JOHN BUTLER

Oh i didn't know Ezekiel mentioned 1919 in the writings ?
I thought I'd just leave this here :-
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Watch_Tower_Society_unfulfilled_predictions
And the GB say only they, that is those 8 men, are the 'Faithful and discreet slave ' They say that other anointed ones are not the 'faithful ... slave'.
The GB even say that some, who say they are anointed, are mentally ill. 
Don't you understand that 'truth' has not advanced through these men ?  Their predictions have not happened. 
It's not God's word that is wrong, it is these 8 men that do not have God's holy spirit to guide them. 
And before you say that the JW Org has grown so much, well so has Muslim related terrorism and other false religions. 
 

You don't think that there has always been attractive clothing for people to wear then?
You don't know that people used to make their own before mass production ?
But you sound like a frump or an Elder anyway, so you probably don't understand. 
I said the young and singe wanted to look young and single, I didn't say obscene. 
So come on then roll out the scripture that says a Brother has to wear a suit and tie and the trousers must be baggy. .
And the scripture that says a woman cannot wear properly made trousers designed for ladies. 
And then the scripture that says a women must wear a dress that comes down to her ankles and up to her neck. Oh a Burka maybe ?
You seem to have all the answers, let's hear them with scriptures of course.
 
 

@JOHN BUTLER 
Yes, yes, we are not perfect are we.

I think we should get a few points straight.
The Child Abuse / Pedophilia problem within JW Org is NOT A SMALL ONE.
It is an Earthwide problem, not just 'a few' people. It has been going on within the JW Org for many years, 50 years in Australia it seems.
For at least 20 years the GB have been collecting accusations of Child Abuse in the USA. 
Many many many of the victims have said they were told NOT TO REPORT IT TO THE POLICE OR OUTSIDE AUTHORITIES.
Many of them have said they were not believed because of the TWO WITNESS RULE.
Jesus said, 'If anyone stumbles the least of these little one it would have better it they has a millstone tied around their neck and they were thrown into the sea'. Do you believe these words of Jesus ? 
We know about Child Abuse  / PEDOPHILIA in the JW Org in  : Australia, Canada, America, the Netherlands and the UK.
I have no info' of child abuse in other JW countries, but I would think it is happening everywhere.
If ten people come forward to tell of their abuse then probably 100 more have not come forward. So we have no way of knowing how many have been abused. So this silly idea of giving a percentage means nothing.
I am blaming the GB because they make the rules, not according to scripture but according to their own preference.
If only half of the accusations are true it is still too many.
As for comparing the JW Org and or GB to, 'professionals REQUIRED BY LAW to report', that's like comparing God's organisation to Satan's world. There should be no comparison. It does not matter what those so called 'professionals' do or do not do. If you believe the GB are the 'faithful slave' then even you should expect the GB to serve Jehovah properly. 
Serving Jehovah properly would mean taking care of 'widows and orphans' 'little ones' everyone within the Christian Congregation. And that would mean keeping the Org clean and free of Pedophiles. 
In my opinion that means that EVERY ACCUSATION OF CHILD ABUSE IN EVERY COUNTRY SHOULD BE REPORTED TO THE POLICE OR AUTHORITIES. And the GB should have handed over the 20 years worth of documents to the court whether it was 'the law or not'. 
But as i say, Collateral damage. Brothers, sisters, children. All destroyed just to keep the Org looking clean.
You keep pretending I'm over emotional, if it serves your purpose, if it keeps your conscience clear. 
I'll keep distrusting the Governing Body as I know clearly in my mind they are not the 'faithful slave' they are the 'wicked slave that says the master is delaying in coming'.   

Lol i might have to cut my ? and my wifes? too... ???

