Jump to content

Topic Summary

Created

Last Reply

Replies

Views

Jack Ryan -
Space Merchant -
138
3691

Top Posters


Recommended Posts

8gi1bxcg09p11.jpg

Source:

    Hello guest!

So having nice hair and a good outfit is apparently bad? I see people dress like this at the convention all the time lol

Wild colored socks.

Anthony Morris III actually wasn’t saying thereÂ’s anything wrong with that. He said that sock color was a matter of taste, and that he thought some of these young brothers with brightly colored socks were demonstrating poor taste, but it wasnÂ’t immodest.

- Anthony Morris III - Governing Body member speaking at the US Branch Visit on November 8, 2014 

Tight Pants

(tight pants on the young brothers who the worldly gay designers are drooling over at 27:35)

“…and the other one that needs addressing is for these young fellows, cause the older ones aren’t doing much of it, thankfully, uhhh, it’s the metrosexual look. We’ve addressed that in the past, we’ve said things about it, but what’s happened now has really caught on more. 

Now the metrosexual look, that’s the tight suit jacket and the tight pants, better known as ‘tight pants’. (laughter) And, uh, they are tight, I mean tight all the way down to the ankles. And, that is not modest brothers. No. It’s not appropriate. It’s not sound of mind. 

And I was proud of one Circuit Overseer who told me this past summer at one of the Intl. Conventions, 'cuz he brought it up, one of these fellows, he shows up for his Circuit Overseer’s visit and wants to go out in the ministry work with him, door-to-door, he’s wearing 'tight pants’. And the Circuit Overseer was man enough, spiritual man enough to say, 'No. I’m not going door-to-door with you. Not with that dress on. Inappropriate.' 

So a lot to think about and you elders out there listening in, and be kind now, we always want to try to imitate Christ Jesus. You be spiritual man enough to tell these young fellows 'You don’t go out in the ministry looking like that. Not in this organization.' 
And frankly I have asked sister after sister, 'You know, what do you think of this? Do you find that appealing, attractive? You know, I’m just curious, 'cause I’m not a woman. Ahhh.’ (laughter) And you know what, I’ve not found one yet that thought they look good. (Garbled, poor audio quality for a couple seconds.) 

And this is a fact, the homosexuals that are designing these clothes, they like you in tight pants. (Huge laughter) Not, spiritual people. So, it’s something to consider for Christian grooming. Is it appropriate? Is it modest? Does it display soundness of mind? If not, do something about it.”

- Anthony Morris III - Governing Body member speaking at the US Branch Visit on November 8, 2014 

Spanx

“…what it is is this Spanx, this skin-tight stuff they wear. Now, are you sisters wearing this in the ministry? No. I can’t say that I’ve ever seen that. But when they exercise, they leave their home and they’re jogging in this stuff? 

Look at the verse. Is that appropriate to wear skin-tight Spanx or whatever they call them? It’s not modest and it’s certainly not sound of mind. It’s really inappropriate. There’s nothing else to say about it. Now you want to be in your home or your room and wear that stuff, that’s your business. But don’t go out in public like that and say you worship the True God. ‘I’m just trying to stay in shape’. (laughter) Inappropriate.”

- Anthony Morris III - Governing Body member speaking at the US Branch Visit on November 8, 2014

See also:

Did I miss anything important?

Share this post


Link to post

In the first illustration:

Dude's hair is nice! It's fashionable, therefore not acceptable. You have to dress like your mother/father otherwise you're too worldly

Shirt sleeves rolled up.. way way too casual. Also the girl has her upper arms exposed.

I notice how the women dressed "appropriately" are wearing layers and pleats to hide their shape. It really is seen as sinful just to be a normal woman, huh?

Yep these illustrations are put there to set standards.

Share this post


Link to post

@Jack Ryan You do realize the cultural and dress of those in Spain right? But hey, not everyone knows the cultural of such persons, for it is no surprise people in the West do not know.

What they are wearing is Traditional Clothing in Spain. The woman, in the picture, are wearing a Spanish Feria Dress (also similar and or related to the Andalusian dress), it is not a tight dress, for it is fitted and is of an agreeable size with the wearer, furthermore, it should occur to you is those conventions held by Jehovah's Witnesses, mind you international, consist of them and guests, i.e. anyone who studies with them and or tags along, friend, relative and so forth.

The dresses used by Spaniard women and or anyone affiliated with their culture tends to use such dresses for festivals and or other gatherings, at times, more associated with anything in relation with flamenco, Music Genre/Style, mind you, most it is a lot of guitar playing with a hint of Spanish sounds and instruments that differ from music found in the US, therefore, you can not only feel, but hear the culture.

The man is wearing something in relation to the traditional clothing referred to as Traje De Chulapo (Traje De Chulapa for women). It isn't tight, it is pretty loose when wearing it.

The culture of origin and or worn: Madrid/Andalusia/Spain

That being said, you cannot be totally blind to people of different backgrounds and or culture, Ryan, it isn't too surprising as men wearing kilts (not called man-skirts) to similar events, as already mentioned to Srecko Sostar a while back.

Share this post


Link to post

@Space Merchant  True Christian JW's are supposed to 'quit being fashioned after this system of things' and put away national identities and embrace the JW culture above all.

There is NO place for such nationalistic pride within the JW community. But that is for another discussion.

Meanwhile... no skirts above the knee for sisters!!!

AND while we are at it.... those tight pants... FORBIDDEN!!!

"You must be perfect". or else.... sisters will gossip about you as in the illustration above.

Welcome to the mentally warped world of JW fashion and life. Hypocrisy at its best.

Share this post


Link to post
2 hours ago, Jack Ryan said:

@Space Merchant  True Christian JW's are supposed to 'quit being fashioned after this system of things' and put away national identities and embrace the JW culture above all.

There is NO place for such nationalistic pride within the JW community. But that is for another discussion.

Meanwhile... no skirts above the knee for sisters!!!

AND while we are at it.... those tight pants... FORBIDDEN!!!

"You must be perfect". or else.... sisters will gossip about you as in the illustration above.

Welcome to the mentally warped world of JW fashion and life. Hypocrisy at its best.

Dresses of one's cultural background isn't some extreme fashion sense, it isn't even view as such binded to that culture and so forth and you do not have to share the view of the Jehovah's Witnesses to realize this, for it is obvious, therefore it isn't something of a nationality identity, it is something embedded in the people itself, examples being in Africa, you would see Africans don garbs and or robes affiliated with their place of origin, the same goes for parts of Asia, The Middle East, parts of the EU, etc, for it is no different from men/women wearing a suit/dress in the Americas, but it would seem Americans do not know any better and or take into account things outside and overseas.

It isn't of national pride, granted of what I have already stated. Unless to can show me, anywhere that such is of national pride regarding someone being born into said culture and so forth, but that information will and forever will be  unfounded with you.

No one is perfect, if we were perfect, we wouldn't be born sinners, we wouldn't be succumbing of death and sickness and there would be a fallen angel who is like a beast ruling this world as we speak. Or else? No church goer will go about speaking gossip of a woman who is from Africa and dresses in a way because she is from Africa.

As for gossip, the only thing said is how how so and so posed or as is stated "sexy pose" aka "hand(s) on hip", nothing is said about the dress expect for the fact that such a dress of Spain is not taken likely elsewhere outside of it's place of origin, perhaps a woman dressed this way who roams about New York will be looked at funny and talked about but in Spain it is common - this goes for any tradition garb/dress/outfit that comes from their place of origin, for instance, a Kibou Garb will draw attention in the US, even gossip, but not in Japan, furthermore, I even stated, and you also, this was an International Convention, meaning JWs, and guests are all included here. Anything international, someone can come as a Pikachu and not be talked about, yet roaming about as a Pikachu in the states will result in reactions and unnecessary attention and gossip.

No, it is only hypocrisy if you lack in the culture and history of others, assuming everything is of national pride when no such thing is the case. People, mainly the Spaniards only where such is due to where they are from, where they are born, they do not express pride here, they only show of who they are and hat cultural background they are from. But by all means, Ryan, I'd like to see you attempt to inform these people to dress in a normal suit and or dress as is done in America, perhaps do the same in Africa and Japan, surely they will not be too pleased.

That being said, one being prideful would be obvious, they'd put themselves front and center and are not of any religious following and or in connection to such. As for you, you show the mentality of those who are mad and bad in a  crusade regarding cultural appropriation, only this time, the Religion Edition.

Open your eyes man and learn these things, this is coming from a guy who is aware of such because he himself [me] is also binded by culture and having a background strongly connected to this culture, and obvious not showing any national pride.

Share this post


Link to post

@Jack Ryan  You are being unreasonable.

Try conforming to our higher JW standards and you too will be happy again too.

You will lose all desire to look fashionable. That is a worldly quality anyway.

What Jehovah wants from even beautiful women is to be of a quiet and mild spirit and to dress modestly. 

Share this post


Link to post
16 hours ago, The Librarian said:

@Jack Ryan  You are being unreasonable.

Try conforming to our higher JW standards and you too will be happy again too.

You will lose all desire to look fashionable. That is a worldly quality anyway.

What Jehovah wants from even beautiful women is to be of a quiet and mild spirit and to dress modestly. 

Are but who's choice of modesty ? Oh of course the GB's and the Elders.  

Maybe what Jehovah wants of every one is a bit of individuality.    

Are I've just noticed you say 'JW' standards, not God's standards. 

Share this post


Link to post

Perhaps I have missed something ... but I thought everybody in this picture was dressed appropriately ... even though the Brother in the Tan suit looked afraid he was about to become a hand puppet.

