further back in time. The words of Revelation 18: 11-14 that talk about 'full load of gold and silver and precious stone and pearls and fine linen and purple and silk and scarlet, and all citron wood and every sort of ivory object and every sort of most precious wood, and of brass and iron and marble object, and cinnamon and Indian spice and incense and perfumed oil and frankincense and wine and olive oil and fine flour and wheat and cattle and sheep and horses and carriages and slaves and human souls' are significant. Imagining the global economic consequences for the collapse of 80% of all existing banks and thus the immediate and simultaneous failure of thousands of companies all over the world ... one might conclude that a crisis of this magnitude does not correspond at all the history of man - Matthew 24:21 Really the kings of the earth travelers and traders around the world would be right to beat their chests, to mourn and cry, "Woe!" "Come out of her, my people." Revelation 18: 4 says, "And I heard another voice from heaven saying, 'Come out of her, my people, if you do not want to share with her in her sins, and if you do not want to receive part of her plagues.'" If Babylon the Great is the modern nation of Israel, then it is easy to understand who is facing this urgent appeal: our dear brothers present in the nation of Israel who are also "a remnant to be saved." If you remain there, would receive part of her plagues as a result of the attack enraged the United Nations. This possibility is to be evaluated very seriously. This would mean, moreover, that the destruction of Jerusalem in 537 BCE and again in 70 CE would have a further and definitive fulfillment . The third (Revelation 4: 8; 8:13; 16:13, 19 - Ezekiel 21:14). The number two question asked: "The literal people of modern Israel, match the description that the Bible makes Babylon the Great ?" If like it or not what is written above , and it may be a "domino effect" on other interpretations, this is in keeping both with the secular history ch and with Scripture. The answer, then, is yes.   Question 3 Which of the two parties, in the light of Scripture and not of desires or personal ideas , you are more likely to be?   Honestly, all the description that the Bible makes Babylon the Great, corresponds closely to the false religion and so it is very difficult to understand if the Bible wants to tell a literal nation or false religion as a whole. The blatant immorality, extreme violence, the desire for domination, spiritual prostitution, the arrogance and presumption ... are all features world empire of false religion, as well as the current Israel. The clues, however, should be more than enough, when viewed without preconceptions, to understand the subject. Following listing of evidence and comparison subjects.   literal Nation of Israel (NLI)   world empire of false religion (IMFL)   NLI He sits on the scarlet beast (UN) The nation of Israel has been put there by the United Nations. There is thanks to the UN that has established and protects militarily. IMFL He sits on the scarlet beast (UN?) It should not ride the wild beast that ascends from the sea since the false religion has existed since Nimrod times?   NLI He sits on many waters (tribes, peoples, languages). The nations that make up the UN include many nations, tribes, peoples and languages. The waters are also "armies": the UN is a multiple military power. Israel is also at the crossroads of three continents. IMFL Side on many waters (tribes, peoples, languages). False religion has always been part of human history and included every people, tribe, nation and language. These waters have always been a protection for religion.   NLI Mother of all harlots / Fornication Israel commits fornication more than any other nation. To continue to exist should please the UN and all political and existing business partners. No other nation in the world is obliged to do this in his own measure because, other nations, existed before and may continue to exist even without UN backing. IMFL Mother of all harlots / Fornication Christianity claims to be "people of God" but it is adulterous because of his friendship with the world. Its practices are of Babylonian origin. He cheats on "husbandly owner," Jehovah. And 'prostitute. Besides Christianity, however, Babylon the great would include every religion that away from God (this includes all non-Christian religions including tribal). Why, then, it is seen as a prostitute? Jehovah has never considered the husbandly owner of nations like Egypt, Assyria and Persia Media?   NLI Luxury rampant The nation of Israel includes almost all bankers in the world. The largest corporations in the world. Posside gold and oil wells; restaurants, companies etc. It possesses weapons and world organizations of various kinds. The most expensive works of art in the world are owned by Jews. Their commercial power is simply beyond belief. IMFL Luxury rampant False religion, with some exceptions, has always adorned with precious things. Temples, churches, statues, shrines, paintings ... works of art without number and without value. It also reduced in poverty millions of people for a fee every "spiritual service". Even false religion living in the lap of luxury.   NLI Bane of the rulers The fall of Israel would lead the rulers shouting "evil" because they have always done business with them (the sale of weapons to every illicit trafficking). Including the Secret Service. The fall of a partner like that would throw many countries into a deep despair. IMFL Bane of the rulers The global fall of the empire of false religion would lead the rulers shouting doom because of his influence on the crowds but only in some parts of the world (ie Islam). In all Western nations you do not understand why they should shout "misfortune." Religion has always taken from the people and he never shared anything with the host city. The influence that religion had even in Western countries has virtually eliminated after the Second World War. No Western nation has been enriched through religion. On the contrary, scandals such as those of "The bank Ambrosiano" have impoverished nations further. The rulers of the nations "atheistic" hardly would cry at all "doom" to his downfall.   NLI Woe traders Israel is the largest trading partner in the world. Whatever international trader would be in trouble losing a partner like that. The same applies to all the smaller traders who depend, in whole or in part, from the larger ones. The fall of Israel is an economic tsunami unprecedented. IMFL Woe traders Because of its art and its opulent buildings, art dealers would cry "doom." It 'hard to imagine a trader of another kind (electronics, space research, etc.) shout "misfortune." The exponents of false religion, however, play the stock market and have many actions in many different activities for which you can not be categorical.   NLI spiritualistic practices The nation of Israel has its "magic practitioners" and most probably practice more than any other nation magic (think of the Jewish Kabbalah). We know from the scriptures that nations are governed by demons and thus may give the power to a nation or person in particular - 17:18 Revelation; Luke 4: 5-7 The MFL spiritualistic practices The world empire of false religion, by its nature, is "misleading all nations through his spiritualistic practices". All the bloodiest wars were fought because of religious conditioning.   N LI Blood of the saints and of all those slain The Jewish people, as owners of the world's largest banks, has stirred up a lot of wars, even recent ones, for their own economic purposes. Israel is embroiled in the secret services, in international arms trafficking and everything imaginable. It is historically proven that some of the assassinations more "important" have Jewish origins. Jesus identifies Israel as responsible for the payment of "all the righteous blood" - Matthew 23:35 - Luke 11:50, 51 We can assume that Jehovah and Jesus regard as particularly responsible for those who have "know God" and, despite this, they commit unspeakable crimes? - Hosea 8: 2 - Amos 3: 2 IMFL Blood of the saints and of all those slain The violence of false religion as a whole is evident and has no equal in any other country / organization. Having 6,000 years of crimes behind, is not comparable to anything else in known on earth.   NLI Come out of her my people In Israel, as in all the world, our brothers are active. If the UN is going to vent his fury on this nation (because of Jehovah's will) it is obvious and loving from God that He calls His people to come out. This would save a remnant, as reported several times in the Scriptures. This would be the third time that Jehovah destroys "his people" because with their actions show they are no longer his people - Deuteronomy 32: 5 - Revelation 4: 8; 8:13; 16:13, 19 - Ezekiel 21:14 IMFL Come out of her my people Being a symbolic nation can not literally see this spiritual exodus . The two subjects can not be compared. However, it is interesting to note that when Jehovah called his people from Babylon also saying not to be yoked and "do not touch anything unclean," they were already His people dedicated and baptized. His people had come away from a pagan nation (literal). They were not people who were part of another religion and that having good intentions, they would then dedicated baptized and becoming successively His people - II Corinthians 6: 14-18   Reflections   As written at the beginning of this discussion, in the Bible there are hundreds of parallels between Babylon and faithless Israel . Even the cup "full of disgusting things" from which the prostitute is inebriated remembers the utensils of Jehovah's temple. The question is what do we mean when we read these parallel. The table above shows both subjects have strengths and, at least in appearance, weaknesses. A strong point in favor of modern Israel is the fact that it ride the wild beast scarlet, and that is itself dressed in scarlet (which suggests a literal nation). A strong point of world empire of false religion is the shedding of blood; Although the state of Israel has a huge guilt of blood, of course you can not compare to 6000 years of abuse and violence attributable to false religion. However you should not make the mistake of thinking that it is the intensity of a clue to establish the identity of the subject. If anything is the amount of clues, even their totality. If only a small indication not match (and this was proven beyond doubt) apart from all the others, this would compromise the identity.   All of Jehovah's judgments, given in the Scriptures, beat upon peoples and nations literal and also sends plagues upon Egypt, which served to destroy / humiliate their false gods, however, had to fall on a specific country. Moreover, the war of Armageddon, destroying all the nations (which are governed by demons), automatically eliminate all forms of religion; If Babylon the Great was a nation of special interest , but still a nation, this would simply be a sign that the satanic system is about to reach its tragic end - Daniel 2:44   In the book "The prophecies of Isaiah" volume 1, page 202 paragraph 28 (in italian edition) contains Isaiah 19: 3 and it reads ... "Similarly, in the day of judgment, false religion will be unable to save this corrupt system of things." But if Egypt represents the world as a whole, we are already at Armageddon (Isaiah 19: 2 Jehovah puts "Egyptian against Egyptian") and the world empire of false religion (if it is Babylon the Great) was already destroyed . Now, if the world empire of false religion has been previously destroyed , in what sense "the people will resort to the worthless, the charmers and to the spirit mediums"? Only a world still steeped in religion, after the destruction of Babylon the Great, could "resort to the valueless gods."   The above might be in harmony with the writing of Zechariah 13: 4-6 which speaks of "the prophet" who will deny ever be? The Watchtower of July 15, 2015, the subtitle "The beginning of the great tribulation," says ... " Therefore it seems that even some members of the clergy will abandon their religious career and deny that he had ever been a part of false religion." Yet if for the Great adherents of Babylon simply "change his jacket" for their lives (which would make the majority of them, not having a true faith), it seems as if it has been "torn and completely burned with fire." It 'also difficult to imagine this "great mourning" since the majority of the clergy, especially of Christianity, would still be alive after the destruction of Babylon the Great.   The book "Revelation: its peak" in chapter 19 paragraph 29 says ... "Neither the caverns literal mountains nor the political and commercial organizations comparable to the mountains will provide economic security or assistance of another kind." However, even false worship in the Bible is related with the "high places" such as in Ezekiel 6: 1-5 (the high places that did not protect the unfaithful Israelites from the wrath of Jehovah). It 'possible that, in the day of Jehovah del'ira (so after the Great Tribulation) humans will seek protection in political, commercial institutions and religious?   Everything that follows is taken from the book "Babylon" and, to the extent possible, we will see if what he said you can apply it to the modern nation of Israel. Although the book is not updated all'intendimento current (later I will use the book "Revelation: its climax" as reference) reflections and principles on which it was based are still interesting and can provide food for thought.   From the book "Babylon the Great" (bf) Friday, September 8, 1922, an international assembly of non-sectarian Bible students in Cedar Point, Ohio, at a conference on "The Kingdom" at 9:30, they were told that they had to be witnesses of the Lord God, that witnesses Jehovah. The speaker, J. F. Rutherford, then president of the Society Watch Tower Bible and Tract cited the thousands of people gathered in assembly Isaiah 43: 8-12 and then went on to say: Thus we see that those of the temple class are clearly designated as witnesses of God at this time, to bring a message of consolation to the people, who came to the kingdom of heaven and that millions of people now living will never die. Thus we see that God's purpose that his name be magnified, that the people may know that he is Lord. Thus we see that God's purpose to have the earth a people in this time of distress, clearly marked as separate and distinct from all others, that stands like his witnesses, proclaiming boldly the message: "The kingdom of heaven is at hand! " . . . This is confirmed by the Lord in Matthew 24:14. Clearly it is then expressed as proof that the temple class must continue to declare this message of the kingdom until their earthly career is not over. They have to be his faithful witnesses until the walls of Babylon does not collapse to the ground. . . . Be faithful and true witnesses for the Lord. Advanced in the fight until every vestige of Babylon are not desolate. Proclaim the message far and wide. The world must know that Jehovah is God and that Jesus Christ is King of kings and Lord of lords. This is the day of days. Behold, the King reigns! You are his publicity agents. Thus announced, announced, announced the King and his kingdom. - Pages 336, 337 de La Watchtower (English) November 1, 1922.   Note: It was 1922 and did not exist and neither one imagined the birth of modern Israel, which, in fact, takes place May 14, 1948.   (Bf) Recall that the original Babylon was founded as a deviation from adoration of Jehovah's love and loyalty to him as God, as Babylon was established by a rebel who placed himself against. That rebel was stigmatized as "Nimrod mighty hunter in opposition to Jehovah." Then the people of the pagan city they called the "Gate of God." However, Jehovah called the city Babel, meaning "Confusion", because it confused the language of the builders of the city and its tower. (Genesis 10: 8-10; 11: 5-9) Babel ( greek,Babylon) was never a Jewish city; It never was Jewish; It was never Messianic or Christian, since it was never the organization of Jehovah God. He was always against his chosen people, and so was against Sion. In the days of the dynasty of Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon it had apparently swallowed the chosen nation of Israel "like a big snake" o dragone. (Jeremiah 51:34) The purpose of Babylon was to crack down on Israel.     Note: If Babylon has "swallowed" Israel now bears his name but it is a hoax. It's called "Israel" but Babylon. It makes sure to blend with Israel, the look of it.     (Bf) How Semitic world power for more than seventy years, Babylon was, of course, politics. It was militaristic. It was highly commercial. But it was remarkably religious   If Babylon the Great was a literal nation, the above description which nation would seem to describe today?   (Bf) As soon as the priests could Babylonians converted into money all animal sacrifices and all religious tithes that the people had every day on the altars, especially the things deteriorated quickly. Just like in the hometown of Abraham in Ur of the Chaldeans, the Templars authorities had their deposits required and directed their own shops. They felt good to invest their religious revenue and for this purpose they had, therefore, their own banks.   If it were a literal nation, which nation would seem to describe?   (Bf) What, then, Babylon the Great, whose announced by the fall of God in Revelation 14: 8? It must look like ancient Babylon in remarkable ways, especially in the time of his fall . Otherwise, the name would be inappropriate. First of all, ancient Babylon ruled an empire, the largest empire until that time, so that the line of the World Powers it was the Third World Power. There flourished policy, militarism, commercialism and religion, but religion predominated, especially during the dynasty of Nebuchadnezzar. His religion placed it against Zion or Jerusalem, where the Jewish kings sat on "Jehovah's throne" and where the temple built by King Solomon was the national center of worship of Jehovah.   If it were a literal nation, which nation would seem to describe?   (Bf) Although it is an empire religion, it became in itself commercial and political and formed alliances with the political and commercial elements of this kind worldwide.   These two lines, in some way, belie the claim that Babylon the Great is not also a religious empire (literal), political and trade exactly as it was ancient Babylon.   (Bf) Even Judaism has attached to Babylon the Great. In the first century, Jesus and his twelve apostles applied to traditional Judaism of their day Bible prophecies that refer to Babylon as a place of exile and captivity from which Jehovah's people was asked to leave. Nineteen centuries ago, when the Messiah came to Zion, traditional Judaism practically turned the whole nation against him. He kept his grip on her way Jewish prisoners. Up to this day, traditional Judaism has not changed. It still retains its Jewish prisoners away from the freedom that the promised Messiah.   (Bf) In 1914 CE Babylon the Great, or the world empire of the Babylonian religion, came to its most critical period in world history. Until then it had, as he said the angel of God, "did drink all the wine countries of the passion of her fornication" (Revelation 14: 8) He had made friends with the political rulers of this world and so had committed with their spiritual fornication. (James 4: 4) He had used his religious influence on worldly rulers to stay in power. He swung the support of its religionists in favor of the Gentiles worldly rulers. This had made the nations drink the "wine of the passion", that is, political oppression, trade and economic, religious persecution, the holy wars, religious wars, crusades, and wars of nations for purely political and commercial reasons. Such selfish wars Babylon the Great the sanctified, declaring that they were God's will, so that taking part would do his will.   If talking about a literal nation, that nation would reflect perfectly this description? Friendship with political leaders, religious influence on rulers to retain power, political oppression, the world trade and economic, holy wars for political and commercial reasons etc. There is also a contradiction (at least in appearance). If Babylon the Great falls for the first time in 1919, as can be seen riding the scarlet beast that is the League Of Nations created on June 28, 1919? Babylon the Great can be seen sitting only after the creation of the League and then fall in a period still later but not before.   (Bf) What, then, the image of the wild beast? Between World War I and World War II it was the League of Nations, which once had up to sixty members nations, as the worship of the image and the wild beast was then so great ...   Altr in apparent contr addition . Religion is nothing but "the form of worship." Now if Babylon the Great is the world empire of false religion (and therefore includes all sorts of worship away from Jehovah) this should include the worship of the wild beast. So we should resize the title "world empire of false religion," having ruled out, inevitably, nationalism and militarism? The worship of the wild beast? Nationalism is it not a form of religion?     Other considerations   If we accept the possibility that Babylon the Great is a literal place (and is modern Israel) we have to consider that even the mountains, on which the woman sitteth, are literal mountains. We always speak of the seven world powers of Bible history, but we never hear of the seven mountains. He never speaks of the seven mountains because the political powers, they say, are the seven mountains. Yet the writing of Revelation 17 says that there are seven kings ... and (conjunction, in Italian, meaning "and there are also") seven mountains and this conjunction might suggest that, even though the mountains depict power as well we know , there are actually seven mountains as objects of similarity with the number of kings. It would seem a literal useful clue to identify Babylon the Great. Now the question is ... Who and how many mountains are mentioned in the Scriptures which were part of the Promised Land? 1) Mount Moria 2) Mount Zion 3) Mount of Olives 4) Gilboa 5) Gerizim 6) Ebal 7) Monte Tabor. NB Mount Nebo and others, also mentioned in the Scriptures, were part of the territory of Moab and Edom and are therefore excluded . This parallel is original place, simply impossible to do with the world empire of false religion.   Revelation 3:12 and other scriptures that are fulfilled after the Lord's Day, which mention the New Jerusalem, seem to emphasize a distinction with Old Jerusalem. In chap. 18 of Revelation, Babylon the Great is destroyed. In chapter 19: 7, 8 prepares the marriage of the lamb, so ... Died the prostitute who passed himself off as the bride and the wedding may have finally begun. The marriage takes place with the " New Jerusalem "; the prostitute was perhaps the " Old Jerusalem " that is, the carnal, unclean, disobedient, idolatrous? - I Corinthians 9: 6-8; 10:18 - Galatians 4: 26-29 If I tried a people and a nation that pretends literal and that it was the people of God, to whom I would go nationwide? Only the people who actually were the people of God have what it takes, so to speak, to impersonate legitimate wife.   Babylon is also called "the great city" and the only biblical reference is Nineveh, "the city of bloodshed". This seems in keeping with the fact that Babylon is drunk with the blood of the saints, prophets and all. However in Jeremiah chapter. 22 Jehovah's condemnation of Judah, which is the city of Shallum and Jehoiakim, and people call this city "that great city." So, the city that had once belonged to the Jehovah's "great city" is defined.   Revelation 18: 1, 2 " After this I saw another angel coming down from heaven, with great authority; and the earth was illuminated by his glory. 2  And he cried with a loud voice, saying," Fallen! Babylon the Great has fallen , and it became a dwelling place of demons and a place of refuge for every unclean exhalation and place of refuge for every unclean and hateful bird! " This thundering description of the Angel repeated three times the word "place" (in old traduction bible): 1 ) dwelling place of demons 2 ) place of refuge of every unclean exhalation 3 ) place of refuge of every bird unclean and hateful. We can assume that, by emphasizing three times the word "place" , you are indicating a place / literal nation? This writing may strengthen the hypothesis that Babylon the Great is a literal nation?   Of the two witnesses in sackcloth described in chapter 11 of Revelation says that, once killed, "their corpses will be on the broad way of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also their Lord was put to pole "- Revelation 11: 8 What "great city" the Lord Jesus was impaled?   Finally, we might ask why, the Revelation writer, after watching scary wild animals, amazing celestial visions is beautiful that terrifying thunderous statements and many other things, only the sight of the woman he "marveled of great marveled " - Revelation 17: 6 , 7 Obviously we can not know why you can only make hypotheses but generally you wonder when you see something that you can never expect to see. It is as if to say ... "But are you? Really? You?" She, who? There may be "marveled with great marveles" for having seen his own people and his own nation (which at the time of writing Revelation no existing more)?     I copy and paste what I was telling the Watchtower of November 1, 2010, pages 27 to 29 ...   The Bible foretold the modern State of Israel? THE WORLD regarded with apprehension to the Middle East. missile attacks, clashes between armed militias, and terrorist bombings are a daily occurrence. In this explosive mixture the very real risk should be added that recourse to nuclear weapons. No wonder that in every place the people are worried. A similar atmosphere is breathed in relation to the Middle East 62 years ago, in May 1948. The British Mandate territory then called Palestine was ending, and war was imminent. The year before, the United Nations had authorized the creation, in a part of the occupied territories, of an independent Jewish state . The neighboring Arab nations had vowed to prevent at all costs. The Arab League warned: "The proposed line for the division will be nothing but a line of fire and blood." It was four in the afternoon of Friday 14 May 1948. It consumed the final hours of the British mandate. In the Tel Aviv Museum of respondents they were in 350, at the invitation secret for the much awaited announcement: the official declaration of the birth of the modern nation of Israel. Security levels were high, lest the numerous enemies of the state newly formed attempted to interrupt the event. David Ben Gurion, leader of the National Council of Israel, read the State Declaration of Independence of Israel, which said in part: "We, members of the People's Council, representatives of the Jewish community in Eretz Israel ... by virtue of our right natural and historical and General Assembly of the United Nations, we declare the founding of a Jewish state in Eretz Israel, to be known as the State of Israel ". Fulfilled biblical prophecy? Some Evangelical Protestants believe that the birth of the modern state of Israel then go to fulfill a biblical prophecy. For example, in one of his works, Pastor John Hagee states: "This memorable event was recorded by the hand of the prophet Isaiah with the words: 'A nation will be born in a day'. (See Isaiah 66: 8 ). . . . It was the greatest moment in prophetic history of the twentieth century, the clearest proof, under the eyes of all, that the God of Israel was alive and well. " - Jerusalem Countdown. This statement is correct? Isaiah 66: 8 , perhaps foretelling the birth of the modern State of Israel? And May 14, 1948 was indeed "the greatest moment in prophetic history of the twentieth century"? If the modern State of Israel is still God's chosen nation, and if by means of it he fulfills Bible prophecy, the topic is certainly of great interest to those who study the Bible, wherever they are. The prophecy of Isaiah says: "Who has heard of a thing like this? Who has seen things like these? Will a land be brought forth with labor pains in one day? Or a nation be born at once? For Zion he has come into labor pains as she also brought forth her sons. " ( Isaiah 66: 8 ) The verse clearly foretells the birth of a nation that would have occurred suddenly, as in a single day. But who was supposed to give this birth? The next verse helps answer: " 'As for me, I will break and I will not give birth?' says Jehovah. 'Either I give birth and do I actually quit?' says your God. " Jehovah God shows beyond doubt that the extraordinary birth of the nation would work his. Modern Israel is a democracy that has never officially claimed to trust in the God of the Bible. In 1948 the Israelis might recognize Jehovah God as the sole supporter of their national entities? No. In the original draft of the Declaration of God's name was not even mentioned, and besides, even the word "God." About the final draft of the document, a book of Jewish history says: "Until one o'clock in the afternoon, when the National Council gathered, its members were unable to agree on the wording of the Declaration of Independence. . . . Observant Jews wanted it made reference to 'God of Israel'. The laity were opposed. Finding a compromise, Ben Gurion opted for the word 'Rock' instead of the word 'God'. " - Great Moments in Jewish History. The modern State of Israel is proud of its national entity on the basis of a UN resolution and what is called the natural and historic right of the Jewish people. But is it reasonable to assume that the God of the Bible accomplished the greatest miracle aimed to fulfill a prophecy in the twentieth century in favor of a people that refuses to give him honor. False religion has given honor to the birth of the nation of Israel as if it was "God's will." So we can say that the birth of this nation has created some "confusion"? Confusion in all who do not know the Bible. Hence the name, "Babylon", it would be appropriate for the modern nation of Israel.   Here are reflections of some records already seen explained in the book "Revelation its climax" (king).   "Come out of her, my people" (explanation from the book "King") Revelation 18: 4 says, "And I heard another voice from heaven saying, 'Come out of her, my people, if you do not want to share with her in her sins, and if you do not want to receive part of her plagues.'" The book of "Revelation: its climax", page 265 paragraph 24 says that God's servants must separate from false religion if you do not want to receive part of her plagues. However we can reason on the meaning of "my people"? Everyone in the false religion, despite having the best intentions, can not be defined as "people of God." This fact is one of the things that the people of the world reproach us when they say "Only you believe to have the truth!". In fact, it becomes part of God's people only after understanding the basic Bible truths, having repented of the conduct of the past, having converted and then having dedicated, baptized. That's right? How can God call his people from the ranks of false religion? If Babylon the Great is the world empire of false religion we must necessarily assume that God calls those who will become his people. Those people who potentially could become his people but who are not yet. Scripture, however, it seems clear that, when it calls these people "out of Babylon", they are already His people (just as happened in ancient times, they probably had to be cleansed and disciplined but were left, all the time, his people). If Babylon the Great, however, is the modern nation of Israel, then there is not much to interpret. Even in the modern nation of Israel are our dear brothers. And 'it possible that God is saying, to the brothers in Israel, literally to flee away in the imminent destruction seen? This would mean that "the rest", as reported many times in the Scriptures, would literally (physically) a remnant! A remaining to save.   When in 70 CE the first Christians received the command to "flee to the mountains" in view of the destruction that would take place by means of the "disgusting thing" (i.e. at the time of the Roman Empire), they understood it as "separate from Judaism" or this was a natural consequence of the Master's teachings? They do not perhaps understood how to get out literally from the city ?   Writing Romans 9:27, where Paul quotes Isaiah, could have a literal fulfillment?   Jeremiah 25:10, 11 and Revelation 18:22, 23 are very similar to each other yet Jeremiah speaks of Israel and Revelation speaks of Babylon the Great.   In Revelation 18: 5-8 it says, "God has been mindful of his acts of injustice." Because God "has been mindful"? False religion has not always done evil in a 6000 story, without stopping for a moment from the time of Nimrod? It could not be because "Babylon" has not existed for many years, as a nation, but appears again after the "Lord's Day" by another name?   From the book "Insight", in "Babylon the Great," he said ... Features of ancient Babylon. The foundation of Babylon in the plains of Shinar coincided with the attempt to build the tower of Babel. (Ge 11: 2-9) The construction of the city and by the people tower was not motivated by the intention to exalt the name of God, but by the desire to 'make a celebrated name'. The ziggurat discoveries not only in the ruins of ancient Babylon but throughout Mesopotamia seem to confirm the essentially religious nature of the original tower, whatever its form or its style. The resolute action of Jehovah God to overthrow the temple construction is a clear condemnation of his false religious origin. While the Hebrew name of the city, Babel, means "confusion", the Sumerian name ( Ka-ra-dingir ) and Akkadian (Bab-ilu ) both mean "God's door." So the people left in the city they altered the name to avoid the original meaning of condemnation, but the new form also reveals the religious nature of the city.   What was also reported recently in the slave publications, the creation of the modern nation of Israel and the return of the Jews at home was not the work of God and, much more serious, was not made to give glory to God. on the contrary, all this was done to "the desire to become a famous name." The Jewish religion also still believed to be the "Gate of God" but it is a mystification of reality. It is not a lawful wife or queen but, with its political and commercial alliances, has proven to be a sordid prostitute (biblically speaking).   In Revelation 16: 16-21 we are now at Armageddon, the great city is divided into three parts, nations fall and Babylon, "was remembered." So Babylon is related with the fall of other nations as if it were a special nation "," something to remember, but still a nation. Which, among all nations of the earth , it might be considered "special" from Jehovah God?   The golden cup full of "disgusting things" hand-held by the great harlot might remember the utensils of God's temple? - Compare Daniel 5: 1-4   In 2 Kings 17: 24-30 some Babylonians become "Israelites" settling in Samaria but they are Babylonian idolaters and God makes them devoured by lions. This does not seem a parallel with what the Bible says of Babylon the Great? Also in the book "Insight" to "Samaritan - The Samaritan religion," says ...   The Samaritan religion.The development of the Samaritan religion was due to several factors, not least the result of Jeroboam's efforts to expel the ten tribes by the adoration of Jehovah centralized in Jerusalem. In about 250 years after the nation split into two kingdoms, the priests the Levites ordained of God were replaced by a priesthood of human origin which, in turn, led the kingdom of Israel to practice a degrading form of idolatry. (1 Kings 12: 28-33; 2 Kings 17: 7-17; 2Ch 11: 13-15; 13: 8, 9) Then there was the fall of the northern kingdom. The pagan immigrants came from Babylon, Cuthah, Avva, Hamath and Sepharvaim worshiped many gods: Sukkot-Benot, Nergal, Ashima, Nibaz, Tartak, Adrammelech and Anammelec. Although they learned something about Jehovah by teaching a priest of the Jeroboam priesthood, however, as Samaria had done with the golden calves, so they, generation after generation, continued to worship their false gods. (2 Kings 17: 24-41) Nearly a century after the fall of Samaria, all attempts to Josiah to eliminate the idolatrous worship of those northern communities had no more lasting effect of similar reforms he did both in the southern kingdom of Judah. - 2 Kings 23: 4-20; 2Ch 34: 6, 7. In 537 BCE, a remnant of the twelve tribes returned from Babylonian exile prepared to rebuild Jehovah's temple in Jerusalem. (Ezra 1: 3; 2: 1, 70) It was then that the "Samaritans", which were already in the country when they arrived the Israelites and that were described as "adversaries of Judah and Benjamin," they turned to Zerubbabel and to elders, saying, "Let us build with you; because, just like you, we seek your God and we sacrifice since the days of Esar-haddon king of Assyria, who put us here. " (Ezra 4: 1, 2) This alleged devotion to Jehovah, however, showed only formal; In fact, when Zerubbabel declined the offer, the Samaritans did everything they could to prevent the construction of the temple. Failed all their concerted attempts to harass and intimidate the Israelites, Persian emperor did send a letter containing false allegations, and managed to get a government decree that made suspend construction for several years. - Ezra 4: 3-24. In the mid-fifth century BCE, when Nehemiah began repairing Jerusalem's walls, Sanballat (governor of Samaria, according to a papyrus from Elephantine) made several unsuccessful but vigorous attempts to stop the work. (Ne 2:19, 20; 4: 1-12; 6: 1-15) Later, after a prolonged absence, Nehemiah returned to Jerusalem and found the grandson of High Priest Eliashib had married the daughter of Sanballat. Immediately Nehemiah 'chased him away'. - Ne 13: 6, 7, 28.   "The Levitical priests ordained by God were replaced by priests of human origin" : this is not what happened to Israel after God has abandoned the faithless nation in 70 CE? The pagan immigrants came from Babylon become "Israelites" by force (ie, not by God), also learning something about the religion of the Jews, and mingling with them through intermarriage but they basically have Babylonians. It can be assumed that God takes this modern nation for what it really is and that is a modern Babylon? In 537 BCE, the "enemies of Judah and Benjamin," they turned to Zorobabel, and the elders, saying, "Let us build with you; because, just like you, we seek your God and we sacrifice since the days of Esar-haddon king of Assyria, who put us here. " So Babylon in the territory of the true Israel has never disappeared and has never ceased to claim to serve God.   In the book "Revelation" on page 207, paragraph 5, the explanation fits very well to the modern nation of Israel. Even now the Jews believe they are the chosen race, the people of God, and give to God their commercial and military victories. They believe that God has given them authority over all the nations of the world but they, in the words of the Lord, have another father. - Matthew 4: 8-10 - John 8: 43-47 They still say "sit queen, and am no widow, and shall see no mourning."   Question one. According to the explanation of the book "Revelation: its climax" is appropriate that the great whore sit on the wild beast scarlet because, false religion, has always had the power over the kings of the earth reaching even to name them and to oust them. We know that the League or the League of Nations has as its representatives even "old nations" mentioned in the Bible as Roma, Medo-Persia, and others but would not be more logical to see the "great whore" ride the first wild beast, and that is the one that ascends from sea, since false religion has existed since Nimrod times? Instead the great harlot sits on the beast that " was, but is not, and is about to ascend from the abyss, and it will go into destruction " - Revelation 17: 8a What rode the world empire of false religion when the beast not had?   Question two. As has been pointed out, in the Bible Israel is compared to a wife, and Jehovah's husbandly owner. When it seemed to be unfaithful, in alliance with other nations and mixing with false worship, Israel became "infidel" and even "prostitute." Christendom claims to serve God, but in reality, is a prostitute with the nations and in all false doctrine of pagan origin. However if Babylon the Great is the world empire of false religion (and therefore also includes religions such as Buddhism, Shintoism, Hinduism, tribal religions etc), because it is considered as a whole, a prostitute? Jehovah has never been identified as the "husbandly owner" of nations like Ammon, Moab, Egypt or other. So if we apply the concept of prostitution only in a spiritual-religious sense, one would think that this infamous prostitute is only Christianity . Want you know more? Please, visit https://attenzioneallaprofezia.blogspot.it/