No, my friend, we are focused and are on topic here, for the pieces on the chess board has not moved and nor shifted. For this is regarding the word "Naked" in the passage, be if of Jehovah's Witnesses or not, the focus of the verse is in the Bible and it is the Bible I will speak of, you can continue to bring up JWs but the very original source of the Bible still stands, and your former JW counterparts are aware to the fact of what the word means in the Greek text, to which you are putting in application the literally vs. the Bible.
Ok..... So what of John 21:7 regarding the word Naked? I see in their translation it says the following:
Then the disciple whom Jesus loved said to Peter: “It is the Lord!” Now Simon Peter, on hearing that it was the Lord, put on* his outer garment, for he was naked, and plunged into the sea.
*- Or “wrapped around himself; girded about himself.”
According to their understanding of the massage, as stated already:
the disciple whom Jesus loved: That is, the one whom Jesus especially loved. This is the fourth of five occurrences mentioning a certain disciple “whom Jesus [or “he”] loved” or “for whom Jesus had affection.” (Joh 13:23; 19:26; 20:2; 21:7, 20) It is generally believed that this disciple was the apostle John, the son of Zebedee and brother of James.—Mt 4:21; Mr 1:19; Lu 5:10; Joh 21:2; the reasons for this identification are given in the study notes on Joh 13:23; 21:20.  
naked: Or “lightly clad.” The Greek word gy·mnosʹ can have the meaning “lightly clad; in the undergarment only.”—Jas 2:15, ftn.; see study note on Mt 25:36. You spoke of being one of Jehovah's Witnesses yourself, formerly, so I ask you here what issue you take with the word Naked when the Greek Strong's matches up with what their Bible professes?
Like I said, we are focused here when it comes to the Bible, and the verse in question is in the Bible of all translations, even the JW one. I don't need to bring up the verse on Bible Hub because that was the final link to which I posted in my last response, but I can quote myself for you:
And now we have this:
Are you sure? As with all translations that have footnotes, references and the like, it tells you exactly what a word in a verse means or what the passage is in connection to, etc. When this is regarding nakedness, it can mean several things and since we know Peter is a fishermen and fishermen at the time girdled their under garments, it is no surprise.
The word "naked" has always been in scripture, mainly in this specific verse, the very reason I said, and I quote:
Go to any Bible website that gives context for such words, everyone here likes biblehub, you show yourself to be very liking of the site of which I can see on this forums, yet when Biblehub is used it is a different story - as which can be seen here to everyone even guests and elsewhere. I invite you to read, from Bible Hub, for it is, as you said it yourself, very interesting indeed.
I also pointed out this:  Strong's 1903 ἐπενδύτης > https://biblehub.com/greek/1903.htm
Here is what Biblehub had to say which is identical to what your former faith reads, for perhaps this will ring some bells for one who was formerly of Jehovah's Witnesses:
 