 

Screenshot_20180930-204938.jpg.5c6e74d9ccede62b6d438ddfea03b59f.jpg

The Brother in the above picture, on the left with the pale blue shirt has his shirt sleeves partially rolled up ... is that it?

Is that the problem?

 

 

Share this post


Link to post

Should we make the Brothers and Sisters who won the genetic lottery, the ones who are handsome and beautiful, beat themselves in the face with a steel rod until they resemble the rest of us ... and the ones who CAN wear standard body type attractive clothing wear frumpy and dumpy clothing instead?

They ALREADY want the children's ice-cream money .... and use cartoons to get it!

What's next?

Share this post


Link to post
19 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

Perhaps I have missed something ... but I thought everybody in this picture was dressed appropriately ... even though the Brother in the Tan suit looked afraid he was about to become a hand puppet.

 

Screenshot_20180930-204938.jpg.5c6e74d9ccede62b6d438ddfea03b59f.jpg

The Brother in the above picture, on the left with the pale blue shirt has his shirt sleeves partially rolled up ... is that it?

Is that the problem?

 

 

I do not see a problem here, granted it is easy to tell the depiction of where these individuals are, could be in certain areas in the EU and the majority, the US, granted the image was most likely made there.

No indication of anyone being in Spain, Africa, or perhaps Scotland.

On 9/30/2018 at 12:03 AM, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

This is especially true with Sisters that are so ugly they would scare paint off a dump truck.

What some may see as ugly may be seen as something of gold and beauty to someone else.

That being said in terms of appearance, I have been compared to in likeness some guy called [nerd/clown] Xavier Woods, and have been called that even I do not even look like the guy.

220px-Xavier_Woods_In_March_2015.jpg

 

But hey, it is what it is.

Share this post


Link to post
19 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

Are but who's choice of modesty ? Oh of course the GB's and the Elders.  

Maybe what Jehovah wants of every one is a bit of individuality.    

Are I've just noticed you say 'JW' standards, not God's standards. 

The Bible speaks about modesty and such is followed by all persons with different backgrounds, cultures, etc. Not everyone who lives in Africa, or Span will be 100% identical to such ones like Americans in terms of food, clothing and or other.

The only people who take issue with such things are those who have the mentality of Yale University Students who are dubbed as Snowflakes.

Other than that the point made by Librarian is there, nothing really is notable unless you make it seem this way.

Share this post


Link to post
16 minutes ago, Space Merchant said:

The Bible speaks about modesty and such is followed by all persons with different backgrounds, cultures, etc. Not everyone who lives in Africa, or Span will be 100% identical to such ones like Americans in terms of food, clothing and or other.

The only people who take issue with such things are those who have the mentality of Yale University Students who are dubbed as Snowflakes.

Other than that the point made by Librarian is there, nothing really is notable unless you make it seem this way.

Well it seems the Governing Body like to talk about 'tight pants' 'homosexuality' and 'masterbation with a pillow'.

Um, a bit worrying i think. 

Share this post


Link to post
10 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

Well it seems the Governing Body like to talk about 'tight pants' 'homosexuality' and 'masterbation with a pillow'.

Um, a bit worrying i think. 

That is because a Christian, regardless of where they are should not be wearing something that is immodest at all, mainly within a church whereas the very thing of the church is pure worship, you said you read the Bible, understand the difference between immodest and modest, I need not have to bring Hebrew and Greek Strong's for something that is practically simple to understand. This also goes for Evangelism and or anything pertaining to the missionary preaching of the Messianic Age and Good News Gospel, appropriate attire is necessary for even to those you preach the gospel to will also be viewing you and your attire, for with God, cleanliness and to be proper is a must. As for as I am concern, there are others who are vocal about this, as well as us in the Unitarian (P.E.o.J.B) who also view this too, as with the women of Christ an their following, who take issue with tight clothing also, thus viewing it as immodest.

In the words of those who are vocal about this issue, and I quote: Tight, clinging attire is as immodest as skimpy attire because the woman’s figure is emphasized and accented, and the man’s attention is directed to that which is forbidden outside of marriage. Men are strongly influenced sexually by the eye-gate and are attracted to the woman’s curves. The immodest clothing industry understands these things and strives to dress women seductively rather than modestly. It is important to understand that tight, form-fitting clothes can be just as sexually disturbing to a man as skimpy clothes.

You tell me Butler. If Jesus was walking on this modern day and age to see the churches for he is the head of the church, you think he, a pure and sinless man, who be accepting of immodest;y dressed ones in the house of his Father? For he need not think twice to throw out merchants who make his Father's Temple a house of commerce, something of which even churches do today to which they teach and believe there is no issue. Well my friend, there is an issue, and it is no difference from a man in Peter Pan-sque tights who is in the church, or a woman who is wearing sexual disturbing attire tight enough to the point it may tear, or perhaps something that is way to short and clearly uncomfortable.

Tight pants is something that is professed by charismatic preachers thinking such is normal and on the health issue of things, for males, tight pants is something that kills one's sperm count or perhaps women wearing tight clothing in the church to a point as to their under garments or body parts is borderline visible, immodest. And speaking of women, the very reason Gang-Stalkers to some churches is because they are able to see such ones in tight clothing, other times even take pictures of so and so and post it online for ill purposes, and such things you do not want to know that will make your stomach turn counterclockwise wise.

That being said, the common attire by those in religious institutions is a modest dress and for men, a suit that is of decent size and fits him comfortably, for if someone is a member of the church, they most adhere to the modesty even in terms of dress code.

If you want to where tight clothing to reveal thyself to others in such a manner, you have the night clubs for that, not God's House.

10 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

'homosexuality' and 'masterbation with a pillow'.

I have already spoken of homosexuality and what I have seen mainly regarding children in that crowd by means of S.o.G and others, some of which I cannot post here for it is that bad.

As for masturbation [with a pillow - something not to be joked about, granted if you took the time to read stories from those afflicted with sexual immortality; or Otakus] I gave Srecko links to the Christian community that is Anti-Masturbation. It is not a surprise a religious faith will speak of that, but to be brief, since you like throwing things from other topics here, I will give you a link, I'll make it larger for you so you can see it and share the pillow talk stuff there, you think JWs speak of this only, but such is spoken of here too and they will not take lightly to jokes - I already gave someone there your response from the other thread and he was "heated and angered" and you do not want to know what that Christian has to say, of you and Srecko, perhaps another time I will give you the screenshot: 

    Hello guest!

That being said, Christians come from all parts of the world and they all dress differently, the real Christians, although different by race, nation and culture, are aware of what modesty is and what such means to the House of God, we do not see anyone seeking pride for their country, as Ryan had stated, for the only thing such ones care about is doing what is needed regarding the early church teachings and of the Bible and of God, and of His Christ.

No one here should like a snowflake about such an issue, and I am pretty sure no one here is an extreme Yale Student, acting like one regarding culture will end badly for such ones.

Share this post


Link to post

@Jack Ryan I'm still waiting for that nationalistic pride response. My people wear robes to the temple, in no way shape or form they are expressing nationalistic pride when all they are doing is wanting to serve God, as is with Christians in other parts of the globe who are takes the time to know the difference between modest and immodest.

So far, a very, very brief summary of the discussion: Christian Spaniards who wear clothing and or attire that is a reflection of their culture. No nationalistic pride being expressed here for their sole purpose is to worship God within their faith community, even invite visitors an the only thing that was said, is someone doing a sexy pose (hand on hip).

Unless it is the sexy pose that is rustling your jimmies because although the pose was kind of out of line, I see no pridefulness here.

Share this post


Link to post
On 9/29/2018 at 11:52 PM, The Librarian said:

@Jack Ryan  You are being unreasonable.

Try conforming to our higher JW standards and you too will be happy again too.

You will lose all desire to look fashionable. That is a worldly quality anyway.

What Jehovah wants from even beautiful women is to be of a quiet and mild spirit and to dress modestly. 

‘People who think the most bold of thoughts have no difficulty conforming to the outward norms of society.’  Nathaniel Hawthorne 

Nobody thinks thoughts more bold than Jehovah’s Witnesses.

He didn’t say it but I think the converse is also true: Those who declare their independence over such small matters are usually the most conformist of all on large ones.

Share this post


Link to post
5 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

‘People who think the most bold of thoughts have no difficulty conforming to the outward norms of society.Â’  Nathaniel Hawthorne 

Nobody thinks thoughts more bold than JehovahÂ’s Witnesses.

He didnÂ’t say it but I think the converse is also true: Those who declare their independence over such small matters are usually the most conformist of all on large ones.

Not me Tom I'm a rebel.  Always have been. :) I think of Nathanael "Can anything good come out of Nazareth ? " He must have been a bit if a rebel.

As for JW's thinking bold thoughts, that's a laugh. JW's are not allowed to think, they just follow orders the same way as soldiers or police officers. 

Orders come from HQ, GB, via Elders. ' You must obey, or be, exterminated exterminated exterminated. 

The whole thing is so funny. That is why JW's are not allowed to talk to any one that leaves the Org, because the one that has left is free to ask questions but those that remain are not. The GB doesn't want JW's to actually start thinking. 

Share this post


Link to post
49 minutes ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

As for JW's thinking bold thoughts, that's a laugh. JW's are not allowed to think, they just follow orders the same way as soldiers or police officers. 

 Orders come from HQ, GB, via Elders. ' You must obey, or be, exterminated exterminated exterminated. 