I did not follow the conversation from the beginning so I'm not sure of the purpose of this discussion.
From personal experience I know that this date is often mentioned to corroborate or invalidate an alleged calculation of the "seven times" of Nebuchadnezzar's dream. If this is the final purpose of this discussion, then I believe that there are much more important questions.
If the purpose of this discussion is a "historical curiosity", then it is interesting.
If I were a historian, then it would be very important to understand how and where to place the events; study the evidence in favor and the contrary evidence.
As for our beliefs, however, I believe that a Christian should ask himself a more profound and important question.
The Bible book of Daniel, when it spoke of the seven times, refers to the establishment of God's Kingdom?
The question is very simple: what is the use of making a thousand discussions on a historical date if the object of the question is another?
If Daniel chapter 4 is not talking about the establishment of the Kingdom of God but of something else, is it really important to find out an exact date for a wrong event?
Twenty years more or less really do a difference if the interpretation of final event is wrong?
Good reflections to everyone
 

I did not follow the conversation from the beginning so I'm not sure of the purpose of this discussion.
From personal experience I know that this date is often mentioned to corroborate or invalidate an alleged calculation of the "seven times" of Nebuchadnezzar's dream. If this is the final purpose of this discussion, then I believe that there are much more important questions.
If the purpose of this discussion is a "historical curiosity", then it is interesting.
If I were a historian, then it would be very important to understand how and where to place the events; study the evidence in favor and the contrary evidence.
As for our beliefs, however, I believe that a Christian should ask himself a more profound and important question.
The Bible book of Daniel, when it spoke of the seven times, refers to the establishment of God's Kingdom?
The question is very simple: what is the use of making a thousand discussions on a historical date if the object of the question is another?
If Daniel chapter 4 is not talking about the establishment of the Kingdom of God but of something else, is it really important to find out an exact date for a wrong event?
Twenty years more or less really do a difference if the interpretation of final event is wrong?
Good reflections to everyone
 