In understanding the views and mind of Jehovah's Witnesses, their own religious leaders encourage them to do research in what the Bible says (you should know this, how this this slip from your radar), for if they didn't expect or have known no manuscript(s) information to be learnt by those of their community and or evidence to such then in God's name would they even be put on their website, thus they make available to the public?
To make matters even worse for you, on your part, this same information is scattered all over the internet, clearly not everything is bad on the internet when you have those who are true to themselves who speak but, mainly in the light of Biblical Theology, those even learning themselves.
That being said, I stated before, to JTR and others that the Jehovah's Witnesses are sitting at 8.45 million adherents (source), possibly, 8.5 million and they are growing fast for a minority faith community while on the other side of the spectrum mainstream Christianity is on a heavy decline and is being surpassed rapidly by Islam and I read somewhere Judaism is in the mix.
And that is their faith group alone, the numbers are far more bigger when you include study converts of JWs which is around like 21 million+ I would have to double check statistics in religion again for the numbers can change.
Other than that, back to focus regarding the verse in the Gospel of John for I will not let this glass of water spill over like elsewhere.
Now, Christians are suppose to make research and learn, for the Bible does speak about taking in knowledge of the Christ and his God, John 17:3 and ALL references, even outlined ones, being clear or what was said by Peter himself regarding accurate knowledge or perhaps Paul, I know you read things regarding Paul and his works; just as the Christ read and observe the law and learn about His God regarding the Law, we should read and research the Word daily to take in knowledge of God, of Jesus, of the Kingdom, the teachings of the Church and so forth, research is not a bad thing, for it keeps your the spiritual mind and body whole and strong.
The English Bible adheres to manuscripts (check out Biblehub for it is indeed interesting), naked in the Greek text can be something entirely different in the English dictionary, just like what was states on Bible Hub regarding the word naked to today's language vs. that in the Scriptures.
So comparing the 2 will not help you with your resolve.
It's no idea and for you to say such only proves the point further that you truly do not read the word for context and or understanding, you do not need a JW to hold your hand to gain biblical context, it is Biblical Fact, the fact you are still remain ignorant to manuscript evidence of the oldest sources we have only shows that you defeated yourself here with this one verse, you yourself even made it known, which can be accessible on Biblehub, as with the another  interesting verse where you most likely overwhelmed with the truth, like I said, why is it now something different with you, Butler? Biblehub is right there, and I know you have access to it, you revealed such before.
Go do the research because if you read the Bible, best for you to understand it because if you lack mainly in something so elementary and minor, how can you teach the Word if you do not understand it yourself, even going as far as to assume said word is identical to the English word when the Strong's, in Greek mind you, shows you the references and occurrences of that one word? For if you do not accept truth of this matter, you will not be able to teach the elderly, other adults and or children, not even toddlers, for even they know everything has context when they read something as simple as Dr. Seuss's Cat in the Hat or Green Eggs and Ham.
I take the words of our church fathers and the Bible, I do not take your understanding for you reveal your own word to be of what this topic is about, Traditions of Men, in this sense, you display the obvious man's understanding here.
Do the research and then return here or simply remain silent as the truth stares you in the face, furthermore, do not speak of something you are still unaware of, for as Jesus used a child in his example to his disciples, we are to learn, we are to apply - you, must do the same.
That being said everything explained to you cannot be proven wrong, and the Bible has been used against you quite easily, even the source of the Bible itself and the evidence and Strong's we have in this day and age.
Therefore it can be said here, the one who mostly makes the attempt to speak of Traditions of Men, is most definitely the very one to be practicing Traditions of Men, and it is obvious and clear.
The truth has been professed to you, do what you will, for the truth isn't for everyone and sometimes the truth is too much to handle for it is that great. You have been burned, and rinsed.

How do you know this to be true? Because they told you it was? 

But is this God's rules or MAN'S ?

I agree with modesty but not with the 'traditions of men'. 
The suit and tie is from the world isn't it ? So when it suits the GB to follow the world then it's ok is it ? 
If people cannot see beyond clothing then they have poor judgement. 

Jesus said the Pharisees followed the 'Traditions of Men'. Surely you know and understand that much ?
THE GB seem to have given themselves the title 'Faithful and discreet slave'. However there are many things that would prove otherwise. But that would be going off topic, which I constantly get told of about.
You have quoted scripture to show that the GB are the boss. However there are scriptures which tell the 'leaders' ' not to lord it over the congregation'. 
I'm sure anyone can find a scripture to suit their own needs. 
One other point on the clothing of brothers and sisters.  Assemblies and conventions are where the young ones / single ones go to find a marriage mate. Well they are not supposed to be looking 'in the world', so it has to be at the conventions. Not everyone wants someone from their own congregation. 
Hence the young and single want to look like young and single and who can blame them. Just because the GB are old frumps doesn't mean everyone has to be... And just because you don't like something doesn't mean everyone has to dislike it. 
As I've said before, Jesus said 'Remove the rafter from your own eye before trying to remove the straw from your brother's eye'. 

I think this is the crux of the matter.
In an Engineering Office, you know when a client's project has been totally screwed up and gone over budget ... when management starts stressing the dress code of suits and ties for all employees ... as if that will impress  an over billed client that the Engineering Firm's management  are competent.
This is based on the idea that the client is SO STUPID that they will think clowns stop being clowns because they have changed costumes.
I was working on a project in Cincinnati, Ohio ... 945 people in two large four-story buildings ... when the client we were doing work for locally and all the way to China, got fed up with TRYING to be taken for a fool, and fired our firm.  
In 30 days it went from 945 people to less than 30 people, and within a year they had to close the office.
Everybody in the office knew what the problem really was ... EXCEPT MANAGEMENT.