When they offer to release you from the concentration camp if you will but renounce your faith and you tell them no, it means you are bold.

it also means you are unafraid of actual extermination, let alone the silly things that you whine on about.

Don’t go there, John. They are bold. Someday you might learn from them.

Share this post


Link to post
25 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

When they offer to release you from the concentration camp if you will but renounce your faith and you tell them no, it means you are bold.

it also means you are unafraid of actual extermination, let alone the silly things that you whine on about.

Don’t go there, John. They are bold. Someday you might learn from them.

Now you are being more precise. Your previous comment was more general. 

You are using a type of emotional blackmail to try to prove a point which is off topic anyway. 

JW Dress Rules is the topic, not, being in a concentration camp. 

Share this post


Link to post
1 hour ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

JW Dress Rules is the topic, not, being in a concentration camp. 

Even there they were not heedless of personal appearance, and it’s not because they were terrified of the GB, either.

Share this post


Link to post
1 hour ago, TrueTomHarley said:

Even there they were not heedless of personal appearance, and it’s not because they were terrified of the GB, either.

Who inspected the tightness of their trousers ?  No one. 

Who asked them if they masterbated and told them not to ? No one.

There were more important issues then. 

It seems as if there are no really important issues now, so the GB are making things up to keep themselves  busy. 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
1 hour ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

It seems as if there are no really important issues now, so the GB are making things up to keep themselves  busy. 

The GB are at LEAST totally aware of that.

They are TOTALLY DESTROYING their credibility on every subject imaginable.

THAT'S why shunning forbids people to talk to each other.

Share this post


Link to post
4 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

Who inspected the tightness of their trousers ?  No one. 

Who asked them if they masterbated and told them not to ? No one.

There were more important issues then. 

I almost expect a certain chainsaw character to post a cartoon that he thinks is hilarious about these things happening in that setting, until the senior one of them cautions that HQ might find out. 

It would be a new low for him, but only by a matter of degree. 

Share this post


Link to post
8 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

JW Dress Rules is the topic, not, being in a concentration camp. 

If according to you we must adhere to the topic, then why in God's name would you mention this here in this same thread about dress code?

  On 10/1/2018 at 12:30 PM, JOHN BUTLER said:

'homosexuality' and 'masterbation with a pillow'.

So if you have to stop someone, in this case, @TrueTomHarley, check thyself before ye wreck'th thyself because you hit that same road yourself in this sense, in the same topic. The only reason I made response was due to what is said, hence the mention of pillows, take it up with the anti-masturbation Christian community, because I told you before, what you said about masturbation, they didn't take kindly to it, I'd post the comments regarding that, but this is of dress code and such.

That being said, back on task here, every culture and or group of people have their own clothing that makes up of where they are from. Regardless, they still hit the modest dress code, as it is not too far off from that in the US and or elsewhere, for even for them, something that is immodest, they will take issue with it.

As last time I checked, also, you do not see people wear suit and ties in a shanty town or rural village, the major will most likely stick to modest clothing in their village.

Also I haven't see anywhere of a response from Ryan regarding Nationalistic Pride. This, of which was claimed - has yet to be seen.

Share this post


Link to post
12 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

If according to you we must adhere to the topic, then why in God's name would you mention this here in this same thread about dress code?

 Â On 10/1/2018 at 12:30 PM, JOHN BUTLER said:

'homosexuality' and 'masterbation with a pillow'.?

So if you have to stop someone, in this case, @TrueTomHarley, check thyself before ye wreck'th thyself because you hit that same road yourself in this sense, in the same topic. The only reason I made response was due to what is said, hence the mention of pillows, take it up with the anti-masturbation Christian community, because I told you before, what you said about masturbation, they didn't take kindly to it, I'd post the comments regarding that, but this is of dress code and such.

That being said, back on task here, every culture and or group of people have their own clothing that makes up of where they are from. Regardless, they still hit the modest dress code, as it is not too far off from that in the US and or elsewhere, for even for them, something that is immodest, they will take issue with it.

As last time I checked, also, you do not see people wear suit and ties in a shanty town or rural village, the major will most likely stick to modest clothing in their village.

Also I haven't see anywhere of a response from Ryan regarding Nationalistic Pride. This, of which was claimed - has yet to be seen.

502015914_univ_pnr_lg.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
6 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

    Hello guest!

A typical copy/saved screen straight off the website of Jehovah’s Witnesses to prove the whole suit and tie thing? I can tell you this, during your absence in July, I have been to Africa and I will educate you on the way people dress there and so forth.

You can literally go to the website and wait a few seconds (or click the arrow), this same image appears on their little slideshow. It should occur to you that JWs (well you use to be one so how did that one slip through the cracks) are Evangelist, preachers, this guy clearly traveled to the farmland village and does not live there.

@TrueTomHarley He pulled the image directly from the jw.org site's slideshow.... Anyone who pulls something from a main page that fast and easily is a classic move, if I may add.

Africans in the city, which is not a village or shanty town as I said, there are those who take up items sent to Africa referred to as the Mitumba, the term in Swahili which literally meaning bundles, and this is usually referred  to plastic-wrapped packages containing used clothing donated by people in wealthy countries, moreover, the term is also applied to the clothing that arrives in these bundles, I’ll even post you an image below so you can understand and see for yourself, such as yourself who has most likely never been to Africa.

file-576639c5cc413.jpg

Mitumba.jpg

Like I said, you do not see such things such as suits and tie wearing persons in villages and shanty towns, for Mitumba is usually received in cities, for example, Tanzanian city of Dar es Salaam and several other cities, that are obviously not shanty towns or villages, as I have said already – unless, Mr. Butler, you have something more to share of suits and ties being in high use in villages and shanty towns, I am all ears and eyes. In addition, Mitumba are normally used and or seen worn by people in interior parts of Africa, not villages, not shanty towns.

Most of the Mitumba originates in developed countries, like the United States, often comes from non-profit organizations, such as The Salvation Army and or anything of the like, granted Mitumba is often in high quantities when received by these non-profits.

As for my experience, no one in farmlands and or such villages wear suit an ties, granted in the type of work they endure on a daily basis and or daily activities. Those who do live within the city and often travels through villages and or these small areas in parts of Africa, an example would be when I was in Kampala, there is people having fashionable things, however when you go to Nansana, you see very, very little, and nowhere in that area people is wearing a suit and tie whenever they have ceremonies and the like there, they use their traditional African attire – no one wore a suit and tie, as for me, I was wearing an African Mud-Cloth Poncho, it is not a suit an tie attire at all.

If you have no idea what that is, IÂ’ll show you an image:

images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQcqE0S_RpuV_Zqf_LY3yw

C-M200_original.jpg

If you must know, I wore this when traveling and to the wedding I went to while I was there, when I ran into people who wanted to know what the Bible is, I was wearing a casual, but loose dress shirt and black pants, with sandals.

So I’ll ask you since I won’t get an answer from Ryan, I want you to show me exactly people in shanty towns and or villages, you can throw in the farmlands and rural places outside of the city as to where someone in said country is sporting a suit and tie, let’s throw in bowties also for fun. Otherwise the response still stands: As last time I checked, also, you do not see people wear suit and ties in a shanty town or rural village, the major will most likely stick to modest clothing in their village.

But what can be said is passerbys usually come in from the city, by foot, by bike and or vehicle ride, such ones do not live in these small rural villages and or farmlands.

6 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

OK not a suit but it is 'White man's clothing' 'Western culture' or what ever you want to name it. 

Then that should have been spoken of from the very beginning, your glass of water tipped over on to yourself, Butler.

Tell me something I don't know. Because of non-profit organizations within western societies that sell used clothes to for-profit in Africa, Mitumba is refereed to as White Man's clothes, there is a slang term for it, but it is not a good one, moreover, it is very common in parts of Africa, but it is solely in prominent use in the cities. 

As for suits, it goes way far back then that, for suits originated with the British, if my memory serves me correctly.

I also suggest paying the Mother Land a visit. Not only I enjoyed myself but I learned more about my people's roots. For you, I know it would be a history lesson and perhaps something to tell the family and friends.

Share this post


Link to post

Notice how the shading in the picture goes from blue on the left to a warm yellow-gold on the right.

One could make the argument that those people with a blue background have a colder relationship with God, or else are lacking light; whereas those in the gold have stepped out into the warm sunlight of God's favor. In this way, they don't have to say that they outright disapprove of the more "worldly" dress code, they can just hint that God disapproves of it.

WT engages in a lot of subliminal messaging. It is very sinister.

Share this post


Link to post
On 10/1/2018 at 7:57 PM, Space Merchant said:

This also goes for Evangelism and or anything pertaining to the missionary preaching of the Messianic Age and Good News Gospel, appropriate attire is necessary for even to those you preach the gospel to will also be viewing you and your attire, for with God, cleanliness and to be proper is a must.

What did John the Baptist wear when telling folks to repent while he was in the desert? 

On 10/1/2018 at 7:57 PM, Space Merchant said:

As for as I am concern, there are others who are vocal about this, as well as us in the Unitarian (P.E.o.J.B) who also view this too, as with the women of Christ an their following, who take issue with tight clothing also, thus viewing it as immodest.

Oh, so lemming mentality is just fine with you? The Hare Krishna shave their heads like monks do, is that the same then? Should you be shaving your head because these guys do? 

 

On 10/1/2018 at 7:57 PM, Space Merchant said:

For he need not think twice to throw out merchants who make his Father's Temple a house of commerce, something of which even churches do today to which they teach and believe there is no issue.