El primer capítulo del libro "Apocalipsis: se acerca su magnifica culminación" (en lo sucesivo denominado "Re"), párrafos 8 y 9 dicen (en la ediciòn en idioma italian) ... 8Una razón aún más importante para publicar este libro fue la necesidad de mantenerse actualizados con la verdad presente. Jehová sigue haciendo más y más luz sobre el significado de su Palabra, y podemos esperar que nuestra comprensión de la Apocalipsis, junto con la de otras profecías, se agudiza cuando nos acercamos a la gran tribulación. (Mateo 24:21; Apocalipsis 7:14) Es importante que estamos bien informados. Hablando de la profecía divina el apóstol Pedro escribió: "Usted está haciendo bien en prestarle atención como a una lámpara que brilla en un lugar oscuro, hasta que despunte el día y el lucero de la mañana salga en vuestros corazones." - 2 Pedro 1:19.
9Apocalipsis añade su testimonio de muchas otras profecías de la Biblia, lo que demuestra que los propósitos de Jehová Dios para crear nuevos cielos y una nueva tierra. (Isaías 65:17; 66:22; 2 Pedro 3:13; Apocalipsis 21: 1-5) Su mensaje es principalmente dirigido a los cristianos ungidos, que Jesús ha comprado con su sangre, porque reinado con él en los cielos nuevos. (Apocalipsis 5: 9, 10) Sin embargo, estas buenas noticias fortalecerá la fe, incluso de esos millones de personas que esperan para recibir la vida eterna en el Reino de Cristo. ¿Está usted entre ellos? En este caso Apocalipsis fortalecerá su esperanza de vivir en el paraíso, como parte de la nueva tierra, y disfrutar de la abundancia de la paz, la salud de la Florida y otras innumerables bendiciones de Dios que no tendrá fin. (Salmo 37:11, 29, 34; 72: 1, 7, 8, 16) Si quieres sobrevivir y entrar en este nuevo mundo, es urgente, de hecho, es imperativo que prestar mucha atención a la descripción vívida que la Apocalipsis es inminente clímax que cambiará la historia. - Sofonías 2: 3; Juan 13:17.
 
En acuerdo con esto, este blog tiene el objetivo de evaluar un pozo-actualización de entendimiento sabiendo que esto dependerá del tiempo y la voluntad de Jehová.
También veremos que, en lo que se podía ver desde la Palabra de Dios, aunque los cristianos ungidos tienen un papel importante en este último libro de la Biblia, algunos miembros de la gran multitud tendrán un papel inesperado en los últimos años en este sistema de cosas.
Los primeros capítulos del Apocalipsis, que implican los mensajes dirigidos a "las siete congregaciones", no necesitan ningún comentario, adiciones o modificaciones.
Todo esto se ha tratado muy bien en el libro "Re" y luego simplemente se va estudiado y meditado .
Tampoco es una parte que no está abierto a la interpretación, ya que no es profético.
Incluso la descripción de Jesucristo glorificado, el trono, los cuatro seres vivientes, los veinticuatro ancianos, etc. Ellos no necesitan ninguna discusión.
Sin embargo, ya que en Apocalipsis 1:10 habla del "día del Señor", es importante no "adaptar" a los acontecimientos representados en una fecha específica.
El propósito de este libro es para entender la Apocalipsis y no renegociar 1914 pero ya veremos cómo este libro se ve en la realidad estar en orden cronológico (por lo menos en gran parte), muchos eventos no estarán en armonía con ciertas explicaciones oficiales y fechas asociadas con ellos por lo que inevitablemente va a tocar el tema, ni siquiera indirectamente - I Tesalonicenses 5:20, 21
Todos tendrán que hacer una evaluación honesta.
Al hablar de la profecía, entonces vamos a empezar desde la tercera carrera y eso es desde el capítulo seis.
 