@Space Merchant  True Christian JW's are supposed to 'quit being fashioned after this system of things' and put away national identities and embrace the JW culture above all.
There is NO place for such nationalistic pride within the JW community. But that is for another discussion.
Meanwhile... no skirts above the knee for sisters!!!
AND while we are at it.... those tight pants... FORBIDDEN!!!
"You must be perfect". or else.... sisters will gossip about you as in the illustration above.
Welcome to the mentally warped world of JW fashion and life. Hypocrisy at its best.

@Jack Ryan You do realize the cultural and dress of those in Spain right? But hey, not everyone knows the cultural of such persons, for it is no surprise people in the West do not know.
What they are wearing is Traditional Clothing in Spain. The woman, in the picture, are wearing a Spanish Feria Dress (also similar and or related to the Andalusian dress), it is not a tight dress, for it is fitted and is of an agreeable size with the wearer, furthermore, it should occur to you is those conventions held by Jehovah's Witnesses, mind you international, consist of them and guests, i.e. anyone who studies with them and or tags along, friend, relative and so forth.
The dresses used by Spaniard women and or anyone affiliated with their culture tends to use such dresses for festivals and or other gatherings, at times, more associated with anything in relation with flamenco, Music Genre/Style, mind you, most it is a lot of guitar playing with a hint of Spanish sounds and instruments that differ from music found in the US, therefore, you can not only feel, but hear the culture.
The man is wearing something in relation to the traditional clothing referred to as Traje De Chulapo (Traje De Chulapa for women). It isn't tight, it is pretty loose when wearing it.
The culture of origin and or worn: Madrid/Andalusia/Spain
That being said, you cannot be totally blind to people of different backgrounds and or culture, Ryan, it isn't too surprising as men wearing kilts (not called man-skirts) to similar events, as already mentioned to Srecko Sostar a while back.

I agree with modesty but not with the 'traditions of men'. 
The suit and tie is from the world isn't it ? So when it suits the GB to follow the world then it's ok is it ? 
If people cannot see beyond clothing then they have poor judgement. 

Yes one thing that I've always considered wrong (but who am i to judge) is that all men are supposed to dress in 'Western style fashion'. No not Wild west fashion. And at assemblies in Twickenham UK, on the last day of the assembly,  some overseas bros and sis are 'allowed' to walk around the 'arena' in their 'native costumes'. Why shouldn't people be allowed to wear the clothes they would normally wear in their own countries, as long as it's decent of course, all the time. 

Repost does not equal endorsement.
This Instagram poster is followed by over 10,000 JW's

Serious made me choke.....❌

Oh well, as long what inwear and my wife wears is decent enough im happy with it, if others disapproves thats their problem. Lol

Yes one thing that I've always considered wrong (but who am i to judge) is that all men are supposed to dress in 'Western style fashion'. No not Wild west fashion. And at assemblies in Twickenham UK, on the last day of the assembly,  some overseas bros and sis are 'allowed' to walk around the 'arena' in their 'native costumes'. Why shouldn't people be allowed to wear the clothes they would normally wear in their own countries, as long as it's decent of course, all the time. 

In purpose to avoid endless arguing and imposing some people attitudes on what is Christian acceptable dress and what is not, about Fashion and Clothes, God created naked people  ;))))
Are you ready for a New World and this kind of Fashion style? :)))

Have you not read your bible. did not the Pharisees 'clean the outside of the bowl or cup and not the inside'.
Have you no understanding of how Satan works ?  
Keeping the child Abuse quiet and within the '4 walls' of the Org give the false impression that the Org is 'clean and safe'. 
There is also the possibility that those at the top of the 'tree' may be deeply involved in such abuse. The GB itself, some of them, may be 'on file' as being involved in such things. Not a direct accusation but a possibility. If not then why are they sooooo keen to withhold the information from the courts ? 

I almost cried when I read your comment here. In fact I am crying now. Thank you for your understanding of such things.
Warmest Christian love, John 

I don't think has to do much about fashion modesty but more what the brothers are a custom to... i assume the brothers are used to only wearing the old big style suits and i presume they see anything out of the normal wrong.
i personally don't see much wrong wearing either suits is like wearing either a skinny tie or wide old style tie.
I have both types of suits, but i think skinny suits can be modest too as long as they are not too extreme.
Anyways my honest opinion.