Are you equating clothing and money extortion in God's house? I'm pretty sure I didn't read that part about Jesus making a whip to whip those in tight pants or who wore a beard......err wait, didn't Jesus wear a beard? 

 

On 10/1/2018 at 7:57 PM, Space Merchant said:

That being said, the common attire by those in religious institutions is a modest dress and for men, a suit that is of decent size and fits him comfortably, for if someone is a member of the church, they most adhere to the modesty even in terms of dress code.

Tell that to the beggars Jesus visited and ate with and healed. 

Share this post


Link to post

Yes, clothing as we know it now is designed by humans not by God. So it is the traditions of men.

That includes suits and ties.

The tie is one of the most pathetic pieces of clothing ever invented. A dangerous item that has caused many accidents in workplaces. 

God does not require men to wear it. A pair of trousers and a shirt is all that is needed in warmer weather. Yes shoes and socks too.

As for ladies, why not trousers ? Especially for mums that have to handle young children, which may involve a lot of bending, kneeling and awkward movement. Trousers would be far more modest than many things ladies wear to meetings. 

The stupid idea that trousers are 'mens' clothing is just plain crazy. Trousers designed and made for ladies are of course ladies clothing. 

It's easy to see that it is all about 'lording it over the congregation'. Dictatorship by 8 men. Certainly not from God.  

 

Share this post


Link to post

Mobsters wear suits and ties, Bernie Madoff committed crimes while wearing suits and ties, politicians wear suits and ties, other religious folk wear suits and ties as part of their worship.  You don't need a special uniform to worship God. God is more concerned that a person is worshiping Him, not soley how they are dressed.

Share this post


Link to post
On 10/5/2018 at 6:01 PM, JOHN BUTLER said:

JW Dress Rules is the topic, not, being in a concentration camp. 

Perhaps TTH connecting concentration camp's dress fashion, the very modest one, as dress without any sexual elements and call for fantasy, with this topic?? :)))))   

Share this post


Link to post
On 1/21/2019 at 9:37 PM, JOHN BUTLER said:

The tie is one of the most pathetic pieces of clothing ever invented.

They said how here in Croatia is origin of tie (kravata - Croata, Cravate - in English, from French word Cravates for Croatian people )  typical scarves worn by Croatian cavalrymen,  an accessory which became the ubiquitous necktie of today...

Share this post


Link to post

@JOHN BUTLER suit and ties are made by people so I agree with you here, but how does that equal to tradition of men? Surely if clothing was made with the intent of worshipping a false God or created for some nafurous means, but common stuff isnt Tradition of men as you say.

But if a suit and tie is that bad, why are you wearing a suit and tie, let alone clothing if you say it is tradition of man?

I wear plain shirts and pants on casual days, a hoodie or a jacket if it's cold. Dress shirt/suit and bowtie for going to hall. Red shirt and khakis for my job. Sweatshirt and pants for exercising. These things doesn't mean I am doing things that is tradition of man, it just means I am cold or just covering my body.

Besides that, there is a line between modesty and immodesty, not just conduct, but apperance. I don't know how things were for you as a teenager, but I can tell you things that will blow your mind of what teens my age dress and do, so there is always a good and bad to something. 

Share this post


Link to post
On 1/22/2019 at 2:52 PM, Matthew9969 said:

Mobsters wear suits and ties, Bernie Madoff committed crimes while wearing suits and ties, politicians wear suits and ties, other religious folk wear suits and ties as part of their worship.  You don't need a special uniform to worship God. God is more concerned that a person is worshiping Him, not soley how they are dressed.

My English Teacher wears a suit and tie. You look at him funny and next thing you know you get an "F" on your paper and he will then proceed to nicely discredit you in public or in private,  even when parents speak with teachers. It's too late in the to change so I'm bracing the storm.

 

Share this post


Link to post
5 hours ago, Equivocation said:

suit and ties are made by people so I agree with you here, but how does that equal to tradition of men?

Hi! 

I see this subject this way. If somebody made decision, rule (that in KH meeting) how particular clothes and details in clothes are only acceptable (but some other fashion is even forbidden or just "not good")  for people who coming in KH, then after some time, this rule come to be tradition. And in general, with time passing, members will not consider this as just rule but as tradition, folkloric issue, for particular people in particular social group, JW community in this case.   

Share this post


Link to post

My brothers and sisters and I all wear jeans, khaki's, etc and t-shirts/nice shirts during our worship. I do so because while I am worshipping/singing along with the music I can raise my hands to God in worship. Can't do that in a suit and tie which pretty much constricts your movement making you stiff. 

Share this post


Link to post

@Equivocation  Quote " But if a suit and tie is that bad, why are you wearing a suit and tie, let alone clothing if you say it is tradition of man? " 

When i was in the JW Org, I obeyed the rules. Rules of men. I didn't want to deliberately cause trouble or to embarrass my family by being moaned at by the police, sorry I mean Elders, of the congregation. 

We had an Elder in the congregation, a big man, that really suffered with the heat causing him problems. He never wore a jacket or tie in the hall, BUT he still had to wear a suit and tie when he went up on the platform. They had to put a big electric fan on the edge of the stage each time he was on there. So tell me where is the love and consideration for that Elder ?

And yes they didn't question him for not wearing a jacket and tie in the hall, but I did get 'spoken to' once for not wearing a tie, hence in future I conformed. 

In my opinion it becomes 'traditions of men' when it is not scriptural but is still enforced by 'those in power', the GB down to the Elders. 

And yes certain types of clothing are traditions of men if dictated by humans.

This point has been proven by women in certain secular jobs having to wear high heeled shoes all day, when they would prefer to wear flat comfortable shoes. I believe this has got to the point of actual court cases. I think that proves the tradition of MEN in the true sense. 

And the suit and tie was supposed to represent decency, honesty, trustworthiness, etc. But in many cases it was just used to trick people into thinking that way. However, it has been carried forward to this day, as a tradition of men. 

So is it still necessary ? 

Share this post


Link to post

@JOHN BUTLER You didn't even answer the question. You said clothing is tradition of men and now you say certain clothing, so which is it or are you just throwing darts to a board, pops?

A red hat is meaningless and a random guy uses it to cover his head, perhaps to cover signs of balding vs. A guy who uses a red hat that reads messages of racism to trigger aggressive response by people at a random bagel shop vs. A guy who sports a red hat to support a political view.

All 3 men, 2 of them having a piece of clothing the represents or stands for something negative and or decisive.

So Tradition of Men is something totally different compared to what you said before.

I suggest thinking it over a glass of water.

Share this post


Link to post
On 1/25/2019 at 8:40 AM, Matthew9969 said:

My brothers and sisters and I all wear jeans, khaki's, etc and t-shirts/nice shirts during our worship. I do so because while I am worshipping/singing along with the music I can raise my hands to God in worship. Can't do that in a suit and tie which pretty much constricts your movement making you stiff. 

Usually depends on the person and their build. What matters is if the clothing isn't out of this world immodest.

People now a days dress up as if they are going to a Crème de la Crème night club when they go to worship God.

My late uncle use to say, if it ain't right with God it shouldn't be right with you.

 

Other than that I can move in a suit just fine.

Share this post


Link to post
On 1/25/2019 at 4:07 AM, Srecko Sostar said:

Hi! 

I see this subject this way. If somebody made decision, rule (that in KH meeting) how particular clothes and details in clothes are only acceptable (but some other fashion is even forbidden or just "not good")  for people who coming in KH, then after some time, this rule come to be tradition. And in general, with time passing, members will not consider this as just rule but as tradition, folkloric issue, for particular people in particular social group, JW community in this case.   

So what is your say on mini skirts and dresses and suits that are as tight as a salsa jar cap to the point of tearing out of it like pop eye?

Modest or immodest?

Modesty is honesty, amigo. 

Share this post


Link to post
19 hours ago, Equivocation said:

Usually depends on the person and their build. What matters is if the clothing isn't out of this world immodest.

People now a days dress up as if they are going to a Crème de la Crème night club when they go to worship God.

My late uncle use to say, if it ain't right with God it shouldn't be right with you.

 

Other than that I can move in a suit just fine.

Of course jw men can move just fine while singing along to worship music, they just stand there.

Share this post


Link to post
On 1/29/2019 at 1:21 AM, Equivocation said:

Usually depends on the person and their build. What matters is if the clothing isn't out of this world immodest.

People now a days dress up as if they are going to a Crème de la Crème night club when they go to worship God.

My late uncle use to say, if it ain't right with God it shouldn't be right with you.

 

Other than that I can move in a suit just fine.

Did you ever ask your uncle how he knew what 'was right' with God ? 

Because at JW meetings it isn't God's opinion that is counted, it's the Elders opinions. 

One thing I did always notice was at assemblies, the young ladies / young sisters, well most of them, dressed in a way 'so as to be attractive to men'. Yes a lot of them looked stunning, but probably not modest. However one big reason for those young ladies / young sisters looking that way was the 'need' to find a 'marriage mate' within the JW Org. They found such ones at assemblies. 

It always looked so obviously competitive, and there seemed to be a push by parents to marry off their children. 

Share this post


Link to post
On 1/30/2019 at 5:19 AM, JOHN BUTLER said:

Did you ever ask your uncle how he knew what 'was right' with God ? 

Because at JW meetings it isn't God's opinion that is counted, it's the Elders opinions. 

One thing I did always notice was at assemblies, the young ladies / young sisters, well most of them, dressed in a way 'so as to be attractive to men'. Yes a lot of them looked stunning, but probably not modest. However one big reason for those young ladies / young sisters looking that way was the 'need' to find a 'marriage mate' within the JW Org. They found such ones at assemblies. 