" Vi cuando el Cordero abrió uno de los sellos, y oí a uno de los cuatro seres vivientes decir como con voz de trueno:" Ven "! 2  Y vi, y he aquí un caballo blanco; y el que lo montaba tenía un arco; y le fue dada una corona, y salió venciendo y para completar su victoria " (Apocalipsis 6: 1, 2)
 
Sabemos que el color blanco es la santidad y la justicia y que el caballero "con la corona en la cabeza" no es otro que Jesucristo.
El hecho de que Jesús sale ganando y completar su victoria , no sugiere que simplemente se coronó en medio de sus enemigos (como el libro "re" explica); en todo caso, por la idea de que él se inicia una verdadera guerra para destruir el sistema satánico.
De hecho, el caballo, en la Biblia, es la guerra - Proverbios 21:31
Esto está en armonía con la escritura del Salmo 45: 4-7, hablando de Jesús, dice que "en virtud de sus flechas siguen cayendo los pueblos."
En este sentido, es útil tener en cuenta que el caballero sobre el caballo blanco empuña un arco.
El juicio de Dios en la tierra no comenzó en 1914; las personas no han empezado a caer en las manos de Jesucristo glorificado en aquel año así que tenemos que asumir que este paseo victorioso es todavía futuro.
El libro "re" dice ...
 
El paseo victorioso Jesús continúa durante las décadas iniciales del día del Señor, mientras que las más semejantes a ovejas se reunieron. Incluso si todo el mundo todavía se encuentra "en el poder de los malvados," Jesús con amor sigue para guiar a sus hermanos ungidos y sus socios ayudar de forma individual para lograr la victoria de la fe ".
Sin embargo el escrito Apocalipsis 6: 2 dice en una manera muy simple y directa que "Él salió ganando y completar su victoria", y que tiene un arco se refiere a una guerra literal llevada a cabo por sí mismo. La escritura mencionada no habla en modo alguno de la batalla de la fe luchado por el ungido.
Si no partimos del principio de que esto debería haber sucedido en 1914, no será difícil ver cómo la apertura del primer sello anuncia el comienzo del fin del sistema de cosas.
 
" Y cuando él abrió el segundo sello, oí al segundo ser viviente, que decía:" Ven "! 4  Y salió otro caballo, de color de fuego; y al que estaba sentado en él se le permitió quitar la paz de la tierra por lo que deben sacrificar el uno al otro; y se le dio una gran espada " (Apocalipsis 6: 3, 4)
 
En este sentido, el libro ya mencionado dice lo siguiente.
 
Que vista espantosa! Y no hay dudas sobre lo que es: la guerra! No es la guerra del re victorioso de Jehová, pero la guerra internacional promovida por crueles hombres, con su derramamiento de sangre y sufrimiento innecesario. Qué apropiado que este caballero montar un caballo rojo fuego!
Ciertamente, John no quiere tener nada que ver con este caballero y su paseo imparable, ya que alrededor de los siervos de Dios a profetizar: "Ni se adiestrarán para la guerra." (Isaías 2: 4) Aunque todavía el està "en el mundo", John y, por extensión, la clase John y hoy en día la gran multitud, "no es parte" de este sistema asesino. Nuestras armas son espirituales y "poderosa por Dios" para anunciar activamente la verdad, sin participar en ninguna guerra carnal. - Juan 17:11, 14; 2 Corintios 10: 3, 4.
 
Incluso esta explicación, sin embargo, está ligado a nuestro entendimiento en relación con 1914 y con la creencia de que Jehová no puede utilizar las guerras humanas como su propia herramienta de juicio.
Esto, nos guste o no, está en armonía con muchas acciones descritas en las Escrituras - Éxodo 15: 3; Isaías 03:25
Jehová usó el Imperio de Babilonia para castigar a su pueblo; en el momento en que utilizó el Imperio Medo-Persa de castigar a Babilonia y castigado también, Edom, Amón, Asiria, Tiro, Egipto y muchas otras naciones grandes y pequeñas - Isaías 11:14; 14:31; 34: 6; Jeremías 4: 6, 7; 46: 20-26 ( Véase también Jeremías capítulos 47 a 49 que mencionan los juicios contra Moab, Amón, Edom, Damasco, Cedar, Hazor, Elam y Babilonia, todos estos juicios son ejecutados a través de la guerra humana ).
Muchas naciones han desaparecido por la voluntad de Jehová que, cuando no se utiliza su propio pueblo, lo hizo a través de otras potencias.
Incluso la gran Babilonia, que vamos a ver más detalles más adelante, será destruido por el poder político y por lo tanto descartar que el caballo rojo es parte de la voluntad de Dios no tiene en cuenta los hechos de la escritura.
El caballero del caballo blanco, Jesucristo, salió "ganar y completando su victoria" ¿por qué no debería utilizar las guerras humanas para comenzar a socavar el sistema satánico? - Comparar Lucas 11:17; Hageo 2:22
Al igual que en el primer caballero, el segundo comienza a andar únicamente después de la señal de la criatura viviente que dice: "¡Ven!"
Esto no sugiere que el caballero del caballo rojo, así como de los posteriores caballeros, está obedeciendo a órdenes?
La escritura también dice que a el caballero "se le concedió quitar la paz de la tierra por lo que deben sacrificar unos a los otros" - Comparar Ezequiel 38:21
Se le concedió por quién ?
Las guerras siempre han sido parte de la historia humana y sabemos que muchas de las guerras pasadas fueron instigados por Satanás, el príncipe de este mundo y sus demonios.
Ahora bien, si el caballero del caballo rojo representa la guerra en general, aunque fue el más sangriento del pasado, no habría ninguna razón para especificar que "se le concedió " quitar la paz de la tierra.
Es evidente que esta guerra es diferente no sólo por su alcance.
Es diferente de las guerras pasadas, ya que tiene que ser parte de la guerra iniciada por el caballero del caballo blanco que "sale ganando y completar su victoria."
También es de destacar que el libro bíblico de Daniel menciona varias guerras y eventos relacionados con los reyes del norte y del sur.
"En el tiempo del fin", dice Daniel 11:40, el rey del sur habría chocado con el rey del norte y el rey del norte habría "inundado e invadido" y sería "tropezar muchos países."
Aunque algunas naciones logran sobrevivir o escapar de la mano del rey del norte (Edom, Moab y la parte principal de ammon), después de este choque no se hace más mención del rey del sur.
Esto sugiere que el rey del sur fue derrotado y es difícil imaginar que esto fue hecho por la voluntad del príncipe de este mundo.
Si analizamos, de hecho, la historia de estos dos reyes, vemos que está siempre chocaba que termina con un "punto muerto", es decir, los diversos reyes son siempre "resucitados" bajo otros nombres o imperios.
Esto sucedió como si Satanás y sus demonios se divirtieron, en estas guerras, para equilibrar las fuerzas y "equilibrar las fuerzas" fue de primordial importancia para "seguir jugando".
Por cual razòn debe tener interés, Satanás, para eliminar permanentemente uno de los dos reyes de modo de desequilibrar completamente las fuerzas y desde ese momento, no poder generar mas conflictos reales?
De acuerdo con las palabras de Jesús, Satanás fue un asesino desde el principio en la tierra, pero si, un día, permanece en vigor sólo uno, ninguna nación "satélite" tendría la fuerza o el coraje para hacer la guerra contra el poder dominante - Juan 8:44 ; comparar Apocalipsis 13: 4
En este sentido, es interesante observar que todo el libro de Apocalipsis no menciona dos poderes antagónicos, sino una sola potencia mundial dominante que Satanás de toda su autoridad y poder - Apocalipsis 13: 2
En el libro bíblico de Apocalipsis, donde iban a terminar el rey del norte y el sur? Si el caballo blanco y el caballo rojo comenzaron su viaje en el 1914, año en el que el estallido de la Primera Guerra Mundial y luego la segunda, ¿por qué no hablan de estos dos reyes como lo hace Daniel?
Parece obvio que esta parte de la Apocalipsis, osea lo del caballero del caballo blanco y el del caballo rojo, comienza con una guerra humana, dirigida por Jesucristo, que matará el rey del sur.
Este caballero es, probablemente , la primera flecha del caballero sobre el caballo blanco - Salmo 45: 4-7
Por lo tanto, debemos esperar una guerra mundial sin precedentes que será puesto a muchas naciones, particularmente aquellas que conforman el rey del sur pero no solamente estas.
 
5  Cuando abrió el tercer sello, oí al tercer ser viviente, que decía: "¡Ven!" Miré, y he aquí un caballo negro; y el que lo montaba tenía una balanza en la mano. 6  Y oí como una voz en medio de los cuatro seres vivientes decir, "Un litro de trigo por un denario, y seis libras de cebada por un denario; y no dañes el aceite ni el vino " (Apocalipsis 6: 5, 6)
 
Si aceptamos la posibilidad de las escrituras que el caballero del caballo rojo ha sido enviado por Jesucristo, entonces no podemos que aplicar el mismo principio a este caballero.
Antes de pensar que la imagen es demasiado cruda para ser aceptada, hay que ver si se refleja en la Biblia - II Timoteo 3: 16, 17
Mientras tanto, sabemos que cada gran guerra siempre es seguida por una gran hambre.
Cuando Jerusalén fue destruida en el año 70, se dice que algunas madres llegaron al punto de comer a sus propios hijos - compara Ezequiel capítulos 3 a 5
En muchos escritos Jehová utilizò la grave hambruna para castigar incluso a su propia gente - Isaías 14:30; Jeremías 11:22; 14:11; 15: 2; Jeremías 21: 7 (capítulos Jeremiah 38 a 44 hablan de hambre).
Si todo lo que se ha escrito en el pasado fue escrito "para nuestra instrucción," ¿Estamos realmente seguros de que la Biblia no confirma la hambruna en todo el mundo como parte del juicio de Dios? - Romanos 15: 4
Estamos seguros de que este señor no representa la segunda flecha del caballero sobre el caballo blanco?
 