It always looked so obviously competitive, and there seemed to be a push by parents to marry off their children. 

He knew what was right with God because as he was growing up be read the Bible and applied its teachings. People saw him as a hermit of some sort, but in reality he was the coolest guy I know before his death.

The thing you forget about God is that one thing that can be pulled from his likeness is cleanliness. This also goes for being clean and being modest in attire.

And what's your point on this? You didn't even describe the scenario as modest for there is no issue with that. Immodest dressing would be if someone goes to to the hall or assembly in clothing that is revealing, tight, or to the point of nuditiy. And modesty isn't not just with us, it goes for schools, businesses and other places that uphold this too. There are people whom we sometimes preach to at times will not speak or discuss with you if something's up, especially to us in the Latino community. 

There's no need to rush for marriage. No one forced marriage for anyone, if anything there are parents out there that rush some folks because they want grandchildren, others for different reasons. In my case I am far from marriage but my dad always tells me 18 is the age one can get married if they want to. My dad got married at 22, my mom was 19 going in 20. My uncle married at 34-35.

How is seeking a marriage mate competitive?I didnt know there was a Ring Now: Marriage Edition going on, I never seen that in the channel line ups

All that aside you never made your case of clothing being a tradition of men. This point you make was out of the blue and you never gave answer to that.

I find it funny you are now comparing UK folks to everyone else. Pops, you don't know the Latino Community so stay in the lane you are driving in, remember what you said last time - you don't assume things, and now going against your word tells people something about you, papa bear.

Share this post


Link to post
1 hour ago, Equivocation said:

He knew what was right with God because as he was growing up be read the Bible and applied its teachings. People saw him as a hermit of some sort, but in reality he was the coolest guy I know before his death.

The thing you forget about God is that one thing that can be pulled from his likeness is cleanliness. This also goes for being clean and being modest in attire.

And what's your point on this? You didn't even describe the scenario as modest for there is no issue with that. Immodest dressing would be if someone goes to to the hall or assembly in clothing that is revealing, tight, or to the point of nuditiy. And modesty isn't not just with us, it goes for schools, businesses and other places that uphold this too. There are people whom we sometimes preach to at times will not speak or discuss with you if something's up, especially to us in the Latino community. 

There's no need to rush for marriage. No one forced marriage for anyone, if anything there are parents out there that rush some folks because they want grandchildren, others for different reasons. In my case I am far from marriage but my dad always tells me 18 is the age one can get married if they want to. My dad got married at 22, my mom was 19 going in 20. My uncle married at 34-35.

How is seeking a marriage mate competitive?I didnt know there was a Ring Now: Marriage Edition going on, I never seen that in the channel line ups

All that aside you never made your case of clothing being a tradition of men. This point you make was out of the blue and you never gave answer to that.

I find it funny you are now comparing UK folks to everyone else. Pops, you don't know the Latino Community so stay in the lane you are driving in, remember what you said last time - you don't assume things, and now going against your word tells people something about you, papa bear.

OK Kid. Keep burbling. I like a good laugh. 

Share this post


Link to post
On 2/1/2019 at 11:54 AM, JOHN BUTLER said:

OK Kid. Keep burbling. I like a good laugh. 

Loss of words? My uncle isn't someone to be laughed at. Everything I said is also fact. You drive your head too far deep in the sand to not realize not everyone is like you or had the life that you had. Are you this ignorance of others outside the United Kingdom where you live? You must be the life of the party, Johnny 5.

Share this post


Link to post
2 hours ago, Equivocation said:

Loss of words? My uncle isn't someone to be laughed at. Everything I said is also fact. You drive your head too far deep in the sand to not realize not everyone is like you or had the life that you had. Are you this ignorance of others outside the United Kingdom where you live? You must be the life of the party, Johnny 5.

Go back to pretending that you live in the 'hood' with all the coke dealers and gun runners. If that is your dream world so be it. 

If you came from a rough tough background you wouldn't keep using childish names. The bro in de hood would all laugh at you man. 

You ain't no big deal ya dig. 

Share this post


Link to post
22 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

Go back to pretending that you live in the 'hood' with all the coke dealers and gun runners. If that is your dream world so be it. 

If you came from a rough tough background you wouldn't keep using childish names. The bro in de hood would all laugh at you man. 

You ain't no big deal ya dig. 

What are you talking about? I live in the borough, small quiet town. When we go to preach we go to another town and or city, the people at times who debate or confront are not even from the hood. What gave you the impression I live in the hood lol?

My background wasn't rough or tough, my uncle on the other hand lived in his country, he never was in the United States. My uncle was murdered when I was 8 and reasons for it it was because of jealous unknown persons that hated him. He was a very good man and had morals and didn't care what others thought of him and what I can say his head was more right than yours because he wasn't the type to drop to your level.

And nothing of that sort is my dream, remember what you said before and now look at you, Johnny. My only goal is to teach people about God and I haven't been in the "hood" as you claim, my other goal that is after keeping God's Kingdom first is to be there for friends and family. But that's lowkey stereotyping and near the line of racism. Not all of us Hispanic Americans are from the hood, as you claim. The Latino Community is everywhere, Johnny, even in our own countries. 

The irony you know nothing of the sort and act like you are, so don't pretend, Johnny 5 - you think I can't see that? But what you did here is messed up and it shows who you are and you are a liar because of what you said originally and here we are.

Laugh at me? Even if I did go there or people at school are from there, they don't pay me any mind like that and if they did, it's usually small talk, youd be surprised of people wanting to change their lives and some who have, those who are from the hood. If they have to laugh at someone it will be you, not only by glancing at you, your picture, but how you are trying to "hood talk" youd be on WS, and possibly a meme. They also have a name for people like you.

Gotta love how you attempt to speak like someone who's from there. May I suggest you get your starter's kit on Ebay or Amazon and give it a go? No? I thought so.

For a grown man like you, that's lowkey silly, coming from you.

Childish names? Buddy, Johnny 5 is a wonderful 90s movie. My cousins were 90s kids. Johnny 5 pretends to be human in the movie, and like you are doing here now, Johnny, you are pretending to be hood, when clearly you are not.

And still you can't answer what has been addressed to you and skip to nonsense. Surely you can be more serious than that.

Share this post


Link to post
1 hour ago, Equivocation said:

What are you talking about? I live in the borough, small quiet town. When we go to preach we go to another town and or city, the people at times who debate or confront are not even from the hood. What gave you the impression I live in the hood lol?

My background wasn't rough or tough, my uncle on the other hand lived in his country, he never was in the United States. My uncle was murdered when I was 8 and reasons for it it was because of jealous unknown persons that hated him. He was a very good man and had morals and didn't care what others thought of him and what I can say his head was more right than yours because he wasn't the type to drop to your level.

And nothing of that sort is my dream, remember what you said before and now look at you, Johnny. My only goal is to teach people about God and I haven't been in the "hood" as you claim, my other goal that is after keeping God's Kingdom first is to be there for friends and family. But that's lowkey stereotyping and near the line of racism. Not all of us Hispanic Americans are from the hood, as you claim. The Latino Community is everywhere, Johnny, even in our own countries. 

The irony you know nothing of the sort and act like you are, so don't pretend, Johnny 5 - you think I can't see that? But what you did here is messed up and it shows who you are and you are a liar because of what you said originally and here we are.

Laugh at me? Even if I did go there or people at school are from there, they don't pay me any mind like that and if they did, it's usually small talk, youd be surprised of people wanting to change their lives and some who have, those who are from the hood. If they have to laugh at someone it will be you, not only by glancing at you, your picture, but how you are trying to "hood talk" youd be on WS, and possibly a meme. They also have a name for people like you.

Gotta love how you attempt to speak like someone who's from there. May I suggest you get your starter's kit on Ebay or Amazon and give it a go? No? I thought so.

For a grown man like you, that's lowkey silly, coming from you.

Childish names? Buddy, Johnny 5 is a wonderful 90s movie. My cousins were 90s kids. Johnny 5 pretends to be human in the movie, and like you are doing here now, Johnny, you are pretending to be hood, when clearly you are not.

And still you can't answer what has been addressed to you and skip to nonsense. Surely you can be more serious than that.

I think I remember you saying things like 'people wanted to kill you' etc.  That's living amongst normal people is it ? 

And it's so funny when peeps tell me what i know and what I don't know.

I just wiped out two paragraphs because i don't really need to explain myself to a boy. And I've noticed looking back that you use racism in your comments a bit, and that is not cool. 

Share this post


Link to post
3 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

I think I remember you saying things like 'people wanted to kill you' etc.  That's living amongst normal people is it ? 

And it's so funny when peeps tell me what i know and what I don't know.

I just wiped out two paragraphs because i don't really need to explain myself to a boy. And I've noticed looking back that you use racism in your comments a bit, and that is not cool. 

Yes I did say that. But that doesn't mean that guy is from the, to quote you, "The Hood". And I can see here with that little remark of yours you assume people from there are killers, a typical sign here that you take the misconceptions seriously even though its false lol. No one from "The Hood" who speak about Jehovah God to be OK with something that isn't from the Bible, reasons why this man easily gets frustrated. He was wearing shorts with a white polo shirt with short sleeves and sandals, not to mention his Yankees hat, tell me, that's a normal get up for someone from the "Hood"? Not likely. But I guess to you a guy in socks and sandals is a major threat. If you wanna know, this guy is like this to everyone and despite his threat towards me I was calm. 

You sure about that? Because of what the guy said doesn't mean he's from the hood. People in the US threaten others out of small things even road rage, doesn't mean that they are from the hood and you assuming such shows you don't have a clue, quite the foreshadowing of what was said in another thread. 

I've never used any sort of racism in any of my comments anywhere, nor did I attempt to speak the way you did just now to anyone about anything. You yourself accused someone of being inferior because of their skin color. 

Can you show the class where I used racism in my comments? I want you to link it because all I see is a man who was exposed and skip to nonsense to cover himself.

But was said before still stands before you started with the personal attacks.

What is modest and immodest to you and this tradition of men you talking about you haven't elaborated on that.

Share this post


Link to post
2 hours ago, Outta Here said:

Rules? What Rules? These Rules?Mark.jpg

Some people just like to pretend rules from the Bible doesn't exist.

Reasons why when it comes to modesty vs. imodesty you can see it in people most of the time. I see it everyday at school, even when family friends and I go out we see it.

What some people don't realize is that in today's world immodesty is like royalty.

One thing Johnny 5 brought up is attractiveness. Some people expose themselves to the point where anything or something on them is nearly visible.

Others in this predicament sometimes give in. I can name one example of a guy at school, he is senior now, who takes things on another level. He is a prime example of how things in this system can push people off the deep end.

You tell people but they'll think you are a not that bright for following the rules, especially when it comes to grooming and clothing. 

Share this post


Link to post

To quote  " A guy who uses a red hat that reads messages of racism to trigger aggressive response by people at a random bagel shop "

" But that's lowkey stereotyping and near the line of racism "

Another quote. " I've never used any sort of racism in any of my comments anywhere, "

You don't like mentioning racism, um looks different to me. 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
13 minutes ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

To quote  " A guy who uses a red hat that reads messages of racism to trigger aggressive response by people at a random bagel shop "

" But that's lowkey stereotyping and near the line of racism "

 

Lol is that the best you can do? How am I racist because of a legitimate story that took place months ago?

    Hello guest!

This still doesn't hide the fact of you speaking the way you did and assume people in that pot are all from the hood. And your hood talk is indeed stereotyping and near the line of racism and YOU were the one who made that comment.

Again, can you show me a legitimate comment of mine that shows any type of racism or pretending that contains racism? I can easily bring up you commenting on someone who is inferior because of their skin color.  Surely you can't "Hood Talk" your way out of this one.

The fact you didn't link my name shows you show harm to yourself, Johnny 5.

And I know that this point about this thread you have no answer for modesty vs immodesty when it comes to clothing. 

Share this post


Link to post
13 hours ago, Equivocation said:

Lol is that the best you can do? How am I racist because of a legitimate story that took place months ago?

    Hello guest!

This still doesn't hide the fact of you speaking the way you did and assume people in that pot are all from the hood. And your hood talk is indeed stereotyping and near the line of racism and YOU were the one who made that comment.

Again, can you show me a legitimate comment of mine that shows any type of racism or pretending that contains racism? I can easily bring up you commenting on someone who is inferior because of their skin color.  Surely you can't "Hood Talk" your way out of this one.

The fact you didn't link my name shows you show harm to yourself, Johnny 5.

And I know that this point about this thread you have no answer for modesty vs immodesty when it comes to clothing. 

So bring up a comment where I said a person is inferior because of their skin colour. But make sure it is those EXACT WORDS because you are being slanderous if you are accusing me of racism. 

I note you were careful last time saying ' near the line of racism ' But if you are telling me that i said a man of colour was inferior then I want your proof. When I have your proof i will go back and see if I can find the comment myself. 

But remember i want whole sentences, not just a misquote form the middle of a sentence like the GB have a habit of doing. 

If you cannot prove your accusation I will ask Admin to get an apology from you. Please do not bring this forum into disrepute just because you are not happy. I have never seen any racism on here and I do not wish to see any either. 

All humans are equal. We are all sinners and will answer to God through Christ. 

And please note, I never said you are racist, I said 

" And I've noticed looking back that you use racism in your comments a bit, and that is not cool. "

I eagerly await your reply young man. 

Share this post


Link to post

@Shiwiii 

Quote

 

And what is the point you are trying to make with John the Baptist vs. today, Shiwii? And I am very well aware of what John the Baptist wore and in what position he is in, but for some they misuse what he says rather than worry about what he is wearing.

That being said, this remark of yours does not negate the targeted response in question.

Lemming mentality? As to where you draw this silliness? What you fail to see is all persons who are of their culture differ from each other. Also such persons like to be referred to as Buddhist Monks, the other, Shaolin Monk.

What you seem to miss here is that if you have met people as a preacher in other countries, they will view you carefully. They are most likely to respond to a preacher who is open for discussion and dressed in a modest fashion vs. a charismatic preacher who is dressed in a fashionable way with parts of him or her nearly exposed with clothing that isn’t appropriate.

If you went to preach in the country of my mother and my father as I had recently and wore tight clothing, you will not gain any sort of attention, and we there is a saying for immodest folk, therefore, when it comes to respect, you should appear as in such to earn a positive attention of others.

One thing is for certain, if Jesus walked among us today, surely he wouldn’t want someone walking about to speak gospel whereas his or her body is either exposed and or nearly showing out of their garments, in the faces of all persons, young and old.

No I am not. If you actually read my response clearly, you’d see the point I am trying to make regarding this secondary response. Unless you want to point out clearly s to what I am equating, by all means Shiwii, please do.

Well Shiwii, it is called reading the previous response and seeing as to where and why this response is made. It’s not difficult as you are making it out to be.

Again, and what does beggars have to do with my response to the other person in regard to what you have said?

Beggars? Unless you have found a way to speak to the dead or have built some time traveling device, perhaps I could – but let’s be realistic. My response was about the church and modesty, so this response of yours is fruitless at best.

As for the beggars, these folks followed Jesus, they took to his word and listened. These beggars also do not even think twice to twist Jesus word into some outlandish teaching, nor do they do something that is beyond the teachings.

 

 

@JOHN BUTLER

Poor choice of words. That, my ignorance friend, is race mocking.

Psalm 1:1 - Blessed is the man who walks not in the counsel of the wicked, nor stands in the way of sinners, nor sits in the seat of scoffers;

Proverbs 15:12 - A scoffer does not like to be reproved; he will not go to the wise.

That being said, what the boy says is indeed true, but you wouldn't not have known that because of the sheer ignorance of the situation that is and has taken place in the West.

In the examples below, it shows how people are and can become violent for the political theater going on in the US as we speak, the situation the boy mention was not him being, quote on quote "racist", in fact, this situation actually took place, therefore, your claim is at a level of idiocy and ignorance.

These are not PG, letting you know this now. Hate is what imperfect men embrace, and we can see it in full display in men, in women, and even children who haven't even hit their teens yet.

NOTE: Regarding the students, there were people, grown people, calling for the death and killing of these teenagers.

Lastly, surely you are better than that, Mr. Butler... The boy made no mention of the Hood, yet your comment shows one of your true colors on this platform for all to bear witness to, and it shows you are in total subjection to misconceptions which can easily be refuted by even that of a child. The next time you do such mockery to anyone, man, woman or child, an engrave portrait of what you have uttered will be in full display.

Other than that, what you professed before the closing of 2018, I saw no information, so it is a lack of care from you, or abandon.

As for his claim about one being inferior, he was referring to what you said of me (mind you, you didn't even mention me, so I had looked at my name), hence the response I had, strongly, given you. One does not feel inferior because of his or her color and or race, Mr. Butler, and at the time, that remark from you was out of the blue. And I find it very odd you are now doing this, in conjunction with making a mockery of those who live somewhere, playing into the misconceptions and the like. A shame on you and woe to you too.

@Equivocation We are living in an age where people do not want to here a word from the Bible. They paint God as something else. It is no surprise that people of this nature will react to what the Bible really says and those who will threaten you to attack you. Fear no man, but rather, be God fearing, always, and know what you are doing is what Jesus has been doing, for the message has been passed on, it is up to the individual to make that change.

That being said, I had run into folks who used the Bible to defend Polygamy, Pedophilia, Homosexuality, using weapons to murder (some want to kill atheists, be it man woman or child) and a list of other things, some believe only black people are of God and everyone is an Edomite or a child of Esau, but they are hypocrites who carry a Bible that was crafted by an Englishmen and fail to realize that God is impartial, and the list goes on.

During my time out, I had been preaching the Word and did so in the birthplaces of my family, and when I came back, I had to deal with those who saw God as Molech, which is NOT okay with me, so the truth had been spoken.

Share this post


Link to post
On 2/24/2019 at 7:56 AM, Space Merchant said:

@Shiwiii 

 

@JOHN BUTLER

Poor choice of words. That, my ignorance friend, is race mocking.

Psalm 1:1 - Blessed is the man who walks not in the counsel of the wicked, nor stands in the way of sinners, nor sits in the seat of scoffers;

Proverbs 15:12 - A scoffer does not like to be reproved; he will not go to the wise.

That being said, what the boy says is indeed true, but you wouldn't not have known that because of the sheer ignorance of the situation that is and has taken place in the West.

In the examples below, it shows how people are and can become violent for the political theater going on in the US as we speak, the situation the boy mention was not him being, quote on quote "racist", in fact, this situation actually took place, therefore, your claim is at a level of idiocy and ignorance.

These are not PG, letting you know this now. Hate is what imperfect men embrace, and we can see it in full display in men, in women, and even children who haven't even hit their teens yet.