Y cuando él abrió el cuarto sello, oí la voz del cuarto ser viviente que decía: "¡Ven!" 8  Y miré, y he aquí un caballo amarillo; y el que lo montaba tenía por nombre Muerte. Y el Hades se le sigue de cerca. Y les dio autoridad sobre la cuarta parte de la tierra, para matar con una espada larga y con escasez de alimentos y la plaga mortal y con las fieras de la tierra. (Apocalipsis 6: 7, 8)
 
El libro "Apocalipsis" hace una lista de los millones de muertes causadas por la gripe española, por enfermedades del corazón, cáncer, SIDA, etc.
Toda la explicación no conecte absolutamente estos flagelos con la voluntad del caballo blanco; de hecho, muchas veces nos dice que "el caballero del caballo blanco" detendrà la cabalgata de otros caballeros como si fueran antagonistas.
Sin embargo, es significativo que el caballero se llama Muerte, y el Hades le seguía seguirle de cerca porque justo antes, en Apocalipsis 1:18, Jesús dice que "tiene las llaves del Hades y de la muerte."
Sólo lo que tiene las llaves de la muerte y del Hades es el único que puede entrar y salir - Apocalipsis 3: 7 (Véase también Apocalipsis 20:13, 14)
Jesús, como todos sabemos, es también "el ángel del abismo".
Entonces, ¿quién puede tener autoridad sobre la muerte y Hades? ¿Quién puede dar fin a ese caballero para comenzar su paseo?
También este caballero parece contener los dos caballeros anteriores diciendo que mata "con la espada larga" (y es una referencia al caballero del caballo rojo) y la escasez de alimentos (el caballo negro).
La herida mortal que recuerda a la plaga y sabemos que los juicios de Jehová también se revelan de esta manera (véase, por ejemplo, Éxodo 09:15; Levítico 26:25; II Samuel doce y quince; Salmo 78:50; Jeremías 21: 6; Ezequiel 5:12) y, por último, la mención de "bestias salvajes de la tierra" parece señalar que esta es la guerra o las consecuencias de la guerra.
Los poderes políticos, de hecho, siempre han sido vistos como animales salvajes - ver Daniel 7: 2-12
Si meditamos en los diversos juicios que Dios se volvió contra las naciones, no podemos negar que El se ha utilizado exactamente de la guerra, la hambre y varias heridas mortales a medida que se describen vívidamente por estos caballeros - ver Ezequiel 05:16, 17
Asimismo, no parece una contradicción que el primer caballero, lo que sale una vez abierto el primer sello, no tiene nada que ver con los otros tres?
Sin embargo, todos ellos son parte del mismo rollo , están todos llamados por los cuatro seres vivientes y también lo que le sucede a la apertura del quinto, sexto y séptimo sellos se entiende ser el conjunto de las intenciones y voluntad de Jehová.
En el libro de Apocalipsis se habla de las siete trompetas , que marcan los juicios de Dios, entonces se habla de siete copas de la ira de Dios.
Es por lo tanto, razonable creer que, hablando de los siete sellos, tres de ellos (es decir, tres entre siete) no tienen nada que ver con los juicios ni con la voluntad de Dios?
 

All right, dear JW Insider, I will be happy to have a constructive conversation, in the light of the Scriptures, on these calculations and points of reference.
I would like to point out a contradiction in your words (if I have understood well from the translation).
If you admit that the 1260, 1290 and 1335 were not about assemblies or resolutions, they obviously concern something else, right?
Have you already got an idea of what these days could be?
is it something past or future?
If it were something future, it is obvious that "from a certain point" we need to start calculating, is not it?
If, instead, it is something past, we should be able to understand what the prophecy referred to (you yourself said that "we will understand it later").
However now I am coming out of the original article (which is dedicated to 1975). So I leave you with these questions.
I wish you the best

All right, dear JW Insider, I will be happy to have a constructive conversation, in the light of the Scriptures, on these calculations and points of reference.
I would like to point out a contradiction in your words (if I have understood well from the translation).
If you admit that the 1260, 1290 and 1335 were not about assemblies or resolutions, they obviously concern something else, right?
Have you already got an idea of what these days could be?
is it something past or future?
If it were something future, it is obvious that "from a certain point" we need to start calculating, is not it?
If, instead, it is something past, we should be able to understand what the prophecy referred to (you yourself said that "we will understand it later").
However now I am coming out of the original article (which is dedicated to 1975). So I leave you with these questions.
I wish you the best

"Re-discussing the departure date" does not need to understand the day and time. You rightly mentioned 1 Thessalonians 5 and I agree.
That there is "nothing more to calculate", however, it is a mistake.
If there is nothing more to calculate then what is it used to write, for example, that the two witnesses dressed in sack will preach for 1260 days?
1260 days from when?
If there is nothing more to compute because the angel says to Daniel "happy who is waiting and arrives at 1335 days"?
If we do not have to calculate why Revelation and Daniel talk about specific days and also say when to start?
According to your reasoning both the angel who speaks to Daniel and also the vision of John have made a mistake.
You who are a reflective person, you will not believe that the 1260 days or 1290 or 1335 days concern assemblies, books, resolutions, is not it?
Why, when Daniele asks "What will be the end of these things?" the angel does not tell him "You do not have to calculate, no one has to calculate, you can not know"?
The people of the world do not "see anything" but Christians have the Word of God.
The scripture you quoted continues: "But you brothers, you are not in darkness, so that day comes upon you as upon thieves, because you are all children of light and children of the day We belong neither to the night nor to the darkness "- 1 Thessalonians 5: 4, 5
The Bible clearly explains (not me) the order of events and even periods.
This does not mean knowing precisely "the day and the hour" but the order of events, yes.
The people of God, today, are watching this "superimposed geberation" which is non-scriptural nonsense.
Instead, the suppression of the continuous sacrifice is scriptural (whether it happened on April 20, 2017 or a future one) and from this event we begin to count clear and specific days.
I have not yet found any "superimposed generation" in the Bible (did you find it?)
instead, read what the Bible says about the suppression of continual sacrifice: "And I heard a certain saint speak, and another saint said to him that he was speaking:" Until the vision of the [constant] sacrifice and of the transgression that causes desolation , to make both [the] holy place and [the] army something to trample on? "14Thus said to me:" Up to two thousand three hundred [and] mornings, and [the] holy place will certainly be brought to the right condition. "- Daniel 8:13, 14 (see Revelation 11:7)
We must honestly ask ourselves whether we have gone from making absurd and ridiculous calculations (like those of the seventh millennium) to failing to see what is written in the Bible.
 

There is a story that runs on the Internet, including Facebook channels of Jehovah's Witnesses, which mentions an overseer's speech.
Obviously I can not know if it is reality or if the speech has been "inflated".
However, there is certainly something true.
He basically says something like this: "I would like to let you know how the Governing Body feels.We work close to the Governing Body and we know it.The Governing Body feels we are very close to the time of the end.
Do you know what Matthew 24:14 says? Do you know how many countries are missing to reach all the inhabited earth? Only 3 countries "
Obviously I paraphrased: these are not the exact words but this is the meaning.
It is obvious that "stretching the broth", sooner or later will come the end, is not it?
So, sooner or later, "do downtown."
The problem, however, is more serious than guess or a wrong date.
The problem is to understand if "the calculations" we make are in harmony with the scriptures or are personal, human visions.
I invite you to read Jeremiah 23: 1, 16
it is too easy and superficial to say "Those who abandoned the Truth in 1975 did not really love Jehovah."
Everyone will carry his weight and this is valid for those who have left the truth but also for those who have taught falsehood.
Indeed the Scripture says that "the masters" will receive a more severe judgment.
If all that has been written in the past was written to "our instruction," we should find similarities or at least guidelines to understand if our concept of "short time left" or "generation" is correct. When Jesus spoke of the end of the system of things said "this generation will not pass at all" - Mark 13:30 For a moment, we forget everything that has been said about this writing (and the word "generation") and focus on the Jewish system. There is no doubt that the Lord spake also this fact, and this is one of the reasons why certain opponents dispute the "sign of the end times." By mentioning the armies camped and pointed stakes and many other things related to the first century (things that came true) it is clear that at least part of the sign concerned the destruction of the Jewish system, including the Temple - Matthew 24:15; Mark 13:14; Luke 21:20 So we must start from the principle that the generation that would not pass, at least in the first fulfillment of this prophecy, was the generation that would see the war and the armies camped on Jerusalem or the present generation at the time of the Lord (which on balance is always the same generation). Saying "this generation," Jesus could mean "this present day." In any case, the times do not change, because in the words of the Lord until the destruction of Jerusalem passed less than forty years, and therefore comes in that generation - see Luke 23: 28-31 In the second case, from the time when Christians saw "the armies camped" spent three and a half years. We can assume, honestly, that the Christians of the first century did much debate on the concept of "generation" which could be their or someone else's, or maybe the Lord would mean "generations"? It is not reasonable to believe. Christ's disciples understood the Lord's words exactly what they were. Even if they could not know exactly "day and time" knew that their generation was. All these "problems" would not exist if we had the humility to re-discuss the "start date" of this "incomprehensible generation". A single error always leads to other errors. The problem is not "a date wrong" but the attitude of subjection that is created towards a certain guide.
And this will lead to an adverse judgment.
What is the use of knowing "when the end comes" if our expectations are wrong?

There is a story that runs on the Internet, including Facebook channels of Jehovah's Witnesses, which mentions an overseer's speech.
Obviously I can not know if it is reality or if the speech has been "inflated".
However, there is certainly something true.
He basically says something like this: "I would like to let you know how the Governing Body feels.We work close to the Governing Body and we know it.The Governing Body feels we are very close to the time of the end.
Do you know what Matthew 24:14 says? Do you know how many countries are missing to reach all the inhabited earth? Only 3 countries "
Obviously I paraphrased: these are not the exact words but this is the meaning.
It is obvious that "stretching the broth", sooner or later will come the end, is not it?
So, sooner or later, "do downtown."
The problem, however, is more serious than guess or a wrong date.
The problem is to understand if "the calculations" we make are in harmony with the scriptures or are personal, human visions.
I invite you to read Jeremiah 23: 1, 16
it is too easy and superficial to say "Those who abandoned the Truth in 1975 did not really love Jehovah."
Everyone will carry his weight and this is valid for those who have left the truth but also for those who have taught falsehood.
Indeed the Scripture says that "the masters" will receive a more severe judgment.
If all that has been written in the past was written to "our instruction," we should find similarities or at least guidelines to understand if our concept of "short time left" or "generation" is correct. When Jesus spoke of the end of the system of things said "this generation will not pass at all" - Mark 13:30 For a moment, we forget everything that has been said about this writing (and the word "generation") and focus on the Jewish system. There is no doubt that the Lord spake also this fact, and this is one of the reasons why certain opponents dispute the "sign of the end times." By mentioning the armies camped and pointed stakes and many other things related to the first century (things that came true) it is clear that at least part of the sign concerned the destruction of the Jewish system, including the Temple - Matthew 24:15; Mark 13:14; Luke 21:20 So we must start from the principle that the generation that would not pass, at least in the first fulfillment of this prophecy, was the generation that would see the war and the armies camped on Jerusalem or the present generation at the time of the Lord (which on balance is always the same generation). Saying "this generation," Jesus could mean "this present day." In any case, the times do not change, because in the words of the Lord until the destruction of Jerusalem passed less than forty years, and therefore comes in that generation - see Luke 23: 28-31 In the second case, from the time when Christians saw "the armies camped" spent three and a half years. We can assume, honestly, that the Christians of the first century did much debate on the concept of "generation" which could be their or someone else's, or maybe the Lord would mean "generations"? It is not reasonable to believe. Christ's disciples understood the Lord's words exactly what they were. Even if they could not know exactly "day and time" knew that their generation was. All these "problems" would not exist if we had the humility to re-discuss the "start date" of this "incomprehensible generation". A single error always leads to other errors. The problem is not "a date wrong" but the attitude of subjection that is created towards a certain guide.
And this will lead to an adverse judgment.
What is the use of knowing "when the end comes" if our expectations are wrong?

In fact, dear TrueTomharley,
my observations do not intend to exalt themselves above what is still the people of God.
Each of us will be disciplined and this also includes me.
Those who are sure to be standing will not let them fall.
Many things I have understood only by the people of Jehovah and his researches.
So you do not have to believe that I have written these things because I feel more enlightened or smarter.
However, "telling the truth" also means admit that we are wrong with some things and that it is about to get a discipline.
This is in harmony with the Scriptures.

Dear TrueTomHareley,
I think you did not understand the point or maybe I did not explain it well.
Humility is well accepted and, as you rightly said, it is appreciated that the GB has admitted some mistakes.
The problem I have highlighted is that some have become idolaters, if you can not question an understanding, even if you do it with the scriptures, it means that you consider certain people above the Word of God.
Instead, since they admit that they are not inspired (and this is to be praised), you should also be able to discuss some doctrines and prophecies.
Instead, among the brothers there is the mentality that "you can not do it" because only the others have the permission of God.
Only others can have the understanding of the Word of God and if you say that it is not true and assert that it is not scriptural, it is a risk of dissociation.
For example, the GB says that the discipline we are talking about has already happened in 1919 but if I say "it is not true" and I try to argue in the light of the scriptures, what is my risk?
If you talk about so many things, what's the risk?
This is one of the reasons why we will be disciplined (not the only reason) because we have not paid attention to the Word of God.
There have been personalities and there are still.
I know the GB encourages you to study and meditate but you can not say anything that goes against their intentions even if they have changed it dozens of times.
This is a fact.
A person who wants to argue on certain intentions does not necessarily want to create a sect or a division.
A person who recovers the intentions of 1914 is not necessarily an apostate.
If I, in conscience, understood through the Bible that certain prophecies were badly interpreted (and I would like to remember that understanding a prophecy can mean death) what should I do?
The Bible, to give you an example, predicted that the preaching work would be suppressed by the king of the north (Russia) but the GB never said anything.
So should I be silent?
The Bible has foreseen that the prohibition will extend throughout the inhabited land (and hence the hopes of Brother Sanderson are miserable) and so I, who is right or wrong, should I be silent?
We must pay attention to the Bible, not to the people.
This also applies to those who "can not be questioned"
My total loyalty goes to the Word of God, not to a group of people or even to a building.
No one wants to insult or degrade anyone, but each of us should be adult enough and mature to study God's Word personally and also admit the possibility that some things that have been taught are wrong.
and these "some things" can also be vital things

You too can not be objective.
the watch tower is the instrument and not the ultimate end of worship.
The tool is useful for achieving a goal (in this case, understanding the Bible).
If the instrument becomes worshiped then we can no longer understand it.
The Bible encourages digging and looking personally - Proverbs 2: 1-5
Biblical prophecy makes us understand that God will punish his people for being idolatrous.
This may be true or it may be false.
How can we do it to understand it?
Studying the Bible.
The Bible is the only authority (try to re-establish it: the Bible is the only authority).
This instrument (the watchtower) has abided by the Bible many times, but sometimes it has used personalities and human ideas above the Bible (1975 is an example and there are others).
Who should I obey?
To the Bible.
Now you will say, "The Bible says we must listen to some men"
I say, "No, it is not so"
How can we establish it?
Studying the Bible.
Prophecy says that a certain "guide" will become dead because some have put people above the Word of God.
This may be true or it may be false.
How can we establish it?
Studying the Bible.
You are convinced that you should not "discuss" the intentions of certain people, is not it?
I tell you that the Bible, and only the Bible, has the last word.
You might find that the Bible teaches some things you do not expect.
What can I tell you?
Wait and see what's happening - Joel 1: 1-8

I have nothing to add and this conversation is closed.
Everyone should make their own assessment.
Every now and then I will write articles that I consider important in the light of the Scriptures.
Anyone who wants can read and compare with the Bible.
Anyone who does not want to, wishes for everything

Dear JW Insider,
reading your comments I understand that you are a reflective and intellectually honest person.
If the people of God had "learned something" from past mistakes, it would be normal to debate the doctrines and prophecies in the light of the Scriptures.
If the people of God had learned anything, it would be normal for public conversations now to be done and also questioning the one who is not yet "faithful and discreet slave" (as admit Watchtower of 2013).
If we had learned something we would understand that we should study the Bible personally and this includes the possibility of finding something that goes against the official intent.
Obviously, if we had learned something.
Instead, if you try to get something back, anything, you're an apostate.
You do not get into the merit.
It does not matter if the arguments support the Bible; you are an apostate and just because you are going to rediscover the intent of the "NOT faithful and discreet slave".
Do you believe, honestly, that past history is served to something?
The people of God, exactly like in the past, are destined to repeat the same mistakes because the words of GB are more important than the words of the Bible.
Pay attention to prophecies.
If you can not understand the Word of God, it means the Bible lie - Proverbs 2: 1-5
I urge you personally to be certain of these things - 2 Corinthians 13: 5

Dear JW Insider,
reading your comments I understand that you are a reflective and intellectually honest person.
If the people of God had "learned something" from past mistakes, it would be normal to debate the doctrines and prophecies in the light of the Scriptures.
If the people of God had learned anything, it would be normal for public conversations now to be done and also questioning the one who is not yet "faithful and discreet slave" (as admit Watchtower of 2013).
If we had learned something we would understand that we should study the Bible personally and this includes the possibility of finding something that goes against the official intent.
Obviously, if we had learned something.
Instead, if you try to get something back, anything, you're an apostate.
You do not get into the merit.
It does not matter if the arguments support the Bible; you are an apostate and just because you are going to rediscover the intent of the "NOT faithful and discreet slave".
Do you believe, honestly, that past history is served to something?
The people of God, exactly like in the past, are destined to repeat the same mistakes because the words of GB are more important than the words of the Bible.
Pay attention to prophecies.
If you can not understand the Word of God, it means the Bible lie - Proverbs 2: 1-5
I urge you personally to be certain of these things - 2 Corinthians 13: 5

Dear JW Insider,
reading your comments I understand that you are a reflective and intellectually honest person.
If the people of God had "learned something" from past mistakes, it would be normal to debate the doctrines and prophecies in the light of the Scriptures.
If the people of God had learned anything, it would be normal for public conversations now to be done and also questioning the one who is not yet "faithful and discreet slave" (as admit Watchtower of 2013).
If we had learned something we would understand that we should study the Bible personally and this includes the possibility of finding something that goes against the official intent.
Obviously, if we had learned something.
Instead, if you try to get something back, anything, you're an apostate.
You do not get into the merit.
It does not matter if the arguments support the Bible; you are an apostate and just because you are going to rediscover the intent of the "NOT faithful and discreet slave".
Do you believe, honestly, that past history is served to something?
The people of God, exactly like in the past, are destined to repeat the same mistakes because the words of GB are more important than the words of the Bible.
Pay attention to prophecies.
If you can not understand the Word of God, it means the Bible lie - Proverbs 2: 1-5
I urge you personally to be certain of these things - 2 Corinthians 13: 5

The Bible needs to be studied at a personal level.
If in the study of the Bible I come to understand that some teachings are wrong, I must act according to conscience.
I have dedicated myself to Jehovah and not to GB.
The Bible is not "imperfect spiritual food", it does not lend itself to rewards, corrections or "new light".
The Bible is the truth.
Obviously, I can go wrong in good faith during my Bible study. However, the Bible encourages you to study personally and ask Jehovah for help.
If the GB says something that according to my Biblical knowledge is not in harmony with the Scriptures, I will listen to my conscience. If we believe that the "truth" is the Word of God (John 17:17) then we realize that sometimes this organization has adhered more to the truth while "at other times" has less adhered to the truth. This is the organization that has taught me many beautiful, true and just things.
This organization, in its time, was surely blessed by God.
It does not mean, however, that "this organization" can not become a "chopper machine" since brothers (in the majority) are not able to do a personal study, to challenge, to question any "truth" not to be labeled as apostates.
For this reason, it will be necessary to create a distinction between those who really love the Word of God (study and seek to understand it) and those who love tranquility (who does the research in our place and tells us what to believe and do not believe).
Israel was also God's people, but to understand the will of God, "read the law book day and night."
Not simply ask the priests or the High Priest.
The priests could deflect (and are often misguided) but the Word of God remains unchanged.
We have many Biblical teachings and examples.
Many of us have become "unconscious worshipers".
Worshipers of people, "circular", the personality, the overseer; Watch Tower, Videos, and Cartoons.
Jehovah considers us personally responsible.
Pay close attention to the prophecies.
 