NOTE: Regarding the students, there were people, grown people, calling for the death and killing of these teenagers.

Lastly, surely you are better than that, Mr. Butler... The boy made no mention of the Hood, yet your comment shows one of your true colors on this platform for all to bear witness to, and it shows you are in total subjection to misconceptions which can easily be refuted by even that of a child. The next time you do such mockery to anyone, man, woman or child, an engrave portrait of what you have uttered will be in full display.

Other than that, what you professed before the closing of 2018, I saw no information, so it is a lack of care from you, or abandon.

As for his claim about one being inferior, he was referring to what you said of me (mind you, you didn't even mention me, so I had looked at my name), hence the response I had, strongly, given you. One does not feel inferior because of his or her color and or race, Mr. Butler, and at the time, that remark from you was out of the blue. And I find it very odd you are now doing this, in conjunction with making a mockery of those who live somewhere, playing into the misconceptions and the like. A shame on you and woe to you too.

@Equivocation We are living in an age where people do not want to here a word from the Bible. They paint God as something else. It is no surprise that people of this nature will react to what the Bible really says and those who will threaten you to attack you. Fear no man, but rather, be God fearing, always, and know what you are doing is what Jesus has been doing, for the message has been passed on, it is up to the individual to make that change.

That being said, I had run into folks who used the Bible to defend Polygamy, Pedophilia, Homosexuality, using weapons to murder (some want to kill atheists, be it man woman or child) and a list of other things, some believe only black people are of God and everyone is an Edomite or a child of Esau, but they are hypocrites who carry a Bible that was crafted by an Englishmen and fail to realize that God is impartial, and the list goes on.

During my time out, I had been preaching the Word and did so in the birthplaces of my family, and when I came back, I had to deal with those who saw God as Molech, which is NOT okay with me, so the truth had been spoken.

You know that woman in the video they caught her ya know. She might be deported soon as we virtually speak.

Other than that Pops haven't said a word so far so he shut kept it radio silent. 

 

But is is crazy how a piece of clothing with a slogan that comes straight from a video game could drive people hot water crazy lol

Share this post


Link to post

@James Thomas Rook Jr. Although I do not fancy graphic shirts such as these, but aren't you a bit too old for such things? Also speaking about graphic shirts, sometimes an image or a word, on said shirt, can trigger someone and or a group of people, perhaps trigger either of the sexes or both. And we already know the situation with an example professed above.

 

@Equivocation The haste of such situation's escalation is indeed fast.

    • Hello guest!

That being said, you do realize how events such as these play out in the global mafia of things, right? Then again, I would save you the Truther Banter, I profess from time to time, for I had said such regarding the compact already.

 

Share this post


Link to post

I see that some people on here do not like the truth i speak about the JW Org and it seems that in order to try to have me removed they are pretending that I am racist. 

@admin  Can we put a stop to these accusations against me please. I am not racist but it's a well known thing that if enough people say that i am then it will start to be believed.

It is most unfortunate that some people cannot lose a discussion without some sort of reprisal. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
On 2/10/2019 at 2:05 PM, Equivocation said:

This still doesn't hide the fact of you speaking the way you did and assume people in that pot are all from the hood. And your hood talk is indeed stereotyping and near the line of racism

@Equivocation Please refrain from further instigation. If you want such a conversation please PM each other. Not on a public thread.

@JOHN BUTLER Please PM people back. You should know by now to start a new topic or hold your conversations on someone's wall rather than go so way off topic 

Share this post


Link to post

@JOHN BUTLER Just next time never use speech mockery, in this sense, Ebonics. The type of speech isn't the best to express and or explore, when in some situations, be it of a person of said community and or knows such ones of said community, rich or poor, can easily trigger, provoke strong, and often negative responses - this is not an just fact, it is absolute and certain lines can nearly be crossed. As for you @Equivocation, when it comes to linguistic mockery, especially the use of mock speech, in this case, the use of Ebonics, sometimes people do not know any better, in Mr. Butler's case, he believes misconceptions, so that alone shows. Other than that, assuming leads to conflict of such things, hence the outcome of the off-topic discussion. Unfortunately, things tend to go on like this when things get a bit too off-topic, ironically enough it began with "uncle".

 

That being said, picking up with what was addressed earlier on, pertaining to what you said, child, mini skirts and very tight clothing is immodest, plus in some cases people wear such to cause a scene, be it in the common church and or workplace, draw attention and to trigger, such wants see to increase their value or attractiveness, in this sense, the wrong way.

Since you are a teenager, some of us who are raised in the 90s can relate, there are, even in my days, young ones who dress up in such a way that is inappropriate, reasons why in some cases, schools had to regulate things, in some cases, enforce, and treated a ruling of a strict dress code. An example would be cross-dressing, and in some cases, for girls, shirts and or tees that are bra straps or exposed shoulders, very short low cut shorts and or jeans, anything that exposed the body way too much and so forth. Since race is being discussed here to some degree, sometimes due to the hair style it can trigger people, even a teacher. Regarding immodest clothing, such in this case would cause schools, those in authority, to react, as stated before regarding all things pretianing to teaching children, some teachers are not always there to teach and have something else in mind, such as these recent events regarding female teacher(s),

    Hello guest!
.

Now when it comes to Christians, we shouldn't be going on about the things of this world when it comes to dressing up, this goes for anyone, anywhere, for like us, they know the difference between modest and immodest, and would not go about their own understand of this sort vs. that of God. And someone brought up something regarding suits and ties being traditions of men, the answer is NO. A suit and tie is just clothing, it would only pretian to traditions of men if said suit and tie is sporting something that is very unpractical to Christians and or the church. But it seems the sense of style that derives from the world, actual works of men who tend to shift things from modest to over the top immodest, this has indeed become a problem.

To quote a Christian woman who spoke about this matter "We shouldn't be deliberately causing anyone to stumble. Would you wear a muscle shirt and tight jeans to church."

That being said, this modest vs. immodest stems not just from Christians, but to others as well, and even in public places. And it has gone to, in a sense, to the extreme, over sexualization of clothing as well, welcoming it to the public eye as if it is no issue to the people of the nation, which results in a Red vs. Blue situation whereas there are those for it and those against it.

But of course, their fruit becomes the problems of many. Th're shall beest people, those f'r 'r 'gainst. In the endeth t cometh thy burden at which hour t cometh to thy doth'r.

Share this post


Link to post
7 minutes ago, Space Merchant said:

 

@JOHN BUTLER Just next time never use speech mockery, in this sense, Ebonics. The type of speech isn't the best to express and or explore, when in some situations, be it of a person of said community and or knows such ones of said community, rich or poor, can easily trigger, provoke strong, and often negative responses - this is not an just fact, it is absolute and certain lines can nearly be crossed. As for you @Equivocation, when it comes to linguistic mockery, especially the use of mock speech, in this case, the use of Ebonics, sometimes people do not know any better, in Mr. Butler's case, he believes misconceptions, so that alone shows. Other than that, assuming leads to conflict of such things, hence the outcome of the off-topic discussion. Unfortunately, things tend to go on like this when things get a bit too off-topic, ironically enough it began with "uncle".

 

What about “post in their wall or PM them” was not clear?

Share this post


Link to post
On 3/1/2019 at 6:42 PM, Space Merchant said:

Although I do not fancy graphic shirts such as these, but aren't you a bit too old for such things? Also speaking about graphic shirts, sometimes an image or a word, on said shirt, can trigger someone and or a group of people, perhaps trigger either of the sexes or both. And we already know the situation with an example professed above

Whaaaaaaa

Share this post


Link to post
8 hours ago, Shiwiii said:

Whaaaaaaa

In layman's terms, certain pieces of clothing that is revealing and or professes a message can and will trigger someone, i.e. swastika attire triggers a reaction and or response, which can go from minor to violent in the slightest of escalation. And what was mentioned above is a red maga hat that sends people into a mental state of blood boiling rage, even the MSM gets into it sometimes, but you know what they say about the powers that be in all this of such nature and various things pushed out to the people. It is no wonder a good 20% of people in the US tends to stay away from such things.

That being said, even despite such, I was never a fan of graphic tees, I keep it plain, always, even during the island days.

Words can give off shots stronger than bullets, the same can be said of inappropriateness and immodesty, ammo of immorality.

Share this post


Link to post

@Space Merchant But that's the thing. It is becoming a norm in the world when people don't seem to give a bit if care. Nuditiy is seen as nothing in certain cities and even in those parts there are people younger than me who has to deal with these things, ending up being scarred for life and some would say. How I see it is that when people speak up on this, they are mocked and ridiculed, for instance, tight pants, and I know for you guys who lived through the 90s the style kinda came into the schools where boys would actually wear skinny girl jean pants and the style catches on, people embrace it and thinks is okay, but when someone speaks up, they think the people is out of his or her depth and now we have the cross dressing situation and people support this, others are foaming out the mouth mad about it.

In short we should be doing things in God's glory especially when it comes to clothing and decisions in that nature - 1 Corinthians 10:31 and Philippians 2:4. But not a whole lot of folks out there take things seriously when it comes to this.

It plays into sexual immorality also. Weak people who get caught up in the desire of the flesh don't realize they set themselves up, and people do this willingly mainly other teens my age at school. 