The Bible needs to be studied at a personal level.
If in the study of the Bible I come to understand that some teachings are wrong, I must act according to conscience.
I have dedicated myself to Jehovah and not to GB.
The Bible is not "imperfect spiritual food", it does not lend itself to rewards, corrections or "new light".
The Bible is the truth.
Obviously, I can go wrong in good faith during my Bible study. However, the Bible encourages you to study personally and ask Jehovah for help.
If the GB says something that according to my Biblical knowledge is not in harmony with the Scriptures, I will listen to my conscience. If we believe that the "truth" is the Word of God (John 17:17) then we realize that sometimes this organization has adhered more to the truth while "at other times" has less adhered to the truth. This is the organization that has taught me many beautiful, true and just things.
This organization, in its time, was surely blessed by God.
It does not mean, however, that "this organization" can not become a "chopper machine" since brothers (in the majority) are not able to do a personal study, to challenge, to question any "truth" not to be labeled as apostates.
For this reason, it will be necessary to create a distinction between those who really love the Word of God (study and seek to understand it) and those who love tranquility (who does the research in our place and tells us what to believe and do not believe).
Israel was also God's people, but to understand the will of God, "read the law book day and night."
Not simply ask the priests or the High Priest.
The priests could deflect (and are often misguided) but the Word of God remains unchanged.
We have many Biblical teachings and examples.
Many of us have become "unconscious worshipers".
Worshipers of people, "circular", the personality, the overseer; Watch Tower, Videos, and Cartoons.
Jehovah considers us personally responsible.
Pay close attention to the prophecies.
 

The Bible needs to be studied at a personal level.
If in the study of the Bible I come to understand that some teachings are wrong, I must act according to conscience.
I have dedicated myself to Jehovah and not to GB.
The Bible is not "imperfect spiritual food", it does not lend itself to rewards, corrections or "new light".
The Bible is the truth.
Obviously, I can go wrong in good faith during my Bible study. However, the Bible encourages you to study personally and ask Jehovah for help.
If the GB says something that according to my Biblical knowledge is not in harmony with the Scriptures, I will listen to my conscience. If we believe that the "truth" is the Word of God (John 17:17) then we realize that sometimes this organization has adhered more to the truth while "at other times" has less adhered to the truth. This is the organization that has taught me many beautiful, true and just things.
This organization, in its time, was surely blessed by God.
It does not mean, however, that "this organization" can not become a "chopper machine" since brothers (in the majority) are not able to do a personal study, to challenge, to question any "truth" not to be labeled as apostates.
For this reason, it will be necessary to create a distinction between those who really love the Word of God (study and seek to understand it) and those who love tranquility (who does the research in our place and tells us what to believe and do not believe).
Israel was also God's people, but to understand the will of God, "read the law book day and night."
Not simply ask the priests or the High Priest.
The priests could deflect (and are often misguided) but the Word of God remains unchanged.
We have many Biblical teachings and examples.
Many of us have become "unconscious worshipers".
Worshipers of people, "circular", the personality, the overseer; Watch Tower, Videos, and Cartoons.
Jehovah considers us personally responsible.
Pay close attention to the prophecies.
 

Regardless of the fact that I do not share much of the Governing Body's explanation, when did the time for Jerusalem's destruction approach them, they did not have to stand up and go? Did not they have to do something practical and immediately even if they were old and sick?
From what little I understood (little: I used the translator) would not it have been enough that they had faith in Jehovah?
Since Jehovah is Almighty and can protect His people in any circumstance, Christians of the first century could also decide not to leave Jerusalem, no?
Obviously there are many other things to say.
The instructions come from the Word of God (and will not come from a divine inspiration) so it is important to study the Bible to understand what we must do when approaching the Armageddon War.
But many of us believe they have understood everything and are not allowed to discuss or look.
They wait for instructions from others.

"This is speculation. How can Jehovah save only people when they are reunited at a specific point?"
Jehovah can save anyone, anytime, anywhere or situation.
I simply wrote that the gathering is a biblical teaching.
This may be true or it may be false.
Then the objection had to be: "Where is it written in the Bible that the people of God will have to gather in a specific place before Armageddon?"

"This is speculation. How can Jehovah save only people when they are reunited at a specific point?"
Jehovah can save anyone, anytime, anywhere or situation.
I simply wrote that the gathering is a biblical teaching.
This may be true or it may be false.
Then the objection had to be: "Where is it written in the Bible that the people of God will have to gather in a specific place before Armageddon?"

And what would be my ambition? Become an "apostle"? Become a member of GB? Do some disciples and create another religion?
I can also say that you are a modern "scribe" or "a Pharisee."
I can say that you are convinced of the truth and that you are convinced of having signed a covenant with death - Isaiah 28:14, 15
I can quote Revelation 3:17 and say that you are "miserable and unhappy and poor and blind and naked".
But I do not quote the Scriptures to injure a person.
Only one person is the judge of all (mine and yours): Jehovah.
The Bible is too sacred to be used as a muddy stone.
My arguments are motivated by the hope that people like you (who are convinced that they have understood everything and do not need anything) can wake up and really begin to understand what the Bible teaches.
The Bible teaches that we must warn everyone who is walking as drunk.
People are not warned because you believe they are "superior".
Do you preach because you think you are superior?
Or do you realize that it is for Jehovah's undeserved kindness that you have understood some things?
In the same way, my Bible knowledge forces me to warn my brothers before the judgment of Jehovah comes and unfortunately, instead of considering the arguments, I meet people like you.
People like you who judge, questioning the motives (you read the heart just like Jesus, is not it?) That force the scriptures to try to hurt you.
But I was prepared for this.
Soon there will be a division between Jehovah's Witnesses and Watchtower witnesses.
Soon there will create a distinction between those who love Bible over everything and those who love position, titles and awards.
These statements are not "offended" but warnings for someone to wake up, are questioned.
Since you are not able to enter the merits of the arguments but merely quoted scriptures, then you observe the events.
Observe how the people of God will be abolished all over the world.
See how the "guide" will lose and happen by Jehovah's will.
If all this will not happen, then forget these conversations and forget about me - Deuteronomy 18: 20-22
If these things happen, however, remember these conversations and help your brothers understand the will of God.
I wish you the best - Proverbs 2: 1-5; Isaiah 28: 20-22

And what would be my ambition? Become an "apostle"? Become a member of GB? Do some disciples and create another religion?
I can also say that you are a modern "scribe" or "a Pharisee."
I can say that you are convinced of the truth and that you are convinced of having signed a covenant with death - Isaiah 28:14, 15
I can quote Revelation 3:17 and say that you are "miserable and unhappy and poor and blind and naked".
But I do not quote the Scriptures to injure a person.
Only one person is the judge of all (mine and yours): Jehovah.
The Bible is too sacred to be used as a muddy stone.
My arguments are motivated by the hope that people like you (who are convinced that they have understood everything and do not need anything) can wake up and really begin to understand what the Bible teaches.
The Bible teaches that we must warn everyone who is walking as drunk.
People are not warned because you believe they are "superior".
Do you preach because you think you are superior?
Or do you realize that it is for Jehovah's undeserved kindness that you have understood some things?
In the same way, my Bible knowledge forces me to warn my brothers before the judgment of Jehovah comes and unfortunately, instead of considering the arguments, I meet people like you.
People like you who judge, questioning the motives (you read the heart just like Jesus, is not it?) That force the scriptures to try to hurt you.
But I was prepared for this.
Soon there will be a division between Jehovah's Witnesses and Watchtower witnesses.
Soon there will create a distinction between those who love Bible over everything and those who love position, titles and awards.
These statements are not "offended" but warnings for someone to wake up, are questioned.
Since you are not able to enter the merits of the arguments but merely quoted scriptures, then you observe the events.
Observe how the people of God will be abolished all over the world.
See how the "guide" will lose and happen by Jehovah's will.
If all this will not happen, then forget these conversations and forget about me - Deuteronomy 18: 20-22
If these things happen, however, remember these conversations and help your brothers understand the will of God.
I wish you the best - Proverbs 2: 1-5; Isaiah 28: 20-22

As predicted in the Scriptures, I imagine that confidence in a certain guide will gradually decrease, more and more.
So writing phrases like "Strange instructions could come" means saying "you always obey".
Moreover, "closing in the congregations" is a play of words because it does not mean "closing in the Halls of the Kingdom". If the people of God will be scattered all over the world until the last moment, no specific instruction will be given (in fact, needs and situations vary from country to country). So cite Isaiah by applying "inner rooms" to congregations can mean everything and nothing.
If you lock yourself in a Kingdom Hall and this Kingdom Hall is destroyed, it means "you did not understand the instructions."
Closure to the congregation, on the other hand, is a way to say "You have to trust in Jehovah."
If something bad happens, it means you did not trust Jehovah.
Instead, the Bible explains that the people of God will be gathered (from all over the world) to a specific spot on Earth just before Armageddon. In this case the instructions (which may concern first aid, hygiene, food sharing and other things) will be clear and simple. They will not be strange.
But this information is "apostasy" is not it?
So very few will pay attention.
Alternatively, wait for these "strange" instructions.
It will be very reasonable to think that people who are resident all over the world, with different geographies, different climates, different needs, and isolated siblings far from everyone and everyone, will receive "specific instructions".
Let's say "close in the congregations" and so we are sure we will not go wrong (if something goes wrong, the fault is what you did not trust in Jehovah).
Think about Israel's history and how it was saved from Egypt, or about Lot and how it was saved from Sodom and Gomorrah.
Think of the words "for our education" - Romans 15: 4
Reflect on the words "fully prepared" - 2 Timothy 3:16, 17
Perhaps the instructions to survive Armageddon (perhaps) are already written in the Bible.