Share this post


Link to post
7 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

In layman's terms, certain pieces of clothing that is revealing and or professes a message can and will trigger someone, i.e. swastika attire triggers a reaction and or response, which can go from minor to violent in the slightest of escalation. And what was mentioned above is a red maga hat that sends people into a mental state of blood boiling rage, even the MSM gets into it sometimes, but you know what they say about the powers that be in all this of such nature and various things pushed out to the people. It is no wonder a good 20% of people in the US tends to stay away from such things.

That being said, even despite such, I was never a fan of graphic tees, I keep it plain, always, even during the island days.

Words can give off shots stronger than bullets, the same can be said of inappropriateness and immodesty, ammo of immorality.

Here we go again with technicalities. 

 

You're right sm, it might offend some. 

Share this post


Link to post
On 3/4/2019 at 9:18 AM, Shiwiii said:

Here we go again with technicalities. 

 

You're right sm, it might offend some. 

You truly get irked very easily. But truly I say to you, that is the truth. It gets even deeper than  that.

On 3/4/2019 at 9:44 AM, JOHN BUTLER said:

I'm thinking of buying a MEGA cap. It's the English version :) 

You might want to be careful because this whole Donald Trump thing has spilled over to the United Kingdom, and on the other side you have the TR supporters that would go off unhinged at anyone that could trigger them, example, London.

Likewise, even messages on a shirt and or hat would boil the blood of some random folk and it will cause he or she to react ins someway shape or form.

It cannot be helped sadly. As Shiwiii said, snowflake on the same level of Tomi Lauren, and then you have the shills, the far left and the far right and all that other nonsense.

@Equivocation Italian spider man memes? Clearly anything pertaining to it never becomes stale.

Share this post


Link to post
13 minutes ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

It's easier and more fun to decide to get into a Bar Fight, especially after a few drinks .... when you remember that your Company has an excellent dental plan !

MAGA !

Rook, it will be more than just a bar fight, it would be a street block brawl when maga supporters and opposers come out the woodwork as if there was free coffee being given out. I recall 3 teenaged girls were about to have a throw down with a grown guy who was easily offended by all 3 of them not just wearing the maga hat, but the fact those teens were mocking him. Sometimes the damage can be indirect.

But hey, that's political theater for you, with a side of back to back show time specials on a marathon.

That being said, that dental company has to be top of the line, teeth are durable, but not THAT durable.

12 minutes ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

If something you do "triggers" a rabid Snowflake it's better if your "heater" has at least 15 shots.

.. and shoot first at least twice, even if it's just into the floor ... it upsets THEIR aim.

Snowflakes are not much of a threat when it is a single soul, but give them time to slowly increase in numbers and they will become a threat. Such ones are not too far off from ANTIFA, or an adversary known as bamn who's head is yvette felarca.

If anything, you have Tiny to cover you.

 

Other than that, such things, words, even on dresses and other garments and accessories is enough to cause something in someone.

Share this post


Link to post
On 3/8/2019 at 6:58 PM, Space Merchant said:

But truly I say to you

are you trying to use biblical phrases to impress someone? Even the sayings of Jesus? 

 

Touche

 

Get behind me Space Merchant! you are a hindrance to me. 

Share this post


Link to post

@James Thomas Rook Jr. What?

That being said, Rook, in this day and age, they are putting young boys in dresses now and teachings things that is unheard of in the schools. Granted of what fuels the educational institutions, it is no surprise as to how such comes to fruition, and it is truly a problem that people will see as a normal thing. It is only a matter of time, as many saith, because this is the reality of things now. Sometimes, one has to take into account on what the people are teaching, even the teachers and professors in the schools, for young minds are like sponges, and they will take anything and everything into their minds.

Although schools have dress codes, for some, there was never something in place of what I speak of, granted with how open today's society is with something that is problematic. Next thing you know, perhaps a male teacher would come to class and teach the children in a dress of some sort.

Share this post


Link to post
On 3/12/2019 at 12:12 PM, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

 

Like Jesus did when he taught in the Synagogue?

Hahahhahaa!

Jesus teachings the truth of the Scriptures.

Aside from that,

My friend it is a reality. School and educational institutions are FAR TOO DIFFERENT now from your time. During my youth, although I am still typical a young man, I have only seen small instances of such, very subtle, however, this isn't the case with our young ones today. To the elderly, to the adults, to the children, such things spread.

    Hello guest!

Also it is a plague among our children, in this sense. I do not support, but rather, I am against teen vogue for what they are pushing to our children: 

    Hello guest!

Other examples:

Image result for transgender teacher dresses

On 3/12/2019 at 11:55 AM, Shiwiii said:

oh this is getting fun. 

Well Shiwiii, you are very late to the party because it is no surprise I am using common sayings that was common in the days of Jesus and the apostles.

Share this post


Link to post
15 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

Well Shiwiii, you are very late to the party because it is no surprise I am using common sayings that was common in the days of Jesus and the apostles.

Oh stop flattering yourself. 

Share this post


Link to post
1 hour ago, Outta Here said:

    Hello guest!

Be Strong Convention speaker

Wow are they lowering the standards as they are rapidly losing members ? 

Or is this normal attire for where ever this is ? 

Share this post


Link to post
1 minute ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

.... I was once called down from the platform, because I had a blue shirt, instead of a white shirt.

It looks like this Brother solved that problem.

This reminds me of an apocryphal story of a brother all nervous because he was to be working with the circuit overseer, and he wanted everything to be just so, something he never would have cared about otherwise.

So he pressed his suit, but got distracted.

”Brother, don’t you have a suit jacket other than this one?” said the CO later in service, glancing behind at the heavy black iron mark on the coat’s back. Maybe this brother did the same with his best white dress shirt.

Share this post


Link to post
On 4/24/2019 at 8:57 AM, JOHN BUTLER said:

Wow are they lowering the standards as they are rapidly losing members ? 

Or is this normal attire for where ever this is ? 

As of last time of which I had posted the number of adherents, they've went from 8.45 adherents to 8.58 million adherents. So slander about adherent numbers is of your own folly.

On 4/24/2019 at 4:15 PM, Outta Here said:

How patronising can you get?

At this point he may as well suggest people to where nothing but their undergarments, but a plot twist to this situation, this he may be against too because clothing suddenly makes one a villain of some sort.

Share this post


Link to post

“American studies show that Jehovah's Witnesses have the highest turnover of any religion,

    Hello guest!
 as supported by Watchtower figures presented in this section.”

Easily compensated for by the high participation rate of those who stick. After all, the members of a great many denominations may not actually leave, but how would you know if they did?

 

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
adherent
/ədˈhɪər(ə)nt/
noun
plural noun: adherents
  1. someone who supports a particular party, person, or set of ideas.

@Space Merchant I like your word 'adherents'. JW's do support their GB and it's JW Org. Unfortunately they do not serve God through Jesus Christ. 

Now these numbers you seem to love so much are made up of 3 year old children and upwards. Remember all they have to do is get mummy or daddy to put in a 'report slip' in their name, and they become a 'publisher'.  The amount of JW's is counted by the amount of publishers. A person can be a 'publisher' by putting in a report slip with as little as 30 minutes per month on it. 

So if you have a family of 7 people, that is dad, mum, and 5 children aged from 3 years old upward, you can get 7 report slips per month, even if the younger children are forced to do the 'ministry work' by the parents. So don't get so excited about numbers SM, because they mean nothing. 

As for the clothing comment, um, I think you are unwell SM and need a rest. 

Share this post


Link to post
6 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

“American studies show that Jehovah's Witnesses have the highest turnover of any religion,

    Hello guest!
 as supported by Watchtower figures presented in this section.”

Easily compensated for by the high participation rate of those who stick. After all, the members of a great many denominations may not actually leave, but how would you know if they did?

 

 

 

 

Um, Tom, what high participation rate ?  When a person can submit a 'Report slip' for 30 minutes per month. 

When 3 year olds can have 'Report slips' put in for them. 

When children are forced to go on the ministry and then leave the Org asap when they are of age. 

Don't be blinded by numbers Tom, just like SM.  

And it seems the increases are in countries of people with a lower education level. In higher educated countries, or countries where information is more freely available, people are leaving the JW Org. 

Temptation levels are the same earthwide, the devil doesn't just tempt people in higher educated countries. So maybe it's because people in higher educated countries or countries where info is more freely available do more research into the GB and it's Org and also ask more questions and get disturbing answers. 

Share this post


Link to post
6 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

@Space Merchant I like your word 'adherents'. JW's do support their GB and it's JW Org. Unfortunately they do not serve God through Jesus Christ. 

I'm going by religious statistic as I had before because you claim the latter was committing slander in their numbers. There is also many sources that even state the same thing, so those numbers are indeed true. If you lack spiritual wisdom, how are you so sure? Because last I was here before the whole Assange situation, you said you are seeking truth, at least be reasonable and honest.

Moreover, the word "adherents" was coined by said source:

The group reports a worldwide membership of approximately 8.58 million adherents involved in evangelism and an annual Memorial attendance of over 20 million.

I recall telling you in your response that the numbers are only going up whereas you said it was going down, which was false.

6 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

Now these numbers you seem to love so much are made up of 3 year old children and upwards.

There you go slandering again. Can you prove that the numbers were made up if one and several other sources says otherwise? The pews website was not made by children, nor was Wikipedia, nor was other Christian statistics websites.

6 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

Remember all they have to do is get mummy or daddy to put in a 'report slip' in their name, and they become a 'publisher'.

I am not talking about JWs bringing up the numbers, I am, and my sources re of those who actually count statistics in adherents/members numbers of all Christian denominations, if fact, all rebellious denominations.

Also it is called Demographics

Definition - statistical data relating to the population and particular groups within it.

6 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said: